December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.
by Tyler Durden 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

Well, again you've WAY oversimplified things. Indeed, this oversimplification is curiously identical to US foregin policy mistakes. Ho Chi Min, like Mao, would take guns from anybody in order to get the job done. If that meant wearing a Soviet uniform for 15 minutes, then sobeit. Don't mistake that for Eastern-European-style Soviet block "governments". Was Ho Chi Min ultimately a dictator? Sure. A Soviet-style dictator? Well, I'd argue only nominally. I'd also argue that our post World … [View More]War II betrayal of Ho had a lot to do with shoving him into the arms of the Soviets, just like with Mao. (But in neither case did the association stick.) The important notion is that, unlike in Europe, China and Vietnam never had anything resembling a democracy or Parliament or anything like that. They were still largely fuedal, agrarian societies that weren't really in a position to critically evaluate the implications of Soviet-style rulership (and in fact they probably viewed it as being merely a non-Monarchic version of what they'd always done). BUT...the Soviets were providing guns and money and we weren't. That both countries were really only externally Stalinst for a brief while (ie, a couple of decades) is evidenced by the fact that both economies are as about, in SOME ways, as free-wheeling and as capitalistic as exists these days. Of course, both are still certainly authoritarian and, depending on the subject, oppressive, but this has nothing to do with their politico-economic stance per se, as is now obvious. In other words, the moral of this story is that you can't merely graft on a western political philosophy--in this case Marxism--to cultures that have unbroken traditions dating back to the stone age. It may look 'Marxist' on the outside, but internally that transplant ain't going to take root. That US foreign policy in the far east in in Indo-China during most decades of the 20th century was a complete disaster was precisely due to the views you seem to hold. It's why we didn't back Mao when even though it was obvious BILLIONS of dollars were being siphoned away by Soong Tse-Vung and the Chiang regime...it's why we backed Lon Nol to overthrow Sihounouk (bringing in the Khmer rouge), and it's why we didn't back Ho even though he fought with us against the Japanese. Had we stood back from our prejudices, respected the soverignity of those nations, engaged and offered some guns in order for them to choose their OWN government, I'd bet the era of Soviet-style government in both China and Vietnam would have been much shorter, and in Cambodia it would have CERTAINLY never existed. In other words, YOU (and people with beliefs just like yours in the US government) are responsible for the spread of communism in the far east. Now you and your friends (including, I suspect, the guy who signs your paycheck) are going to do the same thing in the near east: you're going to force many ostensibly neutral nations into the Fundamentalist Islamic camp, because you just don't get it, and think we have the right to interfere. "Well, the Soviets did it and the liberal left said it was great, so that makes it right." Forget it. Stop saying this crap and use that brain. 9/11 sucked enough in this town...we don't need another. -TD >From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)minder.net >Subject: Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam. >Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:35:39 -0800 > > -- >On 22 Dec 2003 at 22:02, Tyler Durden wrote: > > If you think Ho Chi Minh was a KGB sockpuppet then you really > > don't know anything about Vietnam, China, or East Asian > > history. > >He was not a KGB sock puppet. He was KGB. > >The indochinese communist party was run from a desk in Moscow, >and the guy behind that desk in Moscow was one Ho Chi Minh. > > > --digsig > James A. Donald > 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG > tUqRWDkYAq3CLoQkZ14K0qF1d7QxbWlf6d2ZXjZs > 43Qc8nduD4tJh6uumE28HC7EsKfnNFvnGEYCCH0BO _________________________________________________________________ Have fun customizing MSN Messenger learn how here! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize [View Less]

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[IP] Tracking devices required for hassle-free travel? (fwd from dave@farber.net)
by Eugen Leitl 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

----- Forwarded message from Dave Farber <dave(a)farber.net> -----

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Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.
by Tyler Durden 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

James Donald wrote... "They were supposedly supporters of the NLF, which they well knew was a North Vietnamese sock puppet, and thus a KGB sock puppet. " Uh...huh? You really get a lot of things mixed up. If you think Ho Chi Minh was a KGB sockpuppet then you really don't know anything about Vietnam, China, or East Asian history. Think of Ho Chi Min as, utlimately, a violent pragmatist...he was going to get his guns from whoever he could, and that's what he did. He also had Chinese guns … [View More]and, during WWII, American guns (yes: We were allied with Ho Chi Minh against the Japanese during WWII). Likewise, you accused Saddam Hussein of being allied with bin Laden, which is also silly. In fact, bin Laden has regularly called for Saddam's death, and I see no reason to believe he wasn't serious. Likewise, your lambasting of Chomsky on the "Chomsky Dis" website also indicates huge and suspicious gaps in knowledge. I'm starting to connect the dots here: I dare you to read the name that signs your paycheck. -TD >From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam. >Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:14:20 -0800 > > -- >On 22 Dec 2003 at 1:10, Tim May wrote: > > I, and many others, were against the war in Vietnam without > > being supporters of Ho Chi Minh or the Soviets or anyone of > > that ilk > >True, but amongst the vast mass chanting Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, >one could no more discern principled opponents of the Vietnam >war, than one can today discern principled opponents of the >Iraqi war among the Americans worrying about poor little >victimized Saddam, and the mass of Europeans jumping for joy >over the fall of the two towers. > >Amidst the pro Saddam posters on this thread, many have come >rather close to chanting "Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh" -- for the >example the argument that the evil CIA deprived the third world >masses of their beloved socialism provided by benevolent >dictators, and the argument that the US "created' the Afghan >resistance -- and thus presumably every other resistance >movement against the Soviets. > > > Essentially _none_ of them were supporters of the Soviets or > > the North Vietnamese qua North Vietnamese.) > >Now I get to call you the pinko: > >They were supposedly supporters of the NLF, which they well >knew was a North Vietnamese sock puppet, and thus a KGB sock >puppet. And when that sock puppet was discarded to reveal the >iron fist of the NVA that had been moving its lips, none of >them were surprised or dismayed. Similarly Jane Fonda was >supposedly not a supporter of the North Vietnamese qua North >Vietnamese, yet without hesitation she lied about the condition >and treatment of the POWs she met, whom she depicted as >leniently treated war criminals. When some of those she lied >about returned home to speak the truth, she stuck to her >position, counter attacking them as hypocrites and liars, >denying that they had shown signs of starvation and torture. > >I find it strange that the speakers at your rally were so >remarkably different from the speakers at my rally -- >particularly when so many of the pro Saddam posters in this >thread sound like they are new nyms for the same people who >spoke at my rally. > >If any of your speakers really thought the NLF was something >other than a KGB sock puppet, they would have had posters of >the supposed NLF leader on their wall. Instead, not one of >these supposed supporters of the NLF blinked when the most of >the NLF vanished in the 1975 purge. > > > --digsig > James A. Donald > 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG > vgi7SNuqDzYgX5I5Cmd4QPW+QLDM2w78B+RO1o8f > 4oxwhPbCXdnYRp30H5XOTLwLfzQyCsQo15VgpDWYW _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com [View Less]

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Trusted Computing = Kevlar Doors
by Major Variola (ret.) 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

When the Trust Computing Worm (tm) comes out, will anyone recognize it as a version of the jihadist pilot who uses the impenetrable aircraft door? Just wondering. And doesn't Tom Ridge look great in Orange?

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Humiliating the Conquered, Part II
by Eric Cordian 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

If you think it was embarrassing for the former regime in Iraq to see their fearless leader getting a public louse inspection, just wait until Christmas, when America again demonstrates it can walk the streets of Baghdad with impunity. Yesterday, the crew of WWE Smackdown arrived in Baghdad to set up for their special Christmas broadcast of Smackdown! "Live from Baghdad." "The Smackdown crew with Steve Austin arrived yesterday in Baghdad at the 28th U.S. Military Combat Support Hospital … [View More]

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by Tarapia Tapioco 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

Harmon Seaver wrote: > > This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq. > > We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism. > > No we don't. We only know what the propaganda mills have told us. > Twenty years ago it was a different story. The propaganda mills were working for Saddam, not against him. <http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/04/1599076.php> "Over the last dozen years I made 13 trips to Baghdad to lobby the government to keep CNN's … [View More]

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UN using Satellite Photos to track Israeli Apartheid Wall
by Bill Stewart 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3334235.stm It's fun what you can do with satellite images. The UN's using them to track the progress of the apartheid wall that Israel's building to "keep Palestinian suicide bombers out". They haven't been all that careful about whose land they're excluding.

