December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Report on UN conference on Internet and racism
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:27 PM 11/18/97 -0600, Mr. Geiger wrote: > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >In <3.0.16.19971118231927.0dc71f6e(a)pop.mindspring.com>, on 11/18/97 > at 11:34 PM, Mikhael Frieden <mikhaelf(a)mindspring.com> said: > >>At 06:53 PM 11/18/97 -0600, William H. Geiger III wrote: >>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>>I think that there is plenty of case law of extending constutional >>>protections to non-citizens. One that comes to mind were the rulings >>>against California inwhich the courts ruled the they were obligated to >>>provide schooling and social services to illegal aliens (a really fucked >>>rulling IMNSHO but if some good can come out of it no sense not making use >>>of it). > >> In a much more fundamental sense, if they were not given >>constitutional protections they really could be rounded up and bussed >>across the border. > >And this would be a BadThing(TM)?? > >- -- >- --------------------------------------------------------------- >William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii >Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 > >Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice >PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. >OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html >- --------------------------------------------------------------- > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.3a >Charset: cp850 >Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 > >iQCUAwUBNHJqx49Co1n+aLhhAQFRjgP3YOksOybgbGdafOpOgya5TPsrQkBckRAm >QhnUQWNpEbzAmUY1qPOEliaaGnZ/mftxG/Bfqmk2BGr8cQ1ofXapT1oOCpY0m5Zy >359mb3INHk6gkW/XyjGQuvYQ9c/XITTAZ8NnjspYjpT2/oPPKarZE0zoCZV3owQI >rFY0mGH29A== >=L7O7 >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > I am quite confused, I thought this was the cypherpunk list, i.e. national borders are just speed bumps, anarchy, all that stuff? Has there been some change in philosophy where this is now the nationalistic statist list? Put the gestapo at the borders to kill anyone trying to sneak in? Bus those that don't belong here home? Oooooh I now understand, you just hate, your hate for the government has now spilt over to where you hate citizen units that weren't born in this country. I think you, Mr. Geiger, would find a welcome if you submitted your resume to the Border Patrol, just think you could wear a nice spiffy uniform, and some jackboots, and carry a gun; don't drool when you get accepted. Just like all the psuedo "freedom fighters" in the militias that Tim is so hyped on, just different thugs that want to control other people's lifes to conform to their belief systems.

2 1

Flight 007 and our Civil Liberties
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The FBI has just completed a long press conference in which it reported its "no terrorist activity suspected" conclusions. Having watched most of it, and having seen the CIA animation shown at the press conference, I agree with their conclusions. (Cypherpunks arch-enemy James Kallstrom, Assistant Director of the FBI, nevertheless did a fine job, both in the investigation and in the reporting. Credit where credit is due.) However, now that the Flight 007 explosion has been ruled a non-terrorist event, will we get our freedoms back? The other big "terrorist event" of that summer of 1996 was the bomb in a crowd at the Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta. The "fits the profile" perp, Richard Jewell, was finally cleared of all charges. So, these were the two big events which stimulated the FAA, under higher orders, to require mandatory ID of all travelling passengers. And more multimillion dollar sniffers to be installed in airports. It seems that each such event ratchets down certain civil liberties, and even the later repudiation of terrorists and other Horsemen in these events never results in the liberties coming back.... --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

3 4

Re: export restictions and investments
by Rich Salz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>How do the US export restrictions affect investments into non-US crypto >companies? Is it legal for US private persons or companies to invest >money into companies developing strong crypto applications for example in >Europe? We got an official legal opinion, which was that wholly-owned subsidiaries of US entities are subject to US regulations in this area. >Since Sun bought the Russian Elvis+ company Are you really sure that they bought it all? That would go against what we had been told, and I have a great deal of respect for the legal/crypto expertise of "Barry an Jay" at the Washington, DC, law office of Hale & Dorr. /r$

