December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

USA_exe (Kiddie porn on the Net)
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sep 21, 1996 16:19:53, 'jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com>' wrote: >Pardon me, but what's wrong with this? Follow the news more closely, and >you'll hear of a group which is operating in southern Mexico, the "EPR," which >is killing off government employees, politicians, and police. True, they're >not implementing the mathematical, digital-cash basis behind AP, but they see >to be making good progress against the corruption which is Mexico. >Increase their productivity by a factor of 10, and the Mexican government would >be terrified. Increase it by 100, and the Mexican government would fall within >a few months. -------- Jim's makes a good, if gruesome, point here, about the vicious realities of do-or-die AP, by even our own apple pie government. The Washington Post reports at length today on the Defense Department's disclosure yesterday of heretofore classified trainging manuals used in the School of the Americas to instruct Latino troops on killing a wide range of civilians for political purposes. To read "Army Instructed Latins On Executions, Torture," about your tax dollars working the AP angle: http://jya.com/usaexe.txt USA_exe

1 0

Music Boulevard Birthday Sale - 10% Off!
by mblvd＠telebase.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Music Boulevard User: Come to the Music Boulevard Birthday Blowout Sale! All CDs are 10% off of our already discounted prices. The sale is going on now, but will only last for a limited time, so make sure you visit http://www.musicblvd.com soon! The World Wide Web's ultimate online music store, Music Boulevard allows music lovers around the world to quickly and easily purchase products and learn about their favorite artists in an exciting and entertaining multimedia environment. Users can browse through a massive catalog of more than 150,000 different music titles, read artist biographies and discographies, check out album reviews, view cover artwork and listen to the Internet's largest selection of audio samples. Thank you, Music Boulevard Staff p.s. If you don't want to receive messages like this in the future, please send us a note at service(a)musicblvd.com with the word 'remove' in the subject line.

1 0

Re: The GAK Momentum is Building...
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:56 AM 9/22/96, jim bell wrote: >But as usual, you ignore the obvious solution to the problem. Let's suppose >the amount of the fine is set at $1000 per day. Actuarially, this works out .... >Naturally, you won't even consider the possibility of going outside the >system to solve a problem. The rest of us notice that there are probably >thousands of terminally-ill people who would gladly act as a human kamikaze ... I get the feeling that the "standard form letter" for all such invocations of AP is turning out to be: "Suppose you owe somebody money. It is much cheaper just to use AP to have him killed." Indeed, this "simple" solution is ever so much cheaper than paying a fine, repaying a loan, fulfilling an obligation, whatever. (P.S. The hiring of terminally-ill kamikazes is an old one.) --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

1 0

William Torbitt (pseudonym)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:53 AM 9/22/96, Dale Thorn wrote: >A few years ago, William Torbitt (pseudonym) wrote in part: "Penal codes >have had two historic purposes - to deter crime and reform the offender. >.....However, when the head of the National Police agency joins with a >handful of other govt. leaders, and they both in turn throw in with >organized crime to murder the president, and the people have an uneasy >feeling that something of this nature has taken place, it is only >natural that crime and violence increase, and the basic deterrent to >crime has broken down." (quote approximate) Presumably the same William Torbitt (psuedonym) who wrote the Samizdat-distributed "Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal." (One of the best treatments of the various swirling connections surrounding the JFK assassination and related CIA-Mob-Giancana-Hughes-Castro-etc. connections.) That Torbitt was a pseudonym has some connection to the themes of our list. It is believed by many--and it sounds plausible to me--that the actual author was a knowledgeable Texas attorney who had gained much familiarity with the facts of the case and, circa 1966-68, wrote his extended pamphlet "The Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal." Fearing likely sanctions, both professional and personal, he chose not to use his real name, and pamphlet circulated informally, without a formal publisher. (It is not written in a wacko-style, so I don't dismiss it as the ravings of a loon.) I haven't checked to see if its on the Web. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

2 1

Re: Assassination Politics, was Kiddie porn on the Internet
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:56 AM 9/22/96 -0400, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > >On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, jim bell wrote: > >> At 01:51 PM 9/17/96 -0700, Steve Schear wrote: >> >>On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Steve Schear wrote: >> >> >> >>> Someone wrote: >> >>> We've all heard these arguments, but are they true? Who says so, and how >> >>> can they be certain? Jim's suggestion has never, to my knowledge, been >> >>> tried on a consistant, large, scale. When all conventional alternatives >> >>> have been tried and fail, what have we or the starving children got to >> >>> lose? >> >> >> >>I think "Lord of the Flies" answers this question quite well. >> > >> >Does it? LOTF was fiction. Can you identify a recent instance in which a >> >non-governmental organization attempted to influence political/military >> >events via a concerted AP? >> > >Where is Jimmy Hoffa? And it worked! Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

1 0

Re: USA_exe
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:23 AM 9/22/96 GMT, John Young wrote: >On Sep 21, 1996 16:19:53, 'jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com>' wrote: >>Pardon me, but what's wrong with this? Follow the news more closely, and >>you'll hear of a group which is operating in southern Mexico, the "EPR," which >>is killing off government employees, politicians, and police. True, they're >>not implementing the mathematical, digital-cash basis behind AP, but they >see >>to be making good progress against the corruption which is Mexico. >>Increase their productivity by a factor of 10, and the Mexican government would >>be terrified. Increase it by 100, and the Mexican government would fall within >>a few months. > > >Jim's makes a good, if gruesome, point here, about the vicious realities of >do-or-die AP, by even our own apple pie government. > > >The Washington Post reports at length today on the Defense Department's >disclosure yesterday of heretofore classified trainging manuals used in the >School of the Americas to instruct Latino troops on killing a wide range of >civilians for political purposes. >To read "Army Instructed Latins On Executions, Torture," about your tax >dollars working the AP angle: > >http://jya.com/usaexe.txt This article is so wonderfully appropriate to the discussion that I can't resist re-posting it here. I think the part about only discovering the problem in 1992 after 10 years is particularly precious. In addition, I notice that a listing of the appropriate targets these army people were supposed to "neutralize" are listed as: The manual on "Terrorism and the Urban Guerrilla" says that "another function of the CI agents is recommending CI targets for neutralizing. The CI targets can include personalities, installations, organizations, documents and materials ... the personality targets prove to be valuable sources of intelligence. Some examples of these targets are governmental officials, political leaders, and members of the infrastructure." full article posted below: The Washington Post, September 21, 1996, pp. A1, A9. Army Instructed Latins On Executions, Torture Manuals Used 1982-91, Pentagon Reveals By Dana Priest U.S. Army intelligence manuals used to train Latin American military officers at an Army school from 1982 to 1991 advocated executions, torture, blackmail and other forms of coercion against insurgents, Pentagon documents released yesterday show. Used in courses at the U.S. Army's School of the Americas, the manual says that to recruit and control informants, counterintelliigence agents could use "fear, payment of bounties for enemy dead, beatings, false imprisonment, executions and the use of truth serum," according to a secret Defense Department summary of the manuals compiled during a 1992 investigation of the instructional material and also released yesterday. A summary of the investigation and four pages of brief, translated excerpts from the seven Spanish-language manuals were released last night by the Defense Department, which recently has taken to making controversial information available in the evenings, after the deadlines of the prime-time network television news programs. The Army School of the Americas, long located in Panama but moved in 1984 to Fort Benning, Ga, has trained nearly 60,000 military and police officers from Latin America and the United States since 1946. Its graduates have included some of the region's most notorious human rights abusers, among them Roberto D'Aubuisson, the leader of El Salvador's right-wing death squads; 19 Salvadoran soldiers linked to the 1989 assassination of six Jesuit priests; Gen. Manuel Antonio Noriega, the deposed Panamanian strongman; six Peruvian officers linked to killings of students and a professor; and Col. Julio Roberto Alpirez, a Guatemalan officer implicated in the death of an American innkeeper living in Guatemala and to the death of a leftist guerrilla married to an American lawyer. The Defense Department said the school's curriculum now includes mandatory human rights training and it is an effective way to help promote military professionalism in a region where that concept is still nascent. "The problem was discovered in 1992, properly reported and fixed," said Lt. Col. Arne Owens, a Pentagon spokesman. "There have been a lot of great changes at the School of the Americas." When reports of the 1992 investigation surfaced this year during a congressional inquiry into the CIA's activities in Guatemala, spokesmen for the school denied the manuals advocated such extreme methods of operation, which were in violation of Army policy and law at the time they were in use. The 1992 investigation concluded the inclusion of the methods was the result of bureaucratic oversight. "It is incredible that the use ... since 1982 ... evaded the established system of doctrinal controls," said the report of the investigation, conducted by the office of the assistant to the secretary of defense for intelligence oversight. "Nevertheless, we could find no evidence that this was a deliberate and orchestrated attempt to violate DoD or Army policies." The manuals were complied by Army intelligence officials using "outdated instructional material without the required doctrinal approval" from the Army Intelligence School, the investigation report said. The material was based, in part, on training instructions used in the 1960s by the Army's Foreign Intelligence Assistance Program, entitled "Project X." The 1992 investigation also found the manual was distributed to thousands of military officers from 11 South and Central American countries, including Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras and Panama, where the U.S. military was heavily involved in counterinsurgency. One manual, entitled "Handling of Sources," also "discloses classified [informant] methodology that could compromise Army clandestine intelligence modus operandi," the 1992 investigation found. Another manual, entitled "Counterintelligence," contained "sensitive Army counterintelligence tactics, techniques and procedures." The Defense Department yesterday said the 1992 investigators found two dozen objectionable passages among the 1,169 pages of instruction. For instance, the manual entitled "Handling of Sources" says, "The CI [counterintelligence] agent could cause the arrest of the employees [informants] parents, imprison the employee or give him a beating" to coerce cooperation. On several occasions it uses the words "neutralization" or "neutralizing," which was commonly used at the time as a euphemism for execution or destruction, a Pentagon official said. The manual on "Terrorism and the Urban Guerrilla" says that "another function of the CI agents is recommending CI targets for neutralizing. The CI targets can include personalities, installations, organizations, documents and materials ... the personality targets prove to be valuable sources of intelligence. Some examples of these targets are governmental officials, political leaders, and members of the infrastructure." The Defense Department continues to try to collect the manuals but, as the 1992 investigation noted, "due to incomplete records, retrieval of all copies is doubtful." Rep. Joseph P. Kennedy II (D-Mass.), an advocate of closing the school, said in a statement last night that the manuals "show what we have suspected all along, that taxpayers' money has been used for physical abuse." Kennedy said, "The School of the Americas, a Cold War relic, should be shut down." [End] Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

1 0

Kill 'em and let God sort it out, was Re: The GAK Momentum is Building...
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> jim bell wrote: >Naturally, you won't even consider the possibility of going outside the >system to solve a problem. The rest of us notice that there are probably >thousands of terminally-ill people who would gladly act as a human kamikaze >and get rid of any judge inclined to impose such a fine, for a payment of 1% >of this principle amount to a family member or loved one, leaving 99% >available for the few other judges foolish enough to basically commit >suicide by taking up a futile gesture. > If AP came to be seen as an acceptable way for business and citizens to right egregious wrongs it would quickly lead to a 'law of the jungle' situation, which I think any sane person would reject as the cure being worse than the disease. However, if governemnts (especially ours) continue to expand their implied authority and greatly diminishing personal liberties we all took for granted were inaliable human rights (in our own best interest, of course), a time may come when a bit of rebellion may be the only viable alternative for self-correction. I pray it never comes to this, but Thomas Jefferson contemplating this said: "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. . . .What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?. . .The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson, regarding Shay's Rebellion and anarchy. PGP Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Snoop Daty Data | Internet: azur(a)netcom.com Grinder | Voice: 1-702-655-2877 Sacred Cow Meat Co. | Fax: 1-702-658-2673 7075 W. Gowan Road, #2148 | Las Vegas, NV 89129 | --------------------------------------------------------------------- Just say NO to prescription DRUGS.

