December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

New Hampshire INTERNET SIG Meeting, Tuesday, April 1, 1997
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text To: nh-isig(a)bcs1.ziplink.net, isig(a)signet.org, talk(a)web-net.org, discuss(a)tarnhelm.blu.org, dubie(a)tnpubs.enet.dec.com, scryberdave <ltcdave(a)scryber.com> Subject: New Hampshire INTERNET SIG Meeting, Tuesday, April 1, 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 97 09:55:47 -0500 From: "Jerry Feldman" <gaf(a)zk3.dec.com> X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-isig(a)signet.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: isig(a)signet.org When: Tuesday April 1, 1997 7PM Where: Nashua, NH Public Library, 2 Court St, Nashua, NH. Topic: Robert Hettinga, founding moderator of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston. The NH INTERNET SIG (Special Interest Group) welcomes you to its monthly meeting, the first Tuesday of every month. The next meeting will be on April 1st and will focus on the technology and social consequences of digital commerce and financial cryptography. Mr. Hettinga is also general chair of Financial Cryptography 1997, the world's first conference on Financial Cryptography. However, financial cryptography, the technology which underlies digital commerce in its most secure form, will have much more profound implications than merely the simplification of sales and distribution. It permits us to make anonymous *cash* transactions for everything from a billion-dollar foriegn exchange trade to, probably, the switching of internet packets themselves. If this promise is kept, it could change the fundamentals of our entire society. Please check out Mr. Hettinga's web site:http://www.vmeng.com/rah/ This meeting promises to be fun and informative for both the technical and non-technical computer users. For more information contact Ken Adams at (603) 598-1823 eMail: director(a)nh-isig.org For more information contact Jerry Feldman <gaf(a)signet.org>, NH-ISIG meeting coordinator.. Mailing list: nh-isig(a)bcs1.ziplink.net WWW: http://www.nh-isig.org NOTE: Empire.net is currently moving the web site to a new server. Please bear with us while the work is in progress. I have posted a more complete description and speaker bio at:http://www.gis.net/~gaf/hettinga.html Directions to the Nashua Public Library (Plenty of free parking after 5PM): >From south of Nashua: Take Route 3 North to Nashua. Take exit 5E, Route 111 East (Kinsley St., There is a Howard Johnson's Motel at the exit). Follow 111 East (Kinsley St.) to the fourth set of lights and Main St. North. Turn left onto Main St. and at the third set of lights turn right onto Temple St. Take Temple St. to 2nd left onto Cottage Avenue (Behind Indian Head Plaza) into Library's metered parking lot. (Meters in force 9AM to 5PM only). >From North of Nashua: Take the Everett Turnpike (Rte. 3) to Exit 7-E, 101A (Amherst St.) Follow 101A to major intersection and turn right onto Main St. Follow Main St. and turn left at the second set of lights onto Temple St. Take Temple St. to 2nd left onto Cottage Avenue (Behind Indian Head Plaza) into Library's metered parking lot. (Meters in force 9AM to 5PM only). -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ Jerry Feldman gaf(a)SigNet.org New Hampshire Internet SIG Meeting Coordinator +-------------------------------------------------------------+ -- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo(a)bcs1.ziplink.net with the following text in the *body* (*not* the subject line) of the letter: unsubscribe isig --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/

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Hash functions
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy May's father, an idiot, stumbled across Timmy May's mother, an imbecile, when she had no clothes on. Nine months later she had a little moron. /\ __/__\__ | 00 | Timmy May |: \ :| | \_/| \__/

