December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Matthew James Gering 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I wrote: > > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly > > whose source of monopoly power is not ultimately the > > government. Jim Choate answered: > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. The church had a monopoly on religion. Not any more. When it had it was supported by the state or by its own use of force. The other two organizations use force to maintain their monopoly, and again both are supported indirectly (sometimes more directly than we like to think) by the state. The state prohibits free competition, it is a black market. When I talk of a free market I man Laissez Faire Capitalism, not Anarcho-Capitalism. The abolition of force is a requisite (and the only proper role of government). A large company can maintain a monopoly by force (more often than not the government is the instrument of force, the legalization of coercive monopoly power). Matt

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering <mgering(a)ecosystems.net> > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:01:23 -0700 > I wrote: > > > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly > > > whose source of monopoly power is not ultimately the > > > government. > > Jim Choate answered: > > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. > > The church had a monopoly on religion. Churches monopolize faith (but let's not go there). > Not any more. Tell that to the Isreali's and the Arab's, the Serbs and the Slav's, The Hutu's and the whoever they are I can't think of at the moment, the Irish Protestants and Catholics, etc., etc., ad nausium... When it had it was > supported by the state or by its own use of force. The other two force is one form of coercion, faith can be another. > organizations use force to maintain their monopoly, and again both are > supported indirectly (sometimes more directly than we like to think) by > the state. The state prohibits free competition, it is a black market. A free-market is defined as consisting of the supplier and the consumer without a regulatory body. It doesn't prohibit a third group *wanting* to regulate that market. Or of either the producer or consumer using violence to prevent it. > When I talk of a free market I man Laissez Faire Capitalism, not > Anarcho-Capitalism. What's the specific difference? What is the fundamental litmus test between a Laisez Faire and a Anarcho? In one case there is no recognized arch to be had to regulate the market and in the other the third party simply opts out of participating. In what way are the resulting markets different from either the producers or consumers view? > The abolition of force is a requisite (and the only > proper role of government). Explain further what you mean by abolition of force is a prerequisite please. And what specificaly do you mean by proper role of government? ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Fwd: Fw: Court Strikes Down Federal Mandates Again]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > While I have not found this case decision posted anywhere but in this > usenet posting, I have found some background info: > http://www.rcfp.org/NMU/961216b.html > Local Sovereignty Update > US Court Again Upholds State Sovereignty and Strikes Down Federal = > Mandate > This month we have another case in which the federal courts have = > recognized that the federal government has no authority to impose any = > mandate on state or local government. > Printz v. US ruled that '[t]he Federal Government may neither issue = > directives requiring the States to address particular problems, nor = > command the States' officers, or those of their political subdivisions, = > to administer or enforce a federal regulatory program.' That across = > the board prohibition is simply being applied to various federal = > mandates one after the other.=20 > =20 > CONDON v US, Decided: September 3, 1998 =20 > > =20 > In 1994 Congress passed the Driver's Privacy Protection Act (DPPA), = > which tried to set federal standards governing how and when information = > in driving records could be released. The DPPA said that "Any State = > department of motor vehicles that has a policy or practice of = > substantial noncom- pliance . . . shall be subject to a civil penalty = > imposed by the Attorney General of not more than $5,000 a day."=20 > =20 > South Carolina, joined by several other states, refused to implement the = > Driver's Privacy Protection Act (DPPA), and sued the Federal government = > in US Court demanding that the law be recognized by the federal courts = > as a violation of the Tenth and Eleventh Amendments to the United States = > Constitution. > =20 > The Fourth Circuit Court struck down DPPA ruling that > > > "Under our system of dual sovereignty, "[t]he powers not delegated to = > the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the = > States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." U.S. = > Const. amend. X. Because Congress lacked the authority to enact the DPPA = > under either the Commerce Clause or Section 5 of the Fourteenth = > Amendment, we affirm the judgment of the district court." > > > The Court also stated plainly that: "Congress may not enact any law that = > would direct the functioning of the States' executives or legislatures." = > > > Citing the New York and Printz cases the court said that the Supreme = > Court's ruling with respect to federal mandates "has been a model of = > consistency."=20 > > Some of the more important quotes from the case follow: > > > In New York v. United States, 505 U.S. 144 (1992) the Supreme Court = > held that Congress could not "commandeer[ ] the legislative processes of = > the States by directly compelling them to enact and enforce a federal = > regulatory program." ... In Printz v. US the court held "that Congress = > cannot circumvent that prohibition by conscripting the State's officers = > directly." Id. at 2384. The Court went on to note that '[t]he Federal = > Government may neither issue directives requiring the States to address = > particular problems, nor command the States' officers, or those of their = > political subdivisions, to administer or enforce a federal regulatory = > program.' " > =20 > > "The Supreme Court, in both New York and Printz, has made it perfectly = > clear that the Federal Government may not require State officials to = > administer a federal regulatory program." > > > "Although Congress has regulated the disclosure of personal information = > by some private parties, the Constitution permits Congress to regulate = > the conduct of individuals. In contrast, Congress may not, as a general = > matter, regulate the conduct of the States. See New York, 505 U.S. at = > 166 ("[T]he Framers explicitly chose a Constitution that confers upon = > Congress the power to regulate individuals, not States." (quoted with = > approval in Printz, 117 S. Ct. at 2377)). " > > "The United States also contends that the DPPA was properly enacted = > pursuant to Congress's power under Section 5 of the Four- teenth = > Amendment. In light of the Supreme Court's landmark decision in City of = > Boerne v. Flores, 117 S. Ct. 2157 (1997), we are constrained to = > disagree." > > Congress's power to enact legislation under the Fourteenth Amendment is = > not unlimited, however. See, e.g. , City of Boerne v. Flores, 117 S. Ct. = > 2157, 2171 (1997) (holding that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act is = > "a considerable congressional intrusion into the States' traditional = > prerogatives," and that Congress exceeded its power under the Fourteenth = > Amendment in enacting the statute); Gregory v. Ashcroft, 501 U.S. 452, = > 469 (1991) (stating that "the Four- teenth Amendment does not override = > all principles of federalism"); Oregon v. Mitchell, 400 U.S. 112, 128 = > (1970) (noting that "[a]s broad as the congressional enforcement power = > is, it is not unlimited"). For instance, Congress's power "extends only = > to enforc[ing] the provi- sions of the Fourteenth Amendment." City of = > Boerne, 117 S. Ct. at 2164 (emphasis added) (internal quotation marks = > omitted). Of perhaps equal importance, it is only a preventative or = > remedial power, not a substantive power. See id. at 2167. As a result, = > Congress does not possess "the power to determine what constitutes a = > constitutional violation." Id. at 2164.=20 > > > "neither the Supreme Court nor this Court has ever found a = > constitutional right to privacy with respect to the type of information = > found in motor vehicle records. Accordingly, Congress did not have the = > authority under Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment to enact the = > DPPA." ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. Hettinga Bostoned: >True enough. The water runs off the mountains *into* most of Death Valley, >not *out* of it. The Totos > Todt An experience not to be missed is walking on the boiling water that collects at the lowest hottest point of the US. The encrusted mineral deposits left as the moisture evaporates create a hurricanic wreckcape of razor sharp crystals and suffocating stench in 120-degree+ summer heat -- yourself abarbeque. Not far away is where rocks moonwalk across the flat landscape, leaving astronautic tracks of their movement which has not yet been explained by NASA investigators, all unawares pancaked by their implacable specimens heading home for Jupiter. Then there's the nearby location where earth's gravity is not perpendicular, and all vegetation is angled exactly to fit the cant. When you step into the gavitational field you tip like Pisa's Tower obeying the pull. Some learned idiots say this is due to undergound deposits of metallic ore or a chunk of Mars. (There are several such sites around the US, one the Pentagon Parking Lot East, where the levitators worked the 1969 liftoff). All this perfectly tunes in to crypto channel because it is from Death Valley that our film crew returned today from shooting the Toto Family, not CJ's family but the band of creatures who gypsy under The Toto Mantle (TTM). Yes, they are ghoulish beyond ancestor-vulgar Pacific Rim loathsome, but that is not what cracked up us TransAtlanticists. It was watching the whole crew of TTMs simultaneously, in concert, keening and hair strumming, produce encrypted text, each contributing algorithmicly single alpha numerical digits, plink A, plonk 2, plunk %, in perfect signed PGP, bypassing incluement grammatical plaintext, EZ-guessable PWs and crackerjacktoy keys to issue pure incomprehensibility which could be instantaneously decrypted by an incomprehending viewer barechest-lathered with Death Valley Vapor Rub(DVVR) (TM-TTM). There is this, too. Each TM-TTM rubber descoda was genuine, authentic, narcotic, immimicable, that is certain from the Radiant Glow of Ego ID Superego Transcendence that erases the codebarer barefooting meatslicing mineral deposits, bareback riding walking rocks, bare-ass leaning into the fully exposed future disclosed in the deathseeking porno-crypto-graphy of The Totos > Todt (TT>T).

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Echelon's Origin
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The NSA released during the summer a Top Secret memorandum by Truman in 1952 establishing NSA as the lead COMINT agency for the USG: http://jya.com/nsa102452.htm After the dry description of decisionmaking procedures there are tantalizing pointers to the means NSA is to use to spy on foreign governments' communications, with reference to accommodating allies at NSA facilities -- read it carefully. Also, it's chilling to read that COMINT was so vital that Truman declared it to be free from any constraints placed on all other forms of intelligence. And the DIRNSA was given authority to command any military department or civilian agency for COMINT purposes It would be helpful to learn what superceded this memo for authority to engage in global COMINT. Yes, we accept anonymous contributions for COMINTers. Erich Moechel writes that France has its version of Echelon and wiretapping, and shares its fruits with Germany, in competition with the Echelon-Five. The French have built up an Echelon like wiretapping system of their own, operating from Dordogne (France), French Guayana & Nouvelle Caledonie. Would anyone have more information on this program? And what about other Echelons around the world?

