December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: PRZ encrypted voice software release imminent
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 15:59 8/11/95, Steve Bryan wrote: >Even without PGPFone I have thought for a while that computer based >telephony is getting ready to take off. Combining CallerID, customized >call handling, high quality speakerphone capability and a truly useful >personal directory (TouchBase Pro is too sluggish, but getting there) >there were already the ingredients of substantive usefulness. If you can >add in street maps fetched with an AppleEvent or even a QTVR enhanced map >then you get something that might make even an AT&T ad envious. Adding >complete privacy (relative to previous levels available) and possibly >authentication makes this a very big event. You will, and the company that will bring it to you...won't be AT&T. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred.

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Re: PRZ encrypted voice software release imminent
by cman＠communities.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Of course, if it was a substantial improvement over the other "Internet Phone" stuff that's out there, and had a good way of dealing with switching, etc., then people would use it to make "free" l.d. phone calls on the net, and the cryptography would get a free ride. Generally, you are right in suggesting that anything that requires people to crawl behind their computers, attach new cables, purchase and debug a sound card under Windows, and generally engage in techno-weenie hardware manipulations will have less appeal than something plug and play. Even given the extremely user-hostile elements of PGP the software, I would be surprised if PGPFone became as popular.

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No Subject
by Bryan Strawser 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a previous message, Timothy C. May said... > > What is your working definition of "nym server"? There have been discussions concernign this before both on here and other mailing lists, such as remailer-operators. A nym server is an operation similar to anon.penet.fi, but more secure. Sameer has two of these operating now that uses PGP encrypted reply blocks and such. [omega.c2.org and alpha.c2.org, both of which use different operating methods] What John is attempting to do is have a nymserver like anon.penet.fi, where folks can create an alias and send/recieve mail/postings to it. However, unlike Julf's system, a secure nymserver would prevent the owner from being able to divulge who the real-life person is behind the alias because of the PGP encrypted reply block and other options involved. Bryan -- Bryan Strawser, Gondolin Technologies, Bloomington, IN USA Remember Waco feanor(a)gondolin.org Live free or die

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Re: Nym Server Development....
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(I've removed these from this folllow-up: remailer-operators(a)c2.org, nyms(a)sephiroth.org, alt.privacy.anon-server(a)canaima.ME.berkeley.edu) At 2:04 AM 8/12/95, Bryan Strawser wrote: >John Fleming, along with a bit of support help from myself, is developing >a nym server that he is intending to release to the public once we are >satisfied with the performance and the state of the code. What is your working definition of "nym server"? >At this point and time, John has pushed the code to the point where we >have am experimental nym server operating that is being constantly >refined and features added. Along the same lines, I am presently >working on solid documentation for when the nymserver is ready for >public use, and for the later public release of the code. > >John created a mailing list for those interesting in contributing to the >development of his nymserver and as a forum for discussion of nymserver >related issues. So far, there have been few folks subscribed, and no >answer from those that are presently subscribed to the list. I find >this rather disappointing. Maye there's little interest because I can't find any threads that discuss just what a "nym server" is. I can make some guesses as to what _I_ might call a nym server, but there are some important issues (of who keeps the records, and why a nym server is better than just using unforgeable sigs, etc.) that need discussing. >that are running today. Just like the other types of anonymity out >there, a nymserver has many viable reasons for existance. The lack of >publically available code for such a server, as there is for remailers, >should motivate us to get behind John and his efforts. Why should we get behind an effort that has not been spelled out or discussed here? Maybe I'm missing the debate in the groups I deleted (see above), but I really don't know what it's about. >To subscribe to the nymserver development & discussion forum, send >a message to majordomo(a)sephiroth.org with the line "subscribe nyms ><your name>" in the body of the message. Questions about the >nymserver should be directed to that list so that all can be involved >in the development. Sorry, Bryan, but I don't typically join mailing lists so I can find out what the subject of a mailing list is! :-} Describe for us what you have in mind for "nym servers" and why they are important, then maybe more folks will get involved. --Tim May ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net (Got net?) | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-728-0152 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Corralitos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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SOW_gut
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