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Cypherpunks List Info
by cpunk＠lne.com 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

Cypherpunks Mailing List Information Last updated: Oct 13, 2003 This message is also available at http://www.lne.com/cpunk Instructions on unsubscribing from the list can be found below. 0. Introduction The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society. It is not a moderated list (but see exceptions below) and the list operators are not responsible for the list content. Cypherpunks is a distributed mailing list. A subscriber can … [View More]subscribe to one node of the list and thereby participate on the full list. Each node (called a "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer", although they are not related to anonymous remailers) exchanges messages with the other nodes in addition to sending messages to its subscribers. A message posted to one node will be received by the list subscribers on the other nodes, and vice-versa. 1. 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Info: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pro-ns: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)pro-ns.net Filtering policy: cooked Posts from all CDR subscribers & replies to threads go to local CDR subscribers. All posts from other CDRs are forwarded to other CDRs unmodified. Message Modification policy: 1. leading "CDR:" in subject line removed 2. "Reply-to:" removed Privacy policy: private Info: http://www.pro-ns.net/cpunk [View Less]

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Give us at least 3 Nyms
by Major Variola (ret.) 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

. We had to get very disciplined and accept nothing less than three names." A major obstacle was simply gathering the names correctly, considering that many Arabs have four proper names, including family and tribal surnames http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-tribalcode21dec21,1,4576…

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Indications Saddam Was Not in Hiding But a Captive
by Michael Kalus 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 http://www.debka.com/article_print.php?aid=743 Indications Saddam Was Not in Hiding But a Captive DEBKAfile Special Report December 14, 2003, 6:55 PM (GMT+02:00) A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13: 1. The length and state of his hair indicated he had not seen a barber or … [View More]even had a shampoo for several weeks. 2. The wild state of his beard indicated he had not shaved for the same period 3. The hole dug in the floor of a cellar in a farm compound near Tikrit was primitive indeed b 6ft across and 8ft across with minimal sanitary arrangements - a far cry from his opulent palaces. 4. Saddam looked beaten and hungry. 5. Detained trying to escape were two unidentified men. Left with him were two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used. 6. The hole had only one opening. It was not only camouflaged with mud and bricks b it was blocked. He could not have climbed out without someone on the outside removing the covering. 7. And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him (a pittance for his captors who expected a $25m reward)b but no communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world. According to DEBKAfile analysts, these seven anomalies point to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein was not in hiding; he was a prisoner. After his last audiotaped message was delivered and aired over al Arabiya TV on Sunday November 16, on the occasion of Ramadan, Saddam was seized, possibly with the connivance of his own men, and held in that hole in Adwar for three weeks or more, which would have accounted for his appearance and condition. Meanwhile, his captors bargained for the $25 m prize the Americans promised for information leading to his capture alive or dead. The negotiations were mediated by Jalal Talabanibs Kurdish PUK militia. These circumstances would explain the ex-rulerbs docility b described by Lt.Gen. Ricardo Sanchez as b resignationb b in the face of his capture by US forces. He must have regarded them as his rescuers and would have greeted them with relief. From Gen. Sanchezbs evasive answers to questions on the $25m bounty, it may be inferred that the Americans and Kurds took advantage of the negotiations with Saddambs abductors to move in close and capture him on their own account, for three reasons: A. His capture had become a matter of national pride for the Americans. No kudos would have been attached to his handover by a local gang of bounty-seekers or criminals. The country would have been swept anew with rumors that the big hero Saddam was again betrayed by the people he trusted, just as in the war. B. It was vital to catch his kidnappers unawares so as to make sure Saddam was taken alive. They might well have killed him and demanded the prize for his body. But they made sure he had no means of taking his own life and may have kept him sedated. C. During the weeks he is presumed to have been in captivity, guerrilla activity declined markedly b especially in the Sunni Triangle towns of Falluja, Ramadi and Balad - while surging outside this flashpoint region b in Mosul in the north and Najef, Nasseriya and Hilla in the south. It was important for the coalition to lay hands on him before the epicenter of the violence turned back towards Baghdad and the center of the Sunni Triangle. The next thing to watch now is not just where and when Saddam is brought to justice for countless crimes against his people and humanity - - Sanchez said his interrogation will take b as long as it takes b but what happens to the insurgency. Will it escalate or gradually die down? An answer to this, according to DEBKAfilebs counter-terror sources, was received in Washington nine days before Saddam reached US custody. It came in the form of a disturbing piece of intelligence that the notorious Lebanese terrorist and hostage-taker Imad Mughniyeh, who figures on the most wanted list of 22 men published by the FBI after 9/11, had arrived in southern Iraq and was organizing a new anti-US terror campaign to be launched in March-April 2004, marking the first year of the American invasion. For the past 21 years, Mughniyeh has waged a war of terror against Americans, whether on behalf of the Hizballah, the Iranian Shiite fundamentalists, al Qaeda or for himself. The Lebanese arch-terrorist represents for the anti-American forces in Iraq an ultimate weapon. Saddambs capture will not turn this offensive aside; it may even bring it forward. For Israel, there are three lessons to be drawn from the dramatic turn of events in Iraq: First, An enemy must be pursued to the end and if necessary taken captive. The Sharon governmentbs conduct of an uncertain, wavering war against the Palestinian terror chief Yasser Arafat stands in stark contrast to the way the Americans have fought Saddam and his cohorts in Iraq and which has brought them impressive gains. Second, Israel must join the US in bracing for the decisive round of violence under preparation by Mughniyeh, an old common enemy from the days of Beirut in the 1980s. Only three weeks ago, DEBKAfilebs military sources reveal, the terrorist mastermind himself was seen in south Lebanon in surveillance of northern Israel in the company of Iranian military officers. With this peril still to be fought, it is meaningless for Israelis to dicker over the Geneva Accord, unilateral steps around the Middle East road map, or even the defensive barrier. Third, Certain Israeli pundits and even politicians, influenced by opinion in Europe, declared frequently in recent weeks that the Americans had no hope of capturing Saddam Hussein and were therefore bogged down irretrievably in Iraq. The inference was that the Americans erred in embarking on an unwinnable war in Iraq. This was wide of the mark even before Saddam was brought in. The Americans are in firm control - even though they face a tough new adversary b and the whole purpose of the defeatist argument heard in Israel was to persuade the Sharon government that its position in relation to the Palestinians and Yasser Arafat is as hopeless as that of the Americans in Iraq. Israelbs only choice, according to this argument, is to knuckle under to Palestinian demands and give them what they want. Now that the Iraqi ruler is in American custody, they will have to think again. b14 December Commander of US ground forces in Iraq, Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, said at the dramatic news conference in Baghdad (Bremer: We Got him!), that Saddam Hussein was discovered in a b spider holeb 6-8ft deep behind a mud hut in a walled farm compound in Adwar, a town 15 km from Tikrit, eight months after his regime was toppled. His capture was achieved without a shot fired and no injuries. He was emaciated, tired and unkempt and had grown a gray beard. The initial medical examination was videotaped and aired. He was then shaved for identification. Found with him were two AK-47 assault rifles and $750,000. Two associates were detained with him. A ventilator enabled them to stay underground. The hole in which Saddam was hiding was camouflaged with bricks and dirt. Operation b Red Dawnb was carried by 4th Infantry Division and coalition special forces b 600 men. It was made possible by a great deal of human intelligence and the interrogation of captives. Gen. Sanchez reported the deposed Iraqi ruler, discovered Saturday, December 13, at 8.30 pm local time, showed no resistance and appeared resigned to his fate. He was b talkative and cooperativeb while being taken to a secure place. The interrogation will b take as long as it takes.b US administrator Paul Bremer called on the Iraqi people to turn to reconciliation and Saddambs followers to lay down their arms. US troops poured into Baghdad and blocked the road-bridges into the capital as soon as word spread, in anticipation of violence from Saddam fedayeen or foreign terrorists fighting the US-led coalition presence. Baghdadis fired guns in the air to celebrate the capture of the man who ruled the country with an iron fist for 23 years. Kurdish and Shiite towns filled with dancing and jubilation. Iraq officials demand Saddam be handed over to the new Iraqi war crimes tribunal to be judged for the murder of 300,000 Iraqis. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0.3 iQA/AwUBP+ZImGlCnxcrW2uuEQJeCQCfT2ADo3h8UQBJTwaP8F0OkX3OJ0YAnjHn AaAM+czY70SpxOgvVfauZvuD =SId2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- [View Less]

