December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re:
by jkthomson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ok, sorry to have to drag the list into this AGAIN, but this AOL'er is much too funny for his own good. Imagine, he is entertaining me (perhaps the list?) for free! >At 04:16 PM 8/31/98 EDT, ILovToHack(a)aol.com wrote: >>Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay off. >trust me, it's ok, he was using '32-bit AOL' to post his message, so EVERYONE >but you realized that he was talking about garbage anyway. maybe AOL64 will >have a clue(tm) built in. >an appeal to listmembers: >listmembers, can't we make this list 'request for access'? iLoV2HaCk and his >AOL ilk are getting a little too 'elite' and 'k- rad' for me. pipebombs, >posters, spooks, music, what the hell is happening to this list? I know that >I mainly lurk, but don't you think that having to request to join this list >may filter out the worst of the AOL (et al) newbies? they obviously cannot >get a clue(tm) and continue to cause a landslide of off-topic (albeit funny) >posts that ridicule them, and keep this list awash in non- cypherpunkish >dialogue. >oh, and I am also sorry for perpetuating this thread. ...and I got some AOL mail back from him! wooho! At 06:10 PM 8/31/98 EDT, you wrote: >You post a message like that again and you will be sued for libel my screen >name is just a nic and by the way if you think i am jokeing about the law suit >try me > ><Mike Haisley> ><ceo comnerd inc.> ><ILovToHack(a)aol.com> dude... please. take your best shot. I'm bored of you already and I want to see if you are actually as clueless as you appear to be. do it. c'mon! I'll even SIGN this message, Mike! oh yes, and apologies go out to the list, _again_. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNetnsrHc23iBlhItEQKiuwCbBS2gFXzDt4ZcpGsGsPimICJGeh4AnRyY KWL0x6FZaT+mOxFhC3Jr1Zgu =URJ7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- james 'keith' thomson <jkthomson(a)bigfoot.com> www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98] ceildh :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98] ICQ:746241 <keys> at pgp.mit.edu ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The people to worry about are not those who openly disagree with you, but those who disagree with you who are too cowardly to let you know. =======================================================================

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Free Membership!!!!!!!!
by freemem＠yahoo.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: BEWARE of SnakeOil (tm)
by Destroy micro$oft 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, Aug 31, 1998 at 10:43:23PM -0400, Jean-Francois Avon wrote: | | - beware of any product that has not been *extensively* peer-reviewed, with *all* the | source code made public. Security breaches are *very* easy to overlook and no software | should *ever* be used unless it was peer-reviewed. The source code for his Linux implementation is available at http://www.filesafety.com/CRYPT.EXE - which is actually a tar+gzipped file. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Is this like flame baiting him? Personally I don't mind the comments :) ----------- We don't take kindly to racial slurs here. You'll probably be receiving hundreds of email bombs over the next few days from angry cypherpunks. You may want to change email accounts.God bless! At 08:19 PM 8/29/98 -0400, RyanFord(a)aol.com wrote:> hola and good tidings > send some info on spooks please > i will be grateful>

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Re: Is Hate Code Speech? YES
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

