December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

subscribe
by jc138696＠longs.lance.colostate.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

How do I subscribe? thank you.

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Watch out for carl@com.malamud.t
by carugo o 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

He is a neg!!! e0004353(a)brookes.uk.ac ps i wrote the introductory piece on myself!!

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New arrival.
by carugo o 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Yes, Ia m here weird, strong, and full willingness to learn. If you want to know what I am like think of a rhino with his turbo charged bulldozer flatening the field of complacent cows. Yes that his me captain spineless- people- crusher. Is there any recommended literature as regards the cypherpunks dark and dangerous world. I love high electronic finance. I have been looking at the takeover battle for paramount.. What these bloody harvard mba managers don't seem to realise is that if all internet factions got together we could outbid any takover offer.. Now that is corporate bucks!!! Does anybody write to vice president gore or cher clinton. BTW who is your local net.god? I am very serious on one hand buit sucha good sport on the other. I am also logged onto bras-net and I must say these Phd Brasilians are something else. It is a big fight on how corruption money should be distributed to them and god is there or not, I was thought he abandoned human king=d the day he saw how bloody ugly eve was and went on to better world with full of social security, plenty of computer wizz kids and other such lovely mechanical inventions. I would love to get onto angel(a)heaven.sky Wacky or what!! are there any invesment bankers on line ? I hope so, since I have become an old hand in Latin american investment. I get calls from investors at all times in my dreams. well, I am still here writing.... I am doing my personal research on the future of commerce on the internet?! Opinions. Would you want adverts being pourred down your screen all day?? I have to go for now. I will hate and love this club. Bye form the wacky man!!!

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I'm leaving cypherpunks
by bill＠twwells.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A few things before I go. If you have any replies you want me to see, you'll have to send them via private mail, since I no longer get the list. This includes replies to my recent set of posts. I was asked how to participate in the sexual abuse newsgroup. That newsgroup is a standard Usenet-style newsgroup in the altnet. You may not have it at your server because it has the dreaded s-- infix. Explaining to your admin that the group is not a porno group might get the group. If you want the group but, for one reason or another don't care to ask your admin, you can write me and I'll ask (without mentioning your name). Alternately, I can send it to you via e-mail; it's fairly high volume, though, running perhaps 50-60 messages a day. You can post through one of the anonymous servers. Send to anon-help(a)twwells.com for info on how to use mine. Some of you may wonder why I'm leaving cypherpunks. Rjc seems like a minor provocation, in comparison to Detweiler and some of the lesser lights here. That's true and rjc is not why I'm leaving. I'm a firm believer in the right to privacy. And to the right to possess and appropriately use the tools needed to secure it. That much, I support the cypherpunks goal. However, I also believe that this Brave New World of ours can go in more than one way. It may become a dystopia in which people like rjc, and their more powerful brethren, set the terms and tone, or it may approach a utopia that enables its participants to make the most of what they have. We here at the beginning will make that choice. We'll do it *by* *our* *actions*. Either we will choose to form a true _society_ of privacy or we will permit cyberspace to descend into a war of all against all. *We* choose. We choose with each of our actions. Is this action based on a fundamental respect for others or is it based on a desire for self-aggrandizement? Does it further the end of healthy, human interaction or is it destructive in nature and intent? But as important as these individual contributions are, more important is the attitude that is taken towards them. Are acts such as rjc's considered acceptable behavior, to be tolerated with all other sorts of behavior, or are they to be censured and, where appropriate, censored? In an uncontrolled environment, there is little that can be done to further an appropriate attitude. One can reinforce the good and censure the bad. And hope. In a controlled environment, such as cypherpunks, those who control the list have the final say. The excess of noise on this can be *directly* traced to the list owner's choice to not control its content. Rjc's ability to abuse another *and to continue the abuse* is a direct consequence of the owner's policies. These facts are, by themselves, offensive but would be, barely, tolerable. However, their consequences are not. Their consequences are a furthering of the ends of people like rjc, a society in which might makes right, and in which the potentials of others are stifled by the hostility of those who prefer to rule rather than grow. And this I cannot support. Nor do I care to be associated with a group that, intentionally or not, supports this. *This* is why I'm leaving cypherpunks. Privacy is a *social* phenomenon, not a technical one. There is no sense in creating tools for privacy unless one also works for a society in which the deployment of these tools makes sense. One final thing before I go. I could set up a list on my machine (not on the Internet but I connect fairly frequently because of my server) with policies that address these issues, with the side effect of dramatically improving the signal-to-noise ratio. If this is of potential interest to you, let me know. If there is sufficient interest I'll draw up a formal policy. If enough people then say they'll sign up, I'll create the list.

