December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

No Subject
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

_The Atlanta Journal/The Atlanta Constitution_ 6/13/96 ...From a 1/2 page article: *In Georgia the movement appears to be percolating, too. Robert Costner, president of Electronic Freedom Georgia, says the biggest hurdle his group is trying to clear is the unfamiliarity of legislators with the Internet. Laws like the CDA are passed, Costner said, "because people are afraid of the Internet just as people were at one time afraid of the printing press.*

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New NRC Report Site
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks to Replay Web Development's generosity, the full 434-page NRC cryptography report of May 30, 1996 is available at: http://www.replay.com/mirror/nrc/ Our previous URL for the report also links to Replay's site: http://pwp.usa.pipeline.com/~jya/nrcindex.htm

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NYT on CDA Win
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

6-13-96. NYP, Page One lead: "Judges Turn Back Law To Regulate Internet Decency." In a unanimous decision that celebrated the Internet as "the most participatory marketplace of mass speech that this country -- and indeed the world -- has yet seen," a three-judge Federal panel in Philadelphia yesterday declared unconstitutional major parts of a new law intended to regulate indecent material on the global computer network and blocked the law's enforcement. The three judges called Government attempts to regulate content on the Internet a "profoundly repugnant" affront to the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech. "Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our liberty depends upon the chaos and cacophony of the unfettered speech the First Amendment protects," Judge Dalzell wrote. http://pwp.usa.pipeline.com/~jya/cdawin.txt (3 articles) ----- Or, if the http fails, send a CDA_win to <jya(a)pipeline.com>.

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Re: Kaos vs Control
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:31 AM 6/12/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >I see little chance that people who don't >understand anarchy derives from "an-archy," "no top/leader/highest level," >will become educated.) Unless they choose "anarchy" without even knowing it. As in my Gallup Poll question to "prove" that 90% of Americans are anarchists: "Some groups advocate aggressive violence as a means of achieving social ends. Do you agree with them? Do you advocate aggressive violence as a means of achieving social ends?" So 90% of the population answer "No" and demonstrate that they are either anarchists or don't understand the nature of government. >Good to see the courts reaffirming that "chaos" and lack of control by >authorities is a core part of the U.S. system. Maybe the control freaks of >Europe and Asia who have been charting their own authoritarian courses will >give more thought to ensuring liberty even if it causes more "chaos." One would hope. Perhaps reality will have to do it for them. DCF

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Tripwire and SATAN for Linux
by Steve O 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hey guys, Can any one point to where i can get Tripwire and SATAN for Linux? a friend is in dire need. thanks... Steve O Steve O. "True Utopia can only be reached by an uncensored and secure Internet, True Chaos can only be reached by the government, True love can only be reached in the movies." S.O. "Bang your head, Metal Health will drive you mad!" Quiet Riot "Welcome my friend, Welcome to The Machine" Pink Floyd "Lonelyness and Emptiness; Love and Fulfillment; Are all but flashes in the eye of the storm of our tormented soul." S.O.

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Re: Kaos vs Control
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 13 Jun 96 at 10:06, Duncan Frissell wrote: > At 11:31 AM 6/12/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: [..] > >Good to see the courts reaffirming that "chaos" and lack of control by > >authorities is a core part of the U.S. system. Maybe the control freaks of > >Europe and Asia who have been charting their own authoritarian courses will > >give more thought to ensuring liberty even if it causes more "chaos." > One would hope. Perhaps reality will have to do it for them. Reality never did anything for the (Supreme) Court, and certainly not a lot of politicians. But yes, one would hope... Rob. --- No-frills sig. Befriend my mail filter by sending a message with the subject "send help" Key-ID: 5D3F2E99 1996/04/22 wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com (root@magneto) AB1F4831 1993/05/10 Deranged Mutant <wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com> Send a message with the subject "send pgp-key" for a copy of my key.

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Re: Comments on MicroPayments and the Web
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: "Mark M." <markm(a)voicenet.com> > I think it would be interesting to see how copyright law will be applied to the > Web if micropayments ever become popular. Would memory or disk caching be > considered fair use? If so, then people could just set up a very large disk > cache and maybe delete it every month or so. It would also be a pretty neat > hack to use a proxy that only cached pages that charged micropayments. > Companies would not make a lot of money from things like this. If disk caching > was not considered to be fair use, people would still turn it on anyway. Where does the money come from to run this proxy? Consider two sites, one which acts as a proxy and cache but which charges something under a penny per page, and another which acts for free. Won't the for-pay site be able to afford a larger disk, more servers, and better net connections? It will be a superior service. Micropayments will allow new services and improved quality over what we have today where we have to rely on charity and advertising as motivations for much of what we find on the web. Hal

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Re: Report from Germany on "backdoor" net-censorship
by um＠c2.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A short update from Germany: The "ICTF" attorney has half-retracted their announcement on Usenet. "ICTF" is going to be only an advisory group for ECO members. They will make recommendations about newsgroups that might be 'dangerous' to carry, and will only react on individual articles when they are informed about articles that would be illegal to keep on the news servers. The "ICTF" plans to use a modified Cancel message format that will only affect their members' servers. He says that the press release was not addressed to the net (well, they tried their best to hide it...) but to journalists with no clue. Of course, political harm has been done, but I am glad that the Social Democratic Party's net expert has severly critizised this censorship attempt in a press release and on Usenet. For those who can read German (if you can't you'll sure find the most important news on Declan's international censorship page), I have put up a web page on "ICTF" at http://www.thur.de/ulf/zensur/ In September, we will see what they are really going to do other than issuing bogus press releases.

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Re: PBS show
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:26 PM 6/12/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >I caught the show and thought it was pretty good, all in all. I thought so too? When is part II coming on? (I hope it didn't come right after that, I had to run.) Next week? >I personally despise the term "nerd," but I won't get into that here. Ahhh... it makes them happy. What I find most unnapealing is the unabashed, "I don't have a life, I live with a computer" mentality. I was rather taken with that mentality myself for a bit (and I'm sure it contributed to the RSI), but even then I would have found it painfully difficult to only associate with one "culture" and only do one thing all day long. Maybe "nerds" over do it, but they do do other things, like play magic, or assasin, D&D, or whatever. <grin> And the most interesting/brilliant computer people that I run into _have_ other interests beyond computers. >first employee hired by Jobs and Woz. Personally, my first personal >computer was a Processor Technology SOL, as I thought the Apple II looked >too much like a toy. Shows you what I knew.) The thing that startled me, was the contrary temporal perspective. Watching it I felt like, "Hey! I remeber that, I used an Apple II in kindergarden to write LOGO," or though I didn't have an Altair, I had a Bailey Arcade. No one here probably remembers, but it was a kick ass game playing (the best at the time) and programmable machine. I remember belonging to a mailing-list club and getting a thick envolope of type written code that I'd dutifully punch into a calculator like entry pad. (All ~20 keys for quadrupely overloaded!!) The cool thing was it had cool (c-64 like) peeks and pokes and you could call a plethora of the pregenerated graphical things from your own code. Then there was always saving it to the audio tape... <ack> Ok, so that is the nostalgia bit (hey I remember that), the other bit was a, wow that was a long time ago. Looking at PC-history always feels like a contradiction in time. _______________________ Regards, Laziness is no more than the habit of resting before you get tired. -Jules Renard Joseph Reagle http://farnsworth.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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Re: PBS show
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:26 PM 6/12/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: > >Most of the portrayals of Silicon Valley history was pretty accurate, >especially the 1975-78 "Homebrew Computer Club" days. (I used to go to >about every other one of these, mainly in '77-78, where I sometimes passed >out free samples of the 8080 and stuff like that. A friend of mine at the >time was one of the Apple II motherboard designers, and another was the >first employee hired by Jobs and Woz. Personally, my first personal >computer was a Processor Technology SOL, as I thought the Apple II looked >too much like a toy. Shows you what I knew.) But the Apple II WAS a toy! Non-detached keyboard, poor placement of reset key, upper-case only, 40-character wide display, odd microprocessor, VERY SMALL capacity floppies (which were very slow as well), as well as a hostile legal situation regarding the building of clones. Hell, they even objected to other companies building boards which plugged into the bus! Personally, I soured on the Apple II when I followed EDN magazine's attempt to build an engineering system with it, called "Project Indecomp." They ran into a boneheaded design problem with the Apple, due to improper clock synchronization and bus timing. They gave up the project, concluding that the Apple II was brain-dead. BTW, Intel shares a substantial proportion of the blame for Apple's choice of the 6502. The decision was made, I've heard, because Intel was still trying to get $200 for a slow 8080, while Western Design Center (?) wanted only about $20 for a 6502. And by refusing to build Masatoshi (?) Shima's design for the Z-80, they totally lost the race for the 8-bit PC world. The Z-80 turned into the highest-volume 8-bit microprocessor by far, leaving both the 8080 and the 8085 in the dust, and even the 6502. I have other, even harsher word for the design of the IBM PC. Oh yes, the Mac sucks bigtime as well, although primarily for legal reasons. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Tripwire and SATAN for Linux
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:25 AM 6/13/96 -0700, Steve O wrote: >Hey guys, > Can any one point to where i can get Tripwire and SATAN for Linux? >a friend is in dire need. thanks... >From the notes passed out at Venema and Farmer's "Security Auditing and Risk Analysis" class: Archive locations for important auditing software: COPS http://www.fish.com/security/cops Crack ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/security/ ipsend (part of the IP Filter package) ftp://coombs.an.edu.au/pub/net/kernel/ip-fil3.0.4.tar.gz lsof ftp://coast.cs.perdue.edu/pub/tools/lsof SATAN ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/security/satan.tar.Z Tiger ftp://net.tamu.edu/pub/security/TAMU Also try: CERT ftp://cert.org Gene Spafford http:/coast.cs.perdue.edu Wietse Venma ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/security ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The Internet may fairly be | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | regarded as a never-ending | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | worldwide conversation. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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No Subject
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"We're sitting here watching the sun rise for the first time and we've never even seen the sun" -- Rush Limbaugh about the Internet on today's show. Rush also opined that it was impossible to regulate. DCF

