December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Bill Campbell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Everyone and his/her cousin has jumped into the void created when John Gilmore decided to pull the plug on toad.com. However, I'm very confused on just what to do at this point, my news server doesn't see alt.cypherpunks yet and if it did would probably lose about 75% of the posts if past performance is to be any indicator. (Or more accurately, would never get them, we seem to be a bottom feeder here in South Florida as far as the newsgroups go.) Has anyone composed a concise summary of just what the options are? Time is running out, I guess. Thanks in advance. =Bill=

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Another test
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Another test

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Dave Hayes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles writes: > At 01:13 PM 2/16/97 -0800, Dave Hayes wrote: > >I can also offer my participation in the distributed mailing list, if > >that is what it takes to get cypherpunks free of control interests again. > I think it would be more accurate to say that this is what it takes to get > cypherpunks into the hands of different control interests. Ok. If the legends about this list are true, then this is the ideal place to determine the feasability of removing -any- control interests. ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet The only person who needs a contract is one who cannot be trusted.

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FC97 lookalike: Stock Trading over the Internet Conference
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I don't know about *lookalike*... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Sender: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com Reply-To: Ian Grigg <iang(a)systemics.com> Precedence: Bulk Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:30:32 +0100 (MET) From: Ian Grigg <iang(a)systemics.com> To: Multiple recipients of <e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com> Subject: FC97 lookalike: Stock Trading over the Internet Conference http://www.iqpc.com/0397stoc.htm STOCK TRADING OVER THE INTERNET Exploiting the power of Electronic Commerce March 19-20, 1997 * The Pan Pacific Hotel * San Francisco, CA Hear first hand tips from the true pioneers in Internet stock trading and electronic commerce on: Conquering the process of going public Raising capital in your company via the Internet Using the Web to build your business and partnering with co-opitition Forming permanent syndicates to foster the creation of new offerings Creating effective and complete marketing plans for IPO's and DPO's Attracting customers and delivering services through the exploding electronic commerce market The audience for this event will include companies looking to offer shares via the Internet and drastically cut costs including; Chief Executive Officers, Chief Financial Officers, Managing Directors, General Managers, Investor Relations Managers, Underwriters, Stock Exchange Executives, Venture Capitalists, Investment Bankers, Private Company Executives, Business Development Executives, Technology and Business Press and all those seeking to explore opportunities on the emerging Internet marketplace DAY ONE March 19, 1997 Chairman: Brad W. Smith, President, WBS & A, Ltd. 8:30 REGULATORY CONSIDERATIONS ON INTERNET PUBLIC OFFERINGS This session will review the many regulatory and legislative issues involved in the development of Internet public offerings. In particular, how and why the regulatory bodies of the NASD, NASDAQ and the SEC are making a commitment to the Internet as a vehicle that serves the investor. Proper surveillance procedures have been created and executed to protect all parties. Internet initiatives have been developed to bridge the market side and regulatory side of these complex issues. Al Dandridge, Associate Director of Corporate Finance U.S. SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION Charles Bennett, Associate Director of Corporate Finance NASD 9:30 INTERNET TRADING MARKET PROJECTIONS Internet trading is an emerging market wave that is poised for explosive growth. More than 60 million investors have brokerage accounts. The media reports that Internet brokerage accounts will jump from 1.5 million today to 9.3 million by the year 2001; Every bank will use the Internet to attract customers and deliver services in the next five years and electronic commerce will grow to $600 billion annually within the next 10 years. Visionaries believe that one of the most profound effects of these phenomena's will be to changehow small businesses get capitalized. They predict that small business public offerings will become routine for nano-cap companies. This session will present a strategic overview of the emergence of internet capabilities that make it possible for investors to invest in and trade nano-cap company stocks. Brad Smith, President WBS & A, Ltd. bradwsmith(a)aol.com 11:00 GOING PUBLIC: HOW TO RAISE CAPITAL THROUGH A DIRECT PUBLIC OFFERING (DPO) This session will explore from concept to completion, how