First off if she didn't like the code she could have quit. Laws that say a company has to change their internal practices to make the workers happy are idiotic. I can't sue because the men's bathroom looks like crap and the wemans has a couch in it! If the program code was meant for distribution it might be a little different but still you have the choice not to get that code. The same as reading this message a few lines in you could delete it! You chose to read this far. The code is internal only and thus should require an internal policy, not an outside law enforcement agency. As far as speach: If it wasn't a form of speech she would have not gotten offended. She was offended by the language in the source code and thus the speech. get a job somewhere you feel comfortable, don't get a job and force them to change things around you ---"Albert P. Franco, II" <apf2(a)apf2.com> wrote: > > >From: mcw(a)atreus.ncs.ncsc.mil > >Subject: Is Hate Code Speech? > > > > > >I acknowledge that you're welcome to use whatever variable names you > >want in code you write in private. BUt if you want to sell that code, it > >should be held to a standard of professionalism. > > > > I think it is interesting that people are speaking of the program as > something published for public consumption. Source code for commercial > products rarely goes public and compilers do a rather nice job of obscuring > human language variable names. Thus if there is any message or coherent > agenda in the source code it is highly unlikely that it will be detectable > in the executable, which is in fact the product delivered to the public. > > Since the source code can only be read by insiders/employees then this does > tend to make it rather obvious that a form of speech was intended. I won't > rehash the fact that non-relevant, human-language-significant variable > names (as opposed to x, y, i, & j) are generally unacceptable programming > practice. I would make two points; that in todays programming world source > code is protected by copyright law as are other forms of expression legally > considered speech and source code is intended to document the process and > as such communicate ideas--in a broad sense this is a decent description of > speech, a written mode of communicating ideas. > > If someone finds offensive (hate) material in an obscured text (encrypted) > intended for limited distribution, does the encryption make it less > hateful? does the encryption make it any less a form of speech? does the > fact that distribution is limited (assumming the "target" is in the > distribution class) make it any less offensive? Is a crime less illegal if > it is hidden? (Be careful, on this one...) > > I think that offensive, probably hateful, speech was intended. So the next > step (or for others, a previous step) is to decide whether there are legal > grounds for action. There are several laws which do, in fact, make these > activities illegal. Most people in the US today agree that overt racism is > wrong. Additionally, most "Americans" agree with laws that make it illegal > to use/perform "hateful" speech. > > These are very dangerous laws since they try to tread a very thin line > between the freedom of thoughts (and to some degree, actions) and injury to > others. When I first settled down to live in Spain and began to pay real > attention to the local political scene I was astonished to find people > defending the "right" of the radicals to throw stones and metal objects at > those persons expressing ideas contrary to theirs (pro-peace, > anti-terrorism demonstrations, 1995-6). Fortunately, we hear less and less > of this non-sense that physical harm to another is a valid form of personal > expression or speech. But the base problem lingers, where do we draw the > line of expression of ideas and intent to do harm. It has long been held > that shouting "fire" in a crowded building is not a protected form of > speech. Nor is libel (forgetting for now the problems of defining or > proving it). And where do we draw the line (or does it even matter?) > between public and private? And where do expression and action get > separated? Thinking about doing something, or telling some one about those > thoughts are not generally the same as actually doing it. But where does > thought become expression become action? > > This case doesn't solely revolve around the speech issue...IMO, it also > revolves around the public/private issue, and whether or not the government > can rightfully "enter" a "private" business place to regulate these > matters. Recent history (80 years or so...) shows an increasing tendency > for the government to "protect" workers by regulating the workplace. There > are health & safety regs, minimum wage regs, etc. The "American" populace > has in general supported (and at times demanded) these external limits on > the "private" employer/employee relationship. Legal precedent exists. > > There are two problems here and historically the government has been called > upon to keep a balance between "free speech" and "harmful speech" on the > one hand and "Privacy" and "Protection" on the other hand. The debate now > is with this case which way will (should?) the pendulum swing? More > protection (reduction of privacy), more freedom (or hateful speech)... > > Personally, I hope no one wins this eternal debate 100% since the results > would be disastrous. > > Just some thoughts... > > Albert P. Franco, II > encryption(a)apf2.com > > == _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
by Martin ELLISON 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

application/www-form-urlencoded

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BEWARE of SnakeOil (tm)
by Albert P. Franco, II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> The subpoena Booher received also ordered him to bring to the courthouse the >> source code for his product, suggesting the government wants to reverse >> engineer it. > The writer of this article shows an astonishing lack of computer knowledge. If they get the source code then there is no need to reverse engineer! Discount anything technical this writer says since he/she is clueless! Give 'em a word processor and they think they're journalists... Albert P. Franco, II