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my sad observations...
by jdblair＠nextsrv.cas.muohio.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have followed the cypherpunk list for about 9 months now, and I have learned A LOT directly from it. I have rarely posted, just read the material as it appeared, learning from what I was able to without getting lost in equations. There is always a certain amount of noise to useful signal from any information source, although over the past month the signal to noise ratio on Cypherpunks has become almost intolerable. I now read few of the messages, just sifting out what I hope will be useful to me from the subject headings. If any of you are able to read ALL of the posts, and keep up the rest of your work, I commend you. Perhaps the current state is a symptom of growing popularity. Since it has always appeared to me that the point of the list was to disseminate information on cryptography, and provide a discussion point for those interested in spreading the use of cryptography, growing popularity would seem to be a signal of success. However, I miss the state of the list last April, when every time I checked it I felt like I learned something new about cryptography. Perhaps those with little to say, that seem to be posting just to cause trouble or to be heard, would better serve the group if they faded out for a while now, and just watched until they were ready to say something useful. I do not wish to flame anyone in particular, or to start a flame war, just point out (probably for the nth time) what is a growing problem. If any new listeners are interested, I have an archive of the postings which I found interesting, or seemed like they would be useful. I do not pretend that it is the definitive cypherpunk archive, especially since there is a 2.5 month gap for the summer when I was living out of my pack in the Sangre De Christo Mtns. If you want a copy, e-mail me. Please put "archive request" in the subject header. For intro. information, the Cryptography FAQ, posted on sci.crypt was very helpful for me. This posting has now gotten too large, and is perhaps guilty of the problem I am addressing. For this, I apoligize. code on, -john. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Blair |Fertilize your garden with dirt, compost, jdblair(a)nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu |old magazines, Apple II logic boards, obsolete PGP Key available upon request |software, forgotten video images, rusty cans, |canceled stamps, love, hate, and desire. |Wait untill spring, and see what comes up.

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Electronic fraud/and creditors abay.
by carugo o 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Yes Firstly hallo fellow punks. Yes you tell me about electronic fraud and Iw ould like to know are there any of you out there how are good at keeping creditors at bay, eg phone companies etc. Trump can you hear me? Bye Mephisto e0004353(a)brookes.uk.ac

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Words, words, words
by an41418＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tyrone Slothrop (RocketMan), you say: > It's just words; they can't hurt you. I think many people, nations, reputations, organization, etc. have been destroyed by "just words." Somewhere I heard the phrase: "The pen is mightier than the sword." Words can and do hurt. I believe the practive of flaming has probably hindered many people's participation and contribution to discussions on the net. Some words that can hurt you: - death threats - "You're fired" - "I don't want to see you ever again." - "You're ideas are stupid; take them somewhere else." - "We see no option but to declare war!" you get the idea. Flaming is unproductive. Wonderer p.s. I am ashamed; messages will be signed soon. Here's a detached signature of this message. -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.3 iQBVAgUALM/zPR1kTJuroDD9AQGpVAH/Y7rQ86YcC91Fi19UfyVv607NSwQu063K c++LRh5Y7D/CrZZNkPkmiE1melwNvXruoLx3dP8w38HacT090/Jx+w== =aJVa -----END PGP MESSAGE----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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Privacy/pseudonyms/etc..
by Timothy Newsham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I have been on this list lately. I have seen all sorts of diversions from "normal" cypherpunk discussion. None has been as big as this discussion on psuedonyms and "pseudospoofing". I always thought that this list was made up of people who already believed that privacy was a good thing and that it should be persued by writing cryptographic software that enforced that privacy. There are newsgroups for debating various features of privacy, I think one of them is called alt.privacy or something equally obvious. I know the discussions are pretinent to the code that we write but I dont believe they belong on this list. If I wanted to discuss the ups and downs of giving everybody privacy I would read the appropriate lists. Tim N.

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Re: Net Requlation
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

K >1. If you don't have US citizenship, how do you get a passport? (Buy K >it on sale from the Czech republic or what?) Actually, the Dominican Republic is better. You don't really need to change citizenship unless you are from a country that restricts foreign travel by citizens. Picking up a *second* passport is always a good idea, however, and the US has recently changed its regs to permit its nationals to seek naturalisation in other countries without renouncing US citizenship. K >2. Where do you live? I mean I love to travel but after 3 or 4 K >weeks of it I'm ready to settle down and hibernate for a long while. K >[Especially now with a wife and 2 sons, I'd last about 2 days traveling K > :-)] Somewhere As someone pointed out, you need not travel much just be in a country where you are not a citizen. K >3. Are the TELECOM connections there yet? Slowly but surely. Switzerland is good these days. Expense is the main problem. If the Anglo-Saxon conspiracy wins the battle of network non-design (as it seems sure to do) everyone in the OECD will soon have cheap telcoms. K >4. Customer interaction. This is a problem, if you work on computer K >systems that are unique or program custom software for these systems, K >customer interaction is very important If you have the customer in the first place, you can make visits without too much problem. Marketing is more difficult. Slow-scan video for everyone over the nets is close. Things to keep in mind... I don't expect that very many people will use cryptography, anonymous remailers, DC nets, etc to become PTs or virtual expatriates but these tools will have a marginal (meaning "edge" not "small") effect on the process of institutional transformation. The nets themselves are the critical device for weakening national controls. They will sweep aside labor regulations, financial regulations and a host of restraints that keep people poorer than they need be. Oops! Sorry about that. Too much time spent on alt.politics.economics... Duncan Frissell --- WinQwk 2.0b#1165

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Re: My Views on the Detweiler Matter
by owen＠autodesk.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From: tcmay(a)netcom.netcom.com (Timothy C. May) > >It's sad. I told you so. By the way, my analysis of this turn of events is that this is a huge guerilla ontology experiment, that was spurred on by my original postings regarding the issue of psychopathic personalitys, and the parameters of pathological aspects of privacy. Good job guys. :-) LUX ./. owen ( A legend in his own mind)

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