December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Comparing Cryptographic Key Sizes
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter Trei <trei(a)process.com> writes: > Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes. > > 56 bit DES is probably roughly similar to 512 bit RSA in hardness to > > break. > > This is way off. We used ~457,000 MIPS years to search half of the > DES keyspace. Factoring a 512 bit modulus using the General Number > Field Sieve (GNFS) would take about 28,000 MIPS years (see Schneier > for the exact number - I don't have AC2 at hand) > > Lenstra has estimated that with 500,000 MIPS years, you should be > able to factor a 600 bit modulus using GNFS, if your workstations > had enough memory. Ah yes. Well I did read your post on coderpunks where you described the results of asking Lenstra and looking for ideas for what to break next, how hard 512 bits was etc. So... 28,000 MIPs years you say... but that neglects memory. Lenstra's conclusion was that even 512 bits couldn't be done, from your post. So by that measure it is harder (due to memory overhead) than DES even though theoretically taking less MIPS with 64 mb workstations. Also he was unsure about the availability of a large enough supercomputer to reduce the final matrix. So any suggestetions of how to summarise the "hardness" of a problem when it includes memory and cpu costs in as simple terms as possible. (Bearing in mind the reader in most cases hasn't grasped the difference between public key crypto and symmetric key, and is comparing 1024 bit keys to 56 bit keys and probably thinks that it is 1024/56 times harder.) > > About 10 years ago now Michael Wiener made a design for such a DES > > breaking machine. He estimated it would cost $10,000,000 to build a > > machine which would break a 56 bit DES encrypted message a few hours. > > His machine was scalable, pay more money, break the key faster, pay > > less take longer. The estimate was that could build one with enough > > DES key searching units to break it in a day for $1,000,000. That was > > 10 years ago. 10 years is a long time in the computer industry. > > Nowadays you build the machine more cheaply as chip technology has > > progressed, and computers are much faster per $. Estimates are around > > $100,000 to build the machine (neglecting hardware engineers > > consultancy fees). > > Go back and check the numbers - if you don't the journalists will. > (I don't have this paper to hand either :-( ) The Wiener paper is > much more recent (93?) , and the cost much lower (I think it was > about $1M for HW and $500K for development costs, for a 3.5 hour > machine). I think I have his paper as a postscript file, will look. But what do you think of the extrapolation to todays prices? $100k? (Ignoring consultancy fees). Thanks for the criticisms, more please on readability and understandability to neophytes! Adam -- Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

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AP Bot Results
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Dead Lucky" is an Assassination Politics Bot operated in response to the illegal and unconstitutional imprisonment of an American citizen in retaliation for exercising his right of free speech. It is the view of the operator's of this AP Bot that since it was the illegal and unconstitutional actions of Federal employees which was responsible for the implementation of this AP Bot and several others, that they should accordingly be subjected to imprisonment without bail for endangering the lives of others, including several Cypherpunks. Leading eCa$h candidates for dying at an opportune time to make some perennial loser "Dead Lucky" are: e$ 2,610.02 J. Kelley Arnold, United States Magistrate Judge, Union Station Courthouse, 1717 Pacific Avenue, Tacoma, Washington e$ 1,500.48 Jeffrey Gordon, Inspector with the Internal Revenue Service, Internal Security Division e$ 758.00 Inspector Cindy Nelson e$ 514.02 Cindy Brown Leading Cypherpunks: Graham John-Bullers TruthMonger Kent Crispin Leading Contributors/Bettors: The James Gang The Dalton Gang The Bell Gang William Geiger III