6 5

Re: e$: Snakes of Medusa on Wall Street? (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 18:10:17 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> > Subject: Re: e$: Snakes of Medusa on Wall Street? (fwd) > > > Is your claim that there was a > > second Great Awakending or are you saying the traditional (if you will) > > dating is incorrect? > > I'm saying that I think you're confusing the Renaissance with the Great > Awakening. :-). Hardly, the Renaissance started toward the beginning of the 1400's (eg Galileo) and ended by the end of the 1500's (eg Newton). Did you know that Galileo died the same year that Newton was born? Some contemporary of Newton made the comment that the world could support no more than 1 such intellect at a time. > BTW, Emerson, Dickenson, Whitman, Thureau, etc., were part > of the same ideological outpouring which, in the theological arena, was the > Great Awakening. A lot can be said for the view that this was American > Romanticism, as Chopin, Byron, the Brontes, Austen, etc., were all > happening in roughly the same couple of generations. Later, like libertines > and enthusiasts throughout history, they became extremely repressive. We > eventually came to call them Victorians. (Sound familiar, you baby boomers?) After thinking about this I am certain that you are speaking of a movement other than the Great Awakening. I can't remember or find a convenient name for the religous/ethical awakening that occured prior to the Civil War. In thinking about this it occurs to me that immediately after each such occurance of a 'Great Awakening' there is a war of global (or at least what passes for the know world) proportions. Fortunately I can lay claim to being either the last of the baby boomers or the first of the gen-x'ers depending on whose definition you use. Personaly, I consider the labels spin-doctorisms intended to focus folks on the differences instead of the similarities. > > > that Vlad Dracul, the Impaler, was Transylvanian > > > > Actualy, to be accurate his name was Vlad Teppish. He was eventualy killed by > > his lord for carrying on excesses such as killing a woman because she let her > > husband walk around with a tattered coat. Dracul and Dracula are derived > > from dragon and imply a connection with the devil (which also derives its > > own existance from this lexical tree). > > Okay. I have to go back and look now, I woudldn't be surprised if you're > right. Anyway, there were two Transylanian nobelmen, father and son, and > one, the impaler was, among other things, called Vlad, son of Dracul, > which, I think, gets you Dracula, but I'm not sure. The Teppish part sounds > like it's more right, now that you mention it. Maybe we're looking at Vlad > Dracul the father, and Vlad Tepish, Dracula, (son of Dracul)? Oh, well, as > I said in my rant, the cost of error is bandwidth. :-). Someone here > probably has all the, um, gory details... Actualy 'dracul' is a word that means devil, it has the same roots as 'dragon'. Neither father or son used that in their name, it's what others called Vlad when they weren't calling him the Impaler. > > That doesn't change the fact that the opinion, anonymous or not, originated > > from a single source. > > I think I could argue for multiple simultaneous sources of the same opinion > pretty successfully. :-). Yes, but each of those were individuals. Opinions are tied to individuality and not geography or chronological ordering. What you actualy have is a group of individual opinions that once the observer is aware of the set then forms their own opinion of what the original opinions meant. > > While I can accept that testable facts can be isolated > > from source biases it escapes me how an opinion can be so isolated. > > I think this sums up Socrates' "Right Opinion" statement pretty well. Have > you read Plato, by chance? ;-). Folks later called this the Mind/Body > problem. How do we know what we think in here is what we see out there, > etc. Big problem in philosophy. Science solves it to most people's > understanding of it. Or mine, anyway. A better and more fundamental question: How do we know what we think is what we think? If you can't demonstrate this then you have no way of demonstrating there is even an 'out there' to see. The point that always seemed clear to me is that there is an implicit assumption with the whole mind/body question, in short; there is more to reality than what we experience. Therefore our experience of reality is fundamentaly different than reality. A further problem I see is that the implied assumption that the observer is seperate and isolated from that being observed. > I said later on in the rant that when we got to > science, that that was better. With science, we got as close to "truth" as > we're ever going to get, asymptotically closer, but not to truth itself. You are using a fundamentaly different science than I use. At no time does science assume there is a truth, only interactions that can be manipulated and are simple enough in their core interactions for us to understand. > Science gives a way to keep getting *closer*... Science is nothing more than a methodology for asking questions that fit particular and well defined forms. At the core of this is a basic assumption about nature, it is homogenous and isomorphic. > > Perhaps opinion & fact are unwittingly being confused. Opinions tell the > > observer about the holder of the opinion, not the subject the opinion is > > direct toward. > > Maybe, but remember my smart crack about hueristics. It's all we've got, in > any practical sense. Please be so kind why heuristics is the only thing we got? Seems to me that serendipity has raised its head more than once. As I understand heuristic algorithms (ie rule base) is that they pre-suppose a system for goal meeting and then go through a itterative process comparing the current position with the goal and then reducing that distance. > We can't just go around testing every opinion we hear, > more than once, anyway, :-), and, frankly, most of us just take other > people's word for things, especially if we respect their reputation. :-). Ah, but there is a rub here. Respect is an opinion. > Remember the story about Gauss, who, in the middle of some guy's > announcement that he'd discovered the normal distribution(?), said > hueristic: Gauss is usually right, so he must be right here, too. (An > appeal to authority, for you informal fallacy counters out there... :-).) Yeah, he did this several times. He nearly caused Bolya to quit mathematics. He made many such claims through his life, quite a few of them were never born out when his papers were examined after his death, though quite a few of them were as well. He also told his son to ask his wife to wait a moment to die while he finished his cyphers (calculations). > Well, actually, it's more about how to make replicable results, I'd say. > The "how to ask questions" might come from a theory (brought about by > observing reality with replicable results), and the creativity of the > questioner. If you don't know how to ask a question in a scientific manner you can't test it. Science itself doesn't say anything about the results directly other than they are homogenous and isomorphic, the observer does however when we examine the goals and reasons for the experiment in the first place. To observe nature requires a fundamentaly different methodolgy than 'commen sense' observation. Further, the realization that there are processes in nature that are fundamentaly un-repeatable is what forced the creation of statistics and the study of families of events. > > Science is a non-intuitive mechanism whereby we can regulate how > > we think about the world around us. > > And, my understanding is that at the core of that is the replicability of > experiment. And the predictivity of theory, of course. Replication of experiments comes from a base assumption in science (which unlike other axiomatic systems are open to refutation) that nature is fundamentaly homogenous and isomorphic, in other words the rules of nature are the same irrespective of geography. Should we find such a non-homogenous or non-isomorphism in nature then the fundamental reliance on science as we impliment it now would be shown wrong. The flip side to this is that if the universe turns out to be so arranged then we have in effect a non-relativistic frame of reference because we have now proven by exception that a given point or particle in the universe is truly unique and identifiable through some mechanism. > > What to do with the results is engineering. > > How to make the results *profitable* is what engineering is... ;-). No, that is business management. At no point in an engineering study is the issue of cost v price examined. Study Nikola Tesla to understand why your statement is fallacious. > > Never confuse popularity with influence. > > Well, since I don't know how to define one in terms of the other, I won't. > How's that? Popularity means that the issue is well known, influence is that people use it as a reason for their actions. > Still, I think the idea of opinion/influence/reputation/identity as linked > this way allows you to think about it better. > > Or at least it helped *me* think about it better, anyway. I agree that they are linked. I don't think that in the grand scheme of getting through life they are nearly as important as some would have us believe. I personaly am more interested in the fundamental question of whether the meme or paradigm works in the sense of providing me the return on my resource investment that I intended. I guess a simpler way to put it is that intellectual capital should not be avaluated by the same methodology we use to select books or movies to buy. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

