December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

DOES U.S. INTERVENTION OVERSEAS BREED TERRORISM?
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

<snip from http://www.cato.org/pubs/fpbriefs/fpb-050es.html> Executive Summary According to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, terrorism is the most important threat the United States and the world face as the 21st century begins. High-level U.S. officials have acknowledged that terrorists are now more likely to be able to obtain and use nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons than ever before. Yet most attention has been focused on combating terrorism by deterring and disrupting it beforehand and retaliating against it after the fact. Less attention has been paid to what motivates terrorists to launch attacks. According to the Pentagon's Defense Science Board, a strong correlation exists between U.S. involvement in international situations and an increase in terrorist attacks against the United States. President Clinton has also acknowledged that link. The board, however, has provided no empirical data to support its conclusion. This paper fills that gap by citing many examples of terrorist attacks on the United States in retaliation for U.S. intervention overseas. The numerous incidents cataloged suggest that the United States could reduce the chances of such devastating--and potentially catastrophic--terrorist attacks by adopting a policy of military restraint overseas. <snop> <snip> In fact, the interventionist foreign policy currently pursued by the United States is an aberration in its history. Adopting a policy of military restraint would return the United States to the traditional foreign policy it pursued for the first century and a half of its existence before the Cold War distorted it. Such a foreign policy is more compatible with the individual freedoms and economic prosperity that define the American way of life. <snop>

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Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls. > The cages I've used were framed in wood and had several layers of copper screening. The mesh was like standard window screen, <.125". There were two, I think sometimes three, layers. The corners/joints were copper sheet. The screen was soldered to the corners. The doors were stepped or beveled and had several sets of fingers - indside edge, outside edge, perhaps one intermediate. Screen makes ventilation easier. Power should be brought in through a separate, partitioned, shielded box with filtering in each partition. Phone lines, same thing. You trust your apps, os and TCP/IP stack to not rat you out? If not, work off-line always. One cage I saw had ferrite tiles on the solid walls to minimize internal reflections which would cut down on leakage too. Al foil if it were thick enough would be OK but how do you reliably join edges? Al has a bad habit of oxidizing rapidly in air. I guess you could fold edges over several times - seems tacky. Converting your study is non-trivial. The door would look like crap. You would need the euivalent of a door over the window. Build one in your garage. Make it out of sections so you can move it. 6' x 8' seems about right for a couple computers and some lab equip. Is the cost justified? I wouldn't trust 1/2" galvanized chicken wire for containing anything but chickens or other non-gnawing furry woodland creatures. Mike

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mobil cctv cameras... sigh...
by Sunder 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.patrolcctv.com/ "PATROL CCTV: The PATROL CCTV Called MOBILE VISION, is a mobile surveillance system, which extends the visual perimeter for Law Enforcement, Military, Government mobile surveillance requirements and for both on and off road driving for SUV enthusiasts. A Pan/Tilt/Zoom is compatible with in-car video recorders. Stabilizes images, reads license plates at 300FT. With a 24X Zoom and 85,000:1 dynamic range camera, makes Mobile Vision a unique system. " -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ------------------- + ^ + Sunder "The real aim of current policy is to /|\ \|/ sunder(a)sunder.net ensure the continued effectiveness of /\|/\ <--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF US information warfare assets against \/|\/ /|\ STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY! individuals,businesses and governments \|/ + v + PROTEST WASSENAAR!!! in Europe and elsewhere" -- Ross Anderson ------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ---------------------- RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI

