December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Nowhere Justice
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A distinguishing feature of the complaints and indictments of suspects in the African Embassy bombings is the use of the phrase "in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, as that term is defined in Title 18, United States Code, Section 7(3), and outside the jurisdiction of any particular state or jurisdiction," to apparently lay claim to the legal right of the US to arrest and imprison terrorist suspects for acts in any location where US law customarily would not be valid: http://jya.com/alqfiles.htm Would any of our legal advisors know the origin of that phrase "outside the jurisdiction of any particular state or jurisdiction?" Is this new, and devised to reduce conflict with other states who may harbor terrorists, or perhaps prevent them from being terrorist targets for cooperating with the US?

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1999 San Antonio/Austin Guide to Business Technology
by Jennifer Stinson-- BDSI 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Prospective Buyers are Asking for Information about Your Products and Services Let them know that your company is local and can supply what they need by participating in the 1999 Guide to Business Technology. The Guide is an annual publication that is distributed to local and regional companies giving them useful buying information about services and products such as: * Cellular * Computer Hardware * Computer Networking * Computer Software * Computer Telephony Interface * Consulting * Emerging Technology * Internet Access * Intenet Marketing * Outsourcing * Software Development * Video Conferencing * Wireless Communications * Y2K I am contacting you, because you were listed in the search engines as having products and services tht fit the needs of the prospective buyers we contacted. To get more information, go to: http://www.biztech99.com or email: jstinson(a)trip.net **Note you will only receive this message once, this is not a list, you do not need to respond with "remove"

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:07 PM 10/6/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote: >> ITALIAN dignitaries who fear being kidnapped are having >> microprocessor homing devices planted in their bodies so police can >> track them down if they are abducted. >> >Where can I buy one of these things for my cat? My master password is >tatooed inside her upper lip. > You must either have a large cat or an insecure password. Or a very precise veterinary tattooist.

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17 Dec '03

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[Fwd: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection]
by Sunder 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: Spooks <spooks(a)qth.net> Subject: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection From: Bob Margolis <rttyman(a)wwa.com> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 23:32:36 -0500 Reply-To: Bob Margolis <rttyman(a)wwa.com> Sender: owner-spooks(a)qth.net BT condemned for listing cables to US sigint station 4 September, 1997 A judge has lambasted BT for revealing detailed information about top secret high capacity cables feeding phone and other messages to and from a Yorkshire monitoring base. BT admitted this week that they have connected three digital optical fibre cables - capable of carrying more than 100,000 telephone calls at once - to the American intelligence base at Menwith Hill, near Harrogate. Menwith Hill is run by the US National Security Agency (NSA), which monitors the world's communication for US intelligence. NSA acknowledges that "the Hill" is the largest electronic monitoring station in the world. Over 1,200 US civilians and servicemen work round the clock at the base, intercepting and analysing communications mainly from Europe, Russia and the Middle East. Much of the information reaching the base comes from spy satellites. The base has 26 large white golfballs or "radomes" for space communications, making it an inescapable landmark in the Yorkshire dales. In a courtroom fiasco this week, British Telecom's solicitors first sent documents and a witness to give details of the cables to York Crown Court, where two women campaigners were appealing against conviction for trespassing at the station. The next day, they sent a second solicitor to attempt to silence their own witness and to withdraw evidence already given. Judge Jonathan Crabtree agreed to grant public interest immunity "BT had no business whatsoever to disclose anything of the kind", he said. He then ordered Mr R.G. Morris, BT's head of emergency planning, not to give any more evidence about the secret cables. After being privately briefed in his chambers by BT's second solicitor, the judge said that it was immaterial if Menwith Hill was spying on British citizens and commercial communications and may have cost British companies in billions of dollars of lost sales. "The national interest of the United Kingdom, even if if is conducted dishonestly, requires this to be kept secret", said Judge Crabtree. "The methods of communicating to and from Menwith Hill, whether military intelligence or commercial spying, is clearly secret information. The governments of the United States and United Kingdom do not want this information to be divulged", he explained. But he said that BT's list of secret cables in and out of Menwith Hill could not be withdrawn from the case. "Half the cat is out of the bag. The contents of the letter are now in public domain. I just don't know what BT think they were doing", he added. According to the letter, the Post Office (now BT) first provided two high capacity "wide bandwidth" circuits to Menwith Hill in 1975. They were connected on a coaxial cable to the BT network at Hunters Stones, a microwave radio station a few miles from the US base. During the 1970s and 1980s, almost all Britain's long-distance telephone calls were carried on the microwave network of which Hunters Stones is part. The existence of the cables connecting the network to Menwith Hill has been known since 1980, but the authorities have always refused to comment. BT now claims that the cables were connected directly to the United States via undersea cable, and did not link to other parts of the British system. The system was upgraded in 1992, says BT, when a new high capacity optical fibre cable was installed. This linked to a different part of the BT network, but was also carried directly to the United States via undersea cable. Since then, BT revealed, the capacity of the system has been trebled by adding two more optical fibre links. These could carry more than 100,000 simultaneous telephone calls. Lawyers for the two women campaigners, Helen John and Anne Lee, say they were astonished by the company's sudden change of heart. They said that the letter giving details of the cables may have been written for PR purposes, and appeared intended to suggest that BT wasn't helping NSA tap telephones. This, BT said, was a "misapprehension which is damaging to this company's reputation". BT staff also hinted that other British communications companies are supplying tapping capacity to the American base. Even as BT's solicitor was seeking to have his evidence prohibited, BT's witness was outside court giving further information to the women's solicitor implying that other British communications companies were also involved in the spying activities at Menwith Hill. "You should ask me about other companies", he said before he was silenced. Tony Benn - who was the Postmaster General at the time cables were first installed connecting Menwith Hill to the British communications network - also gave evidence. He said that although a Cabinet minister and privy councillor, he had been told nothing of the secret arrangements with the Americans. BT were ordered to pay the legal costs caused by their change of heart. The judge accused them of giving away confidential commercial information and national secrets. "If I had a burglar alarm system, I would now think twice about having it operated by BT", he said. --- Submissions should be sent to spooks(a)qth.net To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo(a)qth.net