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Re: I am anti war. Yawn.
by Major Variola (ret) 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

At 05:41 PM 12/20/03 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: > >Anyone who wants to argue that the guys in the two towers had >it coming, "Collateral damage". The workers at say a WWII refinery did not directly do evil to anyone. Still, they were killed, because of where they were. Bummer, eh? Sleep with dogs.. Better put some ice on that, bub.

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Mitnick wants war stories
by Tim Meehan 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

This sounds like a very interesting project! -Tim http://news.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020330,39118685,00.htm Mitnick calls for hackers' war stories Patrick Gray ZDNet Australia December 19, 2003, 10:40 GMT Notorious hacker Kevin Mitnick is collating tales of hackers' 'art' into a book Famed hacker and master social engineer Kevin Mitnick has been commissioned to write a new book following the success of his first text The Art of Deception. The new book, tentatively titled The Art of … [View More]Intrusion will tell the stories of real hacks, with the names of attackers obscured to protect them from the authorities and their victims. Mitnick has called on retired hackers to come forward with their stories, offering a $500 (#283) prize for the best story that makes it into the book, and a $200 payment for all stories that make the final draft. "I'm going to tell the true stories of some of the untold most salacious hacks in cyberspace. The sexy, the ingenious, the innovative and the clever," he told ZDNet Australia by phone from the US "The stories are not going to be the same attack vector or the same class of vulnerability. I'm looking for stories that will include a variety of attack methods exploiting physical, operational, network host, and personnel security vulnerabilities." Fame found Kevin Mitnick when the US government made an example of him, incarcerating him for five years for computer based offences. Four of his years inside were served before he was even tried, and he was forced to endure eight months in solitary confinement because "the government said I could start a nuclear war if I had access to a telephone," Mitnick says. In trouble with the law for technological mischief since 1982, Mitnick became a fugitive in January 1993 when he skipped town after authorities sought to question him about a possible parole violation. During that time he used various aliases, including Eric Weiss -- Harry Houdini's real name -- and worked several jobs, including a stint as a systems administrator at a law firm. He was captured in 1995 by the FBI after two years on the run. The hunt for Mitnick and his subsequent capture were dramatised in the novel Takedown, which was subsequently turned into a movie of the same name. The book was written by Mitnick's rival and security professional Tsutomu Shimomura, and co-authored by New York Times journalist John Markoff. Shimomura assisted the FBI in tracking Mitnick, who launched a scathing attack on the Takedown account of events in a chapter of his last book that was never published. Mitnick was released from custody into supervised release in early 2000. The conditions of his release meant he was not allowed to use a computer. When it came time to write his book, however, the government was flexible. "The government had given me permission to obtain a computer prior to my supervised release expiring. I wasn't permitted to use the Internet but I did use a computer to do the last book. It was more difficult... I had to actually send a floppy disk to my co-author, that's how we traded material -- by physical postal mail," Mitnick explained. "But now these restrictions have been lifted I think it's really going to increase our productivity now we can use this marvellous thing called email." The terms of Mitnick's supervised release were lifted in January this year. As well as being able to use the Internet again, Mitnick has been able to leave the US -- a luxury not afforded to him while under the conditions of his release agreement. "Lately I've been travelling all around the world, I've been to Brazil -- I just got back from Portugal. I've been in the Czech Republic, Poland, Spain, Helsinki [in] Finland -- which is kind of funny because Nokia mobile phones, one of our prior victims, actually sponsored my talk which is great. They've been forgiving," he said. Conceding his notoriety is at least in part responsible for his "reversal of fortune" -- he claimed he was worried that the initial conditions of his release would make it difficult for him to find a job -- Mitnick says his well-known name is useful in getting his foot in the door. "My demand in the speaking arena -- my name value or my branding -- is really a product of the sensationalism that was attached to the 'Kevin Mitnick' case... if that never happened I might be a fantastic author, a fantastic consultant, and a world renowned security professional, but by name I might not be known," Mitnick argued. "I do attribute the trials and tribulations that I experienced in the past to why my name is so well known, and... this notoriety -- it does drive some business." Mitnick plans to hand the finished manuscript to his publisher in September next year. Have you got a story for Mitnick's new book? Email him at hacks(a)defensivethinking.com. [View Less]

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Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
by Freematt357＠aol.com 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

In a message dated 12/19/2003 8:33:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, jdd(a)dixons.org writes: > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > >>Why does the US military have > >>to treat them as though they had US constitutional rights? They are not > >>citizens or physically present in the United States. > > > >In a nutshell, our Constitution *recognizes* universal human rights. It > does > >not *establish* these rights. If we are going … [View More]

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Re: "the Kuwait issue is not associated with America"
by Freematt357＠aol.com 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

I'm not sure what your motivation is for wanting to rewrite history, but that isn't what Glaspie said. There's a video interview I saw about all of this on 60 minutes (I think) where it was made clear that Glaspie did in fact say to Saddam that "We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait." Regards, Matt-

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Streisand loses to Adleman over California Coastline pics
by Bill Stewart 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

http://www.californiacoastline.org/streisand/pressrelease-decision.html Ken Adleman and his wife photographed the entire California coastline from their helicopter and put it on line free to the public. Barbara Streisand, ostensible environmentalist, sued because it might let gawking fans figure out how to get near her Malibu estate. The suit was against Adleman and his ISPs. The court agreed that free speech wins and that this was a SLAPP suit, and dinged her for legal fees.

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Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
by James A. Donald 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 21:37, Freematt357(a)aol.com wrote: > That's bullshit. Saddam was told by our Chick ambassador (I > can't remember her name) that the US had no interest in his > dispute with Kuwait, in effect giving Saddam a green light. Commie lie http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html What Glaspie said was: : : The instruction we had during this period was that : : we should express no opinion on this issue and that : : the issue is not associated with … [View More]

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RE: The killer app for encryption
by Major Variola (ret) 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

At 08:18 PM 12/19/03 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: [on onion routing POTS] >"trace" that call, or payment for that matter. So if bin Laden were feelin' >lonely one day and signed onto the network, you could give him a call, >without him worrying about the missles falling within a few minutes. > >-TD If you ran voice analysis over every POTS call and then directed your missile at the customer demarc you'd get your man. A good reason to decrypt to analog the voice at the endpoint, eh?