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http://walkerdigital.com/html/patents.html
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Walker Digital, a self-described "Edison in Menlo Park" knockoff, and propagator of the priceline.com business model patent (which see, above), is the feature article of this week's omi-1998-gawd issue of The Industry Standard. WD has been patenting everything it can think of, including something I heard of at least 3 years ago from Eric Hughes and Bob Hilby at Simple Access: accumulating internet purchases to a 900- telephone number bill. However, since WD is 5 years old, maybe they got there first after after all, and that's why Hilby, Hughes and Co., stopped talking about it. Either that or Eric got Yet Another Big Idea, and they went chasing down *that* rabbithole instead. As a mostly unmedicated ADDer, I can sympathize with that problem, myself :-)... Anyway, since business process patents are the subject of this month's DCSB meeting, with what I'm sure will be a great talk by Michael Schmelzer and Ira Heffan of Testa Hurwitz here in Boston, I figured I'd give everyone on these lists some food for beforehand. People should monitor <http://www.thestandard.com>, for the actual text of the article, if and when it eventually hits their archives. It'll probably take a week or so. If, of course, they don't have a copy of the magazine themselves already, that is. William Braddock, who's the chairman and CEO of Priceline now, used to be up my direct chain of command, three or four bosses up, when I was an operations analyst at Citicorp 10 years ago, though I never met him. Eventually, he ended up President and CEO of Citicorp after I left. The guys I worked for always used to talk about him reverentually, but that could just be an organization-man thing. I seem to remember Steve Schear, who used to work at a different Citicorp company back then, talking lately about Braddock once or twice, but I can't remember if Schear knew Braddock back then or not. Finally, and most important for us, it looks like Bruce Schnier's involved with Walker Digital as a partner. Given the cryptographic content of not a few of their patents, (like 5,828,751, "Method for Secure Measurement Certification", or 5,768,832, "Remote-Auditing of Computer-Generated Outcomes and Authenticated Billing and Access-Control System Using Cryptographic and Other Protocols") it looks like that's where he's parking some of his IP these days. But, of course, I haven't gone to look at the patents themselves to see if his name's on them, so that's only speculation. Curioser and curioser. Reading all of this stuff this afternoon me made me antsy enough, grouchy, really, to start a rant about this kind of patent-farming, sparked both by all the registered trademarks in the DigiCash bankruptcy filing, and compounded all the fun things Walker Digital has gone and patented, things which are braindead simple. To some people, anyway. :-). Priceline, for instance, seems to me exactly like the specialist's book at the New York Stock Exchange, frankly, but since it's now on the internet, it's patentable, according to the Patent Office. Anyway, the rant on this is forthcoming, or at least in the hopper, my having vented a little steam here, and, in the meantime, I thought I'd fire off this heads-up to everyone so they can read the Industry Standard article themselves. It's on Page 60 of the December 28 / January 4 issue. And, tangentally, to plug January 5th's DCSB meeting, of course, :-), which should be a really good one, in light of current events. Cheers, Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNoFsicUCGwxmWcHhAQFQzQgAmVZDbchvpnDb5/ofq9OKGu5yqD9YMnyf I0H75rjorm/k9TNSC8kH1yvp8s0n6eaXh0r7Bf0CayYeAKg+4tZHHjysHKxKowwR Xjcmm8ACwNLTlQTF1GWpaUoSE5RQ3cDZJKJGHA3OQRRewJlC7D/Zz48pZfP7EXuB ASDOC+f+aDjAYFa66d8ax1a49SbKC4Xpr0blpxp9uCU7aUdgJp51H25jiZvE/Wi3 NvgxDZzw1me6LToSPZR+qa7rmExlEyFJsDmhYkhHh7PH8qOR4gwGXD9ZunpPlm6U buW99TtKNzM32os0Pdbod9AcuifOS+s1f5ubJxJ5i21RmeeOPEtiig== =wb+S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Navy ordinace personnel always to have a keen sense of irony and, therefore, a fine sense of humor. On Cohen. Well, he affirms his belief in his coic. What else needs to be said? This press statement does sound like Algore though. Maybe the two have been spending too much time together or drinking from the same fruit bowl. ;) anon y. mous

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Re: Jury Duty
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles writes: >If you really do want to avoid jury service, mentioning FIJA or jury >nullification ought to do the trick - it may get every juror within >earshot excused, too, depending on how paranoid the locals are. > >But I think that's a horrible idea - jury participation is an opportunity >to exercise much more influence than you wield if/when you vote in an >election. All by yourself, voting your conscience as shaped by the >evidence and the jury instructions, you can force a mistrial, which might >or might not mean the end of the case. If your view of the evidence and >your understanding of the law, as explained by the judge in the jury >instructions, proves to be persuasive to your fellow jurors, you will >collectively make the law as it applies to the parties in your trial. It's >pretty difficult to overturn a jury verdict - not impossible, but it's >harder than you might think from watching TV. Be aware that concealing your opinions on this matter can get you into hot water. Juror Laura Kriho was convicted of obstruction of justice for not revealing that she believed in jury nullification, during the selection process. Kriho has appealed. More information is at http://home.utah-inter.net/don-tiggre/jrp.krihotoc.htm. The judge's ruling, at http://www.eagle-access.net/index3.html: :} After reviewing all the evidence and the law, and applying the standard :} of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, the Court reaches the following :} conclusions. During the jury selection process Ms. Kriho was aware that :} the trial court and the lawyers felt it was a juror's duty to follow the :} law as given by the trial court, and they wanted to know if any juror :} disagreed with this proposition. Ms. Kriho was also aware that the trial :} court and the parties wanted to know if the jurors could follow the rule :} that punishment was not to enter into their deliberations. Ms. Kriho :} was also aware that the trial court and the parties wanted to know if :} the jurors could follow the rule that punishment was not to enter into :} their deliberations. Ms. Kriho was also aware that the trial court and :} the parties wanted to know if any juror had strong feelings concerning :} the enforcement of drug laws or any experience that would affect their :} attitude about drug laws. While being aware of the importance of these :} issues and having been given the opportunity to comment on these issues, :} Ms. Kriho deliberately withheld her opinions on these topics from the :} trial court and the parties during the jury selection process. Based on :} all the evidence, this Court concludes that it was Ms. Kriho's intent to :} withhold this information from the trial court and the parties so that :} she could be selected to serve on the jury and obstruct the judicial :} process. By deliberately withholding this information, she obstructed :} the process of selecting a fair and impartial jury. The selection of :} jurors who have open minds and who have not preconceived the verdict :} is essential for a fair trial. Ms. Kriho's lack of candor about her :} experiences and attitudes led to the selection of a jury doomed to :} mistrial from the start. This Court finds this conduct constitutes :} obstruction of justice and this conduct was offensive to the authority :} and dignity of the trial court.