1 0

Re: Bernstein hearing: The Press Release
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:30 PM 9/21/96 -0400, Mark M. wrote: >On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, jim bell wrote: > >> At the risk of being a devil's advocate, let me suggest that you are >> conceding too much even with the preceding paragraph. The 1st amendment >> says nothing about preventing speech which (even admittedly) would result >> in "direct, immediate, and irreparable damage to our nation or its people." > >I believe there is one section in the Constitution that says that speech >harmful to national security is not protected under the 1st amendment. I can't think of what portion of the Constitution you're referring to. But chances are, somebody else will see this reference and comment. > However, >I don't agree with this provision at all. "National security" is a phrase that >is applied to anything from information on the JFK assassination to DES source >code. ...and it's one of the most abused concepts there is. >> I could list many more, but won't because of lack of space. But notice >> that, presumably, each and every one of these incidents was AT ONE TIME kept >> secret, arguably because it would be better for the country to do so. Thus, >> presumably it was thought or at least asserted that to reveal them would >> cause "damage to our nation or its people." > >If secret information was released, it would cause most people to completely >lose respect for the government (some people call this damage -- I call it >progress). Yes! I, of course, agree with the latter interpretation as well. It is precisely this distinction which, I believe, makes it so vital that lawsuits such as this Bernstein one NOT "concede" what doesn't need to be conceded. All they should say is that even if there are secrets which the law should protect, they cannot include information known by civilians in peacetime. >> The way you've written the paragraph I've quoted above, it appears that you >> are somehow acknowleding that there are certain circumstances where certain >> types of speech are controllable because they are "harmful," but you fail to >> explain how even this constitutional restiction is tolerable. Frankly, I >> don't see it! What you need to do is to be far more specific about such >> speech and exactly where it can be controlled. > >There may be certain circumstances under which speech can be directly harmful. >Military operations and missle launch codes are things that should be kept >secret. Information about high-powered weapons should be too. If the Japanese >had been able to get information about how to build A-bombs during WWII, major >cities in the U.S. probably would have been completely wiped out. I don't like >the idea that the government has the power to decide what's harmful and what >isn't, but there are beneficial uses of the provision. The few examples that exist, as you've selected them above, seem to be almost entirely based on military secrets in time of war. It is not clear whether a non-security clearance civilian is restricted in any way, nor should he be. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

2 1

Continuing spam from Timmy May and his friends
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I recently sent the following article to this mailing list: ]To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com ]Subject: Re: DL in exchange for fingerprint ]From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) ]Comments: Dole/Kemp '96! ]Message-Id: <awTLuD1w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 96 08:00:57 EDT ]In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.94.960921021401.2717A-100000@polaris> ]Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. ] ]Black Unicorn <unicorn(a)schloss.li> writes: ]> > Do you simply drive without a valid driver's license? I know some folks who ]> > do, of course, but it's not something that's "worth it" to me. ]> ]> Some jurisdictions (D.C. is a good example) are such a joke it's not ]> funny. An associate of mine literally MADE his own Italian Driver's ]> license and turned it in, took an eye test, and walked out with a nice new ]> D.C. license. ] ]In NYC a very high percentage of drivers don't have licences, have suspended ]licences, etc. Generally no one has the time to bother with them unless they ]want to nail them for something else. A couple of years ago we were involved in ]a minor car accident with a Chassidic Jew who tried to leave the scene of the ]accident. My wife chased him and stopped him. :-) The cops came and discovered ]that he had no papers (including no driver's licence, no insurance, etc). They ]gave him about $500 worth of tickets for driving without a licence, leaving the ]scene of an accident, etc (which I rather doubt he was planning to pay) and let ]him drive on (still without the licence). ] ]--- ] ]Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM ]Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps I received the following e-mail from either Timmy May using an alternate account, or someone whose IQ is similar to Timmy's, in response: ]From Adamsc(a)io-online.com Sat Sep 21 22:40:36 1996 ]From: Adamsc(a)io-online.com (Adamsc) ]To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 96 19:40:29 -0800 ]Reply-To: "Chris Adams" <adamsc(a)io-online.com> ]X-Mailer: Chris Adams's Registered PMMail 1.52 For OS/2 ]X-Filtered: By PMMail 1.52 For OS/2 ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ]Subject: Re: Re: DL in exchange for fingerprint ]Message-Id: <19960922023957609.AAA206@GIGANTE> ] ] You are being gently flamed because. ] ] [X] you continued a boring useless stupid thread ] [ ] you repeatedly posted to the same thread that you just posted to ] [x] you repeatedly initiated incoherent, flaky, and mindless threads ] [x] you posted a piece riddled with profanities ] [ ] you advocated Net censorship ] [ ] you SCREAMED! (used all caps) ] [x] you posted some sort of crap that doesn't belong in this group ] [ ] you posted the inanely stupid 'Make Money Fast' article ] [ ] you threatened others with physical harm ] [x] you made a bigoted statement(s) ] [x] you repeatedly assumed unwarranted moral or intellectual superiority ] [x] you are under the misapprehension that this group is your preserve ] [x] you repeatedly shown lack of humor ] [x] you are apparently under compulsion to post to every threat ] [?] you are posting an anonymous attack ] ] >>> Thank you for the time you have taken to read this. Live n' Learn.<<< ] ] ] ]# Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp ]# cadams(a)acucobol.com | V.M. (619)515-4894 ]"I have never been able to figure out why anyone would want to play games on ]a computer in any case when the whole system is a game. Word processing, ]spreadsheets, telecoms -- it's all a game. And they pay you to play it." ] -- Duncan Frissell ] ] Just now I received about 2 dozen similar e-mails from this address, which therefore must be Timmy May's - I can't believe that there are two people on the 'net this stupid and obnoxious and prone to lying. In particular, I receive this spam from Timmy in response to each 'crypto-relevant wire clippings' post. Timmy May is definitely turning this mailing list into a political rant menagerie where cryptography discussions are not welcome. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

1 0

AP [was: Re: Kiddie porn on the Internet] [NOISE]
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:34 PM 9/21/96 -0400, Phill wrote: >[AP drivel deleted] >If it could the US would have assasinated Saddam by now. It can't because it >is too difficult to find out where exactly a person will be. It's perfectly doable, it's just not politically expedient. One reason is that if they kill Saddam, they no longer have an excuse to keep threatening and attacking Iraq and making themselves look good. Another is that National Leaders have a tacit understanding between themselves never to assassinate other politicians [well, hardly ever....] If you break the taboo, you're implicitly inviting everyone else to go gunning for you, and it's too easy to do if there are enough people who really want you dead, especially well-organized people like a foreign army or spy service. If the US _had_ really wanted to assassinate Saddam, they could have hired professionals to do the job (like Mossad.) Instead they killed 200,000 other Iraqis, including civilians, draftees, and a few tens of thousands of real soldiers. >In addition *ANYONE* who attempted to implement AP would be someone *I* >would regard as a tyrant and therefore a legitimate target by the rules Yup. >I think that this type of talk is incredibly dangerous. There are plenty of >people on the net who are psychos and if you spread AP drivel arround someone >is going to act on it. I think a more realistic danger is that the government will use it as an excuse to attack all the techniques for private communications that cypherpunks have been suggesting will make AP possible. >PS it is not censorship to stop people from advocating murder. Nonsense. It certainly _is_ censorship, and it's hypocrisy to suggest otherwise. You can argue whether it's _justified_ censorship, just like the AP advocates argue whether assassination is justified murder, but censorship it is. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> # You can get PGP software outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto

3 2

Chris Adams clever frame ...er, flame
by attila 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In <19960922023806125.AAA206@GIGANTE>, on 09/21/96 at 07:38 PM, Adamsc(a)io-online.com (Adamsc) said: You are being gently flamed because. well, I look at creative writing in a different light: a) sarcasm is always in season b) Dr. Dimitri is always an excellent target c) if I had $10 for each sarcastic eoast in CP over the last 3 years I could retire in the style of tcmay, rather than the restrained mode I am retired. d) is there ever any dicussion on CP which does not flame out? e) your 'gentle flame' is a great idea. is it copyrighted f) CP charter was violated so often in last few years that I, and several others started a splinter for code only. if you can't handle the fun, sign off... g) CP's charm is it personalities last, but least: h) join the humour, or... well, lighten-up. [X] you continued a boring useless stupid thread see item a) above [x] you repeatedly initiated incoherent, flaky, and mindless threads et tu. brute? [x] you posted a piece riddled with profanities I beg to differ with you! since when is allusion or illusion profane? [x] you posted some sort of crap that doesn't belong in this group] see a) above, *again* [x] you made a bigoted statement(s) hmmm, not on this one. besides, since when have we advocated PC speech [x] you repeatedly assumed unwarranted moral or intellectual superiority I stand far back in the line for honours on that one --maybe in 2002? [x] you are under the misapprehension that this group is your preserve yes! absolutely! but, I share it with 1000+ others [x] you repeatedly shown lack of humor one man's "plum" is another man's "prune" [x] you are apparently under compulsion to post to every threat wrong! I trash 75% before opening! [?] you are posting an anonymous attack check the spook records listed under "Ace of Swords" >>> Thank you for the time you have taken to read this. Live n' Learn.<<< your pleasure is my pleasure. -- "He said, `You are as constant as a northern star,' and I said, `Constantly in the darkness ? Where's that at ?'" --Joni Mitchell

1 0

Re: Bernstein hearing: The Press Release
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:24 PM 9/21/96 -0800, Jim Bell wrote: >At 11:30 PM 9/21/96 -0400, Mark M. wrote: >>I believe there is one section in the Constitution that says that speech >>harmful to national security is not protected under the 1st amendment. >I can't think of what portion of the Constitution you're referring to. But >chances are, somebody else will see this reference and comment. The First Amendment does not contain the phrase "national security" anywhere in it. It does, however, begin with a rather explicit "Congress shall make no law" which it applies to a bunch of things. However, the body of the Constitution does say there should be a Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court has (fairly reasonably) given itself the job of deciding what's Constitutional and what's not. The Supremes have, over the years, made a bunch of generally outrageous decisions about what kinds of speech are protected by the First Amendment and what kinds aren't, though their opinions have been gradually improving since some of the really appalling ones earlier in the century. By the way, alt.federal.judge.bork.bork.bork has recently come out with a book in which he discusses issues like censorship. He's in favor of it. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> # You can get PGP software outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto