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"the Kuwait issue is not associated with America"
by Nomen Nescio 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Thanks Steve, I don't think I have heard this before. I googled on the text you quoted and found this url http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_andambassaprilglaspie22303.html and a few more http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html I don't know what to say. This makes me sick to my stomach. I guess one way of lookin at this is that U.S. played dirty and deceiving. U.S. is more or less the reason Iraq invaded Kuwait. I … [View More]

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Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
by Freematt357＠aol.com 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

In a message dated 12/19/2003 3:38:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, jamesd(a)echeque.com writes: > Saddam was warned that if he took Kuwait, terrible consequences > might well follow. > > That's bullshit. Saddam was told by our Chick ambassador (I can't remember her name) that the US had no interest in his dispute with Kuwait, in effect giving Saddam a green light. Regards, Matt-

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fox news
by privacy.at Anonymous Remailer 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

http://www.fauxnewschannel.com/

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RE: The killer app for encryption
by Tyler Durden 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Uh...I assume you're quoting somebody here? The last point is actually a very good one, but getting there requires hacking through gobbledeegook. What's this "all businessmen" silliness? And using vpns WITHIN a company? As an employee of a major Wall Street firm, I can tell you that's completely wrong. But the interesting thing, which again is "obvious" is, "How will P2P Networks morph into something like blacknet?" I'm very interested in hearing about whether any P2P networks support … [View More]

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(No Subject)
by Anonymous 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Re saddam et all... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EL19Ak01.html The war of words over Saddam & Bush is quite amusing. The blind faith in ones govt structure and the willingness to support force that is in such extreme measure overpowering and statist such as the dropping of tons of depleted uranium high explosives shows that some on this list have not broadened their news reading beyond fox news. What courage is required to fly at 40000 ft and drop the MOAB containing DU on … [View More]essentially defenceless targets? How can people think that Bush would never harm civilians? It does not really matter if there are democrats in the whitehouse or "republican" kings appointed by courts. Just because you choose not to deeply examine the effects of the policies of your govt does not make them "reasonable". Successful policies and reasonable policies can be two different things. Its possible to be both successful and reasonable. Its also possible to be successful and un-reasonable... http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html http://www.robert-fisk.com/depleted_uranium_links.htm Saddam merely gassed a few thousand people maybe. Bush senior's gulf war and now Shrub's fine legacy will ensure the slow torturous death of many generations of Iraqis and those American soldiers involved. The awful horrors of Stalin, Hitler and Saddam will pass with a few generations... the half-life of DU is in billions of years.Re American soldiers: Bush has cut medical care for active duty personnel as well as veterans.(link via google search: http://www.veteransforpeace.org/bush_cuts_vet_benefits_041503.htm) The childish blind faith in US statist instituitions does not make their pronouncements right.This is no better than those that blindly followed their communist or nazi leaders. The USA is at the heights of its power because of a well defined strategy of monetary and military control of the world (the dollar as the currency of international trade and its consequences, see links below). Only the people of the USA can prevent the degeneration of their vaunted state into a hellhole that will make the Soviets blush. The seeds are in place - fine grained monetary oversight, 99.99% unsecured easily intercepted private conversation, the shredding of the "bill of rights", willing armies of police and other govt organized thugs, the impending death of the dollar as the only currency of international trade, the overvalued stock market with absurd PEs, the willingness to scam for a buck (Enrons, Halliburton etc), the lack of true capitalism and open competition in certain sectors [eg medical cos, microsoft]. Those on this list should know better. Note: I'm not suggesting that this is going to happen overnight, but as I said the seeds are in place... Some links to ponder: Why is the width of damage to the pentagon not as wide as a 757 (flt 77)? http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/pentagon/index.html http://911research.wtc7.net/ http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/index.html Dollar: http://home.flash.net/~rhmjr/c1219.html http://home.flash.net/~rhmjr/index.html http://thoughts.editthispage.com/ http://www.justiceplus.org/bankers.htm Dollar and war: http://www.pressurepoint.org/pp_iraq_dollars_euro_war.html http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html USS liberty [or the lies the US govt will tell] http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/ http://www.ussliberty.org/ Former KGB head consults for US Dept of homeland security: http://www.impeach-bush-now.org/Articles/Americans/USSA.htm http://www.threadcity.com/cgi-local/social/config.pl?read=27 Of course there will be the chest pounders vouching for their wonderful state... about how all this is Internet garbage. Those unwilling to make a deep and wide investigation are unteachable. Bush needs you. [View Less]

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RE: The killer app for encryption
by Tyler Durden 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

"I'm not certain, but I think there are some MS certified modems which have a generalized A/D-D/A capability sufficient to handle voice." They do. And I'm not so sure POTS is going to be where things will be the most interesting...cable modem telephony might be where things get interesting. As for the Telcos allowing a call to be terminated on their copper, they'll never let this happen without going through the 5ESS, and recent legislation means they probablyt won't have to let you use … [View More]

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Release Saddam now
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Saddam is being wrongly held by illegal invaders and occupiers. He should be immediately released or turned over to legitimate authorities, such as the international courts. Advocate for the release of Saddam Hussein, and the withdrawal of the USurpers. Pass the word. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- … [View More]

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by privacy.at Anonymous Remailer 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Greetings Has Saddam recieved a lawyer yet? Will Saddam be judged by a court having jurisdiction and being recognized internationally?

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Re: Release Saddam now
by Anatoly Vorobey 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

[taken from private exchange back to the list with mutual agreement] > >> > Why? > >> > >> If there is no one with legitimate authority to try Saddam, then they > >> cannot rightly hold him, and he must be released. > > > > What was different about Saddam's regime from the current US-installed > > regime, that made Saddam's regime legitimate authority and this one not > > a legitimate authority? > > Care to take this … [View More]

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President of Flies
by Nomen Nescio 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

US is currently run by thugs supported by the cheering consumer crowds that have been bred and conditioned to be infantile. So the situation is best evaluated in the "Lord of Flies" context. As long as masters are winning and have stronger army than anyone else, nothing will change. You will notice that they never engage army unless they have several orders of magnitude strength advantage. Which means that only small countries are in danger. There are two consequences of this: (a) there is … [View More]

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by Anatoly Vorobey 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 10:11:32AM -0500, Sunder wrote: > That all depends on your definition of sovereign. After all, "we" put, or > at least helped, that monster into power. Not really, no. > So, while he was our puppet, He was never out puppet. > he was the good guy, He was never the good guy, and was never called a good guy by "us". Well, except for the idiots who are now calling for his release, I guess. > and > no matter how many > he murdered, he was a … [View More]

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by James A. Donald 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 10:11, Sunder wrote: > That all depends on your definition of sovereign. After all, > "we" put, or at least helped, that monster into power. No we did not. in 1958 pro soviet socialists gained ascendency in Iraq, but a power struggle proceeded between the communist and baathist wings of the socialist movement. In 1963, the baathists launched a coup, intended to be launched simultaneously in all arab countries, to establish a united supranational arab state based … [View More]

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by privacy.at Anonymous Remailer 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, BillyGOTO wrote: >> Nice, but the problem still remains: At this point it doesn't matter >> what he has done (or we say he has done). This is not a punishment. >> "Innocent until proofen guilty" anyone? This is the basis for the >> "enlightened" western society, no? >This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq. >We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism. I think you might have forgotten about the other half the … [View More]

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RE: The killer app for encryption
by Major Variola (ret) 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

At 08:16 PM 12/18/03 +0000, Jim Dixon wrote: >What exactly do you mean by "peered IP telephony"? > >Voice telephony requires delays measured in tens of milliseconds. A bit >difficult if you also want encryption, anonymity, etc. The problem handling the delay comes with the network, not the encryption. The encryption can be symmetric, and must be used in a mode that tolerates drops, but its not a big cost when sending 8kbytes/sec.