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INFO-RUSS: "Post-Soviet Science and Technology" class (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: >From INFO-RUSS-request(a)smarty.ece.jhu.edu Thu Oct 1 21:43:40 1998 Message-Id: <9810012329.AA25272(a)smarty.ece.jhu.edu> Errors-To: INFO-RUSS-request(a)smarty.ece.jhu.edu Sender: INFO-RUSS-request(a)smarty.ece.jhu.edu Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:19:28 -0700 To: info-russ(a)smarty.ece.jhu.edu From: "Andrei G. Chakhovskoi" <chakhovs(a)ece.ucdavis.edu> Subject: INFO-RUSS: "Post-Soviet Science and Technology" class --------------------------------------------------------------------- This is INFO-RUSS broadcast (1200+ subscribers). Home page, information, and archives: http://psi.ece.jhu.edu/~kaplan/IRUSS/inforuss.html To post, or to subscribe/unsubscribe, mail to info-russ(a)smarty.ece.jhu.edu INFO-RUSS assumes no responsibility for the information/views of its users. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear INFO-RUSS netters: I am teaching a class on "Post-Soviet Science and Technology" at the University of California at Davis. If you can share any information, personal experience, or if you can point to an information source relevant to the subject - please respond to the message below. This year, I begin teaching a class which talks about a recent history and up-to-date changes in science, technology and ecology in Russia and the republics of the former USSR. This class is more like an "experimental" effort to take a look at the current situation in scientific and technology field in former USSR. Being involved for many years in high-tech research in Russian Academy of Sciences as well as in several defense R&D institutions in Moscow and the vicinity, I am naturally interested to learn what is happening there now. Although I am working at UC Davis since 1992, I am still involved in a number of collaborative projects with my former Russian and Ukranian co-workers. I was sharing my thoughts about the situation in Soviet science and technology with my colleagues at UC Davis and Sandia NL, as well as with scientists at various forums and conferences; and I found that there is actually a big interest to this issue. Sometimes a spontaneous discussion has originated from these conversations, leading to an invitation to give a talk about the subject. People were interested to hear about current challenges and difficulties faced by Russian scientists as well as about intellectual and technological potential accumulated in Russia and former USSR countries. And always the audience was interested to hear more information and details than could be delivered in one single talk. After a few talks I decided to expand the effort and I approached the Teaching Resources Center at UC Davis with a proposal to originate an interdepartmental seminar on this subject. The idea was welcomed, and the seminar got approved for the Fall of 1998. Currently, this is one-quarter (8 weeks) seminar for a small group of students (15 people) from different specialities. Most of them are freshman who do not have chosen a major speciality yet. Depending the success of this seminar it may eventually grow into a bigger course. The exact title of this seminar is "The Effects of the Changing Economy on Technology and Ecology in Russia and New Independent Countries". The term "Changing Economy" here is not just economy but also implies "State and Political System". Although I will try to concentrate on science and technology more than on politics and economy, I afraid that it will be impossible to ignore political and economical issues, especially due to the recent crisis in Russia. Because of the nature of this seminar and the subject studied, there is no solid curriculum or a single book which can be used throughout the quarter. The students need to collect the most recent information from the Internet and periodicals and they are encouraged to study and compare different opinions obtained from various communication sources. I do have a growing collection of WEB-links and press documents relevant to the subject, but this collection is far from being complete. I will appreciate it if you can point to the WEB-links, to newsgroups which discuss relevant issues, or to documents which can be downloaded and used for this class. I will especially appreciate it if you have materials like photos, brief videos, documents, magazines, newspapers which you can loan or share for this seminar. If it involves copying expenses I can make copies of the materials and return the originals, or I can provide a reimbursement for copying/mailing expenses. All the materials will be used for educational purpose only, the source or the author of the material will be identified with a proper reference and acknowledgement. A very important part of this seminar is related to a personal experience shared by people who are working or used to work in this field. I will appreciate any documents of a personal matter - memories, stories which can be shared with the students. Also, I would like to invite interested parties to join a discussion as invited speakers. I would like to invite somebody who was involved in joint research/development projects between USA and Russia, who is working in the field related to technology transfer and international scientific collaboration, or who just has an experience working in high-tech field in Russia to share his/her experience and feelings. If anybody is living not very far from Davis, CA or traveling in Northern California in October/November - I would be extremely delighted if you find it possible to give a talk at this seminar. We meet each Tuesday between October 6 and November 24. Unfortunately, due to the size of the seminar the budget for this quarter is quite limited so I will not be able to offer you a generous honorarium, or fly you from New York or Boston, but at least I can reimburse you for the travel from San Francisco Bay area / Silicon Valley (about $ 50). Please e-mail me at chakhovs(a)ece.ucdavis.edu Thanks and best regards, Dr. Andrei G. Chakhovskoi Lecturer / Research Scientist University of California at Davis Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering

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Randomness testing
by Clifford Heath 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some sound-card random number seeding that we wrote). I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I don't know where else to turn. I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals' predictive powers, but we have to live with that. -- Clifford Heath http://www.osa.com.au/~cjh Open Software Associates Limited mailto:cjh@osa.com.au 29 Ringwood Street / PO Box 4414 Phone +613 9871 1694 Ringwood VIC 3134 AUSTRALIA Fax +613 9871 1711 ------------------------------------------------------------ Deploy Applications across the net, see http://www.osa.com

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Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
by HyperReal-Anon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Matthew James Gering 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate wrote: > > When I talk of a free market I mean Laissez Faire Capitalism, > > not Anarcho-Capitalism. > > What's the specific difference? I cannot claim to be an expert on anarcho-capitalism, but the fundamental difference is Laissez Faire Capitalists believes in limited government. The primary role of government being the abolition of coercive force, the protection of intellectual property, and running or overseeing of what can absolutely be justified as a natural monopoly (e.g. military defense, sewer, local roads, etc). Anarcho-capitalism on the other hand believes in no government (anarchy) and that social institutions and co-ops will assume any functions that a government would have had. Some believe that people and organizations will independently prevent force will others believe in a competitive free market for force and protection. In either case there is no government interference in free trade (except LF would prohibit Assassination Politics (AP) and similar). > In what way are the resulting markets different from > either the producers or consumers view? Views on intellectual property and the obvious marketplace changes due to an IP or lack of IP framework would be the major difference IMHO. I cannot currently justify no intellectual property rights taken to an extreme, and then you have the contradiction of force within the framework of commerce. > Explain further what you mean by abolition of force is a > prerequisite please. Basically no person (or entity) can use force (or its derivatives) against another person (or entity). Your long history of criminal law, except stripped of all victimless crimes. > And what specificaly do you mean by proper role of government? "What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense. Each of us has a natural right--from God--to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend -- even by force -- his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right -- its reason for existing, its lawfulness -- is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force -- for the same reason -- cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups. Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces? If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all." from _The Law_, by Frederick Bastiat Matt

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Re: IP: New ExecOrd: Computer Software Piracy
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Source: US Newswire > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1001-125.txt > > Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy > U.S. Newswire > 1 Oct 14:10 > > Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy > To: National Desk, Technology Writer > Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100 > > WASHINGTON, Oct. 1 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The following was released > today by the White House: > > EXECUTIVE ORDER > - - - - - - - > COMPUTER SOFTWARE PIRACY > > The United States Government is the world's largest purchaser of > computer-related services and equipment, purchasing more than $20 > billion annually. At a time when a critical component in discussions > with our international trading partners concerns their efforts to > combat piracy of computer software and other intellectual property, > it is incumbent on the United States to ensure that its own practices > as a purchaser and user of computer software are beyond reproach. > Accordingly, by the authority vested in me as President by the > Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is > hereby ordered as follows: > > Section 1. Policy. It shall be the policy of the United States > Government that each executive agency shall work diligently to > prevent and combat computer software piracy in order to give effect > to copyrights associated with computer software by observing the > relevant provisions of international agreements in effect in the > United States, including applicable provisions of the World Trade > Organization Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual > Property Rights, the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary > and Artistic Works, and relevant provisions of Federal law, including > the Copyright Act. I suppose this means the USG will decide to retroactively compensate Inslaw for their use of the Promis software all these years...

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The end of The Netly News
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:24:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: The end of The Netly News http://www.freedomforum.org/press/presswatch.asp Declan McCullagh is ending his longstanding "Netly News" column and leaving Time magazine today because of the magazine's recently restructured technology coverage. He will join Wired Oct. 12 as chief Washington correspondent. His agreement with Wired lets him continue to run the Politech e-mail list, a popular industry source of breaking news and analysis on technology and politics. (By Adam Clayton Powell III) http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/15373.html Time Warner on Thursday quietly shut down Netly News, melding the operations of its Internet-beat news service and the online version of Time Digital.

