December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Prime Number Gen's.
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There are algorithms for producing provable primes which don't take too long. However they do not work to prove a given probable prime is actually prime, rather they generate a prime. One was described by Mihailescu Preda, <zhmhd(a)zh014.ubs.ubs.ch>, on sci.crypt on December 13, 1993. It is not clear whether this kind of algorithm is suitable for RSA (where the primes must be kept secret) since it could reduce the space of primes which are produced. Hal

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Re: Only 1/3 of Government Computers Down So Far
by KALLISTE＠delphi.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perry, Many people are interested in cryptology because they don't want the NSA (among others) invading their privacy. The Foster story concerns the chief NSA privacy-invasion of modern times: spying on domestic banking transactions. So it's relevant. The Grand Inquisitor role is getting a little old. So if you want to continue to play it, my response is: Fuck Off. -Orlin

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Crypto = Competitive Advantage?
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Note to Mr. Bill - I was watching CNBC this morning while reading my mail and they had a story on the Netscape Communications IPO (ticker NSCP btw). Some analyst said when asked whether Microsoft couldn't just wipe them out that the most important part of Netscape's product was that it offered end-to-end encryption. He said that this was important for the growth of the nets and was something that people wanted. DCF "Competitive Advantage - Markets vs Politics - in a market your customers go out of their way to give you their money, in politics the 'customers' go out of their way to keep from giving you their money."

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Re: Trouble accessing archive with Netscape
by cactus＠hks.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article <199506281259.AA03051(a)bear-gate.bear.com>, David Mandl <dmandl(a)bear.com> wrote: >> From: shamrock(a)netcom.com (Lucky Green) >> >> Am I the only one that has problems accessing the archives using Mac >> Netscape 1.1N? > >I had the same problem. (And Tim reports the same). Huh. Since I only use lynx and arena, I haven't seen this. But I'll take y'all's word for it. Since I'm about to toss hypermail out the window and replace it with my own code (that I'm working on anyway for a consulting gig -- one of the benefits of running the archives is having a test-bed for large archives), you can reasonably expect the problem to go away in the not-too-distant future. I'll probably ask for people to test the new HTML when it's ready. - -- Todd Masco | "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've cactus(a)hks.net | constructed." - Darth Vader Cactus' Homepage - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMCj7BSoZzwIn1bdtAQEVRgF5AXaw25/1H4dfrGGuCtNhXm4wg23f9nnR q8HOzsnbVkznKal8wtzvgblofYtjekTK =ZC4N -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Over 350 'Munitions T-shirts' Shipped
by dhenson＠itsnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Where are mine...I got the money to you via >Mario wojo???? at SUN... >I ordered 8 of the shirts Sorry. I show no order for anyone named Goen, no orders from anyone named Mario, and only one order from anyone at Sun. Are you sure you ordered from me or did you order from Joel? (Who I understand has been a bit slow in filling his orders.) If you want to order from me, I have included email and USnail ordering instructions at the end of this message. >BTW >I am the publisher of PGP 1.0 the only person >who will be indicted with Phil or alone for PGP >what about MY defense fund???? I'm not in the business of setting up defense funds. If you have one, I would be happy to publicize it. Send me your story. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- MUNITIONS TSHIRT ORDER INFO (That you requested) Either cost only (UK), or 25% proceeds to Phil Zimmermann (US). We now have 2 suppliers, one in the US (WEPIN, for US & Canadians only), and one in the UK (Adam Back) for the 'free world', you know places like Europe (with the strange exception of France), Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Japan, etc, etc. If you are a citizen of and living in the US or Canada: =========================================================================== US orders (25% of proceeds to the Phil Zimmermann legal defense fund): http://colossus.net/wepinsto/ (It's all set up for WWW forms, you can use VISA, M/C, or personal check to buy on-line, or you can order via PGP-encrypted email.) Tshirts are black 100% cotton Beefy-T with white printing. On the front of the shirt are the words 'RSA encryption in perl'. Below that is a perl script that implements the RSA algorithm for arbitrary keylengths. Below that is a machine-readable barcode of the same perl script. On the back of the shirt are the words 'WARNING This t-shirt is a munition' along with the ITAR and USC references that make it a munition that is illegal to export. You can see a mockup of the design by pointing your Web browser to the URL http://colossus.net/wepinsto/wsft_f/wspp_f/tshirt1.html. Here's the prices, but order through the web page if you can, all on-line, Tshirts only (no sweatshirts), and only in black: Large: $15.95 X-Large: $15.95 2X-Large: $17.95 3X-Large: $19.95 No tax, shipping, or handling charges. Just send a message (PGP encrypted recommended - see my key below) to dhenson(a)itsnet.com with your desired shipping address, the quantity of each size that you want, and total amount of the order along with payment info. (See below, after my PGP key, for what info you need to include.) MAKE YOUR CHECK OR MONEY ORDER PAYABLE TO 'ALH'. It is also a good idea to include your telephone number and email address in case there are questions about your order. (All this plus payment info can be sent via the Web page.) You can send Visa/MasterCard info and personal check info in email or via the Web page order form. If you want to pay any other way, you will have to send your order via USnail to: West El Paso Information Network (Tshirt) 6112 N. Mesa #218 El Paso, Texas 79912 Here's my PGP public key (use to encrypt your order). Don't forget to remove the '- ' at the beginning and the end of the block. - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAy8G5lIAAAEEAKT/Hd5q2dqyyLbvE/I+GnmuxV+u79lrCAcw8fWxzi1vVQwS bKF8DjGO+xnPdZAdryPUJoS8yitmc/pE1wFmNWeunCImu81gxhpphgbnq8/nm8/c 3q1i4/0QlofxWphxhFF3b7zQMzS7iiFZL5x7Rget5aRaWnKE855C4hMDAC3JAAUR tCZEb24gSGVuc29uLCBXRVBJTiA8ZGhlbnNvbkBpdHNuZXQuY29tPokAlQMFEC/w ROBsRrMZUt3z9QEBnWsEANW9SUj1ompT0lAiu0Ihu+SREgoqmbmM/eeDn2ddY49C ojDdfdmHKRhifLsNq/HXEvbtNhu2T2kti6kRRuU8jp0ACBkpMeB9A/yuLFTnzjkO 9/p9xOGSR3ycvOfarvVjVQo0JMAQPodL6n1OuS/AXlRe6R29sAm2gvEnLMXwG/II iQCVAwUQL+8x1r2wdU1ev5p9AQGG2AP9GS/kpmQENj3C5eAZmMGocDvR49+/y++k LGyY7Bt0SK0kFQLrInEun/4QESzWbZ4wA7uXAEsxoy+wXepWqm/gMTND/pAhzTSH ykSEM2aPxYdnrkmE/5kKsynq7R06NgY5ishLyxL5HwauYvqerKcr1vfgaO9FbQnG 3Vk7zXozmeOJAJUDBRAvVOm/Vcp0KbCAaB0BATZPA/96ingb1PGTtPHGfb5tFmfk KLcxBnDvqhHm4fVxuo+QbdHDsw2HXdXjLw053Ae7Hx/lpwf9NRfpLliiR39JCARJ 5KB94TMKhHrxAaicN7wuqrbmsnQgthNN4svC1QbSSQ08r/HJnAyeTk71RgHf7Aq0 MPFDEh7wyJhT27zq/831JLQWV0VQSU4gPHdlcGluQHNnaXIuY29tPokAlQMFEC8G 52h8y4XkPC4ZpQEBkE0EAJxxVkO4ApzO7tO2Drvbipve5bjNOEvNnpzA+5F7lnLF WddBMsP3C5V8IQ/gituSVDMfhp/D/1nD6FnJ1sP+LM2SF/wRbL6exuAG0Z74PLTf 2UGUzc8/cP3Q/imxXj77voi0Q0UVC1M5SzvlsGFr8I0W6meUJqSH0a4AYUf3WMKm iQCVAwUQLwbmwp5C4hMDAC3JAQGsZgQAhnFNMDh9TJmbv5O9Y7KXUkYhKXFX2kFZ p0Czx2t/94A0O9XQeRFBrGimrbRm095s+T+CJ/9C2J+AyV8heOUOGknq4d+1HTWa GlTo/2Zu3Lh0bml7l1ovbE28O7VjMu9lBiz+X6bgccHs5YyanNLyWIYF/xDgrCkl KMN4oOFjrSU= =xL+f - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- If you're not a US or Canadian citizen or permanent resident living in the US or Canada, use the UK shirt offer below. PAYMENT INFO YOU NEED TO INCLUDE IN YOUR EMAIL ORDER: VISA/MASTERCARD 1) Name on the card (exactly as it is printed on the card): 2) Card Type: (Visa/MC) 3) Card Number: 4) Card Expiration Date: PERSONAL CHECK If paying by Telecheck, please follow these instructions carefully and double-check all your entries for accuracy and completeness. Please note that the check must be drawn on a U.S. Bank. First, take out your checkbook and write a check (made payable to 'ALH') just as though you were going to mail it to us. Don't forget to enter the information in your check register. Use