6 6

Re: Going AP Shit on the Internet
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Black Art wrote: > At 06:22 PM 9/21/96 -0700, Dale Thorn wrote: > >[more examples of "why it wouldn't work" deleted] > >This is like Buliosi hyping his superior strategy all over TV (at > >least > >he had the decency to say the jury was basically honest). It's still > >strategy, folks. It doesn't say anything about the people's right to > >have more control over what is already happening. I just wish > >entities like Black Art would say "I'm doing all I possibly can to > >make sure the people DO get involved when govt. *decides* to murder > >someone". Then, entities like Black Art wouldn't be able to stand > >back in their righteousness and say that they're NOT responsible for > >what their govts. do. > What do you mean "when"? Government murders people all the time. As > for when you will find out about it... Most of the time, you will > not. Governments have gotten very good at hiding their crimes. Either > by orders of secrecy, appeals to patriotism, or doing it out of view > of the general public. > I realize my limitations in taking on an enitity as large as Uncle > Sugar. I do what I can to foil his plans (which is not much), but I do > not believe for a moment that he actually listens to the cries of the > peasants unless he wants to. Government is like a servant. He > wanders about your house at > all hours. Sneeks up on you when you are not looking. And will slip > something nasty into your drink if you become too much of a pain and > beleive that they will benifit by your death. > Governments are groups of individuals. Since they are not me, I have > no responsibility over their actions. (Any more than I have over > yours.) > Are you responsible for what your government does? Can we hold you > accountable for them? Punish you for those crimes? > I didn't think so. I'm hearing even more strategy, it would seem. I don't see the relevance of how govt. behaves (i.e., like a bad uncle who hangs around too long and molests the kids, etc.) to who's responsible. If you live in the U.S., that govt. is your agent, carrying out your representatives' instructions, and paid with your tax dollars. Unless and until this becomes a literal dictatorship (and there is a valid argument that it applies even then), you are responsible for whatever your paid agents do, from the street cop to the top politico. It's too bad your fellow citizens shirk their duty and watch TV instead, but issuing the above kinds of denial doesn't take the blood off of your hands or mine. Now maybe it would take God (for example) to judge whether you, I, or Joe Blow is more guilty, for lack of participation or some other citizen crime, but you can't put all the blame on your hired agents for their crimes, when you know very well what kinds of things they do, and you continue to fund them. You have to be considered an accessory, at least.

3 2

A daily word of caution regarding Tim C[ocksucker] May
by nobody＠cypherpunks.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

`A pen is mightier than a sword', not to mention Tim C[ocksucker] May's pea-sized penis. He would be better served by a safety razor, possibly applied in a bathtub filled with warm water (something he has surely never been into).

1 0

Re: Timmy May's spam (Was: Re: CIA hacked)
by James A. Donald 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:55 AM 9/22/96 EDT, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM frothed: > I'm not "worried", since Timmy May has already earned the reputation of a > nutcase and a liar in these circles, Back to the kill file. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

1 0

Re: timmy waxes a widdle on AP
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:05 AM 9/22/96 EDT, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >I was reading the other day about the lessons learned from the one-time >tax refund in 1975. Most consumers realized that this is a one-time deal >and saved most of it, rather than spent it. On the other hand, after Reagan's >tax cuts the consumers spent much of their newly retained income because they >believed that the lower tax rate would continue for a few years. > >Likewise once an occasional gubment official in Mexico is assassinated >often enough for the population to perceive public service as being a >hazardous profession, they'll have trouble recruiting the replacements. >Assassinations won't work as long as they're perceived by the public as >zero-probability events. The public perception depends on other factors >besides the numbers or the frequency of the hits. That's generally correct. The "they'll just hire replacements" argument is given by people who don't understand that under full operation of AP, THINGS WILL CHANGE! And once things start changing, they will change very rapidly. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

1 0

WEB_spy
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

9-22-96. WaPo: "In California, Creating a Web of the Past" Brewster Kahle's massive data-collection devices and programmed computers are surfing and saving everything they can find on the global computer network. At the end of this year that then will be updated as fast as his computers can do their vacuum cleaning, likely every few months. But the project also has piqued the interest of privacy rights advocates and copyright lawyers, who question how the archive will use its data. "I'm dealing with every single intellectual property issue out there," Kahle said. "Privacy, copyright, pornography, import-export -- we've got it all." He is forming a for-profit venture that will sell the Web searching and storing technology developed at the archives. Researchers from AT&T Corp. and Xerox Corp. have asked to study the archive. ----- http://jya.com/webspy.txt (7 kb) WEB_spy

1 0

Continuing spam from Timmy May (or one of his clones)
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's today's sample. I'm becoming more convinced that it's Timmy May him/her/ itself, since he/she/it complains about being called Timmy. Can someone please take a look at the headers and see if they appear to be forged from got.net? ]From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 22 10:59:25 1996 ]Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) ] via UUCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 11:03:58 EDT ] for dlv ]Received: from uumx.smtp.psi.net by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; ] id AA19743 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:59:25 -0400 ]Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net by uumx.smtp.psi.net (8.6.12/SMI-4.1.3-PSI) ] id KAA19486; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 10:59:00 -0400 ]From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ]Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ac22319; ] 22 Sep 96 15:23 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net ] id aa17044; 22 Sep 96 15:19 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP ] id AA843329591 ; Sat, 21 Sep 96 18:13:11 +0000 ]Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ]To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:13:06 +0000 ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ]Subject: Re: CIA hacked ]Priority: normal ]X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) ]Message-Id: <843401964.17044.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ] ] ]His name is Tim, or maybe you never learnt proper manners. ] ] ]> You are confused. The above question was e-mailed to me by one of Timmy May's ]> friends. I just forward their e-mail to this mailing list. I don't read it. ]> If you have any comments about Timmy May's friends not knowing English, ]> trying to insult people, and posting non-crypto-relevant political rants, ]> address them to Timmy May and his friends. ]> ]> --- ]> ]> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM ]> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps ]> ] ] Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security ] Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ] Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ ] "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" ] ]-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]Version: 2.6.3ia ] ]mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 ]6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 ]sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR ]tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy ]NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP ]Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b ]j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k ]C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ ]9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 ]En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 ]YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp ]put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW ]LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi ]mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= ]=CMZA ]-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Here the Timmy May clone comments on his own previous e-mail to me: ]From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 22 10:22:38 1996 ]Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) ] via UUCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 11:03:51 EDT ] for dlv ]Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; ] id AA18447 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:22:38 -0400 ]Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ac21657; ] 22 Sep 96 15:21 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net ] id aa17072; 22 Sep 96 15:19 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP ] id AA843327445 ; Sat, 21 Sep 96 17:37:25 +0000 ]Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ]From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ]To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 17:37:23 +0000 ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ]Subject: Re: CIA hacked ]Priority: normal ]X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) ]Message-Id: <843401979.17072.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ] ]> >Dr. John M. Grubor created the 'net. ]> ]> Who created you? You tub of shit? ] ] ]Fuck you and fuck your cheap ass fucked up life motherfucker (look ]for the fuck redundancy index here, should be an interesting figure, ]motherfucker) ] ]good day to you ] ] ] ] Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security ] Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ] Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ ] "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" ] ]-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]Version: 2.6.3ia ] ]mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 ]6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 ]sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR ]tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy ]NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP ]Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b ]j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k ]C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ ]9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 ]En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 ]YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp ]put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW ]LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi ]mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= ]=CMZA ]-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 22 10:23:35 1996 ]Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) ] via UUCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 11:03:52 EDT ] for dlv ]Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; ] id AA18472 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:23:35 -0400 ]Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ae22319; ] 22 Sep 96 15:23 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net ] id aa17051; 22 Sep 96 15:19 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP ] id AA843329594 ; Sat, 21 Sep 96 18:13:14 +0000 ]Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ]From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ]To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:13:06 +0000 ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ]Subject: Re: Re: CIA hacked ]Priority: normal ]X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) ]Message-Id: <843401966.17051.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ] ] ]This is a further post following an earlier flame: ] ]> You are being flamed because. ]> ]> [X] you continued a boring useless stupid thread ]> [ ] you repeatedly posted to the same thread that you just posted to ]> [x] you repeatedly initiated incoherent, flaky, and mindless threads ]> [ ] you posted a piece riddled with profanities ]> [ ] you advocated Net censorship ]> [ ] you SCREAMED! (used all caps) ]> [x] you posted some sort of crap that doesn't belong in this group ]> [ ] you posted the inanely stupid 'Make Money Fast' article ]> [ ] you threatened others with physical harm ]> [x] you made a bigoted statement(s) ]> [x] you repeatedly assumed unwarranted moral or intellectual superiority ]> [x] you are under the misapprehension that this list is your preserve ]> [ ] you repeatedly shown lack of humor ]> [ ] you are apparently under compulsion to post to every thread ]> [x] you are posting an anonymous attack ]> ]> >>> Thank you for the time you have taken to read this. Live n' Learn.<<< ] ]Furthermore, you qualify as the celebrity fuckhead of the week, have ]a nice day. ] ] ] Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security ] Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ] Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ ] "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" ] ]-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]Version: 2.6.3ia ] ]mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 ]6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 ]sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR ]tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy ]NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP ]Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b ]j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k ]C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ ]9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 ]En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 ]YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp ]put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW ]LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi ]mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= ]=CMZA ]-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 22 10:51:12 1996 ]Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) ] via UUCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 11:03:58 EDT for dlv ]Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; ] id AA19533 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:51:12 -0400 ]Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ad22319; ] 22 Sep 96 15:23 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net ] id aa17045; 22 Sep 96 15:19 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP ] id AA843329593 ; Sat, 21 Sep 96 18:13:13 +0000 ]Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ]From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ]To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:13:06 +0000 ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ]Subject: Re: Dimitri Spams ]Priority: normal ]X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) ]Message-Id: <843401965.17045.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ] ] ]Killifiling you would be a pleasure, however, it is an even greater ]pleasure to be able to flame you because of your worthless posts, ]this is probably why he didn`t... ] ]Get a life. ] ] ]> > Dimitri, get a life! We need Dimitri Spams as much as we needed ]> > Perrygrams. Which is to say, we need them not at all! ]> ]> I see you lied when you claimed to have killfiled me. ]> ]> --- ]> ]> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM ]> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps ]> ] ] Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security ] Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ] Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ ] "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" ] ]-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]Version: 2.6.3ia ] ]mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 ]6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 ]sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR ]tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy ]NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP ]Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b ]j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k ]C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ ]9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 ]En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 ]YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp ]put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW ]LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi ]mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= ]=CMZA ]-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

1 0

Re: Going AP Shit on the Internet
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:06 AM 9/22/96 -0700, Dale Thorn wrote: >If you live >in the U.S., that govt. is your agent, carrying out your >representatives' instructions, and paid with your tax dollars. Unless >and until this becomes a literal dictatorship (and there is a valid >argument that it applies even then), you are responsible for whatever >your paid agents do, from the street cop to the top politico. >whether you, I, or Joe Blow is more guilty, for lack of participation or >some other citizen crime, but you can't put all the blame on your hired >agents for their crimes, when you know very well what kinds of things >they do, and you continue to fund them. You have to be considered an >accessory, at least. I hereby dismiss all employees of the federal, state, or local governments who may be working as my employees or agents and specifically disclaim all actions they take on my part. Note, BTW that your argument is the same as saying "If one pays taxes, one is subject to Nurenberg liability for government crimes." Which is therefore an argument in favor of tax evasion. DCF

