December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

IPINFO: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: believer(a)telepath.com Subject: IPINFO: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:08:39 -0600 To: oldbat <bucsplace(a)cchat.com>, ignition-point(a)majordomo.pobox.com NOTICE TO LISTEES: If you are forwarding materials to the IP list that include URLs, *PLEASE* check them for accuracy before posting. Regarding: -------------------------- >>Subject: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed >>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ts/story.html?s=v/nm/19981107/ts/guns _3.html >> >> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton directed his government Saturday to >> find a way to close a legal loophole that allows speakers/journalists to >> express their ideas at public places with no questions asked. -------------------------- The above "story" is either a spoof of satire, or else an incorrect URL was given to accompany the article. If you access the link above you DO NOT find a story about free speech, but rather, the material below. If materials you send are not factual but are humorous or satirical in nature, please note that for the readers so we don't have a bunch of unfounded rumors floating around about new draconian measures that were actually only jokes to begin with. If there is a real story about Clinton's opposition to free speech, someone please send the correct URL. Here is the REAL story that accompanies the link above: Saturday November 7 12:46 PM ET Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Gun Law Closed WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton directed his government Saturday to find a way to close a legal loophole that allows dealers to sell guns at gun shows with no questions asked. In his weekly radio address, Clinton said a ``dangerous trend'' is emerging at gun shows because the Brady handgun control law permits some firearms to be sold without background checks at these shows. ``Some of these gun shows have become illegal arms bazaars for criminals and gun traffickers looking to buy and sell guns on a cash-and-carry, no-questions-asked basis,'' Clinton said. He directed Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and Attorney General Janet Reno to report back to him in 60 days with a plan to close the loophole and prohibit any gun sale without a background check. ``I believe this should be the law of the land: No background check, no gun, no exceptions,'' Clinton said. In a fact sheet, the White House said that every year about 5 million people attend an estimated 5,000 gun shows at convention centers, school gyms and on fairgrounds. The Brady law requires a five-day waiting period for gun purchasers in order for a background check. On Nov. 30, the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System is set to take effect to allow quicker checks and approve gun sales within minutes. In addition, on Nov. 30 the law will be strengthened in two ways: purchases of all firearms, not just handguns, will be subject to Brady background checks as will pawnshop redemptions, which are four times as likely to involve a prohibited purchase. Overall, the White House said, it is estimated that the number of background checks conducted nationally will increase from 4 million to between 10 and 12 million. Unregulated sales at gun shows were ``an open invitation to criminals,'' said Sarah Brady, who chairs Handgun Control Inc. The Brady law was named after her husband, James Brady, who was wounded in an attack on President Ronald Reagan in 1981. California and Maryland regulate ``flea market'' gun sales, said Brady. Florida voters passed a constitutional amendment Tuesday giving counties the power to require a waiting period and a background check for sales at gun shows and other public places. Copyright © 1998 Reuters Limited. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo(a)majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ****************************************************

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Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
by Albert P. Franco, II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:33 10/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>> Albert P. Franco, II wrote: I've been lurking on this thread for a while, and I am amazed by the level of utopist muck that is being spewed here by you. Without some government the Bad Guys will be the only ones with anything. It is only with the threat of losing their power that leaders do good. If they had no power which could be lost or taken they will always do what's best for them in the short term, which is usually to shit on the peons. Dictators (like Pinochet and Gates) do their dirty deeds because they feel no need to placate the masses. And the Bad Guys don't have everything already? Are they in any danger of losing their power? <<<< They don't have my car, my computers, or my house and other belongings. They not in as much danger as they should be, but they can be impeached and loose elections. >>>> This anarcho-capitalist spew is so much crap that the bullshit indicators are blaring at top volume. If the people can't control a constitutional government, known for having peacefully free elections for over two hundred years, then how the hell do think you can convince somebody that the people are going to be able to control warlords and monopolies. It's called, "You don't