December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: [Joke] It Takes a Village
by attila 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

** Reply to note from cpunk(a)remail.ecafe.org 04/30/96 10:49am +0100 well, might as well flesh it out and get the rest of us who were slighted --and don't forget yourself. if you can not laugh at yourself occasionally, check your pulse = Friend, = = Here's Timothy May, the self-appointed village headman. = He's surrounded by a bunch of arse-kissing accolytes: = -"Gosh, I thought that Java was garbage, but now that Tim mentions it, = it's the best thing in the world" = -"Tim's right, Java is terrific." = = Village Jester: "Tim's dead wrong. Java isn't good--it's great!" = = Then there's Perry Metzger, the local squire, who's embittered over the = fact that, while he's got some worthwhile things to say, he's always = overpowered by the "charisma" and new clothes of May. = = Jim Bell, village idiot. He's always good sport for the village bully, = Black Unicorn. His pretentions aside ("the black unicorn has been in = my family crest for a thousand years"), he is in actuality a short, = portly Philadelphia accountant by the name of Irving Lipshitz-Groins. = = Cordially, = = Your village historian -- Overseeing first-rate programmers is a managerial challenge roughly comparable to herding cats.

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Re: Freedom and security
by angels＠wavenet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mike McNally wrote >If.... (freedom and security) ....weren't antithetical, there'd be no need >for a balance. If they were antithetical then as freedom increased security would decrease, and as security increased freedom would decrease. It is not IMHO inevitable that if we increase security we will jeopardize freedom. My concern is that if we ignore security we will have no freedom left to protect. I don't believe the Internet community is split into two camps on this issue - there appear to me to be many places where people draw their lines at different points. I don't believe that security is the enemy of freedom. I believe that freedom needs security in order to exist at all. ********************************************************* Colin Gabriel Hatcher - CyberAngels Director angels(a)wavenet.com "Two people may disagree, but that does not mean that one of them is evil" *********************************************************

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once again
by Perry E. Metzger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lots of people seem to have misread my statement about java programs and I/O. To repeat: I fully understand that Java is a general programming language and can do I/O. However, "Safe" Java subsets, like the ones used for writing applets or presumably the ones that would be needed for markets in CPU cycles, do not do i/o. One could add i/o to the suite, but that would be dangerous. Perry

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Re: Smartcards are coming to the US
by btmoore＠iquest.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 06:00 PM 4/20/96 -0700, Lucky Green wrote: >Years after smartcards have become ubiquitous in such countries as Pakistan >and Nepal, not to mention Europe, I just saw my first smartcard commercial >ever on US television. > >Way to go :-) > > > >Disclaimer: My opinions are my own, not those of my employer, DigiCash, Inc. > >-- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> > PGP encrypted mail preferred. Hummm... Did you ever wonder *why* this was introduced to the "third-world" countries first? If you've been following the progress of the so called "smart- card," you will have noticed it was first introduced to areas that are extremely "low-tech" and well off the beaten path. Also the areas it was *first* introduced were generally marked by a high population density. Notice, "low-tech," high population density and in locations that are definitely out of the loop when it comes to news coverage. There was obviously a strategy involved and I think it would be prudent to wonder why. The U.S. is one of the most technologically advanced nations on the face of the earth. The citizenry are very familiar with technology and are quite adept in it's uses. Not to mention the fact that some of the worlds pivotal financial markets are located here, it makes one wonder why they didn't introduce the card here. I for one am not nearly so intrigued with the benefits of these "smart cards." I see too much room for mischief. Already, where I live, there are Insurance com- panies that have access to the data bases of grocery stores in this area. If one uses one's "debit card" to purchase groceries... and say, purchases a carton of cigarettes for a loved one or friend, the insurance company has access to that information. There is a growing collection of information being gathered on every- one in this country. Although it appears to be harmless, using sophisticated collation and analysis techniques, the accuracy of the inferences *I* believe constitute an invasion of privacy and a clear and present danger. Consider a scheme used by local law enforcement here several years ago. They set up an operation with the several horticulture stores. Anyone purchasing "grow lights" was noted, their license plates were copied and later... based on the fact, a person purchased a "grow light" a search warrant was issued for the search of their homes. Although grow lights are used all the time for legitimate purposes it was assumed that anyone purchasing one was growing marijuana. Imagine being awakened at 6:00 am by a team of narcotics officers with dogs and a warrant allowing them to search your premises. Given the current asset forfeiture laws, and given that well over 75% of the money supply by government studies has been contaminated with cocaine, you could lose your home if the dogs happen to "hit" on any money in your home. Never mind you're not one who grows or deals in narcotics, this is extremely dangerous! In the new anti-terrorism bill recently signed, the FBI has been given the ability to tap 1 out of 10 phone lines without the need to actually come out and set up a tap on your line. This will now be handled automatically for them by your friendly phone company. I see "smart cards" as one more twist in the ever tightening noose around our necks and the Bill of Rights. Not only will the cards be able to keep your complete history from cradle to the grave on them, but what's to prevent them from being used in the future as an internal passport of sorts? We are rapidly approaching the point where we will be stopped and required to produce our papers. This information will be readily available to any government agency... and not a few corporations to exploit at will. No I'm not at all enthused with the advent of the smart card. Currently there is much discussion regarding various banking institutions charging excessive amounts for transaction fees at your local "ATM." Wonder how much they will be looking to charge for this service? Something to think about. Benjamin T. Moore, Jr. (btmoore(a)iquest.net) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMYT0c4SAJOVFNaChAQG6kAf/SF/cMlbkj+0FQCBjHe29wJR93UMBqykf Fz0N9dUB+TLksddhcEMWzwY0oDGjT87DOjYmimzvDQgwinxQEemxe4pS2ph2ydJZ 3iELOWRcyKdD4Hi+RB2O9gjKNR6M1O2I/cvdnxjV6r+L9Ysd1ea35jJ2R7LhVVMf MRQQuMs3zx5zJafp2LNI43JCGvWweHy0ZEzHex65Ee9FdRTLNT5KIbl/QHaFP6Ij gMWysxBnj3bBCoBx0l511GMmPN0W/tycec45EvRFhJOUPR+H0bKhzoYs46tSQAkr NPPTFCdvFae539xgWlvVpIffp/mGigsjaKv7WJRu4hEpQeRV9lNGmA== =GGwf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they came for the Fourth Amendment I didn't say anything because I had nothing to hide. When they came for the Second Amendment I didn't say anything because I wasn't a gun owner. When they came for the Fifth and Sixth Amendments I didn't say anything because I had committed no crimes. When they came for the First Amendment I couldn't say anything." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PGP Key available from key servers, or on request. Key Fingerprint = 3D 90 0C 58 EE 65 AE 89 28 C5 58 A2 D5 F4 A8 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Freedom and security
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:47 AM 4/29/96 -0500, Mike McNally wrote: >CyberAngels Director : Colin Gabriel Hatcher wrote: >> My position is to seek a balance between the freedom of the individual and >> the security of the community. My argument is that when the security of >> the community is threatened by the freedom of the individual, the community >> will always prioritise its safety. Good government of course means >> maintaining individual freedoms *and* maintaining community security. I >> actually disagree that they are antithetical. On the contrary they are a >> balance that any society has to find. > >If they weren't antithetical, there'd be no need for a balance. Game, set, and match McNally!

