December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: 5th protect password?
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:25 PM 4/21/96 +0000, Jonathon Blake wrote: > > The first forensic use of graphology may have occurred as early > as 1960. In 1975, a Juvenile Court Judge in Boulder CO used > graphology forensically to determine the most appropriate method > of handling some of the cases that appeared in _his_ court. > > Most courts in the United States regard the forensic use of > graphology as dubious, at best. A few have ruled against > it. > >> The point is that the demanding of handwriting samples is a fairly new >> What do you want to bet that it first occurred in this century? > > For questioned document examination? Sometime during the > sixties. > For graphological examination? Hasn't occurred yet. Tell this to Unicorn. He seems to disagree, although he hasn't cited specifics yet. > >> If that were the case, there there would be no justification for demanding a >> handwriting sample. Nevertheless, it is apparently done. And while a > > Can you provide a citation where a court has demanded a handwriting > sample for graphological purposes? Adding the conditional "for graphological purposes," I can't. I was merely referring to a SC decision previously quoted here. The writing of that reference didn't make clear what purposes the sample could be used for. > >> Question: Let's suppose, for the purposes of argument, the policy was >> diametrically opposite, and no such samples were taken, ostensibly because > > The gist of the argument is that handwriting samples are public, > and that things are written for public consumption, not private > consumption. > >> would come to the opposite conclusion. You would have to explain to people >> why the precedents were all wrong. > > > You are taking a completely hypothetical situation that never had > a basis in what could have happened. No. What I was trying to do is to get people to stop thinking of legal precedent as being some sort of end-all incident that makes all further discussion pointless. >> demanded of a defendant in 1783, which was about when the 5th amendment was >> written. > > What they said. > Where they said it. > What they had in their possession. > Where they had said items in their possession. > > Note in passing that rules for admitting something into > evidence was a lot looser then, than it is now. If that's really the case, and this would today be considered a clear violation of the 5th, what does that say about the claim that "current government policy" must be right? Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

3 2

golf stuff
by ballman＠t-1net.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

=====> WE WANT YOU TO KNOW MORE ABOUT GOLF BALLS <======= Lets Take Air For Example.... All of us know how tough it is to hit a good shot in windy conditions. We assume therefore that air is just another natural element we must out wit in order to score well. In reality, AIR is what makes it possible for us the hit the ball as far as we do. The SPIN we impart on a ball actually gives the ball lift, much like the wing on an aircraft imparts lift. This lift makes it possible for the ball to stay airborne longer, enabling it to travel farther. In a vacuum, the average 250 yard drive would only travel about 180 yards. A winged aircraft would not fly. Air is your Friend....::)) Now here's one for you......Does a ball fly farther on a hot dry day or cold wet day??....How about a hot humid day or a cold dry day ? Let me know what you think. Golfballs Unlimited USA reclaims balls from over 130 courses in 13 states. We stock over 50 varieties of balls. If you're an average player, by the time you have played 3 holes with a new ball, you are playing with a ball that's in much worse condition than our premium balls. We offer the highest possible quality recycled balls available...at direct pricing....HUGE SAVINGS over new balls. Yes we have BALATAS. Customer Satisfaction Is Absolutely Guaranteed. If you would like a free catalog, just send me an email. Click Here For Free Catalog Regards, Dana Jones The Ballman ballman(a)t1-net.com Our Mission: To Be The Best (As Determined By Our Customers) Suppliers of Quality Recycled Golf Balls BUY SELL TRADE ps..I have worked carefully to see that this educational information goes only to those who may have an interest. If you do not, please send me back an email with remove as the subject. I will not mail to you again.

1 0

Re: [NOISE] Re: Nazis on the Net
by Rich Burroughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:26 PM 4/22/96 -0700, Rich Graves wrote: >E. Allen Smith actually might have written: > >>I've seen various quotes from Randy Weaver in various publications, >>including Time and other non-right-wing ones. None of them indicated him >>as an actual neo-Nazi or racist > >BWAHAHAHA!!! This is from the DOJ report on the Ruby Ridge shooting: "Weaver first came to the attention of the BATF in July 1986 during its investigation of a series of bombings in Coer d'Alene, Idaho in which the Aryan Nations was believed to be involved. BATF asked Kenneth Fadeley, a confidential informant, to assist its investigation by obtaining information about people attending an upcoming World Aryan Congress who might be engaged in illegal activities.[FN23] Thereafter, Fadeley portrayed himself as a weapons dealer who catered to motorcycle gangs and, in this role, managed to be introduced to high level members of the Aryan Nations in Northern Idaho.[FN24] In July, 1986, Fadeley attended the World Aryan Congress at Hayden Lake, Idaho. During this assembly, Fadeley was introduced to Weaver, who was at that time of no particular investigative significance to BATF.[FN25]" Weaver may have just been attending the World Aryan Nations Congress for the beer and chicks... Portions of the report are online at http://isdn33.eng.uc.edu/~rabagley/ruby/ruby.toc.html Rich ______________________________________________________________________ Rich Burroughs richieb(a)teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb See my Blue Ribbon Page at http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/blueribbon New EF zine "cause for alarm" - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/cause