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Matthew James Gering 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate wrote: > See above examples. Hell, take a look at the wet pet food > market now for a perfect example of why non-regulation is > a bad thing and why liability and other such buzz words > don't work in the real world. One thing that has changed fundamentally in the Information Age is the ability for the consumer to get informed -- the ease if information publishing and retrieval and the inability to control it. Reputation has more value then ever. If anything the government should insure information disclosure (and enforce laws against fraud). Don't prohibit transactions, let the consumer decide. For example the market will place a value on FDA approval, whether individuals will pay more for or only consume FDA approved items, whether insurance will cover non-approved items, etc (and the FDA should be funded fully by evaluation fees, it simply becomes a sort of brand, it sells reputation). Government cannot protect people from their own decisions, and should not have the right to take those decisions away. I wouldn't eat at McDonalds even with all the regulation. More often than not regulation is a false sense of security, and often protects companies from legitimate liability (although god knows our liability/tort system is completely out of whack). Matt

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Brown, R Ken 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Petro[SMTP:petro@playboy.com] wrote: > Sent: 01 October 1998 21:23 > >>I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing. Pick up any college >>(hell, high school) ecomonics textbook. Certain types of businesses are >>inheritly advantagious to monopolies. The electric company is the classic > >>example- their is no cost effective way for an electric company to > supply > >>power to a given area unless it is a monopoly. Certain types of > businesses > >>are suited to certain types of competition, and, unregulated, monopolies > >>are exactly what you get. This was exactly the situation that occured > at > >>the turn of the century and it happened because regulation was > >>non-existant! Your statement is wonderfully trite but I see no evidence > to > >>support it. > > I'd suggest you go back to school and think a bit.In most places >the "Electric Company" is a goverment sponsored and deligated monopoly. >Competition is prohibited by REGULATION. This also occurs with Gas, Water, >Telephone, especially Non-commercial, cable, and in some places Garbage >disposal. Nonsense. Most of those businesses became monopolies - or local monopolies - in the relatively unregulated 1880-1914 period. In some of them - like rail or oil in the USA - governments introduced regulation to *force* competition. In UK over the last 30 years government has used a thing called the "Monopolies and Mergers Commission" to investigate & (very occasionally) break up monopolies or cartels. Government introduced regulation to stop BT selling some products in order to allow competion to grow. Recently government has forcibly broken up gas supply monopolies in this country. I don't believe there are that many natural monopolies Where there *are* natural monopolies it is because the entry cost is higher than any likely profit. Obvious case is water. It would cost you a hell of a lot to guarantee water supply to my street in London without using the existing infrastructure. Probably hundreds of millions of pounds. I pay less than a hundred pounds a year for my water. Natural monopoly. What happens much more often is that one company becomes dominant and then uses money to undersell rivals. Or even buy them up. Maybe even pay more for them It seems to be a common personality characteristic of people who run big companies that they want to run even bigger ones. The worst enemy of small business is big business. Now, if you wanted to say that in most countries big business and government had their hands in each others pockets I'd agree with you. But sometimes governments realise that monopolies are bad - or the voters tell them that monopolies are bad - and they introduce regulation to enforce competition. Some other problems - in some businesses (like oil) the capital investment required is so large that although there is no natural monopoly the players ahve to be big. It might even be that there are some business (long-distance airlcraft?) where the natural number of players in the world market is 1 - there just aren't enough customers to justify 2 companies making the investment (which is maybe why European governments stepped in to create Airbus). Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection is different again. It's not at all a nutural monopoly and there is nothing stopping anyone offering to do it as a business. But it is a natural for social ownership, not private ownership. The trouble with rubbish is that I want my *neighbour's* rubbish to be collected as well as my own. I can pay for mine, but what if he can't pay for his? (Like what if he is an unemployable alcoholic, with severe Tourette's syndrome who stands on street corners for sometimes 24 hours at a stretch, singing old soul and gospel songs, yelling and screaming at anyone who comes close, and drinking can after can of cheap beer to calm himself down enough so he can get some sleep?). I don't want his rubbish on my street. The easiest way to arrange that is for the majority who want rubbish collection to band together to pay for it for everybody. And the easiest way to arrange that is through tax and local government. Same applies to education - I might be able to pay for my daughter to go to school but we want everybody else's kids to go to school as well because my life is better if they do. So we pay for it through tax. If I don't watch out this will turn into a list of the 6 reasons why, even though private business is nearly always more efficient, *some* enterprises need to be publically owned. Ken Brown (usual disclaimer - nothing to do with my employers) > -- > petro(a)playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. > petro(a)bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. > They REALLY > Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. >

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Re: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd)
by mark＠unicorn.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate <ravage(a)EINSTEIN.ssz.com> wrote: >> Judging by the state of software-piracy with PC software with 80-90%+ >> piracy rates, the market is already pretty much ok with ignoring >> copyright, and would be happy to have no copyrights. >So long as it isn't money your taking out of their pocket. There is an >obvious double standard at play in the piracy issue. Personally I get paid pretty well for writing software that's given away for free. Why? Because it sells our hardware, and hardware is much, much harder to copy than software (not to mention that the vast majority of sales are made in the first two or three months after releasing a new chip when a cloner would still be trying to get their silicon up and running). OTOH I just paid good money for a Linux CD. Why, when it's all free on the Web? Because it contains a full consistent set of software, ready compiled, and the time I'd spend hunting down all those packages by myself is far more valuable than the cost of the CD. The same could be said to apply to many of the other software packages I've bought in the past; yes, in theory I could copy them, but I don't know anyone who has a copy, so it would take longer to hunt it down for free than to pay for it up front. Software copyright really only benefits big companies like Microsoft. There are good reasons for buying software from other companies even if there was no copyright enforcement at gunpoint. Mark

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Re: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:12:29 -0700 (PDT) > From: mark(a)unicorn.com > Subject: Re: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd) > >So long as it isn't money your taking out of their pocket. There is an > >obvious double standard at play in the piracy issue. [irrelevent material deleted] > Software copyright really only benefits big companies like Microsoft. There No, it also protects the little guy who writes a nifty piece of code that lots of people want to use. > are good reasons for buying software from other companies even if there > was no copyright enforcement at gunpoint. If there was no copyright enforcement then the license agreements would be even more draconian than they are now. Not to mention that technology as a whole would be spread slower because companies wouldn't share it as easy as they do now because of the protection of copyright. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Fired!
by BeF6785＠mpifr-bonn.mpg.de 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: An Extension of My Encryption Algorithm WEAK3
by Mok-Kong Shen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A reported trouble with the runtime libraries (dll) has be removed. Those who have downloaded the WEAK binaries before 29th September please do the downloading once again. M. K. Shen

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Y2K: Wired: Your bank account is safe(?)
by Sunder 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:48:15 -0400 From: Salvatore Denaro <sal(a)panix.com> Subject: y2k: FDIC says that every dollar is safe... POL. Monday FDIC: BANK BALANCES Y2K PROOF Thirty-seven federally insured banks are not ready for Y2K, but don't panic. The head of the FDIC says that every single dollar will be safe. http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/explode-infobeat/politics/story/15283.… -- Salvatore Denaro sal(a)panix.com

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STUFFED IS NOW FASTER THAN EVER/WE HAVE 1,000S OF NEW MEGA-HOT FREE PICS!
by STUFFED NEWS DAILY 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

+ 30 MEGA HI-RES PICS + 5 SUPER-HORNY SEXY STORIES + SECURE SEX + HOW SEX BECAME DIRTY + LOVE AND MARRIAGE + BARK LIKE A DOG + DRUNK DRIVING WIERDOS + THE BEST OF EUREKA + WANNA BUY SOME TRASH ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/2/ <---- Welcome to today's issue of Stuffed. To read it you should click on the URL above. If it is not made clickable by your email program you will need to use your mouse to highlight the URL, copy it and then paste it into your browser (then press Return). This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/2/ <----

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Information on New Cellular Battery
by info＠oaktree.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Information on New Cellular Battery Hi: If you or a loved one has ever missed making or receiving a call on your Motorola Cellular Flip Phone because your battery lost power, you definitely want the All Day Battery from HITEC Group at http://www.alldaybattery.com. (If you don't have a Motorola Flip Phone or if you have a digital cellular phone this info is not for you.) The All Day Battery provides: 1. Extended Life: Minimum 5 hours of talk time and 36 hours of standby time on the oldest phones. Newer phones (more efficient) will get substantially more talk & standby time. 2. Patented Technology: The All Day Battery uses patented technology to protect it during the charging cycle and to insure you that you get the maximum charge the battery will hold. 3. Power Gauge: This battery has a true gauge display of the power left in the battery. Standard battery life indicators on cell phones only tells you that there is a voltage level in the battery - you may get a level 5 reading and the battery could lose total power in the next instant. 4. Battery Protection - The worst thing you can do to a battery is charge it. During the charging process other batteries are damaged or destroyed by heat and overcharging. The All Day Battery is protected from damage and the accurate power gauge tells you when it is fully charged. All other batteries try to protect against damage by never fully charging. 5. Two(2) Year Warranty: A "No Hassle" two-year warranty is part of every All Day Battery. Cell phones are critical for personal safety and are heavily used for important business activities. The All Day Battery is only $99.00 and provides security and functionality value that goes way beyond that cost. You can order direct on the Internet via a Verisign Secure site at http://www.alldaybattery.com. ############################################################################# This transmission is in compliance with "Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this E-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply to this E-mail address with the word "remove" in the subject line." #############################################################################

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US and Canadian Press Briefings
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The assurance that privacy is safe and sound is too consistently followed by the promise of a workable compromise between personal privacy and the 'legitimate needs of law enforcement.' I'm not a lawyer but I don't see any middle ground that accomodates both. Either the 5th ammendment stands or it falls. What exactly are they planning? They talk as if the groundwork has already been done and it's merely a matter of following through. Watch for some wierd stuff tied to a barley crop subsidy or an EPA appropriation. Are there other examples of this speech from overseas? Mike I can think of only one phrase suited to describe a state where the civil liberties are defined by the police agencies.