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17 Dec '03

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ITARs and the Export of Classes and Methods
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:12 PM 4/30/96, Alex Strasheim wrote: >> Our Navigator 3.0 release will allow java and javascript to call into >> plugins. Since plugins are native code, you will be able to freely mix >> C and Java. Of course you will have to get the user to install your >> plugin on their disk. > >That's the problem, installing the plugin. > >I (and some others, I think) was hoping that it would be possible to build >powerful crypto applets and put them up on web pages. That way everyone >with a java enabled copy of Netscape could use a remailer or send crypted >mail without having to download, install, and configure software. > >If people have to download and install a plugin to use a java mixmaster >applet, why not just download and install a native mixmaster client? > >Of course there are other reasons to use java -- platform independence, >for example. But it's the user's ability to download and run applets just >by jumping to a web page that has everyone excited. With that gone (for >crypto), java loses a lot of its lustre (again, for crypto work). Hmmmhhh.... It may be--from the comments of Dan W. about the NSA, export, and Java, and from other signs--that the NSA and its allies see the same opportunities many of us see. And that they don't like what they see. I hope Marianne and the other Sun and/or Netscape folks can keep us informed on what, if anything, the NSA is telling them they can do with Java and what they cannot do. Under the guise of "export," of course, as there is no legal basis for restricting domestic (within the Greater Unites States and Canada Coprosperity Sphere) crypto. An interesting situation for the ITARs, if they try to restrict bignum classes, for example. A class-based system, if done correctly (in whatever language, e.g., C++ or Java), should have _most_ of the hard crypto work already implemented in classes and methods (for bignums, modular exponentiation, etc.), with the final crypto program much more easily implemented and exported. (I presume that PGP 3.0 is being done largely this way (class libraries), and, speculatively, PGP 4.0 might be Java-based, and rely on small applets calling the various classes.) Does the battle for restricting exports of programs, a la PGP or Lotus Notes, then shift to controlling the export of computer languages?! --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Former CIA Director and *Strategic Investment* Editor
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:11 PM 4/30/96, jim bell wrote: >I'd like to hear more about the timeline. From a snippet I heard yesterday, >he telephoned his wife and said he'd be renting a canoe. Okay, who and why >did "they" visit a cabin (?) to find him? (If somebody called me from a >cabin, and he had a telephone, I would not consider his failure to later >answer the phone to be particularly suspicious...) Then read the damned newspapers or watch the damned news broadcasts or read the damned Web news accounts, rather than mentioning that you've seen "snippets" but that you have other Unanswered Questions which They are Not Answering. Looking for conspiracies in the almost certainly accidental drowning of Colby is an even bigger waste of time than spending vast efforts trying to show that Vince Foster was killed by the O.T.O. Jeesh. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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by 53573730＠usa.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Why I dislike Java. (was Re: "Scruffies" vs. "Neats")
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:38 PM 4/30/96, Perry E. Metzger wrote: >Timothy C. May writes: >> SCRUFFIES AND NEATS IN SECURITY >> >> The "security neat" believes in applying rigor to security. Machines and >> languages should be "provably secure." (Better yet, machines should be >> "provably correct," a la Viper, and operating systems and languages should >> produce provably correct code.) > >Don't take this the wrong way, Tim, but you have totally >misinterpreted the position many of us who dislike Java take. You >completely mischaracterize our attitude. Perry, that essay was, as I said, sent out before it was finished. I did not even get to the part I was planning about classifying the Java supporters/detractors as either scruffies or neats! Now, while you may have _anticipated_ the point I was going to make in the completed essay, you cannot say I have "mischaracterized" anyone's attitude at this point! Unless you have a source of thiotimoline I'm not aware of. --Tim Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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