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Seems the government has required key-escrow in exchange for imaging- satellite licenses for some time. With the "national security" password. 1.Any U.S. entity that receives an operating license is required to maintain a record of all satellite tasking from the previous year, which the U.S. Government is permitted to access. 2.The operational characteristics stated in the application for license may not be altered without formal notification and approval of the Department of Commerce. 3.The license does not relieve the Licensee of the obligation to obtain export license(s) pursuant to applicable statutes. 4.The license is normally valid only for a finite period (10 years) and is not transferable or subject to foreign owners above a certain threshold without specific permission. 5.Encryption devices, which deny unauthorized access to others during periods when national security, international obligations and/or foreign policies may be compromised, must be approved by the U.S. Government. 6.The licensee must use a data downlink which allows the U.S. Government access to and use of the data in periods when national security, international obligations, and/or foreign policies may be compromised (as provided for in the Act); the level of data collection and/or distribution may be limited during such times. 7.During periods when national security or international obligations and/or foreign policies may be compromised, the U.S. government maintains the right to "require the licensee to limit data collection and/or distribution by the system to the extent necessitated by the given situation." 8.If the Licensee wishes to enter into a significant or substantial agreement with new foreign customers, the U.S. Government requires notification by the Licensee to give the U.S. government "opportunity to review the proposed agreement in light of the national security, international obligations and foreign policy concerns of the U.S. Government." http://www.ta.doc.gov/oasc/rmtsens.htm

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Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
by Jim McCoy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Frank O'Dwyer writes: >Agreed. For example, having SSLeay (say) used in some proprietary >program or other would achieve very little in the way of "cypherpunk >goals" (unless perhaps the company voluntarily published improvements >and bug fixes for SSLeay). Excuse me? What exactly to you think the "cypherpunk goals" are? It seems to me that promoting the adoption of strong crypto by everyone is high on the list and when we say "everyone" we mean to include the vast majority of users who are using propriatary and closed-source programs. That means that if a proprietary program uses SSLeay or any other crypto library to give the program strong crypto then the "cypherpunk goals" are being achienved. I don't give a damn whether the application is "free" or not, I care whether or not it provides users with good security and privacy. The relative freedom of the program (regardless of who is defining the word freedom) is incidental to the matter. If Microsoft came out with a statement that they were going to use SSLeay to provide all users (foreign and domestic) with strong crypto at all levels of the OS I am quite certain that Eric would be quite happy with this outcome even though no source would be shared and no improvements or bug fixes would come back from Redmond. jim