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Wired: -- Debka: Conflict's Drudge Report?
by Steve Schear 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

Debka: Conflict's Drudge Report? By Noah Shachtman Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47325,00.html 02:00 AM Oct. 05, 2001 PT The Iraqis are training Osama bin Laden's troops in chemical and biological weapons; Russian commando units packing newly acquired American arms are poised to storm Afghanistan; Israel is about to be charged with damaging the mosques on Jerusalem's contested Temple Mount. Stories like these- are making the free-wheeling Israeli news site … [View More]

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Re: [dgc.chat] Fwd: [NEC] #2.12: The RIAA Succeeds Where the CypherPunks Failed
by Steve Schear 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

At 12:39 PM 12/17/2003, Patrick Chkoreff wrote: >Well, Clay Shirky has done it again, writing a very insightful article >on the current digital scene, this time on the unintended but >beneficial consequences of RIAA's crackdown on file sharing. > >Here is one particularly telling excerpt: > >>Note that the broadening adoption of encryption is not because users >>have become libertarians, but because they have become criminals; to a >>first approximation, … [View More]

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RE: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

On 18 Dec, Trei, Peter wrote: > proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org wrote: > >>I would like to throw in with the OTO gunners here. [...] > > OTO???? > Ordo Templi Orientalis? > > You don't mean *that*, do you? Why not? > I suspect I'm suffering from acronym overloading. I was simply agreeing with the post of Eric Cordian, and hopefully adding support to the argument, while alluding to his interesting sig. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit … [View More]

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RE: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by Trei, Peter 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org wrote: >I would like to throw in with the OTO gunners here. [...] OTO???? Ordo Templi Orientalis? You don't mean *that*, do you? I suspect I'm suffering from acronym overloading. Peter

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

I would like to throw in with the OTO gunners here. If you are interested in an expanded and predictive analysis, check here. US aggression leads predictably to bad results: Take action to stop the war now http://proclus.tripod.com/radical/wartext4.html I wrote it in April, while US bombs were turning Baghdad into a second 9/11. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 17 Dec, Eric Cordian wrote: > > But when, however, people fly a plainload of passengers into > > two … [View More]

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by James A. Donald 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

-- On 17 Dec 2003 at 9:00, Nomen Nescio wrote: > No what I meant was what IF somehow Bush or Blaire or some > other high ranking coalition politician were captured by Iraq > during the war and was treated in the same way. I can only > presume you would support Saddam's soldiers checking Bush for > lice then. You are also utterly missing the point and you are > one pretty good example of how "the mob" are thinking. > EVERYONE, including Saddam, Pol Pot or whattever … [View More]should be > treated in accordance with the laws by us who call ourselves > the free democratic part of the world. Firstly, the US army has not violated the Geneva convention: Saddam was eligible for being shot on sight. Secondly; It is being overly sensitive about the feelings of those poor fragile souls that hate us and seek to murder us, that got us into these trouble. Our enemies take it for weakness, reasonably enough. We should make it obvious that nothing will stop us from striking at our enemies, that we will cheerfully wade knee deep through blood and the body parts of innocents to destroy those that threaten us, as the crusaders waded to the holy sepulchre. As Bin laden said slaughtering the occupants of the twin towers made them look strong: : : "when people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by : : nature, they will like the strong horse. This is : : only one goal; those who want people to worship the : : lord of the people, without following that doctrine, : : will be following the doctrine of Muhammad, peace be : : upon him" > You should read up on this subject. Saddam also has a history > of building up edicational institutions and so on. He recived > awards by U.N. earlier on for his wellfare programs and the > development Iraq was gaining. To the best of my knowledge, the UN only grants those awards to those who inflict quite extraordinary ruin and horrible destruction on their subjects -- such awards are as infamous and perverse as the UN human rights commission, headed by Libya las time I heard. The UN is a cartel of governments against their subjects. Just as a cartel of ordinary businesses requires its members to charge high prices and supply low quality, and grants honor and recognition to those members that charge remarkably high prices and unusually low quality, in the same way the UN grants honor and recognition to unusually destructive episodes of looting and pillaging against formerly prosperous law abiding peaceful subjects. The UN was established to protect against direct military conflict, but in ordinary day to day life, peaceful competition is a greater threat to the rulers, for example "harmful tax competition". One of the major goals of the EU is to restrain 'harmful tax competition". Similarly one of the major goals of the WTO is to prevent what cypherpunks call regulatory arbitrage. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG wcaHHfIUZy9Tibd6zjm4+q5AQUP7EkuCy6cpPeeX 4svV9LeL01zDRxluCthNIy5l3iiUpZS7LwmP467jH [View Less]

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The killer app for encryption
by James A. Donald 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

-- Encryption is a defense against threats. For people to adopt encryption, they need to be threatened. All businessmen are guilty of insider trading and destruction of evidence. In consequence all businessmen use encrypted vpn internally within companies, but not, however, in external communications, rendering a public key infrastructure quite useless. For widespread tax evasion to take off, we would like widespread use of public keys. Now the entire population is guilty of file … [View More]

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Nextel chills radio station into disciplining disgruntled customer (and show host)
by Tim Meehan 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

Pubdate: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 Source: City Paper (PA) Copyright: 2003 CP Communications, Inc. Contact: editorial(a)citypaper.net Website: http://www.citypaper.net/ Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/88 Author: Morris Bracy Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/people/Forchion THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY The first time self-described marijuana-legalization spokesperson Patrick Duff smoked weed, he was an 11-year-old kid in Delran, N.J. "I was a very adventurous young man," says Duff, who, when he didn't … [View More]get high that first time, wondered what all the hype was about. He couldn't have known that he and Mary Jane would have such an enduring, committed relationship. Sixteen years later, Duff found himself hosting Open Minds, an hourlong weekly program on New World Radio 1540 AM. For an eight-week, buy-your-own-airtime stint that began in October, Duff -- along with a ganja-themed local hip-hop act, Herbillest -- provided a local forum for legalization activists to state their case to Philadelphians. Unlike other shows with similar themes, Duff says that he "wasn't going to go on there and be irate and get real crazy about the situation, [but] actually find people who could solve the problem." Past guests include Cannabis Hall of Fame inductee and author of The Emperor Wears No Clothes Jack Herer, Vancouver's "Prince of Pot," Marc Emery, and our very own "NJ Weedman," Ed Forchion. Duff just couldn't keep the topic on weed the whole time, though, and took on cell phone giant Nextel Communications when his i90 cell gave out. He says he trusted that his $4.95-a-month manufacturer's insurance policy, along with a $35 deductible, would guarantee a new replacement. But as he went through three replacements in six months, he read the fine print and found that Nextel reserved the right to replace broken phones with "refurbished" ones. Duff, who felt like he was getting hustled, demanded the company tell consumers new phones weren't an option and that all phones were used. He then challenged a Nextel rep to defend the company's policies on the air. Nextel responded by calling his station and apparently convincing the general manager to do some in-house censorship. In a letter from the station, Duff was threatened with being "immediately canceled" should he "even breathe the name Nextel." Chris Doherty, Nextel's senior director of public affairs, admits they called but says they didn't threaten the station with a libel suit. According to Doherty, the company's main concern was preventing an irate Duff from publicly making slanderous comments. Doherty claims that during a phone exchange, Duff drew a parallel between Nextel's actions and the Columbine massacre. He feared similar comments might be expressed on the airwaves. New World GM Sam Speiser had no comment. Though his show's off the air, Duff is considering buying more New World time slots. Duff's next move will be his most ambitious yet -- assuming it works. To celebrate the end of the NJ Weedman's drug-possession parole, he's helping the local counterculture celebrity organize a smokeout at the Liberty Bell. Originally scheduled for Dec. 6 -- it was canceled due to snow -- the smokeout is slated to be held this Saturday. Unlike past smokeouts, where everyone quits smoking cigarettes, this will be more of a "smoke-in," where everyone present will celebrate "with the sacrament of marijuana," Duff says. The rally is slated to begin at 3 p.m. and last until 5 p.m., with the "sacrament" to be lit at precisely 4:20 p.m. (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.) According to Duff, invitations went out to Woody Harrelson, Ashton Kutcher, Al Gore and Bill Clinton. "People aren't going to be able to stop us. There's going to be hundreds and hundreds of us," says Duff, who's confident that the event will be an unprecedented success despite ramped-up security around national monuments since the 9/11 attacks. Holding the event on federal property is by design, since participants -- arrested participants, hypothetically -- could seek protection from prosecution under religious-freedom claims. (Forchion, who got pinched with 40 pounds, is a Rastafarian who says court rulings have defended his right to smoke weed during religious rituals.) The location also keeps the Philadelphia Police Department out of the mix, as Independence Mall lies under the National Park Service's purview. As of earlier this week, Park Service spokesperson Phil Sheridan said he hadn't heard about the planned protest, so no responses were available. "There are areas designated for exercising your First Amendment rights," says Sheridan, "but you cannot break the law [to do so]." [View Less]

