December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Why There Exists No Middle Ground in the Crypto-policy Debate
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Why There Exists No Middle Ground in the Crypto-policy Debate [This message only appears to be posted anonymously, if you have the correct tools, you can learn my name and e-address. Take that auto-WWW indexers!] Decius <decius(a)ninja.techwood.org> recently presented an essay, entitled ``Crypto-Absolutism,'' which described ``Why and how the middle ground should be found in the crypto-policy debate.'' The essay is clearly wrong in its assumptions and thus its conclusions. Given the perceived flaws in the assumptions, his commentary must be rebutted. Within the context of this rebuttal, ``T-Camp Cypherpunks'' are those ``Cypherpunks'' (whatever they are :-) that follow a technology evolution-based line of reasoning to arrive at the inevitable coming of crypto-anarchy. As well, ``A-Camp Cypherpunks'' are those that advocate crypto-anarchy because they like the social and political implications. It is possible to be an A-Camp Cypherpunk or a T-Camp Cypherpunk without being the other. Of course, it is quite possible to be both. It has often been said on Cypherpunks, that ``we'' are not a ``we''. Decius falls into a trap by assuming that all Cypherpunks are in the A-Camp. This mistake colors the entire essay. The main problem with Decius' essay is that it assumes that Cypherpunks _merely_ advocate crypto-anarchy. In fact, T-Camp Cypherpunks do not stop at this puny point. They observe that crypto-anarchy is the _likely_ _outcome_ of the current technology trend (this trend is discussed below). Note that this observation of fulfillment, if correct, is a far stronger statement than merely advocating that crypto-anarchy should happen or would be a really good idea. A-Camp Cypherpunks also advocate that this trend should be exploited to its conclusion, sooner rather than later, to preempt any massive government crackdowns that would only prolong the transition pains. The rationale being that these supposed government crackdowns have no place in the natural evolution of a free society. And that the continuance of a free society is preferable to that of a move towards a police state, which would be required to facilitate the useless --- in the end --- crackdown on this information technology. Decius is also wrong when he states that crypto-anarchy means people will never again be accountable or recognized (pure A-Campers might like this to be true, although I doubt it). In the T-Camper's view, crypto-anarchy means that people have the choice of when they wish to be accountable and recognized for their statements and information movement-related actions and when they wish otherwise. People are not forced under the crypto-anarchy model to be unaccountable or unrecognizable. Likewise, the crypto-anarchy model allows people to ignore those that are unaccountable and unrecognizable, if they wish. Decius fails to recognize that people could be recognized, and even paid, for example, when operating under a pseudonym instead of completely anonymously (this concept links two Cypherpunks favorites: untraceable anonymous e-cash and anonymous reputations). As primary counter-points to Decius on this issue: - - The people who wrote the Federalists' Papers did so anonymously, yet I suspect that all were well-known and transacted business and other politics under their ``real names'' most of the time. - - Individual articles are anonymously published in the _The Economist_ yet I suspect that people are being paid to contribute information to this newspaper (at least, I know I am paying a lot per year, for a newspaper, to get the information :-). - - The recently released ``Primary Colors'' book by Anonymous. Yet this person, if the publisher is to be believed, is well-known to President Clinton (I think it may all just be a good marketing scam :-). Back to the main point of unstoppable --- in a free society, at least - --- technology trends. Decius has not, but must, account for the following change due to technology: Up until now, communication system deployers (e.g. The Phone Companies) have been basically blackmailed (through easily applied laws and licensing) into creating systems with backdoors for government's use. As system intelligence moves to the end-user devices away from the internal network devices and encryption moves to end-to-end encryption from link-based or non-existent encryption, this form of blackmail will no longer work since there will no longer be a small number of easily controlled entities building and deploying the systems. There will be open standards for the interconnect itself [IPng or whatever]. And anyone will be able to implement end-user devices that layer end-to-end encryption on top of the raw interconnect services provided by the new network model. In some ways, we have already arrived at the new interconnect model: the Internet based upon IP. In the form of today's computers, we also have a rudimentary incarnation of the required intelligent end-user device. In sum, I am a T-Camp Cypherpunk not because I necessarily think crypto-anarchy is a good idea but rather because the technology trend will continue to make it happen. I also happen to be an A-Camp Cypherpunk but it is for the reason that I am a T-Camper alone that I derive that there can be no compromise on the issue of crypto-policy. Not only would it be a bad idea to compromise, but also any compromise will fail due to continuing changes in technology that favor intelligence in the end-user devices and end-to-end encryption over intelligence in the internal network components and easily controlled encryption. It is better to see the technology trend and embrace it to prepare for the new crypto-anarchy to come. ~``Those that prepare for the change will have a lot of success, while those that ignore the technology trend in this area will be left behind.''~ Truer words have never been spoken. Regards, Loren -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMSGeTP8de8m5izJJAQFFrQP/ZQFu64mGC/u4YC7jAsnv22Cx3Eub+xVw i3IYX7aHJopfG3g6IVifaGuEJmHxF6mZDHj+YSS/9fQfHUm7QZtoXmgmvxgWpP3s KiUVLgYA3/cVfZn/6iOUHlQCehzj2N4IPdW2QGWbe2rbk1i1YaiGLpnB+RRXo4nW r7mKrSVOjOQ= =TIOb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Regulation of citizen-alien communications (Was: Choices)
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:24 AM 2/11/96 +0000, Ed Carp wrote: >> A foreign person is defined in S 120.11, and means anyone who's not a U.S. >> citizen. Technical data is defined in S 120.33 > >Oh? You mean that I can get busted for giving my Canadian spouse a copy >of PGP? A US *permanent resident* who is not a US Citizen is still a "US Person" for ITAR purposes. DCF