to perform all of the necessary functions to prepare and market a DPO and/or an Internet DPO. A case study will be shared of a DPO that will be presented to the investment community world-wide in early 1997. Learn from the experts the specifics on how to take your company where you want to go and ensure success including: Marketing through an investor relations firm Choosing an appropriate analyst Utilizing a transfer agent The link between broker and internet commerce David A. Levonian, President INTERNATIONAL INVESTOR RELATIONS http://iirwebtv.net 1:00 OVERCOMING THE PITFALLS AND CHALLENGES OF GOING PUBLIC The advantages of "going public" appear straight forward. The company accesses the capital it needs to expand or refine its product. (In a purely coincidental occurrence, the current shareholder [including investment bankers, SEC lawyers and stock brokers] get rich.) There are numerous challenges in conquering the process of "going public" including: There are problems with the lawyers, accountants and the bankers and they are on YOUR SIDE There are pounds of paper forms which must be submitted to every group, not to mention the SEC. However, an approved offering does not make a successful offering. It still must be marketed, either by stock brokers OR MAYBE directly over the Internet. And not just to the U.S., but to the entire world. That may be the wave of the future. Direct access to securities and their offering companies over the Internet. Michael J. Waddell, President PROMARKETING, INC. Developer of the (http://www.freemarket.org) selected by PC Novice Guide to the Web as one of the Internet "Greatest Sites" 2:00 IPONET: SELLING & ADVERTISING IPO'S ON THE INTERNET: THE CREATION OF THE FIRST PERMANENT SYNDICATE IPOnet is currently the only site on the Internet with clearance from the SEC to advertise and sell new security offerings online. IPOnet intends to have multiple Broker/Dealers listed on it's site. This will create the first permanent syndicate of Broker/Dealers. These Broker/Dealers will act as selected dealers for each others offerings and act as underwriters of their own offerings. This session will examine the following topics: Why the broker can not be eliminated from the offerings What really happens when an IPO is put on the Internet Why DPO's will never be a major threat to brokers Why a permanent syndicate will foster the creation of new offerings Leo J. Feldman, President IPONET http://www.e-iponet.com lfeldman(a)e-iponet.com 3:30 THE IMPORTANCE OF TRADITIONAL EXCHANGES AS A SECONDARY MARKET Taking your company public via the Internet, rather than the traditional exchange, has become a very viable alternative for small business owners. However, unless the offering is backed by a complete marketing plan, it is unlikely that the offering will reap huge financial rewards and achieve success. Incorporating a traditional exchange as a secondary market into the plan can solidify, stabilize and extend the offering beyond the Internet marketplace and create longevity and security and financial return on your offering. This session will explore secondary markets and how traditional exchanges are advocating the collaborative efforts of traditional and web offerings. Iris Golden Brackett, Manager Listing Sales CHICAGO STOCK EXCHANGE 4:30 Panel Discussion: PUBLIC OFFERINGS AND THE INTERNET: LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS Join three of the most influential Internet finance and securities attorneys for this highly interactive session. They will discuss the legal aspects associated with buying and selling securities on the Internet, including private placement, Regulation A offerings and independent public offerings. Come prepared to share your challenges and solutions! William D. Evers, Esq. MILLER, MAILLIARD & CULVER M. Greg Allio, Esq. SHARTSIS, FRIESE & GINSBERG John Perkins, Chairman THE SMALL BUSINESS CAPITAL ACCESS ASSOCIATION Charles Bennett, Associate Director of Corporate Finance NASD 5:45 CLOSE OF DAY ONE DAY TWO March 20, 1997 8:15 ELECTRONIC BULLETIN BOARDS FOR BID AND ASK OFFERS: THE EMERGENCE OF DIRECT STOCK MARKET The secondary market is the key to successful initial and direct public offerings. The traditional brokerage community has their hands tied when it comes to underwriting and making markets in small company issues. A new strata of corporate finance is being created by technological advances which marry capital requirements of entrepreneurs with risk/return and information demands of investors. This presentation will explore: Using the internet to raise capital for your company Secondary market trading on the Internet Virtual roadshows online Building your own public venture capital portfolio Investing in public venture funds Clay Womack, President DIRECT STOCK MARKET http://www.direct-stock-market.com 9:15 EXPLOITING INTERNET TECHNOLOGY TO REACH A GLOBAL AUDIENCE The power of the Internet has unleashed the potential for new business expansion and financial opportunity in a global market. Foreign businesses can now join forces quickly to create products and services and offer them to a larger population than before. This session will examine how to cultivate these