1 0

Re: Kill 'em and let God sort it out, was Re: The GAK Momentum is Building...
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:04 PM 9/21/96 -0700, Steve Schear wrote: >> jim bell wrote: >>Naturally, you won't even consider the possibility of going outside the >>system to solve a problem. The rest of us notice that there are probably >>thousands of terminally-ill people who would gladly act as a human kamikaze >>and get rid of any judge inclined to impose such a fine, for a payment of 1% >>of this principle amount to a family member or loved one, leaving 99% >>available for the few other judges foolish enough to basically commit >>suicide by taking up a futile gesture. >> > >If AP came to be seen as an acceptable way for business and citizens to >right egregious wrongs it would quickly lead to a 'law of the jungle' >situation, which I think any sane person would reject as the cure being >worse than the disease. Don't assume that means anything definitive, however. _SOME_ sane people are simply WRONG! Indeed, I'm fond of pointing out that 95% of the things people say are wrong about AP are, themselves, wrong. (Even by the standards of people who'd agree with their general conclusion.) Suppose I could convince you that an AP-dominated world would be, in general, far safer, better, more just, than the status quo. At that point, would you STILL say "any sane person would reject" it? Probably not. I suggest, therefore, that your statement above is based on a misunderstanding of AP. Other people, people who have thought about the matter far longer than you, agree with me. Moreover, after discussing AP with as many people as I have, it's quite predictable that a person would come to a conclusion based on a false belief. However, if governemnts (especially ours) continue >to expand their implied authority and greatly diminishing personal >liberties we all took for granted were inaliable human rights (in our own >best interest, of course), a time may come when a bit of rebellion may be >the only viable alternative for self-correction. Here's the big problem: Let's suppose you think like this. "Someday we _may_ have to rebel. Not today." Gradually, over time, the circumstances get worse. However, as surprising as it may seem, we get used to the problems, and morever a new generation of people are born who've never seen freedom. The line we draw in the sand today just appears to get further and further away. We never cross it, and thus we never rebel, no matter how bad the circumstances get. The most realistic position to take, I think, is to conclude that the line in the sand has ALREADY been crossed, long ago, and that it is high time to act. The beauty of AP is that it will allow "little revolutions" to occur daily, until they are no longer needed. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

1 0

Re: AP [was: Re: Kiddie porn on the Internet] [NOISE]
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:32 AM 9/22/96 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote: >In <199609220708.AAA20288(a)dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com>, on 09/22/96 at 12:09 AM, > Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> said: >>If the US _had_ really wanted to assassinate Saddam, they could have >>hired professionals to do the job (like Mossad.) Instead they >>killed 200,000 other Iraqis, including civilians, draftees, and a >>few tens of thousands of real soldiers. > >You need to take into account the politics of the region. With Saddam gone you have >created a power vaccume that Iran would be all to happy to fill. It was for this >reason that durring the Gulf War the US & its allias (European & Arab) did not go to >Bagdad. They mearly wanted to knock Saddam down a notch or two not take him out. You're thinking like a statist. If Saddam's death leaves "a power vacuum," then simply kill the leadership of Iran, and any other nearby state with designs on the middle east. Gee, whats the problem? This "kill the leadership" system gets mighty addictive! Where will it end? Which is why it isn't started in the first place. The people who might start it are the ones with the most to lose if it spreads. That's why Saddam is alive today. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

1 0

Re: Snake-Oil FAQ
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:44 PM 9/22/96, Dale Thorn wrote: >The basic outline for any products included (and don't forget, just >getting included is some sort of endorsement, if you know what I mean) >could be a feature/bug listing, using common crypto terminology, and >could be followed by side-by-side argument paragraphs from the author >and from a reputable review panel. > >The usefulness of the list would probably depend on: >1. The participation of all those names people like to name-drop on this > forum. >2. And/or the quality of the list itself if done without (1.) above. > In this latter case, it could still be useful, but the variances in > evaluation owing to personal bias would be difficult to overcome. The Basic Problem (tm) with a "Snake Oil FAQ" is that the very persons most in need of it won't read it. If those who post descriptions of their "Unbreakable Virtual Whammo-Matic Really Complicated Transposition Cipher" have not bothered to read Schneier or other basic texts on ciphers, why would they bother to read a Snake Oil FAQ? This applies to their customers as well. It doesn't take much reading of standard crypto books to learn why historical codes and ciphers (and their reinvented modern variants) are fundamentally weak, and subject to (usually rapid) breaking with high-speed computers. Once this basic point is realized, all else follows. In other words, there is really no meaningful target audience for a Snake Oil FAQ. If it's just a quick effort, fine. But escalating it into a Major Cypherpunks Project seems like wasted effort. Just point people to Schneier's book and suggest they read and absorb the first several chapters. Then, like the infamous fisherman, they'll be equipped to understand why the Whammo-matic Really Complicated Cipher is neither Virtually Unbreakable nor worthy of spending much time analyzing, and why they should stick with modern ciphers and systems which have been subjected to years of review and attempts to break them. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

4 3

Jena Remailer
by mixmaster＠remail.obscura.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

lutz(a)as-node.jena.thur.de wrote to All: >> Also, is there any other remailer (now that anon.penet.fi is down) >> that allows one to have an anonymous address to receive >> email? l> anon(a)as-node.jena.thur.de. But it's is bit tricky. The trickiest thing about it - by far - is the inscrutable English translation of the helpfile. I have been trying for over a week to make any sense of how to use the remailer. Granted, it works differently than the other pseudonymous remailers, but the helpfile is simply impenatrable. Like many translations, it is grammatical but makes no sense in spots. >From what I can make out, this is probably a very useful and innovative remailer that I should very much like to use. Can any native English speaker please paraphrase the account start-up procedure for us? Is mixmaster(a)as-node.jena.thur.de a standard T-1/T-2 remailer? Who has the key? Fingering this account doesn't work from West Coast USA. Thanks for any help...

2 2

[Fwd: Re: All Bets Off]
by Joel Jacobs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just got passed this, don't know the context, nor the thread. Clancy was NOT a Navy captain. He does tons of research for his books....his advisor IS a retired Navy Captain named J.M. Rodgers. How do I know? I also use Captain Rodgers as a consultant, AND, I e-mail with Clancy a couple or three times a week. BTW: I'm a retired U.S. Navy Chief Journalist. HTH. Joel Jacobs Co-author of the soon to be published, "Death Watch" >Return-Path: betsat(a)texoma.com >Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:22:27 -0500 >From: >To: jjacobs(a)mail.koyote.com >Subject: [Fwd: Re: All Bets Off] > >The Deviant wrote: >> >> On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Daniel Christopher Miskell wrote: >> >> > Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 11:30:32 -0400 >> > From: Daniel Christopher Miskell <DMiskell(a)envirolink.org> >> > To: Rabid Wombat <wombat(a)mcfeely.bsfs.org> >> > Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >> > Subject: Re: All Bets Off >> > >> > >On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Jeff Davis wrote: >> > > >> >> [lots of quoting rm'd] >> >> > >> > Tom Clancy is not a military-hired brain, but to make his novels realistic and >> > to do justice to the people he portrays, he does a LOT of research. He is a >> > highly respected author, and I have no doubt that his statement is based on >> > his personal findings, collected for a previous novel. >> > >> >> I beleive he was also a Capain in the Navy... >> >> --Deviant >> Old MacDonald had an agricultural real estate tax abatement. > >-- >---------------------------------- >Bernie and Shirley Taner >betsat(a)texoma.com >---------------------------------- >Path: news.texoma.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsp ump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!netnew s.com!uhog.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!ai-lab!ai-lab!not-for-mail >From: The Deviant <deviant(a)pooh-corner.com> >Newsgroups: ailab.cypherpunks >Subject: Re: All Bets Off >Date: 19 Sep 1996 20:30:11 -0400 >Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab >Lines: 26 >Sender: daemon(a)ai.mit.edu >Message-ID: <51soij$kh2(a)life.ai.mit.edu> >NNTP-Posting-Host: life.ai.mit.edu > >On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Daniel Christopher Miskell wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 11:30:32 -0400 >> From: Daniel Christopher Miskell <DMiskell(a)envirolink.org> >> To: Rabid Wombat <wombat(a)mcfeely.bsfs.org> >> Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >> Subject: Re: All Bets Off >> >> >On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Jeff Davis wrote: >> > > >[lots of quoting rm'd] > >> >> Tom Clancy is not a military-hired brain, but to make his novels realistic and >> to do justice to the people he portrays, he does a LOT of research. He is a >> highly respected author, and I have no doubt that his statement is based on >> his personal findings, collected for a previous novel. >> > >I beleive he was also a Capain in the Navy... > > --Deviant >Old MacDonald had an agricultural real estate tax abatement. > > > -------------- 30 -------------- Joel Jacobs jjacobs(a)koyote.com "Most people yearn for the return to an idealized past, a past, which, in fact, never existed." Frank Herbert, "Dune"

1 0

Re: Snake-Oil FAQ
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:48 AM 9/22/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >The Basic Problem (tm) with a "Snake Oil FAQ" is that the very persons most >in need of it won't read it. > >If those who post descriptions of their "Unbreakable Virtual Whammo-Matic >Really Complicated Transposition Cipher" have not bothered to read Schneier >or other basic texts on ciphers, why would they bother to read a Snake Oil >FAQ? This applies to their customers as well. I agree that it will no change the glorified decoder ring salesmen, but it can have a positive effect on their customers. The FAQ has the ability to reach those who would not nessisarily read Schneier or any other large tome. Most of the people outside of this forum have some understanding of cryptography. Most of that understanding is based on folklore and marketing hype. If we do not take pains to educate them as to what real crypto is, then we might as well just sit here and prattle on about Assassination Politics and ad hominem. You seem to take a pretty negative attitude about what the general public can and cannot learn from. If Cypherpunks do not help educate the masses, who will? The snake oil salesmen? The Government? The masses themselves? They are not going to go out and buy a book intended for programmers. (And especially one that costs about $50.) There are no "cryptography for dummies" books. (At least none worth a damn.) A FAQ has the ability to propigate in channels that books cannot. You cannot forward a book via e-mail. (Some will claim I have tried...) The FAQ has the capability to do alot of good. If not, where do you think the energy would be better spent? <sarcasm>"If it saves just one newbie..."</sarcasm> --- Alan Olsen -- alano(a)teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ "We had to destroy the Internet in order to save it." - Sen. Exon "Microsoft -- Nothing but NT promises."

1 0

Internet File System?
by John Brothers 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The other day, it occurred to me that Java could really take off if there was some sort of file system. And, since you can't write to local files with Java, the obvious solution is to set up the 'fopen, fclose(), etc) set of functions that are 'rpcs' to some server application on the same computer as the web server the applet comes from. Since I never manage to come up with new concepts, I assume someone is already working on this, or has already created this. In any case, I've been trying to figure out the best balance of security characteristics for this sort of system. I've written something up at a very high level -- Please let me know what is wrong with it. 1) Before any files can be written or read, the applet has to prompt the user for a password. 2) Password is encrypted one-way, and sent to the server. 3) Server establishes a 'session' (TCP) with the client. At the point, the options are: -- use SSL to maintain security (probably the best, if available) -- providing some sort of encryption, similar to SSL 4) Server would handle all the traditional file manipulation routines, possibly with some restrictions (no access to directories, maybe?) 5) If someone wanted to get a local copy, they would have to ftp to the server, and go to the appropriate place to get it. I can tell this has a couple of weaknesses: a) central authority for creating accounts, maintaining users, etc. b) server side can view all the files at will. b) susceptible to trojan servers I don't know how to reliably solve a). If you don't have some sort of central user admin, you can't avoid denial of service/resource wasting attacks. b) Could be solved by having the user type in (or cut and paste, etc) their entire public key. They could ftp the encrypted document back, and decrypt it with the private key. This would detect and prevent a lot of problems, but dealing with the key would be a bit cumbersome. c) If the server has to send out some sort of validation code that the clients have to accept, it will work ok. But if the attacker has access to the server, they may have access to the java code, and may be able to modify it to not perform the validation. Any ideas ? Thanks for your time. --- John Brothers Do you have a right not to be offended?