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Child Pornography [JPEG]
by TruthMailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This email contains child pornography encrypted with strong cryptography using the public key of a federal prisoner. It is being sent via a chain of anonymous remailers using strong cryptography to Senators, Congressmen, and Media. It is originating from a hacked account which was protected by weak encryption. What can you do about it? Nothing! You can pass legislation violating the constitutional rights of millions of citizens to safeguard their privacy and freedom of speech--laws against strong encryption--laws against using anonymity in communications--laws against citizens putting an anti-government cork in their butt-hole (Government Access to Korks--GAK) but you can't stop myself and others from routing around the damage you do to freedom and liberty. Perhaps you can use the seized computer of the federal prisoner to decrypt the enclosed child pornography but you will not be able to decrypt the stego hidden inside this message which reveals my identity. The reason for this is simple--the stego technology I am using leaves the original graphics file unchanged. It is a technology that law enforcement does not have access to. There is an inner circle within society and the government that does have access to the technology, however, and they are using it to fight government and corporate fascism. What can you do? Pass another law--pass a law which imprisons anyone who has a thought or technology which is inaccessible to the scrutiny of government agencies. "Everything not permitted is forbidden." What can you do? Take away all rights and freedoms--imprison everyone. The constitutional rights and freedoms of the citizens have been trashed under the pretext of protecting society from drugs and pornography and numerous other horsemen of the apocalypse, yet I can drive ten minutes in any direction and find drugs to purchase and I can find and send pornography freely over a variety of medium. For the record, I acquired the software used to encrypt the enclosed child pornography from a foreign source while the U.S. government is ineffectually stifling American business in order to prevent tools of freedom and privacy from being universally available. -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 MessageID: gygqk6Zjhr8ssJKvMxDdwQkYiBMJaW22 hQCMA/qHVDBboB2dAQQAlcc0zGN2wXUG4twV4M1TXkrMmob/fYP4k4tpIv7KEJQ8 2vA/iBXDPxcfURdKp750bnNVFN0yUUUoYk7o6vnrwDFYWbe3zWE7sePbaY+L4f/A E4yCXGXwal9GN61ayH2mfQds8Jv328u7zLX8Dxeu5vs8ALtjw3GOnewwuHPr/Pul Pa0Y0I5Di3SGQGmvBo27nJZV2ev/ctRg+Kr6kfPIp+/c3TyEpbOY/4R6r4hi8lZS ahKfdWWnJh4aMfIiljLO6RyRIVwzRf4PLkyl+xuPMy7EbtzC16kmI5syjur0XOv5 scF4eO+WHSnKcDDA8bC1B+/qVdHJrtu9gJc+4ZlUEnLDGPGq3s09LPIDhYgLlb3j Dw3bOdqYzCmf6WEaFC6OT0R4nPWPifosBCYONr94pyJ+npLLUe1dyR1U/sPxQwxL CcT0VAt8FQH1qlPER+6DvEoV3XLVtmx05nB7iKkSY2nBS5ZifvP+2Wid7wEE8XH+ EKLqxDB85PtXKifhlMpgUpEa/sf1u8ZotsQEmubMJCYi1WrKsij1vIYTsKqjb9gK 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1 0

Child Pornography [JPEG]
by TruthMailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This email contains child pornography encrypted with strong cryptography using the public key of a federal prisoner. It is being sent via a chain of anonymous remailers using strong cryptography to Senators, Congressmen, and Media. It is originating from a hacked account which was protected by weak encryption. What can you do about it? Nothing! You can pass legislation violating the constitutional rights of millions of citizens to safeguard their privacy and freedom of speech--laws against strong encryption--laws against using anonymity in communications--laws against citizens putting an anti-government cork in their butt-hole (Government Access to Korks--GAK) but you can't stop myself and others from routing around the damage you do to freedom and liberty. Perhaps you can use the seized computer of the federal prisoner to decrypt the enclosed child pornography but you will not be able to decrypt the stego hidden inside this message which reveals my identity. The reason for this is simple--the stego technology I am using leaves the original graphics file unchanged. It is a technology that law enforcement does not have access to. There is an inner circle within society and the government that does have access to the technology, however, and they are using it to fight government and corporate fascism. What can you do? Pass another law--pass a law which imprisons anyone who has a thought or technology which is inaccessible to the scrutiny of government agencies. "Everything not permitted is forbidden." What can you do? Take away all rights and freedoms--imprison everyone. The constitutional rights and freedoms of the citizens have been trashed under the pretext of protecting society from drugs and pornography and numerous other horsemen of the apocalypse, yet I can drive ten minutes in any direction and find drugs to purchase and I can find and send pornography freely over a variety of medium. For the record, I acquired the software used to encrypt the enclosed child pornography from a foreign source while the U.S. government is ineffectually stifling American business in order to prevent tools of freedom and privacy from being universally available. -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 MessageID: gygqk6Zjhr8ssJKvMxDdwQkYiBMJaW22 hQCMA/qHVDBboB2dAQQAlcc0zGN2wXUG4twV4M1TXkrMmob/fYP4k4tpIv7KEJQ8 2vA/iBXDPxcfURdKp750bnNVFN0yUUUoYk7o6vnrwDFYWbe3zWE7sePbaY+L4f/A E4yCXGXwal9GN61ayH2mfQds8Jv328u7zLX8Dxeu5vs8ALtjw3GOnewwuHPr/Pul Pa0Y0I5Di3SGQGmvBo27nJZV2ev/ctRg+Kr6kfPIp+/c3TyEpbOY/4R6r4hi8lZS ahKfdWWnJh4aMfIiljLO6RyRIVwzRf4PLkyl+xuPMy7EbtzC16kmI5syjur0XOv5 scF4eO+WHSnKcDDA8bC1B+/qVdHJrtu9gJc+4ZlUEnLDGPGq3s09LPIDhYgLlb3j Dw3bOdqYzCmf6WEaFC6OT0R4nPWPifosBCYONr94pyJ+npLLUe1dyR1U/sPxQwxL CcT0VAt8FQH1qlPER+6DvEoV3XLVtmx05nB7iKkSY2nBS5ZifvP+2Wid7wEE8XH+ EKLqxDB85PtXKifhlMpgUpEa/sf1u8ZotsQEmubMJCYi1WrKsij1vIYTsKqjb9gK 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"writing code"
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I think that "cypherpunks write code" is best understood with an added layer of abstraction, e.g., "cypherpunks change the things that bother them." So I think that "cypherpunks write memes" can be a useful strategy. But I think it's important to pay attention to which memes are written - do you mean "Write your Congressperson about this horrible problem!" or "Fuck the government, fix your own problem(s)!"? Many of the exhortations to the public consist mostly of "Hey! Get involved! Vote!", even where this passive "voting" stuff created the very problems which led to the exhortations. Sure, let's write memes. But let's write memes that encourage people to solve their own problems and avoid the use of unnecessary force. The mess that Congress is making out of crypto policy and export control should provide a crystal-clear example of what we're likely to get if we expect Washington - or local legislatures - to fix our problems. Next year Congress will probably fuck with E-mail and spam legislation the way it's screwing up crypto this year. In 1999, they'll have found something else. (Also, FYI, there was an implied :) smiley at the end of my message about three-strikes term limits. It's a cute idea, but I bring it up mostly to illustrate how pathetic and weak contemporary political thought is - we're ending up with a legal system which consists of crap like that, announced at press conferences full of various sympathetic "victims", hosted & funded by lobbyists paid for by prison-guard unions.) -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto.

