December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: [PGP-USERS] *** THE HAYSTACK REMAILER IS GONE ***
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >Subject: [PGP-USERS] *** THE HAYSTACK REMAILER IS GONE *** > >They are > >dropping like flies, unfortunately. > > use of the remailer to spam people who have > > already turned off access to their accounts from other sources, > > The final > > straw was the use of the remailer to send out several > > hundred "MAKE MONEY FAST"-style messages to a group of > > folks who then rebelled or retaliated to the remailer itself; Several months ago, someone (Toto, I believe) posted a thoughtful message suggesting that the burgeoning Internet would result in a huge influx of carpetbaggers of one sort or another, and that the established entities, such as lists and remailers, had best be making plans to deal with the changing frontier or suffer the consequences. Another person, whose name escapes me, as she rarely posts, replied that she thought the post would prove prophetic, much more so than people believed. I mention this mostly to point out that it has been only a short time since this prediction was made, and it is already coming to fruitation in more than a few areas. Survival is going to mean adjustment to the fast changing conditions of the growing Internet. Social and political issues are going to impact developments as much or more than technology, and any entity which cannot adapt in these areas will die off, like the dinosaurs. While I sympathize with the remailer operators for having to deal with spamming problems, spammers and assholes did not suddenly appear out of nowhere in the recent past. The quickening pace of changes in the future will no longer allow system operators and administrators to wait until problems become unmanageable before they make plans to deal with them. In addition to pure anonymous remailers, perhaps there is a need for variations, as well, which encompass varying forms of subscription or authentication. Perhaps limiting the number of posts from an address, raising that limit according to gained reputation capital. As far as anonymity being maintained, is it possible for the system files which log identity/address to be encrypted with a password that is not known to any human, but only to the system? i.e. - even with a court order, there is no way for the operator to provide the info. Lessening the legal hassles could spread the use of remailers, with many being resistant to abuse. Those to whom the anonymity is very important would not have any problem finding the remaining pure remailers. Most of the quick-buck crowd would probably not make the effort to find them, having assumed, from the spam resistant remailers, that they are not a valid option for them. If cypherpunks are serious about making remailers available to the public then we will need to make them both useable and functional for those who might be open to running them. This cannot be done by making them only useful for 'pure' use. If someone were to design a remailer that would only let whites use it, there would be a great hue and cry, but there would also be more remailers available, shortly thereafter. Then someone would design one that could only be used for minorities, etc. If you really want to spread the use of remailers, design them so that you can make a pile of money off of them, in a good way. Then get rich while you further their development and use. TruthMonger

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WebWorld 10-11
by Bubba Rom Dos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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WebWorld 12-14
by Bubba Rom Dos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: "why privacy" revisited
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:48 pm -0500 on 3/23/97, Peter D. Junger wrote: > On the other hand the strongest proponent of interning the Japanese > was the governor of California: Earl Warren. Thank you, Peter, for what I believe is the most singular example of the two sides of the statism coin I've ever seen. Seen with the traditional liberal/conservative political worldview, it makes no sense for the famous compassionate liberal judge Earl Warren, whose supreme court presided over the creation of the world's largest welfare state, to advocate what is on its face an extremely conservative act -- the internment of thousands of Japanese Americans in concentration camps -- in his earlier role as a state governor. Viewed from the statism/freedom standpoint, it is completely logical, that is, "We're your nation-state. We're stronger than you are, and we'll take what we damn well please from you, including your life, if necessary." In the case of the Japanese concentration camps, it was taking the personal freedom of Japanese Americans. In the case of the judicially activist Warren court's welfare state, it was the confiscation of assets from productive members of society in violation of the laws of economics, which in turn caused misery for the increasing dole-dependant millions. People who are now much less free than they ever were before the creation of the "Great Society". I *love* this list. Absolutely love it. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/

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PGP as disinformation
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sergey Goldgaber wrote: >This is only a practical problem related to PGP's lack of popularity. >The proposed solution will work in the long run, assuming PGP achieves >great popularity. Thus, education of the public concerning PGP and remailers >will help make this solution more effective. > Has this list not considered the very real possibility that PGP is itself a rogue program released by the intelligence apparatus to detour we cyberpunks? As I have been arguing, the obvious is often false. While certain statists on this list are arguing in vain that I lack expertise in cryptographic matters, the truth is apposite this. Ask not for whom Bell toils, Dr. Roberts -- --