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Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
by Freematt357＠aol.com 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

December 15, 2003 Uncle Sambs Guantanamo Prison: Outside the Rule of Law By Brigid ObNeil* http://www.independent.org/tii/news/031215ONeil.html The latest news from Guantanamo Bay is beginning to sound like a modern-day Simpsons episode. After two years of imprisoning more than 600 alleged enemy combatants without charge or counsel in a Cuban prison camp, the Administration announced earlier this month that two detainees -- one a U.S. citizen -- would be permitted limited access to an … [View More]attorney. As any Simpsons buff will tell you, itbs a classic Mr. Burns move: put on a show of improving work conditions at the nuclear power plant by dressing Homer in thermal underwear. While it might be an amusing tag line typical of the most noxious character in the Simpsons repertoire, itbs a sad metaphor for the U.S. governmentbs abysmal treatment of designated enemy combatants. News of the American prisonerbs counsel came one day before the Justice Department filed a brief at the Supreme Court, adding to suspicions about the Administrationbs motives. Their brief asks the court to affirm the governmentbs indefinite detention of Americans declared b enemy combatants,b without counsel or the ability to dispute the allegations. The Constitutional liberties at risk in this case, including the right to a fair trial and due process, constitute a grave danger for Americans and foreign nationals alike. And nowhere is the startling consequence of Constitutional b concessionsb more apparent than the state of Guantanamo Bay. >From the beginning, Guantanamo Bay was wrought with strife. The Geneva Convention, with its guarantee of certain fundamental rights for all prisoners of war, was quickly sidelined by the Administration in favor of its own rules for the treatment and investigation of detainees. In the absence of any rule of law, it didnbt take long for the media to pick up reports of inhumane treatment -- or what one former intelligence officer brazenly called, b torture-lite.b These reports include: firing rubber bullets at those in restraints, beatings for anyone who b made a call to prayer,b sleep deprivation, and forced confessions. The situation became so dire that the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the only non-government organization to visit the camp, broke a long-standing policy of silence and called the prisoner circumstances an b intolerable situation.b After reading the latest official statements on the health of the detainees, it becomes shockingly clear why the ICRC took such an unprecedented move. According to national news reports, 35 detainees have attempted suicide, 110 have been placed on a suicide watch list, and 1 out of every 5 detainees now receive medication for what one military official can only describe as b clinical depression.b In response to such damning reports, the Administration contends that the detainees are dangerous terrorists and thus do not deserve any legal protections, much less liberal sympathies. But after two years of investigations at the camp, the Administration has yet to charge any detainee with a crime or bring a case before a military tribunal. Thus, the public has no way to determine what alleged crimes these men are charged with committing, much less whether or not they are guilty. In the absence of any formidable opposition to the Executive Branchbs actions, the Supreme Court has finally stepped into the ring. In a matter of months the Justices will decide two cases that will rule on a host of alleged constitutional abuses. In the first case, Padilla v. Rumsfeld, the Court will determine whether a U.S. citizen has the right to an attorney before disappearing into a military stockade without charges or contact with the outside world. The second case, involving the two appeals of Rasul v. Bush and Odah v. U.S., will decide if Guantanamo detainees can have access to civilian courts to challenge their detention. The most pressing issue in both cases calls into question the newly claimed Executive Branch power to detain any person indefinitely and without any recourse to judicial review. Given the blatant lack of any legal protections for these alleged combatants, it is no wonder that former prisoner-of-war Senator John McCain expressed concern this week about what he saw after a recent visit to Guantanamo. Even prisoners suspected of serious crimes deserve fair and open legal proceedings -- after all, our very Constitution was founded on the right to due process and a presumption of innocence. By holding suspected enemies to our highest rule of law and honoring established international treaties, we set a precedent for the treatment we expect of U.S. troops in enemy hands. To undermine this rule of law risks the very livelihood of our Constitution and threatens the way our citizens are treated both at home and abroad. No minor concessions by the U.S. government can change the impression that the secrecy and lack of due process for detainees at Guantanamo Bay resembles that of the Soviet gulags of old. And it doesnbt take the antics of a Mr. Burns or the gullibility of Homer Simpson to figure it out. *Brigid ObNeil is a researcher at the Center on Peace & Liberty at The Independent Institute in Oakland, California. For further articles and studies, see the War on Terrorism and OnPower.org. [View Less]

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Re: Speaking of Reason
by Freematt357＠aol.com 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

In a message dated 12/11/2003 10:04:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, declan(a)well.com writes: > If that is true, why can't it simply be called "capitalist?" > > I suspect because actual capitalists would have some problems with it. Sterling makes a comment betraying what Ludwig Von Mises called the anti-capitalist mentality when he quipped to Godwin: "Sure, we hate Exxon because they're huge and they're everywhere." Sterling is a capitalist in the same way that Brin is a … [View More]

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by Tyler Durden 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

"You can't predict what "the crowd" will say, and the Arab "crowd" is no more symplistic than the American one. It does "work" somewhat differently, and does display different "mentality", whatever that means, but none of it is exploitable with any useful degree of certainty by cheap armchair psychologising." Again, I think you're missing the point here. All you need is one bin Laden to cause us a decent amount of agony. Half a dozen multimillionares with a fanatical hatred of the US and we … [View More]might have a regime change over here. As for the rest of your post, you didn't respond to the one point so obvious I didn't bother making it: Israel. Add to that images of us running around any country with a drop of oil or two and they have the right picture: "You Arabs can continue living here as long as our access remains unimpeded." And again, the politics and local history are very near irrelevant. The US is there in Saudi, Israel, Iraq, and wherever...not the French, not the Italians, and not the Chinese or the Russians. -TD >From: Anatoly Vorobey <mellon(a)pobox.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)minder.net >Subject: Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention? >Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 01:08:46 +0200 > >On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 05:06:55PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > > A thread that started out quasi-interesting has descended into > > non-Cypherpunk levels of triviality. > >I thought it was trivial all along. > > > The original point stands, and is valid. The Islamic world and, in > > particular, the Arabic part of the Islamic world, are probably going to > > forget their dislike of Saddam when they see those newreels of the great > > Dictator being rubbergloved and de-loused. > >Oh please. They (well, many of them) sure didn't forget their dislike of >the US when they saw those newsreels of the twin towers tumbling down. > > > For them it's almost certainly > > going to resound as a symbol of how we've systematically manipulated and > > fucked them over all these years. > >Actually, they mostly systematically manipulated and fucked themselves >over, with occassional help from different factions in the rest of the >world. > >And they already have a "symbol of how we've", etc. - American military >presence in the most holy of Islamic countries, Saudi Arabia. That's >one of the largest reasons for Al-Qaeda growth in recent years. Compared >to infidel military bases somewhere near Mecca and Medina, whatever's >done to some dictator who has presided over a mostly secular regime is >insignificant. And American military presence in Saudi Arabia is >actually subsiding now because Iraq is no longer a threat. > > > They're not going to respect our "Power", > > they're not going to care much that WE supported Saddam in the first >place. > > They're just going to get angrier. > >This is just so much armchair psychology. Most of it is silly >theoretising that has no grounding in reality. > >One side says: look, we had to humuliate him publicly, because those >Arabs only understand power, they only respect you if you clearly show >them who's the boss, bla bla bla. > >The other side says: we shouldn't humiliate him, because the Arab >culture is built around the all-powerful concept of pride, and they'll >never forget how we hurt their pride, bla bla bla. > >Both sides are spewing idiotic garbage with some marginal relevance to >reality, which is much, much more complicated than that. You can't >predict what "the crowd" will say, and the Arab "crowd" is no more >symplistic than the American one. It does "work" somewhat differently, >and does display different "mentality", whatever that means, but none of >it is exploitable with any useful degree of certainty by cheap armchair >psychologising. > > > Look for bin Laden to grow in status > > until he's just a notch or two below Mohammed. > >This is inane. > > > That Saddam was a cruel, butchering dictator will > > soon be nearly irrelevant. > >Truth is always relevant. > >-- >avva _________________________________________________________________ Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 [View Less]

