December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Me again -- apologies and explanations
by h2＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I dont know what the hell is happening; My friend comes over and he is really intrested in all this stuff...I want to apologize for any trouble caused...My name goes with every damn message...Again, sorry everyone. Guess he wanted to rather have me screwed then him. Im unsubscribing...

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CyberPromo out of service, near bankruptcy
by Will rodger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I rarely post re: anything but crypto policy, but what the heck - Cyber Promotions is down. It may never get up. Details at out site. http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/daily/961024x.html Cheers Will Rodger Washington Bureau Chief Inter@ctive Week -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.9 iQEVAgUBMnEl7kcByjT5n+LZAQFTyQgAzTJTT8SImOATbr59hq9qX+yPYePfLU5i nLZtXXf9zjC2aK13s/JwJsoLVc8Y47acEjrFQsi/hF2b+c+ifP3e6wgHp3f5Ully 241uu6iu4Ywu2lEeIOU/azwDqQ3zXxzOJXfjyU/emqRtJpp2+R714y4mvQQF/5Bs lGyzUp7dldEDltJgizBW6+l3MIoLU3+ELV0wv6GI+2JxMqpgniqZmBAsxPYFkC2Y AHSyosexhRbCxIiO0QaJ52+Y+7HNxX5ktBC4P1i6Hj4K9BTfAUdy0OImAOE+gbZp Wk2tonBX2XcpAoAbJG1RUc25UU0Miyt/uRk6P+dujxedNZfaQU4CIA== =i8dT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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$30_bil
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

10-27-96. NYP Book Review: SECRET AGENCIES U.S. Intelligence in a Hostile World. By Loch K. Johnson. 262 pp. New Haven: Yale University Press. $30. Johnson, formerly assistant to Les Aspin, aims to explain what the dozen American intelligence agencies actually do with $30 billion a year. Absent the cartoon heroics, it's not far from Tom Clancy. Mr. Johnson avoids mushy reflections on the human costs of covert action -- this book is clearly meant for policy wonks -- but does note that "the long-term consequences of covert actions have seldom been foreseen -- and have often proved detrimental to the United States." ----- http://jya.com/$30bil.txt (5 kb) Server's got lead in its. Try, try. ftp://jya.com/pub/incoming/$30bil.txt $30_bil

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RE: "Countless third world deaths"--who cares?
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hard Media <zaid(a)hardnet.co.uk> wrote: >Citibank is a major player in the third world debt crisis. [Thomas Bass interviewing Citibank's Walter Wriston] > goes on to ask if "Walter" has made any "bad loans" ie to >dictators and other nasty sorts >...jeez sorry but there's naivity and there's stupidity "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> wrote: >Money was lent for economic development projects...some worked, >some didn't. Lenders of money don't "cause" deaths. People are >responsible for their own actions, mostly. If their governments are >corrupt, they need to replace those governments. In Re: Stopping the buying of candidates "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> wrote >Our political system is already in thrall to various special interests; > [...] So be it. Let the highest bidder buy the government he can. In RE: wired wankers Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> wrote: >These are very serious folks [Wriston et al.]. [...] > Don't get in their way unless you have an angel on your side. >An angel with a bag of cash, actually. In Re: Timmy May is a jerk "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> wrote: >I guess I'm not much of a joiner. I never donated to the United Way "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> wrote: >If this sounds harsh, so be it. >Cypherpunks is not about redistributing wealth. Ahh, but you don't really believe this. Your vision of cypherpunks is all about redistributing wealth. Just not in the sense you speak of. There is naivete and then there is complicity. James "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> wrote: >People are responsible for their own actions, mostly.

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Merc: PacBell predicts imminent death of the net; film at 11
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Full text freely available at http://www.sjmercury.com/business/dial1023.htm (they do one or two net-related stories "free" per day) Pac Bell says Net use may collapse phone system ISPs rebut dire, 'trumped-up' prediction Published: Oct. 24, 1996 BY HOWARD BRYANT Mercury News Staff Writer As many as one of every six telephone calls in Silicon Valley now doesn't go through on the first try because Internet denizens are tying up the lines, Pacific Bell reported Wednesday. Under normal circumstances, less than 1 percent of calls go uncompleted, the company said. The situation is so dire that California's entire phone system is in danger of breakdown, a company executive said, with Silicon Valley especially on red alert. [...] But rather than being a sign of imminent collapse, critics called Pac Bell's startling statistic a trumped-up charge designed to scare the public and pressure federal regulators into ending a price break Internet service providers enjoy when tying into Pac Bell's network. ''The Internet is a baby and Pac Bell has been in this game since Alexander Graham Bell's bar mitzvah. Now they're saying that in the last three weeks, we broke the phone system? Come on,'' said the head of a service provider who asked not to be named for fear of reprisal by Pac Bell. [...] At the heart of the issue is a pricing conflict between Pac Bell and the ISPs. In 1983, the Federal Communications Commission gave companies that offered Internet services, and other ''enhanced service providers,'' an exemption from the per-minute fees that other companies, such as long-distance telephone companies, pay to use Pac Bell's network. [...] Wiping out the subsidy would force Internet companies to find new, more efficient ways of pricing that better reflect actual usage, Parker said. In all likelihood, Net service prices would increase for consumers. [...] ''This is clearly a ruse,'' said Dick Severy, director of public policy for MCI. ''They've added 691,000 access lines this year. Business lines are up. It's curious.''

