December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: NSA Lawyers Believe ITARs Would be Overturned if Tested in Court
by Arun Mehta 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 21:32 21/07/96 -0800, jim bell wrote: > Why aren't they (still) restricting >PC-type computers for export? Because, I imagine, it did not stop the clones from Taiwan, but severely hurt US computer manufacturers. Ultimately, this is the argument that will bring the US government kicking and screaming to its senses on the cryptography issue. Arun Mehta Phone +91-11-6841172, 6849103 amehta(a)cpsr.org http://www.cerfnet.com/~amehta/ finger amehta(a)cerfnet.com for public key

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San Diego Cypherpunks Physical Meeting
by Chris Claborne 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

San Diego Area CPUNKS symposium Thursday, August 1st, 1996 Invitation to all Cypherpunks to join the San Diego crowd at "The Mission Cafe & Coffee Shop" were I hope to get an update of Lance Cottrell's anonymous e-mail server, "mixmaster", exchange keys, and discuss other topical CP stuff. There's always the semi-topical discussions; Internet Service Provider in San Diego (providing, anonymous remailers and other privacy services), stelth communications, latest Cypherpunk goings-on, Internet happenings (like recent Federal court decision). Don't forget to bring your public key fingerprint. If you can figure out how to get it on the back of a business card, that would be cool. Place: The Mission Cafe & Coffee Shop 3795 Mission Bl in Mission Beach. 488-9060 Time:1800 Their Directions: 8 west to Mission Beach Ingram Exit Take west mission bay drive Go right on Mission Blvd. On the corner of San Jose and mission blvd. It is located between roller coaster and garnett. It's kind of 40s looking building... funky looking (their description, not mine) They serve stuff to eat, coffee stuff, and beer. See you there! New guy, bring your key fingerprint. Drop me a note if you plan to attend. 2 -- C -- ... __o .. -\<, Chris.Claborne(a)SanDiegoCA.NCR .Com ...(*)/(*). CI$: 76340.2422 http://bordeaux.sandiegoca.ncr.com/ PGP Pub Key fingerprint = 7E BF 38 3F 24 A7 D1 B0 54 44 96 AA 10 D0 5D 51 Avail on Pub Key server. Dreams. They're just screen savers for the brain.

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Schelling Points, Rights, and Game Theory--Part II
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

As promised in Part I, here is more on the application of Schelling points to the discussion of "rights" (property rights, rights of parents to tell their children what to do, etc.). We saw that Schelling points, as developed by Richard Schelling and others, are essentially "lower entropy" points. (In fact, I suspect there are formulations which involve so-called "maxiumum entropy" methods which would reproduce the theory of Schelling points; Cover and Thomas hint at this in their "Information Theory" book.) How does this apply to rights? Let us take as an example the contentious issue of "parent's rights," "children's rights," and societal issues involving schooling, child abuse, indoctrination into the body politic, citizenship, etc. * Viewpoint #1: Parents have absolute control of what their minor (under some age, usually 18 and/or resident in their homes) children read, watch on t.v., listen to on the radio, etc. They can control the comings and goings of their minor children, whom they may associate with, etc. * Viewpoint #2: Children, even minor children, have certain basic rights to access to information, access to t.v., radio, music, and books. Even access to crypto! * Viewpoint #3: The State and/or Community has an interest in the upbringing of a child and may take steps to direct the education and exposure to information of children, even in contravention of the wishes of parents. There are of course various shadings of these viewpoints. And examples can be found to defend each of these viewpoints, and also to attack them. (For example, what of the Christian Scientist who lets his 5-year-old die of an easily-curable disease because he believes injections are unGodly? What of the 10-year-old who is taught in public schools how to use condoms (or how to clean dirty needles), in contravention of the wishes of the parent?) Cutting to the chase, I submit that nearly all societies have "evolved" an approach that says: -- "While I may think you are raising your child in a way different from how I would raise him, I cannot take over the raising of your child, and I cannot be in your house/tent/cave/yurt at all times, or even at _any_times, so I will basically not interfere unless something really egregious happens." This is a "Schelling point" in the same way that territorial boundaries develop and are mutually adhered to, for the most part. The _costs_ of extending beyond the Schelling point boundaries is deemed to be too high, and the boundary persists. (Boundaries may jump around, as conditions change. And wars still exist to try to imbalance or move the boundaries. Nothing says the Schelling points are fixed in stone, only that the points are not completely random, and that there is a kind of order out of the chaos.) This is summarized in the most important of all Schelling points: "Live and let live." In the absence of a direct threat to one's self or family, and in the absence of other compelling evidence of a need to intervene, much energy and grief is saved by not trying to intervene in the lives of others. (I believe many of the themes we talk about, here and in libertarian circles, come together in this way. The view of John Rawls, that "justice" is that which an ensemble of people of people would pick, even if they did not what station in life they would be born into, closely fits with this Schelling point model.) ObCrypto Sidebar: The "fair" method for dividing a pie between two people is well-known: "You cut, I choose." This *game theory* result is central to many cryptographic protocols (though it may not always be apparent at first). And the protocol can be extended to 3 parties, and proabably to N. Research is ongoing on this, including Cypherpunk Robin Hanson's work at Caltech. My essay here is not a formal, footnoted proof of my claims, naturally. But I believe my claims to be basically correct, and to offer insights into the debate about "rights"...certainly a Schelling point or evolutionary game theory interpretation of what we call "rights" is superior to an appeal-to-God or "natural rights" interpretation. To get back to the issue of children's rights: I will not expend my energies and risk my life to forcibly gain entry to my neighbor's "castle" to make sure his 7-year-old son is able to view "Power Rangers" when his "rights" to do so are denied by his father. Nor will I pay for cops, Child Protective Services, and a powerful bureaucracy to enforce these "rights." Nor will I demand that this parent send his child to the church I deem most appropriate, nor the school I deem most appropriate, etc. That is, "practical and economic" issues lead me to the conclusion that parents basically can tell their minor children what to do, and that only truly egregious cases, such as clear cases of severe beatings, warrant the interference by the State. The same applies to cryptography. While there are dangers with any technology, including cryptographers, most societies have eventually evolved a system in which one is secure in one's home and papers. Orwell's vision of video cameras in all homes (actually, only of the elites, as the "proles" were unmonitored) has not come to pass, and even in nominally totalitarian states like the U.S.S.R. and P.R.C. there was considerable privacy in the home, at least after the worst of the terrors in the 1930-70 period. (I am not endorsing these states, naturally, just noting that even these states had to recognize the Schelling points of (mostly) not trying to send cops into private residences to enforce marginally-important rules.) Forceful advocates of children's rights, such as Mike Duvos, will no doubt find many points to use to argue for intervention on behalf of children. And in some case, I would even agree. But the basic principle, the "right" of a man to control his own castle, and the "right" not to have people nosing around inside his home, and the very real economic point that a parent pays for services and good consumed in his house, means that the balance of rights _must_ be in the direction of Viewpoint #1 above. Parents are free to raise their children as they see fit. They feed and clothe them, they talk to them about ideas and beliefs, they control the television set and the radio channel tuned to, and so forth. This is basic reality. To change this basic reality would require intervention from outside. And this is too high a price to pay for illusory gains. (I say "illusory" because I don't think intervention from outside would produce better-educated children, though it might produce more controllable citizen-units.) This essay has concentrated perhaps too much on "parent's vs. children's rights," but this is what sparked my desire to write an essay on Schelling points and why certain so-called rights appear to have evolved. I believe the game-theoretic and evolutionary approaches, mixed in with economics, offer the most solid grounding for the discussion of rights. Comments, as always, are welcome. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Question
by Mark O. Aldrich 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, 4 Sep 1989, Damien Lucifer wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 pjn(a)nworks.com wrote: > > > OK...A question for you all: > > <snip> Man, this is strange. I think C'punks just got time warped by Agents of the Evil Empire or somethin'. pjn wrote on 23 July 96, but Damien Lucifer replied to it on 4 Sep, 1989! Wow! Somebody better call Special Agent Mulder. <insert X files theme music here> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Just as the strength of the Internet is |Mark Aldrich | |chaos, so the strength of our liberty |GRCI INFOSEC Engineering | |depends upon the chaos and cacophony of |maldrich(a)grci.com | |the unfettered speech the First Amendment|MAldrich(a)dockmaster.ncsc.mil | |protects - District Judge Stewart Dalzell| | |_______________________________________________________________________| |The author is PGP Empowered. Public key at: finger maldrich(a)grci.com | | The opinions expressed herein are strictly those of the author | | and my employer gets no credit for them whatsoever. | -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Digital Watermarks for copy protection in recent Billbo
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:54 PM 7/24/96, Alex F wrote: >> >Yes, but concievably if (whoever would be incharge, FBI?) *could*, >> >under law do this, even if they are wrong. It is a lot harder to >> >prove that they intentionally harrassed *you* than it is for them to >> >say that they were following leads and show evidence. Yes, this may >> >> To go to trial, an indictment would be needed. How likely is this? > >The likelyness is irrelevant to the point. Possibility is relevant. >Probability is not. "Likeliness" is _always_ relevent when discussing law. I am not a lawyer, but I've virtually certain that "receiving stolen property" laws involve terms like "knowingly" and/or "conspiracy." That is, "scienter." While "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is certainly true in many cases, the law comprehends the reality that certain actions are not crimes if no knowledge of a criminal act was involved. (Sorry if this is not phrased more clearly.) Thus, the guy who buys a bicycle that later turns out to have been stolen, will usually lose the bicycle, but is not knowingly receiving stolen property and hence is guilty of no crime. And no DA will charge him; the courts and jails are already clogged up enough. Of course, if he _knew_ the bicycle was stolen (e.g., he "placed an order" to have one stolen, a market which actually exists in some places, usually for cars), then "scienter" has been met, and perhaps "conspiracy," and so prosecution is more likely. I maintain that this "wiggle factor" in the law is not something to get worried about ("But they _could_ arrest me for buying a book stolen 10 years ago! We've got to do something!) and is, in fact, essential in any justice system. There just is no "automated" or "formal" system, and probably/hopefully never will be. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Would Netscape take money for 'exported' copies?
by Arun Mehta 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 22:13 23/07/96 -0400, Anonymous Remail Service wrote: >As I have said before, European & other foreign users, who get the strong- >crypto version should pay Netscape what they owe Netscape, to keep the ITAR >as the issue, and not piracy. Yes, but could/would Netscape even take our money? Wouldn't that be complicity (IA obviously NAL)? I'd imagine they'd just return the money, and tell us to please destroy our copies of the software. Arun Mehta Phone +91-11-6841172, 6849103 amehta(a)cpsr.org http://www.cerfnet.com/~amehta/ finger amehta(a)cerfnet.com for public key