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Is it true that PGP 5.X is not secure?
by Lars Weitze 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 There are still rumors about that... ChromeDemon - -- "One dead is a tragedy, thousand deads are a statistic." Karl Marx e-mail: chromedemon(a)netcologne.de http://chromedemon.home.pages.de http://www.netcologne.de/~nc-weitzela2 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.5.5 iQA/AwUBNevU0XnCsKPabtOfEQILcACfZ097WlD1pyA+2c7qv5RcyuYQJaEAoOmf mvg3B9F9NNv7qrHljjgC1T+B =J/8j -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Threaded code's place
by bill payne 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tuesday 9/1/98 9:00 AM Alexander Wolfe I spoke to Richard Hanson yesterday afternoon. He got the e-mail referencing http://www.eet.com/news/98/1024news/java.html I wrote the attached WEED KILLER addition for an SBIR proposal submitted by several profs at Texas A&M and a Sandia physicist. Threaded code can 'save-the-day' on some types of projects but doesn't work very well on others. I wrote in the preface of my 8051 forth book FORTH is applicable to hardware intensive projects implemented by one, two, or three workers. Robots, computer numerical controlled machines, weapons programmers, cryptographic processors, engine controllers, unmanned observatories, computer hardware debuggers, laser printer graphics controllers, video games, work station device drivers, writing BASICs are all candidates for FORTH software technology. FORTH is a one of the top choices for embedded controller applications. AFTER publication of my SANDIA-APPROVED BOOK, I learned FROM NSA 1 the former ussr uses Forth to fuze it weapons systems 2 builds a military version of the 8051. Oh dear. /http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/javavm/ gives the definition of the Java verbs. Charles Moore, Forth's inventor, is writing the ShBoom Java compiler http://www.ptsc.com/ The green machine at http://www.metriguard.com/HCLT.HTM runs using the Forth from my book. Since I was fired I have been doing mostly MASM and Visual Basic programming. This is good for me since I gives me a different perspective from standalone Forth and Forth assembler which I did at Sandia. Visual Basic is more like Fortran than traditional basics. Implementing Basics : How Basics Work William H. and Patricia Payne / Published 1982 http://www.amazon.com Your article on Java and its future was VERY INFORMATIVE. I SPECULATE that Java will see about the same success as Forth. I am working on completion of the digital FX Model 2600FX Ultrasonic Veneer Tester http://www.metriguard.com/METPROD.HTM which uses a 80C32 micrcontroller interfacing to a Windows PC though an ieee 1284 ecp port. The 80C32 software is written in Forth and Forth assembler. The Windows since is written in Visual Basic and MASM Windows dlls. Forth on the 80C32 is a NATURAL. One the PC side Forth is not suitable - except for interactive exploring super i/o chips. http://www.smsc.com/main/datasheet.html Loring Wirbel WROTE SCATHING articles about NSA when Girish Mahtre was editor of EET. But since CMP took over, Loring's articles have been more subdued. This is the reason I sent Wirbel a copy of my offending tech report. http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm Loring has been superhelpful to see that I am not buried in the Great Satan's invisible cemetery. And in one article wrote the paragraph Next in my in-basket was a set of reprints from the Baltimore Sun from the paper's NSA series, which ran in early December. The series reveals the setup by the NSA and CIA of a new covert collection agency, the Special Collection Service, and details the case of Hans Buehler, an employee of Crypto A.G. who was thrown into an Iranian prison after getting snared in a Crypto/NSA sting against that country. http://www.jya.com/whp1.htm which was read by Iranian engineers. A week ago I mailed a copy of the Swiss Radio International tape to http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm Lazlo Baranyi plans to post the audio plus translations of the German at his web site, Baranyi wrote me. I want settlement, my money and out of this crypto mess. Loring Wirbel and EET has been a GREAT HELP. Along with other journalists, including Pulitzer Prize-winner Tamar Stieber, too. bill payne WEED KILLER computer interface proposal section 7/27/98 10:11 AM Solution to controlling and collecting data from the WEED KILLER involves interfacing a personal computer running a version of the Windows operating system to the WEED KILLER analog/digital hardware. Windows is not a real-time operating system, therefore microcontroller controller/collector hardware interface must be installed between a Wintel PC and the WEED KILLER hardware. Essence of the Wintel data collector problem is that Windows 3.x or 9x responds to a hardware interrupt usually between 70 to 150 microseconds. In rare