December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

good news about the EFF...
by Lile Elam 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This might be of interest: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 17:04:23 -0800 From: Brock N. Meeks <brock(a)well.sf.ca.us> To: cwd-l(a)cyberwerks.com Subject: CWD Changes in the Wind At EFF CyberWire Dispatch // Copyright (c) 1994 // Jacking in from the "Back to the Future" Port: Washington, DC -- The Electronic Frontier Foundation has fired its Policy Director Jerry Berman and will soon release a sweeping new agenda for 1995 that promises to return the organization to its original grassroots beginning. Asked to comment on his firing, Berman bristles and says: "I think that's baloney." Then he quickly adds: "Did you ever think I might have wanted to leave?" Berman has, in fact, left EFF, to head a new, as yet unannounced, policy group called the Center for Democracy and Technology. His departure from EFF and the creation of CDT will be made public this week in a joint announcement with EFF, sources said. The official line that will be spun to the public is that the two came to a "mutual parting of the ways." That benign statement, however, doesn't reflect the long hours of the behind the scenes deliberations, in which the language of the press releases will be a cautiously worded as an official State Department briefing. Heroes and pioneers always take the arrows; EFF lately has looked more like a pin-cushion than its self-appointed role as protector of all things Cyberspace. The beleaguered organization has over the course of the past two years endured often withering criticism from the very frontier citizens it was sworn to uphold and protect. The reason: A perceived move away from its grassroots activism to the role of a consummate Washington Insider deal maker. Berman is the man largely responsible for cutting EFF's policy cloth. He wears the suit well. Maybe too well. Although he has the political acumen to arm-wrestle inside-the-beltway, it comes at the expense of his management style, EFF insiders said. Those shortcomings came at the expense of EFF's day-to-day operations and didn't go unnoticed by its board of directors. The EFF board in October fired Berman for mismanaging the group's organizational and fiscal responsibilities. No impropriety or malfeasance was alleged, the board was simply dissatisfied with Berman's day-to-day managing of the shop. In a precursor to the board's October decision, it split Berman's job, giving him charge of just the policy arm, which board members said played to his strength. They then hired Andrew Taubman as executive director to oversee the day to day tasks. Separate from the organizational and fiscal misgivings, the board also couldn't brook with priority on policy affairs that Berman had engineered. Although Berman expertly navigated EFF through the choppy political waters of Washington, that course increasingly steered the organization away from its original vision as a populist group. Never was the hardcore policy-driven slant of EFF more apparent than during the two-plus year political firestorm that surrounded the FBI's infamous Digital Wiretap. The political wrangling during that time, in which Berman brokered the influence of EFF with the backing of the telephone, computer and software industries, to reach a compromise with legislators and the FBI on the bill's language, increasingly drove a wedge between the organization and its grassroots membership. Nobody within EFF interviewed for this article disagreed with how Berman ran his policy tour de force. In fact, the board was generally in agreement that Berman did an excellent job in helping to broker a less nefarious version of the FBI's wiretap bill than would have otherwise passed without his involvement on EFF's behalf. As effective as Berman was in shuffling between the political and ideological interests of EFF and its members, the "inside baseball" political bullshit was largely lost on the community of the Net, who viewed it as a kind of betrayal. The fact that there would be a backlash from the Net came as no surprise to Berman and EFF, who recognized the fine line they had to walk in dealing with a politically charged issue rivaled only by the Administration's insipid Clipper Chip encryption policy. You see, the Net community is a binary braintrust, a world of ones and zeros -- either on or off -- in which shades of grey are rarely an option. Yet it is exactly these shades of grey in which Berman excels and thrives. It is a skill -- and damn near an art form -- to be able to move among the shadows and Washington's land of a thousand different agendas. And that's right where Berman had steered EFF. However, it's not where the EFF board thought the organization belonged. And so, in a few days the Net community will read a grand announcement in which EFF and Jerry Berman state they've had a "mutual parting of the ways." The announcement will be several fold, including: -- The formation of Berman's new Center for Democracy and Technology. -- That EFF has hired current board member David Johnson, currently a computer law attorney with the Washington law firm of Wilmer, Cutler and Pickering, to be its new policy director, although that exact title has yet to be finalized. -- A new policy agenda for EFF that includes creation of an annual "State of the Net" report. EFF Executive Director Taubman declined to comment on Berman's firing, saying only that the organization and its former director had, indeed, agreed to a "mutual parting of the ways." He said EFF and Berman's new group would continue to work closely with each other and that the efforts of each would be mutually beneficial. Johnson said he was excited about the new policy efforts he would be heading up for EFF, which, in addition to the "State of the Net" report, includes commissioning papers and studies to help build a more solid idea of what exactly constitutes the Net "community" on a global basis and helping to define the Net's community as recognizable legal entity. In addition to the new policy efforts, Johnson will have to restock EFF's policy department: All the EFF policy wonks have jumped ship, resigning their positions and joining with Berman's new venture. The upheaval at EFF -- which included moving the entire operation here to new digs in Washington -- apparently hasn't hurt moral which has "never been higher," Taubman said. Underscoring Taubman's remarks is EFF's on-line legal council Mike Godwin, who said the changes "create an opportunity for us to return to our more populist mission and vision that we started with." All Things Being Equal ================= Adversity for a political junkie is the warp and woof of Washington culture. Berman is no worse for the wear, having parachuted out of EFF and into his new organization. He said CDT will be differ from EFF "on what to emphasize." That emphasis will be to focus on "on the ground public policy," he said. And it won't only be Berman's staff that sets the scene for familiarity as he jump starts CDT. The former EFF policy staffers will supply him with horsepower and his political currency will open doors. But he needs cold hard cash to feed the troops and pay the rent. That means his new organization must have financial backing and here, too, there are no strangers. Berman's bringing along a fair chunk of EFF's corporate sponsors to his new home. Companies providing seed money to Berman's CDT include AT&T, Bell Atlantic, Nynex, Apple Computer and Microsoft. These same companies provided a combined $235,000 in donations to EFF in 1993, minus Nynex, which wasn't listed as a major donor (over $5,000) on EFF's tax returns. It's not known if these companies will continue to fund EFF in full or in part or what amount they have pledged to Berman's group. Just how well-heeled CDT is and exactly who makes up the full roster of its sponsorship remains to be seen. We'll know that after the organization files its first tax returns, which will be a matter of public record. Meeks out...