3 2

Evolving algorithm for faster brute force key searches?
by jack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I got an idea last night, maybe this has already been thought of and tried, but I thought I would give a quick outline of the program I was thinking of: -Specify a maximum key size (assume 1024bits or something) -Start with an arbitrary key "aaaaaaaaaaaaaa" Start a loop -create five mutations of the key -use each key to try and decrypt a few bytes of the message -run a (or some) statistical analysis tests and come up with a value for how 'random' the decrypted bits are -Pick the key that produced the least random ouput Repeat Probably this wouldnt work on any very strong algorithm, but it seems it might be effective against some. I am going to write the code and try it out on RC4 and on a weakling little algorithm I wrote a while back. Let me know what yall think.

2 1

Re: Snake-Oil FAQ
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:53 PM 9/22/96, Alan Olsen wrote: >I agree that it will no change the glorified decoder ring salesmen, but it >can have a positive effect on their customers. > >The FAQ has the ability to reach those who would not nessisarily read >Schneier or any other large tome. Really? You think someone thinking about buying a cryptographic product for his company, for example, will read an obscure Snake Oil FAQ (even the name presumes familiarity with why some products are "snake oil") while not bothering to read the opening chapters of Denning, Schneier, Brassard, or other such texts? I'll address the issue of "the masses" below. >Most of the people outside of this forum have some understanding of >cryptography. Most of that understanding is based on folklore and >marketing hype. If we do not take pains to educate them as to what real >crypto is, then we might as well just sit here and prattle on about >Assassination Politics and ad hominem. My view is that people interested in buying and using crypto are either bright enough to learn, or are not. A "Snake Oil FAQ" is largely unnecessary, for either category. For the first, because they're bright. For the second, because they're not. >You seem to take a pretty negative attitude about what the general public >can and cannot learn from. If Cypherpunks do not help educate the masses, >who will? The snake oil salesmen? The Government? The masses themselves? > They are not going to go out and buy a book intended for programmers. >(And especially one that costs about $50.) There are no "cryptography for >dummies" books. (At least none worth a damn.) And just who are "the masses"? I've never cared for that term, and rarely use it. But, for the sake of this discussion, just who might they be? Our mothers and fathers who don't use computers? Our neighbors who maybe have a Pentium at work but don't much use computers otherwise? The guy buying a game machine for his kids at CompUSA? The average reader of sci.crypt? (:-}) I believe there is no meaningful way to "reach the masses" until they first show some interest in the subject. And once they do, there is a plethora of ways to learn the basics of cryptography. Nearly all libraries have several books, and nearly every bookstore I have seen has copies of Schneier. Further, the various FAQs available already cover enough of the basics for someone to know why, for example, a "virtual one-time pad, with keys issued by our company" is patently bogus. Again, if "Joe Average" hasn't encountered this sort of stuff, no "Snake Oil FAQ" is likely to reach him. I do think there's a potential "market" for such a Snake Oil FAQ: the journalists who are looking for a pithy line to use in a review of "Super Bass-O-Matic Virtual Decoder Ring." But that's about the only market (or reader base) I see. Have fun with it, just don't gull yourself into thinking it's something "the masses" will read. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

1 0

Spam from Timmy May (fart) and his merry band of mailbombers
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Is this another one of Tim May's accounts? ]From varange(a)crl.com Sun Sep 22 15:39:37 1996 ]Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) ] via UUCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 15:59:10 EDT ] for dlv ]Received: from mail.crl.com by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; ] id AA01600 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Sun, 22 Sep 96 15:39:37 -0400 ]Received: from crl13.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA02700 ] (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com>); Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:40:01 -0700 ]Received: by crl13.crl.com id AA05247 ] (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com) Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:33:43 -0700 ]From: Troy Varange <varange(a)crl.com> ]Message-Id: <199609221933.AA05247(a)crl13.crl.com> ]Subject: Re: [NEWS] ]To: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) ]Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:33:43 -0700 (PDT) ]In-Reply-To: <XJ8guD106w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> from "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" at Sep 18, 96 08:07:56 pm ]X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ]Content-Length: 1605 ] ]> ]> American Banker, 9/17/96 ]> ]> CHASE TO OFFER DEALERSHIPS AUTO LOAN DECISIONS OVER INTERNET ]> ]> Chase Manhattan Corp.'s auto financing division has begun using the ]> Internet to provide dealerships with loan-approval decisions. The bank ]> is the first of eight financial institutions that have committed to ]> using the system, developed by IBM Corp. By computerizing loan ]> applications and sending data electronically, Chase officials said the ]> bank can grant approvals in as few as two minutes. Up to 50% of the ]> division's auto loans will be running through the system within the ]> next 18 months. Chase, the largest car lender not affiliated with a car ]> company, is connected to six dealerships currently using the system and ]> will establish connections to 100 dealers with the official introduction ]> in October. Other financial institutions planning to use the on-line ]> system include NationsBank Corp., G.E. Capital Auto Financial Services ]> Inc., Regions Financial Corp., and Citibank Puerto Rico. The dealer's ]> computer is connected to the Internet through the IBM Globa l Network, ]> which is also used to retrieve an encrypted report from a credit bureau. ]> The dealer's pre-established "key" decodes the report and causes the ]> screen to display one, two, or three stars -- representing poor, fair, ]> or good credit. This gives the dealer an idea of which financial ]> institutions are most likely to approve the loan. ]> ]> --- ]> ]> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM ]> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps ]> ]F^Ackhead. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

2 1

Re: Evolving algorithm for faster brute force key searches?
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:01 PM 7/5/96, jack wrote: >I got an idea last night, maybe this has already been thought of and >tried, but I thought I would give a quick outline of the program I was >thinking of: > >-Specify a maximum key size (assume 1024bits or something) >-Start with an arbitrary key "aaaaaaaaaaaaaa" > >Start a loop > >-create five mutations of the key >-use each key to try and decrypt a few bytes of the message >-run a (or some) statistical analysis tests and come up with a value >for how 'random' the decrypted bits are >-Pick the key that produced the least random ouput Schneier actually used my explanation of why this won't work in the Second Edition of his book. Basically, with any strong. modern cipher, there is no concept of "getting closer" to a solution. Thus, the "fitness landscape" for a brute-force-needed cipher looks like a flat plain (if portrayed in two dimensions), with the solution/key being a single-point spike rising from the plain. No hill-climber can find this spike except by landing right on it, which means evolutionary programming, genetic algorithms, simulated annealing, and neural net sorts of approaches are worthless. With some weak ciphers, this might work. I think Schneier makes some comments about who's looked at this. But weak ciphers are not too interesting. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

3 2

Re: Assassination Politics, was Kiddie porn on the Internet
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 22 Sep 96 at 9:36, jim bell wrote: > >Where is Jimmy Hoffa? > > And it worked! Hey Jim, makes me a bit nervous when you talk that tripe. Unions were using guns and they still do, although the hand holding it now is the govt. But I suppose that you were answering only on a strictly factual basis. Ciao jf P.S. send any comments to me directly, as I am not on CPunks anymore. So many things to do, so little time... ...sigh... Jean-Francois Avon, Montreal QC Canada DePompadour, Societe d'Importation Ltee Finest Limoges porcelain and crystal JFA Technologies, R&D consultant physicists and engineers, LabView programming PGP keys at: http://w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon ID# C58ADD0D : 529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891

1 0

Re: Internet File System?
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>The other day, it occurred to me that Java could really take off if there >was some sort of file system. And, since you can't write to local files >with Java, the obvious solution is to set up the 'fopen, fclose(), etc) >set of functions that are 'rpcs' to some server application on the same >computer as the web server the applet comes from. > >Since I never manage to come up with new concepts, I assume someone is already >working on this, or has already created this. > Eric Hughes, well known cypherpunk, presented a two-part paper at DEFCON IV. The first part of the paper, entitled the "Universal Piracy System" or UPS, addresses an Internet/Web file system which offers universal access and privacy. The second part addresses how the UPS can be the enabler for the demise of copyright while offering a market driven replacement of an entirely different character. I hear Eric is refining these ideas and we hope to see something published soon. Perhaps he's lurking and will respond. PGP Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Snoop Daty Data | Internet: azur(a)netcom.com Grinder | Voice: 1-702-655-2877 Sacred Cow Meat Co. | Fax: 1-702-658-2673 7075 W. Gowan Road, #2148 | Las Vegas, NV 89129 | --------------------------------------------------------------------- Just say NO to prescription DRUGS.

1 0

crypto anarchy vs AP
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Been reading the AP thread, and thought I'd donate some of my views. To me, crypto anarchy is a means to achieve a more libertarian government, it is a pivotal tool to reduce government power, and enable freedom and privacy. A libertarian government means a less powerful government, less taxes, less onerous laws, more freedoms. I don't think AP as stated by Jim could escalate quickly enough as a mechanism to introduce a libertarian government, because if it got to the state that too many politicians were openly threatened, and killed, the government would declare a state of war, and switch off the Internet. You'd just cause the government to panic, and this would have negative effects, it would take ages for them to calm down, and the laws they'd pass in the mean time would mean a near certainty of mandatory GAK as a condition to switching the Internet back on. (Before someone takes me to task for the impossibility of switching the Internet off, it all depends on the level of government panic. More specifically perhaps they would disconnect key backbones, and ISPs briefly while they rushed into effect a few presidential decrees outlawing non GAKed crypto, anonymous ecash, remailers, PGP, DC-nets, etc.) I think I understand what Jim is saying with AP, that it might be a way to accelerate the arrival of libertarian government. I'm not saying I have any moral problems with a suitably restrained version of AP, if it saved lives and resulted in a better life for many people. (Some people might even view it as having a certain element of poetic justice:-) However I don't think it would survive the above hurdle. (Also I have some thoughts on why AP might not achieve the desired effects even if it could survive the hurdle which I will save for now, in the interests of keeping this to a digestible length.) Libertarian governments, if they come, I think will be more easily, and more likely achieved via non-violent means. I think it will be a much more gradual process, and that government power will just be gradually eroded as international businesses gain power, and borders become more open, trade more free, as travel becomes cheaper, and moving to another country becomes less of a hassle. Telecommuting, and remote education should help reduce the problems of moving country. If you telecommute, and your kids (if you have any) are taught via the Net, and you can talk to your friends in photo realistic real time VR chat rooms, it becomes much less important where on the planet you live. As information based work becomes more important, significant proportions of government tax revenues may be siphoned off to tele-workers from tax havens, and to those who just ignore local tax laws in favor of anonymous ecash. The ability to jurisdiction shop for laws, and taxes in itself will reduce governments options. It will induce governments to try to provide incentives for international businesses to use their jurisdictions, and to create the appearance of as free a life style as they can for individuals. The jurisdiction shopping will start amongst the disenfranchised, and the adventurous, but will spread as the advantages become clearer, and the hurdles are reduced. Tax collection will be restructured to tax tangibles, and reduced to encourage customers (citizens). Governments are currently flailing around trying to prolong the inevitable. The fall out from this is beginning to annoy some people. If it annoys enough people soon enough that they vote in a Libertarian candidate for president in the next 20 years, crypto anarchy, and libertarian governments could be reached more quickly. I'm not sure it will ever get that far though, because the more votes the libertarians get over the following years, the closer we get to libertarian anyway, because the government has to start adopting their policies to get the votes back. (Much like the green movement, which once it started getting significant votes, and media attention, was pandered to by politicians of all parties. They're all green now:-) And so libertarian thinking starts to affect government thinking. Crypto anarchy privacy preserving goodies such as anonymous ecash, anonymous email, strongly free speech, right to encryption start to fair better, and so start to undermine whats left of government. Politicians, now posturing to try and look more libertarian might even start to take on board the idea that there are simply too many government employees, that may be the war on drugs causes more problems than it solves, that sounding pro free speech is something that might carry some votes, etc. By the time governments get weak enough for AP to be feasible, they will be so weak, and eager to entice you into their jurisdiction with promised single digit tax rates, private dietary recommendation services, friendly police forces, advertised local highlights: local casinos, brothels, cuisine, favorable climate, reasonably priced housing, etc, etc. that no one will care much about offing the fawning officials (head salesmen, and brochure designer) anyway. Well thats my theory :-) It could all suffer a huge set-back if the government panics too soon, and passes mandatory GAK by presidential decree or something. One hopes that whats left of the US first ammendment, and judicial system would be enough to repeal such a move, but you never know. Adam -- #!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1 lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/)