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President Clinton's Statement on the CDA Decision
by jseiger＠cdt.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What's more interesting is what it doesn't say. He is not at all definitive on whether the gvt will file an appeal... Jonah -- THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary ___________________________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release June 12, 1996 STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT The Justice Department is reviewing today's three judge panel court decision on the Communications Decency Act. The opinion just came down today, and the statute says we have twenty days to make an appeal. I remain convinced, as I was when I signed the bill, that our Constitution allows us to help parents by enforcing this Act to prevent children from being exposed to objectionable material transmitted though computer networks. I will continue to do everything I can in my Administration to give families every available tool to protect their children from these materials. For example, we vigorously support the development and widespread availability of products that allow both parents and schools to block objectionable materials from reaching computers that children use. And we also support the industry's accelerating efforts to rate Internet sites so that they are compatible with these blocking techniques. -30-30-30- * PROTECT THE INTERNET AND THE FUTURE OF FREE SPEECH IN THE INFORMATION AGE * Join the legal challenge against the Communications Decency Act! For More Information, Visit the CIEC Web Page http://www.cdt.org/ciec/ or email <ciec-info(a)cdt.org> -- Jonah Seiger, Policy Analyst Center for Democracy and Technology <jseiger(a)cdt.org> 1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100 Washington, DC 20006 (v) +1.202.637.9800 PGP Key via finger (f) +1.202.637.0968 http://www.cdt.org/ http://www.cdt.org/homes/jseiger/

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Re: PBS show
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:35 PM 6/13/96, jim bell wrote: >At 10:26 PM 6/12/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: ... >>first employee hired by Jobs and Woz. Personally, my first personal >>computer was a Processor Technology SOL, as I thought the Apple II looked >>too much like a toy. Shows you what I knew.) > >But the Apple II WAS a toy! Non-detached keyboard, poor placement of reset >key, upper-case only, 40-character wide display, odd microprocessor, VERY >SMALL capacity floppies (which were very slow as well), as well as a hostile >legal situation regarding the building of clones. Hell, they even objected >to other companies building boards which plugged into the bus! Compared to my SOL, the Apple II would've been more useful, in retrospect. As to the 40-character display, that was the norm in those days. (My SOL, and certainly the other machines available to home users at that time, had only a 40-character-wide display...when in worked.) The comments about the floppies (" VERY SMALL capacity floppies (which were very slow as well") is even more off-base. In fact, it was probably Apple's ability to put _any_ kind of floppies on the Apple II, for a reasonable price, that ensured its success. Processor Technology was effectively sunk by delays in getting its "Helios" 8-inch floppy drive working. The bigger and faster 8-inchers may have been technically superior to Apple's "Integrated Woz Machine" drivers and 5-inch floppies, but Apple was shipping. That counts for a _lot_. >BTW, Intel shares a substantial proportion of the blame for Apple's choice >of the 6502. The decision was made, I've heard, because Intel was still >trying to get $200 for a slow 8080, while Western Design Center (?) wanted >only about $20 for a 6502. You need to check your claims more carefully. There are always many reasons a chip is selected for a design. >And by refusing to build Masatoshi (?) Shima's design for the Z-80, they >totally lost the race for the 8-bit PC world. The Z-80 turned into the >highest-volume 8-bit microprocessor by far, leaving both the 8080 and the >8085 in the dust, and even the 6502. Again, your understanding of the history of Intel, Zilog, and the industry in general is lacking. The design and process technology resources were instead committed to the 8086, and history is rather clear about the wisdom of doing that. Intel is now capitalized at something like $50-70 billion, and Zilog is no longer on the radar screen. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Clinton Backs Internet 'Decency Act'
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At odds with what gore said..... > WASHINGTON (Reuter) - President Clinton says the >Communications Decency Act is a legal way to protect children >from online obscenity, despite a three-judge panel's ruling that >blocks large parts of the act. > ``I remain convinced, as I was when I signed the bill, that >our Constitution allows us to help parents by enforcing this Act >to prevent children from being exposed to objectionable material >transmitted through computer networks,'' Clinton said in a >statement Wednesday. > He said he would continue to work to shield children from >such material and supports ``the development and widespread >availability of products that allow both parents and schools to >block objectionable materials from reaching computers that >children use.'' > Clinton also applauded the communications industry's efforts >to rate Internet sites so they are compatible with blocking >techniques. > The act, signed into law as part of the sweeping >Telecommunications Act of 1996, prohibits the distribution to >minors of indecent or ``patently offensive'' materials over >computer networks. > The three judges issued an injunction blocking portions of >the Communications Decency Act, but let stand prohibitions >against obscenity and child pornography and types of speech that >are not constitutionally protected. > > > _______________________ Regards, Laziness is no more than the habit of resting before you get tired. -Jules Renard Joseph Reagle http://farnsworth.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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Zimmerman/Viacrypt
by Steve Reid 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Phil disagrees with ViaCrypts new "business" version of PGP which > apparently encrypts all messages with an employer-supplied public key > in addition to any specified by the employee. Looking at Denning's critique (pro-escrow rant) of the NCR crypto report, she mentioned that mutant version: [http://www.cosc.georgetown.edu/~denning/crypto/NRC.txt] "Other corporations are similarly adopting products with data recovery capabilities as they integrate encryption into their systems (even PGP comes with data recovery in Viacrypt's Business Edition)." IMHO Phil Zimmerman has good reason to object to the mutant version, if it's going to cause the PGP name to somehow endorse escrow. If there really is a demand for escrow, maybe cypherpunks could create a One Time Pad escrow service. Different custom 'keys' could be produced, depending on who's asking for the data... <G> ===================================================================== | Steve Reid - SysAdmin & Pres, EDM Web (http://www.edmweb.com/) | | Email: steve(a)edmweb.com Home Page: http://www.edmweb.com/steve/ | | PGP (2048/9F317269) Fingerprint: 11C89D1CD67287E68C09EC52443F8830 | | -- Disclaimer: JMHO, YMMV, TANSTAAFL, IANAL. -- | ===================================================================:)