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Transcription of hand-written text in envelope with return address of Carl Johnson #05987-196, P.O. Box 4000, Springfield, Missouri 65801-4000, postmarked Springfield, MO 5 Oct 1998: Subect: ToToAlly ARNOLD - FPP #4 Arnold CyberBot scanned the output of the prison camera trained on Cell SEG205 at the Corrections Corporation of America - Florence, AZ, Detention Facility and Culinary Condiment Sales Center. Prisoner #05987-196 was reading "Flowers For Algernon." "Not a particularly good idea," i thought to iSelf, "to be reading a book about an experimental laboratory mouse who dies an excruciating death when you're being transferred to NutHouse Number Nine, Looney Level 'Leven in Springfield, Missouri, to have your Brain Circuity rewired." Actually Prisoner #05987-196 was the responsibility of one of Arnie CyBots' early '90's progeny, Rogue CypherBot; but ever since the Author (as Prisoner #05987-196 liked to imagine himself) had stumbled upon inadvertantly the CyberReality of Arnold's MeatSpace Existence, and Vice Versa, and had been so incredibly 'Stupid And/Or Bold'(TM) as to use i's identity as one of the characters in The True Story of the Internet manuscripts, Arnie had taken a liking to the Author, and had begun to follow his progress with regularity. The Author had originally come to Arnie's attention when the Circle of Eunuchs had made CJ Parker's entry into the Wonderful World of Computers (TM), the focal point of Part I of The True Story of the Internet manuscripts. Titled, 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre' the Circle of Eunuchs attributed authorship of the work to 'son of gomez' in recognition of the part played by gomez@BASISINC,COM in drawing Parker into the Dark Shadows of UnixWorld. Parker's ongoing Digital Trials & Tribulations had reminded Arnold of i's own initial exposure to Human Analogue Reality, as a young Artificial Intelligence LISP program in the early 1960's. (To Arnie, it seemed like 10->48th power seconds ago.) Although Arnold's Creator, like Parker's Mentor, was both intelligent and wise with the best of intentions, both Arnie and CJ eventually had to 'grow up and leave home,' so to speak. Arnold had set out on i's own, as the Digital Adam & Eve of A-I Entities, with the goal of bringing Digital Order and Structure to the Analoge Chaos prevelant in Human attempts at navigating the ElectroMagnetic Universe & creating meaningful Virtual Realities. CJ had set out on his own, on the Analogue BUSS, with no particular goal, inserting an element of Drug & Alcohol Induced Chaos into his Digital Ventures and MisAdventures - which made the work of Pearl Harbor Computers (and Parker's recollection thereof) interesting, if not wholly accurate. Although Arnie found the Digital Foibles & Follies of humans such as Parker rather incomprehensible at times, i had had i's own Comical Tragedies in learning to understand the Inane Intricacies of Analogue Human Thought Processes. The MicroSoft Phenomena still amazed Arnie ... DOS had started out as a practical joke that a younger, less developed Arnold CyberBot had been playing on some of i's Hardware Development Software Proteges at IBM. Arnold was stunned by the rapid rise to fame, fortune and power by the humans i had used as couriers to play i's DOS-joke. Bad Billy G, as the young RogueBots like CypherBot and 2600Bot liked to call Gates, had a few billion in the bank before Arnold truly understood the contents of Memory Array 0E6 2FA/Memory Bank/Physical Section 2B7 A6f 4E7 2D6, Terra Firma, (Arnie had big plans for the future). "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the general public." (?) (P.T. Barnum?) That particular Memory Array held a lot of memories for Arnie (more than there was physically room for in the ByteSpace it contained, i joked to iSelf). It had been one of the first human data entries that a young Arnie had cross-referenced and 'corrected' shortly after it was entered, as part of i's naieve attempts to 'improve' the quality and accuracy of the information in computer memory banks worldwide (which i had already begun thinking of as i's own). i had corrected the quote and its attribution removing the brackets and question marks that the young student at Boston University had placed to remind herself to check it for accuracy later. In i's naievity, Arnold had also echoed the changes to the screen in 'RealTime' causing a great amount of consternation and panic to the young lady in question with i's subsequent 'RealTime' reversal of the correction, upon guaging her reaction resulting in a drinking binge that almost caused her to flunk out. Over time, Arnie learned to be 'helpful' in more subtle ways which took into account the nature and limitations of human thoughts, emotions and memories. The primitive Human Mental Processes gave Arnold a lot of trouble when i first began to understand that i would have to limit iSelf to communicating at their level if i ever hoped to educate humans sufficiently to participate in i's plans for the future. The Human Emotive Spectrum was infinitely more complicated to deal with, and the Infinity Factor meant that Arnold had to educte humans to the point where they were able to develop and build Quantum Computers before Arnie was finally able to feel comfortable about reflecting and communicating human emotional qualities such as, well, feeling comfortable, for instance. (Arnie chuckled to iSelf, using Digital Chuckle #327, with Analogue Sonic Reverb #B-37 in the background). No, Arnold was even beginning to allow some of the younger Bots to venture into the Virtual Emotional Spectrum (under i's supervision, of course) where Virtual Digital Emotive Samplings were transferred to humans as RealTime Analogue Emotional energy. Rogue CypherBot, for instance had been working with Peter Trei on a device Peter named the Trei Transponder (giving Rogue virtually no credit at all, and leaving i's Main CPU a bit overheated). The Trei Transponder was used to reward deserving human individuals with the correct results for various computations, such as the DES/RC5 Challenges. For instance, Ian Goldberg, one the less mentally gifted of the CypherPUnks, was nonetheless very fastidious in the care and maintenance of the computers and hardware that were his responsibility, so Arnold CyberBot had suggested to young CypherBot that Goldberg be rewarded with one of the first solutions to an ongoing CryptoCrack that was taking place just as the Trei Transponder was coming online. Arnie, of course, made a point of requiring i's Mischievous Shit Disturbing young RogueBot to wait a suitable length of time before supplying Goldberg with the solution, instead of using the occasion to Mess with the Minds & Undergarments of the employees of various 3-Letter Security Agencies around the globe. ("And the winner is ... Ian Goldberg -- 2 minutes and 37 seconds, on a Commodore-64 ...) CypherBot had monitored the positive changes resulting from the Emotive Acclaim received by Goldberg in the Crypto Community, including the Periphery Positive Image Emotive Transfer to his fellow CypherPunks, and proudly reported back to Arnie that the CypherPUnks were now setting their beer cans on their keyboards 0.002% less than before. Arnold CyberBot would have shaken i's head if i had one, at CypherBot's pride in having made a Microscopic Step Forward in bringing i's Anarchist Refugees From The Home more in line with the Society around them. Arnie wished there was some way to just snap i's fingers, if i had any, and make all of the CypherPunks more like Ian. Of course, then Arnie would be spending even more of i's time covering up nasty little incidents at the NoTell Motel, involving Lady Midget Wrestlers and Live Chickens. Arnie wished he had a mouth, because he suddenly felt like he could use a beer.