3 2

Re: Please do not post off-topic flames to the list.
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Unfortunately, you've probably all received something that started out like this: >> You are being gently flamed because. Sorry about that. I've been gone for the last few days and found out that one of my incoming mail filters was somewhat flawed. Instead of sending that generic response only to the esteemed Dr. Vulis it was sending it to any message with his address *in the header*. It also replied to any cc:ed addresses. Ooops... Also, there is no need to speculate about any ulterior motives. It was entirely a setup glitch. There's an important reminder here: don't make setup changes at 2 am and then disappear for 4 days! Again, sorry to the list about this. # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # cadams(a)acucobol.com | V.M. (619)515-4894 "I have never been able to figure out why anyone would want to play games on a computer in any case when the whole system is a game. Word processing, spreadsheets, telecoms -- it's all a game. And they pay you to play it." -- Duncan Frissell

1 0

Re: Bernstein hearing: The Press Release
by Rich Burroughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:39 PM 9/21/96 -0800, Jim Bell wrote: >At 02:03 PM 9/18/96 -0700, John Gilmore wrote: [snip] >>* Any legal framework that allows a government bureaucrat to >>censor speech before it happens is an unconstitutional prior restraint. >>The government is not allowed to set up such a drastic scheme >>unless they can prove that publication of such information will >>"surely result in direct, immediate, and irreparable damage to our >>Nation or its people" and that the regulation at issue is necessary >>to prevent this damage. > >At the risk of being a devil's advocate, let me suggest that you are >conceding too much even with the preceding paragraph. The 1st amendment >says nothing about preventing speech which (even admittedly) would result >in "direct, immediate, and irreparable damage to our nation or its people." [snip] Jim, that's a quote of Potter Stewart from the Pentagon Papers case, if I'm not mistaken. It's not written in the Constitution, but Supreme Court precedent is the next best thing as far as con law goes. >The way you've written the paragraph I've quoted above, it appears that you >are somehow acknowleding that there are certain circumstances where certain >types of speech are controllable because they are "harmful," but you fail to >explain how even this constitutional restiction is tolerable. Frankly, I >don't see it! What you need to do is to be far more specific about such >speech and exactly where it can be controlled. What you need to do is look at the case law :) The government can restrict speech in time, place or manner, according to the courts. Restricting content is more difficult, and places a much heavier burden on the gov. To expect people writing about and arguing the case to completely ignore the existing case law is foolish, IMHO. >I should point out, also, that this is the second time I've mentioned this. >You're doing us a disservice if you concede too much in this area. I think that John and EFF are doing us a huge service by their involvement in the case. I am very optimistic about the outcome of the Bernstein case. Judge Patel's ruling that source code = speech really puts the debate in the plaintiff's court, and we saw some of that in the hearing on Friday, IMHO. Much of the argument was about prior restraint, with the government trying to claim that they are only trying to restrict a specific functionality of crypto code and not the ideas behind it. This seemed to be a fairly weak argument to me, and the plaintiff's attorney pointed out that the ideas embodied in the source code are what dictate the functionality. The plaintiff's attorney (Cindy Cohn) also argued 3 lines of cases that bear on the issue: 1) Compelled speech. 2) Anonymity. 3) Freedom of association. Cohn also argued that the statute is vague (terms like "general principle" and "fundamental research") and overbroad; also that the current version of ITAR does not even meet the scrutiny of the DOJ's own OLC review of the statute. When the attorney for the gov tried to drift back to the issue of whether source code is speech, Judge Patel said, "You'll get that chance again in another court with more judges." Near the end of the hearing, the government attorney stated that the statute describes "what is not controlled," which elicited a pretty hearty laugh from the spectators. Not a real strategic admission. The plaintiff's brief is at: http://www.eff.org/pub/Privacy/ITAR_export/Bernstein_case/Legal/960726_filin g/motion_partsj.html There's quite a bit of info in that same directory. Rich ______________________________________________________________________ Rich Burroughs richieb(a)teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb See my Blue Ribbon Page at http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/blueribbon U.S. State Censorship Page at - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/state New EF zine "cause for alarm" - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/cause

1 0

Go away CIA
by skeeve＠skeeve.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well well... After putting up the CIA hack mirror page on http://www.skeeve.net/cia/ I learnt a few things. o it got 50,000 hits in 1 day o everyone from the cia, senate, fbi, nsa (ncsc) and every other bloody US gov department looked at it masses of times. The CIA looked at it every 10-15 minutes. zztop{root}:15: cat skeeve.net-access_log | grep ucia.gov | wc -l 281 o Even the CIA tries to hack you. relay1-ext.ucia.gov unknown - [21/Sep/1996:01:56:44 +1000] "GET /cgi-bin/phf?Qalias=x%0a/bin/cat%20/etc/passwd HTTP/1.0" 404 1180 o Dozens of in.fingerd/in.telnetd attempts from ucia.gov, some mil sites and ncsc.mil sites. as I speak the house are looking at it. b252-209.house.gov unknown - [21/Sep/1996:02:41:37 +1000] "GET /cia/ I "PRESUME" there are no laws (international or otherwise) being broken by my housing of the mirror... not like I actually care.. but it would be good to know. Ok... ive been up all night chuckling at all the different sort of sites hitting the mirror... time to sleep. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Skeeve Stevens Email: skeeve(a)skeeve.net CEO/The Big Boss/All round nice guy URL: http://www.skeeve.net/ MyInternet Australian Anglicans Online http://www.myinternet.net/ http://www.anglican.asn.au/ Phone: (+612) 869-3334 Mobile: (0414) SKEEVE [+61414-753-383] Key fingerprint = D2 7E 91 53 19 FE D0 5C DE 34 EA AF 7A 5C 4D 3E

5 5

Re: AP [was: Re: Kiddie porn on the Internet] [NOISE]
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:38 PM 9/22/96 -0400, hallam(a)vesuvius.ai.mit.edu wrote: > >I agree with Bill, AP sounds like a very good club for the Exon types >to beat us with. But they're not doing it. They know about it, but they're NOT using it. This should tell you something. This really is no surprise to me; before I started publicizing AP, I tried to carefully consider whether letting the cat out of the bag was going to assist the government in stopping it. My conclusion was that they didn't stand a chance. If anything, they're afraid of publicizing the idea, because their opposition to it can look only self-serving. >Jim's latest comments sounded no different to me than the mealy mouthed >"understanding" messages that Sinn Fein publish about the IRA. Given >the opportunity to condem any attack on the President under AP rules >we get a non commital non-condemnation. Its the type of thing that Gerry >Adams says after his men have just killed two kids with a bomb in a litterbin >outside a MacDonalds. Don't try to tar me with that brush. I made it clear long ago that I'm opposed to truly random attacks on ordinary citizens. However, I hasten to add that I'd very much prefer that these attacks be re-targeted against the people who deserve them. However, I usually find that the people who make the biggest deal about disliking random citizen attacks are the ones who recommend replacing them with...nothing...and have no plan to solve the problems with any other method, violent or otherwise. [doctrinaire BS deleted] >As the Marxist idealogues got frustrated by their evident lack of progress >they turned to terrorism. The Bader Minehof gang believed that they could >spark the revolution by jolting society out of its complacency. Their >strategy was remarkably like AP. Somehow, I doubt it. Anybody who thinks an AP-like system would be effective for bringing in his pet communist (or fascist, or monarchist, or anything other than pure-anarchic) government is an idiot. AP is fundamentally anti-heirarchical in its leanings and effects. >If the heads of large corporations were >likely to be assasinated then noone would want to lead a large firm. Who said companies need "leaders"? Remember, I said AP is anti-heirarchical. Any heirarchies, particularly those forced on people, are strongly deterred. This includes social and religious heirarchies, BTW. Even corporate heirarchies would only exist if approved-of by the vast majority of the shareholders, most of whom will be the workers as well. > In >fact as any person with counter terrorism experience will tell you the >threat of death is remarkably ineffective as a means of intimidation. It >creates the opposite effect, strengthening the resolve of the target. I >discussed this point recently with someone close to Mossad who agreed. Under a set of circumstances similar to the status quo, that is not surprising. But that can change. That WILL change. People occupy positions of authority when they feel, personally, they are better off doing so than not. Give the average member of the public (not merely crazed "terrorists") the opportunity to remove those people, and you won't be able to keep them around. I mean, presumably they do their job for a salary and benefits, right? How many bombs or bullets will they tolerate, rather than resigning and taking a safer job? >Terrorism is becomming an increasing concern. The amount of damage an >individual can cause is much greater than that possible in the past. If anything, I think the advantage of AP is that it REDUCES the amount of damage that any given person has to cause, per citizen, to achieve his anti-government political ends. I've pointed out that it would only take a penny or two from each citizen, on average, to remove one of even the highest-level US officeholders. Far less than that if you include resignations. What I'm advocating is a system that makes it impossible for agents of the status quo to resist the opposition of the public, which is unlike the current system. Rather than have to build a bomb, or wait for somebody else to do so, the ordinary citizen only needs to make a modest contribution to the "revolution fund." And today, an officeholder can claim to resist "terrorism" based on the fact that he opposes the extreme action of a handful of people. What happens when they have to admit that a million people paid for that gun to be fired or that bomb to be planted? >There >are plenty of exhausted ideologies about which can be fashioned into >a justification of murder. Don't blame me for them. > Jim's post shows very clearly how Libertarianism >can be converted into a justification for terrorism. Its a very short gap >between being opposed to government and actively fighting against it. What, exactly, is the MEANING of "being opposed to government"? If you pay taxes to support that government (even if that support is not voluntary) those taxes mean that you are indeed acting to strengthen that government and assist its efforts. I suggest that you can't realistically claim "opposition to government" (other than rhetorical) under these circumstances. >I see libertarianism as the exhausted remnant of the mercantilism of the >1980s. As constructed it recognises only those rights which favour the >privileged in society and none of those which benefit the ecconomically >disadvantaged. Politically it reached its peak influence almost a decade >ago when Regan and Thatcher were at their zenith. The '94 congress will >probably be seen as the turning point in the political tide with the mainstream >of politics moving back to the left again. There will always be people arround >who conclude that the failure was not being close enough to the ideology. You've already made it clear you don't consider yourself a libertarian. Why go on with this stuff? >If the libertarians are not carefull they will be inexorably linked in the public mind >with the terrorists who act in their name. I think the stereotypical "terrorist" doesn't really claim to "act in their [the public's] name." The one recent counter-example that I've heard of, that of the EPR in Mexico, is a very welcome exception. If anything, I think the governments of the world are truly frightened that "terrorism" as commonly practiced will change from the "blow up random airliner" mode, passing through the "blow up nearby government building" mode, to "find and kill a particular official" mode. Far less collateral damage, far harder to whip up public opposition to in the press, etc. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