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Re: Parsing John Youn (Re: OPS_nuk)
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Jul 25, 1996 03:46:19, 'tcmay(a)got.net (Timothy C. May)' wrote: >P.S. John Young does an invaluable service in forwarding items and making them >available at his site, but I find parsing his text into something >understandable a real chore. Too bad when style gets in the way of substance, >unless, of course, ones aspires to Joycehood. Tim, pity the moot transcriber a-choring (spit). It's a grind (pus) forwarding other's fishwrap (buggers), hardly able to contain one's gibbering idiocy (pee) counterreaction to the new's gratuitous fatuity (dookie). Usually, though, one's bowel-rumblings (Bic lits) pass unnosed in the c'punk parfumerie.

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Re: Ross Anderson's Eternity service
by Arun Mehta 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 20:13 22/07/96 -0700, Hal wrote: >Sherry Mayo posted here a while back a reference to Ross Anderson's >Eternity service paper, <URL: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk:80/users/rja14/#Lib >. Got that far, but could not download the Eternity service paper itself. Something about only accepting connections from certain sites. Would someone kind-hearted enough mail me a copy? Arun Mehta Phone +91-11-6841172, 6849103 amehta(a)cpsr.org http://www.cerfnet.com/~amehta/ finger amehta(a)cerfnet.com for public key

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Re: Netscape
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:39 PM 7/24/96 -0700, Tom Weinstein wrote: >The Deviant wrote: >> >> I would have suggested even being as nice as "We'll do the same as MIT >> does with PGP's distrobution, or RSA does with RSAREF (just so you'll >> know, RSA's FTP basicly has a readme file that says "the files in >> subdir of a dir thats -r+x to you, so if you're a citizen go to >> dist/usaRANDOM_NUMBER_HERE", thats it). Then make them explain why >> Netscape should be any different. > >MIT reportedly has a letter stating that their systems is okay. The >state department wouldn't give us such a letter because they were >"currently reevaluating their guidelines", or some such thing. We >convinced them to give us temporary permission for this system until >they had finalized their new policy. That still doesn't make since. First, there were laws. And we had to obey them. Then, they added ITAR. And they want us to obey it. Finally, it seems, they're giving us "guidelines." Not law, Not ITAR. Next it's gonna be their their fondest desires, their preferences,and finally their whims. What's wrong with this picture? Do I detect an ass-kissing contest? You should have told them that if they're "evaluating their guidelines" that means that NO future modifications to those guidelines is binding on you, since it is not part of ITAR and is CERTAINLY not part of the law. You should have memorialized the contact with a lawyer's letter, and promptly posted the new version of your software with whatever version of the precautions (MIT, RSA, or?) you felt most happy with. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Boobytraps and the American Legal System
by Chris Adams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 24 Jul 96 01:21:34 -0800, dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com wrote: >I think Tim May is growing senile... This is new? <g> >> (Later examples were to be even worse. For example, the burglar who climbed >> on a roof and stepped through a skylight. He sued, and won. I guess the >> owner of the property was obligated to install night lights so burglars >> could see their way, and to generally make his property more >> "burglar-friendly." > >Actually, he fell through the roof of a school he was trying to burgalize. > >In a similar incident a burglar broke into a house that was being treated >for pests (i.e., was full of toxic fumes). He died; his family sued the >owners and won. > >Maybe someone can post a reference to these two cases. I recall that both >happened in New York, but I could be wrong. I remember hearing about a case on this end of the continent (west coast) that involved a store that had been robbed many times. The owner noticed that most burglars came through the skylight, so he electrified it. Not much of a charge, just something like 12 volts - enough to keep someones hands off of it... However, a klutzy burglar managed to fall into the skylight and get stuck. His partner deserted him. Over the course of several hours, he died... *ouch* Needless to say, his next-of-kin sued and won. The guy lost his store. Another one I liked: in (I believe) Pennsylvania, a drunk peed on an electrified third rail. His next of kin sued the trolley company and won... A man tried to commit suicide in Chicago by jumping onto an El track. He was only crippled, so he sued and won! // Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> - Webpages for sale! Se habla JavaScript! // Automatically receive my resume or PGPKEY by sending email with a subject // of 'send PGPKEY' or 'send resume'. Capitalization counts so be careful!

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Brute-forcing DES
by trollins＠interactive.visa.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Anyone have a FPGA chip PCI board layout that they would like to share. Having seen the paper "Minimal Key Lengths for Symmetric Ciphers to Provide Adequate Commercial Security", the FPGA chip seems like a perfect addition to my pc. Count me in... Thanks, -tom > Any one up for a distributed brute force attack on single DES? My > back-of-the-envelope calculations and guesstimates put this on the > hairy edge of doability (the critical factor is how many machines can > be recruited - a non-trivial cash prize would help). -- Tom Rollins <trollins(a)interactive.visa.com>

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Shell buys key escrow system from Trusted Info. Systems
by Will Rodger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Administration officials didn't return calls for comment, but it's clear that the Clinton-Gore team have their first "testbed" for trying out key recovery, or key escrow, proposals. Steven Walker, president of Glenwood, Md.'s Trusted Information Systems Inc., told Inter@ctive Week late last week that TIS will supply his companys Gauntlet Firewall technology, complete with commercial key escrow capabilities, to an a large multinational with headquarters outside the United States. The multinational company will self-escrow, that is handle all encryption keys itself, in cooperation with the British government, sources close to the deal said. Walker declined to name the company, but several Washington-based sources confirmed the buyer is Royal Dutch Shell. The deal represent the first time that a foreign buyer has purchased a US key escrow product without escrowing keys in the US. Indeed, TIS has sold only one other system for export abroad, one which involved communications between the US and the UK with US key escrow. Walker, widely credited with devising the controversial commerical key escrow system now being promoted by the current administration, claimed "there really is an important issue here in finding a balance between the interest of government and those of industry. A policy that says anyone who wants to export strong encryption as long as there is key recovery is an important development." The success of the deal and others like it could figure heavily in the Clinton administration's ability to sell it its latest proposals on commercial key escrow; a recent report from the National Research Council recently warned that such efforts were unproven and required serious examiniation before they could be deployed. Long-time critics of the proposal have, in turn, leveled the same criticisms. Jim Bidzos, President of RSA Data Security Inc. and a long-time foe of administration policy said he doubted the market would rush to purchase products like Trusted Information Systems, but said he was slightly more hopeful for a resolution to the controversy than he had been previously. "Ive said all along that user key escrow is the only thing that makes sense," Bidzos said. Users who hold their own keys "can comply with any regulation in the world - if you want to give your keys to France or whoever you can thats your business. If it's good enough for the CIO, it's good enough for the CIA." Royal Dutch Shell officials said security considerations forbade confirming a sale had been made, but freely admitted to having had talks with TIS. The companys interest key escrow, computer security head Nick Mansfield said, lay principally in getting access to records after keys had been lost, stolen or otherwise disabled. The Gauntlet firewall, nonetheless, encrypts and decrypts messages as they arrive; it does not store messages in encrypted form. "To us its not a matter of going along with key escrow, its a matter of doing business," Mansfield said. ********* A shorter, slightly less jargon-laden version of this story appeared in the 7/22 issue o fInter@ctive Week. An archived copy should be on our site (http://www.zdnet.com/intweek) by week's end. Will Rodger Washington Bureau Chief Inter@ctive Week -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMfa2sUcByjT5n+LZAQE4nAf7BA5X2f3LX1KQXXygkYtaGWc6qMgDEFWA cYlQNtVw+KS+h8hNRmpZ4KWaUJS1iwHPfwaS0XqI40gVGyZE2mYBmF6RybAkLKKV zGXEyIlAVxKOz2FsRQ35Tg1VV5Y8NaL+YxK3uUcutLHBK/Vxq7iLcnaqRn2klfYM 6ImSKecHMU2NzaB8JGIIJbAuG7NpGmLj/O4BEP3ccoNeA3NQ1fIAujMyL12gbdPF TUZVUOLsj5eHG1dwqRmSUdsNHcwYoQ6WFX2waIdot0Ia/nph/ERpliVjkccIsKsz q+qDeH0fz3ZoENS/zqUy9ilHwLcAdMoiyQzlm06dZBRf+O9rqpDjKA== =RJjm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Parsing John Youn (Re: OPS_nuk)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:30 PM 7/24/96, John Young wrote: > The WSJ Page Ones a loser's game about the CIA's role in > promoting Japanese pachinko cards to halt the surreptitious > funneling of betting cash to the construction of a North > Korean nuclear plant. And the op's nuking by the Kobe quake > looting of card-reading mechanisms, cracking encryption > codes, and counterfeiting not-so-smart cards for counter- > tipping the house fix. Mondex, watcher bleedin arse. Huh? (If anyone has a decryption key for this, please send it to me.) --Tim P.S. John Young does an invaluable service in forwarding items and making them available at his site, but I find parsing his text into something understandable a real chore. Too bad when style gets in the way of substance, unless, of course, ones aspires to Joycehood. Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Distributed DES crack
by talon57＠well.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Matt Blaze scribes: >My estimate is that an FPGA-based machine that can do a single DES >key every four months (eight months to exhaust the whole keyspace) >could be built with off-the-shelf stuff for comfortably under $50k >(plus labor, plus software development costs). A prototype board >should cost under $1000 and will help prove the concept and get a >more accurate cost estimate. I expect to build such a prototype >machine myself, and, if it works as I expect, maybe the whole >thing. >-matt If the price is reasonable, I for one would be willing to donate the bucks for a FPGA chip or two to see this get built: -------------------- | Chip donated by | | talon57(a)well.com | -------------------- The very existance of this device in the real world would make our point better than anything I've yet heard. Imagine being at a hearing and having the physical device sitting there before the judges...... Brian