2 1

AT&T Research "Crowds" -- Perl web anonymity proxy -- needs users
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It has a screwy "non-commercial use only, AT&T gets everything, you get nothing" license, but otherwise it looks interesting. John From: Avi Rubin <rubin(a)research.att.com> John, You may remember that at Crypto, I described the Crowds system to you. The system is now robust and up and running, and we have ported it to windows and unix platforms, so just about anyone should be able to use it. In fact, if there is such a thing as Perl for macintosh, I'm sure it would work on that platform too. We are very interested in getting more users of our system. As it is intended to provide privacy to web users, I thought that perhaps it is something that you and EFF would be interested in. Do you think you could put a link to the Crowds page on the EFF web site? Anything else you can do to help increase the usage would be great, because our system has the property that the more poeple use it, the more secure it is. Let me know if you have any questions. The Crowds page is: http://www.research.att.com/projects/crowds Thanks, Avi -- ********************************************************************* Aviel D. Rubin rubin(a)research.att.com Secure Systems Research Dept. Adjunct Professor at NYU AT&T Labs - Research 180 Park Avenue http://www.research.att.com/~rubin/ Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971 Voice: +1 973 360-8356 USA FAX: +1 973 360-8809 --> Check out http://www.clark.net/pub/mjr/websec/ for a new book on web security (The Web Security Sourcebook). *********************************************************************

4 5

Clinton Sells Arlington Burials
by Jonathan Wienke 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just heard on the news that Bill Clinton has been selling the right to be buried in Arlington National Cemetery (and possibly other military cemeteries) to campaign contributors. The story originally broke in the latest edition of Insight magazine yesterday. I think our Maximum Leader has stooped to a new level of sleaze, and deserves the revulsion of veterans everywhere. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNHMPxsJF0kXqpw3MEQLhzwCfQaz1SSmxZQiAIDimCxUMpBP3cF8AoMv2 WQwxTE9cSYfjt+HVE5LElVfI =Z7kj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