3 2

Listing of Files on the Auto-Responder as of 01-01-95
by skaplin＠skypoint.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Last Modified: 01-01-95 20:30 (CST) This is the index for Sam Kaplin's Auto-Responder. To get a file: Send a message to: skaplin(a)c2.org The the subject of the message MUST BE: SEND FILE [file_name] EXAMPLE: Subject: SEND FILE help <----Case Sensitive!!! All binary files are UUENCODED with PGP signatures. Please address all comments or problems to skaplin(a)skypoint.com. If you receive a blank message back, then the file you requested does not exist. Should you have a crypto related file that you would like added, contact me at: skaplin(a)skypoint.com. Please note that I am subject to the petty whims of the U.S. government, so I will not add any files which may be subject to ITAR. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- File Name Description - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- apgp212_1.uue Autopgp 2.12 offline mail packet processor. Automates PGP functions. Part 1 of 4 apgp212_2.uue Autopgp 2.12 offline mail packet processor. Automates PGP functions. Part 2 of 4 apgp212_3.uue Autopgp 2.12 offline mail packet processor. Automates PGP functions. Part 3 of 4 apgp212_4.uue Autopgp 2.12 offline mail packet processor. Automates PGP functions. Part 4 of 4 apgp22b2_1.uue Autopgp 2.2b2 offline mail packet processor. Automates PGP functions. Part 1 of 4 BETA apgp22b2_2.uue Autopgp 2.2b2 offline mail packet processor. Automates PGP functions. Part 2 of 4 BETA apgp22b2_3.uue Autopgp 2.2b2 offline mail packet processor. Automates PGP functions. Part 3 of 4 BETA apgp22b2_4.uue Autopgp 2.2b2 offline mail packet processor. Automates PGP functions. Part 4 of 4 BETA cp-faq1.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 1 of 11 cp-faq2.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 2 of 11 cp-faq3.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 3 of 11 cp-faq4.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 4 of 11 cp-faq5.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 5 of 11 cp-faq6.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 6 of 11 cp-faq7.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 7 of 11 cp-faq8.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 8 of 11 cp-faq9.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 9 of 11 cp-faq10.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 10 of 11 cp-faq11.uue Tim May's Cypherpunk Faq - Everything you wanted to know about C'Punk issues, but were afraid to ask. Part 11 of 11 crypto1.uue The Faq from talk.politics.crypto. A general overview of cryptography. Part 1 of 2 crypto2.uue The Faq from talk.politics.crypto. A general overview of cryptography. Part 2 of 2 help This file. key Sam Kaplin's PGP Public keys. news_gateways A listing of Mail -News gateways pgpfaq1.uue Frequently asked questions about PGP. Part 1 of 2 pgpfaq2.uue Frequently asked questions about PGP. Part 2 of 2 rsa1.uue A Faq put out by RSA outlining cryptography as it applies to RSA. Part 1 of 2 rsa2.uue A Faq put out by RSA outlining cryptography as it applies to RSA. Part 2 of 2 remailer_list A current listing of remailer sites. wherefaq.long Where to obtain PGP. (Long Version) wherefaq.short Where to obtain PGP. (Short Version) yn075_1.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 1 of 14 yn075_2.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 2 of 14 yn075_3.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 3 of 14 yn075_4.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 4 of 14 yn075_5.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 5 of 14 yn075_6.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 6 of 14 yn075_7.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 7 of 14 yn075_8.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 8 of 14 yn075_9.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 9 of 14 yn075_10.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 10 of 14 yn075_11.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 11 of 14 yn075_12.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 12 of 14 yn075_13.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 13 of 14 yn075_14.uue YARN .075 offline mail reader. Minimally supports PGP internally. Part 14 of 14 ============================================================================== Interpretation is the revenge of the intellect upon art. - Susan Sontag ============================================================================== skaplin(a)skypoint.com | Finger skaplin(a)infinity.c2.org for | a listing of crypto related files PGP encrypted mail is accepted and | available on my auto-responder. preferred. | (Yes...the faqs are there!) | E-mail key(a)four11.com for PGP Key or | "...vidi vici veni" - Overheard Finger skaplin(a)mirage.skypoint.com | outside a Roman brothel. ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBLwepPslnXxBRSgfNAQFjuAf/YfaeENpC16siv7SB9rkg6x1SiM5aup6n GXQQXaXtPA1pxgLDhv6gOgt/Zy/1M6tTJ/4uU2ft1KDU8wHlVt2JiU3d9/9JweZM zbpDCqh0ucyfRht2V27WMfYYfTXUQ7yHiWIg9gf2ODqQcwMEu8kAwTYZxXFmXDQ+ 9Xxchw7VR4ZGTo3cnPoh0526yKGBbi9hBr0vCr/IkTGH4cgf3BfXIF8Eolu4hQY3 r6XwcBYskN5afd/fVKA1qRhLkI3X9nP4oBNlVxdSs2cwgabQ2hZsExwtCwvHMi3K zGWAwZkd1VNMX4rC+uUkuEOR0GB9OikcRYoU9vvKDSHO1n6amnQamQ== =eeBK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Re: Exporting cryptographic materials, theory vs. practice
by Lile Elam 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