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Re: Game Theory and its Relevance to Cypherpunks
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:57 PM 7/20/96 -0700, you wrote: > >Game theory is terribly important to Cypherpunks. Just to make a plug for my thesis, people can find some of this discussed at: http://far.mit.edu/~reagle/commerce/thesis/thesis.html . The SanteFe Inst. references might be of particular interest with respect to decentalized economies and such. _______________________ Regards, There is no greater sorrow than to recall a time of happiness in misery. -Dante Joseph Reagle http://rpcp.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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Re: E-Cash promotion idea
by LKWendel＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 96-07-24 11:30:07 EDT, paul(a)ljl.com (Paul Robichaux) writes: << The Visa stored-value cards now in Atlanta don't do this, but as a simplifying measure most vendors in the Olympic Village (and many within the downtown venue ring) have rounded prices to the nearest US$. The precedent's been set. >> I'm confused. Why can't the Visa Stroed Value program accept exact amount on the card? And if the card runs out of value and is not reloadable, why not just supplement the difference with cash? Regards, Lisa Kops-Wendel

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Pro-Crypto Fireworks
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Fireworks expected at Thursday encryption hearing Washington, July 24 (Reuter) -- After sailing through two quiet subcommittee hearings, a bill to relax restrictions on computer encoding faces a much choppier ride before the full Senate Commerce Committee on Thursday. The committee will hear from some of the Clinton administration's big guns on crime and national security, including FBI Director Louis Freeh and William Crowell, deputy director of the National Security Agency. [Snip] Netscape's James Barksdale, who entranced senators at a June 12 subcommittee hearing, will return Thursday to again make the case for relaxing export restrictions. [Snip] Others expected to testify Thursday include William Reinsch, undersecretary for the Bureau of Export Administration at the Commerce Department; Tandem Computers Inc. President Roel Pieper; and Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform. The hearing will be broadcast live over the Internet, starting at about 9:15 a.m. EDT using Progressive Network's Real Audio software. The technique was first used at a June 26 subcommittee hearing on the encryption bill. Computer users anywhere in the world with sound capability can tune in at http://www.hotwired.com/wiredside. -----

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My Cypherpunk Patriotism
by Joey Grasty 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Y'all: I received the following fan mail today, in regards to my announcement of the WinSock Remailer. In my announcement, I noted that I have blocked the Church of Scientology discussion groups alt.religion.scientology and alt.clearing.technology. The author shall remain anonymous: > Please make your blocking configurable in a text file that > the remailer reads at startup time. Other people who install > your remailer may not feel the need to surrender to > the Church of Scientology's legal terrorism the way you have. Anyone who has checked my webpage (http://www.c2.net/~winsock/) knows that the blocking lists are entirely up to the user. Let me state clearly that I'm just not interested in the Church of Scientology, its supporters or detractors. My interest is in writing remailers and seeing that the remailers are widely distributed. If I involve myself in this COS mess, then I'm distracting myself from my mission, which is writing remailers. Fighting "wars" is for the young and strong. Think of me as a weapons designer. I build the weapons, someone else fights the wars. Freedom needs weapons designers and warriors. That is my version of "Cypherpunk Patriotism". I offered my detractor a copy of the remailer so that he can run his own remailer and fight his war with COS. Let's see if he puts up or shuts up. My guess is the latter. Regards, -- Joey Grasty jgrasty(a)gate.net [home -- encryption, privacy, RKBA and other hopeless causes] jgrasty(a)pts.mot.com [work -- designing pagers] "Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin." -- John Von Neumann PGP = A7 CC 31 E4 7E A3 36 13 93 F4 C9 06 89 51 F5 A7

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Keyserver at jpunix.com is retiring
by John A. Perry 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The PGP public keyserver at jpunix.com has developed a stability problem over the past week or two that I can't seem to account for. The keyserver stops in the middle of a run and leaves the lock file so all incoming key requests get backed up until I notice it and manually fix it. Having to continually monitor the keyserver has become burdensome and is not doing anyone any good. I've always been happy to provide the keyserver as a public service to the PGP users community but, the keyserver is not getting any better no matter what I do to try and fix it. There are no errors generated and no log entries to point me to what the problem is. With this in mind, I have decided to retire the keyserver at jpunix.com effective 07/27/96 sometime in the AM Central Standard Time. If you have any applications that point to this server, I would ask that you point your application to one of the other servers or make some arrangement to use a different server. It's been an honor and a pleasure to provide this service and I apologize in advance for any inconvenience this may cause. John Perry - perry(a)alpha.jpunix.com - PGP-encrypted e-mail welcome! WWW - http://www.jpunix.com PGP 2.62 key for perry(a)jpunix.com is on the keyservers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMfacNFOTpEThrthvAQGl0AQAjcBWAe4beWMCZ6yyeoxkgPqjm3hyVmgb 7DeX8/MQ8tpOG+pMzalslBfWRtOaOk9mU/q2N82gEIq6/QcEvY8yUF105+87k6h3 U7mjBnbSjIAGOHBBARo2kzzmfxqVDCoo9SW+idm94HBNeRsIeFFGndII2YHivyP7 milYetDY0b8= =OkkS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Keyserver at jpunix.com is retiring
by John Perry 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The PGP public keyserver at jpunix.com has developed a stability problem over the past week or two that I can't seem to account for. The keyserver stops in the middle of a run and leaves the lock file so all incoming key requests get backed up until I notice it and manually fix it. Having to continually monitor the keyserver has become burdensome and is not doing anyone any good. I've always been happy to provide the keyserver as a public service to the PGP users community but, the keyserver is not getting any better no matter what I do to try and fix it. There are no errors generated and no log entries to point me to what the problem is. With this in mind, I have decided to retire the keyserver at jpunix.com effective 07/27/96 sometime in the AM Central Standard Time. If you have any applications that point to this server, I would ask that you point your application to one of the other servers or make some arrangement to use a different server. It's been an honor and a pleasure to provide this service and I apologize in advance for any inconvenience this may cause. John Perry - perry(a)alpha.jpunix.com - PGP-encrypted e-mail welcome! WWW - http://www.jpunix.com PGP 2.62 key for perry(a)jpunix.com is on the keyservers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMfacNFOTpEThrthvAQGl0AQAjcBWAe4beWMCZ6yyeoxkgPqjm3hyVmgb 7DeX8/MQ8tpOG+pMzalslBfWRtOaOk9mU/q2N82gEIq6/QcEvY8yUF105+87k6h3 U7mjBnbSjIAGOHBBARo2kzzmfxqVDCoo9SW+idm94HBNeRsIeFFGndII2YHivyP7 milYetDY0b8= =OkkS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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RE: Noise: Re: Responding to Pre-dawn Unannounced Ninja Raids
by Bill Olson (EDP) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Alan Horowitz writes: > >Phil, > >are you saying that you're a better businessman than Rush Limbaugh? > >Can we see some 1040's, please? Rush Limbagh is a big fat *RICH* idiot. >

