December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Strange Sounds of Silence
by tallpaul＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >Alan Pugh writes: >> Has anyone else out there noticed the strange sounds of silence >> emmanating from the american print and broadcast media concerning the >> rider attached to the Telecommunications Act recently signed by >> President Clinton known as the CDA (Communications Decency Act)? > No, actually I haven't. I do seem to observe strange sounds of silence from lib'bers on the cypherpunks list about the legislative body who passed the law, although they must know about the law since they blast the "libera;" to "socialist statist" President who signed it. I seem to observe similar sounds of silence from people who get upset at ostensibly liberal Tipper Gore's godlike powers to implement, as a single individual, some form of record labels while remaining silent about the conservative forces supporting Gingrich clustered around fundamentalist christianity who were calling for censorhip. --tallpaul

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Coderpunks archives on line
by Leslie Todd Masco 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I've placed the coderpunks archives up for viewing, reachable from the same page as the cypherpunks archives ( http://www.hks.net/cpunks/ ) - -- Todd Masco | "life without caution/ the only worth living / love for a man/ cactus(a)hks.net | love for a woman/ love for the facts/ protectless" - A Rich Cactus' Homepage - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMR5SUioZzwIn1bdtAQEpLQF/e4UQxQv4+XGwCt/wNQuCLtyFhfiJLyTF 8+oIS/+B2Ntp43+8xKIB36wcMhvC0vTE =y1HW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Regulation of citizen-alien communications (Was: Choices)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:01 PM 2/11/96, Dr. Dimitri Vulis wrote: >As I read it, a college professor might get busted for explaining his own new >crypto research to a class where some students happen not to be U.S. citizens. Considering that most engineering and computer science classses are approaching 50 percent non-U.S.-citizen, and considering that no such professors have yet been busted, I'm inclined to think this is a non-threat. (Indeed, it's a _potential_ threat, and one we should bear in mind, but it seems likely that no such prosecutions have occurred or will occur.) What we talk about every day on this list and the non-prosecution of any of us should be evidence about where the real emphasis is. (The investigation of Zimmermann and Goen was related to the appearance on foreign shores of a real chunk of code, PGP 1.0, and not simple communication with aliens.) >Of course we all know this already. Just some U.S. people prefer to ignore the >mote in their own eye and to fight censorship in exotic remote developing >countries. Do you remember how U.S. Gov't tried to prevent the publications of >research papers on zero-knowledge proofs? No, could you provide some details? Who was pressured? Micali? Goldwasser? Rackoff? Please share the details. There has been an ineffective "voluntary review" process for academic researchers, and perhaps this is what Dimitri is referring to. But this did not stop the publication of the ZKIPS work a decade or so ago. --Tim May Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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URLs for Anon remailers?
by lunaslide＠loop.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anybody got some good URLs for info on anonymous remailers for novices and experienced users alike? I need to know which are which so I can hand them out like candy to my .edu friends who aren't _as_ net savvy, but aren't dumb as dirt clods either. Much appreciated. lunaslide "Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - -- Abraham Lincoln On the meridian of time there is no injustice, only the poetry of motion creating the illusion of truth and drama. Henry Miller ________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCPAzEX3QEAAAEEAOGQjhnqGH29pO1WDaXs5GFOVPhCBWyYEk9XEwRmscjveWzH AhA6DeOA480zWNqQURyqE2yPmR8WzT+OXYqmeiQiycKyFA41Vs/Ruf+gXXxe7uXS L5BK3K8oKbfoH0D5/TAkMT4r6BprXFQz4pFc3gY2SSaSPElpMjKHaKBsRsyRABEB AAG0HUplZmYgQ29ubiA8bHVuYXNsaWRlQGxvb3AuY29tiQCVAwUQMRffHzKHaKBs RsyRAQGNhwP9E9xEZ9/LCKnhgtnrqgD7pDoXG2pCy8FoyfFjoImGkG+jF1wELXmB Z0mf8F8CgYkys0mif1XeGDMelr1gzlZAm6LgQt4kcvztMW/aRLn18QP+iwltVT/L p8D37mitOjvuk46sWgAChIaPPPIeg/EaYQjQkmlpWKsEYIoTRy+E8mU= =4Gku -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: Reasons in support of crypto-anarchy WAS Re: Why am I (fwd)
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:01 PM 2/9/96 EDT, E. ALLEN SMITH wrote: > Whoops. I didn't mean to send that one to the list (re: ethics of >assasination). Sorry. I am still trying to decide on whether other discussions >of the non-Crypto aspects of Assasination Politics are appropriate; I would >appreciate mail back from Perry in response to my email to him. > Sorry again, > -Allen If Perry is REALLY sincere about objecting to the NON-crypto part of AsPol, he should demonstrate this by writing notes which are focussing on the crypto aspects, rather than just complaining. Jim Bell