1 0

Re: DES as a stream cipher
by Rick Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

karl(a)geoplex.com ("Karl A. Siil") asks: >As this sounds like a previously solved problem, I wanted to find out about >using DES (or any block cipher) as a stream cipher, i.e., in a manner that >keeps input and output data length equal. I don't want to use a true stream >cipher, as I want to use the same key for multiple messages and stream >ciphers tend to place the bulk of their overhead in the re-key. Since stream >ciphers have "memory," I would have to "re-key" to the same key for each of >my messages. I would rather key something like DES once and run it in CBC >mode or use some other form of IV. The right answer depends on the types of attacks you're interested in countering. The classic reference is probably Voydock and Kent's "Security Mechanisms in High Level Network Protocols," from Computing Surveys in 1983. I think Stallings recently put together collection of paper reprints for IEEE Press that included this one. This paper is particularly nice since they present various streaming modes and then talk about the vulnerabilities associated with them. So it's not crypto algorithms so much as how to use them. Rick. smith(a)sctc.com secure computing corporation

1 0

SHA_dow
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Three US papers report on hardly any intelligence reforms endorsed by Don't Worry, Boys, Clinton in response to the ole-boy Brown's CIA-CYA-all-the-way dark shadowisms. SHA_dow

1 0

[Flatulence] Re: EYE_suk
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Is it just me, or is this sentence funny? > Underscoring the high-level attention the problem is > getting, the field exercise last week included Deputy > Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick and other senior > officials in Washington, with Gore's staff getting a daily > briefing. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "If they could 'just pass a few more laws', we would all be criminals." --Vinnie Moscaritolo The e$ Home Page: http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/

1 0

Re: Meta: The Arguing about the Terms of the Wager Continues
by jamesd＠echeque.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:45 PM 4/23/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: > And so the back-and-forth continues...taking up even more list space > arguing, waffling, finessing, rebutting, disputing, and on an on. > > Exactly as several of us have predicted. True, but one should note that it is Jim Bell that is weaseling, and that Unicorn is not weaseling. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

1 0

Re: 5th protect password?
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ C'punks, At 07:58 AM 4/23/96 -0700, James Donald wrote: >Yeah: fifty thousand dollars. >Not that it makes the slightest difference. > >On the extropians list a number of very large bets were made and >accepted, but nobody ever paid up. (Or very few -- I know of no >cases.) As much as I like the Extropians, personally, they haven't got a clue how to implement practical social systems. It is trivial to set up a wagering system that works--and you don't need all the "polycentric" blah blah. >Now if Unicorn had proposed a bet for one hundred dollars, then >I would sit up and take notice. A hundred dollars is real money. >Fifty thousand dollars is hot air... a) I proposed that a bet of $100 which Jim Bell ignored. That should have made you sit up and take notice. b) Unicorn has the 50Gs and I'm confident he would have paid up if necessary. >... Anybody who was serious about paying >would not make such ridiculous bets. This is a non-sequitor. Anyone serious about winning WOULD make such a bet. Do you really think that a legal scholar as good as Unicorn would just shoot from the hip without knowing he had it in the bag? S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 0

Re: 5th protect password?
by jamesd＠echeque.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:19 AM 4/23/96 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote: > didn't Unicorn offer Mr. Bell a > wager on this issue? Isn't the ball in Mr. Bell's court to put > his money where his mouth is? Yeah: fifty thousand dollars. Not that it makes the slightest difference. On the extropians list a number of very large bets were made and accepted, but nobody ever paid up. (Or very few -- I know of no cases.) When somebody proposes a bet that is substantially larger than the likely cost to his reputation if he weasels out, one can expect that, if he erred, he will not pay. Now if Unicorn had proposed a bet for one hundred dollars, then I would sit up and take notice. A hundred dollars is real money. Fifty thousand dollars is hot air, like one kid says, "I bet you I am right", and the other kid says "I bet you a zillion dollars you are wrong". If somebody proposes a bet that is larger than the likely reputation cost of weaseling, we should ignore the bet and subtract from the guys reputation as if he had already weaseled, since the events of the extropian list show that that is the most likely outcome. All of us have been wrong from time to time on matters where we were sure we were right. Anybody who was serious about paying would not make such ridiculous bets. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