partnerships, foster growth and secure positive financial outcomes by: Using the Web to build your business and partnering with co-opitition Attracting "qualified" people to your site Exploring value-added opportunities in the financial market on the Internet Michael Withrow, Director POWERTRADER, INC. http://www.powertrader.axionet.com 10:45 UNDERSTANDING THE COMPONENTS OF A STOCK TRANSFER Choosing a transfer agent with diversity of services allows your company to do more and retain extra added-value components and services. This session will take you step-by-step through the IPO process from working with attorneys through to the transfer work. Learn how to: How to judicate a stock transfer Outline the processes needed Develop the steps involved Anticipate the role of the Internet in stock transfers Sherri Herman, President THE HERMAN GROUP, INC. SMALL BUSINESS CAPITAL ACCESS ASSOCIATION 1:00 INTERNET TRANSACTIONS FOR THE PORTFOLIO MANAGER This session will feature case studies and the future outlook on internet transactions for portfolio managers including: What is the Electronic/Internet Information System? -Office based and wireless -Text and video How is it used? -The two way information flows -Routine and custom information Specific needs and requirements for the portfolio manager and ways of customizing the information What are the advantages of the new system? Costs and tools of the system -Dollars -Technology -Savvy and advertising John Palicka, CFA, CMT Portfolio Manager GLOBAL EMERGING GROWTH 2:30 INTERNET OPPORTUNITIES FOR PUBLIC COMPANIES This session will focus on opportunities available on the Internet to companies that are publicly traded. A presentation no senior executive should miss! This presentation will examine why public companies should consider the added profitability of the Internet and offer specific Internet strategies and risks including: Using the Internet to improve liquidity Build a stock analyst following using the Internet Dealing with Motley Fool's and other potential risks M. Greg Allio, Partner SHARTSIS FRIESE & GINSBERG 3:30 CREATING AN ELECTRONIC STOCK EXCHANGE Exploiting IP-Understanding Internet Protocol (IP) - How to make your business grow ON-LINE by using the "best of" all available software Order Driven Systems- Understanding why market makers & specialists are a "necessary evil" we live with, and look at the functionality of SuperDot-type automation as opposed to Drop Copy A Virtual Branch Office- The growth of the independent brokerage industry, and a look at what will happen to the traditional registered representative Compliance/Supervision- How a small brokerage firm will supervise their representatives in the Internet age Ken Gruneisen, President & CEO, BEST EX, INC. THE BOCA RATON ELECTRONIC STOCK EXCHANGE 5:30 END OF CONFERENCE Post Conference Workshops ------------------------- 9:00am - 12:00pm The Impact of the World Wide Web on Individual Investors and Electronic Stock Trading 1pm - 4pm Building the partnership between Electronic Commerce and Raising Capital1pm - 4pm ---------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Commerce Solutions in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$? Help pay for it! See <http://www.shipwright.com/rah.html> Or, for e$/e$pam sponsorship, see <http://www.shipwright.com/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here're wee additions to your archive: I subbed to cp-unedited from the first, so could compare the unedited messages with the edited. Some of mine(*) were edited, including a few on the Stronghold topic. But to me that's not as big a deal as some want to make of it. For example, in response to Tim's request to repost DV's Stronghold ploy, I did so, and it was edited. Sandy sent me a courteous email stating that he was not forwarding the message. I answered that that was okay with me because I thought that DV was using the issue as a ploy to undermine Sandy. Hey, there were no legal or other threats made to me, darn it! Another of my edited messages stated that there had been good discussion on the unedited list about DV's Denial of Service attack on Cypherpunks. Another noted that DV had been admirably successful in drawing others into his fight -- in support and in opposition -- as part of his DoS. Another questioned "Who's Censoring Who?" and offered the opinion that "censorship" rhetorically exaggerated Sandy's moderation. (I still believe that's the case.) For what it's worth, I oppose moderation, but favor experimentation, in the recognition that humans are near-endlessly adaptable and near- uncontrollable no matter what control mechanisms are employed -- anarchy is the norm whether advocated or not. So, I think the moderation experiment was a success, in that it has led to an unexpectedly constructive reconfiguration of Cypherpunks -- and not the last, that's for sure -- and showed that any archy is wishful dreaming of tortured hearts and minds and loins. A one hand applause to Dr. V and archy-demolishers for vibrating the c'punks house the way SATAN did bigger shoddy piles. Two hands to TCM for more memorable quaking of structure-bunkered c'punks and others. ----- * I'll supply copies of messages cited if you like.