like it? Bang, Bang, you're dead!" And this differs from living in in a 1st world state, how? <<<< Where do you live? I know LA and some other big cities are pretty bad, but come on no one seriously believes that under "civilized" governments (1st World State) that this is ubiquitously the way it is. Under the anarcho-capilist system proposed it would be the ubiquitous state of affairs. >>>> Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your theory and give us at least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long lasting anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make sure it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so then come back and tell us. Is there some specific reason they need to be large scale or long lasting? By definition, anarcho-capitalism is constantly changing -- perhaps as much as between extreme individualism, to the current state of feudalism that has pervaded the world since the birth of agrarianism. <<<< Peace and prosperity require stability. If your system is ever changing then there will never be long term investments and thus no new technologies or products. Barbarism (anarcho-free market-etc. but never capitalism since capital investments are only made where a return can be guaranteed) will never serve as a basis for investment and development since there is no way to reasonably expect to be around long enough to get the pay back. If it isn't large scale it's just more bullshit on the already smoldering pile dumped on this list to date. Because it works for twelve people in an isolated environment in no way signifies that it will scale to level of a nation. Sorry, if ain't large scale and long lasting it ain't real. >>>> I agree with you that most utopianist ranting here carries a strong whiff of frustration and steam venting. To those anarcho-capitalists, I recommend the course of action I took 25 years ago. If you don't like the state you live in, don't patronize it. There are many save harbors in the world that better approach your ideals, and are more amenable to change, than the Union of Socialist Americans. "Educate, don't agitate". <<<< I left the good ol' USA too. I now live in a European country with a strong socialistic government and I actually find very little interference in my day to day life. In fact there seems to be a much higher awareness that each individual is responsible for his and her actions. At the very least there aren't as many lawyers claiming everyone is a victim of something or another (ie. too hot coffee, slippery floors, home owners that shot the poor intruder who didn't get a warning first, etc.) Ain't no where perfect, anarcho-whatever was done about 4000 years ago, I generally prefer to look forward... APF

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Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:23:34 -0500 > From: Michael Hohensee <mah248(a)nyu.edu> > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd) > > I'm still waiting for one of you guys to explain in detail how it works on a > > day to day basis... > > It works much the same as it does today, except that there isn't a > parasitic state wasting resources on feeding a useless band of > politicians, or pointing guns at people who don't obey its whims. Cop-out. "It's the same but different" is spin-doctor bullshit. Explain how the system works. Explain how the various systems operate, how the costs are calculated, and how they're paid. I want to see the same level of *specificity* that I and others have agreed to provide you in our examples. We want an answer not some glib off the shoulder quip. [I'm deleting the rest of this since it doesn't answer any questions that have been posed to the anarcho-whatever side] ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:24:23 +0000 > From: "Frank O'Dwyer" <fod(a)brd.ie> > Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd) > Jim Choate wrote: > > > You can make money from information provision by charging extra for > > > up-to-date news, or by charging so little that the cost from the > > > original provider is so low that it's not worth anyones time to > > > redistribute it, > > > > That's true now, why don't we see these effects... > > We do. News inherently has a 'sell-by' date. The most obvious example is > stock quotes where delayed quotes are provided for free whereas > real-time quotes are heavily charged for. The recipients of such > information care very much about latency, since it's possible to trade > on any differences that may exist. There's even some research on attacks > that simply delay packets in such networks. Ah, true but I was addressing the last sentence about the cost being so low nobody will charge for it.....sounds like the nuclear industry marketing speal of the 50's.... Sorry for the confusion, I guess I should have edited the first part out since it wasn't relevant. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
by Soren 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:38:55 +1000 > From: Reeza! <howree(a)cable.navy.mil> > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd) > >Like I said, at least your more honest than the rest of these wanna-be > >thieves. > > Your earlier reply on honesty was to Petro, I think you are confusing me > with him. Then the two of you are more honest than most of the anarcho-whatever folks I've come across. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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NPR is at it again...