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Students Beware -- Fla. gov. questions jailing of researcher
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:06:00 -0400 >From: reagle(a)rpcp.mit.edu (Joseph M. Reagle Jr.) >To: reagle(a)rpcp.mit.edu >Subject: Fla. gov. questions jailing of researcher > > > > TALLAHASSEE, Fla., June 12 (UPI) -- Gov. Lawton Chiles said Wednesday >he has ordered Florida education officials to determine whether a >university researcher jailed in a patent dispute should be freed. > Petr Taborsky, an undergraduate chemistry major who worked for $8.50 >an hour in a laboratory at the University of South Florida, was >sentenced in January to 3 1/2 years in a maximum-security prison. > He had refused to sign over to the school a patent for a new way he >discovered to use a substance similar to cat litter to purify water. > ``I don't know what he's doing in prison,'' said Harry Singletary, >Florida's prisons chief. ``We need prison beds for violent offenders, >for repeat offenders. I don't see him as anybody threatening the public >safety.'' > Chiles' general counsel, Dexter Douglass, asked the Florida Board of >Regents to look into the university's handling of what he called ``this >bizarre case.'' > Douglass has also asked the state's attorney general to look into the >prosecution of Taborsky, ``particularly the apparent use of state funds >for private attorneys to push criminal penalties.'' > USF reportedly has spent more than $320,000 on the Taborsky case, in >addition to the costs of staff attorneys. > Taborsky's legal problems stemmed from a testing contract USF signed >in 1987 with Florida Progress Corp., a utility conglomerate. > The contract specified that Florida Progress would own all data and >discoveries. But when Taborsky was hired to work on the project, he did >not sign an employment contract forfeiting the right to profit in >anything he might discover. > When he left school in 1988, Taborsky took two notebooks that USF >ordered him to return. When he refused, university police charged him >with theft. > Taborsky contended the data contained in the notebooks was from >research he conducted separate from the Florida Progress project and >that the utility showed no interest in it until he discovered the new >water-purification method. > When a jury convicted him of theft in 1990, Taborsky was sentenced to >a year's house arrest, 15 years' probation and ordered to make no >further use of the data. > But he pursued a patent and in 1992 received the first of three for >the process. USF lawyers argued that was a violation of his probation, >and the court ordered Taborsky to sign over the patent to the >university. > He refused, and was sentenced to 3 1/2 years in prison. > Taborsky began prison life five months ago and has been described as >a model inmate. He served on a chain gang at first and by May was >working at the institution's waste-water treatment plant creating >computer programs to monitor the water. > Singletary said within a few days, he hopes Taborsky will be in a >minimum-security work-release center closer to where his parents live. > ``I'm looking for the right place to put him until he can be >considered for clemency or whatever else is being looked at,'' >Singletary said. > But at least one member of the Board of Regents defended the way USF >handled the Taborsky case. > ``It doesn't sound any different to me than a guy who steals books >out of the library,'' said Regents Chairman James Heekin. > ``What's the big deal?'' he asked. > > > _______________________ Regards, Laziness is no more than the habit of resting before you get tired. -Jules Renard Joseph Reagle http://farnsworth.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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Re: PBS show
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:31 AM 6/13/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: > >Compared to my SOL, the Apple II would've been more useful, in retrospect. >As to the 40-character display, that was the norm in those days. (My SOL, >and certainly the other machines available to home users at that time, had >only a 40-character-wide display...when in worked.) > >The comments about the floppies (" VERY SMALL capacity floppies (which were >very slow as well") is even more off-base. The original Apple II floppy held ONLY 90 kilobytes on a 5" floppy. How did they do such a bad job? >>BTW, Intel shares a substantial proportion of the blame for Apple's choice >>of the 6502. The decision was made, I've heard, because Intel was still >>trying to get $200 for a slow 8080, while Western Design Center (?) wanted >>only about $20 for a 6502. > >You need to check your claims more carefully. There are always many reasons >a chip is selected for a design. Yes, there are, but a 10-to-1 difference in price is a killer for most designs. > >>And by refusing to build Masatoshi (?) Shima's design for the Z-80, they >>totally lost the race for the 8-bit PC world. The Z-80 turned into the >>highest-volume 8-bit microprocessor by far, leaving both the 8080 and the >>8085 in the dust, and even the 6502. > >Again, your understanding of the history of Intel, Zilog, and the industry >in general is lacking. > >The design and process technology resources were instead committed to the >8086, The design for the Z-80 was completed and in Intel's hands. Intel didn't want to build the Z-80, they wanted to focus on peripheral chips, so they let Shima go and start Zilog. and history is rather clear about the wisdom of doing that. Intel is >now capitalized at something like $50-70 billion, and Zilog is no longer on >the radar screen. No! The 8086 wasn't "wise," it was a crock. (The _principle_ of building a 16-bit microprocessor was just fine, and in fact necessary. It's their product that sucked.) Brain-dead segmented architecture, 64k per segment limitation, 1-megabyte memory limitation. The only thing that made it appear like a wise move (and even then, only in hindsight) was the fact that IBM was even more idiotic, and selected it (actually, worse, the 8088!) for their PC. Even a bad standard can be hugely profitable, and that is what kept Intel alive. Furthermore, the only way Intel got the 8086 off the ground was to buy off AMD to support the 8086, as opposed to the Z-8000 as they had done in a long series of anti-8086 ads in about 1978 or so. (you do recall the series, don't you? You know, the two guys on the soapboxes?) They later stiffed AMD by refusing to deliver the design for the 386, and they got raked over the coals for that a few years ago in court. Pure fraud. Intel's misbehavior has probably kept the price of the leading-edge generation microprocessor at least a factor of 3 higher than it would have been had AMD been allowed to compete according to their 1978 agreement. Much of the capitalization you speak of, therefore, was the product of this fraud. The world would have been far better off if they'd chosen the 68000 for the IBM PC. I suspect the reason IBM didn't was that they thought it would be easier to push around tiny Intel rather than the electronics giant Motorola. They were probably right about this limited interpretation, but in exchange for a little temporary control they doomed the world to a built-in series of design crocks that only began with the innate limitations of the 8088. Every product for the PC you buy today is more expensive, less reliable, harder to install, less compatible, more complicated for less benefit, has less competition, and is in general less desirable because of the mistakes Intel made in the middle 1970's, and IBM made in 1980 or so. These mistakes weren't repaired in subsequent incarnations of the 286, 386 and others, or IBM's AT, etc, because they were _architecture_ problems and software-design problems that cannot be "repaired." Why is it that you can afford 32 megabytes of DRAM, yet you'd get insufficient-memory errors if you're not careful with you CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT? (Combination of Intel's dumb mistake of a 1-meg memory limitation, and IBM's filling of 1/3 of that space with crap.) Why is it that you can't put two color displays on the latest PC's? (IBM's dumb mistake: Memory-mapped video that can't be re-addressed.) Why can't you put a dozen peripheral devices into a PC, and you have trouble with even 3-4, and are forced to look up all the DMA's, Interrupts, and COM ports to ensure no overlap? (IBM's dumb mistake.) I could go on, but what's the point? The PC architecture is pure crap, and I'm saying that as a person who uses them daily, and will not own a Mac because of Apple's legal misbehavior. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: PBS show
by Brad Shantz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May Wrote: > I personally despise the term "nerd," but I won't get into that here. > (Except to say that "nerds," "geeks," and "dweebs" are terms of insult, and > anyone who accepts this labelling by the media and by "jerks" (a comparable > term, by the way) is proably just a dweeb anyone, so I guess the term is > accurate.) I just caught this show last night. And enjoyed it. I personally thought that Steve Jobs quoting Picasso with the "True artists steal" line in regards to copying others work for personal gain was interesting. Since I live 10 blocks away from the main MS Campus, I hear everything there is to hear about Bill Gates. So, it was really unnecessary for me to watch the hour and a hlaf devoted strictly to who Bill stole what from. **GRIN** > Those were exciting times. But, having worked at Intel during those heady > days, and being pretty active these days on the Net, I'd have to say the > Web, Net, Java, etc. are *just as exciting* (if not more so) than those > days. So, the best years are probably yet to come. Having started my "prefessional" Internet career at SPRY in 1993, I agree that the best of the Internet is yet to come. Bill Gates said in the show last night that it is almost impossible to judge where the market will be in a year because things are changing so fast. Right now everything is a buzzword. JAVA, etc...they are all infant technologies that if marketed correctly could lead to the next revolution. > (BTW, I also had an ARPANET account in 1973, when there were only several > sites as nodes.) I was 2 until August of 1973. **GRIN** I didn't even know that the pictures on the TV weren't real yet. > So, a pretty fair history of the industry. Probably the best such show I've > seen. I do wish they'd picked a better title though. Brad

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Re: PBS show
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:30 PM 6/13/96, jim bell wrote: >At 10:31 AM 6/13/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: ... >>The comments about the floppies (" VERY SMALL capacity floppies (which were >>very slow as well") is even more off-base. > >The original Apple II floppy held ONLY 90 kilobytes on a 5" floppy. How did >they do such a bad job? And the cost of these floppies was very low--I seem to recall $150 or $175. In those days, when 8" externals weighed 50-70 pounds and cost a few thousand dollars, this was a notable achievement. Remember, the standards of 1978 are not the standards of today. The "standard" then, for personal computers that were affordable, was an external cassette recorder ("TARBELL" standard). Go back and look at issues of "Byte" or "Interface Age" or "Dr. Dobbs" to see what was really available. Given the low cost of the Apple unit, it's a marvel they could do it at all. The "IWM" was the key. Just plain good design. And "only 90 KB" is also misleading in implying Apple was behind the times. The IBM PC launched 3 years later had a built-in cassette port and only offered 180K diskette drives (later upgraded to 360K). Really, blasting Apple for poor design and for not providing higher-capacity floppies, when the competition was doing far worse, is laughable. >The design for the Z-80 was completed and in Intel's hands. Intel didn't >want to build the Z-80, they wanted to focus on peripheral chips, so they >let Shima go and start Zilog. Your history is flawed. Faggin and Shima did not have a completed Z-80 design when they left; if they did, Intel would hardly have let them take it with them when they left! As the Gen Xers would say, "Duh." Read up on some of the histories of the time. Intel never chose to focus on "peripherals," they chose to build both. (If anything, EPROMs were the profit center in the mid- to late-70s, not either processors or peripherals.) At the time you are apparently referring to, the mid-70s, Intel had a huge effort started to develop the "8800." While this was ultimately a failure, it is supremely stupid to use 20-20 hindsight without looking at more issues. All development efforts and companies involve lots of decisions, lots of tradeoffs, lots of hurt feelings, and lots of apparent mistakes. Arguing that Apple could have introduced a high-capacity floppy in 1978, or that Intel should have developed the Z-8000, is just plain pointless nonsense. We could all speculate about how some company should have done things differently, knowing what we know now. The rest of Bell's points are just typical PC-microprocessor flame material. Use what you want to use, just don't rewrite history to fit your theories. I won't comment further on this thread. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: PBS show
by wxfield＠shore.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I enjoyed the show as well...I was a bit young when the Altair was first published in Radio Elec., but that didn't stop me from trying to build one. I recall spending 100's of hours piecing it all together - it all made sense when I 'wrote' 3 hours of code to add a stack of numbers together. It was (and still is) and addictive feeling to think (back then) "Wow, I just did the same thing they were doing with Eniac in my bedroom!" Now then, if we can only get Hollywood to accurately portray computers in films...there's a hack. ;) BTW-If you are still 'caught up' in the innovative 'demo or die' theme the show portrays check out the following site (http://www.be.com/) - I'm sure many of you have already been there? Are there any "Be" developers here? What are your thoughts?