2 1

Golden Key Campaign
by Dave Banisar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

PRESS RELEASE Wednesday, April 24, 1996 URL: http://www.privacy.org/ipc/ Contact: Marc Rotenberg, EPIC, 202/544-9240 Lori Fena, EFF, 415/436-9333 Barbara Simons, USACM 408/463-5661 Kurt Stammberger, RSA, 415/595-8782 ------------------------------------------ INTERNET PRIVACY COALITION FORMED Golden Key Campaign Launched Groups Urge Good Technology for Privacy and Security Senator Burns to Introduce Legislation ------------------------------------------ WASHINGTON, DC -- A new coalition today urged support for strong technologies to protect privacy and security on the rapidly growing Internet. The Internet Privacy Coalition said that new technologies were critical to protect private communications and on-line commerce, and recommended relaxation of export controls that limit the ability of US firms to incorporate encryption in commercial products. Phil Zimmermann, author of the popular encryption program Pretty Good Privacy, expressed support for the effort of the new coalition. "It is time to change crypto policy in the United States. I urge those who favor good tools for privacy to back the efforts of the Internet Privacy Coalition." GOLDEN KEY CAMPAIGN LAUNCHED The Coalition has asked companies and Internet users to display a golden key and envelope to show support for strong encryption technology. Copies of the logo are available at the group's web page on the Internet. According to Lori Fena, director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the purpose of the campaign is to educate the public about new techniques for privacy protection. "Society's feelings about privacy have not changed, only the medium has," said Ms. Fena. US industry has pressed the US government to relax export controls on encryption as consumer demand for software products has increased. They cite the fact that foreign companies have been able to sell strong products in overseas markets that are now restricted for US firms. Jim Bidzos, President and CEO of RSA Data Security, said that US firms continue to face excessive burdens. "Encryption is the key to on-line commerce. Government regulations are simply keeping US firms out of important markets." The Internet Privacy Coalition is the first attempt to bring together a broad base of companies, cryptographers and public interest organizations around the central goal of promoting privacy and security on the Internet and urging relaxation of export controls. Dr. Barbara Simons, chair of the public policy committee of the Association for Computing said, "The broad support for the Golden Key campaign shows that the reform of encryption policy is a shared goal for companies, users, and professional associations." SENATOR BURNS TO INTRODUCE LEGISLATION The Internet Privacy Coalition is being established as Congress considers new legislation to relax export controls on encryption. Senator Conrad Burns (R-MT) today introduced legislation that would relax export controls on commercial products containing technologies for privacy such as encryption. Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said "We believe that Senator Burns has put forward a constructive proposal. We look forward to working with him to ensure that good tools for privacy and security are widely available to Internet users." Hearings on Senator Burns bill are expected to take place in early June. The proposal has already gathered support from a bipartisan coalition in Congress. For Internet users who are interested in following the debate about encryption policy, the IPC has set up a Web page with information about encryption regulations, court challenges, legislative developments, and organizations and companies involved in the campaign. The Internet Privacy Coalition was established by more than a dozen of the nation's leading cryptographers, and thirty associations, companies, and civil liberties organizations committed to strong privacy and security technology for all users of the Internet. URL: http://www.privacy.org/ipc/ ---------------------------------------------- A KEY, AN ENVELOPE -- Both are historic means for communicating privately and protecting personal information. Today, encryption tools provide this privacy in the electronic world. The Golden Key Campaign is being launched to raise awareness and support for the preservation of the right to communicate privately and the availability of new techniques which make it possible. Privacy, a fundamental human right, has been affirmed by the US Supreme Court, the constitutions and laws of many countries, and the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Privacy must be preserved as we move from paper to electronic communications. The Internet Privacy Coalition is urging members of the net community to display a Golden Key & Envelope symbol on their Web pages to show support for the right of privacy and the freedom to use good tools of privacy without government restraints. ----------------------------------------------

1 0