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Re: "why privacy" revisited
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:55 PM 3/23/97 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Seen with the traditional liberal/conservative political worldview, it >makes no sense for the famous compassionate liberal judge Earl Warren, >whose supreme court presided over the creation of the world's largest >welfare state, to advocate what is on its face an extremely conservative >act -- the internment of thousands of Japanese Americans in concentration >camps -- in his earlier role as a state governor. > >Viewed from the statism/freedom standpoint, it is completely logical, that >is, "We're your nation-state. We're stronger than you are, and we'll take >what we damn well please from you, including your life, if necessary." > >In the case of the Japanese concentration camps, it was taking the personal >freedom of Japanese Americans. In the case of the judicially activist >Warren court's welfare state, it was the confiscation of assets from >productive members of society in violation of the laws of economics, which >in turn caused misery for the increasing dole-dependant millions. People >who are now much less free than they ever were before the creation of the >"Great Society". Which is yet another of the many reasons I can espouse an "extreme" solution to the problem, but one that I can honestly claim to not consider "extreme" at all! The way I see it, the lives of these thugs are not sufficiently valuable to lose sleep over their loss, when to keep them around means the kinds of abuse society has suffered for many generations. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: "why privacy" revisited
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert Hettinga wrote: > At 8:48 pm -0500 on 3/23/97, Peter D. Junger wrote: > > On the other hand the strongest proponent of interning the Japanese > > was the governor of California: Earl Warren. > Thank you, Peter, for what I believe is the most singular example of the > two sides of the statism coin I've ever seen. > Seen with the traditional liberal/conservative political worldview, it > makes no sense for the famous compassionate liberal judge Earl Warren, > whose supreme court presided over the creation of the world's largest > welfare state, to advocate what is on its face an extremely conservative > act -- the internment of thousands of Japanese Americans in concentration > camps -- in his earlier role as a state governor. > Viewed from the statism/freedom standpoint, it is completely logical, that > is, "We're your nation-state. We're stronger than you are, and we'll take > what we damn well please from you, including your life, if necessary." > In the case of the Japanese concentration camps, it was taking the personal > freedom of Japanese Americans. In the case of the judicially activist > Warren court's welfare state, it was the confiscation of assets from > productive members of society in violation of the laws of economics, which > in turn caused misery for the increasing dole-dependant millions. People > who are now much less free than they ever were before the creation of the > "Great Society". Bob, It humbles me to realize that I had completely overlooked this example of the evil forces lurking in the background (and under the bed) being involved in the duplicity of even using the bleeding heart liberals to imprison and slowly bleed us of both our wealth and our freedom. If you wish to devote more of your time to exposing these types of dark undercurrents to those on the CypherPunks list, then Dale and I would be more than happy to run the eca$h lists for a while, to free up your time. (What are friends for, eh?) -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C[rook] Mayonnaise's abysmal grammar, atrocious spelling and feeble responses clearly identify him as a product of the American education system. ___ ./_ -\. q| o O |p -oOOO--~U~--OOOo- Timmy C[rook] Mayonnaise

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I want to see your paper " A New Attack to RSA on Tamperproof Devices".
by Yu-Hyun Kim 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Sir, Would you send me the full paper "A New Attack to RSA on Tamperproof Devices"? Yu-Hyun Kim yhkim(a)dingo.etri.re.kr

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INFO: Pro-CODE hearing (photo, audio, & text) available online!
by Shabbir Safdar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