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Class III InfoWar: TST Article
by norm＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There are two things that they may be speaking of: 1. Causing transient errors to crash the system and cause restarts that may take many minutes. 2. Actually damage the machines. I imagine that only a small fraction of the energy required to damage the hardware is necessary to introduce serious transient errors. IBM used to test the main frames as they installed them. They had to resist several inch sparks drawn between the machine and a one meter frame. Software diagnostics ran during the test. I think that few desk top machines would survive that. EMP (Electro Magnetic Impulse), a side effect of nuclear devices, is purportedly able to damage electronics over distances of many miles. Some weapons may be designed to enhance this. Ordinary high explosives can produce a scaled down result. EMP is strategic only because it damages electronics that are too far enough to be damaged by the blast. I suspect that high explosive EMPs are similar in this regard. The physics behind this is not abstruse. A significant part of the explosive energy can be turned into EMP whether the source is nuclear or chemical. How well it can be directed is probably highly classified. The "antenna" is vaporized in either case and dissipates much of the energy. The energy comes out in 10's of microseconds for high explosives and fractions of a microsecond for nuclear. I don't know how much it takes to fry an IC but judging from the wrist straps that are recommended for installing ICs I would guess that it is a fraction of a Joule. (I once discovered that a one Joule jolt really hurt.) Faraday cages attenuate EMP by the same factor that they attenuate secrets. I think that if a blast doesn't damage the cage then neither will the EMP. Of course the cage may survive but fail to protect the interior (insufficient attenuation). I don't know whether a cage sufficient for tempest is sufficient for EMP protection. Comm lines and power cables go thru the cage and cause problems here as well. Perhaps hefty surge protectors suffice here. Communications equipment outside the cage should at least be equipped to recover quickly upon transient error and not tear donw circuits. Normal error control can then hopefully compensate for the transient. (IP, ATM, Frame relay??) A large capacitor can discharge a lot of power in a short time without causing nearly so much commotion as an explosion. Discharging a one kg 25000 volt capacitor makes a lot of noise, however. I don't know how well it can be muffled.

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Re: PBS show
by Blake Wehlage 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:35 AM 6/13/96 -0800, jim bell wrote: >At 10:26 PM 6/12/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: > >> >But the Apple II WAS a toy! Non-detached keyboard, poor placement of reset >key, upper-case only, 40-character wide display, odd microprocessor, VERY >SMALL capacity floppies (which were very slow as well), as well as a hostile >legal situation regarding the building of clones. Hell, they even objected >to other companies building boards which plugged into the bus! I was not a toy it was what started the PC revolution >I have other, even harsher word for the design of the IBM PC. Oh yes, the >Mac sucks bigtime as well, although primarily for legal reasons. > Mac rule they have an awesome GUI (graphical user interface), easy of use it way up there and they have bitchin' software. I know i will regret saying this but: The mac OS is 3 times better than Windows '95 (Eat that Bill!) >Jim Bell >jimbell(a)pacifier.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Blake "Pokey" Wehlage Age-13 Gaa- 3.69 (for ice hockey goalie) <jwilk(a)iglou.com> My page- http://www.iglou.com/members/jwilk.html Quote- Does whiskey count as beer? -Homer Simpson

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microcurrency implementation
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

an interesting system that lets people bill for web pages using telephone 800 number technology. ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:19:37 -0300 From: Rick McGinnis <rick(a)dragon.mediadial.com> Message-Id: <199606111819.PAA07849(a)dragon.mediadial.com> Via-Web Access now perfected! Instantly bill people over the web through long distance numbers. 1. Paid in US funds for all 90+ countries using the net! 2. Payouts are weekly! 3. Receive $0.25 US for every minute. 4. Easier than any web billing procedure currently used. 5. Everyone has a phone. If you would like to try Via-Web Access, please call... Can and US Dial 011-592-583-423 Other Countries ++592-583-423 The Via-Web Access home page can be found at: http://stsim.com/mdc/viaweb/

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CDA & Clinton
by Daniel Salenger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It looks as though even after the temporary court injunction against major portions of the CDA, Clinton still wants to push it: http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/960612/news/stories/internet_4.html Very unfortunate. Please protect us from ourselves Bill. Dan Salenger dsalenger(a)dttus.com

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Web Based Encrypted Backup
by foodie＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Connected Corporation announced DataSafe, a Mac/Windows web based backup service. $14.95/Month for 50MB, archival CD-ROM for $24.95 each. Offers passwords and DES encryption. Storage is on 2 mirrored sites. Phone # (508) 270-0035, http://www.connected.com/. >From thier site: ------- Security DataSafe uses the federally approved Data Encryption Standard (DES) with a 56-bit key to encrypt all of your data before it leaves your PC. This level of encryption is so powerful, it is not permitted to be exported outside of the United States (we use a different, but similarly powerful encryption scheme for our international customers). You have the option to choose your own encryption password, which is never transferred to us over the modem. In this way, no one but you can read your data - not when it is in transfer to us, nor when it is being stored in encrypted format at our secure operations centers. When this level of encryption is combined with the fact that we only transmit the portions of each file that change every day, not the entire file, the chances that anyone will be able to read or make use of your data as it travels over the network are practically eliminated. DataSafe uses the TCP/IP communications protocol for both its private dial-up network and Internet-based services. -------- I really like the idea of distributed, encrypted backups, but this strikes me as the kind of thing that has the potential to get a lot of gullible people in trouble. Hopefully someone offshore with proven security and a wider choice of algorithms will compete... (I don't know if Connected is good at security, so this shouldn't be construed as a swipe at them. Does anyone know anything about them?) -j -- The signal is the noise. ____________________________________________________________________ Jamie Lawrence mailto:jal@cyborganic.net mailto:foodie@netcom.com

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RSAREF down?
by Howard Melman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anyone know anything about this? tmp> ftp ftp.rsa.com Connected to ftp.rsa.com. 220- 220-Welcome to the RSA Data Security, Inc. FTP Archive. [...] 220-***************** Special Announcement ******************* 220- 220- RSAREF has been taken down until further notice. 220- We will keep you informed for any new announcement. 220- 220-***********************************************************

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doubleclick monitoring web browsing habits
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A post on comp.risks described a web adverstising service called "doubleclick". As described in its web pages at <URL: http://ad.doubleclick.net >, this service provides targetted advertising on the web. Participating web sites include links to doubleclick to show graphic images. Advertisers sign up with doubleclick and specify profiles for where and when they want their ads to appear. Doubleclick then selects an ad for each user who visits a participating site. Participating sites get paid for each such hit, and advertisers pay based on how many hits are expected. Apparently this is being used quite a bit. But what I found disturbing was the scope of the information being collected by doubleclick. The various parameters that advertisers can use in setting up their profiles for where their ads should appear are described at <URL: http://ad.doubleclick.net/advertising/adreghelp.htm > and include: TARGET BY WEB PAGE/SITE CATEGORY TARGET BY SERVICE PROVIDER (SP) TARGET BY GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION We determine a person's geographic location through the physical location of their network or through user registration. We have created an extensive map of both organization and Internet Service Provider (ISP) networks. TARGET BY USER'S OPERATING SYSTEM TARGET BY USER'S BROWSER TYPE TARGET BY HIGH-LEVEL INTERNET DOMAIN TYPE TARGET BY ORGANIZATION TYPE (SIC CODE) TARGET BY ORGANIZATION SIZE OR REVENUE TARGET BY PERSONAL INTERESTS doubleclick.net continues to add to an extensive database of user interests from activity on doubleclick.net member web sites as well as from publicly available sources like netnews. User interests are kept strictly confidential and will not be released to advertisers. We do allow advertisers to target ad banners based on user's interests. The more your ad banner is targeted at specific user interests, the more likely you are to generate a response. Personal interest categories include: Arts and Literature Business, Finance, and Economy Computers, Software and Internet Culture, Religion, and Society Education and InstructionalEntertainment Government, Politics, and Military Health and Medicine News Recreation and LeisureScience and Technology Social Science Sports Travel This last category is the really worrisome one. doubleclick monitors the web browsing habits of users whenever they hit a doubleclick- participating site, and builds up databases about users from that, as well as from usenet posts. This is exactly what people have been talking about as an abuse of privacy on the net. One question is whether enough information to uniquely identify users is routinely provided by widely used browsers like Netscape. I have refrained from telling my Netscape browser my name and email address out of fear that it would reveal this information; as a result, I can't use mailto: links, which is annoying (and also suspicious; lynx allows me to do mailto: without permanently entering an email address). This points out the need for browser providers to be sensitive to the privacy needs of their users and to clearly explain when and under what circumstances private information is revealed. It also suggests that services like www.anonymizer.com will be increasingly important for people to protect their privacy while browsing. Hal

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Re: PBS show
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:40 PM 6/13/96 -0400, Warren wrote: >I enjoyed the show as well...I was a bit young when the Altair was first >published in Radio Elec., Nope. Popular Electronics. January, 1975 issue. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Class III InfoWar: TST Article
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