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Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
by Major Variola (ret) 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

(resend) At 11:52 AM 12/13/03 -0500, John Kelsey wrote: >At 09:19 AM 12/12/03 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: >... >>You need to think about the "lone warrior" scenario that the Gang >>worries about. McVeighs and Rudolphs. >>They were influenced by memes which were not immediately suppressed. > >One interesting property of the lone warriors is that they can't actually >make peace. Good points, but not entirely true. For instance, we could stop the Jihad (… [View More]

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The RIAA Succeeds Where the Cypherpunks Failed
by James A. Donald 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

-- Clay Shirky: http://www.shirky.com/writings/riaa_encryption.html tells us "The RIAA Succeeds Where the Cypherpunks Failed" [...] The Government's failure to get the Clipper implemented came at a heady time for advocates of digital privacy -- the NSA was losing control of cryptographic products, Phil Zimmerman had launched his Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) email program, and the Cypherpunks, a merry band of crypto-loving civil libertarians, were on the cover of the second issue of Wired. … [View More]

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Re: [dgc.chat] Fwd: [NEC] #2.12: The RIAA Succeeds Where the CypherPunks Failed
by Steve Schear 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

At 12:39 PM 12/17/2003, Patrick Chkoreff on the dgcchat@lists wrote: >Well, Clay Shirky has done it again, writing a very insightful article >on the current digital scene, this time on the unintended but >beneficial consequences of RIAA's crackdown on file sharing. > >Here is one particularly telling excerpt: > >>Note that the broadening adoption of encryption is not because users >>have become libertarians, but because they have become criminals; to a >>… [View More]

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Spy News
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

NYT reports today on a new book, "Blind Man's Bluff," which reports on the US's success at placing surveillance devices on Soviet subsea communications cables around the world. With much technical detail about how it was done, beginning with the simple but overlooked idea of locating shoreline warning signs about undersea cables then tracking from there. The devices, some up to 20 feet long for housing elaborate processing equipment, captured electronic emanations, thereby eluding … [View More]

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4 Horseman not so bad..
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:52 AM 10/29/98 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote: >> but some peope are scared of >> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. >> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. > >Thats the most interesting POV I've ever heard >of in these discussions, seems like for the most part, >we counter fear arguments with other fear arguments, >Never saw this before. Bears more examination. Right. The new Happy Net campaign. Druggies.. why, … [View More]

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Re: your mail
by Joel O'Connor 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once. 24 hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again. 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car. Come morning time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars. Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go with the flight. ---Chip Mefford <cmefford(a)video.avwashington.com> wrote: > &… [View More]