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Smart cards
by A. Padgett Peterson P.E. Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> The largest demand, though, will come from government agencies, like > Spain's Social Security Administration and the Czech Republic's > Healthcare Ministry. China, with a population of 1.2 billion, is > considering a national identification card using this technology, said > Waqar Qureshi, Motorola worldwide marketing manager for smart-card > chips. Been around for quite a while - expensive part is not the cards themselves ($1-$3) but the card *readers*. Warmly, Padgett

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Firewall USA to Firewall China
by A. Padgett Peterson P.E. Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Q: The Chinese government has declared its intention to filter out > what it considers to be objectionable material from the Internet. If > you were a consultant for the Chinese government, what technology > would you recommend that they use to do that? Multiple layers would probably do it: 1) Acces only to/from sites with which they have a formal agreement 2) Using secure channels 3) With good application filters (could be created - that I do not know of anyone who has is irrevelant - MIMEsweeper is a start.) Mostly it depends on how seriously they want to block certain kinds of traffic and what of the I'net's capabilities they are willing to give up to achieve that goal. Now before I get flamed again, please understand that I separate what *can* be done from what *should* be done. This is a "can" and is also considering the fact that a sovereign nation has the *right* to do this unless it gives up that right. A US company also has that right where it pertains to their property unless again they give up that right (see: common carrier). Warmly, Padgett ps wife informed me that when traffic backs up, it is ok to leave a hole for cross traffic to use but if you make any sort of gesture to indicate that is what you have done, *you* become liable for the cross traffic's actions. Absurd, no ?

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Communication
by A. Padgett Peterson P.E. Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim rites: >Logic lesson for Padgett: >There are at least three categories here: >1. Government restricts communication. >2. Government neither assists nor restricts communication. >3. Government assists communication. (through stolen tax dollars, BTW.) Oh, now I see where you are confused. To me there are at least six categories - the three you mention but in matrix form with two columns: Wholly inside the USA and from the USA to/from "elsewhere". (2) applies inside the USA and in some cases (3) - and tax dollars are not necessarily "stolen", the Constitution specifies that taxes may be levied for certain matters. (1) does not apply though through the rationale/excuse of "maximising the use for all" some regulations have been enacted primarily by the FCC. It is not improbable that the FCC's area of responsibility might extend to the Internet once considered a "national resource". Not saying right or wrong, just "could" & would not be surprised. In the case of communications with "other" entities, I expect all three to apply in different instances - what makes anon.penet.fi different from the L. A. Times. Now in the case of extra-National communications, I believe that in certain cases the Nation-state has not only the sovereign right of control but the obligation to control. For example just to pick a popular example, France might negotiate a trade agreement with the USA that included an agreement to block all PGP communications between the two countries. That would be legal. What the US does not really have is the *ability* to control communications. Warmly, Padgett

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Re: COO_kie
by Yanni 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> So, Folks, how does one manipulate the cookie in Netscape so that the > user can control what Netscape sees??? > > Michael E. Carboy > carboy(a)hooked.net Simple, read the cookie specs on the NetScape site. :) http://home.netscape.com/ -jon Jon S. Stevens yanni(a)clearink.com ClearInk WebMagus http://www.clearink.com/ finger pgp(a)sparc.clearink.com for pgp pub key My apologies for the loss of bandwidth. :-)

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Re: V-chips, CC, and Motorcycle Helmets
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> It makes me very wary of them. What gets me are all the people here who > talk about them as if they will have useful features. They will be about as > useful as the ratings on video games. ("Hey, theres a cool one! This one > has flying mangled bodies! Its OK though. No sex!") What's the line in the song "Father Bruce"? "The word to kill ain't dirty I used it in the last line but use a short word for lovin' and you wind up doin' time..." --- "Mutant" Rob <wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com> Send a blank message with the subject "send pgp-key" (not in quotes) for a copy of my PGP key.