N.B. Joss(a)netcom.com was not acceptable to netcom At 1:13 PM 6/13/96 -0800, Norman Hardy wrote: >EMP (Electro Magnetic Impulse), a side effect of nuclear devices, is >purportedly able to damage electronics over distances of many miles. Some >weapons may be designed to enhance this. I vaguely remember hearing that a nuclear device exploded high over the midwest would have significant EMP effects over half the continental USA. When a USSR pilot flew a "state of the art" fighter out and US intelligence got their hands on it we were surprised that all the electronics were vacuum tubes. However, vacuum tubes are highly resistant to EMP. (They arc between elements, rather than fry like ICs.) >Faraday cages attenuate EMP by the same factor that they attenuate secrets. >I think that if a blast doesn't damage the cage then neither will the EMP. >Of course the cage may survive but fail to protect the interior >(insufficient attenuation). I don't know whether a cage sufficient for >tempest is sufficient for EMP protection. Comm lines and power cables go >thru the cage and cause problems here as well. Perhaps hefty surge >protectors suffice here. Communications equipment outside the cage should >at least be equipped to recover quickly upon transient error and not tear >donw circuits. Normal error control can then hopefully compensate for the >transient. (IP, ATM, Frame relay??) Makes you want fiber optic comm cable. Protection inside the cage probably depends on how powerful the EMP is. However, the need for some degree of stealth in Class III InfoWar will limit the strength of the EMP. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The Internet may fairly be | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | regarded as a never-ending | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | worldwide conversation. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: Insults (was: PBS show)
by Blake Wehlage 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Geek Pride! Yes! Time to start Hacked-Up! > >"We're Freaks! We're Geeks! We've got RSA, Get Used To It" > >--- >Cause maybe (maybe) | In my mind I'm going to Carolina >you're gonna be the one that saves me | - back in Chapel Hill May 16th. >And after all | Email address remains unchanged >You're my firewall - | ........First in Usenet......... > > Speak for yourself, man! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Blake "Pokey" Wehlage Age-13 Gaa- 3.69 (for ice hockey goalie) <jwilk(a)iglou.com> My page- http://www.iglou.com/members/jwilk.html Quote- Does whiskey count as beer? -Homer Simpson

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Re:
by Blake Wehlage 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:07 PM 6/13/96 -0400, Duncan Frissell wrote: >"We're sitting here watching the sun rise for the first time and we've never >even seen the sun" > >-- Rush Limbaugh about the Internet on today's show. Rush also opined that >it was impossible to regulate. > They will never be able to regulate the net, look at he first and main use for it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Blake "Pokey" Wehlage Age-13 Gaa- 3.69 (for ice hockey goalie) <jwilk(a)iglou.com> My page- http://www.iglou.com/members/jwilk.html Quote- Does whiskey count as beer? -Homer Simpson

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Re: President Clinton's Statement on the CDA Decision
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 13 Jun 96 at 13:57, Jonah Seiger wrote: > THE WHITE HOUSE [..] > STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT [..] > I remain convinced, as I was when I signed the bill, that our Constitution > allows us to help parents by enforcing this Act to prevent children from > being exposed to objectionable material transmitted though computer > networks. I will continue to do everything I can in my Administration to Really? Where does it say "...except to help parents protect children" in the Bill of Rights? Hm. Maybe he should have inhaled. Oxygen is good for reading comprehension. My apologies to non-USers on the list. Rob. --- No-frills sig. Befriend my mail filter by sending a message with the subject "send help" Key-ID: 5D3F2E99 1996/04/22 wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com (root@magneto) AB1F4831 1993/05/10 Deranged Mutant <wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com> Send a message with the subject "send pgp-key" for a copy of my key.