8-13-95. NYPaper: "Not-So-Lethal Weapons: Items from the police catalogue, coming soon to a precinct near you." Cops "have the same basic options when confronting a Rodney King," said David Boyd of the National Institute of Justice. "They can talk him into cooperating, beat him into submission or shoot him. If they had an alternative to a conventional firearm, they would probably buy it, chortle and club him harder." Law engorgement is emerging as a virtually untapped arena for high-tech tomfoolery. Out-of-work federal laboratories are cooking up new Trekkie weapons. N.I.J., the research honeypot of the US DoJ, has become a sort of Home Shopping Network for LEA's, taking their porky arms dreams to the desperado labs dreaming de Guerra Frio. The result: a host of goofy not-at-all-cheap Edsels and wipesnots: Sticky Foam (SNL); Rear-Seat Air Bag (IENL); Millimeter Wave Camera (LLNL); Smart Gun (SNL); Magic Fingerprinting Wand (Alaska State Crime Lab); Snare Net (Foster-Miller); Strobe Goggles (LLNL); Backscatter X- Ray Scanner. SOW_gut

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PERRY-GRAMS (Does Perry speak for Cypherpunks?)
by gjeffers＠socketis.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

PERRY-GRAMS (Does Perry speak for Cypherpunks?) I have a solution to the Perry off-topic problem: PERRY-GRAMS. I got this idea from the following text of Tim May's:. ----------------- start Tim May text --------------------------------- Perry is Perry. He has certainly written his share of rants and "off-topic" posts, as have we all. Literally thousands of his posts over the past 3 years reside on my disk drives, and certainly until recently most of them were not about writing code. --------------------end Tim May text --------------------------------- Firstly, what is a Perry-Gram? 1. Find a long Cypherpunk post by Perry that is in your opinion, "off-topic". Keep the header. 2. Add the full post of Perry's "Ciphergroupies" post which I have thoughtfully included at the end of this post. Include header. 3. Add text asking Perry to defend his off-topic post as appropriate to Cypherpunks. For true effectiveness, you really need to post several Perry-Grams per provocation. To be really effective, Cypherpunk "Ciphergroupies" will need to do a little networking. Most don't have much in the way of Cypherpunk archives - but some do. If you want to make some Perry-Grams but lack the archives, then post a call to Cypherpunks to have someone with archives to send you as many long, "off-topic" posts by Perry as they can. With a little cooperation, we can build up a data base of Perry "off-topic" posts. Unfortunately, my Cypherpunk archives were lost, so I won't be much help. - I am at a loss for Perry's words. However, a lot of Cypherpunks keep lots of old posts. I am willing to store at least one 1.44 meg diskette of Perry-Grams in compressed .zip format. Trade them like baseball cards. Of course, with computers, that's sharing :-). If you're having problems getting people with archives to help you, then contact Tim May. I suspect that Tim (Bless his Generosity) will be willing to dig up some potential Perry-Grams material for you. Treasure your Perry-Grams. They are not merely for the current Perry threads. If you save them, then you can whip them out in the future when Perry does more of his nasty, hateful "off-topic" attacks. I recommend Perry-Gram diskettes. I think this is the best way to bell the Perry- cat. Let Perry deny his own words! :-) :-) :-) Crypto relevance: Cypherpunks cannot be well described as just a list for techno freaks who love Crypto. I believe that most of the heavy crypto coders & theorists would be just as happy to be working on AI, linkers, natural language parsers, etc.. - were it not for POLITICAL CONSID- ERATIONS! I think most of the active people on Cypherpunks despise central political control & are active in order to stop it. Cypherpunks is motivationally driven by this political consideration. Perry did not spend $50k & "spend months of [his] life struggling to..." just because he thinks that computer crypto is "RAD KOOL". Then why drive out our polemists & our conspiracy buffs? Conspiracy theory is the theory of the working of states by non-establishment writers. Our political writers are "crying fire" when "danger of fire" is evident to them. They MUST give out the alarm. Most people are ignorant of the degree of danger that we are in from the power- mad illigitmate United States "Federal" State. Thank God for "extremist right-wing kooks" who do conspiracy writing. They may yet save us from establishment "left-wing Liberal kooks" who seem desperate to bankrupt us & turn America into a police state. Not that the Republicans are much better. They seem to be on a mission to cut Democratic spending by 5%. - As the Russians say "Prophylactic politics." - When there is public discontent with the elite's policies, give the people an insincere group of politicians to cater to the public's grievances. -------- start of Perry E. Metzger "Ciphergroupie" post ---------- Received: from toad.com by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzcct17133; Wed, 9 Aug 1995 21:53:27 -0400 Received: by toad.com id AA08720; Wed, 9 Aug 95 18:35:44 PDT Received: from panix4.panix.com by toad.com