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Re: Strange Sounds of Silence
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I rarely understand the points "tallpaul" makes, but this one is especially confusing to me: At 7:59 PM 2/11/96, tallpaul wrote: >I do seem to observe strange sounds of silence from lib'bers on the >cypherpunks list about the legislative body who passed the law, although >they must know about the law since they blast the "libera;" to "socialist >statist" President who signed it. > >I seem to observe similar sounds of silence from people who get upset at >ostensibly liberal Tipper Gore's godlike powers to implement, as a single >individual, some form of record labels while remaining silent about the >conservative forces supporting Gingrich clustered around fundamentalist >christianity who were calling for censorhip. As a card-carrying "lib'ber," it seems to me that I have written more than enough articles denouncing the CDA, making fun of it and Congress, etc. And so have numeous other "lib'bers" on this list, including (but not limited to) Bill Stewart, Duncan Frissell, Jim Ray, Rich Graves, Sandy Sandfort, Vince Cate, and others too numerous to mention. tallpaul must be reading a different list than I am reading if thinks those he dismisses as "lib'bers" (in his other posts, and this one) are somehow in league with the Christian Right in supporting censorship. --Tim May [This Bible excerpt awaiting review under the Communications Decency Act] And then Lot said, "I have some mighty fine young virgin daughters. Why don't you boys just come on in and fuck them right here in my house - I'll just watch!"....Later, up in the mountains, the younger daughter said. "Dad's getting old. I say we should fuck him." So the two daughters got him drunk and screwed him all that night. Sure enough, Dad got them pregnant....Onan really hated the idea of doing his brother's wife and getting her pregnant while his brother got all the credit, so he pulled out before he came....Remember, it's not a good idea to have sex with your sister, your brother, your parents, your pet dog, or the farm animals, unless God tells you to. [excerpts from the Old Testament, Modern Vernacular Translation, TCM, 1996]

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Re: Strange Sounds of Silence
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"tallpaul(a)pipeline.com" 12-FEB-1996 00:47:35.36 >But I do not dismiss people as "lib'bers;" I merely call them that. I have >noticed that a large number of libertarians are fans of Rush Limbaugh and >chuckle a lot when Rush refers to women like Andrea Dworkin and her >supporters as lib'bers. I also find that the people opposed to Drowkin & >Co. are upset at her use of demagogic language, private dictionaries, and >the like. So am I, and started long before Rush got his TV shows. I am, >however, equally (if not more upset) by what I perceive as similar >demagogic etc. behavior by many libertarians. Large number of libertarians are fans of Rush Limbaugh? The last time I checked, Rush Limbaugh was basically a conservative populist like Pat Buchanan. While we may appreciate his comments re Andrea Dworkin (and others who want to restrict free speech on ridiculous grounds, and who believe nonsensical things like an inability to consent to sex), that doesn't mean we're fans of his. I like some of what Jefferson said, too, but that doesn't mean I agree with him on slave-holding (or on agrarianism). >Do they really have a right not to be styled "lib'bers?" No, I do not think >they have that right. Call us whatever you like. My problem with the term is that it's confusing. I doubt, for instance, that Rush Limbaugh is using it as an abbreviation for libertarian, although I'm not sure for what, if anything, it's a contraction. >I do not believe that all lib'bers are in league with the Christian right; >I am distrubed, however, by the large numbers of lib'bers who strangely >never mention the existence of the fundamentalists in the >ultra-conservative ultra-private-property camp. Yes, the fundys are in there. Politics makes strange bedfellows; work with whoever you can on whatever you can agree on. It's sort of like both our and CPSR's opposition to the CDA - CPSR has entirely too many desires to regulate private property (free net access et al), but we can still work with them on what we agree on. >I am equally concerned with some leftists who consider every example of >authoritarian behavior as "fascism" as I am with 'ib'bers who lump everyone >who argues for social responsibility as a "socialst statist." One >difference I see is that I am willing to criticize both groups while many >(but not all) lib'bers are again strangely silent at least the "statist" >side of the equation. Well, about 25% or so of libertarians are anarcho-capitalists, so far as I can tell. So of course they're going to find anyone who's advocating state control a "statist." They've agreed to disagree with people like me who aren't anarchists, but that's because we've got most other things in common. -Allen