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Re: "Neil, the government wouldn't tap the phones of American Reporters"
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:11 PM 6/11/96 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: >"Neil, the government wouldn't tap the phones of American Reporters" >- Hedrick Smith to his NYT colleague Neil Sheehan, while working >on the Pentagon Papers project - he was incorrect, and his phones >_were_ being tapped.... > >CSPAN-2 is doing a 25-year retrospective on the Pentagon Papers this week; >Daniel Ellsberg, Hedrick Smith, and others were on tonight, >with people from other sides on later this week. Cool show so far! > While I didn't pay any appreciable attention to the Pentagon Papers case at the time, it is worth noting that the only reason that it "occurred" (appeared in the media) was that a few reporters decided it was worth opposing the government. Today, this stuff would just pop up on the Internet without the approval or participation of the media: Obviously, this is a vast reduction of the influence of the media, and a corresponding increase in the power of the individual. _THIS_ is the kind of thing that the government fears; it has cultivated its relationships with the news media for many decades, and doesn't want circumstances to change. The Watergate incident is yet another one of those things which might not have "happened" without media people inclined to do it then, but that is no longer the truth today. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Semi-Transcript: Pro-CODE hearings on CSPAN-2
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I caught part of the Burns S.1726 Pro-CODE hearings on CSPAN-2 tonight. Various speakers got about 5 minutes each; most had their full testimony in the printed record in addition to informal speaking. Then the Senators got to grill them. I can't type like Kerouac, so this will be pretty random and sketchy, almost all mistakes are mine... (Punctuation, spelling, abbrevs. etc. don't count - sorry :-) There were several rounds of ~4 panelees I caught the first couple but it's ~2am. Lots of people emphasized "We recognize the legitimate needs of law enforcement, but other things are more important to national security, and crypto is Inevitable, inevitable, inevitable, so get used to it." Senator Burns was showing the NTT RSA chips - he had a bit of trouble remembering which Triple-DES pieces were 56/168/1024 bits, saying "I have a good memory but it's short :-)" Pressler arrived late (he's also busy marking up a tax bill where big airports want one kind of tax and little ones want another - used this as an analogy and ducked out soon.) He held up a copy of Applied Cryptography "I haven't read it all yet", and commented that he could ship the book out but not the floppy. "We've all got to take cracks at reading summaries of books like this." "The Cold War is over" "This is government trying to catch up, and government is 10-15 years behind." "We have to protect banking, and protect the ability of the FBI to protect people." Jim Barksdale of Netscape talked about how fast his company has grown; as with other speakers like Bidzos, he talked about how if you miss a market window, you can't catch up. His background includes military intelligence and working for a large cell-phone company, and he had no problem cooperating with the "legitimate needs of law enforcement" when they had warrants - but he considers the need for encryption to be more critical, and considers the cat to be out of the bag. He put up a poster with a web page www.thawte.com/products/sioux, a web server product competing directly with Netscape Server and products from several other people at the table here today - the product's web page emphasizes how it's not limited by US export controls. It's SSLeay based. Zisman from Lotus and Business Software Alliance talked; I missed most of it and part of Bidzos's. Jim Bidzos talked about lots of things, including the NTT chips (Burns held them up - they're small). Emphasizes NTT biggest company in world. Cat's out of bag, crypto inevitable. Flamed escrow. "Bill Gates called the latest escrow proposal 'No proposal'" Inevitability of real crypto internationally. Tim Kraus Kopf of Spyglass talked about how Mosaic is OEMed by many companies, US and overseas, and about his frustration about not being able to provide good service to his overseas customers - not only short-key crypto, but can't provide source. Decided to see how much crypto was readily available overseas, did AltaVista search for Apache-SSL, found it all over the world - PacRim, Germany, Australia, talked about how SSLeay is Australian-written, contains RSA,RC2/4,DES, etc., and is used in products like Sioux that competes with his servers and NS's. Burns asked Barksdale about whether key escrow extends powers of gov't etc. Barksdale "We're not against key escrow, just mandatory, but it won't work, there isn't a compromise, there isn't some clever back door, but it simply won't work. If we _could_ make it work, we'd have done it a while ago so we wouldn't be taking our time today" "We have some national security interests - well what are they - we can't tell you - that's like talking to a guy who keeps quoting God - NRC report last week _had_ seen all the details and said it won't work" Bidzos - to reinvent the software infrastructure to do key escrow would take 3-5 years, couldn't really trust third parties to do it. Imagine Netscape and Microsoft waiting 3-5 years doing this instead of spending their time competing. Pressler? Banks? Bidzos: In my interest the banks don't understand yet Kraus Kopf: Double encryption anyway - you'll find a safe in the locked room. Burns: American Bankers' Assoc endorsed the bill. Can't a warrant let them get information without needing escrow and wiretaps? Bidzos: We've heard aministration say the industry wants escrow - only if you carefully interpret what that means - companies may do their own, don't understand what justifies radical change that brings in third parties and mandatory escrow Wyden: What do you folks think will happen if we don't modernize? Zisman@Lotus - will really hold back technology - internet growth speed absolutely levels playing field between largest players and smallest players trmendously empowering to small business and what we're doing here interferes with that. People used to accept 40 bits, don't any more, though big customers don't think it's a "joke" like some customers say. this is a lose-lose proposition. Wyden: Bidzos - we'll hear the Admin saying foreign products aren't as good, how will we know foreign products contain what they assert? Bidzos - it's easy - can download source code & read it, see if it works, and it _does_ work as well or better. 2) test interoperability, since you can import it and verify it's identical. German and Japanese chips very good, use US patents, high school textbooks, etc. often overlooked cost - we'll have our lunch eaten here in the US as well, not just overseas markets - say MNC wants secure comms, buys Japanese. Wyden: Barksdale - concerned that overall the government has consistently been fighting yesterday's battle - everybody was against smut but private sector vs. smut cops, fortunately courts making good decisions - how to catch up and be pro-active instead of behind Barksdale - we've given fair amount of thought - dump key escrow, dump limited key lengths, won't work, last war - it's a given. Understand crypto only a portion of sigint, other ways start at source or destination - subpoenas, most people who have a mind to do harm don't use the internet, they use phones. So what can we do that _does_ work? Look for new ways, not restricting old ways to make things that won't work kinda work, worst approach. John Kerry D-Mass - My state has emormous stake, and I'm former prosecutor, trying to come to grips with choices - how do you find out what others selling - are they living up to level of proficiency they're advertising. Bidzos: Largest corp in world NTT just did the chips, would deny reality to say otherwise KrausKopf - advantage in encryption it's easy to verify because if you can decrypt it you know it works Bidzos - some of the foreign implementations don't measure up, and don't doubt some US entities can exploit, but problem - process by which deficiencies are resolved is improving rapidly, testing by import to US, next step may be for overseas products to be incompatible with US so if you want good security you need to buy South African instead of US, you can buy over Internet. They're not as good as we are, improving rapidly, larger companies _are_ as good. Kerry - is this inevitiability curve? Bidzos - yep. Intelligence folks are very good but their job isn't to care about whether we lose market share. K - if you know what we knew? Z - NRC did know, 13/16 security cleared. Market inevitability. too much Focus on key escrow instead of getting intelligence community equipped to deal with it. K - Alternatives if escrow won't work? Z - Escrow in legal sense vs. this stuff. Impractical, and won't catch bad guys, unacceptible to market. Voluntary key recovery something big companies already do, and warrants can get those from places that use them. These discussions going on for a long time, being brought to a head, need immediate relief and action so we can have a playing field where we can compete K - you do accept legitimate needs Z - sure, but reject idea that current policies affect that K - so you think it's inevitable that won't work Z - yeah K - do you believe there's potential for cyberterrorism that could impact either defense comms or financial institutions Barksdale - sure - that's why we need tight encryption instead of this loosey-goosey stuff we've got. Can you imagine pressure on holder of key escrow for international circumvention to get that file? KK - security depends on number of doors, not just lock strength. Bidzos - intelligence worried about increased costs, idiot-proof crypto, but that's the inevitability we have to accept. Significant loss of jobs and revenues if don't act, NSA doesn't understand market forces, "other than that they're doing fine" :-) and risk backlash that could completely lose them any controls, if we were to raise speed limit to 100 mph, you'd see us investing in faster police cars Burns - in Montana we don't have speed limit :-) Burns - are y'all saying this policy puts us at more risk than without it Everybody - yes, we've been saying this for long time, national security is much stronger with crypto protecting the computers we're dependent on. Bidzos? We get asked what if terrorist brings down airliner? Well, in this computer age, what if a 12-year-old does? We need crypto to prevent that sort of problem. Kerry - market share, clearly understand, trying to balance interests Wyden - are you discussing software with intelligence community? new partnership on software side like have with hardware Bidzos - couldn't agree more - NSA thinks talking AT&T & Motorola is whole industry. And without prior consultation, all we've gotten has been Clipper Chip and key escrow Barksdale - My CTO talking at NSA? conference Friday, happy to talk Zisman - expertise exists, much better to invest in intelligence-gathering techniques than implementing diversionary stuff that won't work Kerry - if you're US attorney and get a wiretap you can't read, what happens if can't break - are we saying law enforce needs new tools Barks - yes sir, just like conversation on street hard to tap K - so we just have to adjust B - yes sir Bidzos - 40-bit agreement between NSA and industry waS that 40-bit level would be periodically raised - we might not be having this confrontation if NSA'd done their part and taken us seriously Kenneth Dam of NRC Panel next on agenda - also brought with him Jules Katz former deputy USTR, 30 years export control, Herb Lin, staff director, has whole report still in printing but we can get you copies now. volume August. executive summary and full statement available Keeping confidential info private is very hard. Criminals, corporate spies, crucial systems vulnerable to all sorts of people. Crypto an important, vital tool for protecting citizens privacy and legitimate business interests. Bad Guys can also use it. Feds must weigh issues. NRC study asked for by Congress. We have diverse interests, but have strong consensus, 13/16 got cleared for classified materials, unanimously conclude that debate can be carried out reasonably on unclassified basis. Wider use of crypto will support everyone's interest even though will make it harder for law enforcement. Don't believe total drop export controls, though relaxing will help. DOmestic/Foreign version split bad at home - govt needs to make it easier for US companies. Should be easy to export DES. US world market leadership good for national security. No legal limits domestically! "National security vs. business security" is over-simplistic - protecting civilian infrastructure stengthens national security. Escrow promising but unproven, risky - resolving some issues would require legislation, but there's not enough experience to base it on anything but speculation - government should pursue for internal use, developing policy with open public discussion. Only way to get consensus is Congressional discussion. Burns - we politicians will take the parts we like and throw the rest away :-) Why are National Security folks unwilling or reluctant to try other approaches? Dam - Law Enf vs. National Security - N.S. folks recognize responsibility to protect whole country's security, including infrastructure, so they're more balanced. Law Enf has different concerns - they're interested in surreptitious eavesdropping phone conversations and data - also want to hold down crime, and computers are growing part of that, LE under pressure to solve big high-profile crimes fast and pre-empt, like blowing up World Trade Center. They have other ways to get info, e.g. subpoena, warrants, but most people don't keep records of phone calls that can be subpoenaed, and this is the heart of their concern. Burns - still vulnerable to terrorism because we're open and free, but jsut as vulnerable to industrial espionage, need real crypto to prevent. more risk from industrial than terrorists. Thought report was very complete on that. Wyden? Wyden: report ought to be real wake-up call for Clinton folks in field. Very prestigious report. Mr. Dam - you were at State in 80s, part of team advocating strong controls, why did you change your mind? Dam - crypto export wasn't big issue then, world changing fast, industrial vulnerability criticial, info security in INformation Age. Dam - wants to allow >DES export for products that make plaintext available. For people to understand the issues, they'll have to get up to speed on a lot of issues, but they're not classified ones. Wyden wants Dam to lead discussions between software folks and NSA-side, hopes some convergence and cooperation can happen. =========================================================== Next panel - HP, EDS, etc. Dan Buchanan - Zion's Data Svcs. in Salt Lake - Bank holding business. Utah digital Signatures laws. Computer breakins in financial businesses - we need strong crypto to be able to compete with foreign banks and preserve our own assets. Our biggest asset is the trust we represent to our customers - essential that we not be limited in use of crypto, flexible methodologies absolutely critical as computer power increases. EDS - we're now separate from GM, trading NYSE next monday. We're world-wide, chasing global electronic commerce markets, need secure, speedy, efficient communications, restrictions reduce our competitiveness. Pleasant calm pro-crypto speech. Good for Industry, Good for America! HP - Richard Sevick. HP speaker showing off his smart card, says 500 million around world, need stronger crypto than export allows, international competitors. HP projects 4 billion smart cards in use by Y2000, US companies can't afford to miss it, need this export liberalization. It's also an international problem, not just national - HP working with US and G7 to get international framework for crypto, needs legislative support from S.1726 - Proposes Crypto engines on servers which don't work without smartcard "flag chips" to let you use your government-approved crypto chip to authorize different levels of encryption as needed. [WCS comment - yukkk! I'm trying to be objective, but.....] Can do shopping at home with security! Companies can interchange sensitive info, level of crypto flexible as authorized by national governments. Pilots this fall with computer vendors, banks, phone companies, expect approval, want S.1726 to help them export its framework. Burns - if we're going to live in a micro-chip and supercomputer industry, why should we hang on to the old vaccuum tube? Seen proposals for smart cards for foodstamps/welfare/wic/etc. fraud prevention because foodstamps are sold on street. Joel Lisker from MasterCard - MC uses crypto for PINs, smartcards - 40-bit key way too short, computer hackers can crack in seconds, can't export strong enough smartcards without long slow negotiations. Held up Spanish chip-card from Europay, their counterpart in Spain - if we gave this kind of card to US customer, not clear they could take it with them in their wallet on trip out of US because export laws. Burns - are your customers reluctant to do business on phone, divulging account numbers etc. - Lisker - younger people usually more comfortable but older customers more concerned about compromise. Sevcik - people trust smartcards more with PINs since they can't be used if stolen. Burns - some trials of smartcards for foodstamps annoyed bureaucrats because it doesn't take as many people at the courthouse counting food stamps. ==================================== aharon friedman digital secured networks technology hardware crypto product company in NJ - 512-bit keys minimum length needed is 75 bits to be close to unbreakable. 40 not enough - can buy $400 chip to break 5 hours, etc. $300K break 0.18 seconds Security agencies would like us to use 56 bits, same $300K of off-the-shelf stuff 19 days to break, but same $300K of custom chips can break in 3 hours as described in open literature doesn't matter if escrow, can break anyway Also need key-exchange, public-key eg. RSA govt doesn't allow itself <1024 bit keys we're forced to deliver security products that we don't believe provide security. overseas customers aren't stupid, they won't buy it. Job loss estimates His company has many requests for their technology, thinks it's one of the best, 700 foreign companies request it. Large Japanese compnay wants to buy lots. We can't sell and govt dragging feet even for evaluation copies. We lose. American companies want to communicate with foreign companies - what can they buy? They'll buy NTT or Siemens. Showed "Applied Crypto" book source code in back, any criminal can type it in or buy a scanner. Ex-FBI head says "give me 5 hackers and I can bring down US" Easier to write crypto code than make a bomb - law-enforcement agencies know this. Quotes NYT editorial - clearly it's time to revise policy. robert bigony senior-vp marketing govt & space motorola in scottsdale Moto at center of debate because of products we make. ===================================================== ..... I'm not going to transcribe the rest.... and the recorded Senator Burns wants to get to lunch :-) Bill # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # http://www.idiom.com/~wcs # Dispel Authority!