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re: microcurrency proposal
by Albert P. Franco, II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 16:20:35 -0700 >From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri(a)netcom.com> snip... >but I think this is a very promising approach. a company >can create a plugin that would support microcurrency charges >for web page hits very easily. > >here's how: the plugin interacts with any site that has >enabled it. it sends a code to the site using a protocol. >the site returns pages only upon a valid transaction request. >for regular browsers without the plugin, the message is, >"sorry, this page costs $.01, please download so-and-so >plugin". > ... >how would the cash charge work? when the person gets the >plugin, they give the plugin company their credit card >number. the company takes care of the problem of accruing >micro charges, keeping track of transactions/bills, and >billing the credit card in large amounts. > Here in Spain prepay telephone cards for cell phones are quite popular. The idea is that you buy a card for 5000 pesetas ($35) and make calls until it is exhausted then you get another. As a manner of getting something going why not charge $5 OR $10 for the download and discount away until the plug-in is empty. Obviously, there needs to be some way to make sure the customer doesn't tinker with the value remaining. Pretty much all of the technology for distribution is already easily available and as mentioned further on in your letter the amounts are so small that fraud shouldn't be too much of an issue. The page generators side is likewise straight forward as they collect the charge amount and plugin certificate number which they send as a file periodically to the plugin provider who verifies that no "major" fraud has occurred and then disburses the funds (minus commission) to the content provider. Don't get to nervous about the plugin certificate number. These numbers would not be used to link to a particular user, but rather to make sure that a $5 dollar cert only runs up $5 of charges after which it is blocked. >the problem is trying to transfer money to various individuals >if their microcharge accounts have a net positive value instead >of negative (in which case they would be charged their credit >card at the end of the month). how do you transfer this money? > This situation may be addressable in (at least) two ways. Issue a limited value plugin say for 50 cent increments or incorporate a mechanism for crediting the plugin. I prefer the first method since the second may make the system more vulnerable. >of course, I'm leaving the issue of taxes out of this, but >the microcharge company could be a point of collection for >them. > The plugin issuer should not be required to be an expert in international tax law. I think an annual statement of payments sent to the content provider would probably be sufficient. The concept is that the content provider has not sold services or content to 50,000 individuals but rather one customer. I think that pretty much all countries have existing methods of controlling and collecting taxes based on the income derived from sales activities. There is no need to make the task of the plugin issuer more difficult. >notice that none of what I am proposing above requires any >new infrastructure whatsoever, except a little programming >into a plugin. the distribution of the plugin is partly solved >in that plugins are already distributed all over the net >and understood by end-users. > As my suggestions above demonstrate, I agree that this is perhaps the most likely way that a "grassroots" based microcurrency system could actually get off the ground. There is absolutely nothing in this plan that mandates the participation of major financial entities, which seems to be a major bottleneck for other systems. (Besides the fact that the big guys don't seem interested in truly "micro" transactions) This is in fact something that could very well grow in Internet time scale rather than (conservative) bankers time. Al Franco, II

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IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD (fwd)
by Albert P. Franco, II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From: Jim Choate <ravage(a)einstein.ssz.com> >Three branches of government? Between the state and federal? > >I don't think so... > >There are *THREE* (3) EQUALY powered members in the government of the United >States of America; federal, state, and the people. > I think the original message speaks of executive, legislative, and judicial branches. As defined by the constitution this is, in fact, the federal government. As a matter of practice, most if not all, of the states are also divided this way. Article X which you quoted supports the tacit understanding that We, the people, are not actually THE government. We, the people, have, by this the supreme law of the land, authorized the formation and maintenance of a government which by this same document We authorize to govern us. I don't really see anywhere that says we can't revoke our authorization. But I also don't see anything that places We, the people, inside the government structures. Remember, there was a great deal of fuss made by the framers of that great document about giving the People too much power. That's why there were originally a lot of limits on direct election of top officials. Hell technically, we still don't directly elect the president. The electoral college does. We also cannot directly propose or implement legislation. Some states do allow this level of popular intervention but the sad fact is we still don't have a national referendum. The statement you made that, "There are *THREE* (3) EQUALLY powered members in the government of the United States of America; federal, state, and the people." Is simply not true. The states are no longer equals to the feds, and We the people are in today's world much less than equal to either. Al Franco, II

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NT5 Ships 96 years early!!!
by Sunder 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:15 -0400 From: Salvatore Denaro <sal(a)panix.com> Subject: NT5 Ships 96 years early >From the MS timeline: http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsNT5/workstation/default.asp WINDOWS NT SERVER 5.0 DECEMBER 30, 1899 -- Find out about Windows NT Server 5.0 and how it builds upon the strengths of version 4.0 to provide a platform that is faster, more reliable, and easier to manage. -- Salvatore Denaro sal(a)panix.com