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Re: Using /dev/random for PGP key generation? Be Wary
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:56 AM 2/12/96 -0500, rngaugp(a)alpha.c2.org wrote: >... >I am unsure about using my modification, together with these drivers >that are not connected to a real hardware RNG. In what way would the use >of these drivers' methods of gathering entropy be superior to PGP's >method of getting entropy from keyboard timing? If you choose to do >something like this, you should think carefully and make a careful study >of the code. If there are no common-mode sources, xoring two streams will not reduce the entropy. If you use PGP's keyboard timings for one stream, and (e.g.) disk drive randomness for the other, the output of the xor of the two streams should have at least as much entropy as the best of the two. However, I would be worried if /dev/random and PGP were both using keyboard timings to generate entropy. Bill

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Portland, OR, Key-Signing+
by Bruce Baugh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ANNOUNCING: THE SECOND QUASI-MONTHLY PORTLAND CYPHERPUNKS SOIREE AND KEY-SIGNING Yes, it's that time again. When: Saturday, February 26, 1996 come 4:30-5 pm to join those of us watching the new episode of MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000, or come 7:30-8 pm to avoid it Where: my apartment, in SE Portland e-mail me for directions This meeting is about to be announced in a bunch of local and regional newsgroups; I hope to get a crop of novices as well as the more experienced folks. A keysigning will take place, with instructions for it mailed out later in the week. I have a PC running Windows 95, and it'll be available for use in key verification and the like. If anyone has a portable computer with another OS to bring, please do. Proposed topics: 1) Alan Olsen is working on an e-mail client with PGP integration. Let's talk interface. 2) I'm working on a guide for crypto newbies. Come and tell me what works or doesn't. 3) So, just how lame is the Communications Decency Act, anyway? :-) 4) Whatever of crypto relevance is on your mind. Since there was confusion last time about expectations, let me spell out of a few things up. 1) Since some participants have expressed the desire not to be photographed, no cameras. 2) Insofar as others have other concerns, e-mail me. No guarantees on what we can do or not, but I'd like as many people as possible to be as comfortable as possible. 3) What's discussed during the soiree _will_ be fair game for comment later. Interesting insights, dramatic news, stunning rhetoric, the whole deal, may all be continued on the net later. There are, alas, some restrictions on partying tools, imposed by my chronic immune problems. If you smoke, a) please hold off if possible or b) take it outside and away from my door. (I have a nice back patio suitable for this purpose, since I never use it for anything.) I will have quite a variety of drinks on hand, but please, leave the alcohol at home. Ditto for any scents or perfumes you might usually wear. This way I get to have fun, too. :-) I really hate to add this particular paragraph (and it isn't in the version that'll get posted to newsgroups), but...one person won't be welcome. Jim Bell's conduct at the last meeting and on the list are such as to make it quite clear that I don't want him in my home. I won't send him directions. I ask that nobody else do so. If he shows, he will not be allowed in. I have no interest in hosting a get-together dominated by the perpetuation of an increasingly dull flamewar. (And if he can stop grinding the usual axes in the next two weeks, I'd be delighted to drop this.) The time and energy I, and other participants, have are too valuable to waste that way. (And if he thinks I'm being unreasonable, he is of course free to organize his own gathering.) [Note: I will not pursue this matter further on Cypherpunks. I needed to announce it; I don't need to sustain the flame fest.] Regards, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEQAwUBMSAW8X3AXR8sjiylAQHECQfRAVlw1MzEpCceLzxM3LbwuLwmSpgacLFi 8eUNFGNHis1xwpOvYpY/u/6WQXScI00oq/44euY8N6bzUxV6djbhIPR1jX+J0KrQ 2Dl8gZgaRNdo69nBabIt3gBG4OZzWiqX2g7YLOcr4I7rcNvCPn0SbaIayb5trgjh AWSVnC1g8gy17XBpAZMrLurgQQx0ul5CS0RreO6/Tpqy3P2V2ly0+k3k9p29RJly Y/Ug7KSYxirXUt07eeI8HCXzEtJ8DvN133Nwbos7WZvXitR5fzf0eXbxGSe7WXay KB0olIiWEi/r0q7xP8GdE07WcBzbXCfH5Uf6VPr9F34rig8= =p6BW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Bruce Baugh bruce(a)aracnet.com http://www.aracnet.com/~bruce

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Give it a rest Perry
by jdoe-agamemnon＠alpha.c2.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cpunks, On Mon, 12 Feb 1996 Ray Arachelian wrote: >I personally like reviews of messages that are posted regarding other >people's posts, however I prefer to read them in email. Cypherpunks >isn't for "this doesn't belong here" messages. :) I personally agree with him.

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