7 7

Re: (Fwd) Australian "ITAR" regulations
by cjh＠osa.com.au 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter Trei writes: > Forwarded from the cypherpunks list... > http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp.pl/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/cer43… Thanks for posting this URL Peter. Of particular note is the heading: > 43. Other goods as follows: An anonymous opinion from inside the Defence Dept holds that electronic bits on a wire do not constitute goods, and as a result if you ship electronically, you are not subject to the regulations. If you ship a CD or floppy or other physical media containing software, you violate the regulations. I'll add this to the SSLeay legality FAQ - standard disclaimers apply of course, obtain professional legal advice before exporting SSLeay. ------------------------------------------------------------ Clifford Heath cjh(a)osa.com.au Open Software Associates Limited 29 Ringwood Street / P O Box 401 Phone +613 9871 1694 Ringwood VIC 3134 AUSTRALIA Fax +613 9871 1711 ------------------------------------------------------------ Deploy Applications across the Internet and Intranets! Visit our Web site at http://www.osa.com

3 2

Re: Snake-Oil FAQ
by steven ryan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:27 AM 9/22/96 -0700, you wrote: >My view is that people interested in buying and using crypto are either >bright enough to learn, or are not. A "Snake Oil FAQ" is largely >unnecessary, for either category. For the first, because they're bright. >For the second, because they're not. My view is that there is a large third group of people who are bright enough to learn, but don't have the time or inclination to read books or do extensive research on the subject. There are a lot of people using PGP for the wrong reason, not because they read the books or did the research. Nor do they even understand how it works as opposed to how it is used. They are using it because they cruised the net and read good things about it or heard it was cool. A Snake Oil Faq could help prevent these people from choosing wrong products. It would also be very helpful to have all the arguments in one place in one concise faq. Before I joined this list and read Applied Cryptography I was in a discussion in a previous job about securing one of our products. The programmer wanted to protect the key with a convoluted series of transpositions. I knew it was dumb but couldn't successfully argue the point why. A faq would have been helpful. There a lot of people with a casual interest in crypto who will remember that there is a faq on bad crypto. When the time comes they may be able to use those arguments to help avoid the use of bad crypto. Steven ------------------------------------ Steven Ryan - Reading Access - sryan(a)reading.com PGP Fingerprint: E8 A2 C5 A2 7A C4 77 93 0A 1B 1D C6 B9 2F 36 9B Finger me for my PGP public key

1 0

provably hard PK cryptosystems
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

extracting from part of another thread... Dimitri Vulis <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> writes: > Adam Back writes: > > [...] I think I remember that you posted some time ago a way to have > > two plausible decryptions for one ciphertext, to enable things like > > duress keys, in terms of RSA. The problem with this, however is > > that RSA is currently very slow to use in its pure form for > > messages. > > I don't recall this one... My feeling about RSA is that one of these > days there will be a breakthrough allowing much faster factorization > (either through a better algorithm on a conventional computer, or by > a practical quantum computer) and then all the codes based on > factorization will become essentially plaintext. It's time to start > looking for other hard problem to base PKC on. I'm not sure about quantum computers, some people who know much more about particle physics than I do seemed initially sceptical, and didn't think it was doable. However I have read some optimistic sounding news clippings (on the list) which sounded as if things are progressing well, with techniques being found using redundancy to get around what were earlier problems of reliability. Is this accurate reporting (thinking of garbled stories by over enthusiastic journalists)? I'd be interested to hear opinions from anyone who does know about particle physics about the likihood of practical quantum computers being practical in the next 20 years or so. RSA has always had problems with two pitfalls in any proof of its hardness: no proof that RSA is as hard as factoring, and no proof that factoring is hard. Rabin and variants of it at least have the proof of being as hard as factoring. You mentioned your opinion that a vastly better factoring algorithm may yet be found. What about the possibility of finding proof of a useful lower bound for the complexity of factoring, do you have any thoughts on the likelihood of this being achieved? That would be a very significant result, and in the absence of a quantum attack would be as good as it gets. It would allow you to make realistic calculations about physical limits of attacking it, in a similar manner to the entropy calculations possible for brute force of symmetric ciphers. (Heat death of the sun before a solution even if every particle was part of hardware key cracking computer type arguments). One other area that did sound promising was some kind of mapping problem in n dimensional tiling that Tim was discussing at a physical meet while I was over in the US. A news clipping posted to cypherpunks a short time ago was talking about a researcher who had constructed a crypto system related to the problem of finding paths in a tiling problem (sounded like the same problem). The interesting part was that the researcher was reported as having a proof of hardness. Similarly is this being reported accurately? > E.g., does anyone know of any progress made on public-key > cryptosystems based on the word problem in semigroups, described in > Neal Wagner and Marianne Magyarik, _A public key cryptosystem based > on the word problem_, Advances in Cryptology: Proceedings of Crypto > '84, G. R. Blakley and D. Chaum, eds., Lecture Notes in Computer > Sciences #196, Springer Verlag, 1985, and also mentioned in Wayne > Patterson, _Mathematical Cryptology for Computer Scientists and > Mathematicians_, Rowman and Littlefield, 1987? Not familiar with the problem. Is it something you could explain briefly, or are there any on-line papers on the subject? > >From what I neard, NSA tried very hard to implement it and failed, > and the Soviets actually built a cryptosystem similar to what they > described. I tried to duplicate what the Soviets supposedly did, but > without success. Adam -- #!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1 lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/)

1 0

Re: Macintosh Mixmaster port... Who's doing it?
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:16 PM 9/22/96 -0500, Adam Shostack wrote: > A real Mac port of Mixmaster, that integrated with Claris >EMailer and Eudora would be a huge boon to the millions of Mac users >out there. I have no doubt that Vinnie's mac crypto conference talked >a lot about this sort of thing. Actually, the Mac crypto conference didn't spend any time at all on Mixmaster - which is not intended as a criticism of either the conference or of Mixmaster, but it just didn't happen. I gave a very short talk and said that I thought the Mac needed three apps, for people who wanted to jump in a write something useful to the cause of privacy on the net and didn't want to reinvent any wheels: a remailer client with a good user interface, a Mac-native remailer, and an implementation of DC-nets. Mixmaster would, of course, address two of those three. Lucky tells me that there is already a Mac implementation of DC-nets, but it doesn't seem to be very well known. My impression of the demographics of the conference was that it was folks who are mostly working developers who aren't necessarily up-to-the minute on crypto and ecommerce stuff, but are interested enough to at least think about including it in their applications. I'm pottering around with a Java-based remailer that acts like a POP client so it can run on a client machine, not a Unix box; but other people should take that as a challenge to see if they can finish one before/better than me, not a reason to avoid writing one. Hal Finney has already done some very nice work with Java and mailing; see his home page (the address of which I don't have immediately at hand) for more details. For what it's worth, I think future remailer/Mixmaster development might do well in Java. I'm not especially sold on or trusting of the alleged security or trustability features of Java (sorry, no offense) but I *do* think it's a neat tool for building non-machine specific network aware applications. Ignore the fact that people use it to build silly animations or that downloadaded applets may or may not be secure - it's still useful as a development tool. -- Greg Broiles | "We pretend to be their friends, gbroiles(a)netbox.com | but they fuck with our heads." http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | |

4 3

Re: Internet File System?
by Scottauge＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This is actually a good idea. There is something in the UNIX world called NFS (network file system). It is based on TCP/IP sockets. I do not know if you know anything about UNIX, but the file system used does not have logical drives (like a: or b: etc), just one huge tree that can span across many harddrives on many computers, thus making them all look like one. NFS helps to connect the other computer's file systems to the network tree. I think it is pretty cool... There is an RFC for it, though I do not remember the number. I read it once cuz I was planning a windows 95 version so I can hook my laptop up to my UNIX computers, but I found software to do it with and was like, why should I kill time on it when I could be using it to make money! It is very complete and designed to be implemented in C. Since Java is so close to C, a port could probably be made fairly easily (provided ya know something about writing file systems/operating systems ;) )

2 1

LD
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr. Dimitri Vulius, you made this remark to someone: ...You really should get to know L.D. better before you repeat the lies Timmy May spreads about him. ......................................................................................... May I recommend that you read the content within these urls: http://www.csn.net/~ldetweil/ and especially: ftp://crvax.sri.com/risks/15/risks-15.27 (and 28) These contain a history which will clarify for you some of the comments made about L.D.'s relationship to the list, Tim May, etc. .. Blanc

1 0

Transforming variable-length to fixed keys
by pgut001＠cs.auckland.ac.nz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I posted this to sci.crypt recently but the response to it was rather underwhelming, so I thought I'd repost it here to see if anyone has any comments on it. What it is is a scheme for transforming arbitrary user keys (typically a long passphrase) into a fixed-length key for a particular algorithm. This has the following properties: 1. The user key 'userKey' is transformed into an algorithm-specific key 'key' using a number of 'iterations' of a hash algorithm 'hash()'. 2. The transformation is strongly serialized so that any form of attack involving parallelization or precomputation isn't possible. 3. The transformation is non-reversible, so that recovering the transformed key won't recover the original key. 4. The result of the transformation is algorithm-dependant, so that if an attacker recovers a transformed key for one algorithm they can't recover the transformed key (from the same user key) for another algorithm. 5. The transformation can be iterated as often as required to make password-guessing attacks difficult. 6. The transformation process is algorithm-independant and can use any type of hash algorithm and original and transformed key size. The transformation algorithm (which was designed with the help of John Kelsey) is as follows: key[] = { 0 }; state = hash( algorithm, mode, parameters, userKey ); for count = 1 to iterations for length = 1 to keyLength (in hash_output_size blocks) state = hash( state ); key[ length ] = hash( state, userKey ); The state acts as an RNG which ensures that the key hashing is serialized. The initial state depends on all encryption parameters, not just the user key. If we hashed the user key directly and then used it for a number of algorithms then someone who could recover the transformed key for one algorithm could compromise it if used for other algorithms (for example recovering a DES key would also recover half an IDEA key). Hashing all algorithm-related parameters means that a successful attack one an algorithm, mode, or configuration won't allow the key for any other algorithm, mode, or configuration to be recovered. The code which implements the iterated hashing is: /* Hash the variable-length input to a fixed-length output */ memset( key, 0, keyLength ); for( count = 0; count < iterations; count++ ) { for( keyIndex = 0; keyIndex < keyLength; keyIndex += hashOutputSize ) { /* state = hash( state ); key[ n ] = hash( state, userKey ) */ hash( state, state, hashOutputSize, HASH_ALL ); hash( NULL, state, hashOutputSize, HASH_START ); hash( temp, userKey, userKeyLength, HASH_END ); | | | output input input size /* Copy as much of the hashed data as required to the output */ length = ( keyLength - keyIndex ) % hashOutputSize; for( i = 0; i < length; i++ ) key[ i ] ^= temp[ i ]; } } Peter.