2 1

Reputations for Sale
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 09:16:56 -0800 From: "Daniel J. Boone" <djb(a)alaska.net> Organization: ROMEA MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rah(a)shipwright.com Subject: Reputations for Sale Hi, Robert! Given your interest in reputation capital, I thought you would be amused to know that right now (9:11 AM Alaska time, 1:11 PM Eastern) there is a discussion going on at Http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBoard&name=qa regarding the sale of an online commercial reputation. Messages on this board scroll away in about two hours, so if you actually want to look, be quick. eBay, as you may know, is an online auction site where one can build a reputation through a numerical feedback mechanism. Someone is suggesting building up accounts until they have a respectable feedback level and then auctioning them off to new sellers who lack the patience to earn feedback the old-fashioned way. These are not folks who are clueful, for the most part, about such issues; it's just a business idea to this guy. I think it's fascinating. Take care -- Daniel P.S. If you think this would be of interest to any of your lists, feel free to repost it. I'd post it to Cypherpunks, but I'm not currently subscribed there. ================================================================= Daniel J. Boone | "No man's life, liberty, Robertson, Monagle & Eastaugh, P.C. | or property is safe when P.O. Box 21211 | the Legislature is in Juneau, Alaska 99802 | session." | (907) 586-3340 | --Judge Gideon J. Tucker Fax: 586-6818 | New York, 1866 ================================================================= --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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[E-CARM] WIPO Public Meeting w/ Prof. Michael Froomkin
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: c3po.kc-inc.net: majordomo set sender to owner-e-carm(a)lists.kc-inc.net using -f X-Sender: cdt9(a)pop.cais.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:20:30 -0400 To: e-carm(a)c3po.kc-inc.net From: Ari Schwartz <ari(a)cdt.org> Subject: [E-CARM] WIPO Public Meeting w/ Prof. Michael Froomkin Sender: owner-e-carm(a)c3po.kc-inc.net Precedence: bulk ***OPEN INVITATION TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE INTERNET COMMUNITY*** The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) is currently holding a series of public forums to discuss the intellectual property issues associated with Internet domain names, including dispute resolution. Michael Froomkin, Professor of Law at the University of Miami, was appointed this week to the WIPO experts panel. In order to foster greater public input into the WIPO process, Professor Froomkin will be holding an informal open meeting on Monday, October 5th at 9 a.m. to hear comments and concerns from the public interest community regarding this critical issue. All interested parties are invited to attend and contribute to this open discussion. Meeting with Michael Froomkin, WIPO experts panel member Monday, October 5 at 9 a.m. hosted by the Center for Democracy and Technology 1634 Eye Street NW, 11th Floor Call (202) 637-9800 for further details. ------------------------------------ Ari Schwartz Policy Analyst Center for Democracy and Technology 1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100 Washington, DC 20006 202 637 9800 fax 202 637 0968 ari(a)cdt.org http://www.cdt.org ------------------------------------ =========================================================================== Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/. Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection. =========================================================================== --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/7 (fwd)
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: goya.WPI.EDU: christof owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:30:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Christof Paar <christof(a)ece.WPI.EDU> To: DCSB <dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu> Subject: WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/7 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Christof Paar <christof(a)ece.WPI.EDU> Here we go again. Our seminar series starts next week on a regular base. -Christof ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- WPI Cryptography and Information Security Seminar Christof Paar, WPI REPORT ON THE ADVANCED ENCRYPTION STANDARD, AES Wednesday, October 7 4:00 pm, AK 108 (refreshments at 3:45 pm) It is probably widely known that DES expires as a federal encryption standard by the end of 1998. Currently NIST is overseeing the development of a new block cipher, AES, which will become the DES successor. The development process for AES is highly interesting as it has been (as of yet) been a public process: Everyone was able to submit candidate algorithms which are currently publicly reviewed. My talk will mainly follow the excellent presentations by Miles Smid, who is with NIST, at the AES1 and CRYPTO '98 conferences in August. I will briefly review the main requirements for AES and talk about the submitted algorithms. The talk will conclude with a description of how the AES selection process will continue. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DIRECTIONS: The WPI Cryptoseminar is being held in the Atwater Kent building on the WPI campus. The Atwater Kent building is at the intersection of West and Salisbury Street for those coming from outside. Directions to the campus can be found at http://www.wpi.edu/About/Visitors/directions.html TALKS IN THE FALL '98 SEMESTER: 8/12 Kris Gaj, George Mason University Quantum Computers and Classical Supercomputers as a Threat to Existing Ciphers. 10/6 Christof Paar, WPI Report on AES 10/14 David Finkel, WPI Performance and Security in Web-based Electronic Commerce 10/28 Thomas Blum, WPI Efficient FPGA Architectures for Public-Key Algorithms [other talks to be announced] See also http://ece.WPI.EDU/Research/crypt/seminar/index.html for abstracts of some of the talks. MAILING LIST: If you want to be added to the mailing list and receive talk announcements together with abstracts, please send me a short mail. Likewise, if you want to be removed from the list, just send me a short mail. Regards, Christof Paar ************************************************************************* Christof Paar http://ee.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html Assistant Professor email: christof(a)ece.wpi.edu Cryptography Group phone: (508) 831 5061 ECE Department, WPI fax: (508) 831 5491 100 Institute Road Worcester, MA 01609, USA ************************************************************************* For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request(a)ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Take Back the Constitution - the 4th Amendment
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:10:36 -0400 (EDT) From: ElectPD(a)earthlink.net To: rah(a)shipwright.com Subject: Take Back the Constitution - the 4th Amendment Take back the Constitution! Eye-catching Fourth Amendment bumper sticker available. Bold and daring (as are your constitutional rights). It reads, "I do not consent to a search of my vehicle, my person or my residence. So, don't ask. This individual is protected by the 4th Amendment." Http://home.earthlink.net/~electpd Link shows you photo of bumper sticker. It was created and produced by three Santa Clara County (California) deputy public defenders. It measures 15 inches by 3 inches (very large). Top quality materials and paints. $2 each or 6 for $10. +$4 for shipping via U.S. mail. Citizens to Elect Our Public Defender (in Santa Clara County, California). P. O. Box 71, San Jose, CA 95103. (408)996-8473. Bumper stickers mailed out same day order received., via first class mail and in protective envelopes ($1.50 to $3 for postage + $1 for the envelope - our cost). ___________________________________________________________ If you wish to be removed from the ElectPD future mailings, to include upcoming bumper stickers announcements, please reply with "Remove" in the subject line and your name will be removed from future mailings. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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ICANN (New IANA) as a Pawn in an Economic Struggle Between US and
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:42:56 -0400 Reply-To: cook(a)cookreport.com Originator: com-priv(a)lists.psi.com Sender: com-priv(a)lists.psi.com Precedence: bulk From: Gordon Cook <cook(a)cookreport.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <com-priv(a)lists.psi.com> Subject: ICANN (New IANA) as a Pawn in an Economic Struggle Between US and X-Comment: Commercialization and Privatization of the Internet I asked the question a few days ago: what could justify Ira's heavy handed tactics. What stakes could be large enough to risk the stability of the net? Here is an informed hypothesis based on a 90 minutes conversation with an expert source in these areas who has a heavy international background. (I have also reality checked this hypothesis with several knowledgable observers.) I am beginning to get an idea of what is at stake in the larger sense. Ira, I fear, is using the internet as a pawn in a far bigger game. The game is is inextricably linked with the privacy statutes of the OECD and the coming October 23th deadline for American companies doing business in Europe and data mining on European citizens as part of their ordinary activities. It is also inextricably linked with the international encryption debate. I have heard credible allegations that the US government is at such loggerheads with the OECD countries over the use of key recovery encryption and over the unwillingness of american big business to change its ways of gathering data on employees, customers, contractors etc that we are coming to the October 23th deadline with billions of dollars at stake and no solution. At the same time Ira has for the past three years focused on his mission with Tom Kalil and working through the National Economic and Security Council to setting up the internet as a mechanism for global economic commerce..... touting the net as a means on which, in a few year's time, the majority of the world's economy will depend. It looks as though Ira's agenda is to do this in such a way that the internet can be controlled by an American based, incorporated, non profit public authority set up under American law with a Board, purposefully established without fiscal restraints and without any oversight or accountability. And with board members who with a smattering of international representation can be made as subserviant as possible to the interests of the large American Corporations. These Board members, through the GIP, will be passing the cup to pay for the expenses of establishing ICANN. Consider Bill Burrington Director of Law and Public Policy and Assistant General Counsel at AOL, a company which huge data holdings. He is the chair of the Washington DC Internetactive Services Association which went on to form the Internet Alliance with membership very simalr to GIP. Burrington is manning the barricades of the companies involved in the privacy dispute with the oecd. (Why should Burrington care? Consider AOL's electronic profiles on its 12 million members) Consider also Andy Sernovitz of AIM whose members have the same general interests and who helped Barb Dooley of the CIX sell out the IFWP process. Did Jon Postel really refuse to attend the Harvard wrap up meeting or did Ira order him not to? So even if Ira looks heavy handed -- for this agenda to be used as the White House intends-- Ira needs to have his ducks in order in time for the OECD meeting in Canada that begins next week. He needs to demonstrate that he has enough power to have rammed through a solution at home. That is why things have turned nasty during the last week and why the iron fist is becoming seen with the incorporation of ICANN even though, by Ira's own allegedly free process, ICANN should not yet be seen as the winner. Ira is determined to confront the OECD next week with an Internet that *HE* and the White House clearly controls and to do so as a bargaining chip to use in getting our way against the Europeans and Asians and Canadians..... on the issues of encryption and privacy statutes. It would be instructive to see the legal basis of the governments arguments being used to get NSI to cave. Could it be that their content might be embarrising? If SAIC doesn't order NSI to sign Ira's demands by the seventh then Ira and the white house will not be as in control of the internet, as they need to demonstrate themselves to be, in order to use the internet as an american dominated global commerce weapon against the other OECD governments. The American view is that with the internet firmly in command of the White House on American corportate terms, the Asians and Europeans will have no choice but to back off their privacy and the American encryption demands. Remember also that Europe is trying to launch the Euro in such a way that it becomes the world's reserve currency. One would like to know whether the White House orders are do what ever is necessary to see that this effort fails. The Europeans and Asians understand perfectly well the power play that Ira is engaged in. They are not surprisingly seething with anger. American arrogance could be doing dangerous things. If we drive Europe and Asia into an economic and political alliance against us, we all will lose. Privacy, and the freedom to live our lives without government and corporate political or economic interference are at stake. *************************************************************************** The COOK Report on Internet White House Corrupts Formation of IANA 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 USA Corporation. White Paper a Sham. See (609) 882-2572 (phone & fax) http://www.cookreport.com/sellout cook(a)cookreport.com Index to 6 years of COOK Report, how to subscribe, exec summaries, special reports, gloss at http://www.cookreport.com *************************************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: ICANN (New IANA) as a Pawn in an Economic Struggle Between USand
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Not to disturb your exegetic reverie, here, Gord, but I asked Mr. Magaziner, when he spoke at at the Electronic Payments Forum earlier this month, in front of about 400 or so digital commerce and e$ types, the following question: "Given your administration's, um, success, in banning strong foriegn cryptography, how do you propose to ban it in the United States?" His answer then was that he was absolutely postively against key escrow or limits on cryptography of any kind. Besides stealing all my carefully worded thunder :-), he got a big round of applause. <grumble, grumble goddamn liberals, grumble, grumble> He also said that the major reason for the, um, complexity, of US crypto policy was that the administration's internet commerce types were fighting the law enforcent types tooth and nail about it. I want to smash the state as much as the next crypto-anarchist :-), but I figure this is what is happening. The spooks gave up on this crap long ago, and it's just the cops standing in front of the steamroller now. Money trumps crime-FUD, just like it did spook-FUD. F=MA, and all that. :-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga "There's the conspiracy theory of history, where elites conspire to shape events behind the scenes, the fuck-up theory of history, where elites fuck up and conspire to cover it behind the scenes, and the fucked-up conspiracy theory of history, where elites conspire to shape events, fuck up, and conspire to cover it up behind the scenes. My favorite theory is the latter." -- (An as-yet Unremembered) Mizzou History Prof or, in the spirit of William of Occam, "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." --Jerry Pournelle ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Federal Power Grab Threatens Your Rights
by Gun Owners of America 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Massive New Power Grab By The Feds -- gun owners' constitutional rights in jeopardy Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 http://www.gunowners.org First, an update on Smith's "Anti-Brady" amendment: The pro-gun Smith amendment that passed the Senate in July is still awaiting action in a House-Senate conference committee. In fact, the House still has yet to pick the House conferees. GOA will keep you updated on this important legislation which would put the brakes on FBI's ability to register and tax gun owners. Keep calling your legislators (202-224-3121) and urge them to oppose the Commerce-Justice-State bill UNLESS it keeps the Smith language 100 percent intact. (Friday, October 2, 1998)-- Rep. Bob Barr has discovered that Janet Reno's Department of Justice (DOJ) is shopping around a legislative "wish list" to further erode our constitutional liberties. They are hoping to take advantage of the chaotic situation in Washington to "load up" an appropriations bill with a number of frightening expansions of federal power: * Enlarged asset forfeiture provisions to allow the FBI to seize personal property in both criminal and civil matters (your entire gun collection would be at risk) * A vastly expanded definition of terrorism to include domestic crimes having no relationship to terrorism (fighting "terrorism" is a new tactic of the gun grabbers, especially since the Supreme Court has stated that the Commerce Clause is no longer sufficient) * The ability to commandeer personnel from other federal agencies without reimbursement (just in case they need more agents for the next Waco) * Authority to force telephone and Internet companies to divulge information on their customers without a warrant (someone posts a message threatening the President to a gun list, and the feds demand the names and addresses of everyone who received the offending message) * Expanded wiretap authority to allow "roving" wiretaps of innocent citizens and gun owners, and wiretaps without any court authority whatsoever (so much for the Fourth Amendment) * Loosening of Posse Comitatus restrictions to allow more military involvement in domestic law enforcement (further blurring the line between police and military, which means destroying targets rather than making arrests) * The establishment of a permanent "FBI Police Force" (one could only speculate as to how bad this would be) * The power to seize commercial transportation assets for federal use (like the rest of the wish list, there is zero constitutional authority for this). In an era in which agencies of the federal government routinely target law-abiding gun owners for persecution, such assaults on our constitutional rights must be stopped. HERE'S WHAT TO DO: Contact your Representative and both Senators. Urge them to oppose any DOJ expansion of power through the appropriations process. Call 202-224-3121 or hit the GOA website at http://www.gunowners.org for phone, fax and e-mail of individual Congressional offices. Tell them to keep Smith in, and to keep the FBI out! **************************************************************** Did someone else forward this to you? To be certain of getting up to date information, please consider subscribing directly to the GOA E-Mail Alert Network. The service is totally free and carries no obligation. Your e-mail address remains confidential, and the volume is quite low, usually one or two messages per week. To subscribe, simply send a message (or forward this notice) to goamail(a)gunowners.org and indicate your state of residence in either the subject or the body. To unsubscribe, reply to any alert and ask to be removed.