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Re: http://walkerdigital.com/html/patents.html
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:18:40 -0800 (PST) From: <Somebody (who founded a software company :-))> To: rah(a)shipwright.com Subject: Re: http://walkerdigital.com/html/patents.html Status: U IMHO, the patent office has no clue what the hell they're doing. Maybe it is time we do away with patents and let people who feel ripped off rely the courts for restitution. I have always thought that patents were to protect the inventor from being ripped off. However, i now find that: 1. patents are slowing down progress, since someone with a better idea can't use that idea since somehow, any incarnation of the patented idea, however different it may be, is covered by the broadness of the patent, thanks to some high paid lawyer. 2. patents are meant for "inventions", not ideas. Ideas are getting patented everyday. I know of many. Why do I consider them ideas and not inventions? Because the patented "thing" isn't available. There is a description of how it will work, what it will do and how someone could build it, in a million different ways, if they could figure out the tiny details themselves, since that is the part missing. But can you go anywhere and touch the invention, or see it operate or use it in some manner, however preliminary? No. I still have the folder that E*Data sent me four or more years ago, stating: We would rather license than litigate. Here is a list of companies we've sued. You'd look through the paperwork and everything was spelled out except what you would get from them if you licensed their patent, other than permission. You remember E-Data? Where are they now? Well they had a big blow a few months ago to their silly patent. All in all, I don't think patents help the small inventor any more. Those who can afford it, tell a lawyer what they are thinking and in 60-90 days, the attorney will have filed a patent with no more than a few follow-up phone calls or faxes. Those who can't afford it will continue to be robbed of their inventions. My rant. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:22:58 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka <mmotyka(a)lsil.com> > Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS > These were commercial cages used in the consumer products design Someplace you might want to check into about actual real-world cage design and computers is Cray. When I worked at UT Austin and we put in the comp center at the Balconese Research Center it had a wire mesh cage installed per spec by Cray for the X-MP & Y-MP. It would not surprise me if they didn't have some literture and design guides available. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Merry Christmas from <Somewhere>
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Now, *this* is curious... Anyone, especially from C2NET, wanna take a shot at the following? I think I can tell him what CTO means ;-), but what about the rest? Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text From: Somebody To: <rah(a)philodox.com> Subject: Merry Christmas from <Somewhere> Date: <would actually tell you where they were...> Status: U Dear Rob Hettinga Merry Christmas and a happy new year! Hi, my name is <Somebody> I hope you remember me from FC98. I am trying to find out what is happening with C2net. I heard a rumor that C2net had corporate restructuring and Sameer quit CEO and became CTO. What is CTO anyway? Also, there was a rumor that someone who was in charge of the development of the SSL in Australia quit working for C2net. Does this have to do with Sameer's announcement of the OpenSSL project? I really need to know this. Please reply to my e-mail if you know anything about it. Thank you. <Somebody's .sig> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Expansion of handgun bans? [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/23/gun.study/ > > EXPAND THE HANDGUN BAN? STUDY DRAWS FIRE > > guns December 23, 1998 > Web posted at: 4:28 p.m. EST (2128 GMT) > > In this story: > * Misdemeanor convictions linked to future crimes > * Critic: Study flawed > * Related stories and sites > > > > CHICAGO (CNN) -- It's legal in the United States for a person > convicted of a misdemeanor to buy a handgun. But, according to a study > being challenged as flawed, such purchasers are more likely than those > without a criminal record to commit a crime and should be barred from > buying handguns, just as felons are. > > The study was published Wednesday in the Journal of the American > Medical Association. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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bug recipes
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax breeding.. The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is passe. What you *really* want to do is dig up a smallpox victim...

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ruskies on crypto
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.jmls.edu/cyber/docs/ruscrypt.html DECREE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION Concerning legal matters in the area of development, production, sale and usage of encoding devices, and also for the assignment of responsibility concerning the encoding of information http://www.emoney.ru/eng/about/our_publications.htm Our publications "What is "Digital Money" A.I.Demidov, C.V.Preobrazhensky. "Planet Internet", 1997, July, Russian. "Cryptography basics" A.I.Demidov. "Internet World" #7(10), 1997, July. Russian. "Internet commerce" A.I.Demidov. "Itogi" (JV with "Newsweek") #24(57), 1997, June. Russian. "The main types of Internet payment systems" A.I.Demidov "Internet World" #6(9), 1997, June. Russian. "Digital Cash" A.I.Demidov. "CardWorld" #8, 1997, May. Russian. "Information site: www.emoney.ru" C.V.Preobrazhensky. ROCIT workshop "Electronic commerce and Internet payment systems", 1997, April. Russian. "Ways of Internet payment systems development in Russia" A.I.Demidov. ROCIT workshop "Electronic commerce and Internet payment systems", 1997, April. Russian. "What is digital money?" A.I.Demidov. "Money" #8(116), 1997, March. Russian. http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/coding/379/lesson1.htm CLASSICAL CRYPTOGRAPHY COURSE

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Re: bug recipes
by uhm, yeah.. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax breeding.. > What? >The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is passe. What >you *really* want to do is dig up a smallpox victim... > You must have a lot of time on your hands, eh? > - neotek ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