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PR firm...
by caal＠hopf.dnai.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

sorry guys, his e-mail is pr@middleberg.com...just in case you want to send him a message...maybe you know of rogue web site that need to be closed down, censored, pushed behind an Iron Curtain

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Re: PBS show
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:31 AM 6/13/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >The comments about the floppies (" VERY SMALL capacity floppies (which were >very slow as well") is even more off-base. In fact, it was probably Apple's >ability to put _any_ kind of floppies on the Apple II, for a reasonable >price, that ensured its success. Just commenting on the niceness of the existence of floppies, I remember when I got a floppy for the C-64 I was floored. I'd been dumping my code to audio tape (record it once, change the volume a little, record it again, change the treble a little, etc. about 3 times to be sure it was on the tape) for years! Even the c-64's slow drives were FAST in comparison to sitting by the tape recorder listening for a break in screechy noise to hear me say "pong 3" or something. <grin> I could store 10 tapes worth of stuff on a floppy nearly instaneaously, and access it randomly! And once I got the little cartridge (mach 5) which blanked the screen during floppy access (one of the major reasons, among other things, the c-64 was so slow) it was like lightening... <smile> _______________________ Regards, The lust for comfort murders the passions of the soul. -Kahlil Gibran Joseph Reagle http://farnsworth.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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Re: doubleclick monitoring web browsing habits
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 13 Jun 96 at 16:19, Hal wrote: > A post on comp.risks described a web adverstising service called > "doubleclick". As described in its web pages at <URL: > http://ad.doubleclick.net >, this service provides targetted > advertising on the web. [..] > One question is whether enough information to uniquely identify users > is routinely provided by widely used browsers like Netscape. I have Supposedly Netscape has been responsive to this. One of the changes in 2.0 had to do with giving out personal info (and people can verify this if they have the servers, etc.) > refrained from telling my Netscape browser my name and email address out > of fear that it would reveal this information; as a result, I can't use > mailto: links, which is annoying (and also suspicious; lynx allows me to > do mailto: without permanently entering an email address). Lynx running under Unix can find out who you are on the system by checking your user id and the hostname. Rob. --- No-frills sig. Befriend my mail filter by sending a message with the subject "send help" Key-ID: 5D3F2E99 1996/04/22 wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com (root@magneto) AB1F4831 1993/05/10 Deranged Mutant <wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com> Send a message with the subject "send pgp-key" for a copy of my key.

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National DNA Data Bank
by quax＠interserv.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The New York Times today writes on a report to be released today on the establishment of a national DNA data bank to parallel the national fingerprint system. The DNA system was authorized in a little-noted provision of the 1994 Crime Control Act. The article states that one of the DNA system's main advantage over fingerprinting will be in identifying sexual and other bodily assault criminals who leave tell-tales, as well as in correcting victims' sometimes faulty identification of innocents. Some civil libertarians are critical of the project as invasive of privacy. Law enforcement officials and others applaud it, two of whom are OJ's former attorneys, Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld, who run the Innocence Project, a program which uses DNA testing to help free those falsely convicted.

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PR Firm To Tame Net
by caal＠hopf.dnai.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Did anyone on this list read the SF Chronicle article a few days ago about a PR firm, that "tames rogue Web sites". It monitors the Web for these sites, finds the people who created them and tries to convince them to go offline. "if gentle persuasion doesn't wprk", said the founder, "you need to bring in the lawyers". He gives the example of a Kmart Sucks site, created by a disgruntled employee, and the First Boston site where a former employee published proprietary salary figures...I guess he doesn't know that making derogatory comments is LEGAL. You know, we were talking these days about the Net putting the masses back in mass media...this guy says these days are over. His e-mail address is m.a(a)ix.netcom.com.

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Re: [NOISE] Re: PBS show
by Blake Wehlage 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:06 PM 6/13/96 -0700, William R. Ward wrote: > >I'm delurking here ... just signed up on cypherpunks, though I've >known about it for a long time. > >I don't watch TV, don't have cable, and thus can't watch this PBS show >everyon's a-buzz about. I would like to see it, though. I would be >most grateful if someone who has taped it could loan me the tape so I >could watch it. > >I live in Santa Cruz, CA, and work in Mountain View; surely someone in >the south bay has been taping this? I hope so. > >--Bill. > > > Hey Bill, they made VHS tapes for sale it the whole set, I would buy it. It was based on a book so pick up the book. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Blake "Pokey" Wehlage Age-13 Gaa- 3.69 (for ice hockey goalie) <jwilk(a)iglou.com> My page- http://www.iglou.com/members/jwilk.html Quote- Does whiskey count as beer? -Homer Simpson

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Web Based Decrypted Backup
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 13 Jun 96 at 14:23, Jamie Lawrence wrote: Disconnected Corporation announced SortaSafe, a Mac/Windows web based backup service. [..] >From thier site: > > ------- > Insecurity > > SortaSafe uses the federally approved Data Encryption Standard (DES) with a > 56-bit key to encrypt > all of your data before it leaves your PC. This level of encryption is so > powerful, only people with several thousand dollars can decrypt it. ...

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Re: PBS show
by David E. Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>I know i will regret saying this but: > >The mac OS is 3 times better than Windows '95 > Gee, what's three times zero? dave

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PR
by caal＠hopf.dnai.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Public Relations > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From xopher(a)ptd.net > Organization ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc. > Date Thu, 13 Jun 1996 00:43:02 GMT > Newsgroups alt.fan.unabomber > Message-ID <4pnobp$1lh(a)ns2.ptd.net> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > PR firm declares war on 'rogue' Web sites > > Copyright © 1996 Nando.net > Copyright © 1996 The Associated Press > > SAN FRANCISCO (Jun 10, 1996 10:23 a.m. EDT) -- To advertisers and > activists, the Internet is > nirvana -- unlimited space and the chance to get their message to the > world. To the public relations > firm of Middleberg and Associates, it's a potential nightmare. > > Before the World Wide Web, people unhappy with individual companies > were reduced to > convincing a news organization they had a legitimate gripe or standing > around handing out leaflets at > corporate headquarters. > > Now, all it takes is a weekend coding some HTML files and every > complaint or concern they've > ever had is instantly available to millions. > > "There was the 'Kmart Sucks' site, created by a disgruntled employee > who was saying a lot of mean > and nasty things about Kmart. Then there was the First Boston site, > where a former employee > published proprietary salary figures," said Don Middleberg, whose firm > protects its clients from > attacks on the Internet. > > "Companies spend small fortunes to create a brand image and something > called good will," he said. > "These sites are actively destroying them." > > To counter the threat, Middleberg's firm monitors the Web for what he > calls "rogue" sites, then finds > the people who created them and attempts to convince them to go > off-line. > > "If gentle persuasion doesn't work," he said from his New York office, > "you need to bring in the > lawyers." > > Over and above First Amendment concerns, threats of legal action are a > long way from the golden > vision of the Web as an democratic leveler rhapsodized about by Howard > Rheingold, who has > written several books about the ethos of the Internet. > > "The Internet puts the masses back in mass media. It lets anyone > publish their manifesto for all the > world to read," Rheingold said from his home near San Francisco. > > Those days are over, countered Middleberg. > > "Rheingold's perceptions of where things are might have been true a > few months ago," he said. "But > this is big business. Things have changed. This is no longer a cottage > industry. Companies have spent > millions of dollars on this. They're going to fight to protect their > sites." > > "If the lawyers decide to go after someone and a company is willing to > spend the dollars, they > certainly can threaten and make life very difficult for people." > > It's legally unclear, however, how much power companies actually have. > Merely making derogatory > comments is not illegal, said David Maher, co-chair of the > subcommittee on Internet Trademark > Issues of the International Trademark Association. > > "If you have an individual who doesn't like Ford motor cars or Burger > King and says rude things > about them, the First Amendment provides quite a shield. Just because > people are saying bad things > about you, you can't necessarily stop them," he said. > > Not only is truth a defense against libel, but trade libel law > requires that a company must show it > actually has been damaged, a higher standard than individuals, who > must show only that their > reputations have been damaged, Maher said. > > But legal or not, even the threat might be enough to shut down smaller > sites, said Jonathan Hall, a > spokesman for the environmental group Greenpeace -- which maintains an > active Web site. > > "I wouldn't be surprised if people gave in if they got a call and were > told to 'remove this or there will > be legal action.' They might do it because they don't know their legal > rights," he said. > > Greenpeace does, which is probably why the association of nuclear > energy producers Middleberg > recently spoke to considers it such a threat. > > "They are scared to death of groups like Greenpeace, who are very > clever in how they use the Net > to get a message out," Middleberg said. > > Not unexpectedly, Middleberg won't name his clients, though he says > he's added eight to the list in > the last six months. > > Other public relations firms say they haven't heard of anyone using a > similar strategy. Curtis Kundred > of Fleishman Hillard International Communications deemed it a > short-run approach that will backfire > in the end. > > "I would hope it's not the job of a public relations firm to muscle > someone into backing down from > expressing their beliefs online," added Amy Oringel of InterActive > Public Relations Inc. > > Up until now, the Web has provided a level playing field, a place > where "Joe Schmoe can have just > as much credibility as CNN," said writer Martin A. Lee, whose book > "Unreliable Sources" was an > expose of the public relations industry. > > "Money is the great unleveler in this equation," he said. "We seem to > be in the crux of a shift, when > the whole equilibrium is shifting from 'a thousand flowers blooming' > to a corporate market. It's > disturbing."