id AA08714; Wed, 9 Aug 95 18:35:40 PDT Received: from panix2.panix.com (panix2.panix.com [198.7.0.3]) by panix4.panix.com (8.6.12/8.6.12+PanixU1.1) with SMTP id VAA03975; Wed, 9 Aug 1995 21:34:13 -0400 Message-Id: <199508100134.VAA03975(a)panix4.panix.com> To: KALLISTE(a)delphi.com Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: Only 1/3 of Government Computers Down So Far In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Aug 1995 12:29:59 EDT." <01HTVAYUCH6W90PB08(a)delphi.com> Reply-To: perry(a)piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Date: Wed, 09 Aug 1995 21:34:12 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry(a)panix.com> Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk KALLISTE(a)delphi.com writes: > Many people are interested in cryptology because they don't > want the NSA (among others) invading their privacy. So, the question is this: do people want to follow the standard "ooh, lets shudder at the conspiracy theories" track, and fall flat on their faces, or do they want to see cryptography implemented and widely deployed? The noise levels on this list have driven most of the important crypto types off it. People like Phil Karn and Steve Bellovin, who actually implement stuff, aren't here any more. Instead, we have a vast flood of ciphergroupies who love to post the latest funny bit they found on the net, discuss whether David Koresh was being unfairly persecuted, and how many bits of toe lint they found last week. What we used to have was the cafe where the politically motivated cryptographers hung out and gossiped. Now we have an open sewer in which the occassional pearl still floats, and the cryptographers are mostly gone. Those of us who want to discuss cryptography here have been displaced. If your goal is to impede communication about cryptography, you've admirably succeeded. You've cut off one more place where people were discussing how to deploy real-world solutions. Tim May is wrong. I don't care what you call a "cypherpunk" -- thats your business. However, the useful people *are* the people who write code, spend long hours working to get standards implemented, work lobbying in Congress, etc. Those of you who just rant, like Tim, were very useful two years ago, but its getting rather thin listening to you guys make it impossible to discuss real work while you blather. (Sorry, Tim. However, as long as you are going to call me "abusive" I might as well speak my mind. If you are going to do the time, might as well do the crime.) > The Foster story concerns the chief NSA privacy-invasion of modern > times: spying on domestic banking transactions. So it's relevant. Actually, what you've been posting has been even below the standards of journalistic integrity (i.e. few) that you find on a Pacifica radio station. I don't even care if all the conspiracies are real. Isn't what is out in the open enough? If the invasions of privacy that the government acknowledges and the crap like Clipper that they try to foist on us isn't horrifying enough, what weak-assed conspiracy theory that someone came up with while tripping is going to do it for you. Reality is frightening enough. FINCEN is real. The NSA really spied on people at least until the congressional hearings in the '70s. The government really invades privacy every day. Why do I need crap? > The Grand Inquisitor role is getting a little old. So if > you want to continue to play it, my response is: Fuck Off. > > -Orlin Frankly, Orlin, I think you are, with respect to the goals we are trying to advance here, a useless lump of flesh. I've spent about $50,000 of my own money trying to make the internet safe for root-eaters like yourself. I've spent months of my life struggling to get RFCs out, and I'm spending most of this month locked in my apartment writing code. Right now, we are coordinating an effort to try to get get IPSEC widely implemented in the next several months and deployed by spring. What do you do, exactly, other than generate chaff to make it impossible for any real work to be seen on the radar? When people bring up real work, like cryptographic libraries or Wei's stuff or the work I've been doing in the IETF and that sort of thing people like Matt Blaze notice, and maybe Ray Cromwell and Hal Finney (cypherpunks both, not ciphergroupies) try to discuss things, but the folks like you basically drown everything out by making more noise about random conspiracy garbage. Frankly, if anyone is helping the NSA, its you. They don't want to see universally deployed crypto. You could be out trying to spread cryptography by coding, by handing people crypto when they need it, or any one of dozens of other things. Instead, what you are doing is making it impossible for people to try to get work done. I have no idea what you are like personally. Maybe you're a nice, smart guy. Maybe you are really a useful person in your other life. However, I don't think your posting more conspiracy tracts is improving life as we know it. You have become an impediment -- a lump of rock in the highway. You aren't part of the solution -- you are part of the problem. Perry ----------------end Perry E. Metzger "Ciphergroupie" post -------------- PUSH EM BACK! PUSH EM BACK! WWWAAAYYYY BBBAAACCCK! BBBEEEAAATTTT STATE! Gary Jeffers