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Data Sources for DES Breaking
by mpd＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Given that we might embark upon this public demonstration of the fragility of single DES, what should we use for test data? If a lone Cypherpunk simply encrypts a file with DES-ECB, hides the key in a drawer, and publishes the cyphertext and plaintext for use in a distributed cracking effort, there will of course be the suggestion that the exercise was rigged, and any public policy implications will be lost in the endless "Was So/Was Not" quibbling which will undoubtedly take place after the crack is complete. Given that most of the people currently singing the praises of single DES live in the banking industry, which has so far resisted all reasonable suggestions that it is time for them to move to something stronger, it would seem almost obvious that this crack should be done on some form of live financial data, such as might be obtained if one were to capture bits passing over publicly accessible phone lines between various financial institutions, ATM machines, and centralized computer facilities. The ideal data would be replete with prepended fixed headers which could be used as a wedge for a known plaintext attack, and should be sufficiently sensitive that breaking it will result in scandalous tabloid headlines and numerous opportunities for Cypherpunks to promote their policy agenda in the media. DES is, after all, a prime example of the type of encryption one gets when the government, rather than the brightest minds in the private sector, are in charge of determining National Crypto Policy and mandating the use of "approved" techniques. I would suggest we obtain the test data for this exercise as soon as possible, and widely disseminate it on the Net. There is no need to wait until we have distributed cracking software ready to go before doing this, and having the actual data to play with while munging the code together may lead to some new insights as to efficient ways to attack the problem. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd(a)netcom.com $ via Finger. $

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Re: When books are outlawed
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:07 PM 7/24/96 -0400, you wrote: > ><< On Our Backs magazine>> > >That's "Off Our Backs". Very much at the forefront of the >PC-gestapo-thought-police trend. > >Also has a _fabulous_ running comic strip about the reality of lesbian >relationships. "Dykes to watch out For", if my memory serves me well. Off Our Backs is a PC lesbian magazine. "On Our Backs" is an S&M Lesbian magazine edited by Suzie Bright. It is not anything resembling PC. (Ms. Bright does not have a nice oppinion of Dwarkin and her fellow travelers, to put it mildly.) ObOff-Topic: If you ever get the chance to hear Suzie Bright speak on one of her tours, by all means go. It is well worth the time! --- Alan Olsen -- alano(a)teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ "We had to destroy the Internet in order to save it." - Sen. Exon "Microsoft -- Nothing but NT promises."

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Re: Digital Watermarks (long, getting off-topic)
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:26 AM 7/24/96 -0800, jim bell wrote: >Isn't it odd that when music is sold, CD's are MORE expensive than cassette >tapes, even though you _know_ that the manufacturing cost of CD's is less? CDs sell for more because buyers decided that they wanted a wider range of titles with shallower sales (hence higher unit costs) rather than a narrower range of titles with lower sales prices. The number of CD titles available is far greater (in general distribution) than the number of vinyl titles that were available during vinyl's peak year. This greater availability of short run pressings raises average unit sales costs justifying the higher prices. Had the market decided (when physical production costs fell) that it was satisfied with a Top-40 CD stock, average CD prices would have fallen to vinyl levels. >Another oddity: The price for a blank, standard-quality videocassette is >about the same as that of a blank, standard-quality audio cassette tape, >despite the fact that the volume of tape included in the former is probably >about a factor of 10 higher. Materials cost is a minor part of total cost. In both cases, the cost of production is a small part of the cost of goods sold. Almost all of that cost is the cost of marketing (as with all mass-market products in a modern capitalist economy. DCF "The only adequate description of the Universe is the Universe itself. The only fair price of an item is the market price. Neither the Universe nor the Market can be adequately duplicated in the head of a Congresscritter."

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FW: Schelling Points, Rights, and Game Theory--Part II
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: tcmay(a)got.net >...certainly a Schelling point or evolutionary game >theory interpretation of what we call "rights" is superior to an appeal-to-God or "natural rights" interpretation. ........................................................................ ................. So there is the "game theory" interpretation of "rights" as would be understood by an individual within a group of 2 or more, or a "society" of many individuals, and then there is the interpretation of how anyone might interpret the concept even if they were not a member of any society but lived totally alone in the wilderness? I don't know why these would be categorized as being part of a "game" - evolutionary or otherwise. A game is something that is evaluated somewhat outside the context of our regular life - a diversion, an accessory, even if it also can be taken seriously or if it can become a career for some people. It is not given the same significance as other practical pursuits like medicine or engineering, which are intended to have definite, practical, beneficial results. Any person normally posseses some ability to determine the propriety to themselves of certain things in existence: they have some measure of ability to make judgements over what is "right" or "wrong" for humankind similar to themselves. Most people develop some sensitivity to the difference between that which is destructive to the goals & values of living things versus that which is supportive of them; most everyone is expected to improve the ability to think about these things as they grow up, even if they don't hold formal arguments with anyone else about it. But people's minds work on overtime and just because they can make judgements, they therefore do make judgements, and furthermore they intend that everyone else should accept these same conclusions - they go into "global mode", expecting that their perspective will be incontestably valid over all. But I wouldn't think that they imagine themselves to be playing a game. I think they're quite serious about it, and "rightly" so, as the consequences of these decisions have major effects upon the quality of their life and happiness. I think that to think of these concepts in terms of game theory is to miss the place of significance which these decisions have in the life of conscious, self-determining beings like ourselves; that it doesn't do justice to the need to achieve correspondence with the facts of life & molecular physics. Or, what's the Prize for these Olympics (and who cares)? .. Blanc ~ Blanc

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violating ITAR
by Arun Mehta 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 21:43 21/07/96 -0500, snow wrote: > > Put up enough money to defend me and tell me how I can get arrested. > > I'm not doing a lot at the moment, and I wouldn't mind getting my 15 >minutes of fame at this point. I could spare the time too. Maybe you (and whoever else volunteers) could DCC me some software that violates ITAR via mIRC: We announce that this is going to happen, which channel and when, have a virtual party for the condemned person(s), during which we first openly discuss what we are going to do... I doubt they'll want to take me to court in India, but if they do, I know lawyers who would defend me for free. Arun Mehta Phone +91-11-6841172, 6849103 amehta(a)cpsr.org http://www.cerfnet.com/~amehta/ finger amehta(a)cerfnet.com for public key

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Re: Distributed DES crack
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:34 PM 7/24/96 +0200, Remo Pini wrote: >By the way, using FPGA's (as suggested earlier) at around 100 MHz should be >extremely fast (after all, on one 100000 Gate FPGA, one should be able to >do lot of parallel things at one clock cycle -> test several keys at >once...). >I estimate, that at reasonable cost (lets say, <$500) you should be able to >put enough FPGAs on a board to do enough keys in parallel to equal 1 key >per cycle, i.e. 1e8 keys/sec. I'm skeptical of any attempt to use general-purpose computers to crack DES. For example, if you could get a Pentium-class system to try 100,000 keys per second, that's about 200 million machine hours for a total keyspace search. Even if the power consumption of the hardware was the only cost, and assuming you could get the consumption of an individual machine down to 100 watts, that's 20 million kilowatt-hours of electricity, or somewhere around $1.5 million at 7.5 cents per kwh. That's not particularly promising. However, assuming DES can be implemented by a number of 64-bit wide pipelined stages within a single chip, it should be possible to have that chip do a single key per clock cycle, perhaps at about 50 megahertz. (This would probably be trivial on a full-custom chip. Whether it could be done straightforwardly on a hard-wired gate array, or a FPGA, I don't know.) Tiled on a pc board perhaps 10 by 10, it would check 5 billion keys per second. This works out to 167 days to search the entire keyspace. Electricity consumption is almost ignorable: Even if that 100-processor board consumed 1 kilowatt, that's still only 4000 kilowatt-hours, or $280 at 7.5 c/Kwh. The reason for this enormous difference (about 5000 to one) is mostly due to the fact that general-purpose computers are very inefficient at solving this problem, but also partly because a typcal Pentium-class computer keeps a large amount of circuitry powered up all the time, and not just the portion needed to solve a CPU-bound task. Obviously, costs other than electricity are the dominant factor with a specialized-hardware approach. But the only attraction of the farmed-out (borrowed) general-purpose CPU approach is the fact that the computers are already paid for, and the elctricity will be paid for by somebody else. Once the average participant realizes how wasteful this solution is, he will likely balk. It would be far more economical to take 10% of that electricity cost (possibly in the form of donations), maybe around $150,000, and build the custom hardware that could be used again and again. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: A Global Village, or the future of porn on the net
by Arun Mehta 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:00 24/07/96 +0000, Alex F wrote: > >why is it that Bill(ary) signed an unconstitutional law? I >am referring to the CDA and the telephony bill. ... arguments that I wholeheartedly support deleted.. >Anyway, getting off-topic again. I'll be quiet now :) Let me see if I can bring this back on track. We have some interesting developments that could converge: 1) Legally, the Internet is more or less in the clear as far as indecency is concerned. The moralists will rally again and put through a bill that doesn't so blatantly violate the constitution, but for the time being we're OK. 2) Porn is very, very popular. As a consultant, I often use Netscape from the offices of my clients, and invariably take a peek at the bookmarks. Guess what is pointed to more than anything else. By making a hullaballoo about porn on the net, its enemies may have shot themselves in the foot: it will attract people rather than repel. 3) Porn on the net by and large isn't all that great, so if there is a risk, it is that people might be bored. What you mostly have are stills of nudes on the web and Usenet postings of indifferent quality. 4) the web is changing from static to dynamic through Java and the like. VRML in fact adds a 3-D element. Stir, add some spicy curry, and see if you get: Java classes for males and females corresponding to VRML objects. The class methods might include kissing, hugging, spanking, restraining... A female object might be initialized with Hillary Clinton's face, Evangelista's body... Anyone could now write a script which you could view enacted on your screen, or interact with one another as in MUDs. Why, someone might write a translator that takes a story off alt.sex.whatever and produces an appropriate script. People would only need to download the software and appropriate objects once, then receive emscripts which could be run in total privacy. People should we willing to pay small amounts for use of the classes and objects, as well as for the scripts. Of course, it would only work in our prudish societies if the transactions were totally anonymous. If Digicash payment systems were built-in, that might be a reason for people to start adopting eCash. Of course, this opens up a whole can of worms. For instance, given the violence of many pornographic stories on Usenet, it won't be long before famous personalities routinely get violated in cyberspace. Talk about copyright: do you have the right to prevent someone from doing this to you? I unfortunately lack the bandwidth to find out the extent to which porn on the net is already moving in this direction. However, if you have pointers, I'll go *find* the bandwidth! Where on the net do people discuss such matters? Arun Mehta Phone +91-11-6841172, 6849103 amehta(a)cpsr.org http://www.cerfnet.com/~amehta/ finger amehta(a)cerfnet.com for public key