occasions the interrupt latency may extend to 1.5 milliseconds or even longer. A microcontroller responds to an interrupt in several microseconds. Wintel hardware controller interface is even more difficult than collection for the reason that the Windows operating system only gives control to an application when Windows decides. In the collection, mode at least a hardware interrupt signals Windows that the application wants control. However, the microcontroller can send the Wintel an interrupt asking the applications code whether there is any message it needs to send the microcontroller. Microcontrollers have specialized timers, serial expansion ports and are, therefore, designed to be interfaced to analog and digital hardware. An 80C32 family microcontroller is proposed for the WEED KILLER application for reasons. 1 The 80C32 will do the job. 2 Multiple vendors of 80C32 guarantee future supply at a competitive price. Current suppliers include Intel, AMD, Winbond, Dallas, Philips, Siemens, OKI, ATMEL, ... 3 High-speed parallel port bi-directional IEEE 1284 enhanced capability port 9 (ecp) communications hardware between an 80C32 and PC is in the final stage of development. 4 IEEE 1284 hardware drivers are supplied with Windows NT. Custom assembler dll drivers are available for 9x and 3.x. 5 A public-domain Forth 8051 operating system hosting a high-level language and interactive assembler with complete source code documentation is available on Internet. http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm Hardcover book further documenting 5 is available from Academic Press. http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2 Only a Wintel machine is required for both hardware and software for the WEED KILLER project. Usually a Forth hardware/software development probject on requres a voltmeter, logic probe, and, infrequently, an oscilloscope. Reason is the INTERACTIVE control of the hardware and software from a PC keyboard and diagnostic information easily printed to a PC monitor. Justification for assertion made in the above paragraph comes from Internet. NASA uses Forth extensively for its space programs. http://groucho.gsfc.nasa.gov/forth/ Ballard used polyForth http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=polyforth&z=2&hc=0&hs=0 to locate wrecks of the Titanic, Bismarck, and Yorktown. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/98/midway Sun Microsystems workstation boot into Forth then invokes Solaris. http://playground.sun.com/pub/1275/ Adobe Postscript is a version of Forth. http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/language/forth-postscript.html Video game software are written mostly in Forth. The Wintel side of the WEED KILLER project will be most-likely written in a small amount of assembler interface code and Visual Basic. While Forth threaded code software technology is extremely valuable in some settings, it is not in others. Java is a variation of Forth. http://www.mrl.nyu.edu/meyer/jvmref/ Future of Java on Wintel machines is unclear at this time. For example, The hottest items among techies is a browser called Opera. This is a $40 shareware program that in speed and compact size buts both IE and Communicator to shame. It has a slightly different interface from either of the majors - an interface some find refreshing while other find less than useful. As it's shareware, you can try and then buy if you like it. One reason for its speed is that it ignores Java - the Internet's Bandwidth Pig (IBP). The Rumor Mill by Paul Cassel ComputerScene Magazine July 1998 Forth executes code High-level at about 10% the speed of a compiled high-level language. Speed of execution of small applications is not effected by Forths slow execution. Reason is that initial code is written in high-level Forth. Inner loops are then translated into Forth assembler. Speed is maintained with the advantage that data structures are created an maintained in high-level language while the interactive operating system is retained for trouble shooting both hardware and software problem. Hardware cost of building the 80C32 the WEED KILLER boards is estimated at $10k. Hardware design is estimated at 1 month labor at $50/hr for a total of $8k. Software development on the 80C32 side in Forth and Forth assembler, software on the Wintel side in Visual Basic and assembler, documentation, and training is estimated to be 4 months for a total of $32k /\/\/\ end

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I believe by spooks he meant that you should go jump off a building before you further insult the intelligence of the rest of the known universe. Lord knows you've already insulted mine enough that I'd be willing to come up there with you and do the pushing. Fucking dolt. At 04:16 PM 8/31/98 -0400, ILovToHack(a)aol.com wrote: >Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay off. >

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