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Re: PRZ encrypted voice software release imminent
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:59 AM 8/11/95 -0700, you wrote: >the requirements for live voice encryption are pretty significant: >a fast computer and fast modem. this alone is only a subset >of those people using PGP right now. The tradeoffs are speech encoding quality, and we basically crossed that line a year or two ago for the high end, and are heading toward mass capability. 9600 baud high-quality speech takes lots of crunching, 13.3 kbps GSM takes a Sparc 2 or maybe a Pentium, 16 kbps ADPCM is dirt trivial and can probably run on an 8086. The coding options with Nautilus run on 386s. And you can get by with less if you're willing to put up with half-duplex. Yes, lots of us aren't using modems faster than 14400 now, but you can get a 14.4/19.2 modem at Fry's for well under $100. (19.2 is unfortunately not quite enough to 16 kbps, given start and stop bits, unless you do synchronous or start playing with V.42 a bit, but it's close. Sound cards are down in the $50 range, and give you the analog/digital conversion as well as some computation. Adding a sound card is a bit of work, given the wonderful operating systems on many PCs :-), but folks put them in along with CDROMs so they can run all the latest multimedia applications, or high-end versions of DOOM. Anybody who needs to avoid government or business-competitor eavesdroppers can probably afford $150 in extra hardware for their PC. This doesn't apply to international communications or folks in the boonies, where it's hard to get full performance out of modems, so you Commie spies and Earth First!ers will need more expensive high-tech equipment :-)... #--- # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, Freelance Information Architect, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # Phone +1-510-247-0664 Pager/Voicemail 1-408-787-1281 #--- Storyteller makes no choice - soon you will not hear his voice. His job was to shed light, and not to master. RIP, Jerry

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Re: "S1" encryption system
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Carl Ellison <cme(a)TIS.COM> > Has it already been observed that the key scheduling repeats keys every > 5 rounds? There have been a couple of good messages on sci.crypt, one by Colin Plumb and one by Thomas Jakobsen. The latter mentioned something similar re key scheduling. I hadn't noticed it. Chalk up another apparent weakness. Hal

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Purple Boxes
by an264373＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> it would be called the "purple box" because I have not heard > of any other devices called "purple boxes" (i.e. this string > in the "colorful" hacker namespace does not seem to be used up yet) > and also the famous WWII compromised japanese diplomatic codes > were called Purple. Actually quite a few hackers/phreaks have been encrypting phone conversations for a while. Not by any complex mathematics but simple modifications to the phone frequencies...Don't have any sites handy but for those interested I'll look up some of my old material. I'll also check a large compendium of boxes to see if Purple has been designated. Anyone interested in box plans of different colors e-mail me. Sauroth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. If you reply to this message, your message WILL be *automatically* anonymized and you are allocated an anon id. Read the help file to prevent this. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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Re: EU Data Protection
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:13 PM 8/11/95, Derek Bell wrote: > I think you miss an important point; your opinion is subjective, but >data can relate to objective facts (e.g. credit records). Would you take the >same stance if a credit bureau claimed that you couldn't pay back half the >loans you took out? Any entity which purports to hold or provide "true" information but which hold flaky or incorrect information will suffer. This is true of credit agencies, advice columns, restaurant reviews, movie ratings, book reviewers, doctor rating agencies, and so on. I won't get into all of the aspects of reputations, but this is what we're talking about. And I'll concede that not all of these examples are equally important, or use the same objective quality of data. A credit rating agency is no doubt more important than a movie review agency--though arguably the damaging effects of Siskel and Ebert trashing "Waterworld" can be many orders of magnitude more than TRW Credit having an incorrect bad debt recorded. The point is that we do not have government to maintain the accuracy of movie reviews, of lawyer ratings, and so forth. Even if one accepts the "Fair Credit Reporting Act" (a U.S. law which I think is unconstitutional, as it tells me I cannot report certain kinds of facts), the European-style data privacy laws are a further step in a wrong direction. Think about it: the name "data privacy" sounds good, at first blush, but what it really means is that my records are not private, that my records are inspectable by government agents to see if I have stored any illegal facts or correlations. > What worries me about the *lack* of some form of data protection >legislation is that is allows someone to build up a database of information >which is a mishmash of truth, misunderstandings and lies. How would you feel if >"Concerned Citizens against Cryptography" compiled a list of all members >of this list, branding them as `dangerous, possibily criminal subversives'? Things like this happen all the time. This is just an opinion they happen to have. Would you make it a crime for "Concerned Citizens against Cryptography" to do a "who cypherpunks" of this list and to think we are "dangerous, possibly criminal subversives"? In the U.S. such judgements are made all the time. Doesn't make the judgements right, but rightness is not the basis of the freedom to hold and express these beliefs. >What if that opinion was spread to other databases? How about the police >investigating you because of this kind of database? "Spreading" the opinion to other databases is no big deal. The police investigating is a separate issue. Many of us think the police should be very careful about investigating for beliefs and opinions, but, in fact, it happens all the time. (It's happened to me, for example.) --Tim May ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net (Got net?) | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-728-0152 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Corralitos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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