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RE: Brute Force DES
by Chris Adams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 24 Jul 96 06:19:10 -0800, mattt(a)microsoft.com wrote: >To whittle this down to a 40-bit workload, we'd have to save 2^36 >entries* 2^8 bytes/entry = 2^39 Bytes = 512 Gig. Yes, admittedly large. Can you say RAID? I've had an idea for something similar to this, where you have a VERY large database btreed using the file system and subdirectories. This type of thing would REALLY lend itself to Unix, as we could just mount separate drives as branches of the tree. Now, enable NFS and things get interesting... >What's the cheapest form of storage, magtape? How much can you store on >magtape? The entries can be sorted so that lookup doesn't take long even >when you have to mount tapes. Hmmmm... Don't they have some of those 8mm tapes that go to 4-8GM per tape? Anyone have access to one? // Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> - Webpages for sale! Se habla JavaScript! // Automatically receive my resume or PGPKEY by sending email with a subject // of 'send PGPKEY' or 'send resume'. Capitalization counts so be careful!

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Open Letter to the Net from Sens. Burns, Pressler & Ashcroft
by Conrad_Burns＠burns.senate.gov 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

AN OPEN INVITATION TO THE INTERNET COMMUNITY FROM MEMBERS OF THE SENATE COMMERCE COMMITTEE July 23, 1996 This week, the Senate Commerce Committee will take a historic step forward toward enhancing citizens participation in the democratic process via the Internet. On Thursday July 25 the Committee's hearing on S. 1726, the "Pro-CODE" Act of 1996 will be cybercast live on the Internet. As many of you are well aware, the debate over US encryption policy is of vital importance to the future development of the Internet and the privacy of all Americans. We are writing to invite you to join us in this unique event. And to help the Committee better understand your concerns about privacy and security on the Internet, we are inviting you to submit your thoughts for the hearing record via the World Wide Web and to discuss the issues with us and members of our staff live online during the hearing. Information on how you can join the cybercast, submit your thoughts for the record, and participate in an online discussion with encryption experts, members of the committee, and other concerned individuals are available at: http://www.crypto.com/hearing-cybercast/ Witnesses scheduled to testify at Thursday's hearing include: * Louis Freeh, FBI Director * William Reinsch, Undersecretary, Bureau of Export Administration, Dept. of Commerce * William P. Crowell, Deputy Director, NSA * James Barksdale, CEO Netscape Communications Corporation * Grover Norquist, Director, Americans for Tax Reform * Roel Pieper, Pres/CEO Tandem Computer * Ambassador Michael Skol The Cybercast, which is being coordinated by the Center for Democracy and Technology, Voters Telecommunications Watch, HotWired, DIGEX, and Mike Rawson of Senator Burns' office, has four components. These are: 1. LIVE AUDIO CYBERCAST: The audio portion of the hearing will be cybercast live online in real-time. Anyone with RealAudio installed on their computers (available free at http://www.realaudio.com/) will be able to listen in on the hearing. Audio transcripts will also be archived online at http://www.crypto.com/events/072596/ after the hearing. 2. REAL-TIME PICTURES: Pictures from the hearing will also be uploaded to the World Wide Web in real time throughout the hearing. 3. SIMULTANEOUS ONLINE DISCUSSION FORUM: Netizens can also join a live discussion forum where encryption experts and Commerce Committee staff while they listen to the audio portion of the hearing. This provides an opportunity to discuss the issues raised by the testimony in real time with knowledgeable experts and Congressional staff. Several members of the Commerce Committee may also join the discussion periodically (TBA). 4. TESTIMONY FOR THE RECORD: Netizens can also submit their thoughts on the legislation for the record via the World Wide Web. Details are posted at the http://www.crypto.com/events/072596/. Finally, detailed background information on the encryption debate can be found at the following World Wide Web sites: Senator Conrad Burns (R-MT) - http://www.senate.gov/~burns/ Senator Larry Pressler (R-SD) -http://www.senate.gov/~pressler/ Senator John Ashcroft (R-MO) -http://www.senate.gov/~ashcroft/ Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) - http://www.senate.gov/~leahy/ The Encryption Policy Resource Page - http://www.crypto.com/ The Internet Privacy Coalition - http://www.privacy.org/ipc Your thoughts and comments on this issue are extremely helpful to us as we continue to push for passage of legislation to enhance privacy and security on the Internet. We hope you will join us on Thursday for this important experiment in the future of democracy. Sincerely, Sen. Conrad Burns Sen. Larry Pressler Sen. John Ashcroft

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Exportable Netscape with strong crypto...
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

An alternative to exporting a strong Netscape might be to build a browser outside the USA with a strong SSL. Mosaic source can be licensed, correct? What's to stop a non-US company from licensing it and modifying it to have strong crypto, then making that version freely available as shareware, or perhaps with non-crypto goodies locked out in the free version? Or even selling it commercially with strong crypto? Rob --- No-frills sig. Befriend my mail filter by sending a message with the subject "send help" Key-ID: 5D3F2E99 1996/04/22 wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com (root@magneto) AB1F4831 1993/05/10 Deranged Mutant <wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com> Send a message with the subject "send pgp-key" for a copy of my key.

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FW: Distributed DES crack
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- From: Remo Pini[SMTP:rp@rpini.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 1996 7:34 AM To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: Distributed DES crack -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Wed Jul 24 16:31:44 1996 Has anyone thought about TI or Motorolas DSP-Eval-Boards (at 99$ a piece at 40 MHz with optimized assembler they might easily outrun a PPro200) Don't look at me that way, I know only little about DSP-Programming. >>> DSP's are optimized for add/multiply ... and you get their memory-access pipelining; but I am not too sure how they'd do on a DES algo. I wouldn't get too excited.

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Re: Digital Watermarks (long, getting off-topic)
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:23 PM 7/24/96 -0400, Duncan Frissell wrote: >At 10:26 AM 7/24/96 -0800, jim bell wrote: > >>Isn't it odd that when music is sold, CD's are MORE expensive than cassette >>tapes, even though you _know_ that the manufacturing cost of CD's is less? > >CDs sell for more because buyers decided that they wanted a wider range of >titles with shallower sales (hence higher unit costs) rather than a narrower >range of titles with lower sales prices. The number of CD titles available >is far greater (in general distribution) than the number of vinyl titles >that were available during vinyl's peak year. This greater availability of >short run pressings raises average unit sales costs justifying the higher >prices. Had the market decided (when physical production costs fell) that >it was satisfied with a Top-40 CD stock, average CD prices would have fallen >to vinyl levels. I'm afraid that quantitatively, this is utter nonsense. A relevant data point is the fact that for about $1000, anybody can have 1000 copies of a custom CDROM manufactured. That, by music industry standards, is an EXCEEDINGLY low production run. The difference in cost between such a CD, and one made in quantities of 100K to 1 million can't possibly exceed 90 cents or so. While the early days of CD's were marked by lack of capacity, it is obvious that if the pressing plants are now accepting orders for pressing runs of 1K or less, there is plenty of capacity left in the industry. The extra manufacturing cost for those extra titles certainly can't be found in the cost of production. So how about record stores? Are you suggesting that the fact that there are "too many titles" are somehow increasing costs so much that $8 vinyl turned into $13.95 CD's? But how can this be? CD's are physically smaller than vinyl records. Cheaper to transport and store, and cheaper to display. And they are certainly not more expensive to advertise! No, the number of titles available has essentially NOTHING to do with the price. I'm truly astonished that you would think this to be true. >>Another oddity: The price for a blank, standard-quality videocassette is >>about the same as that of a blank, standard-quality audio cassette tape, >>despite the fact that the volume of tape included in the former is probably >>about a factor of 10 higher. > >Materials cost is a minor part of total cost. > >In both cases, the cost of production is a small part of the cost of goods >sold. Almost all of that cost is the cost of marketing (as with all >mass-market products in a modern capitalist economy. Then why is it more expensive to market a cassette audio tape, over a videocassette?!? Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: When books are outlawed
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:07 PM 7/24/96 -0400, Alan Horowitz wrote: > ><< On Our Backs magazine>> > >That's "Off Our Backs". Very much at the forefront of the >PC-gestapo-thought-police trend. Both are (or were) magazines, "On Our Backs" appearing some years after "Off" and appealing to a different (but still lesbian) market segment. -- Greg Broiles |"Post-rotational nystagmus was the subject of gbroiles(a)netbox.com |an in-court demonstration by the People http://www.io.com/~gbroiles |wherein Sgt Page was spun around by Sgt |Studdard." People v. Quinn 580 NYS2d 818,825.