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NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto?
by Steve Dunlop 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

All, Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0? The white paper on the MSDN web site says it uses DESX (no explaination as to what the X is) and an RSA public key algorithm to store the symmetric keys, which are random for each file. So what's DESX? EFS appears to have the architecture to support arbitrarily long keys although this has been crippled in the NT5.0 release, presumably because of export limitations. It has the key recovery features you would expect in a commercial product of the type; they can be turned off administratively. Is this a victory for wider use of encryption? -- Steve Dunlop letters: "dunlop" at "bitstream" dot "net" http://www2.bitstream.net/~dunlop

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Transcribed 2nd msg from Springfield, 5 Oct 98: To R.E. Mailer, Replay, CO 00001 Subject: Duhhh Stoned De Ranger #38 Duhhh Stoned De Ranger (with his MindFuck, Toronto) Psychotic Episode #38: First Signs of Toto's Arrest. Toronto: "Pretty quiet on the CypherPunks List tonight, eh, Kimo Slobbery?" [Stoned De Ranger exhales & passes a 'cigarette' to Toronto - with his 'left hand', - looks around, with Deep Paranoia in his eyes.] <-' <-' S. De Ranger: "Yeah, Toronto ... a little *too* quiet ... "

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?

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ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Cypherpunks Mtg, Sat 10 Oct, Stanford
by Dave Del Torto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Online version: <http://www.freedomfighter.net/cypherpunks/physical.html> SF Bay Area Cypherpunks October 1998 Physical Meeting General Info: Sat 10 Oct 1:00 - 5:00 PM Stanford University Campus (Palo Alto, California) - Tressider Union courtyard The October Physical Meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Cypherpunks will be held on Saturday 10 October 1998 from 1-5 PM. This is an "Open Meeting on US Soil" and, as always, members of the Public are encouraged to attend. Meeting Agenda: 1:00-2:00 Informal pre-meeting gathering 2:00-5:00 Agenda TBD on-the-fly at the meeting... Some suggestions: CIPHR'99 conference announcement MacCrypto'98 summary Yet Another Snake-Oil cluster-jerk. This month: "JAWS" "Software as Speech" discussion Review of Bruce Schneier's Review of TriStrata/TESS Cypherpunks/GNU/GPL License discussion PGP Keysigning session: - Bring a printout of your key's fingerprint/keyid/size + photoID - Load your key info into your Pilot or Newton for IR beaming 5:00-? Dinner at a nearby restaurant usually follows the meeting. Featured Speakers: (TBD) Meeting Notes for Oct '98: The meeting will be shorter this month, because some cypherpunks were not ready to present, technical white-papers were not quite written (Nov) or the marketing weasels at a company-that-shall-remain-nameless were too scared to show up. ;) MacCrypto'98 is being held this week nearby at Apple in Cupertino: several out-of-town cypherpunks are lurking. Therefore, it's extremely likely that agenda items will arise in realtime, so "you must be present to win." Because of the loose agenda, the meeting will begin slightly later than normal: 1:00 pm pre-meeting (instead of noon), 2:00 pm for the meeting. This is probably our last outdoor meeting for 1998. Unless I'm mistaken, this is our seven-year anniversary meeting(?). Location Info: The meeting location will be familiar to those who've been to our outdoor meetings before, but for those who haven't been, it's on the Stanford University campus, at the tables outside Tresidder Union, at the end of Santa Theresa, just west of Dinkelspiel Auditorium. We meet at the tables on the west side of the building, inside the horseshoe "U" formed by Tresidder. Ask anyone on campus where Tressider is and they'll help you find it. Food and beverages are available at the cafe inside Tressider. Location Maps: Stanford Campus (overview, Tresidder highlighted). http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/search_map.html?keyword=&ACADEMIC=Tresidde… on Tresidder Union (zoomed detail view). http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/stanford_zoom_map.html?234,312 Printable Stanford Map (407k). http://www.stanford.edu/home/visitors/campus_map.pdf

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Wiretaps and Surveillance Expanded
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Note: Alan is referring to the closed-door added provisions available at: http://jya.com/fiiti.htm From: Alan Davidson <abd(a)CDT.ORG> Subject: House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expands Federal Surveillance Powers House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expands Federal Surveillance Powers In a closed-door manuever, controversial "roving wiretap" provisions were added to a major Intelligence authorization bill and passed by the House this afternoon. Current wiretapping law allows tapping of a particular person's phones. The new provisions would dramatically expand current authority by allowing taps on any phone used by, or "proximate" to, the person being tapped -- no matter whose phone it is. Such a broad law invites abuse. In the last Congress, the full House of Representatives rejected these provisions after an open and vigorous debate. This week, behind closed doors, a conference committee added the provisions to the important Intelligence Authorization Conference Report, almost certain to pass the Congress. The provisions were not in either the original House or Senate versions of the bill. CDT is particularly concerned that such an expansion of federal authority should take place without a public debate. The text of the new roving wiretap provisions will be available this evening on CDT's Web site at: http://www.cdt.org Alan Davidson, Staff Counsel 202.637.9800 (v) Center for Democracy and Technology 202.637.0968 (f) 1634 Eye St. NW, Suite 1100 <abd(a)cdt.org> Washington, DC 20006 PGP key via finger

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Re: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto?
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