INTELLIGENT VIRUS INVADES NT SERVERS A new computer virus that attacked 10 MCI Worldcom networks last week is capable of spreading throughout computer networks and scrambling the documents on those networks as it goes. "We've never seen anything this sophisticated in 10 years of doing this," says Network Associates' general manager of network security. "This is a completely new strain of virus and the first we've seen that propagates itself with no user interaction." The "Remote Explorer" virus runs on Microsoft Windows NT servers and affects common programs like Microsoft Word. Users clicking on their Word icon might experience a slight delay, but otherwise would be unable to detect the presence of the virus; meanwhile, the virus is busy corrupting files and spreading to other programs. Microsoft officials say they're "aware of other viruses that have the same characteristics," and Network Associates says it has developed a Remote Explorer detector and is working on a solution to decode the affected files. (Wall Street Journal 22 Dec 98) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}

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Re: bug recipes
by Pallas Anonymous Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax >breeding.. > >The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is >passe. What you *really* want to do is dig up a >smallpox victim... The only Mils vaccinated are the ones going into saudi and bosnia and other High-threat area's. They will not be fully vac'ed for another 3-5 years. As far as smallpox...I'd just as soon that shit NEVER get dug up. I somehow doubt a skeleton could harbor usable smallpox but I am not up on my biology tonight. --Skrill

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Is Sameer/C2net Attempting to subvert the OpenSSL and Mod-ssl projects
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net cc: Subject: OpenSSL and C2Nets attempted subversion of same(Sameers track record -------- On the Subject of Sameers record with open source mod_ssl.c(this was the component that Sameer wishes wasnt available(and did his best to deny to his customers) and indeed was quite sucessful in preventing its availability until Ralf Engleschall's mod_ssl becam available... This is the REAL reason C2net took a nose dive...) and now it appears Sameer is trying to co-opt that project also. I trust Ben Laurie and Ralf... They developed the code . I DONT trust Sameer... he is simply a privateer, he takes sources and trys to restrict availability so he can make a profit from Intellectual Property NOT developed by him... I specifically suspect his announcement coming on the heels of Ben's. I dont think this person will ever get a clue about either Open Source or GPL. merry Xmas the baby ruth bar in the swimming pool :)