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Re: [Noise] Re: <rant> Re: Devil's Bargain
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> I don't know if it was terrorist activity, I was just annoyed at >the extensive every 15 minutes even tho' there is nothing new to say I >gotta get my mug and my voice on the ether coverage. It's also yet another excuse for the government to say "Be Afraid! Be Very Afraid! We're Here To Help You" - Clinton's first speech after the event had him bringing up terrorism and making sure everyone knew that even though there was as yet no evidence that it wasn't an accident, he was tough on terrorism and he'd be making sure we have more controls on the population to protect us from terrorists. I'm surprised I haven't heard Kallstrom calling for radically increased wiretapping yet or Freeh calling for bans on encryption like he did after OKCity. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # http://www.idiom.com/~wcs # Confuse Authority!

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Re: Game Theory and its Relevance to Cypherpunks
by James A. Donald 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:21 AM 7/21/96 -0700, Llywarch Hen wrote: > What Timothy May espouses is not the appearance of craziness but actual > insanity itself. The best way to convince others you are crazy is to actually be crazy. More practically, if you organize your nuclear forces so that any serious war is likely to escalate uncontrollably into the battle of armageddon, regardless of your intentions and desires, which is how the American government organized its nuclear forces in Europe, then you can pretty much guarantee you will not have to face a serious war. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Re: [Noise] Re: <rant> Re: Devil's Bargain
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:51 PM 7/24/96 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: >I'm surprised I haven't heard Kallstrom >calling for radically increased wiretapping yet or Freeh calling for >bans on encryption like he did after OKCity. As if it would have done any good. One of the news reports pointed out that if it was a bomb, it had probibly been placed on the plane in Greece. (But then, since when did logic and rationality have *ANYTHING* to do with the Freeh and Kalstrom wiretap jihad. I am waiting for one of them to get arrested as a peeping tom. Something deepseeted about these people's fetish about watching others...) --- Alan Olsen -- alano(a)teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ "We had to destroy the Internet in order to save it." - Sen. Exon "Microsoft -- Nothing but NT promises."

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[Noise] [Smut] [Off-topic] Re: A Global Village, or the future of porn on the net
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:04 AM 7/25/96 +0600, Arun Mehta wrote: >At 10:00 24/07/96 +0000, Alex F wrote: >> >>why is it that Bill(ary) signed an unconstitutional law? I >>am referring to the CDA and the telephony bill. > >... arguments that I wholeheartedly support deleted.. > >>Anyway, getting off-topic again. I'll be quiet now :) > >Let me see if I can bring this back on track. We have some interesting >developments that could converge: > >1) Legally, the Internet is more or less in the clear as far as indecency >is concerned. The moralists will rally again and put through a bill that >doesn't so blatantly violate the constitution, but for the time being >we're OK. Unless they start using prosecutions similar to what they pulled back during the Meese years with video distributors. I am waiting for them to start using RICO laws on sites carrying Usenet groups deemed "obscene". RICO has already been used in some juristictions for shutting down video stores (and maybe even bookstores). It is not over yet... The control freaks will not be happy until everything you view and see has previously been approved by some board or ministry. (Or they at least have some way of hurting you if you step out of line.) Whether that control freak behaviour is driven by religion, morality, "your own good", greed, power or lust does not matter. the results are pretty much that same. >2) Porn is very, very popular. As a consultant, I often use Netscape from >the offices of my clients, and invariably take a peek at the bookmarks. >Guess what is pointed to more than anything else. By making a hullaballoo >about porn on the net, its enemies may have shot themselves in the foot: >it will attract people rather than repel. But there is a social stigma surrounding porn. Most people who look at porn are not willing to admit it in front of friends and family. many of the more vocal opponnents to porn are the ones most attracted to it. Look at jimmy Swagart. He crusaded against it for years. Never stopped "Lonesome Cowboy Jim" (5 point if you can name that album and artist) from wanking off to it... >3) Porn on the net by and large isn't all that great, so if there is a risk, >it is that people might be bored. What you mostly have are stills of nudes >on the web and Usenet postings of indifferent quality. Depends where you go. Most of the Usenet stuff is crap, but that is true of any medium. (It is called a medium becuase it is rarely well done. (Stolen line... Forget the original author.)) There are exceptions. Usenet will give you smut that may (or is) illegal in your area. Some of this sort of stuff can be mail ordered, but there is more risk. (Like postal service stings/entrapment and the like.) There is much better quality available on the pay sites, but since you usually have to pay to view any of it, you never know what is available until you have forked out a bit of cash. (I am surprised I have not seen more sites using e-cash for this purpose... Porn drove the VCR industry for many years. I expect the same for the web and e-cash.) >4) the web is changing from static to dynamic through Java and the like. >VRML in fact adds a 3-D element. Most pay-for-porn sites are going for interactive video instead of java and/or vrml. (Yes, you can pay $$$ to duplicate the experience of a stroke booth via the net. All you lack is the resolution, the interaction, and the requisite sleeze of the experience. Dancers the size of postage stamps! Wow!) >Stir, add some spicy curry, and see if you get: > >Java classes for males and females corresponding to VRML >objects. The class methods might include kissing, hugging, >spanking, restraining... Might be interesting... This is more evident in CD-ROMs though. >A female object might be initialized with Hillary Clinton's face, Evangelista's >body... I think that was the cover of Spy magazine... >Anyone could now write a script which you could view enacted on >your screen, or interact with one another as in MUDs. Why, >someone might write a translator >that takes a story off alt.sex.whatever and produces >an appropriate script. People would only need to download the software and >appropriate objects once, then receive emscripts which could be >run in total privacy. "Be a Great porn Actor at Home!" Reenact bad plots, cheezy dialog, and bad writing in the privacy of your living room! >People should we willing to pay small amounts for use of the >classes and objects, >as well as for the scripts. Of course, it would only work in our >prudish societies if >the transactions were totally anonymous. If Digicash payment >systems were built-in, >that might be a reason for people to start adopting eCash. Well, if it is something that will cause arousal in male humans (or computer geeks), I am sure you can sell it. >Of course, this opens up a whole can of worms. For instance, >given the violence of >many pornographic stories on Usenet, it won't be long before >famous personalities >routinely get violated in cyberspace. Talk about copyright: do >you have the right >to prevent someone from doing this to you? Porn stories and/or hacked pictures of celebrities already occurs. Has since I have been on usenet... (Many years now.) One of my favorites involves the Brady Bunch... In fact there are celebrities who have hired people to track down phoney pictures and get them pulled from web sites. (I always expected something like this to show up on Star Trek:TNG. Having Beverly Crusher catching Weasly with the holodeck porn programs involving all sorts of convelutions of the bridge crew. He would probibly blame it on Riker...) >I unfortunately lack the bandwidth to find out the extent to >which porn on the net >is already moving in this direction. However, if you have >pointers, I'll go *find* >the bandwidth! Where on the net do people discuss such matters? Bandwidth is the only thing preventing the smut from getting farther than it already has. The easiest way to kill a web server is put porn on it and advertise. All of the schemes coming out for "cool gee-whiz web extensions" take more bandwidth than most people have... Just wait and see what happens when cable modems become available. Check out the alt.sex heirarchy. Something there I am sure... --- |"Computers are Voodoo -- You just have to know where to stick the pins."| |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ | alano(a)teleport.com |

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Re: DES-Busting Screen Savers?
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:01 AM 7/25/96 +0000, The Deviant wrote: >> To support scaling, make it easy for people to run subset servers; >> grab a chunk of keyspace from the main server and dole it out >> to people who ask you for it. If you want to get fancy, >> hack a DNS server to allow people to register their machines >> as NNN.descrack.org, 0<=NNN<1000, so that people can find >> subsets without having to ask the main server. >> > >Or hack it to use a 56 bit IP netmask-ish thing, and keep track of keys >that way (i'm not endorsing this idea, just pointing it out) I can see some problems doing this sort of allocation for those of us on dial up providers. When the IP address changes from log in to log in recording the IP address is not much help. You could always hand them a digital signature with the key space signed by the server... --- Alan Olsen -- alano(a)teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ "We had to destroy the Internet in order to save it." - Sen. Exon "Microsoft -- Nothing but NT promises."