========================================================================== _ _ __| | ___ _ __ ___ ___ ___ _ __ __ _ ___ _ _ _ __ ___| |_ / _` |/ _ \ '_ ` _ \ / _ \ / __| '__/ _` |/ __| | | | | '_ \ / _ \ __| | (_| | __/ | | | | | (_) | (__| | | (_| | (__| |_| |_| | | | __/ |_ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|\___/ \___|_| \__,_|\___|\__, (_)_| |_|\___|\__| |___/ Enhancing Participation in the Democratic Process Through the Internet _________________________________________________________________________ Update No.2 http://democracy.net/ March 20, 1997 _________________________________________________________________________ Table of Contents - democracy.net Cybercast draws Thousands to Interactive Hearing - Upcoming Events - Volunteering for democracy.net - About democracy.net ___________________________________________________________________________ DEMOCRACY.NET CYBERCAST DRAWS THOUSANDS TO INTERACTIVE CONGRESSIONAL HEARING democracy.net, a project designed to explore ways of enhancing citizens participation in the democratic process via the Internet, held its first live, interactive cybercast of a Congressional hearing on Wednesday March 19th, 1997. Thousands of Internet users joined this historic event by listening to a live audio feed from the hearing (cybercast over the Internet via RealAudio), submitting questions and testimony for the hearing record, reading information about the hearing, and joining a simultaneous online discussion forum to discuss the hearing with Congressional staff and policy experts. The hearing was held by the Senate Commerce Committe to consider S. 377, the Promotion of Commerce online in the Digital Era (Pro-CODE) Act and this issue of US encryption policy -- a critical issue to the Internet user community. Some statistics from the event. * 6,019 individual Internet users visited the democracy.net web site containing information about the Hearing, links to both sides of the issue, and other relevant information in the 24 hours preceding the event. * 703 individuals listened to the hearing live online via Real Audio throughout the 3 hour event. The actual Senate hearing room (Russell 253) where the event took place only holds less than one hundred people when filled to capacity (as it was for this hearing). * Throughout the event, between 20 - 50 people joined the simultaneous live chat discussion where Commerce Committee staff and encryption policy experts fielded questions and discussed the hearing. The audience included individual Internet users, reporters, advocacy groups, and Congressional staff. * Twenty-three Internet users submitted formal comments for the hearing record via the democracy.net web page, including IETF chair Fred Baker. The democracy.net cybercast was promoted on the front page of Netscape's World Wide Web site (one of the most popular destinations on the entire Web) on March 18 - 19. The site is also featured at Progressive Networks WebActive Site of the Week for the week of March 17-21. Despite some technical bugs early on (par for the course for a cutting-edge Internet event such as this), the cybercast went even better than we anticipated. We are grateful to Brett Scott, Mike Rawson, Matt Raymond, Mike Inners, and Pia Pialorsi of the Senate Commerce Committee staff for their help and support of this effort. Archives of the hearing are posted http://democracy.net/events/03191997/ democracy.net is a new project of the Center for Democracy and Technology and the Voters Telecommunications Watch designed to explore ways of enhancing citizen particpation in the democratic process via the Internet. democracy.net is made possible through the generous support of Webactive Panix, Digex, and the Democracy Network. Visit http://democracy.net/about/ for more details. ______________________________________________________________________________ UPCOMING EVENTS * April 10, 8:30PM EST - Online town hall meeting with Rep. Rick White (R-WA), Co-Founder of the Congressional Internet Caucus * April 16, 8:30PM EST - Online town hall meeting with Rep. Anna Eshoo (D-CA), Key Representative from California's Silicon Valley and leader on Internet Policy issues. * Additional events are in the works -- please visit http://www.democracy.net for more details, and sign up for our event announcement mailing list. democracy.net town hall meetings will be moderated by Todd Lappin (Cyber Rights Editor for Wired Magazine). The town hall meetings are designed to bring interested members of the Internet community and key members of congress together to discuss current Internet policy issues. ____________________________________________________________________________ VOLUNTEERING FOR DEMOCRACY.NET A volunteer is needed to help index the RealAudio transcript of the hearing. If you would like to help, please do the following and mail the results to webmaster(a)democracy.net. To index the RealAudio transcript, please listen to the transcript and watch the time counter at the bottom right of the page. Please note the following beginning and ending times: -whenever a new witness begins their prepared testimony and, -whenever a question and answer section begins. Mail them to us at webmaster(a)democracy.net with the start and stop times of each section. Thanks! ____________________________________________________________________________ ABOUT DEMOCRACY.NET The democracy.net is a joint project of the Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT) and the Voters Telecommunications Watch (VTW) to explore ways of enhancing citizen participation in the democratic process via the Internet. To this end, democracy.net will host live, interactive cybercasts of Congressional Hearings and online town hall meetings with key policy makers. democracy.net is made possible through the generous support of WebActive, PANIX Internet, the Democracy Network, and DIGEX Internet. More information about the project can be found at http://democracy.net/about/ To receive democracy.net announcements automatically, please visit http://democracy.net/ _____________________________________________________________________________ end Update No.2 03.20.97 =============================================================================

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