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Re: Cypherpunks-announce? Do we need to recreate this?
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Now that cypherpunks is moving, to both a newsgroup and one or more > mailing lists, there's still a need for cypherpunks-announce or > something like it. So far it's carried 1-2 announcements per month. > > Should we create it as a mailing list, moderated or unmoderated, > or as a newsgroup? (It's been a moderated mailing list, run by John and > Hugh.) I newsgrouped several sub groups along with alt.cypherpunks. alt.cypherpunks.announce alt.cypherpunks.social alt.cypherpunks.technical but they do not appear to have taken effect (my local news server refuses to see them). Can anyone else see them? - If not I`ll have a word with my newsadmin. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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RAM CHIP SALE!
by Rhode Island Business Net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer (fwd)
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"ravage(a)EINSTEIN.ssz.com" "Jim Choate" 12-FEB-1997 23:19:40.35 >> From: "E. Allen Smith" <EALLENSMITH(a)ocelot.rutgers.edu> >> Someone with more experience correct me if I'm wrong (I'm just >> starting to learn about mailing list management), but isn't saving >> at least the first bounce from a given address good in order to check >> what address is the one that's actually bouncing? Admittedly, this only >> applies to badly-formed bounces. The rest can just have the address >> noted. >Hmmm, I can see saving the address causing the bounce in some sort of array >that is indexed to the majordomo subscription list for a given remailer. It >would not cost anything but overhead to save the entire message. I guess my >motivation was not that I cared their mailbox was full or it was a invalid >address but that I wouldn't be able to deliver at this time. I just don't >see any reason that it helps me to know why they can't receive mail only that >they can't. Well, if you can't deliver mail because their mailbox is full, then you should simply wait a few days before trying to deliver mail to that address. If it's because the address isn't there any more, you should delete it from the subscription lists. Otherwise, the instant people's mail quotas overflow (e.g., they're on AOL and they haven't been able to get through the clogged lines), they get bounced... or you're left with a lot of invalid addresses. The address causing the bounce is not necessarily determinable automatically from the bounce message; if it isn't, then you need to keep a copy around for a human to look at. [re: bi-directional news-mail gateways] >> >Want to volunteer? >> >> Give me some idea of how much programming knowledge, time, etcetera >> is required, please, before I can answer. I'd be renting space on some other >> computer (e.g., an account on cyberpass.net) to do it in; the only higher-level >> programming language (i.e., beyond Applesoft Basic) that I know anything of >> is Perl (and I don't know that all that well); and I am somewhat busy with >> other stuff. In other words, it depends. >Hmmm, not shure how much programming it would take - never done it myself. >I think Perl would be an acceptable language. I certainly hope to do the >majority of the scripts on the CDR in Perl myself. Perhaps there is somebody >who knows the fine points of how INN cache's messages. Redbeard and I had a >short discussion about this issue today relating to tracking messages to >reduce mail-loops. I will discuss it with him and see what happens. Given that there are pre-existing news-mail gateways, I'd think that the programs should be available. My concern on the programming is more in the realm of keeping the thing up and running. >I know exactly what you mean. I have two full-time jobs and hadn't really >thought of taking on the cpunks list in any manner. But hey, that is the >spice in life... Understood; my busy-ness with other stuff comes from being a grad student. >Give me a couple of days to look at the situation and if somebody don't beat >me to it I'll post what I find out. Cool? Looks OK. I'll also take a look around for what information I can find. -Allen

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CompuServe reports e-mail court victory