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Dr. Vulis is not on cypherpunks any more
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

As stated by Dr. Vulis, he is no longer on the cypherpunks mailing list, and indeed majordomo(a)toad.com HAS been instructed to ignore his requests to resubscribe. I removed him, on my own initiative. I got tired of asking him to stop stirring up flames. When he posted a message saying that we'd have to use technical means to stop him from flaming the list, I said, "OK". Tim May was not involved. I've met Dr. Vulis in person. He seemed like a reasonable guy. I treated him that way for months, despite his inability to control himself on the list. When he ultimately declined to control his outbursts after numerous personal requests, I removed him. The cypherpunks list is for discussions centered around cryptography. I'm sure there are several mailing lists where ethnic cleansing discussions would be welcome. There are probably even mailing lists which encourage people to fire off their best inflammatory messages. If there aren't, Dr Vulis could start one. I don't sponsor any. Cypherpunks, please resist your own temptation to bait him (or anyone else). The best defense a mailing list has against flames is to simply ignore them. When they don't provoke an emotional response, they don't accomplish the poster's goal, and the poster eventually wanders off in search of more naive pastures. John Gilmore

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Re: ITAR financial crypto exception?
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:25 PM 11/1/96 -0800, Greg Broiles quoted: >According to the "United States Munitions List", 22 CFR 121.1, Category >XIII, "Auxiliary Military Equipment": > >"Information Security Systems and equipment, cryptographic devices, >software, and components specifically designed or modified therefor" are >included in the munitions list; but not if they are > >"[s]pecially designed, developed or modified for use in machines for >banking or money transactions, and restricted to use only in such >transactions. Machines for banking or money transactions include automatic >teller machines, self-service statement printers, point of sale terminals >or equipment for the encryption of interbanking transactions." (22 CFR >121.1, Category XIII (b)(1)(ii)), > >or if they are > >"[l]imited to access control, such as automatic teller machines, >self-service statement printers or point of sale terminals, which protects >password or personal identification numbers (PIN) or similar data to prevent >unauthorized access to facilities but does not allow for encryption of >files or >text, except as directly related to the password of PIN protection." (22 >CFR 121.1, Category XIII (b)(1)(v)). I don't think either of these exclusions would cover the reference implementation of the SET protocol. I don't think it would cover an electronic commerce application running on a personal computer/workstation either. Therefore I conclude that the ITAR is contributing to the vulnerability of our emerging electronic commerce infrastructure. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Tired of Dole/Clinton? | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | Vote 3rd party. I'm | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | Voting for Harry Browne | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: Moneychangers and Shylocks
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jer+(a)andrew.cmu.edu wrote: > "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: > > and opportunity for me and my family, Arguing > > that native peoples were better off before the arrival of Europeans is > > fatuous nonsense--you can't go home again. > > Not true. "Society" has passed through Africa many times, the people > revert to their previous ways. I disagree. Only some ways, you don't see them tossing their AK 47s for spears. > > Further, many of the leftist critiques of "moneylending as exploitation" > > are similar to past (and current) demonizations of moneychangers, > > moneylenders, shylocks, and other assorted stereotypes. > > > > I don't favor nationalistic lending and borrowing policies, which, for > > example, involve some central government borrowing money, sending the > > borrowed funds to personal Swiss bank accounts, and then sticking the > > nominal taxpayers with the debt. Nothing I have said here endorses > this. > > But that's the only way it hapens in the third world. The only time > foreign aid is not gutted by corrupt beaurocrats is when the > Westerners go there and manage the projects themselves. This is quite > different from a loan. Wrong, and wrong. Lending to individuals is happening, in $100 or so ammounts, without westerners (or their governments' crooked bureaucrats) present, right now. > > But much lending is useful. It's the way factories get built, the way > > things get done. > > Heh, have you ever *seen* a third world factory 10 years after it was > built. Nice bit of scap, that. Ask of government was involved. > > Much of the criticism of "moneylenders" is closely related, if you > think > > about it, to criticism of "money launderers." Cypherpunks should relish > the > > rise of new mechanisms for money laundering, moneylending, tax evasion, > etc. > > > > I took the "Wired" quote about Walter Wriston "sounding like a > cypherpunk" > > to represent this new view, in explicit contrast to his earlier views > when > > he headed Citibank and they had a more statist approach. > > > > Your mileage may vary, but tired homilies about lending being exploitati > on > > are not very useful in this day and age. > > I dunno, pearls befre swine still applies. It's not that I think > lending is bad, but large economic development loans to thrild world > countries continue to support corruption and oppression, and not much > else. Because of governments more than banks. You are beginning to see the light.

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Sorry, nyt
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We were unfair to call news-reading by gatekeeper.nytimes.com of jya.com "snooping." We apologize to gatekeeper for that mischaracterization. And for disclosing here access info which should be private. The site is open to anyone, the more anonymous the better. Use anonymizer.com.

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[NOISE] Re: Thank you, John Gilmore, for protecting freedom of speech against Dr. Dmitri Vulius
by darius＠hotliquid.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 2 Nov 1996 06:45:54 -0800 John Anonymous MacDonald <nobody(a)cypherpunks.ca> wrote: > Thank you, John, for being so brave and protecting our freedom of > on-topic speech. You are a true cypherpunk. > > Thank you, Timothy C May, for advancing cryptography by posting 100% > crypto-relevant messages about loans to other countries and your > collection of assault weapons. > > John and Timothy just made the cypherpunks list better. ---------------------- Well, here's the wonderful thing about cypherpunks. It's a privately run list. There isn't freedom to flame wantonly, there isn't a 'right to insult' Vulius has plagued this list for quite some time. I'm glad he's been removed. We return you to your regularly scheduled on-topic posts. darius(a)hotliquid.com

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