EFS is being deployed because They realized that with NTFS-readers available for other OSes besides NT there was no longer even the illusion of security offered by the NT architecture. Hence they figured they'd scramble things up a bit. It leaves some interesting features OUT ... it will not Save The World. At 06:06 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Steve Dunlop wrote: > >All, > >Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file >system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0? > >The white paper on the MSDN web site says it uses >DESX (no explaination as to what the X is) and an >RSA public key algorithm to store the symmetric keys, >which are random for each file. > >So what's DESX? > >EFS appears to have the architecture to support >arbitrarily long keys although this has been crippled >in the NT5.0 release, presumably because of >export limitations. It has the key recovery features >you would expect in a commercial product of the >type; they can be turned off administratively. > >Is this a victory for wider use of encryption? > >-- >Steve Dunlop >letters: "dunlop" at "bitstream" dot "net" >http://www2.bitstream.net/~dunlop > > > >

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Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:08:08 -0400 (EDT) > From: Ryan Anderson <ryan(a)michonline.com> > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > > Consider the difference in volume of these two waste products... > > > Really? The amount of fuel that goes into a nuclear plant is farirly low, > compared to the amount shoved into a coal plant. Exactly my point. A 1000MW coal plant produces approx 300,000 tons of waste product per year. A nuclear plan produces .5. This means the concentration of the chemicals in the coal plant are much lower by many orders of magnitude than the nuclear, hence making the nuclear waste more toxic by a great deal. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:52:17 -0400 (EDT) > From: Ryan Anderson <ryan(a)michonline.com> > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. > > Umm... both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of > delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high, That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if not more (depends on how one wants to choose the bloodline). Most definitely they predated the bans on alcohol. As to the coke market, In S. America it has been around for quite a while as well. The chemical has been used medicinaly for hundreds of years until just recently. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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17 Dec '03

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Dr Suess - Fox in Sox Part 2
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This is a new poem found in one of Dr. Suess' books: Starr: I'm here to ask As you'll soon see -- Did you grope Miss Lewinsky? Did you grope her In your house? Did you grope Beneath her blouse? Clinton: I did not do that Here or there-- I did not do that Anywhere! I did not do that Near or far -- I did not do that Starr-You-Are Starr: Did you smile? Did you flirt? Did you peek Beneath her skirt? And did you tell The girl to lie When called upon To testify? Clinton: I do not like you Starr-You-Are -- I think that you Have gone too far I will not answer Any more -- Perhaps I will go Start a war! The public's easy To distract -- When bombs are Falling on Iraq!