6 5

Free speech and jlist groups press conf on ratings (12/1)
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

** MEDIA ADVISORY ** Press Conference on Internet Ratings and Filtering WHO: Internet Free Expression Alliance (IFEA) WHAT: Press conference announcing the formation of IFEA, a coalition of organizations devoted to the continuation of the Internet as a forum for open expression and to identify new threats to free expression and First Amendment values on the Internet, whether legal or technological. WHEN: Monday, December 1, 12:30 p.m. WHERE: First Amendment Lounge National Press Club 14th & F Streets, N.W. Washington, DC WHY: To address the free speech issues raised by proposals to rate and filter "objectionable" content on the Internet. These proposals will be featured prominently at the White House-endorsed "Internet Online Summit" that opens on December 2. Representatives of the following IFEA member organizations will be available for comment: American Civil Liberties Union American Society of Newspaper Editors Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility Electronic Frontier Foundation Electronic Privacy Information Center Feminists for Free Expression Institute for Global Communications National Campaign for Freedom of Expression National Coalition Against Censorship Society of Professional Journalists CONTACT: David Sobel, EPIC: 202-544-9240 David Greene, NCFE: 202-393-2787 Emily Whitfield, ACLU: 212-549-2566 ..

1 0

Free Crime! (Take One...) / Re: Jim Bell's Sentencing Delayed
by bureau42 Anonymous Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Again Ray Arachelian wrote: > > Of course, it would be difficult to wash away all the FUD the government > > has disseminated about the Bell case by now. > Not so difficult. Remember that Bell stink-bombed those offices > allegedly. This could easily be seen as a teenage-mentality prank. > Play that part up, and the ludicrousness of everything else he was > "schemeing", and it makes the IRS look very very bad. They are pushing > the bad ass terrorist view of him. One way of looking at it is that a greater crime than he committed has already been 'paid for'. Whatever they add to his sentence will serve to increase the value of the 'gift certificate' Bell is buying for some lucky CypherPunk for Christmas. Since much of the authority of society revolves around guilt/shame, then a crime already paid for allows us to committ it without guilt. e.g. - Tim McVeigh I am tired of the whiners who cry out for the public hanging of every person deemed guilty by the justice system of 12 million jurors whipped into an emotional frenzy by the press and the government spin doctors, and who then bitch and moan when some servant of the Tao, such as Terrible Timmy, exercises the other side of the two-edged sword. Since McVeigh was a dead-duck anyway, it is a shame that he didn't just stand up in front of the jury with a history book and a calculator, do some figuring, and say, "By my calculations, not only is my crime already paid for, but 'we the people' still have plenty of 'credit' left on the account." ~~~ YouCanBetYourSweetAssIAmSending*This*PostAnonymouslyMonger

1 0

Fear & Gloating in Tennessee
by TruthMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From CNN(AP): Web posted at: 10:47 a.m. EST (1547 GMT) FRANKLIN, Tennessee (AP) -- Three books by photographers Jock Sturges and David Hamilton have received some critical praise, but a Tennessee county grand jury claims they may violate state obscenity laws. "The Age of Innocence" by Hamilton and "The Last Day of Summer" and "Radiant Identities" by Sturges were cited in the indictment against Barnes & Noble's Brentwood store. The obscenity charges focus on photographs of nude children in the books. I certainly hope that the prosecutor, judge and jury didn't look at those pictures. Probably turn them all into pedophiles, eh? Barnes & Noble was served with a summons to appear in Williamson County Criminal Court on December 1. Jerome Melson, an attorney for the Tennessee Press Association, said interpretations of what is obscene vary widely and he believes the grand jury is not looking to put anyone in jail. "They're probably just looking for a fine... to get the bookstore to change its manner," he said. "In other words, change your shelves." Oh! Voluntary/Mandatory under threat of imprisonment... Is it time for some new NewSpeak? Volundated -- Voluntary/Mandated Volundatory -- Voluntary/Mandatory Volutelse -- Voluntary/Or else! Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Sure it can. I just did it... TruthMonger

1 0

where to download pgp 5.0 for Linux?
by goddesshera＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

where to download pgp 5.0 for Linux? (for free) This message was automatically remailed. The sender is unknown, unlogged, and nonreplyable. Send complaints and blocking requests to <goddesshera(a)juno.com>.

1 0