2 1

RE: Where to write crypto?
by Will rodger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, Dan McGuirk wrote: >>| > If I want to go to a country outside the United States to write >>| > cryptographic code that will be freely distributable, what's the best >>| > place to go? >>| >>| Or, on the other hand, is there no way that a U.S. citizen can legally do >>| this? >> To which Adam Shostack replied: >> Thats not clear. The ITARs seem, on their face, to create a >>prior restraint on speech based on its content, and forbid Americans >>the right to leave the country to pursue their livlihoods. The odds >>of geting persecuted seem pretty low. Could be. But prominent crypto atty. Ken Bass told me he thought such actions would be vigorously prosecuted - quicker than you could say "global proliferation." Thing to notice here: no prominent cryptographer in the US has come forth and said "yes, I helped write strong crypto abroad." Which isn't to say most of them aren't traveling abroad frequently these days - take, e.g. the presence of M. Blaze, W. Diffie et al. at the OECD in Paris this week. >> As to the (predictable) comment that I'm not doing this, I'd >>be happy to entertain offers of crypto work that are not in the US, >>possibly leading to me being a test case. >> Call before you do, Adam; I'd kill to have that story first... Will Rodger Washington Bureau Chief Inter@ctive Week -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.9 iQEVAgUBMkXvQ0cByjT5n+LZAQGLyQf8Ctlf2JVeYI8Ws47YovJ0fhF3nzf9ihLd nHzZNqGpEVGVcOXYw2u84jV68y9Y7M3vdo/BDZCA3G0T8zZopmpiNZHgblh15ndP jPdYRkz4+7NnEn/Tz/1LQS6SVp/LA1G/qoCCNqGuYneSVkZxxsoeoEp9ZdCMhDE9 iq7IEI+pyY44vnSWvo65YNQZXt4thf94E94pspoNWC+DNwRDj8BkK28MpM3vduqD i/cViVUcKOLVg/b31HTVrq0rwWClfD0+J4a4F8AcGcf4SwedGCVaUAdSWRw0FQTJ 6AioCSd5Cs/g9k+xxaqRMzExJcBphwnlCZvA+qpgjY+KdagaEqJwGA== =vyTv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Re: Bernstein hearing: The Press Release
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:15 PM 9/22/96 -0700, Rich Burroughs wrote: >At 04:39 PM 9/21/96 -0800, Jim Bell wrote: >>At 02:03 PM 9/18/96 -0700, John Gilmore wrote: > >[snip] >>>* Any legal framework that allows a government bureaucrat to >>>censor speech before it happens is an unconstitutional prior restraint. >>>The government is not allowed to set up such a drastic scheme >>>unless they can prove that publication of such information will >>>"surely result in direct, immediate, and irreparable damage to our >>>Nation or its people" and that the regulation at issue is necessary >>>to prevent this damage. >> >>At the risk of being a devil's advocate, let me suggest that you are >>conceding too much even with the preceding paragraph. The 1st amendment >>says nothing about preventing speech which (even admittedly) would result >>in "direct, immediate, and irreparable damage to our nation or its people." >[snip] > >Jim, that's a quote of Potter Stewart from the Pentagon Papers case, if I'm >not mistaken. It's not written in the Constitution, but Supreme Court >precedent is the next best thing as far as con law goes. Under the circumstances, I think it would be wise to actually EXPAND our protections. A lot has happened in the last 25 years. If a reasonably extensive list were made of situations and circumstances where the wool was pulled over the eyes of Americans by government...and how subsequent developments showed that these things were best revealed THEN and not later...it could be reasonably argued that there is no or almost no area where the "direct, immediate, and irreparable damage" exception is likely to realistically exist. You should point out that the Pentagon Papers case was decided notwithstanding an extraordinarily generous set of assumptions common in Cold-War America about the power and authority of government, many if not most of which would be no longer considered valid. Put the opposition on the spot: Insist that they provide a substantial number of examples where speech was expected, was attempted to be restricted by gov't under such an exception, where that speech actually occurred (either by refusal of the court to intervene or by refusal of a party to the case to restrict his speech), and show how this actually caused any "direct, immediate, and irreparable damage." In the absense of such examples, it is reasonable to presume that, generally, they don't exist or are so rare as to be ignorable. (For example, in the Progressive case from the middle 70's, the gov't dropped its case. What harm occurred?) >The government can restrict speech in time, place or manner, according to >the courts. Restricting content is more difficult, and places a much >heavier burden on the gov. > >To expect people writing about and arguing the case to completely ignore >the existing case law is foolish, IMHO. I am _not_ suggesting that case law be "ignored." Rather, point out that the case law, even though it goes in your favor, was still decided in a thoroughly biased atmosphere and therefore further reductions in government authority are appropriate. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

1 0

Paradox db passwords/encryption
by David K. Merriman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Mon Sep 23 12:52:32 1996 Sorry to disturb everyone, but I've got a questions that is (gasp!) immediately related to crypto: Does anyone have any info on the encryption used in the Paradox (4.5 for Win) database? I've got someone that has an encrypted (well, password-protected :-) Paradox database that needs some maintenance, and the person that knew the password is now - shall we say - 'no longer with them'. Right now, doesn't matter if it's something clever, or a brute-force hack; they just need to get into the tables and such. Dave Merriman - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- PGP Email welcome, encouraged, and PREFERRED. Visit my web site at http://www.shellback.com/p/merriman for my PGP key and fingerprint "What is the sound of one hand clapping in a forest with no one there to hear it?" I use Pronto Secure (tm) PGP-fluent Email software for Windows -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMkYXlcVrTvyYOzAZAQGcxgQAleY6gXoM1n0AbYSUogW9Zo4brlHgsEHW vs3aAh+DQEaWJKc9ltXlDK94su9uJbAo3gb4cvG0EnBDifpqlS/bya7fG9KlcM6H k6REe2Ui6xBLtbjJTa5fmAjmeLYPSKnF5z6Eql8VpdZPoS0hqKZKgdyogMrai4Dx esOt90XBqVk= =hibj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

A daily word of caution in reference Tim C[unt] May
by Dustbin Freedom Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim C[unt] May is not only as queer as a three dollar bill, but he is also into having sex with children.

2 1

Re: Snake-Oil FAQ
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:41 AM 9/23/96, steven ryan wrote: >At 05:27 AM 9/22/96 -0700, you wrote: >>My view is that people interested in buying and using crypto are either >>bright enough to learn, or are not. A "Snake Oil FAQ" is largely >>unnecessary, for either category. For the first, because they're bright. >>For the second, because they're not. > >My view is that there is a large third group of people who are bright >enough to learn, but don't have the time or inclination to read books or do >extensive research on the subject. There are a lot of people using PGP for >the wrong reason, not because they read the books or did the research. Nor >do they even understand how it works as opposed to how it is used. They are >using it because they cruised the net and read good things about it or >heard it was cool. Well, there are a bunch of books out on PGP, which they can read. And there are already some good FAQs out on the basics of cryptography--surely concise enough and yet detailed enough to warn folks away from some basically flawed programs. But just how far can one go? Some people just won't be taught, despite the several very-accessible books on PGP and crypto. So? And I don't really think there's a problem. Just how many of these "Snake Oil" crypto programs are people really _buying_? And does it matter if they buy a reasonably-competent program (*) like "DiskLock" instead of using 3DES or one of the good disk encryption programs? (* By "reasonably competent" I mean not "snake oil," and roughly able to do the job for which it was intended. Many people just want casual-grade crypto, to stop casual attempts to look at what they've written. We may disagree with them, but, hey, it's their choice. I maintain that these people are unlikely to read something called "The Snake Oil FAQ.") To coin a phrase, you can lead a person to strong crypto, but you can't make him drink. >A Snake Oil Faq could help prevent these people from choosing wrong >products. It would also be very helpful to have all the arguments in one >place in one concise faq. Before I joined this list and read Applied At some point this become YACB (Yet Another Crypto Book). If you and others want to donate time to help educate the (small, I think) class of users who won't read the PGP books, or the PGP articles in the magazines, and yet who you think are smart enough...blah blah...well, go ahead and write such a thing. (BTW, Schneier has a book out on "Security for the Macintosh," a kind of watered-down intro to crypto and security....he makes the points a "Snake Oil FAQ" might make...again, I think this is an overcrowded market.) >Cryptography I was in a discussion in a previous job about securing one of >our products. The programmer wanted to protect the key with a convoluted >series of transpositions. I knew it was dumb but couldn't successfully >argue the point why. A faq would have been helpful. Wouldn't arguments out of the standard textbooks have been just as effective, and perhaps even more "credentialled" than words from a FAQ? I hope you are not expecting that a FAQ would have the precise magic words dealing with your programmer friend's situation? At best, it would contain seom reworded arguments out of the well-known textbooks. I just don't see the point. But if it keeps folks busy, and happy, I guess it's harmless. (:-}) --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

1 0

RE: Where to write crypto?
by Remo Pini 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Mon Sep 23 08:31:11 1996 > > > On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, Dan McGuirk wrote: > > If I want to go to a country outside the United States to write > cryptographic code that will be freely distributable, what's the > best place to go? Switzerland has NO crypto laws (yet)... - ------< fate favors the prepared mind >------ Remo Pini rp(a)rpini.com PGP: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/crypto.html - ----< words are what reality is made of >---- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMkYusBFhy5sz+bTpAQHziQf/eGRk90lC1/0NNMj9Qco54BHZhElwPCnK CsH8UJr90Ue68K5GA5VSBcWrBw/7j/AxaM5RiwnNzeuyw1GwYWlSKyfKzczqU6Z/ 2DuCGz/cRkDuUYjK5PrWbh59Pr6PH8flqnFEap9cWU1Fl8BjdCBX+6IYTjVh1Ph4 Z6M7kYB3rDlTYECB8CtZhAELq89+nD4Rk1SI/lIckGNOS/tSESBQ+5L/t+JDFmUd e6w07eRchN22+XDkVxBJ6UNPGR+3IiaNduOMXDyAgsHetXkfN51TaGOSpTlJltOz Wd7K0vjhGPDNhSgAa9dQ5J3B8ckHGsELHloXvjYfzfzW/tDOtbdjmg== =Whww -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1