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Re: Corrupted "From:" headers in my posts
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hal Finney wrote: > > Several people have noted that my posts have had duplicate "From:" lines. > In a recent message > where I quoted Greg Broiles, the headers > has From: lines both from me and Greg. > Apologies to those who have been bothered by this problem > with my posts. Hal, I began reading the post, thinking it was from Greg, and I had a heart attack because I thought he was finally making sense. I will be suing for medical expenses. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: Tim C. May's Interpretation of the U.K. Proposal
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Huge Cajones Remailer <nobody(a)huge.cajones.com> wrote in article <5h8e8u$b3h(a)life.ai.mit.edu>... > Timothy C. May wrote: > > > > The U.K. may sense that, absent such "local content" laws, the market for > > key signings, time-stamping, and other services will naturally concentrate > > in certain markets. Longer term, the concentration may be more > > globalized, or even in "cyberspace," but almost certainly not in Britain. > > Nations may thus fear this flight of such services to other countries. I think that this is not quite accurate. To begin it is necessary to understand the different relationship of the Civil Service and the executive in the UK. Unlike in the US the CiVil service is apolitical, it prepares policy advice for ministers but couched in guarded terms. It explains the advantages and disadvantages of particular policies while avoiding conclusions. Thus it is a mistake to read too much into briefing papers. What really count are green and white papers. Green papers are the first draft of policy and frequently involve "kite flying" exercises. A proposal to implement GAK in a green paper may equally well be intended as a signal to opponents to put their case more coherently as a positive affirmation of the policy. The UK is currently having a general election which barring a resurgence by the Liberals the socialists will win. If you thought Bob Dole's campaign was dire watch the UK Conservatives for sheer and frequently adulterous incompetence. Ten Tory MPs have been accused of accepting bribes and the Govt manipulated the date of porogueing (ie suspending) parliament before it was disolved for the election to suppress publication of the report into the affair. Since two case have been proven beyond reasonable doubt this is a bad start to say the least. Traditionally the socialist are far more likely to support civil liberties than the Conservatives. The Liberals have the best record but the best they can hope for is to become the opposition in place of the Tories. During the years of Tory rule left wing political organisations such as CND have been monitored by MI5. Crypto will undoubtedly have support from the far left who have frequently been the target of politically motivated surveillance. > Tim, at his best, interprets the U.K. laws from both a global and > local perspective. > Certainly, any actions of the U.K., in particular, should be viewed > from the lingering shadow of the British Commonwealth. The U.K., having > ruled an Empire, is much more cognizant of the implications of how the > structure of proposed legislation will affect the expansion of global > aims, or the protection of indigeonous rule. The UK has also traditionally understood cryptography policy far better than the US. During both World Wars the US managed to persue a crypto policy of quite astonishing boneheadedness. > Although "local content," as Tim points out, is undeniably one > of the major factors behind the legislation, the U.K. is also > undoubtedly positioning themselves to resist letting the *power* > that comes from information *control* fall into the hands of > others. Its not legislation, nor even a proposal to legislate. Its one side in a discussion document. No need to panic! Instead we need to make sure we have a coherent lobbying strategy. To effectively lobby the UK government you don't need vast amounts of cash but having a permanent office to coordinate grass roots activity is usefull. Corporations with a heavy UK involvement such as IBM and DEC would be usefull sponsors, not so much for the cash as for links to constituency MPs. Also note that now is a good time to press the issue. The US administrations policy on Cuba has greatly discredited it abroad. The Helms-Burton act is a clear attack on other nations sovereignty, that its primary sponsor is notorious as a racist hatemonger makes matters worse. Similarly a US attack on the computer systems of the EU during the GATT negotiations has not been forgiven. Proposals to allow the US to break secret messages in other countries are correspondingly unpopular. Phill