the check you have written as the source of the information we will be asking for below. The first item of information we need is the name or names printed on the check. Include all spaces, commas, periods, etc exactly as printed on the check. (For example, if there is a period after the initial, use it . . . if no period, don't put one in.) If it is a joint account, include the joint name also. Name(s) EXACTLY as it appears on your check: Check Number: Dollar Amount: $ Bank Name: Bank Address: Bank City/State/Zip: Across the bottom of every check is a series of funny-looking (MICR) numbers. These numbers include the routing codes for the bank, your account number, and the check number. There are also some non-numeric symbols. Just leave a blank space in the number where these symbols appear. Also include a blank space where there is a blank space in the number. After you have entered the numbers from left to right, it is a good idea to double-check them from right to left. (It's easier to catch mistakes this way.) MICR Numbers: (Double-Checked) Enter any comments that you would like to have appear on the check as memo: If you are NOT a citizen of and living in the US or Canada: =========================================================================== Free world: printed in the UK for shipping to anywhere http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/uk-shirt.html Cost only (estimated cost, if there is any change, it goes to the PZLDF also) If you're in the US Don's offer is going to work out cheaper. (If you're a foreign national living in the US or Canada you should order through this option as it would be illegal for Don to sell to you) My prices are (all in UKP): Prices inclusive of UK postage, and packing, see below for overseas postage T-shirts only 2 sizes available: Large (L), and Extra Large (XL), both the same price: 8 UKP Sweatshirts only 2 sizes available: Large (L), and Extra Large (XL), both the same price: 14 UKP Overseas postage: Add 0.75 UKP per shirt for Europe Add 1.50 UKP per shirt for US & Canada Add 2.00 UKP per shirt for Australia, NewZealand, South Africa or other I will accept payment in UK currency cheques or UK cashable money orders, or if you want to risk cash in the post, UK cash or US cash (you bear risk). I CAN'T take credit cards etc, as I'm just a student, and don't have facilities for this kind of thing. So you'll have to use cheques/cash as described above. (The costs are estimated because it is impossible to get a firm quote without knowing how many to order, which I can't know until I have the orders, so if works out cheaper due to higher volume than expected and there is any change left over, I will forward it to the Phil Zimmermann legal defense fund). My snail address is: Adam Back South Blagdon Farm Thorndon Cross OKEHAMPTON Devon UK EX20 4NJ Please make sure to include: - your email address in case of query - your snail mail address - details of choice of T-shirt or sweat-shirt and size (L or XL) - payment Adam Here is my PGP public key, if you feel the need to say anything financially related, or prefer secure email (you'll need to edit off the leading "- " which my PGP signing the whole mail has added, before you feed it to PGP): - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2i mQCNAiwUXUEAAAEEAJnWEHE3juLAyMnEt3hrID3t8tblJvJPfoPz4Plg+2a5y4HA TonXBomkhm8hrRu1umruUUaeW1mxIbpvP413a2JyU7pdyfyoFVpWW5iT9pXYOgSW 65d+5GWe4g4PLrSbJZPBFIezd8xddnx5+5hbRk1K6UpfReQuOynIuJ1VakpnAAUT tBxBZGFtIEJhY2sgPGFiYUBkY3MuZXguYWMudWs+iQCVAwUQL9gNKSnIuJ1Vakpn AQHH6AP/T7dwXid03U7UM2/QzU+y6F4kHrGBuvJcyJewWbEb16ItkMngjzXP47kx gZygR4MWXsyQlvE2inSYzRJ3L+6ftaPvX8JsvVCll7JIejfmNGZYSWw9E/vPi/ls aa+pN3WqPxnzpwr8PL6b8w1fZZ47antgdZlOXgGO+hRbWV7zPcc= =KGUk - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMBebrp5C4hMDAC3JAQHXgwP/RSnLZgJiDMEa13b4Ccq0/iwaep2WXzRt ev5zoZG8oItXYp+Rtm1WeIoOucxLR3k5y0qQKnIEYYhBixnWMU8Xo/ySLvjN8x6t UU+Jbx802vPIRfXB99nuXdzvEsXAjB0ceyzg0iRYaOG3BI4AjFdGnsO6LwU1W1d1 6ctLmgR759k= =PZUo - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMBecOZ5C4hMDAC3JAQHQgAP9GPs/v5JV6aEAQvKTi+YcO6/5IeOMzu/y wF17l4CBSCj3tB4XRA4cOCyZgrPXnaIvGzJztKzxcRPxhFkZM4sjvOQA13uGTH/w YG1yN04FMZ7SsjErOHAvpm3W/S1RwLxOHVfucIoXcnFi2sRUZndfV/Kb3s0a8Ztk BhlrLCZG164= =/gvS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Don Henson, Managing Director (PGP Key ID = 0X03002DC9) West El Paso Information Network (WEPIN) Check out The WEPIN Store at URL: http://colossus.net/wepinsto/wshome.html