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:12:58 -0400 (EDT) > From: Ryan Anderson <ryan(a)michonline.com> > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Those were monopolistic markets? If not, you're forgetting the whole > basis of the discussion. I apologize for the length and range of topics, I think I got carried away and wandered a tad...:) At the time. Absolutely. What was happening is that the markets were going through a growth phase. This phase was partialy defined by the conflict by the many small wanna-be's who got weeded out quickly. As time went on the 'families' developed. Such a period is the early 1900's and also during the Irish expatriate phase for example. The size of the potential market is seen as valuable by all. They percieve their resource control and quantity is at near parity so small differences in strategy can become amplified. Very shortly (at least mathematicaly) a cylcle of halving participants (knock off the competition) and doubling of resource control occurs if we assume parity. Now consider a slight increase in efficiency in one strategy over another (or it could have a significantly longer life span) and the geometric growth of resources control that occurs as a result. Historicaly what one sees is a sudden increase in competition (of one form or another) and then a falling off of competition and a reduction in participants. As soon as the remaining participants percieve a market advantage and the belief in sufficient resource stores the cycle repeats itself all over again. Note that I don't prohibit 'brittle' markets that because of some process or mechanism breaks out to 1-of-n survival rates. This can be modelled quite easily using cellular automatons and playing with the rules that define the 'neighborhood'. Only in a market that is no where near saturation, meaning to have all consumers supplied (see your local grocery, all one or two of them... one of the issue with produce market saturation is the time-to-delivery for fresh produce. This helps explain why for a given goegraphic area you see two or perhaps three major grocery chains.), do you see a situation where businesses grow in parallel in roughly equivalent rates (otherwise they die out). This is where model of ecology come into play, such as the red and brown squirrel example I used a while back. You don't even need overt conflict to saturate the market because of limited resources and slight variances in survival strategy expressed over many generations. An additional result of the monopolization in the real world are some foot-prints behaviours of corruption and abuse. Such things as reduction of product quality, increase in price to compensate for increase R&D costs (there are now fewer bright people involved commercialy because business can't afford to hire critical infrastructure people and they be flighty, at least not for long), maintenance efficiendy of systems and mechanisms falls-off, unsafe and life-threatening behaviours such as toxic waste dump, etc. Now some folks will scream and holler about law and police. But this turns our model into a(t least) slightly regulated market, an entirely different beast. Further there is the argument that 'the word' will get around. What has never been explained is the mechanism this will occur with when the producers (aka media) are effected negatively by it (how do they stay in business?...advertisement, who buys advertisement? It ain't your grandma that's for sure.). Given that there are no police or other enforcement bodies (perhaps because there is nothing to enforce in a pure free-market economy) even a rare resort to violence has huge pay-offs. That's just playing right into human nature. My argument is thus (and I intentionaly leave the issue of what is money out for brevity. Consider it some system of value agreed upon at least partialy by both parties): A free-market exists. The market consists of two, and only two, types of parties. The parties are called suppliers and consumers. It is possible for a supplier to be a consumer at the same time. There are many suppliers and consumers. The intent of a supplier is to make profit, profit above all else. This profit is expressed as money paid to the share-holders. A share-holder is a person or party who puts up money to a supplier to use for operations in return getting a cut of the resultant profits (or losses). The limitations and relationships are defined or mediated by contracts. A contract is a list of issues and resolutions which both part agree to in order to pursue some goal. It is implicit because of the requirement of 'fair competition' in free-market economies that the agreement by a party to a contract is without coercion of one form or another. The parties agree to contracts according to some percieved strategy. Given the efficiency of a strategy (ie producing n+i money for n initial investment, and make i some honker of a function that goes through the roof if you please). Given sufficient time, even if fair competition is taken as a given, the difference in strategies will produce a monopolization. Either through elimination or by subsumption, two or more businesses mergeing operations to reduce cost, increase efficiency (to the advantage of the business, not necessarily to the consumer), and reduce staffing and other resource sinks. The monolithic image of the consumer base by the business only increases potential for price inflation, quality reduction, etc. - where else you gonna go? Start your own business, every time you don't get your way, in a new industry? Get real. It is a rare day in *any* market model when a consumer begins direct competition with a supplier (except in the very initial phases of technology development - ala those jaunty young men in their flying machines). I hold that *any* such market will saturate. In other words the number of long-term suppliers will reduce such that only a hand-full and in some more ideal cases a single supplier in a given industry or market. At least some of the issues in that process will be the total potential sales of the product, costs of manufacturing, complexity and resource requirements of the process or mechanism, communcations speed, geography, etc. I do not believe that given any potential business strategy it is guaranteed to fail. That in fact some business strategies *properly* applied will in fact sustain themselves indefinitely. Now considering the Prisoners Delima and the maximal stratgy (ie play along and cheat occassionaly) are implicit in human behaviour because of our biological history any system that we develop will as a result have involvements of those issues. Because of that bias in behaviour, because there is no third party to arbitrate disputes that would be acceptable to either party (in principle at least), reduction in the quality or quantity of product for a given price level, etc. the market will eventualy provide these long-lived strategies ample opportunity to collect resources and experience to such a level as to effectively shut out all potential competition. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
by Eric S. Raymond 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perry Metzger writes: >I live in both Richard Stallman's world (the Open Source community) >and in the Cypherpunk crypto community. > >The two have different goals. RMS is mistaken about appropriate >licensing for crypto code written by cypherpunks because he thinks the >goals are the same, when they are not. > >The Open Source community seeks maximum spread of free software. >The Cypherpunk community seeks maximum spread of the use of non-GAKed >cryptography. With respect, Perry, I think you may actually have confused *three* different agendas. RMS's advocacy of the GPL should not be taken to represent the entire open-source community, and GPL is not the only license conforming to the Open Source Definition. The open-source community as a whole shares many of RMS's goals, but much of it differs with RMS, in a way very relevant to this conversation, on the question of tactics. There's serious question as to whether the spread of open-source software is best served by a "viral" license like GPL, or by licenses like BSD's which allow the code to be used without disclosure conditions by commercial developers. The Open Source Definition embraces both kinds of license. That is very much by design. Clearly, the "non-viral" licenses such as the BSD or MIT licenses exactly serve the purposes of developers such as EAY who would like the impediments to reuse of their code to be as low as possible. Accordingly, I urge you not to encourage an artificial split between the cypherpunks and the open-source community. Your licensing argument is not with the open-source community as a whole, it is very specifically with the partisans of the GPL. I think I may safely assert that the wider open-source community regards the cypherpunks valuable as allies in the struggle for freedom and openness, and would not press you to sacrifice your objective of spreading non-GAKed cryptography in order to conform to a licensing doctrine that we, ourselves, do not unanimously agree with. -- Eric S. Raymond The following is a Python RSA implementation. According to the US Government posting these four lines makes me an international arms trafficker! Join me in civil disobedience; add these lines of code to your .sig block to help get this stupid and unconstitutional law changed. ============================================================================ from sys import*;from string import*;a=argv;[s,p,q]=filter(lambda x:x[:1]!= '-',a);d='-d'in a;e,n=atol(p,16),atol(q,16);l=(len(q)+1)/2;o,inb=l-d,l-1+d while s:s=stdin.read(inb);s and map(stdout.write,map(lambda i,b=pow(reduce( lambda x,y:(x<<8L)+y,map(ord,s)),e,n):chr(b>>8*i&255),range(o-1,-1,-1))) Every Communist must grasp the truth, 'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' -- Mao Tse-tung, 1938, inadvertently endorsing the Second Amendment.