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Applied Cryptography - used copy?
by David Rosoff 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Does anyone have a used copy of Applied Cryptography they'd like to get rid of? (Reply to drosoff(a)arc.unm.edu) =============================================================================== David Rosoff (nihongo o chiisaku dekimasu) -------------> drosoff(a)arc.unm.edu For PGP key 0xD37692F9, finger drosoff(a)acoma.arc.unm.edu or get from keyservers pub 1024/D37692F9 1995/07/01 David Rosoff <drosoff(a)arc.unm.edu> Key fingerprint = 25 7D AA 01 85 41 43 89 50 5A 33 76 F1 F1 99 67 I accept anonymous mail. If I didn't sign it, you don't know I wrote it. === "Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will / To strive, to seek, to find-- and not to yield." <---- "Ulysses", by Alfred, Lord Tennyson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMcHXRBguzHDTdpL5AQFiQgP+Mj545SMMlj70nJzZhFnHiCvNZ0bx/qJy MFhKIZKX6fGINewAgHwscgPiXpQ1mRndp0K2PGeZi0IeaX7pxqZN3Mr8LEQ48Ltz CKc8zolmIIq2cRYC2bmeEDbgLNk6arct2XcJ8DMD0hBd9JMtZlX0OUo53li/zz8p dWEwYo655Sc= =xnql -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Does information want to be free?
by Mark M. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- For those interested, there is an article in the latest Scientific American about copyright laws and how they will be applied to the Internet. It used the banned French book about the former president as an example of just how difficult it is to regulate information. It also addresses whether routers (or analogously anonymous remailers) should be held liable for any copyright violations that may pass through them. - -- Mark =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= markm(a)voicenet.com | finger -l for PGP key 0xe3bf2169 http://www.voicenet.com/~markm/ | d61734f2800486ae6f79bfeb70f95348 "In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point." -- Friedrich Nietzsche -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBMcHQnbZc+sv5siulAQFcGAQAj5/LnS2usgN0ElYuH14inFZfLe3bZ6gW gyzSsuIjOp21PSfeCerQSM+7Q5DHj4EV1E17q64Npqx+q8I+bBpHOdMJuTJrRSBI M6dvmAVSB/mgcdO6rvGK5dezWTzofa+4Koo3OxGmiAtnRfcGIIN1ojo/MboIRf/u 6dlThDkaIN4= =0AlF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: doubleclick monitoring web browsing habits
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: "Deranged Mutant" <WlkngOwl(a)unix.asb.com> > Lynx running under Unix can find out who you are on the system by > checking your user id and the hostname. When I run lynx (2.3.7 beta) to <URL: http://www.anonymizer.com/cgi-bin/snoop.pl >, it says: Here's a sampling of the kind of information that a site can collect on you (please wait a moment): Your computer is a Unix box. Your Internet browser is Lynx. You are coming from jobe.shell.portal.com. You just visited the Anonymizer Home Page. No user name here. Also, when I follow a mailto: link it asks me to input the email address I want the mail to be from! So I don't think it is using local user name information, although certainly that is potentially available to it. Hal

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Party!
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The upshot of the attached missive is quite simple, really. RSVP to Julie Rackliffe, mailto://RACKLIFFE@tcm.org , before say, 2PM EDT on Monday, and tell her you're coming. Stragglers aren't frowned on, but we need to do a some capacity planning beforehand. Wanna make sure we print up enough drink tickets, alert the kitchen and the police, and all that. Get on your best bib and tucker (jackets and ties for men, "appropriate business attire" for women). Go to the Harvard Club, 1 Federal Street, Boston, on Thursday, June 20, 1996 from 5-8 pm. Collect your two complementary drink tickets. Thank the folks from OSF, who're sponsoring our first-ever DCSB networking event. Hit the table of complementary munchies for some necessary sustenance. Head to the bar, cash in one (or both) of your drink tickets and... .................schmooze. Easy, you say? Show us how easy. Be there. Aloha, Bob Hettinga Moderator, The Digital Commerce Society of Boston - - --- begin forwarded text Date: 14 Jun 96 07:43:06 EDT From: "Julie Rackliffe" <RACKLIFFE(a)tcm.org> Subject: Party! To: "dcsb" <dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu> Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Julie Rackliffe" <RACKLIFFE(a)tcm.org> Greetings, all and sundry! I am delighted to announce that my internet connection is now back on line and I can receive the MANY MANY RSVPs for next Thursday's party that you've been trying to get through and they've bounced back. SEND THEM ON! It's going to be a great time and a perfect opportunity to talk to the people you rarely get to talk to, to introduce friends to the dynamic and exciting world of DCSB and to nosh the best nosh, imbibe just the right amount and enjoy a beautiful kick off to a wonderful summer. Do Come! If you've tried to send me mail in the last two days, try again. If you sent it before that and got no error message, consider yourself golden. Thanks! I need responses TODAY!!! (Monday is the very latest and it's not good to toy with this volatile museum quality internet link. thanks :) ) Julie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from this list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu - - --- end forwarded text -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMcHQxvgyLN8bw6ZVAQG06QP/akD1VZumvzGMw552LeCk5YPPICsZt+EG wyHa69h6t3L3ud9Cla5tiRXHEKapu4S19udVyPFL37k5zPJJFfTQ/p8HGVzJgOYm Gu1hoJQNLdF244y5x2OuaFLE9RX1C2T0l7zqum+DLMNOqlZ/dHM1+ApKX+CQaAMi vjryIo7AsHU= =OlZI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "If they could 'just pass a few more laws', we would all be criminals." --Vinnie Moscaritolo The e$ Home Page: http://www.vmeng.com/rah/

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Re: PBS show
by Josh Sled 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Thu, 13 Jun 96 23:23 EDT, Blake Wehlage wrote: >Mac rule they have an awesome GUI (graphical user interface), easy of use it >way up there and they have bitchin' software. > >I know i will regret saying this but: > >The mac OS is 3 times better than Windows '95 Though I agree with you, and I think OS/2's WorkPlace Shell and Presentation Manager is about 10 times better than MacOS, this isn't the place for GUI or OS holy wars... ObCrypto: Incorporating crpyto into a GUI : strong crypto (RSA, 3DES) represented as strong locking devices (safe, vault, etc), weak crypto represented as weak devices (padlock, chain-link)... what do you think? Joshy

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Hackerpunks and C2
by Ecafe Mixmaster Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[ Although this post deals, for concreteness, with a specific mailing list, I hope that cypherpunks will appreciate how the problem alluded to points out a weakness in C2's current nym scheme, which is especially exploitable in the context of general nym based mailing lists being run via similar servers. ] The proposal for a Hackerpunks nym based mailing list is interesting, however, there are some concerns regarding the susceptibility of the list to traffic analysis. The contents of the list will clearly not be secret since anyone can create a C2 nym and then subscribe. For a given bag of messages, B, let L(B) denote the bag of the lengths of the messages in B. (A length, x, appearing n times in L(B) if and only if there are n messages of length x in B.) Let B_x denote the bag of messages that subscriber x receives. If for any two subscribers, a and b, L(B_a)=L(B_b), then someone cooperating with many ISPs could easily guess who was and was not subscribed to the list by seeing if a customer received a bag of messages, M, with L(M)=L(the bag of messages actually posted to the list). A solution to this might seem to be to append to each message posted to the list a pad varying randomly in length between each subscriber who was to receive a copy. However, if the list ownership ever feel into evil hands, the lengths of the pads could be chosen non-randomly, and thus provide very convincing evidence that someone receiving messages of the non-randomly chosen lengths was the owner of the given nym. There is also a concern that the owner of Hackerpunks could be discovered with a traffic analysis similar to the one used to determine list subscribers. This time, let P be the bag of messages (with padding deleted) posted to the list. If someone were to watch to see if some node on the Internet received a bag, I, with L(I)=L(P), then that person could guess that that node had a user who was the owner of the Hackerpunks mailing list. As before it would, of course, not help the owner of Hackerpunks to ask their subscribers to help weaken this attack by padding their messages to random lengths, since a malicious enemy could then determine a non-random sequence of messages lengths and send the corresponding message to owner of Hackerpunks for posting. This would only increase the likelihood that a node receiving those messages had a user who was the owner of the Hackerpunks mailing list. The solution to the two dilemmas seems to be to ask that the C2 re-mailing code be modified so as ensure that each messages is padded to a fixed size before encrypting and being sent through the reply block. On the other hand, this would give away information that anyone receiving messages of this fixed length was likely the owner of some C2 nym.

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