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A Number Theory Problem....
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- A: 533

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Re: Why do we need remailers, anyway?
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Reeza! wrote: > > ... the First Adulterer/Purjurer, you question why I > call him this > No, I'm questioning why you're telling *me* about it. -- an anonymous AOL32 user

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Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Richard, you seem to be missing one of the major reasons behind the little schism developing here. You say that proprietary software developers shouldn't expect the GNU project to help them for nothing in return. Thing is, Cypherpunks *want* to help with crypto -- even if those we help make proprietary software, and even if we get nothing for our help -- and if GNU folks don't do that, well, we just won't be GNU folks. (More generally (and more abrasively), we'd like to make a license suited to our goals -- meaning one promoting placement of easy-to-use cryptography wherever it can be useful (including (gasp) in proprietary software) and discouraging the spread of incompetently-done, weak, or escrowed crypto -- and the GNU GPL just isn't it) By the way, regarding the GNU GPL's interaction with export regs: In general, the fact that action A is illegal does not mean you must include a requirement in your distribution terms not to do A. ... I agree that what you say is correct and, logically, should apply to crypto regs*, but in practice, failing to include the requirement you mention is asking for trouble. Ask Cypherpunks if you want to know more about that, as I believe elaboration in this post would draw <ahem>s from our beloved retromoderator. * Logically, crypto regs shouldn't even exist in a marginally free society, but, again, this is deep in <ahem> territory.

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Ozeafood.com - Update and Special Offer
by Adam Yared 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Attention: Seafood Traders _______________________________________________ We would like to introduce the premier Seafood Information Resource for Australian Seafood Importers and Exporters and Seafood Traders from around the world. Over 6 months of extensive R&D has resulted in a simple, usefull online trading system designed specifically for the industry. Ozeafood.com is a searchable database of Australian Seafood Importers and Exporters and their products. The member has full control over their own listing of products via a management section. Advanced features of the service allow members to update their pricing and stock information, and trade seafood online. Take advantage of our special 60 day trial offer. Go to www.ozeafood.com and enter your companies details. For information via autoresponder send Email to options(a)ozeafood.com If you would like to discuss an Internet Marketing Strategy, please call us on 1800 506 516 ( Australian Residents Only ) Ozeafood.com - Australian Seafood Information Resource _____________________________________________ Website - www.ozeafood.com Email - info(a)ozeafood.com Phone Int + 617 5445 8884 Fax Int + 617 5445 8193

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Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #29
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text From: editor-bounce(a)netsurf.com Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:22:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: smtp2.zocalo.net: editor set sender to editor-bounce(a)netsurf.com using -f Subject: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk NETSURFER DIGEST More Signal, Less Noise Volume 04, Issue 29 Wednesday, September 30, 1998 <snip> BREAKING SURF Credit Card Data Compromised at Online Auction Sites Mark Dodd owns AuctionWatch, a neat auction site information center. He was running searches on the major search engines and by sheer accident uncovered a security hole in some software used by many of the online auction houses. It's a big one, too. If the auction site misconfigures its software, and apparently many do, the first happy hacker to come along can steal its customers' credit card numbers and addresses. Mark went to CNet with the story, which warned many of the affected sites of the potential havoc and scooped up a good story in the process. Remember, the safety of your credit card data is only as good as the security savvy of the webmaster guarding it. AuctionWatch: <http://www.auctionwatch.com/> http://www.auctionwatch.com/ CNet: <http://www.news.com/SpecialFeatures/0,5,26760,00.html> http://www.news.com/SpecialFeatures/0,5,26760,00.html <http://adex3.flycast.com/server/socket/127.0.0.1:2800/click/NetsurferDigest… ernetnews/123456> New Hacker Tactic: Slow, Coordinated Attacks from Multiple Locations A clever new twist in the evolutionary arms race between hackers and online security forces gives us an excuse to bring you this fascinating Web site. Hackers, it seems, have discovered herding behavior. Their latest tactic is to coordinate probes and attacks against online sites from a large number of separate machines and over a long period of time. By limiting probes to rates as low as two per hour and dispersing their sources, hackers can probe beneath current security software's threshold of detection. The Navy Cooperative Intrusion Detection Evaluation and Response team (CIDER) just released a report on the technique. The CIDER site is also worth visiting for information on security and intrusion detection software projects, notably a database comparing commercial and government tools. Cool spook stuff. CIDER: <http://www.nswc.navy.mil/ISSEC/CID/> http://www.nswc.navy.mil/ISSEC/CID/ Report: <http://www.nswc.navy.mil/ISSEC/CID/co-ordinated_analysis.txt> http://www.nswc.navy.mil/ISSEC/CID/co-ordinated_analysis.txt <snip> CONTACT AND SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION Netsurfer Digest Home Page: Subscribe, Unsubscribe: Frequently Asked Questions: Submission of Newsworthy Items: Letters to the Editor: Advertiser and Sponsor Inquiries: Netsurfer Communications: <http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/>http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/ <http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/subscribe.html>http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/subscribe. html <http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/ndfaq.html>http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/ndfaq.html <mailto:pressroom@netsurf.com>pressroom(a)netsurf.com <mailto:editor@netsurf.com>editor(a)netsurf.com <mailto:sales@netsurf.com>sales(a)netsurf.com <http://www.netsurf.com/>http://www.netsurf.com/ CREDITS Publisher: Arthur Bebak Editor: Lawrence Nyveen Contributing Editor: Production Manager: Bill Woodcock Copy Editor: Elvi Dalgaard Netsurfer Communications, Inc. President: Arthur Bebak Vice President: S.M. Lieu Writers and Netsurfers: Sue Abbott Regan Avery Kirsty Brooks Judith David Joanne Eglash Lisa Hamilton Jay Mills Elizabeth Rollins Kenneth Schulze NETSURFER DIGEST © 1998 Netsurfer Communications, Inc. All rights reserved. NETSURFER DIGEST is a trademark of Netsurfer Communications, Inc. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: A Number Theory Problem
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry > 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel > has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of > bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas. My first camel put 2000 bananas at 200 miles then 1001 bananas at 533 miles then left 1 banana at mile 533 and sprinted for home, arriving with 533 bananas My second camel put 2000 bananas at 200 miles then 1001 bananas at 533 miles then ate 1 banana at mile 533 and found the energy to move the 1000 bananas to mile 534 and sprinted for home, arriving with 534 bananas My third camel put 2000 bananas at 200 miles then 1001 bananas at 533 miles then ate 1 banana at mile 533 and found the energy to move the 1000 bananas to mile 534 and sprinted for home, arriving with 535 bananas figuring he'd pay for his last mile with credit. My fourth camel, the biggest strongest camel, was already waiting at the destination and charged each of the other camels a 50% banana tax, rounded up to the nearest banana, plus a 10 banana collection fee and left with 832 bananas and didn't have to do anything but paperwork while the other camels were now short of bananas and had to find a new way to get more bananas. Mike