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[ PGP 2.6.3 ]
by bull＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Can someone give me a site where I can get a compiled copy of PGP 2.6.3?

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CNN - Encryption bill expected to pass House - June 23, 1997
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9706/23/encryption.reut/index.html Encryption bill expected to pass House June 23, 1997 Web posted at: 10:05 p.m. EDT (0205 GMT) WASHINGTON (Reuter) -- Legislation to relax U.S. export limits on computer-encoding technology is likely to move ahead in the House of Representatives this week, despite a severe setback in the Senate last week. The House International Relations' economic policy and trade subcommittee will vote on a bill Tuesday, chairwoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Republican of Florida, said. Current U.S. law strictly limits export of encryption software, which scrambles information and renders it unreadable without a password or software "key." Once the realm of spies and generals, encryption has become a critical technology to safeguard electronic commerce and global communications over the Internet. In the Senate last week, a similar bill to relax encryption-export controls was torpedoed when the Senate Commerce Committee approved a substitute which would only modestly ease export restrictions. It effectively would allow the government to crack encrypted messages in the United States by gaining access to the software keys. The Clinton administration has been a strong proponent of so-called key-recovery mechanisms, arguing that the proliferation of strong encryption without key recovery would hamper law-enforcement and national security agencies' ability to keep tabs on criminals and terrorists. The House bill under consideration relaxes export rules without requiring key recovery. With 125 co-sponsors in the House, and "enthusiastic support" from industry and civil liberties and privacy advocates, the bill "is expected to be passed with limited changes," Ros-Lehtinen added. The bill could face a tougher challenge when considered by the full International Relations Committee. Chairman Benjamin Gilman, Republican of New York, is not a strong supporter of export liberalization, congressional staffers said. U.S. software companies such as Netscape Communications, and Microsoft Corp. have been clamoring for relief from encryption export controls. Copyright 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.

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Re: Comparing Cryptographic Key Sizes
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes. > Below is a explanation of the meaning of cryptographic key sizes which > started as an explanation I wrote for a journalist friend of mine, on > being asked about how relatively secure a system using DES and RSA > (SET) was as compared to netscapes export version of SSL. > It could use some criticism. If you are not that crypto aware, does > it make sense to you? If you are crypto aware, what do you think of > my off the cuff estimates of hardness? > > > 56 bit DES is probably roughly similar to 512 bit RSA in hardness to > break. This is way off. We used ~457,000 MIPS years to search half of the DES keyspace. Factoring a 512 bit modulus using the General Number Field Sieve (GNFS) would take about 28,000 MIPS years (see Schneier for the exact number - I don't have AC2 at hand) Lenstra has estimated that with 500,000 MIPS years, you should be able to factor a 600 bit modulus using GNFS, if your workstations had enough memory. [...] > About 10 years ago now Michael Wiener made a design for such a DES > breaking machine. He estimated it would cost $10,000,000 to build a > machine which would break a 56 bit DES encrypted message a few hours. > His machine was scalable, pay more money, break the key faster, pay > less take longer. The estimate was that could build one with enough > DES key searching units to break it in a day for $1,000,000. That was > 10 years ago. 10 years is a long time in the computer industry. > Nowadays you build the machine more cheaply as chip technology has > progressed, and computers are much faster per $. Estimates are around > $100,000 to build the machine (neglecting hardware engineers > consultancy fees). Go back and check the numbers - if you don't the journalists will. (I don't have this paper to hand either :-( ) The Wiener paper is much more recent (93?) , and the cost much lower (I think it was about $1M for HW and $500K for development costs, for a 3.5 hour machine). Peter Trei trei(a)process.com