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Re: Crypto = Competitive Advantage?
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 2:17 PM 8/9/95, Duncan Frissell wrote: >Note to Mr. Bill - > >I was watching CNBC this morning while reading my mail and they had a story >on the Netscape Communications IPO (ticker NSCP btw). Some analyst said >when asked whether Microsoft couldn't just wipe them out that the most >important part of Netscape's product was that it offered end-to-end >encryption. He said that this was important for the growth of the nets and >was something that people wanted. As long as the Netscape IPO topic has come up... A former member of our list, Marc Andreessen, just became worth $70 million or so in today's IPO. (IPO = Initial Public Offering, or "Internet PGP Offering") Personally, I think this valuation of Netscape at a few billion dollars is way too high. They've got a leading product, which most folks have gotten for free, and they've signed a bunch of corporate deals. But a few billion for a brand new company? ...and who knows how many of their sudden multimillionaire developers will now leave...? Crypto could be the next big wave of IPOs, with "Verisign" and "RSADSI" both rumored to be offered. Some of the digital commerce companies may be next. It seems that anything involving the Internet, the Web, and digital commerce is really, really hot. --Timothy C. May, President, Bank of the Web Special note: My ISP has changed its domain name from "sensemedia.net" to "got.net" (as in "got milk?"), so I have to again ask you all to bear with me and use my new e-mail address, "tcmay(a)got.net". ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net (Got net?) | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-728-0152 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Corralitos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Bank Fees and E-Cash
by Black Unicorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - - - Bank Fees and the E-cash Niche. Banks have gorged themselves on rocketing fees for the last five years. The result is that typical bank customer currently pays 150% of the amount of interest collected on accounts in a given year in the form of fees. My prediction, and my hope, is that e- cash will cut through the pretense upon which the rationalization of many of these fees is based, and even market itself on this point- Lower Fees. - - - New Fee Schemes "Overdraft Assistance" and the Myth That Only Irresponsible Bank Customers Bounce Checks or Overdraft. Banks have begun to implement policies intended to help the customer overdraft. They may, for example, cash the largest checks first such than an overdraft will hit with several small checks rather than one or two large ones causing multiple overdraft fees. Banks have begun to routinely delay crediting checks for 48 and 72 hours, and out of state checks for anywhere from 3-14 business days. ATM cash deposits are typically subject to 24-48 hours delay. The "Unofficial Credit." Many times the delays in crediting various transactions are hidden by the "unofficial credit." Most noticeable in ATM deposits, a credit is given but should demands on the account draw into the "unofficial credit" an overdraft will be posted on the rationale that an "official credit" has not yet been posted and the funds are thus not "officially" available, this despite the fact that the funds will appear available to ATM balance requests and statements. Of course the bank will profit from the "unofficial credit" to "official credit" interest float regardless of what overdraft fees might be charged. The "wire credit" and "official wire credit" are another example. Banks receive a wire transfer on Monday, send a "electronic payment advice" the same day, but post the credit to the account "officially" on Tuesday. The original intent is for the bank to be able to take advantage of the interest "float" between the receipt of funds and its credit to the account. The result is an additional overdraft potential. The Separate Wire Office Hours. Often times