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Some commie law professor broad :-) is talking about how there oughtta be a law against anonymous remailers, deja news, and various forms of "illegal" email... The ganglia twitch... Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Off Topic But Truly Beautiful (fwd )
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Clyde wrote: > > Long but fascinating... > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > 9 November 1998 > > DATELINE--Tallahassee, Fla. > Oranges that get you high > =========================== > > A Florida Biochemist designs a citrus tree with THC. > > In the summer of 1984, 10th-grader Irwin Nanofsky and a > friend were driving down the Apalachee Parkway on the way > home from baseball practice when they were pulled over by > a police officer for a minor traffic infraction. > > After Nanofsky produced his driver's license the police > officer asked permission to search the vehicle. In less > than two minutes, the officer found a homemade pipe > underneath the passenger's seat of the Ford Aerostar > belonging to the teenage driver's parents. The minivan > was seized, and the two youths were taken into custody on > suspicion of drug possession. > > Illegal possession of drug paraphernalia ranks second > only to open container violations on the crime blotter of > this Florida college town. And yet the routine arrest of > 16 year-old Nanofsky and the seizure of his family's > minivan would inspire one of the most controversial > drug-related scientific discoveries of the century. > > Meet Hugo Nanofsky, biochemist, Florida State University > tenured professor, and the parental authority who posted > bail for Irwin Nanofsky the night of July 8, 1984. The > elder Nanofsky wasn't pleased that his son had been > arrested for possession of drug paraphernalia, and he > became livid when Tallahassee police informed him that > the Aerostar minivan would be permanently remanded to > police custody. > > Over the course of the next three weeks, Nanofsky penned > dozens of irate letters to the local police chief, the > Tallahassee City Council, the State District Attorney > and, finally, even to area newspapers. But it was all to > no avail. > > Under advisement of the family lawyer, Irwin Nanofsky > pled guilty to possession of drug paraphernalia in order > to receive a suspended sentence and have his juvenile > court record sealed. But in doing so, the family minivan > became "an accessory to the crime." According to Florida > State law, it also became the property of the Tallahassee > Police Department Drug Task Force. In time, the adult > Nanofsky would learn that there was nothing he could do > legally to wrest the vehicle from the hands of the state. > > It was in the fall of 1984 that Biochem 101: How to > John Chapman Professor of design a > Biochemistry at Florida State Cannabis-equivalent > University, now driving to work citrus plant > behind the wheel of a used Pontiac > Bonneville, first set on a pet Step One: > project that he hoped would Biochemically > "dissolve irrational legislation isolate all the > with a solid dose of reason." required enzymes for > Nanofsky knew he would never get the production of > his family's car back, but he had THC. > plans to make sure that no one > else would be pulled through the Step Two: > gears of what he considers a Perform N-terminal > Kafka-esque drug enforcement sequencing on > bureaucracy. isolated enzymes, > design degenerate > "It's quite simple, really," PCR (polymerase > Nanofsky explains, "I wanted to chain reaction) > combine Citrus sinesis with Delta primers and amplify > 9-tetrahydrocannabinol." In the genes. > layman's terms, the respected > college professor proposed to grow Step Three: > oranges that would contain THC, Clone genes into an > the active ingredient in agrobacterial vector > marijuana. Fourteen years later, by introducing the > that project is complete, and desired piece of DNA > Nanofsky has succeeded where his into a plasmid containing > letter writing campaign of yore a transfer or T-DNA. > failed: he has the undivided The mixture is transformed > attention of the nation's top drug into Agrobacterium > enforcement agencies, political tumefaciens, a gram > figures, and media outlets. negative bacterium. > > The turning point in the Nanofsky Step Four: > saga came when the straight-laced Use the Agrobacterium > professor posted a message to tumefaciens to infect citrus > Internet newsgroups announcing plants after wounding. The > that he was offering transfer DNA will proceed > "cannabis-equivalent orange tree to host cells by a mechanism > seeds" at no cost via the U.S. similar to conjugation. > mail. Several weeks later, U.S. The DNA is randomly > Justice Department officials integrated into the > showed up at the mailing address host genome and will > used in the Internet announcement: be inherited. > a tiny office on the second floor > of the Dittmer Laboratory of > Chemistry building on the FSU campus. There they would wait > for another 40 minutes before Prof. Nanofsky finished > delivering a lecture to graduate students on his recent > research into