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Ping
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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by Bernies 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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SCC's SmartFilter Bans Crypto/Privacy Website(s) as Naughty, not Nice?
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:59:49 -0500 To: cryptography(a)C2.net From: Vin McLellan <vin(a)shore.net> Subject: SCC's SmartFilter Bans Crypto/Privacy Website(s) as Naughty, not Nice? Sender: owner-coderpunks(a)toad.com This is an amazing story! Security Computing Corporation <http://www.scc.com> sells a content filter ("SmartFilter") which is used to restrict web access from within corporations and other organizations. Lauren Weinstein, the moderator of the widely respected Privacy Forum, a mailing list and website on the Internet at <http://www.vortex.com>, recently reported that for over a year (see the attached post) corporate employees at sites which use SCC's SmartFilter have typically been restricted from accessing the Privacy Forum website or archives because the Privacy Forum's occasional discussion of cryptography. These discussions -- no code, all high-level discussions of civil and ethical values, policy, and crypto politics -- were apparently enough to define the Privacy Forum website as a repository of "criminal skill." Some SCC corporate customers, according to Weinstein, had explicitly asked for crypto resource sites on the web to be defined as off-limits. It is still unclear how those requests (one from the corporate site which brought the matter to Weinstein's attention) resulted in SCC staff labelling the Privacy Forum website -- along with, one must presume, many _many_ others -- as a repository of criminal skills. (Other sites which fall into this SmartFilter category include, for example, websites which make available information about what ingredients can be used to make a bomb. Shades of Wassenaar and ITAR.) What is amazing, of course, is that Secure Computing is one of the more sophisticated vendors in computer security. There are a lot of smart people at SCC who will doubtless cringe when they hear this story. It may, in fact, seem hilarious to some of them that SCC's website evaluation staff (and the web filters they use to express and embody their judgements) could categorize a privacy site as "criminal" just because it archives discussions of cryptography and crypto politics. Some of the best of those discussions, for instance, may have involved SCC employees like cryptographer Rick Smith;-) What is _really_ sad is that -- when Weinstein complained that a website categorized as offering "criminal skills" by SCC's SmartFilter staff may, with no recourse, suffer irrepreparable harm -- the best and most daring response SCC could come up with was to promise to set up a website at which organizations and commercial entities could query the SCC database to see how SCC's website evaluators labelled them. (This, of course, presumes these organizations hear about SCC's Smartfilter product.... It also presumes that representatives of those agencies, firms, or organizations feel compelled to inquire to see if SCC's professional moralists labelled them in some similarly eccentric category.) Not exactly clear on the concept, those clever SmartFilter folk. Frankly, not in a million years would anyone outside of the bowels of the Hoover Building consider crypto savvy (or an obsession with privacy) as inherently "criminal." Not yet anyway. I do hope that SCC has sold a few thousand copies of SmartFilter which routinely block corporate employee access to some feisty, litigious, and well-networked civil libertarian groups like the ACLU, EPIC, CDT, or PI as repositories of Criminal Skills. Oh, yes indeed! In fact, if the Privacy Forum was labelled as "criminal" because of an ocassional discussion of crypto, does it make sense that the websites of SDTI/RSA, Entrust, IBM, MS, Netscape, et al, eluded the ban and some similar label? Inquiring Minds wanna to know. The SmartFilter has been awarded "certification" by the International Computer Security Association's testing labs: <http://www.icsa.net>. The SmartFilter data sheet is at: http://www.securecomputing.com/P_Tool_SF_Docs.html and there is a white paper at: http://www.securecomputing.com/sfwhitep.pdf SCC provides SmartFilter access controls adapted for both Unix and Windows NT, as well as for the Microsoft Proxy Server, the Netscape Proxy Server, several firewalls, the CSM Proxy Server, the NetCache Proxy Server, and the Squid Proxy Server. Feliz Navidad, _Vin ------- original message ----------------- > From: privacy(a)vortex.com [SMTP:privacy@vortex.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 1998 4:58 PM > To: PRIVACY-Forum-List(a)vortex.com > Subject: PRIVACY Forum Digest V07 #21 > > PRIVACY Forum Digest Sunday, 20 December 1998 Volume 07 : Issue > 21 > [...] > > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 98 12:25 PST > From: lauren(a)vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein; PRIVACY Forum Moderator) > Subject: Privacy Discussions Classified as a "Criminal Skill" > > Greetings. Is discussing privacy in the PRIVACY Forum a criminal skill? > According to one widely used commercial web filtering tool, the answer was > yes! The controversy over software to block access to particular sites, > based on perceived content, has been continuing to rage. Attempts to > mandate the use of such software in environments such as libraries and > schools have raised a variety of serious concerns. In addition to fairly > straightforward freedom of speech issues, another factor revolves around > how accurate (or inaccurate) these filtering systems really are. > > I've now seen firsthand that errors by a filtering system can indeed be quite > serious, an event that seems to certainly validate some of these concerns. > But there is something of a silver lining to the story, as we'll see > later. > > I recently was contacted by someone at a large corporation, who was trying > to reach the PRIVACY Forum web site, which is constantly being referenced by > individuals and commercial, educational, government, and other sites around > the world. This person was upset since whenever they attempted to reach > the http://www.vortex.com site and domain that hosts the PRIVACY Forum, > their web software blocked them, informing them that the block was in place > due to the site being categorized as containing "criminal skills." > > As the webmaster for the vortex.com domain, this certainly came as news to > me. The message they received didn't give additional information--they > didn't even know exactly where it came from. It was apparent though, that > the entire organization was probably blocked from reaching the PRIVACY > Forum, since the filtering software in question was affecting a main > firewall system. > > After a number of phone calls and discussions with the system administrator > for that organization, the details began to emerge. The company was running > a filtering software package from Secure Computing Corporation of San Jose, > California. This package received weekly updates of blocked sites in a wide > variety of categories, one of which was "criminal skills." > > The administrator had no idea what rationale was used for these decisions, > they just pulled in the list each week and applied it. He immediately placed > vortex.com on a local exception list so that it would no longer be blocked to > their users. > > I then turned my attention to Secure Computing. After a number of calls, I > found myself speaking with Ken Montgomery, director of corporate > communications for that firm. He confirmed the information I had already > received. The filtering product in question ("SmartFilter") was apparently > not being marketed to individuals, rather, it was sold to institutions, > corporations, etc. to enforce filtering policies across entire entities. > The product covers a wide range of information categories that users of the > software can choose to block. He said that the majority of blocked sites > were in categories involving pornography, where there was (in his opinion) > no question of their not belonging there. > > The "criminal skills" category reportedly was broadly defined to cover > information that might be "of use" to criminals (e.g. how to build bombs). > He had no explanation as to why my domain had been placed in that list, > since by no stretch could any materials that are or have ever been > there fall into such a categorization. He did discover that the > classification of my domain had occurred over a year ago (meaning > other sites could have been receiving similar blocking messages for > that period of time when trying to access the PRIVACY Forum) and > that the parties who had made the original classification were no longer > with their firm--so there was no way to ask them for their rationale. > (All of their classifications are apparently made by people, not > by an automated system.) > > However, it seems likely that the mere mentioning of encryption may have > been enough to trigger the classification. The administrator at the > organization that had originally contacted me about the blocked access, told > me that the main reason they included the "criminal skills" category in > their site blocking list was to try prevent their users from downloading > "unapproved" encryption software. This was a type of information that he > believed to be included under the Secure Computing "criminal skills" > category (the "logic" being, obviously, that since criminals can use > encryption to further their efforts, encryption is a criminal skill). He > also admitted that he knew that their users could still easily obtain > whatever encryption software they wanted anyway, but he had to enforce the > company policy to include that category in their blocking list. > > As PRIVACY Forum readers may know, no encryption software is or ever has > been distributed from here. The topic of encryption issues does certainly > come up from time to time, as would be expected. For the mere *mention* of > encryption in a discussion forum to trigger such a negative categorization > would seem to suggest the fallacy of blindly trusting such classification > efforts. > > Mr. Montgomery of Secure Computing initially suggested that it was up to > their customers to decide which categories they wanted to use in their own > blocking lists -- he also stated that as a company they were opposed to > mandatory filtering regulations. I suggested that such determinations by > their customers were meaningless if the quality of the entries in those > categories could not be trusted and if errors of this severity could so > easily be made. I felt that this was particularly true of a category with > an obviously derogatory nature such as "criminal skills"--the ramifications > of being incorrectly placed into such a category, and then to not even > *know* about it for an extended period of time, could be extreme and very > serious. > > To their credit, my argument apparently triggered a serious discussion > within Secure Computing about these issues. I had numerous subsequent > e-mail and some additional phone contacts with Mr. Montgomery and others > in their firm concerning these matters. First off, they apologized > for the miscategorization of vortex.com, and removed it from the > "criminal skills" category (it was apparently never listed in any > other of their categories). > > Secondly, they have agreed with my concerns about the dangers of such > miscategorizations occurring without any mechanism being present for sites > to learn of such problems or having a way to deal with them. So, they will > shortly be announcing a web-based method for sites to interrogate the Secure > Computing database to determine which categories (if any) they've been > listed under, and will provide a means for sites to complain if they feel > that they have been misclassified. They've also suggested that their hope > is to provide a rapid turnaround on consideration of such complaints. > > While by no means perfect, this is a step forward. I would prefer a more > active notification system, where sites would be notified directly when > categorizations are made. This would avoid their having to > check to see whether or not they've been listed, and needing to keep > checking back to watch for any changes or new categorizations. If more > filtering software companies adopt the Secure Computing approach, there > would be a lot of checking for sites to do if they wanted to stay on > top of these matters. Secure Computing feels that such notifications are > not practical at this time. However, their move to provide some > accountability to their filtering classifications is certainly preferable > to > the filtering systems which continue to provide no such facilities and > operate in a completely closed environment. > > So, we make a little progress. The PRIVACY Forum and vortex.com are no > longer miscategorized and have been removed from all Secure Computing block > lists. Secure Computing was polite and responsive in their > communications with me, and will establish the system discussed above in > reaction to my concerns. Web filtering of course remains a highly > controversial topic with many serious negative aspects, but we see that when > it comes to dealing with the complex issues involved, it would be a mistake > to assume that all such filters all created equal. > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein > Moderator, PRIVACY Forum > http://www.vortex.com > [...] ----- "Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege." _ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto _vbm. * Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + <vin(a)shore.net> * 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548 --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0