the bank's "wire" office will close hours before the branch closes. Wires received some hours before closing on Friday will not be credited until the following Monday. The ATM Processing Time Table. Many bank only begin processing ATM deposit transactions an hour before closing, crediting only as many deposits as can be processed in this time, the remainder are not processed until the next morning. ATM debits are, of course, processed all day. Check Processing Time Table. In a given day, debit checks are processed on an account before deposit checks are processed. Obviously, an account that overdrafts overdrafts only because of the order in which checks are processed. - - - The Created Convenience Fee A great many bank fees fall into what I call "created convenience fees." Really created convenience fees resemble airport customs bribes in third world countries. The customs officer makes what should be an easy passage terribly difficult, then demands a "fee" to make travel as easy as it should have been to begin with. The net effect is for the traveler to pay to dispense with a problem created by the party receiving the fee. Nigeria is a prime example. Upon arrival the average traveler will find him or herself embroiled with licensing deficiencies, visa fees, entry fees, the threat of quarantine, seizure of expensive equipment for "inspection" and other such invented requirements. Some hours into the "negotiations" the customs official will offer to "overlook" these transgressions for a "fee." This is a created convenience fee. Banks fall into this category by such programs as "overdraft insurance" whereby banks enact policies which, as we have seen, make it painfully easy to overdraft and then charge a monthly fee to avoid the overdraft charges. - - - The Result Bob is a sort of combination of my own experience and discussions with other bank customers in D.C. Bob has an account in Washington, D.C. with $1500.00 in it. Bob Receives a wire at 3pm Friday for $1700.00 Bob writes five checks on Friday, one for $1400.00, one for $200.00, one for $150.00 and two for $100.00. Totaling $1950.00. Bob deposits 4 checks totaling $2000.00 in the night depository Saturday. Bob deposits $50.00 in cash in an ATM on Saturday Night. Bob checks his ATM balance ($3250.00) and withdraws $50.00 from an ATM on Sunday Morning. Bob's wire arrives after the wire office has closed for the day - an "unofficial credit" is posted Friday before closing anyhow. Bob's bank processes the $1400.00 check first, leaving Bob's account with an "official" $100.00 and $1700.00 in "unofficial funds." Bob's bank processes the $200.00 check, notes a $100.00 overdraft, charges $25.00 for this check, refuses payment on the remaining three checks and drops a $25.00 overdraft fee plus a $10.00 "bad check" fee for each. Total charges: $130.00 Bob's bank processes the $50.00 ATM withdrawal, which overdrafts. $25.00 fee is posted. Total fees so far: $155.00. Bob's balance for the majority of Monday: -$255.00. Bob's bank begins to process deposits, notes all the checks for deposit, $1000.00 of which are out of state. No checks are credited. Bob's bank notes the ATM transaction at the end of the day on Monday, but does not credit it immediately despite the fact that it is cash. Bob's bank credits the ATM deposit to Bob's account on Tuesday. Bob's balance is now -$205.00 Middle of the day Tuesday, Bob's account has been below its required minimum $500 balance for 24 hours. A $50.00 fee is charged. End of the day Bob's wire is "officially" credited - a $10.00 fee is charged for receiving the wire. (No, I'm not kidding) Bob's bank credits the $1000.00 of in state checks on Wednesday Finally, on Friday, Bob's out of state checks are deposited. Bob will likely be liable for $50.00-$75.00 fees for each of his bounced checks as vendors will probably charge hefty fees. Telecheck will have Bob on the 10 most wanted list for $350.00 in bounced checks. Bob's check writing ability is about nil in D.C. for the month it will take him to clear it up. Bob gets a mailing a week later telling him of the advantages of his bank's newest "overdraft insurance" program. $150 a year. Bob, for what would literally be a series of very responsible transactions, is looking at over $215.00 in bank fees, and at least $150 in bounced check fees from vendors because of violation of technical rules the bank has designed to cause fees to be charged. - - - E-Cash I cannot believe that e-cash won't be able to solve some of these problems, and I hope it will limit its own fees to usage. To me this is a classic argument for small house e-cash shops. Citibank and Mastercard are going to fight for their fees. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMClJUS1onm9OaF05AQEhugf/T2FquzHdEhHp8dQI5FRYcuayTusig1F3 pHejUdry84F1MqLArSZukVGxEWtZVR0qh2xq4AiN/UwlW9ZKasFdbPPGJtbD6gpO aALJIhQaYJSTQkW4fmieejhcNPMf7e59YaerOl83LkKS/+1tFi9ib1Xz2ZnmXlph 0mWuJjONzH45tPylyJy8fyB9nrpk5WDCAiLhUSxqHRdVmA9nq6uIIZbdmz7sEpLq 82cHyHXKeufGKGvx26R4z3lu0o5Ykd/dGAWADpJ6OT2bhlWFinApF/HMJAA9mLvi w70StZZL/94ncQQWF7LU5vMhGu7/5WNsrpRTzZXG5A0EfFL0ZAdYPw== =ew58 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 00B9289C28DC0E55 nemo repente fuit turpissimus - potestas scientiae in usu est E16D5378B81E1C96 quaere verum ad infinitum, loquitur sub rosa - wichtig! *New Key Information* - Finger for key revocation and latest key update.

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PGP at work?
by Rick Busdiecker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sorry for the FAQ. Really, I've spent the last hour scanning the distributed docs and hopping around to different web pages looking for this info. What constitutes ``commercial use'' of PGP? I could swear (if I were a theist :-) that I'd seen some sort of statement from RSADSI, PKP and/or MIT that it is ok to use PGP for mail at work providing that the *purpose* of the mail is not commercial. Could someone confirm or deny this, preferably with a reference? -- Rick Busdiecker Please do not send electronic junk mail! net: rfb(a)lehman.com or rfb(a)cmu.edu PGP Public Key: 0xDBD9994D www: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/rfb/http/home.html send mail, subject "send index" for mailbot info, "send pgp key" gets my key

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Re: Only 1/3 of Government Computers Down So Far
by sbryan＠maroon.tc.umn.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:29 pm 8/9/95, KALLISTE(a)delphi.com wrote: >Perry, > Many people are interested in cryptology because they don't >want the NSA (among others) invading their privacy. The Foster story >concerns the chief NSA privacy-invasion of modern times: spying on >domestic banking transactions. So it's relevant. > The Grand Inquisitor role is getting a little old. So if >you want to continue to play it, my response is: Fuck Off. > >-Orlin I'm thankful that someone can occassionally (or even always) point out that the messages are getting rather far from what is considered the main topics of the list. This is a very high volume mailing list, at least three times as high as anything else I try to read. I didn't subscribe to a conspiracy buff list but it is not my intention to go out of my way to insult anyone here. But there are lists (aren't there?) for people who find such speculation interesting. +---------------------------------------------------------------------- |Steve Bryan Internet: sbryan(a)maroon.tc.umn.edu |Sexton Software CompuServe: 76545,527 |Minneapolis, MN Fax: (612) 929-1799 |PGP key fingerprint: B4 C6 E2 A6 5F 87 57 7D E1 8C A6 9B A9 BE 96 CB +----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Crypto = Competitive Advantage?
by Andrew Loewenstern 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jason Weisenberger writes: > > Apparently the opening price was doubled very shortly before the > IPO > (late yesterday afternoon) from $14 to $28. By lunch-time > (in NYC), > shares were trading at $72. > > Amazing aint it - a moron girl at Goldman Sachs of course told me > I was crazy and anyone who felt Netscape was going to go over the > top was a moron. It may have "opened" at $28, but the first bid was $71 and now it's trading at $50something. Not quite so spectacular as at first glance... So unless you shorted it or were an insider it wasn't such a hot thing (so far). Quarterdeck is probably a better buy. ob crypto: the "top secret" source just posted looks interesting... 64-bit blocks, 80-bit keys, 32 rounds hmmmm.... andrew

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