But what if that plane crashed... It's better to spread people out over several flights... -lile

1 0

Re: Anonymous payment scheme
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:21 PM 1/2/95, Hal wrote: >I'm not sure what you do in this situation if they ask to see some ID >when you try to use the card. This would be rather embarrassing, it >seems to me. Sorry, I guess I left my drivers license in my other >pants... Or, never mind, try this card. That other one was from before I >changed my name... Why not, "It's a pseudonym."? Looks like an evangelistic opportunity to me. Pseudonyms can't be illegal, or Mark Twain and Bob Dylan would have written from prison. ;-). I also don't believe that you are legally required to produce ID for a credit card purchase. That was the point about those pictures on the front of Citibank cards. Citicorp did that to get around the legal restrictions on demanding ID to cope with the much larger issue of fraud. Most (smaller) vendors hardly check the signature on the back, much less validating it against a state ID, however. Hmmm. What if you produced a pseudonym card *with* your picture on the front? I smell a market opportunity. Or not... >And personally, I am more concerned about the >bank and gov't tracking my spending patterns than whether the guy I buy >gas from knowing my name. The bank has a lot more information about me >which is much more threatening to my privacy. A nom de guerre VISA or >debit card does not seem to help this problem. Indeed. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) "There is no difference between someone Shipwright Development Corporation who eats too little and sees Heaven and 44 Farquhar Street someone who drinks too much and sees Boston, MA 02331 USA snakes." -- Bertrand Russell (617) 323-7923

1 0

Re: Why I have a 512 bit PGP key
by danisch＠ira.uka.de 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> A compiler can recognize one specific piece of code or a few > specific peices of code and do something perverse. It cannot > recognize functionally equivalent code, this > being a high order artificial intelligence problem. It's enough to recognize DES tables or PGP procedures. Hadmut