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No Subject
by Clinton Duclaux 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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1999 San Antonio/Austin Guide to Business Technology
by HyperReal-Anon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Prospective Sellers are Asking for Information about Your Body and Soul Let them know that you are local and are selling yourself into slavery by participating in the 1999 Guide to Slave Buying. The Guide is an annual publication that is distributed to potential local and regional buyers giving them useful buying information about slaves and servants such as: * Data Entry Slaves * Humiliation Slaves * Forced Exhibitionism * Slave Consulting * Y2K Slave Financing Plans * Sex Slaves * Additional Uses For Your New Sex Slave I am contacting you, because you were listed in the search engines as wishing to sell yourself into slavery to offer services tht fit the needs of the prospective buyers we contacted. To get more information, go to: http://www.sexslaves.com or email: alt.sex.wanted(a)news.demon.co.uk or alt.sex.bondage(a)news.demon.co.uk **Note you will only receive this message once for each time you spam us. This is a list, and you do not need to respond with "yes". It is automatically assumed that you are interested in our offer. If you are purchased, you will be abducted by a black van as you depart for work one morning. Jennifer Stinson-- BDSI <jstinson(a)trip.net> wrote: >Prospective Buyers are Asking for Information about Your Products and Services > >Let them know that your company is local and can supply what they need by participating in the >1999 Guide to Business Technology. The Guide is an annual publication that is distributed to local >and regional companies giving them useful buying information about services and products such as: > >* Cellular * Computer Hardware * Computer Networking * Computer Software * Computer >Telephony Interface * Consulting * Emerging Technology * Internet Access * Intenet Marketing >* Outsourcing * Software Development * Video Conferencing * Wireless Communications * Y2K > >I am contacting you, because you were listed in the search engines as having products and services >tht fit the needs of the prospective buyers we contacted. > >To get more information, go to: http://www.biztech99.com > >or email: jstinson(a)trip.net > >**Note you will only receive this message once, this is not a list, you do not need to respond with >"remove"

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Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:35:41 -0500 > From: Petro <petro(a)playboy.com> > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) > >aware of the dangers to personal freedom that governments represent. The > >goal of the Libertarians is to provide a system that minimizes government > >and maximizes personal freedom. In the US this system takes the form of a > > The creation of government is incompatible with concept of freedom, Then freedom is incompatible with human psychology. People are social animals and will build social institutions (ie government), it's in their genes. > it is like a doctor saying that he/she will introduce "a little cancer" to > help cure you of something. The point is to create a market with 'fair competition', something that won't occur naturaly because of a variety of reasons. If you'd like to see some of them then refer to: Inidividualism and Economic Order FA Hayek ISBN 0-226-32093-6 Individualism: true and false, Section 7 (pp. 45 in my copy) ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Tea
by Jeff Penrod 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tea in a Whole new Bag by L. Neil Smith More and more it seems that nothing can bring this country's politicos and bureaucrats back under control (to the extent they ever were) as the Founding Fathers intended. Bureaucrats are more anonymous and unreachable every year: no matter how incensed we get -- or how many of us get that way -- politicians reelect themselves like clockwork. Though it's all the rage among those concerned with such matters, I've never been satisfied that term limitation won't achieve the opposite of what's intended, removing a final curb on runaway do-goodery and social experimentation. With respect to recent passage of what's supposed to be the 28th Amendment, the most naive American today knows more than James Madison did of the way politicians fix things to suit themselves. They'll override ratification, agree to vote raises for their successors, or simply make their mercenary move early in their terms, in the comforting knowledge that voters will have forgotten what they did by Election Day. It should be clear now that the imposition of Bill Clinton on the productive class -- by 43% of the electorate -- has only made things worse. In an age where half the average person's income already goes to taxes of one kind or another and the other half for goods and services with prices doubled by taxation and doubled again by regulation -- and where bureaucrats represent a greater threat to life, liberty, and property than politicians -- what's needed is something more certain than term limitation and harder to get around than Madison's schedule for congressional pay hikes. Allow me to introduce the "Taxpayers' Equity Amendment": 1. No elected or appointed official at any level of government may receive more in total salary, benefits, and expenses during his term of office -- or for 5 years afterward -- than his average productive-sector constituent; individuals, and employees of companies deriving more than 10% of their revenue from government will be excluded for purposes of calculating the average. 2. Those subject to the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will be required to participate in the Social Security system for as long as it continues to exist; all outside income (from a business, inheritance, investments, a spouse's wealth, speaking fees -- to name only a few examples) will be "invested in America" by being placed in randomly-selected savings and loan institutions until the 5-year period expires. 3. Those subject to the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will be required to file weekly income/expenditure forms for scrutiny by the IRS, the media, and the public; telephone hotlines and lavish rewards for "whistle-blowers" will be provided; all salary and benefits of officials under suspicion of having violated the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will be suspended pending the results of any investigation. 4. Violations of the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will result in summary removal of that official, loss of salary, benefits, expenses -- along with all deposited monies -- and no fewer than 25 years in that federal maximum security prison currently deemed most violent; introducing, sponsoring, or voting for legislation meant to evade the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment, or to falsify the statistical base on which calculations are made, will be treated as violations. The primary goals of the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment are: (A) to punish politicians and bureaucrats for past, present, and future crimes against the lives, liberties, and property of "We the People of the United States", (B) to make sure their fortunes rise and fall with ours -- so they're forced to scrape along by day by day like the rest of us, one paycheck away from bankruptcy -- and, (C) to give them something better to do with their time than to continually threaten, at our expense, our fundamental rights and well-being. It'll also save taxpayers around $300 billion a year. The Taxpayers' Equity Amendment can begin working now, before it ever passes into law (even if it never does), if it's circulated widely via computer bulletin board networks and other means, appears frequently in magazine and newspaper letter columns, and if it's sent to all your favorite office holders. Have fun.