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Depends / Re: Senate spams
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > > At 01:26 AM 2/28/97 -0600, snow wrote: > >> At 01:41 AM 2/27/97 -0800, Toto wrote: > >> > I didn't see a single post on CypherPunks where anyone expressed the > >> >least problem with pure, unmitigated spam being deleted. > > Greg Broiles wrote: > >> My point precisely. The question is not "is it useful to eliminate some > >> messages from the list?", but "which messages shall we eliminate?". > > > > This is mis-direction, and I believe it is deliberate on Boiles > >part. > > > > The question isn't "which messages shall we eliminate"--which implies > >that the original writer was seeking to silence _someone_, but rather > >given that there are [many some a-few] messages being sent to this list that > >are sent by non-human entities (bots, auto-replies, bounces etc.) is there > >a way to avoid propigating them. > > Will you count Raph's remailer statistics as "machine generated" and > exclude them, too? Only asinine, dip-shit numbskulls would be capable of making this idiotic extrapolation. Why am I not surprised it came from Greg? > Many/most of the "spam" messages are sent to the list because someone > (either the author, or a third party) wanted them to be sent to the list. > The fact that one or more machines are used to carry out that person's > wishes is irrelevant. We're not talking about the effects of alpha > particles or honest mistakes, we're talking about a deliberate choice to > send some content to the list. More DoubleSpeak transposing the issues of Spam and content. > And we're apparently talking about other > people choosing to override that choice to send content to the list, on the > basis of dislike for the sender, the sender's purpose, or the content of > the message. No we're not, Greg. _You_ seem to be the only one speaking of censorship based on personality, agendas and content. (Try to keep in mind that the thoughts and words of others are no longer being censored by your associates.) > And, like Toto said, there's nobody left who's arguing (modulo the > Freedom-Knights guy, whose name escapes me at the moment, who may not > really be on the list, haven't seen anything from him in a week or so) > against all censorship, just people arguing against censorship that they > don't like or done by people they don't trust, but in favor of censorship > they do like, or done by people they do trust. Toto is calling Greg a lying fuck who deliberately disseminates misinformation as to the stances taken by others. Greg seem to have taken it upon himself to provide a misinterpretation of the posts of others, even though those posts are available for people to read for themselves, making their own judgements as to what they say. I have maintained from the beginning that there needs to be a CypherPunks list which is free from filtering in any way, shape or form. I have also maintained that the interests of crypto would also be served by the maintenance of lists which offer filtering services by those who wish to provide them--even a CypherPunks-NoToto list. Anyone who read my post to Igor, suggesting that I would have no problem with him intercepting autobot-replies that result from mailbomb attacks, also knows that I suggested even the empty spam-messages being deleted should be stored where they are open to scrutiny, and that I, for one, would indeed be scrutinizing them. For Greg to purport that the interception of mail-bomb attacks equates somehow to content/personality censorship is unmitigated bullshit aimed at the dim-witted (of which I believe there are very few of on any of the CypherPunks lists). If Greg would like to put forth a logical train of thought which compares the interception of empty auto-bot messages generated in response to the forged posts of a mailbomb attack with Sandy's fascist censorship methods (which Greg eloquently described, but misdirected their source), then I would like to see it. > I don't see anything morally wrong with deliberately altering the flow of > messages to and through the list, but I think it's bad form to pretend not > to be doing that. Who is doing this, Greg? Name names. Give us an example of who is doing this and pretending not to do it. Why are your claims so vague? -- Toto ----------------------------- "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk writes: > > > > No, you 'all' have it wrong. > > > The censorship experiment was actually the result of the tremendous > > > amount of envy on the list over my having a 16" dick. > > > > So when a super babe says she wants a man with a 12" dick, do you > > have to go cut off 4 inches? Me being only 11", I just have to give > > her up. > > I always said this list would degenerate into a penis size > competition ;-) ITAR-relevant urban legend: once the Soviet government order 10K dozen 8" condoms in the U.S. and the Nixon administration made sure that each one was stamped "medium". > Paul (18") Bradley --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: GAK
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy May was born when his mother was on the toilet. _ {~} ( V-) Timmy May '|Y|' _|||_

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Re: NWLibs> Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> writes: > >Objective journalism, my lily white butt. Journalists are whores - just ask Declan "Censorship" McCullough. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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ANNOUNCE: "Digital Money Online" report released 24 Feb 97
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Sender: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com Reply-To: Rachel Willmer <rachel(a)intertrader.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: Bulk Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:53:28 +0000 From: Rachel Willmer <rachel(a)intertrader.com> To: Multiple recipients of <e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com> Subject: ANNOUNCE: "Digital Money Online" report released 24 Feb 97 Digital Money Online Intertrader Ltd February 1997 Intertrader is pleased to announce the release of this 50 page report, which compares several current and future digital money technologies, such as Mondex, Cybercash and First Virtual. Available online at <http://www.intertrader.com/library/DigitalMoneyOnline/dmo/dmo.htm> or you can download a PDF copy at <http://www.intertrader.com/library/DigitalMoneyOnline/dmo/order.htm> All comments welcome! Regards Rachel P.S. This report supersedes the previous "Electronic Transaction Protocols". -- Rachel Willmer, Intertrader Ltd, Cova House, 4 John's Place, Edinburgh Email: rachel(a)intertrader.com Tel: +44 131 555 8450 Fax: +44 131 555 8451 Sun Internet Associate and winner of 1996 SMART Award for Innovation "We develop Java Commerce Solutions" ---------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Commerce Solutions in the UK Visit for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$? Help pay for it! See Or, for e$/e$pam sponsorship, see Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer Commermeister: Anthony Templer Interturge: Rodney Thayer --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> writes: > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > > Toto wrote: > > > Who is the janitor at the Japenese embassy in New York City? > > > What is the postal code of Mule Shoe, Texas? > > > Who is buried in Grant's Tomb? > > > > Grant? > > One out of three gets you a green card, Igor. Look up the postal code > for Muleshoe, Texas, and you get a citizenship card. > If you can name the janitor at the Japanese embassy, however, you'll > probably be indicted for espionage. It's unnatural to be a U.S. citizen because most people aren't. I used to walk my dogs by Grant's tomb. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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