I want to spam the Jury Duty information
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors rights and jury nullification. Anyone thinks that it is a good idea?

2 1

Suggested reading
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Iron Cavalry Ralph Zumbro ISBN 0-671-01390-4 $6.99 US Note especialy the last chapter, "Puma Force". ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Assault on Civil Liberties
by DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

<http://www.sjmercury.com/columnists/gillmor/docs/dg121398.htm> "Civil liberties and privacy grew more tenuous. The Clinton administration maintained its record of utter unfriendliness toward the Bill of Rights as it applies to technology. The administration's hard-line stand on encryption, the scrambling of data to keep it away from prying eyes, shows no signs of moderation. And the administration pursued the absurd notion, which flies utterly in the face of reality, that private businesses can regulate themselves in ways that protect consumers' privacy."

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What's up with C2 and SSL?
by jim finder 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Would someone mind explaining the background of this dispute? I've seen posted several vague accusations that imply that (depending on the poster) either Sameer or Ben have acted badly and unwisely in some way, and that at least one of them has a "bad track record" with open source software. I don't have enough information to judge, which I expect is also the case for many other readers here. Could someone please lay out exactly what this bad track record is, and what was wrong with Sameer and Ben's announcements? Otherwise we all just have to guess what is going on here. Also, what happened with SSLeay? Either that, or stop making public accusations. Jim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Re: I want to spam the Jury Duty information
by Eric Murray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anonymous writes: > I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming > will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors > rights and jury nullification. > > Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? No, it's a bad idea. The ends do not justify the means. -- Eric Murray N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5

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by user3847＠blue.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you should also put something in there to educate the masses about how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good idea.

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JFK
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"The basis of effective government is public confidence, and that confidence is endangered when ethical standards falter or appear to falter." - JFK

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Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9812/23/BC-Norway-NameLaws.ap/ > Mother of 14 jailed for violating Norway's baby-name law > > December 23, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:52 AM EST (1452 GMT) > > > OSLO, Norway (AP) -- A mother of 14 was jailed this week because she > refused to change the name she picked for her young son, even though > that violated Norway's name law. > > Kirsti Larsen, 46, told the Verdens Gang newspaper that she named her > son Gesher after she dreamed the child should be named "bridge." > Gesher means bridge in Hebrew. > > Norway has strict laws regulating names, including lists of acceptable > first and last names. In 1995, Larsen tried to register her son's name > as Gesher at her local county office, which rejected the choice as > illegal. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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by ASCOLI63＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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HUGE FORBIDDEN INFORMATION LIBRARY
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17 Dec '03

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It's Christmas Time
by rivers＠twistedtunes.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Twisted Tunes fans! Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com We are stepping up our production schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added. If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store is stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer. As always, thanks for your support... Bob Rivers PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest. What do I got to do to prove it to you?

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It's Christmas Time
by rivers＠twistedtunes.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Twisted Tunes fans! Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com We are stepping up our production schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added. If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store is stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer. As always, thanks for your support... Bob Rivers PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest. What do I got to do to prove it to you?