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Re: spam on this list
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 23 Jun 97 at 11:26, Jason William RENNIE wrote: > NO i dont wish to post any, i just want to know if this list has > spam sent to it ?? I started reciveing various pieces in the last > couple of days and i'm trying to identify the source. Spam *is* free speech, you know. <g> Ross =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

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Comparing Cryptographic Key Sizes II
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I got quite a few useful comments on the key comparison summary I posted earlier. Even some people said they found it useful. Mark Grant improved the readability, plus other suggestions. Peter Trei urged me to actually re-read the Wiener paper to quote the figures correctly rather than from memory. Also Peter raised issues to do with how to compare hardness to break DES against 512 bit RSA. There is now an aside more technical note explaining the issues. I think I stand by my original comparison of "roughly equal", because depending on how you view it, it'll come out 10x cheaper, or 10x harder. (Memory being one hurdle each participating workstation needing of the order of 128 Mb; the other hurdle being the existance of a machine large enough to reduce the matrix which results from all the relations). I don't think we can explain it any more technically and expect it to be useful to a journalist. We need a gross generalisation: is it approx as hard, is it 100x harder. They don't want to hear about space complexity, the matrix reduction phase (RSA) nor known plaintext memory trade offs (DES). If we don't supply the gross generalisation, they will do it themselves to make it palatable for their readers. With less understanding of the subject, their generalisation is likely to be even wildly inaccurate than the generous error bars on ours. This is not an insult to journalists. Crypto is a technical, complicated field. I wouldn't contemplate making estimates in other peoples fields. Further discussion of course still sought (rip it apart pessimists on crypto estimates). Here's the new improved version. Adam -- Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc` ====================================================================== Comparing Cryptographic Key Sizes There are two types of cryptographic keys; public keys -- sometimes called asymmetric key -- and symmetric keys. RSA and Diffie-Hellman are common public key algorithms and RC4, DES and IDEA common symmetric key algorithms. You cannot directly compare public key lengths (for example RSA keys) with symmetric key lengths (DES, RC4); this is an important point which confuses many people. For example, 40 bit RC4 (a symmetric key cipher) can be broken in a few hours with a few hundred workstations but 40 bit RSA (a public key cipher) can be broken in a fraction of a second on one PC. A 350 bit RSA key is roughly equivalent in strength to 40 bit RC4, and 512 bit RSA key is thought to cost roughly the same to break as a 56 bit DES key. (That last comparison (DES vs 512 bit RSA) glosses over many issues. Here's a summary if you're interested: no one's broken a 512 RSA bit key yet, and you need lots of memory to break RSA at that key size, a PC with 128 Mb would be required to participate. In contrast, you need hardly any memory to break DES, any PC will do. The internet based breaking of a DES key in answer to RSA DSI's challenge involved many participants, and included some participants with low end 486 PCs with 1Mb of memory. Theoretically 512 bit RSA could be broken more quickly than DES, but, as you need more memory than typical workstations have, a distributed internet attack with the same group of participants as for the DES break would clearly take longer. There are a number of other factors also.) Symmetric keys sizes are easy to understand; for any particular algorithm, adding one bit to the key length doubles the difficulty. Estimating the difficulty of breaking a public key (say RSA) is harder because the increase in strength is not straightforward, but typically adding ten bits to the size of an RSA key doubles the strength. This is why public key systems require longer keys to provide the same security. Most systems use a mixture of public and symmetric key ciphers, because public key ciphers are _slow_ but dramatically simplify key management. Symmetric key ciphers are fast, so they are used in conjunction with public key systems to speed up the combined system. Such a system using two ciphers -- one public key and one symmetric key -- is only as strong as the weakest link. For example, consider the export version of SSL, as shipped in the export version of Netscape browsers and servers; it uses 512 bit RSA, and 40 bit RC4. Cracking 40 bit RC4 is easier than cracking 512 bit RSA, so export SSL can be broken by breaking the 40 bit RC4 component. Ian Goldberg recently broke a 40 bit RC5 key himself with Berkeley univ machines in 3.5 hours. 