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No Subject
by owner-cypherpunks＠toad.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:16 PM 2/13/96, Perry E. Metzger wrote: >I will repeat, Tim. You have no job and do nothing for a living. For >you it is probably hard to understand that some of us prefer to get >our mail segregated by topic so that we don't have to spend more time The issue of what I do with my time is a red herring. As it happens, many folks in the "cyberspace activism" spend as much time or more as I do on the Net. In any case, who cares how I spend my time? I also note that for several years Perry was clearly spending a whole lot more time than even I am now on the Net, making the "Top Ten Usenet Posters," or somesuch. I am sure that when Perry was a Shearson-Lehman, or Lehman Brothers, or whatever it was called, and was posting several articles an hour on Extropians, Cypherpunks, Libernet, Usenet, etc., that he would have roughly the same reaction I am now having to someone writing: "Perry, you are writing too much--some of us are trying to get some work done!" He would likely have dismissed their complaints as irrelevant, that no one is forced to read his articles. Likewise today. No one is forced to read my posts, Perry's posts, or anyone else's posts. This is what filters are for. As it happens, I do *not* read all of the posts here. In fact, I delete about 90% of them after scanning the first paragraph, the subject, and the author. Takes me about 15 seconds, tops, to do this, and sometimes I'm even faster. (Do the math: I can "dispose of" about 50 or 60 messages a day in 10-15 minutes...and this is about the best that can be hoped for, even if Perry were the moderator and the 10 or so messages a day that are truly off the wall were screened out...it just wouldn't change the basic time to screen all that much.) >than needed reading our email. However, for some of us, time is >money. I have failed to directly answer your comments on this sort of >thing out of deference to your "elder statesman" status around here, Spare me, Perry. As I mentioned, you certainly used to write a truly vast number of rants to Extropians, Libernet, and, yes, even Cypherpunks. A check of the archives will show this clearly. It is well and good that you apparently are now very busy and cannot write your customary number of articles. But spare us the insinuations (in several of your perrygrams) that because you are too busy to write you are doing critical work and because some of us use our time to write we are slackers. I write because setting down my thoughts and exploring ideas is far more important to me than just about anything else I can imagine doing, including writing C programs. If you don't like this, learn how to use filters and filter me out, or leave the Cypherpunks list. Seems simple enough to me. --Tim May >but this is getting silly. If you want to post about libertarianism, >libernet, so far as I know, still takes postings. If you want to read >about the habits of migrating birds, there are interest groups for >that. We don't have a lot of good places to discuss specifically >cryptography and its impact, and this group was set up *for that*. > >I mean, why not just have one mailing list for all topics of all sorts >if "filtering" and "hitting the 'd' key" are supposed to be the only >way we deal with this stuff, hmm? > >Perry Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: True democracy the electronic way
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:03 AM 2/15/96, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >1. this is an extremely interesting problem in my opinion. the ideal >form of government has not been achieved in many millenia. could it >be solved given the full power of the information age, i.e. ... >if anyone knows of >a mailing list to discuss this concept of trying to apply technology >to government, I would be most interested. the closest I can see You might try the "Cypherwonks" mailing list that L. Detweiler set up a couple of years ago to explore the very ideas you are supporting here. You might find you have a lot in common with him. --Klaus!, a tentacle Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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No Subject
by owner-cypherpunks＠toad.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Rich Salz (rsalz(a)osf.org) wrote: > Okay, so how the hell did Microsoft get export approval for this? They didn't.

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