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Re: Digital Watermarks for copy protection in recent Billbo (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi all, The Sampling Theorem in operation is a little more complicated than the model that is being discussed. Forwarded message: > From: mpd(a)netcom.com (Mike Duvos) > Subject: Re: Digital Watermarks for copy protection in recent Billbo > Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:38:36 -0700 (PDT) > "Perry E. Metzger" <perry(a)piermont.com> writes: > > > The Nyquist Theorem states you need exactly twice the > > samples, not over twice. The magic number isn't something > > like 2.2, its exactly 2. > > The Sampling Theorem states that equally spaced instantaneous > samples must be taken at a rate GREATER THAN twice the highest > frequency present in the analog signal being sampled. If this is > done, the samples contain all the information in the signal, and > faithful reconstruction is possible. Actualy the sampling theorem states that if you want to reproduce a signal reliably it must be sampled at a frequency AT LEAST TWICE that of the highest frequency of interest in the FFT of the signal. This means the signal must be deformable into sine waves, not all signals qualify for this particular limitation and in general are not good signals for sampling. An example is a step change from v1 to v2. since there is no change in voltage except for a brief moment the output of the FFT is pretty much flat. What comes out the other end looks like a spike (similar to what happens when you feed a square wave to a transformer and look at the output). If you reconstruct this via the sampling theorem you get a sign wave of extremely low amplitude and frequency. If you think of a FFT as taking a signal and breaking it down into componant frequencies. Then think of a hair comb where the lowest frequencies are the bigger teeth (put them to the L. when looking at it). Because sign waves have zero crossings a single sample per cycle is not enough. By taking at least two samples a cycle you are guaranteed not to miss the presence or absence of a componant frequency. So this guarantees that we get a accurate count of componants and their phase relations to each other (where the arbitrary time reference comes in - really a fixed frequency clock). Back to the comb. Where a given signal has a componant leave the teeth. Where there is no componant break them off. You are left with a ratty looking comb. Now to each of the remaining teeth assign an amplitude for that specific frequency that is consistent with the FFT you calculated. The way this FFT is implimented in practice is called a 'Comb Filter' where it samples the signal (wide bandwidth) over a set of very small bandwidth filters in parallel. Scanning the output of the filters at a fixed rate you get a phase relation as well. Digitize the signals in a particular pattern and you are ready to cut your CD or whatever. It does NOT guarantee faithful representation of the original signal but rather a signal with the same energy spectrum and phase characteristics. One of the basic ideas of Algebra is that any given curve can be explained by a arbitrary set of equations. The Sampling Theorem just gives you a rationale for picking from that set. > Exactly twice the highest frequency won't do, and it should be > obvious that sampling a sine wave at twice its frequency yields > samples of constant magnitude and alternating sign which convey > nothing about its phase and little useful about its amplitude > either. (Drawing a little picture might be helpful here.) Exactly what the theorem is supposed to produce. You take your original signal and run it through a FFT. You look at the bandwidth you desire. The highest frequency of interest is 1/2 or less your sampling frequency. With this information you can build a set of sine waves whose amplitude is given by the FFT along with phase relations. Since you are breaking the signal into sine waves (which happen to be well defined) all you realy need is to know the maximum and minimum amplitudes as well as their phase to some arbitrary but constant time reference. Sum them back together on the other side and what you got? A reasonable useable copy of your original signal. This is why DSP's are optimized for multiplication (multiply the amplitude of that componant by its presence in the FFT) and summing (add them together to get the target signal). Generaly because of noise and similar phenomena it is commen to multiply and add windows of samples (ie averaging). > Although anything over twice the highest frequency will work in a > theoretical sense, a small fudge factor does wonders for digital > signal processing, if only to reduce to a reasonable value the > width of the window into the sample stream needed for various > signal manipulations. Actualy I believe the decision was made by Philips (the inventor of the CD) to settle on the 44kHz sample rate because of some design option it simplified. I unfortunately don't remember anything more specific than that. Anyone got the CD Rom bible? Jim Choate

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Re: Netscape 3.0B US version MD5
by nobody＠c2.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jeff Weinstein <jsw(a)netscape.com> wrote: > The final version of 3.0 will be available for download well > before Sept 17. That version will not have a timebomb. Even > the timebombed versions will let you connect to our site to > download new versions. Is there a possibility that the US version of Netscape 2.02 for Windows 3.1 will be made available via this mechanism? I run OS/2 in a WinOS/2 session under OS/2 Warp, and the 16 bit version of 2.02 is the latest one that us OS/2 Warp users of Netscape have been able to get working. None of the 3.0 betas will work, for some reason. (If you have a "wish list" there, a native OS/2 version of Netscape would be nice, too! <g>)

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Re: [Noise] Re: <rant> Re: Devil's Bargain
by Cerridwyn Llewyellyn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>protect us from terrorists. I'm surprised I haven't heard Kallstrom >calling for radically increased wiretapping yet or Freeh calling for >bans on encryption like he did after OKCity. He's saving that for later this morning... //cerridwyn//

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RE: [Noise] was Re: Givin
by pjn＠nworks.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In> I guess I don't really have to worry too much, though. It is illegal In> for children to possess such items publicly, and any parent who In> condones it is simply breaking the law. I don't blame the child, I In> blame the moronic parent who let's it happen. You would be suprised at what kids can get away with without their parents knowing... P.J. pjn(a)nworks.com ... Wndows is jst finefor bacgrond telcomncations. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

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Twenty Bank Robbers -- Game theory:)
by ichudov＠galaxy.galstar.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's a puzzle for our game theorists. Twenty cypherpunks robbed a bank. They took 20 million bucks. Here's how they plan to split the money: they stay in line, and the first guy suggests how to split the money. Then they vote on his suggestion. If 50% or more vote for his proposal, his suggestion is adopted. Otherwise they kill the first robber and now it is the turn of guy #2 to make another splitting proposal. Same voting rules apply. The question is, what will be the outcome? How will they split the money, how many robbers will be dead, and so on? igor

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[Rant]Re: Shell buys key escrow system from TIS
by liberty＠gate.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Will Rodger,<rodger(a)interramp.com> Washington Bureau Chief of Inter@ctive Week, wrote: <snips> >Administration officials didn't return calls for comment, but it's clear >that the Clinton-Gore team have their first "testbed" for trying out key >recovery, or key escrow, proposals. Hmmm. A new meme, "key recovery" is lots better than "key escrow," but I still wonder if I'm ever gonna see a journalist say, "'GAK,' or Govt. Access to Keys for cryptography." >...The multinational company will self-escrow, that is handle >all encryption keys itself, in cooperation with the British government, >sources close to the deal said. I'm left wondering about a few cooperation-with-the-corporation issues here regarding the Brit.govt, but I suppose time will tell how much of Orwell is coming true in his own homeland. >Walker declined to name the company, but several Washington-based sources >confirmed the buyer is Royal Dutch Shell. Largest corporation in the world, if I'm not mistaken. >The deal represent the first time that a foreign buyer has purchased a US >key escrow product without escrowing keys in the US. ... [I can hear Gore/Gorelick now, "Well, as long as it goes to SOME big government (with a road-to-serfdom track record in economic freedom) it's OK by me!"] >Walker, widely credited with devising the controversial commerical key >escrow system now being promoted by the current administration, claimed >"there really is an important issue here in finding a balance between the >interest of government and those of industry. ... I suppose we will hear after the election of the balance between the interests of government and those of indIVIDUALS. I always see this image of me, sitting on one end of a see-saw, with former congressman Rostenkowski on the other end. JMR PS Anyone who has had the pleasure of meeting my pal Joey Grasty would NEVER question his cypherpunk (or U.S.) patriotism. Regards, Jim Ray -- DNRC Minister of Encryption Advocacy "It is long past time to end the laughable presumption that voters who can easily cope with the choices offered at Burger King are somehow 'confused' by more than two choices at the voting booth." -- me, in the Miami Herald, June 24, 1996, p. 10A. Defeat the Duopoly! Vote "NOTA," not Slick/Dull in November. Harry Browne for President. Jo Jorgensen for Vice-president. http://www.HarryBrowne96.org/ ___________________________________________________________________ PGP id.E9BD6D35 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE 53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 <mailto:liberty@gate.net> http://www.shopmiami.com/prs/jimray Coming soon, the "Pennies For Perot" page. Keep billionaires off welfare! ___________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh. iQCVAwUBMfdJNm1lp8bpvW01AQGLOAQAkHzibmIw8OKsbUqFjRXy/MrkVhszA+8l z+RmUoLy52D85ZpTsSivwyPGybeAyTs/V3IGiZx8WX8tBIIdyiFHNWlesjsShiro sTVx+a8qXZ1NSS8KMIScfqh3piXjnDJWeDqbFsZAM+JvHIREzASSrky2Xhb0/fIv ITuwCG7P22A= =2+iV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Parsing John Youn (Re: OPS_nuk)
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim asked for a translation. I thought it was one of John's more declarative summaries. It this case, it's reality that's skewed. Voila: >At 3:30 PM 7/24/96, John Young wrote: >> The WSJ Page Ones a loser's game There is an article on the first page of the Wall Street Journal about financial losses... >> about the CIA's role in >> promoting Japanese pachinko cards to halt the surreptitious >> funneling of betting cash to the construction of a North >> Korean nuclear plant. The Central Intelligence Agency told the Japanese government that Pachinko parlors (many run by ethnic Koreans) were sending hard currency to North Korea which was assisting it in building a plant to produce fissionable materials. The Japanese decided to strong arm Pachinko parlors into using magnetic cards instead of cash to discourage money laundering. >> And the op's nuking by the Kobe quake >> looting of card-reading mechanisms, cracking encryption >> codes, and counterfeiting not-so-smart cards for counter- >> tipping the house fix. Mondex, watcher bleedin arse. During the Kobe earthquake recovery, a number of Pachinko machines were stolen, reverse engineered, and fake cards produced. They were then cashed in -- causing massive losses to the issuers. The encryption technology was very weak. Mondex watch out that the same thing doesn't happen to you. DCF "I've been translating engineers into English for years. John's no problem."