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2 books of potential interest...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, I was in Bookstop a while ago and noticed two books that could be of potential interest. The first I didn't buy, "We were soldiers once....and young", about the Ia Drang valley incident in Nov. of 65 (I had stated it was in '64 in the discussion about "The Best and Brightest"). It is written from notes and interviews with the survivors apparently. For those who are interested in the issues that were involved in the Vietnam War it may be of some use. The Law Enforcement Handbook D. Rowland, J. Bailey ISBN 1-56619-471-7 $6.98 (in the cheap books section) Looks to discuss a majority of police proceedures and details the items of interest to police officers in performing their duty. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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IP: Wired News: Report of military personnel medical records hackis FALSE
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point(a)majordomo.pobox.com From: Bridget973(a)aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:10:54 EDT To: ignition-point(a)majordomo.pobox.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: IP: Wired News: Report of military personnel medical records hack is FALSE Sender: owner-ignition-point(a)majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: Bridget973(a)aol.com http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/15372.html Pentagon Takes Back Hack Wired News Report 7:45 p.m. 1.Oct.98.PDT The US Department of Defense said Thursday last week's report of crackers penetrating military Web sites and altering soldiers' medical files were inaccurate. Instead, a "Red Team" of American military computer experts carried out a simulated attack designed to test the security of the Pentagon's computer networks, said a spokeswoman for the Defense Department. "The simulated attack is part of the recent exercises to assess the danger to unclassified material, such as personnel records," Suzan Hansen said Thursday. The confusion arose last week, when Money told the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association Conference that crackers had accessed a medical database in the southeastern United States and changed blood types in soldiers' records. Hansen said that Money was merely referring to a Red Team exercise, not a real cyberattack. At the conference, Money reportedly said that the Red Team exercise prompted the Pentagon to develop a more restrictive security policy on the type of information that will be stored in military computers connected to the Internet. -- bridget973(a)aol.com Black Helicopters on the Horizon: http://members.xoom.com/bridget973 ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo(a)majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Long-time DCSBers will remember Unicorn's talk on money laundering to us a few years ago... This more recent rant of his on the Digital Bearer Settlement list is about the best articulation of his position that I've seen him write. Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text From: "Black Unicorn" <unicorn(a)schloss.li> To: <tboyle(a)rosehill.net>, "dbs" <dbs(a)philodox.com> Subject: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense. Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:57:51 -0600 Keywords: dbs MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: <dbs(a)philodox.com> Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: <mailto:requests@philodox.com?subject=subscribe%20dbs> X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ tboyle(a)rosehill.net comments: [...] > But I simply cannot comprehend the breadth of the agreement > on this dbs conference, and depth of conviction, that DBS money > should be designed with the **deliberate objective** of being > untraceable, for purposes of law enforcement or taxation. In the case of some DBS advocates you are overstating the matter. In the case of others, vastly understating it. > I have a lot of respect for you guys' intellect but I think > you're wrong on two fundamental points: > > 1. Rule of law. Money laundering is a critical piece in > organized crime. The democratic countries have banking laws. > Do you think these laws should be followed, or NOT? (Scurrying > of feet as all the DBS readers avoid answering.) Well let's examine this. The view that all democratic countries have banking laws really begs the question. "What are the differences between said laws." I can tell you with solid authority, they are many. I've often repeated this story here and elsewhere. It's all a matter of public record. Set the way-back-machine to just after Reagan has entered office. Ole Ron began to crack down on tax evasion and in particular offshore havens. Taxes would be cut, it was reasoned, but only if loopholes were filled and evaders rooted out. (Those of us old enough to remember might even recall nodding at the sense of it). This policy was particular hard on certain Caribbean nations. This was the time of operation Tradewinds (search for it in the congressional record) and other IRS black projects where the IRS actually violated local law to spy on foreign banks even going so far as to drug guards, steal the briefcases of banking executives, perform unwarranted searches, bribe foreign officials and all manner of nonsense to root out tax evaders which might also be U.S. citizens. For a long while there was a project which opened and Xeroxed all the incoming mail at JFK which appeared to originate from offshore havens. This wasn't in the 50's mind you, but the 80s. It was acts like these which prompted the Swiss to strengthen their banking secrecy during the Second World War. Just another day in the park in the U.S. Just recently this year Mexico nearly indicted several U.S. law officials for breaking Mexican law during the investigation of several Mexican banks. Clearly the practice hasn't abated much in the last 15 years.. (Note also that today all these methods (except for drugging guards maybe) have their legal equivalents in the United States, which is in itself a powerful statement). This continued for some time back when Ron was at the helm until the United States finally began to threaten to revoke the U.S. charters of certain banks it considered uncooperative. At this point a visitor, unannounced, flew into D.C. and literally dropped by the White House with no press coverage or fanfare at all in the late evening. That visitor was Margaret Thatcher and she proceeded to explain to Ron over the course of a few hours that if he kept it up many of the British Protectorates would literally have their economies crippled. Literally overnight the matter was dropped and the offshore centers left to quietly continue their business. So much for democratic countries with universal ideas about banking law, or the rule of "law and order" in banking regulation. This is but one example. So: Rule of Law - means little in the global-political scheme of things Democratic Countries Have Banking Laws - none of which are consistent or consistently applied Money Laundering is a Key Piece of Organized Crime - This begs a definition of Money Laundering. "Concealing the proceeds of a criminal act" sounds legitimate, but consider that it has been held to apply to a store clerk who sold food stamps for cash and deposited the proceeds in his personal (non-anonymous) checking account: Indicted in Federal Court for Money Laundering with a maximum possible term of 35 years. (This is a prosecutorial tactic to get a guilty plea to the basic theft charge). Consider also that third parties often take it on the chin with the wide definition currently applied. Case in point: Ma and Pa travel agency innocently accepts a deposit from notorious attorney of drug dealer. Their entire holding account is seized including the deposits of some 700 other potential travelers. After 7 years of fighting the seizure, the money is finally returned, without interest. (Effectively halfing the value of the funds). The business is ruined, its reputation in tatters. Ma and Pa fight it out in bankruptcy, lose their house, most of their retirement proceeds, etc. In the process this case sets the precedent that any amount of illicit funds ($1) deposited in any size account ($500 million) will render the entire account liable to seizure and permit it to be held in lieu of forfeiture hearings. That can go on for 7 years or so. Money which is "laundered" has its title literally revert to the U.S. Treasury. This means third parties who innocently accept these funds are liable for their return, even if they are passed on in the course of business. Beginning to seem silly? Money laundering is an invented offense. It's definition in the United States has grown so broad so as to be laughable, if not so frightening. Do not think that these are isolated incidents. So, money laundering in its commonly understood sense might be key to organized crime, but what passes for money laundering in the United States has little to do with it. Myth: Money Laundering laws have a serious impact on organized crime. This is increasingly nonsense. The United States spends close to $22,000.00 to seize $1.00 of illicit funds. Money Laundering today is extremely sophisticated and enforcement doesn't catch the drug dealers, it catches professional money launderers. Today if you are a drug lord you drop $30 million in cash with a professional launderer who cuts you a "clean" check for 85% of that figure or so on the spot and takes the risk of laundering the funds on his own. Myth: Money Laundering can be detected accurately and effectively and leads to drug and organized crime convictions. Nonsense. Assume for sake of argument that you could detect 99% of fraudulent transactions with the measures in place (entirely impossible) and that your false positive rate was only 1% (also entirely impossible). SWIFT alone processes $2 trillion per day. That's on the order of $600 trillion per year, just in SWIFT. (Add another $1.3 billion for CHIPS and $989 million for Fedwire daily. Oh, don't forget the foreign exchange markets, oh and NYSE, oh and NASDAQ, oh and international letters of credit, oh and...) The most sinister estimates of the global criminal economy (primarily drug money) run around $400 billion per year. Your false positives will identify $6 trillion in naughty funds that are actually pure just in SWIFT. Your correct hits will identify $396 billion in naughty funds in all systems worldwide. In this example you will have 15 times as many false hits as correct hits ignoring the lionshare of world financial systems. This is under the very best of circumstances. It's a losing game.. It's a game only the mathematically challenged or politically motivated will play. In fact, money laundering is a tack on offense that is brought to bear after an arrest on other charges has been made. The number of cases that originate with a money laundering investigation is vanishingly small. The payment system today eats up over 1.5% of the GNP primarily because of nonsense regulations like CTR's and other transaction reporting requirements which can cost up to $15 per transaction and (as we see above) have little if any effect on professional money laundering. Given these numbers the degree of "fraud" in the world financial system is far better than in the credit card system, which has pretty much reached equilibrium. (Fraud accounts for about 5% of credit card costs. Customer service accounts for about 15%). > There is a certain logic in the notion of having a legislative > process and laws. Our laws in the U.S. weren't written by > angels up in heaven, but they are better than some other places. In the case of money laundering regulation I should say almost _no_ other places. > If DBS participants advocate that money laundering laws are > not to be followed, I'm sorry but YOU GUYS have the burden > of logically arguing your position. So shut up and quit > raggin' on *me* about it. I would just like to see them applied with rationality. It's fairly clear that that's too much to ask of the United States. Interestingly enough it's typically multi-party systems of government that have a balanced approach to money laundering. Perhaps this is because grandstanding with things like "the war on drugs" isn't as effective outside of a two party system. Sheds new light on your comment about democracies and banking regulations. Some jurisdictions get along quite well without the nonsense perpetrated in the United States. Like Switzerland. Switzerland has one of the nicest things in a cash economy I have seen. A freely circulated 1000CHF note. It's worth about $750. (The United States phased out $500 bills long ago to deal with laundering). In Switzerland you can drop a 1000CHF note at a restaurant and no one bats an eye. In the U.S. you cant take a cab home from the International Terminal unless you have something smaller than a $50. Somehow Switzerland has manage to survive without looting in the streets and rampant crime. Luxembourg is in a similar situation. I tried to purchase a car some years ago outside of D.C. with cash. Completely legitimate transaction. No interest nonsense for me to worry about. No waiting for the car while the check clears. Simple. Right? The dealership called the police, convinced they were striking a blow against drug dealers. It's really gone too far. > 2. Practicality. Without at least a fig leaf of cooperation > with banking authorities and other police, DBS will not be > permitted. Transactions denominated in DBS won't be enforceable > in courts, and fraud won't be a crime. Reporting fraud in DBS > deal would be like reporting a fraud in purchase of heroin. Practicality? Of course any student of political science will understand that where government enforcement of contracts fails or falls short, organized crime tends to move in. Reporting fraud in the purchase of heroin to the right enforcement cartel tends to be much more effective in rendering results than U.S. courts I'd wager. Clearly, the United States would not benefit by forcing DBS underground. Several jurisdictions will permit DBS and enforce it. (I'm involved in the legislative process for one such law in a European jurisdiction now). If you believe that DBS should be outlawed then you must agree that cash should be outlawed. There is effectively no difference but velocity. > The principal reason for failure of electronic money, other > than cards used in physical establishments, is you can't trust > the seller to send you the goods. That's why everybody is > using credit cards, and bearing the 2-3% charge for "insurance". > > You guys seem to think untraceable DBS will be accepted, if > only a good enough encryption algorithm can be found???? 1% of the GNP. Instant 1% growth for changing a system of clearing. Think about that for awhile. > I think your ideas have a fatal, logical weakness. Without > any practical means to verify who got your money, or even > a legal *right* to enforce a contract, what good is dbs? > It's not even money. It's more like a coupon or something. What you are missing is that all your arguments apply equally to cash. Why is cash used if this is so? Prove to me that you just gave me six $100 bills. You are, "without any practical means to verify who got your money or even a legal *right* to enforce a contract" if the transaction is larger than $500. If only we could be rid of this pesky cash would could eliminate organized crime forever. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:55:00 -0400 To: tboyle(a)rosehill.net Cc: dbs(a)philodox.com Subject: Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense. Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Ryan Lackey <ryan(a)venona.com> Sender: <dbs(a)philodox.com> Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: <mailto:requests@philodox.com?subject=subscribe%20dbs> X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ Also Sprach Todd Boyle (tboyle(a)rosehill.net) > > * If thieves could hide the money they stole, there would be substantial > increase in frequency and severity of theft; I think this is definitely true. Particularly if it is *easy* to hide the money stolen, as criminals may be expert in a particular field of crime that is *not* financial -- it's already easy for a white-collar criminal to hide money, using the same skills used in white-collar crimes of other sorts, but not so easy for an armed robber. > * Reducing trackability of money increases the severity and frequency > of collusive crimes. Reducing trackability and improving the velocity of money *does* do this, but it's a side effect of the more important (and wider spread) effect of useful forms of money: increasing the severity and frequency of all kinds of collusion and cooperation! This is what money is for -- exchange. That criminal exchange uses DBS is just saying that criminal exchange is a form of exchange. > > In mean time, managing the out-of-control government sector is your civic > duty, to your less intelligent wives, Heh...I'd be afraid of saying this if I were married or ever planning to be :) On an archived list, no less... :) > > You need a coherent argument on this problem. You need measures within > the DBS technology itself, to address the need. Opponents of DBS will > raise all these demagogic arguments. You'll be hooted off the podium. This technology is layered (ooh, bad word to use in relation to money and payment systems :). I think you will agree with me that the correct place for financial restraints (particularly voluntary ones, for auditing purposes, which IMO are the most important -- it allows you to say you are doing something, specify how it can be measured, and then have it measured, rather than just having some vague after-the-fact threat of enforcement if they catch you) on digital token money is not at the following layers: * Sub-atomic layer * Atomic layer * Hardware layer * Network connection layer and you seem to be making the case that it doesn't belong at the human/legal layer. However, there are two layers in the middle: * application (core DBS protocols, etc.) and * presentation (graphical clients, etc.) I believe the correct place for any voluntary restraints on DBS money is not at the DBS protocol layer, but at a higher level. This can be built into the clients people choose to use for managing their money, generate auditing reports, etc. This provides people with the freedom to use clients tailored to their legal requirements -- a corporation's internal financial system should be far more complicated and constrained than my personal wallet -- and makes it relatively easy for everything to interoperate. You can even design things at the levels higher than the DBS level to escrow parts of coins with third parties, this requiring their participation or approval for any transaction -- sort of a "registered DBS system". If you believe taxes are a worthwhile thing, a government could mandage the use of such a system where the IRS was a party to each and every transaction. This would work perfectly well technically, and would not compromise the integrity of the protocols -- it's just a business decision on the part of an issuer of electronic cash. It's easy to see how this could work with insurance schemes, split control of coins, etc. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Privacy and the internet
by Jason Burton 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone know what I should do if someone was posting sensitive information on a website? And what if the webmaster of the domain doesnt respond to the request for removal of information. IS there something that say's what is and isn't able to be published "personal information" on the internet. If someone can reply I'd appreciate it. Seeking council. Jason Burton - Starloop Security security(a)starloop.com