2 1

List of reliable remailers
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail, which is available at: ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/cypherpunks/premail/premail-0.30.tar.gz For the PGP public keys of the remailers, as well as some help on how to use them, finger remailer.help.all(a)chaos.bsu.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{"vox"} = "<remail(a)vox.xs4all.nl> cpunk pgp. post"; $remailer{"avox"} = "<anon(a)vox.hacktic.nl> cpunk pgp post"; $remailer{"extropia"} = "<remail(a)extropia.wimsey.com> cpunk pgp special"; $remailer{"portal"} = "<hfinney(a)shell.portal.com> cpunk pgp hash"; $remailer{"alumni"} = "<hal(a)alumni.caltech.edu> cpunk pgp hash"; $remailer{"bsu-cs"} = "<nowhere(a)bsu-cs.bsu.edu> cpunk hash ksub"; $remailer{"rebma"} = "<remailer(a)rebma.mn.org> cpunk pgp hash"; $remailer{"jpunix"} = "<remailer(a)jpunix.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"c2"} = "<remail(a)c2.org> eric pgp hash"; $remailer{"soda"} = "<remailer(a)csua.berkeley.edu> eric post"; $remailer{"penet"} = "<anon(a)anon.penet.fi> penet post"; $remailer{"ideath"} = "<remailer(a)ideath.goldenbear.com> cpunk hash ksub"; $remailer{"usura"} = "<usura(a)replay.com> cpunk pgp. hash latent cut post"; $remailer{"desert"} = "<remail(a)desert.xs4all.nl> cpunk pgp. post"; $remailer{"nately"} = "<remailer(a)nately.ucsd.edu> cpunk pgp hash latent cut"; $remailer{"xs4all"} = "<remailer(a)xs4all.nl> cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"flame"} = "<tomaz(a)flame.sinet.org> cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"rahul"} = "<homer(a)rahul.net> cpunk"; $remailer{"mix"} = "<mixmaster(a)nately.ucsd.edu> cpunk hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"q"} = "<q(a)c2.org> cpunk hash latent cut ek"; catalyst(a)netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. Last ping: Mon 2 Jan 95 6:00:02 PST remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- nately remailer(a)nately.ucsd.edu +++++++++++* 32:53 99.99% mix mixmaster(a)nately.ucsd.edu +++++++++-+ 41:39 99.99% rahul homer(a)rahul.net --***#***#** 9:40 99.98% penet anon(a)anon.penet.fi ********+*** 26:09 99.99% vox remail(a)vox.xs4all.nl .-..------- 12:53:05 99.99% soda remailer(a)csua.berkeley.edu .-.._-.-.. 8:50:49 99.67% usura usura(a)replay.com *****+- -- * 22:53 99.33% flame tomaz(a)flame.sinet.org ** *-*-*-** 32:52 99.09% jpunix remailer(a)jpunix.com ** *-#-*-** 32:26 99.06% c2 remail(a)c2.org --__.-+*--** 2:50:57 98.95% rebma remailer(a)rebma.mn.org ---*----* 7:52:32 99.27% ideath remailer(a)ideath.goldenbear.com ++* ++** - 2:09:26 98.05% bsu-cs nowhere(a)bsu-cs.bsu.edu +* --#+##** 1:40:45 96.01% q q(a)c2.org --_ . --+ 6:03:15 92.56% alumni hal(a)alumni.caltech.edu *****#*++ *- 27:00 89.60% portal hfinney(a)shell.portal.com #*#**#*** *- 21:31 89.60% extropia remail(a)extropia.wimsey.com +.-+* +++ 12:38:44 77.66% xs4all remailer(a)xs4all.nl *** *-- 20:22 75.57% desert remail(a)desert.xs4all.nl ----____.-- 40:43:30 71.96% For more info: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). Options and features cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. oldpgp Remailer does not like messages encoded with MIT PGP 2.6. Other versions of PGP, including 2.3a and 2.6ui, work fine. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. ek Encrypt responses in relpy blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. Comments and suggestions welcome! Raph Levien

1 0

exponential relationship of crytographer and cryptanalyst
by Peter F Cassidy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

- I'm writing a piece on the politics of surveillance/privacy technologies for OMNI, essentially a survey of their advance since the 1967 proposal for the National Data Center. I cover cryptography, deriving the narrative from Clipper Chip initiative. The point I'm trying to make is that given the market forces pushing commerce onto the public networks and the increasing power of available encryption, the cold war national apparatus will have to mobilize quickly a la digital telephony to stomp it - yet the nature of computing puts them in a loosing position in the long run. Toward the latter part of this thesis, I've been told - and want check with youz - of the exponential relationship of crytographer and cryptanalyst. The heart of this relationship has been explained to me as follows: Increasing the key by one bit effectively doubles the number of keys and proportionally increases the power required to break it in a brute force attack. Is this true? Is there a truer way of stating it? Are there complicating factors this excludes that I should discuss? - Regards, - Peter Cassidy