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Re: A Global Village; an open letter to Bill & Hill and also Mr. & Mrs. Dole, from Asim at Molecule One. Cypherpunks, please excuse this note.
by pjb＠ny.ubs.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

really relevent to this list, way to go asim. what if we all choose to clutter this list with our own little hot buttons? -paul > From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Wed Jul 24 18:20:55 1996 > X-Sender: molecul1(a)molecule1.com > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3b4 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> > Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:48:32 -0700 > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > From: molecul1(a)molecule1.com (Molecule One Scientific Research Institute) > Subject: A Global Village; an open letter to Bill & Hill and also Mr. & Mrs. Dole, from Asim at Molecule One. Cypherpunks, please excuse this note. > Cc: molecul1(a)molecule1.com > Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Content-Length: 4562 > > Honourable wishes, > > I write about Mrs. Clinton's concept of Global Village and wholeheartedly, > pledge my support to such an important concept. > > The world is everchanging and Mrs. Clinton is correct in that the > industrialized > countries have lost, most, of their extended families. This makes children > vulnerable to danger. If in need of help, such children are commonly abused > due to their vulnerability. > > I want to take this moment to express some understandings. Firstly, it > was never in my plan to locate where I have been over the last while. > Probably, if it hadn't been for many malicious encounters, I probably > would of gone to a remote island, as I hold so dear to my heart. A > close friend was severly violated and I had to witness a war being > fought against civillians. When an insurance policy becomes more > valuable than the human life, something must be wrong with social > ethics. > > To live through many of the experiences I had to, while living here, > made me realize high technology is dangerous in many peoples > lives. To manipulate peoples decisions using brute force seemed > terribly wrong to me. Many of the people controlling the situations > are also stressed out. Abuse results from stress. > > Concerning the old man. I knew of this man since childhood. I > always considered him one of the greatest neuroscientists > on the planet earth. Even his friends hold him with a greatest > respect. What he accomplished, very few could match his > accomplishments. > > I send much thanks to Point Communications for allowing me > a long interview about my social concerns. I wanted to personally > thank all the K12 students that partook in my interview. I was > never able to attend the requests of some of those students, > that asked me to review some of their essays, as my time > was occupied with endless other obstacles. I want those > students to understand that I just couldn't. > > I want to thank all those cool students that let me participate > at their, private, dance parties. They know I attended endless > dance parties, researching technological requirements, > so they are happy and socially satisfied. I also got to > know what kind of social threats they are faced with, both, > underground and official. Stress does tend to corrupt some > people. > > I want you to understand that I came up with Molecule One > as a means to address the needs of a culture. Even though > many plots were directed at me for proposing this project, > I always knew I spoke the truth and my intentions were > pure. Neurosciences has always been a lifelong inspiration > to me. Standards, to improve the quality of life in society, > seemed a noble goal. > > I want the students to know that Molecule One was > created for their benefit first. They are the future. When > a child remains innocent, that innocence should be > protected. Far too often, children loose their innocence > to hardend people, who's primary motive is malicious > intent. Naivete and innocence is purity and lack of > ethical standard is rampent. > > I knew that acceptance of truth is difficult for > some people, especially those ignorant and those > conditioned to believe otherwise. I always chose > positive as an outcome for motive. > > I want to thank all of you, Republican, Democrat, > and families, friends and which other political > inspiration. I respect all life and those standards that > can increase the health standard of all people. There > are many important factors that must be considered > to insure a safe and healthy society, of the > future. To work together, to attain this standard, > is important for all people, irregardless of color. > Care and courtesy, toward our fellow people, > is another social characteristic that is becoming > lost, with the loss of the extended family. > > I also want to thank all those cool computer folk > that let me play upon the info highway, as it was > being developed. I want to thank all those > cyberfolk that recognised the import of all > topics covered. Understand well, visions of > tropical islands have floated through my mind, > probably, everyday I've been here. It was > my concern for the youth and for the elderly > that made me stay and attempt to create > a project that could bring happiness and > harmony, to the society, for a long time to > come. It is a challenge. > > Thanks for the cyber inspiration, acknowledgement > and being allowed the opportunity to create a > work of art that can benefit so many. > > To the 1'st family & 2 Mr.& Mrs. Dole, all friends and families. > > Peace and best wishes, > Sincerely, > > Asim > molecul1(a)molecule1.com > >

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RPK Public Key Cryptography
by Stephen Cobb 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

New algorithm from outside US, new crypto challenge? My apologies to the list if this subject is old hat but someone just pointed me to the RPK Public Key Cryptography site and I was wondering what people thought of this particular technology. The RPK Public Key Cryptography site at http://crypto.swdev.co.nz/ says: Have a look at this new approach to information privacy, designed and developed in New Zealand. The RPK public key cryptosystem provides industrial-strength public key cryptography that's available worldwide. You'll find full technical information, free evaluation software and development tools, and details of our SafeCracker Challenge program where you can earn a $$$ REWARD $$$ while trying to put us out of business! The inventor and developer of the RPK system is aparently Dr. William M.Raike who holds a US patent as co-inventor of scrambler which NSA banned in the US. The Nicolai/Raike case attracted some media attention and, after the NSA rescinded the order, it was one of the first instances in which an NSA director commented publicly on patent secrecy issues. That invention had its roots in spread spectrum technology. Note sure if that has any bearing on the public key offering. Note that I have no connection with this person, software or site, just natural curiousity about what cypherpunks think about it. Stephen Cobb, CISSP

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Schelling Points, Rights, and Game Theory--Part II
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

tcmay(a)got.net wrote: >I believe the game-theoretic and evolutionary approaches, mixed in with >economics, offer the most solid grounding for the discussion of rights. I'll try keep my response brief, because I seem to swerve between didactic and sarcastic without being able to stop in between. As others have said, look where I'm pointing, not at what I'm pointing with. So here goes... Basically, in this view of rights and raising of children it would seem that a relativistic pragmatism prevails. Personally, I think that the two choices are either this relative pragmatism or an absolute morality. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Some implications of Tim's view is that all our rights are basically a transitory agreement between individuals. If at any time the "cost" of a right becomes too high for too many (e.g. free speech leading to X for some X), then it is quite possible that this "right" will be removed. The "losers" have no higher appeal process in this matter than that of trying to gain a different consensus. This may work while there is not a large power gap between any two individuals or groups, but as power shifts to fewer people and groups (economic, social, political, etc...) the "losers" may find that the lowest cost path is into some form of economic serfdom or slavery (e.g. McJobs). Ask Phil for other examples ;-). Unlike Rawls, we are not in a position of developing our laws in advance of determining our social standing. I personally believe that our ability to develop reasonable laws and social structures will persist only as long as the majority of us have the ability to "put ourselves in someone else's shoes" and do in practical terms what Rawls suggests in theoretical ones. As soon as those with power are not able to see a situation where they could become like those without power, there will cease to be motivation to maintain a "safety net" of rights or economic means to protect the "losers" of our society. James

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Re: Digital Watermarks (long, getting off-topic)
by Alex F 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >>Isn't it odd that when music is sold, CD's are MORE expensive than cassette > >>tapes, even though you _know_ that the manufacturing cost of CD's is less? > > > >CDs sell for more because buyers decided that they wanted a wider range of > >titles with shallower sales (hence higher unit costs) rather than a narrower > I'm afraid that quantitatively, this is utter nonsense. > > A relevant data point is the fact that for about $1000, anybody can have > 1000 copies of a custom CDROM manufactured. That, by music industry The real; answer to all of these points is too simple. "Because they can" A lot has to do with percieved value. If consumers would have thought that the prices were way too high, then the market would have dictated a lower cost eventually. I think that the price of CDs vs tapes is more a marketing issue than a technical one.... Alex F =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alex F alexf(a)iss.net Marketing Specialist Internet Security Systems =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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