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Will Price (NAI employee) on KRA
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This comment on NAI's KRA(P) membership by Will Price <wprice(a)pgp.com>, a crypto type who works for PGP was forwarded to the ukcrypto list by Ian Goodyer (uk-crypto list admin). Not sure where it was posted originally, or perhaps Will asked Ian to forwarded it. Adam ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:43:07 +0000 To: ukcrypto(a)maillist.ox.ac.uk From: "Ian D. Goodyer" <goodyer(a)well.ox.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Escrow - news Here is a response from Will Price who was formally from PGP inc and now of course is with NAI. ian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've commented about this on this list before I believe. This appears to be a case of really old news suddenly being dredged up for no apparent wholesome reason -- which strikes me as quite odd because Wired was apparently so eager to break this ancient story that they didn't wait to ask anyone from NAI about it. NAI being listed on the KRA page is *solely* a result of our TIS acquisition. I really doubt anyone here actually called some KRA person and officially renewed our membership. Frankly, I doubt anyone here actually knows who to talk to there -- if there even is a "there". As I have said before, due to the TIS acquisition, NAI now has a bunch of products which contain key escrow features. Eliminating or modifying these features such that they work in a less big brother-like fashion will take significant time -- indeed entire TIS products were based around managing key escrow infrastructures. Don't get me wrong, TIS had a lot of other great products, but it will take time to redesign and rethink some of them in the context of export and key escrow. I'm not sure there's much point in withdrawing from KRA when those products still exist. These issues have no effect whatsoever on the PGP group. As always, we continue to publish full source code which effectively solves all the export issues for us. Robert Guerra wrote: > I just picked this up from another mailing list that I am on. Perhaps the > folks at NAI can clarify things? > > - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:55:06 +0000 > From: Ross Anderson <Ross.Anderson(a)cl.cam.ac.uk> > Reply-To: ukcrypto(a)maillist.ox.ac.uk > To: ukcrypto(a)maillist.ox.ac.uk > Subject: Escrow - news > > (1) Network Associates has quietly rejoined the Key Recovery Alliance > - - see http://www.kra.org. - -- Will -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 iQA/AwUBNkySo6y7FkvPc+xMEQIuygCfYosXGISVrKd4dYWwM8xOrVdd4WAAn3dT XvDG6FMapZpjmvjucF67fwM5 =xa+R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Will Price, Architect/Sr. Mgr., PGP Client Products Total Network Security Division Network Associates, Inc. Direct (408)346-5906 Cell/VM (650)533-0399 <pgpfone://cast.cyphers.net> PGPkey: <http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCF73EC4C> ------- End of forwarded message -------

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Privacy and the internet (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 04:46:03 -0500 > From: Jason Burton <talon(a)who.net> > Subject: Privacy and the internet > > Seeking council. > That's exactly what you should do, get a lawyer. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Welcome to the Risk Professionals Discussion Area!
by garp＠chadmarc.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thank you for participating in our conferencing system, John. Please save this message. It contains important information, such as your login name and password (see below). Our web conferencing offers online Help for all major features. If you have questions about a feature, look for the help button on the menubar. Here is your login information. Be sure to keep it somewhere safe! Your Login Name: cypherpunks Your Password: cypherpunks You can change your password, email address, and other items by selecting "Profiles" from the "More" button on the menubar. Please be sure to come back and visit us at: http://chat.bccg.com:8080/~GARP We hope you enjoy participating in our conferences! Sincerely, garp(a)chadmarc.com

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Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text From: "Michael Alexander" <mfa(a)alpha.univie.ac.at> To: <dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense. Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:52:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Michael Alexander" <mfa(a)alpha.univie.ac.at> >From: "Black Unicorn" <unicorn(a)schloss.li> > That's on the order of $600 >trillion per year, just in SWIFT. (Add another $1.3 billion for CHIPS and >$989 million for Fedwire daily. Oh, don't forget the foreign exchange as a minor correction, SWIFT 's main service is to exchange payment messages to feed into e.g. Fedwire or CHIPS so that would be double counting >The payment system today eats up over 1.5% of the GNP primarily because of >nonsense regulations like CTR's and other transaction reporting ... >1% of the GNP. Instant 1% growth for changing a system of clearing. Think >about that for awhile. slowly on that: payment systems costs represent what economists call 'specific taxes' that is they inflict deadweight losses on the economy. More efficient payment instruments such as some being based on bearer certificates would per se lower GDP but lead to higher demand in theory. Its effect would be as instant as a cut in other broad ones such as income or capital gains that is it involves lag. On the actual percentage of payment systems costs as % of GDP my estimates are way higher. By simply taking clearing float days of the major retail, business and interbank instruments, the figure is more like >2% with current (low) interest for the U.S. and even higher for Europe. This does not take into account that a more efficient payment system with a higher money velocity would lower the demand for transaction money among other effects. Michael For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request(a)ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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NSA on OS Flaws
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

An NSA team presented at NISSC98 in October "The Inevitability of Failure: The Flawed Assumption of Security in Modern Computing Environments:" http://jya.com/paperF1.htm (62K) Abstract Although public awareness of the need for security in computing systems is growing rapidly, current efforts to provide security are unlikely to succeed. Current security efforts suffer from the flawed assumption that adequate security can be provided in applications with the existing security mechanisms of mainstream operating systems. In reality, the need for secure operating systems is growing in todays computing environment due to substantial increases in connectivity and data sharing. The goal of this paper is to motivate a renewed interest in secure operating systems so that future security efforts may build on a solid foundation. This paper identifies several secure operating system features which are lacking in mainstream operating systems, argues that these features are necessary to adequately protect general application-space security mechanisms, and provides concrete examples of how current security solutions are critically dependent on these features. Keywords: secure operating systems, mandatory security, trusted path, Java, Kerberos, IPSEC, SSL, firewalls. ----- The paper advocates greater research on vulnerabilities of operating systems which allow malicious attackers to circumvent application-level security, including cryptographic protection. Ways to get around hardware and software crypto are outlined. Covert channels are a prime concern, as well as benign use inadverdently allowing malicious intrusion. An extensive list of references trace the twenty-five year history of OS flaws and examine why so little has been done to correct known deficiencies which undermine seemingly unbreachable applications. Readings about DTOS, Fluke, Flash and other developments of the NSA-sponsored Synergy program are illuminating. The recent republication of early compsec documents by CSRC is appropriate to this topic, particularly, "Subversion: The Neglected Aspect of Computer Security," by Philip Myer, June 1980, a thesis at NPS: http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/history/myer80.pdf Not that NSA would ever exploit OS weaknesses not warned about. ----- Thanks to JM/RH for pointing to the NISSC papers.

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Shouldn't we be using "Mr. Cordian's" real name? Matt Blaze (mab(a)research.att.com) also occasionally known as "M.F. Tones", and even less often as "Mr. Rouge" (There should be an accent mark there actually).

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nm web site
by bill payne 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Saturday 11/14/98 6:13 PM John Young http://www.jya.com/index.htm J Orlin Grabbe http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ As a result of jy's persuasive arguments http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm, we are going to put up a web site. But unlike you-all's sites ours will be somewhat positive 1 masm mixed language programming ... and Microsoft bugs 2 8032 forth programming and hardware 3 pc hardware 4 pro se litigation against the government 5 cypto nonsense 6 ... But, most important, we have learned by your pioneering web information dissemination efforts. And mistakes at other websites. Like bouncing balls. You guys, in my opinion, are the some of the most brilliant, perhaps with the exception of the X-rated sites, at getting the info out there. And yes, we will use THUMBNAIL photos. Of schematics, main boards, .... etc. Simplicity exudes brilliance. Perhaps there is a converse? Thoughtfully, I hope bill

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