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Re: EAY, SSLeay, and Open Source (Re: [ssl-users] Re: C2Net announces OpenSSL Project)
by Soren 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back wrote: > This is confusing, several people have alluded that there will be no > future versions of SSLeay from Eric and friends. Would someone in the > know care to divulge the goods: why is this? > > Has Eric suffered an accident? Been incarcerated by the Australian > spooks in retaliation for major contributions to crypto deployment? > Has he been bought out by the dark side (say microsoft?). Had a major > change of philosophy regarding open source? EAY was amongst the > "least likely to go closed source" I thought. > > What gives? I seem to to recall sometime ago when he was being pressured by the Oz Gubmint, and decided that going corporate was a decent way out. From what I recall, he ended up on the RSA payroll. Sayonara buggy freeware.

1 0

Sammerseers Theft of Ben lauries Intellectual Property(i.e.apache
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net cc: Subject: Sameers ande C2 Nets Appropriation of Apache-SSL(Bens Code) -------- For the clueless or history deficient C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases a mod_ssl.c of his design... result?? C2's business worlwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc) so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project (mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...) I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly) how about it Sameer are you now going to Sue the Mix network:) ? the turds in Sameers Swimming pool p.s. to the clueless Jim Finder..Happy now asshole...? BTW I will post when and where I feel like !

2 1

Forwarded mail...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:50:34 -0600 (CST) > From: Missouri FreeNet Administration <measl(a)mfn.org> > Subject: Re: I must admit. . . > On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Reeza! finally got to the point of the matter: > > <massive snip> > :, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one > :expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of > :enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country. > > I believe this is the the only true argument here. The US (and you) are > not "pleased" with the fact that the one place on the planet that has the > worlds largest oil deposits is not beholden to the USG. Actualy there are equivalent oil and gas deposits in SE Asia and Antartica. But they doesn't belong to the USG either. Of course the point is valid. Though it almost begs the question of why in such a situation there is not a more powerful search for alternatives. There are actualy very few technologies that care whether oil or gas is used in energy production or some entirely different process. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

3 2

and justice for all but the Goldmans and Jones
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:09 AM 12/24/98 -0800, Eric Murray wrote: >Anonymous writes: > >> I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming >> will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors >> rights and jury nullification. >> >> Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? > >No, it's a bad idea. The ends do not justify the means. > The ends: justice. The means: a common abuse, which perchance should be illegal like junkfax, but isn't. The means: in the late 90s the people had the chance, for a few years, before the XC Massacre, to publish without convincing corporations. Do the math.

1 0

land of the free
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:24 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you >should also put something in there to educate the masses about >how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good >idea. Trouble and expense of what? If you refer to the FIJA spamming, then you will simply confuse the sheeple with too many issues.

1 0

spamactivism
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:07 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming >will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors >rights and jury nullification. > >Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? Education can only be for the good. Got an anonymous ecash account of some sort? In either case, kudos.

2 1

Re: Sammers eers Theft of Ben lauries Intellectual
by jim finder 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anonymous writes: >For the clueless or history deficient > >C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation >Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then >had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl >for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases >a mod_ssl.c of his design... result?? >C2's business worlwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc) >so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project >(mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future >verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...) >I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it >again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly) >how about it Sameer are you now going to Sue the Mix network:) ? > > the turds in Sameers Swimming pool >p.s. to the clueless Jim Finder..Happy now asshole...? No, I'm afraid I'm not. Could you offer either verifiable evidence of the above, or at least back up your accusation by signing your name? Either would be better than making an anonymous accusation that we have no way to verify. I'm sorry I wasn't privy to what ever went on behind the scene between C2NET, Ben, Ralf, Eric, etc., but I think I speak for most readers when I admit that I wasn't. Ben made a serious accusation that an important member of the open sources and crypto community has a hidden agenda to subvert the availability of open source crypto code. If it is false, let this stop. If it's true, then let's shout it far and wide, and deny them the support of the community. Anonymous and unverifiable accusations advance neither case All I've seen so far is Ben and Sameer throwing shit at each other, egged on by anonymous flamers, without anymone bothering to provider enough information for an outsider to decide how much of it should stick. Right now, all I can conclude is that there is plenty of shit to go around. Ben, would you please spell out your side of the story, and Sameer, would you do likewise so that we can figure this out? Anonymous, put up or shut up. Jim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

4 3

mysterious PGP release-signing keys
by Dave Del Torto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Please excuse the crosspost, but does anyone know *who* generated and/or owns these keys? 0xBB1EEF1B Verify 0xC8501551 Verify Key for http://www.arc.unm.edu/~drosoff/* 0xAA9AE13F Verify PGP 6.0.2 PP - RSA 0x772B7382 VERIFY <VERIFY(a)gnwmail.com> They seem to be used for signing/verifying PGP releases (e.g. the 602 by CKT at Replay), but there's nothing on the keys that identifies the responsible engineer who compiled the source, nor do some of them seem to be certified by anyone in the WoT. Questions have been raised about the authenticity and security of those compiles and these keys. dave -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 Comment: Get interested in computers -- they're interested in YOU! iQA/AwUBNn11mJBN/qMowCmvEQI4IwCfad0S9Algw7PPDsgWChimC4Cx6dcAnjtu h2trwMi08tJMCD76W6W8DP/L =TFuT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