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Why porn must be stopped at all costs, by Jodi Hoffman
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Wow. First time I've ever been personally accused of being "a major reason for the downward spiral of society." --Declan] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 11:53:27 -0500 From: Jodi Hoffman <jlhoffm(a)ibm.net> To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Why porn must be stopped at all costs..... ALL: I've forgotten how long I've been on this email list. Maybe too long. Try as I might, I cannot forget standing on the steps of the Supreme Court building … [View More]with my husband and 10 year old daughter in the freezing drizzle. I really thought we could make a difference, standing there with our banner and signs, one of which read, "DON'T SACRIFICE MY CHILD ON THE ALTAR OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT." Stupid me. As the saying goes...we've come a long way, baby. As I wander back through all the posts on this list, it finally dawns on me what this is all about, this 'fight censorship' rhetoric. It's nothing more and nothing less than a lot of egotistical, self-serving brats who absolutely refuse to grow up, including you, Declan. Don't you realize that YOU are a major reason for the downward spiral of society? Instead of trying to protect children, you want to empower them. Even a moron knows that when you do so, that power has to be taken from someone. Unfortunately, that someone is the parent. I have to ask myself just how many on this list have children. Not many, I would say. Someone on this list, I forget who, has made numerous attempts at convincing us that pornography 'does no harm' to children. It is exactly at this point that I must draw a line. Studies have shown that an event which lasts even so much as three-tenths of a second, within five to ten minutes has produced a structural change in the brain. Exposure to porn causes actual brain damage, especially in a child. So, keep protecting your porn-induced orgasms. That's exactly what happened with the Hitler youth, etc... After all, I'm sure it does help to blur the lines of reality. ===================== Please PRINT THIS OUT and save for later reference. Rules number 1 through 7 have already been put into effect. Rule number 8 is currently being implemented. Numbers 9 and 10 are already in the beginning phases. If you're not yet convinced that you are contributing to the ruination of America, I would hope you will be by the time you finish reading this. Paul and Jodi Hoffman Weston, Florida "When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side", I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already..." --Adolph Hitler, speaking about the schools and their indoctrination of the Hilterjugend (Hitler Youth Corps). ================================================== LENIN'S BLUEPRINT FOR WORLD DOMINATION These 'Rules' are meant to be a loose parody of the Ten Commandments, and are particularly emphasized at the Lenin School of Political Warfare. They are practical rules that are being implemented all over the world -- with special emphasis on the strongest foe of Communism, the United States. Study these Rules very carefully. And then reflect upon what is happening in our society right now. Perhaps this list will provide answers to some of the questions that seemed --until now -- to have no answers. Lenin himself said that it didn't matter that three-fourths of the world be destroyed, just so the remnant were good Communists. RULE FOR REVOLUTION #1: CORRUPT THE NATION'S YOUTH THE RULE: The future of any nation lies with its youth. So corrupt them; since religion teaches moral virtue, erode the churches and divert the young from religion. Make them interested only in themselves. Get them involved in drugs, alcohol, and sex. Get them addicted to privileges and rights. THE REALITY: Many of today's youth are grossly overprivileged, committed to fashion, physically flabby and lazy, and mentally undisciplined. If they don't want to do something, they simply will not do it. And if they want to do something to indulge themselves, no law or moral standard will hold them back. They feel that they are entitled to the 'good things in life,' not as a reward for hard work, but as an expected gift, to be received without effort and even without asking. And where do they learn such slovenliness? Just spend two hours in front of a television watching a random selection of situation comedies to find out. Unfortunately, kids who fit the above description usually model themselves after their parents. Such parasitic habits would not be tolerated in the former Soviet Union. The prevailing attitude among today's pampered American youth is one of nihilism ( I am nothing, life has no meaning, I don't care) -- and for good reason. Over 75 percent of America's high school boys now think it's acceptable to rape a girl at any age. Wonder why anymore? RULE FOR REVOLUTION #2: CONTROL THE MASS MEDIA THE RULE: Since the media shapes the minds of the people, infiltrate it and control it. Dominate television, radio, and the newspapers, and you control the minds of the people. THE REALITY: It is quite obvious that traditional values are considered ridiculous to all branches of the media. Christians, clergy, and even Christ Himself are held up as objects of scorn and mocking laughter by television, motion pictures, radio, artists, and songwriters. In the place of decency and morality, a constant stream of Left-wing values is presented. Homosexuality, abortion, violence, and contempt for all parental and governmental authority is the prevailing order of the day. A particularly powerful form of media is represented by the so-called "arts community." Some latter-day "artists" actually make a pretty good living by mocking traditional values and Christianity. Consider Andres Sorrano's "Piss Christ" (a photograph of a crucifix submerged in urine) or Robert Mapplethorp's photos, which include one showing a bullwhip protruding out of his rear end. This media bias is not a fantasy of a few right-wing whiners; this is cold, hard reality. The extreme leftward tilt of the media has been documented by impartial observers and study managers, and has even been acknowledged by the press itself. RULE FOR REVOLUTION #3: ENCOURAGE PUBLIC INDIFFERENCE THE RULE: Cause the people to become disinterested in their own government and in world affairs. Get them to feel disenfranchised. Get them to ridicule and lose respect for government leaders. THE REALITY: Americans now vote at a lower rate than at any other time in our history. Every American knows how disenfranchised and powerless the average voter feels. The media constantly trumpet instances of hypocrisy and corruption in our government, despite the fact that we have the most open and honest political system in the world. The United States Supreme Court has wrested much of the State's power from them with judicial activism. This means that the people's representatives at the State level -- and therefore the people themselves -- have much less of a voice in their own government. On the state level, when people or local legislators finally manage to pass a conservative law regarding abortion, pornography or homosexuality, it is invariably challenged by Neo-liberal groups and struck down by higher courts, leading voters to ask themselves "Why bother participating in the process? We have no real voice in how things are run anyway!" RULE FOR REVOLUTION #4: ENCOURAGE PUBLIC BICKERING THE RULE: Divide the people into hostile groups. Divide them against themselves by getting them to squabble about inconsequential social issues. THE REALITY: Never before have so many trivial issues captured so much air time. Major construction and other projects are halted due to sometimes trivial environmental concerns. Critical research which uses animals is halted or impeded by animal-rights groups. Sodomy rights, old- growth timber, anti-fur, and dozens of other Neoliberal causes (and the conservative backlash) cause more friction among our nation's people than in any other nation in the world. Meanwhile, the real issues of importance are either entirely neglected or paid weak lip service: Crime, poverty, hunger and, beneath all of them, the moral disintegration of our country. All of these have lead to despair among those affected and encourage violent change at any cost, with no thought given to the kind of change being fought for. Naturally, when conservatives react to Neoliberal initiatives with concrete action, they are painted as agents of "divisiveness" and "disunity," further leading to the impression that American society is composed entirely of squabbling special-interest groups. RULE FOR REVOLUTION #5: SEIZE POWER, THEN CENSOR THE RULE: Always preach true democracy, but seize power as completely and ruthlessly as possible. Vigorously censor viewpoints that conflict with ours. THE REALITY: If the slightest complaint against pornography in our schools is raised by concerned parents, People for the American Way (PAW), the ACLU, and other left-wing groups instantly shout "censorship!" But they say not a word when it is pointed out that the Bible and all mention of morality in textbooks have been ruthlessly hounded from the schools. Religion has literally disappeared from our children's textbooks. The media relentlessly suppress the reasoning behind conservative and traditional viewpoints while reporting their version of the facts and claiming "impartiality." Artists' demand that the people pay for their atrocities. When the people balk, the 'artists' whine about censorship. All traditional groups and viewpoints are fair game for ridicule; yet when was the last time you saw any 'artist' making fun of sodomites or women? In other words, the censorship is all one-way. And the "pluralism" valued so much by the Neoliberals is entirely unilateral (one way only). Communist atrocities which have killed more than 150 million all over the world are glossed over or ignored, but the most trivial international action by the United States brings immediate and forceful condemnation. RULE FOR REVOLUTION #6: BANKRUPT THE GOVERNMENT THE RULE: Encourage government extravagance on every front. Get the government deeply into debt. Get the people dependent on government by providing for their every need. This destroys their independence, motivation and strength. THE REALITY: The United States is flat broke. It is the number one debtor nation on earth, with a deficit of more than $5,000,000,000,000 (five trillion dollars). Social programs pay for everything from abortion and homosexual-run "sensitivity training sessions" to comprehensive sex education. We are the most truly Socialistic society on earth, a nation of people addicted to entitlements, unable to break away from the ample government teat, people who scream at the top of our lungs if any cutbacks in services are proposed. And yet, the Neoliberals want to spend even more. They want us to fund family benefits for sodomites, a comprehensive health care plan that will inevitably turn into a Britain-like socialized horror, and "art" that is blatantly obscene. RULE FOR REVOLUTION #7: DESTROY NATIONAL VALUES THE RULE: Cause a breakdown of indigenous national values. Destroy all tradition in preparation for the bright dawn of glorious Socialism. Ridicule religion, patriotism, and honesty. The people must be led to have only one interest: Themselves! THE REALITY: >From the public schools to the pulpits of Christian "churches," moralrelativism and situational ethics are the rule of the day. The highest goods are compassion, nonjudgmentalism, and tolerance. Any individual weakness is treated as a problem of society, not of the person, and this relieves everyone of the responsibility of improving themselves. Why should there be any effort to take responsibility for one's own faults when "society" is so conveniently ready to take the blame for all one's sins? Society has made the sacrifice. So criminals, addicts, alcoholics, child molesters, wife beaters, and others can always blame their problems on society. We have truly become the "me generation." RULE FOR REVOLUTION #8: ATTACK GUN OWNERSHIP THE RULE: Control or register all firearms if possible. This will make their confiscation much easier when the time comes for revolution. THE REALITY: When the Communist Revolution occurs in the United States, the last thing the Red Armies want to face is ten million determined and well-trained guerrillas (gun owners) taking potshots at them from around every corner. The Communists don't want the equivalent of ten Afghanistans in the United States. Although the objective of inhibiting gun ownership has not yet been completely met, there are dozens of bills and initiatives being submitted all over the country for compulsory gun registration, permitting, and other controls. The Second Amendment is disregarded entirely as Neoliberals trumpet for all guns to be totally banned. After all, they say, thousands die from gun-related accidents and crimes every year. They fail to see that criminals will always get guns, a parallel to their own argument stating that, if abortion becomes illegal, women will still get abortions. RULES FOR REVOLUTION #9 AND #10: UNDERMINE THE ARMED FORCES THE RULES: Destroy the reputation of the armed forces. Cause the young men to perceive military duty as distasteful and ridiculous. Fight registration of any kind, and encourage defections within the ranks. Cause the people to desire peace at any cost. Cause them to oppose any and all of their government's actions regarding the strengthening or use of their armed forces. THE REALITY: Our country's armed forces consume a vast percentage of our gross national product. We possess the best and most advanced weapons systems in the world. But our armed forces are a joke for two reasons: (1) they are completely restrained in their actions by a hostile Congress, and (2) the armed forces have been saddled with such a bad reputation that it is virtually impossible to fill the ranks with volunteers, even in the new and streamlined armed services. Where serving in the armed forces was once considered patriotic and honorable (as it was in the former Soviet Union), it is now looked upon as foolish and 'anti-progressive.' Servicemen are ridiculed and denigrated at every turn. People say that, if you can't make it on the outside, you wind up in the armed forces. Every serviceman is considered to be a useless gobbler of tax money. FINAL REALITY: WELCOME TO AMERIKA, COMRADES. ================================================================ The 'Rules for Revolution' described here are the most important actions that can be taken to weaken a country in order to prepare it for armed attack or a skillful coup d'etat. These rules are summaries that are extracted from a number of books written by professional revolutionaries from the former Soviet Union, from other Communist-dominated countries, and from the United States itself. They are most concisely summarized in the 2,225 page, three-volume set Lenin: Selected Works , distributed in English by Progress Publishers, 21, Zubovsky Boulevard, Moscow. These general principles, dedicated to one of the most famous revolutionaries of all time, Vladimir Lenin, are studied by every Communist political scientist, and by every ambassador or emissary of any type who leaves the former Soviet Union. They are also studied in great detail by many Americans. -- Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America 1304 SW 160th Avenue, Suite 122 Weston, Florida 33326 Phone: (954) 349-0366 Fax: (954) 349-0361 [View Less]

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Re: cryptx spam - des-based program.
by Ian Grigg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Stewart said: > I got spammed by someone selling Cryptx, a DES-based encryption program. Sheez, not only spam, but perverting our good name! Cryptix is good strong stuff, they are simply hoping to confuse customers by dropping a vowel. -- iang systemics.com FP: 1189 4417 F202 5DBD 5DF3 4FCD 3685 FDDE on pgp.com

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