by Vipul Ved Prakash 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** CompuServe reports e-mail court victory CompuServe, after winning a court decision making unauthorized junk e-mail illegal, responded Thursday to a report that Cyber Promotions, Inc., a commercial mass e-mailer, would not accept a federal court's halting of its spamming activities directed against CompuServe subscribers. Cyber Promotions indicated that it would appeal the decision, which follows the settlement of a similar suit. That settlement allows Cyber Promotions to send junk e-mail to another Internet service provider's members. CompuServe said its goal "was to see this through to a binding court decision." For the full text story, see http://www.merc.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=1425511-f29 -- Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto vipul(a)pobox.com | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Multimedia

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Re: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer (fwd)
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"ravage(a)EINSTEIN.ssz.com" "Jim Choate" 12-FEB-1997 23:19:40.35 To: IN%"cypherpunks(a)toad.com" CC: Subj: RE: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer (fwd) Received: from toad.com by mbcl.rutgers.edu (PMDF #12194) id <01IFCGV6E7PC94GG0G(a)mbcl.rutgers.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:18 EDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA13474; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:59:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:59:05 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Choate <ravage(a)EINSTEIN.ssz.com> Subject: RE: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer (fwd) Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Message-id: <199702130159.RAA13474(a)toad.com> X-Envelope-to: EALLENSMITH Precedence: bulk Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:47 EDT > From: "E. Allen Smith" <EALLENSMITH(a)ocelot.rutgers.edu> > Subject: Re: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer (fwd) > > Someone with more experience correct me if I'm wrong (I'm just > starting to learn about mailing list management), but isn't saving > at least the first bounce from a given address good in order to check > what address is the one that's actually bouncing? Admittedly, this only > applies to badly-formed bounces. The rest can just have the address > noted. Hmmm, I can see saving the address causing the bounce in some sort of array that is indexed to the majordomo subscription list for a given remailer. It would not cost anything but overhead to save the entire message. I guess my motivation was not that I cared their mailbox was full or it was a invalid address but that I wouldn't be able to deliver at this time. I just don't see any reason that it helps me to know why they can't receive mail only that they can't. [re: bi-directional news-mail gateways] >> >Want to volunteer? >> >> Give me some idea of how much programming knowledge, time, etcetera >> is required, please, before I can answer. I'd be renting space on some other >> computer (e.g., an account on cyberpass.net) to do it in; the only higher-level >> programming language (i.e., beyond Applesoft Basic) that I know anything of >> is Perl (and I don't know that all that well); and I am somewhat busy with >> other stuff. In other words, it depends. >Hmmm, not shure how much programming it would take - never done it myself. >I think Perl would be an acceptable language. I certainly hope to do the >majority of the scripts on the CDR in Perl myself. Perhaps there is somebody >who knows the fine points of how INN cache's messages. Redbeard and I had a >short discussion about this issue today relating to tracking messages to >reduce mail-loops. I will discuss it with him and see what happens. So far as I can tell, there are two types of news2mail gateways in common usage: newsgate, which is in C, and the standard LISTSERV bit.listserv.* gatewaying. I don't know C and don't have that much reason to learn it (perl makes a lot more sense to me); therefore, I'd need to locate a perl version or let someone else take care of the actual programming end of it, with me just handling what the programming person didn't. Hmm... I wonder if Lance would be available for the programming? I'd probably be using an account on cyberpass.net for the gateway in any event. -Allen

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