3 3

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17 Dec '03

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Re: Membership (One user says:)
by John Baskind 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[long and acrimonious discussion, at present ending with this message, clipped] > Let's recall that once this ``situation'' is resolved, the list of > volunteer members/coders will likely increase. Many, I'm sure, myself > included, have held back. I am following this discussion with some alarm, and I am sure that many others who rely on everyone involved in this acrimony to keep our sites running are too. I think competition is very important, and the sort of internal competition you lot are involved in is crucial to the continued speedy evolution of the critical software you are making ( for us users, please be reminded). Those who rely on your skills and expertise--in other words, the vast majority of Apache users, which means, apparently, some 50% of the active Web at this point, NEED you, all of you, as a group. to continue to share your brains and their collective product, with us. Because the vast majority of us couldn't do what you do if our lives depended on it. I use mod_ssl, purely because it seemed easier to install and compile than Apache_SSL, and I really like Ralf's installation notes, not because I formed any judgement about the relative excellence of mod_ssl over Apache_SSL. I am not capable of making that judgement--I rely on YOUR assessments! I really don't care if it actually is easier to install or not; --from my point of view, I honor Tim Hudson and Ben Laurie, Ralf Engelschall and all the less public members of the Apache Group equally. Each of you contributes in a different way to make my life, and therefore livelihood, simpler and more pleasant. Part of my skill set is political consulting--if there's anything I've learned, it is that mud not only sticks to both the flinger and flingee, but also clouds all the subsequent issues between both parties to a remarkably large degree.

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It's Christmast Time
by rivers＠twistedtunes.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Twisted Tunes fans! Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com We are stepping up our production schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added. If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store is stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer. As always, thanks for your support... Bob Rivers PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest. What do I got to do to prove it to you?

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It's Christmast Time
by rivers＠twistedtunes.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Twisted Tunes fans! Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com We are stepping up our production schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added. If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store is stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer. As always, thanks for your support... Bob Rivers PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest. What do I got to do to prove it to you?

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I want to spam the Jury Duty information
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you should also put something in there to educate the masses about how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good idea.

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OpenSSL
by Jack Rusher 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>I'm familiar with some background and some of the issues. Unfortunately, >what we are faced with is the idea that one group wants to "own" the >concept of an Open SSL project. This is certainly not the way to start >a successful, open source, group-based project. Hey, everybody, here is a novel idea: Why don't we look at this as a great opportunity to make some really good free software that will make all of our lives easier. It is time for the free SSL implementation to move into a larger (and more continously updated) group project. OpenSSL is a great idea, a great name for the idea, and it is the right time to do it. So, how about we stop looking at this as a pissing contest between some strong personalities? There are alot of talented developers on this list, and I think that we would all be better off working together than turning into a bunch of bitter, petty, ego driven camps that are primarily concerned with proving how large their genitals are. What I am trying to say is, if (for instance) Ben and Ralph would like to sit down for a pint and make nice with one another, I am buying. Name the pub, in the neutral country of your choice, and we are there. ;-) j.

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OpenSSL (whoever picks up the banner) Yeah!!
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com cc: Subject: Open Source separate from the Crypto export battle -------- Happy What ever to you all ! gee Anonymous... you seem to be quite angry... or a feeble provacateurs attempt to cause division in the ranks(Infowar Level 1 perhaps??) (as if there wasnt enough already...) I think its vitally important to recognize Sameers and C2Nets contribution to fighting against both the US bullshit export laws and to good quality cryptographic software... Stronghold while NOT open source has been a vital and much appreciated part of the battle against the eavesdroppers at the NSA/Interpol/GCHQ etc. I am however somewhat guarded about how Open Source OpenSSL will remain. For example will competitors to C2net be able to use it without licensing or fees to C2net in some form..? I would also like to thank Ben Laurie for making the patches available. A lot of sites run these worldwide. I sincerely wish the anonymous flamers would cease and desist you are contributing as much garbage as the average spammer to these lists If people dont make a profit from crypto activities... then there wont be any crypto... Again Sameer thanx for all you have done.. Seasons greetings Anon.

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No Subject
by rcballen＠mindspring.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

GAY

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I want to spam the Jury Duty information
by HyperReal-Anon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you >should also put something in there to educate the masses about >how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good >idea. And while we're being hypocritical and stealing (oh, it's okay because it's for "education"), maybe we ought to educate about why spam is bad, and how crypto may help end spam. Right. About the only thing you people are going to accomplish is to alienate anybody who might care what you have to say. While you're spamming, maybe you can even make the Cypherpunks look really bad. Hell, go ahead and put the list address as the "From" address. It will shut down the list, make us look like idiots, and accomplish very little, but it's for a good cause. After all, the ends always justify the means. When the USG wants to storm your home with a squad of ninjas, that's okay, so long as they're checking for drugs or other evil things. Since it will keep us all safe, let's eliminate privacy rights. The idea of spamming for "educational purposes" is the most obscene and stupid I've heard on this list in a while. Both of you read "The Prince" one too many times.

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Ecstasy, The means & the way to a true orgasm!
by bettyrubble＠193.230.240.21 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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