the "cis-trans photoisomerization of olefins." > > "I knew it was only a matter of time before someone sent > me more than just a self-addressed stamped envelope," > Nanofsky quips, "but I was surprised to see Janet Reno's > special assistant at my door." After a series of closed > door discussions, Nanofsky agreed to cease distribution > of the THC-orange seeds until the legal status of the > possibly narcotic plant species is established. > > Much to the chagrin of authorities, the effort to > regulate Nanofsky's invention may be too little too late. > Several hundred packets containing 40 to 50 seeds each > have already been sent to those who've requested them, > and Nanofsky is not obliged to produce his mailing > records. Under current law, no crime has been committed > and it is unlikely that charges will be brought against > the fruit's inventor. > > Now it is federal authorities who must confront the > nation's unwieldy body of inconsistent drug laws. > According to a source at the Drug Enforcement Agency, it > may be months if not years before all the issues involved > are sorted out, leaving a gaping hole in U.S. drug policy > in the meantime. At the heart of the confusion is the > fact that THC now naturally occurs in a new species of > citrus fruit. > > As policy analysts and hemp advocates alike have been > quick to point out, the apparent legality (for now) of > Nanofsky's "pot orange" may render debates over the > legalization of marijuana moot. In fact, Florida's top > law enforcement officials admit that even if the > cultivation of Nanofsky's orange were to be outlawed, it > would be exceedingly difficult to identify the presence > of outlawed fruit among the state's largest agricultural > crop. > > Amidst all of the hubbub surrounding his father's > experiment, Irwin Nanofsky exudes calm indifference. Now > 30-years-old and a successful environmental photographer, > the younger Nanofsky can't understand what all of the > fuss is about. "My dad's a chemist. He makes polymers. I > doubt it ever crossed his mind that as a result of his > work tomorrow's kids will be able to get high off of half > an orange." > > Copyright 1994-98 San Francisco Bay Guardian.

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Off Topic But Truly Beautiful (fwd ) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:11:21 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka <mmotyka(a)lsil.com> > Subject: Off Topic But Truly Beautiful (fwd ) > > A Florida Biochemist designs a citrus tree with THC. Geesh, it's about time. I was wondering what the hell was taking these folks so long to map those mechanisms over into other organisms. Good for him! ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> > > Jim Choate writes: > > > > Ah, true but I was addressing the last sentence about the cost being so low > > nobody will charge for it.....sounds like the nuclear industry marketing > > speal of the 50's.... > > One barrier to such an enterprise is the domain name recognition, > people want wired, they type wired.com; what do they type if they want > the lower priced mirrors? Uno momento... http://www.altavista.com Ask AltaVistaTM a question. Example: "Where can I find information on bicycles?" Okay, let's give it a spin... Where can I find information on low priced mirrors? Results AltaVista found about 1,045,119 Web pages for you. 1. In this site you'll find low priced computer hardware including Pentium CPU 2. Pasadena Pins & Patches - Low Priced Jewelry - Die Struck Enamel 3. Pasadena Pins & Patches - Low Priced Jewelry - Photo-Etched 4. BUSINESS BOOK SALE! Excellent online, low-priced books here! 5. Low Priced Beanie Baby Link List Guide 6. Pentium Computer Systems and Low priced computer components 7. Inexpensive Software Cheap Software Low Priced Software 8. D&R Computer - Your source for great low priced home PCs and business systems. 9. THE UNDER $10 STOCK REPORT - Low Priced - High Yield Stocks 10. Spider Web Designs - low priced web-site design, development, hosting, and cre Hmmm, let me try that again. The "+" is a meta-search character, meaning required. Where can I find information on low priced +mirrors? 1. Miscellaneous Optical Suppliers. Polarizers. 2. The Bronze Face Mirror is a large (14 x 12 cm) mirror made out of clay. 3. The Eye Rings that have a diameter of 2cm are made from a special clay. 4. This Mermaid of Flower ? make up shelf (24 x 84cm) is made from wood. 5. This large (20 x 30 cm) Corset mirror is made from clay and wood. 6. The Large Space Ship Mirror is now made from wood (70 x 45 cm) 7. Gold-Leafed Oval Mirrors. Original designs, sophisticated finishes, and remarkable wholesale prices. [ DING DING DING DING! ] 8. These Wooden Lips are available in Red, Pink and Purple (76 x 53 cm). 9. The Little Devil is a large (14 x 16 cm) face mirror made out of clay. 10. Goderich Chrysler Plymouth Dodge Trucks, Goderich, Ontario, Canada, new and used vehicles Wow. Just like 4th-generation development languages put programmers out of business, these search engines will eliminate the need for any other form of advertising. ---guy

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