1 0

(Fwd) Re Anonymous posting
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For those interested in the anonymity issue there is a lively debate on list Cyberia-L (a legal list) which was stimulated, in part, by Peter Lewis's articles on anonymity and the LaMacchia case dismissal. For participation send message to: listserv(a)listserv.cc.wm.edu subscribe cyberia-l Your name Provocatively, I forward the following: Forwarding mail by: jsilverm(a)reach.com (Jared Silverman -- NJ Bureau of Sec. - Newark) on Mon, 2 Jan 11:58 AM ------------------- On January 1, 1995, Buford Terrell wrote: >Anonymity is very much a core 1st Amendment value and at the >center of both political speech and the right to assemble. [Snip] >Often times, the only way weak or unpopular minorites can speak >is anonymously. There have been many times when to couple one's >name to one's writings would be to invite martyrdom. I had >rather risk a few perverts than to stifle this most important >channel for dissent. It is one thing to claim First Amendment protection to shield political speech, IMHO it is another to shield fraud and criminal behavior. Besides the First Amendment runs against the government, not in favor of individuals in actions brought by private parties. In the sexism thread, would anyone claim that an individual has the right to harass or stalk a person under the guise of the First Amendment? Would the First Amendment be a defense in a defamation suit? Of course not (Times v. Sullivan aside). Doesn't an individual have the right to know the identity of someone who is trying to communicate with him/her on a private basis? To a certain extent, the question was crystallized in the caller ID debate -- Who has the superior right, the calling party to anonymity or the called party to knowing who is calling? One of the areas of my professional concern is the use of cyberspace for securities fraud and manipulation. Cyberspace is an ideal medium for these activities because of the availability of anonymity and pseudonymity. Even on commercial BBSs, where "member lists" are available, posting to these lists is voluntary and those who draw my attention are rarely on these lists. Does all of cyberspace become off limits to conventional private rights and law enforcement under the rubric of "freedom of speech and assembly?" |--------------------------------------------------------------| |A. Jared Silverman, Chief-New Jersey Bureau of Securities | |jsilverm(a)reach.com | 201-504-3600 (phone) | 201-504-3601 (fax)| |**************************************************************| | My purpose holds to sail beyond the sunset - Tennyson | |**************************************************************| |The foregoing is the personal opinion of the sender and is not| |the official position of either the Bureau of Securities or | |the New Jersey Attorney General and the Department of Law and | |Public Safety. Affiliation given for identification only. | |--------------------------------------------------------------|

1 0

Re: Anonymous payment scheme
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Samuel Kaplin wrote: >Let's suppose myself and 10,000 of my closest friends form the First >National Cypherpunk Bank and Trust. We go through all of the hassles in >order to be the issuer of a Master Card or Visa. Now instead of having a >credit line, it is set up as a debit card. The card's limit is how ever >much you have prepaid the bank in advance. Once you have hit your prepaid >amount the card no longer gets approved. Now because everything is prepaid, >there is no risk to me, so I'll put any name you want on the card. The >questions I have are: > >Is this legal in the U.S.? > >If so, is anyone doing it? This type of card is issued with just about every checking accunt in Oregon. I don't know about other states, except that here in California I know of only two that are doing it: Charles Schwaab and Glendale Federal. There may be more, but I have yet to hear about them. In Oregon you get such an ATM/Visa card instead of your regular ATM card. Good credit, bad credit, no credit. Now if I could just remember what its called... -- Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred.

1 0

Re: Anonymous payment scheme
by frissell＠panix.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:42 AM 1/3/95 -0800, bmorris(a)netcom.com wrote: >With a debit card you can't be anonymous, because your money resides in >the bank. With digital cash, and the ability to transfer money to >another digital cash card via phone lines, I don't see how they can >successfully trace everything. They will try, no doubt. Unless you open a bank account in a nome de guerre. In the Inter-mountain West and in small towns elsewhere, it is often possible even today to open a bank account with "soft ID." Such ID would include employment ID and student ID. Since anyone can be an employer or a school, anyone can issue such soft ID. These items work very well if backed up with a secured VISA card from one of the many issuers. Some of the issuers of secure credit cards want references but many will issue their cards if your name comes up as having no credit record. Made up people are the most likely to have no credit history. Even though a VISA card is not meant to be ID, most people (even state DMV offices) treat it as ID. DCF ************************************************************************* ATMs, Contracting Out, Digital Switching, Downsizing, EDI, Fax, Fedex, Home Workers, Internet, Just In Time, Leasing, Mail Receiving, Phone Cards, Quants, Securitization, Temping, Voice Mail.

1 0