40 bit RC4 could be broken in a similar time. 512 bits RSA is not enough either, and you can rest assured that the NSA, other governments' secret services, and any corporation or organised crime group with sufficient funds can break it. 512 bits is likely within reach of a distributed internet effort, or soon will be. There is a further problem. Each session uses a different, randomly chosen, RC4 key, so breaking one RC4 key only allows you to read a single message. However, every message is encrypted with the _same_ 512 bit RSA key, so if you can break that key you can immediately read any message sent to or from the server. As a consequence, the public key size should be chosen to be much harder to break than the symmetric key. In this case although the key is thousands of times harder to break it would be worth attacking if the server is processing thousands or millions of transactions. 56 bit DES is harder to break than 40 bit RC4 (SSL); you would expect that the extra sixteen bits would increase the difficulty 65536 times, but DES is faster than RC4. In software it's about 5 times faster, so breaking DES in software is about 10000 times harder than breaking 40 bit RC4 (as used in export SSL). But if the Russian Mafia or a corporation involved in industrial espionage wanted to break 56 bit DES they would not use software but would build a special purpose piece of hardware which was designed only to break DES. DES was designed to be fast in hardware, and is a relatively slow cipher in software. In 1993 Michael Wiener designed such a DES breaking machine. His estimated cost for a machine capable of breaking 56 bit DES in a 3.5 hours hours was $1,000,000. The machine was scalable, so that by spending more or less money you could reduce or increase the time taken to break the key. He estimated that building a machine to break DES in 21 minutes would cost $10,000,000. That was 10 years ago; 10 years is a long time in the computer industry. Today the machine would be much cheaper because chip technology has progressed and computers are much faster per $. Estimates are around $20,000 to build a machine to break a DES key within a day (neglecting hardware engineers consultancy fees). When you consider the sorts of uses DES is being used for by banks, ATM card PINs, wire transfers, interbank exchanges, DES is clearly out-of-date. Everyone expects that NSA, GCHQ, SCSSI have built one or more machines for $20,000+; this is considered obvious because the NSA and SCSSI allow export of 56 bit DES. $20,000 is not much money for a secret service, or for many less scrupulous individuals. Algorithms using 40 bit keys are insecure against all but trivial cracking attempts. Systems using DES (such as SET) are only secure against organisations who can't raise $20,000 and can't find people who know lots about crypto and hardware design; $20,000 is not much money for the Rusian Mafia either. Even worse, once you have built such a machine the cost of cracking each key is only a few hundreds or thousands of dollars, so any DES key protecting information of greater value is a tempting target. US export controls used to restrict exports to 40 bit RC4. When the cypherpunks broke several 40 bit RC4 systems the rules were relaxed to 56 bits. Now that a distributed internet group has broken 56 bit DES, the US government's claim that 56 bit is "good enough" is being demonstrated to be patently false. The US government's other ploy has been to allow larger key lengths, but to keep a master key to all communications for themselves. When full strength encryption systems with 128 bit symmetric keys are widely available from foreign competitors, this firstly makes no sense: why can't the US software industry export when every one has strong crypto anway. And secondly the US software industry is losing billions each year in lost sales to their european competitors. 128 bit encryption is unbreakable for all practical purposes. You will recall in the discussion above that each bit of key size doubles the work required to break a symmetric cipher. A 128 bit cipher is 4,722,366,482,869,645,213,696 times harder to break than DES. That is a very large number. Messages encrypted with such keys aren't likely to be breakable for 30-100 years from now. Similarly 1024, to 4096 bit public key systems are in use, and available outside the US. These systems are of roughly comparable hardness to break to 128 bit symmetric keys, the larger the key, the more secure. One final point: things are getting better for cryptography. The attackers job is getting harder. With each doubling of machine speed it is possible to use larger keys, and still encrypt and decrypt instantly when you have the key. When PGP was first released back in 1991, 1024 bit RSA keys were slow to use on the state of the art PC then, a lowly '286. Nowadays an entry level PC, a Pentium 133 whistles through 4096 bit keys. If we say that a P133 is 50x faster than a 20Mhz '286 you can see that the same person using encryption now can use key sizes which before were too slow. I can assure you that in moving from a 1024 bit key to a 4096 bit key, the attackers job is well in excess of 50x harder. Greatly in excess of a trillion trillion times harder.

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