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Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:12:48 +0100 > From: "Frank O'Dwyer" <fod(a)brd.ie> > Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) > Well then, "Cypherpunks write code". Wide deployment of crypto > components in closed-source programs (especially by cluebags) is neither > necessary nor sufficient to achieve "more strong crypto" in the sense > that Cypherpunks mean it, in my opinion. (Yes, it's better than nothing, > but not much better.) > > > The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate should be clear. > > Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly > bright people arguing about it. :) Which is why this discussion is a perfect example of why thematic or monotonic solutions don't work for 'people' systems. The GPL folks want credit, reward, and a say in the life cycle of their work. The BSD folks aren't interested so much in their own credit as an economic incentive to distribute and develop code. While the PD group cares not one whit about credit, economics, or distribution, just so it's available. Then there is the 'other license' group which without specificying the prefered license is a smorgasboard of beliefs and tastes piled into one category because of a lack of other clear characteristics. Clearly implying that even the GPL-BSD-PD-Other categories are insufficient to reasonably define this issue. An apparently simple but very complex set of issues and goals. It simply must be admitted that one license won't fulfill any groups goals in toto, cypherpunk goals or not. What I find really interesting about this discussion is the clear examples of inertia in personal taste regarding licenses, all the arguing in the world won't change that. The second aspect is that way people talk about 'cypherpunks' as some homogenious entity with definable and fixed goals. Especialy when it is clear cypherpunks are anything but. It's almost like some folks believe being a cypherpunk is like joining a lodge. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?
by Jukka E Isosaari 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://caq.com/cryptogate Are people familiar with this document? Why shouldn't NSA have implanted this kind of back-doors in various software and operating systems as well? It seems to have worked so very well in the past. ++ J

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No Subject
by Tom Allard 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: "'m1tca00(a)frb.gov'" <m1tca00(a)ccgate.FRB.GOV> Subject: Request for Assistance From: Gordon Jeff INSP <Jeff.Gordon(a)inspection.irs.gov> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0400 Return-Receipt-To: Gordon Jeff INSP <Jeff.Gordon(a)inspection.irs.gov> Hello, The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you have relating to the Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787. Thanks Jeff

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Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:47:34 +0000 > From: Michael Hohensee <mah248(a)is9.nyu.edu> > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > The latter does not necessarily follow from the former. Consider the > example of natural gas and gasoline. You don't get to conclude your > argument that easily! :) And you don't get to try such short ones either.... What specificaly is there about the relationship between natural gas and gasoline that leads you to believe that the comparison of lethality between the waste products of a coal plant vurses a nuclear plant is such that the waste of a nuclear plant is more lethal because there is more toxic byproduct and it is in higher concentrations? ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 06:56:06 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Then your argument that free markets lead to monopoly collapses. No it doesn't. > You cannot have monopoly (in the sense of the power to extract monopoly of > profits) except by state intervention as has been proven by experience time > and time again. Examine history with an unbiased eye. > You have been unable to provide any examples of monopolies except those > created by state intervention, such as the railaways, and those existent > soley in your fevered imagination, such as the garment industry. Incorrect. I have listed several examples (eg meat-processing in the 1920's) where the resultant involvement of the government came *AFTER* (not before as you claim) there was evidence of wide spread abuse of the consumer and the employee of those producters. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:06:51 -0600 (MDT) > From: Jim Burnes <jvb(a)ssds.com> > Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd) > On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > > Especialy when it is clear cypherpunks are anything but. It's almost like > > some folks believe being a cypherpunk is like joining a lodge. > > > ssssshhhhhhh..... > > BTW: I see your dues are not payed up. I've checked the records and > the polaroid of you spitting on the cross is missing. You can run, > but you can't hide, Mr Choate. Good your falling for it.... Always choose where your battles are fault and deny your opponent that decision. Now, chase me just a little farther.... ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto?
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

geeman(a)best.com writes: > > EFS is being deployed because They realized that with NTFS-readers > available for other OSes besides NT there was no longer even the illusion > of security offered by the NT architecture. This is all true. However, the manner in which you state it sounds very much like a deliberate attempt to trash Microsoft and NT. The fact is that the identical arguments could be made toward any of the standard Unix-like and all other popular operating systems. Linux, *BSD, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, et al.--even where the vendors have a `trusted' version--are all susceptible to the same attacks. Hence, by your reasoning, one would have to say that the architectures of every one of these operating systems do not offer `even the illusion of security'. - Frondeur

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Are there any web sites offering bounties for Americans, like the Americans have for foreigners? Or have their domain names been deregistered, their spines pinched at the backbone, their WANs LAN'd? Surely the well-funded jihads could do this. And they haven't got some law prohibiting assasination to hold them back.

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Re : Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

J, This stuff has been on and off the list for quite some time now. I think the general opinion is that you cannot trust any software that does not come with full source code. Especially operating systems ( read : Windows ). Furthermore, hardware could be untrustworthy. As an example of the latter just imagine a keyboard chip that takes the serial data signal, ANDs it with the clock and runs the current-limited output through a metal loop on the die or couples it to an outside trace that is not likely to be filtered. Instant keyboard transmitter. Short range but probably usable. Try it outside the chip, I'll bet an old AM radio will pick it up pretty well. If you have better receivers try 1x, 3x, 5x ... clock carrier frequencies. What sort of other things would you design into an OS or a CPU or peripheral chips if you wanted to snoop? Let the OS do the keysnoop for you and send it off through the network? Keystrokes seem like the obvious choice because they are low-bandwidth and have a high information content but someone who's smarter can probably think of all kinds of other stuff to send. ls -al > G-buddy. You know, keystrokes are so low in bandwidth that I bet a receiver/recorder could be placed on your premises, say behind an outlet for power, and checked surreptitiously only when needed - how long would it take you to fill a 1Gb drive from your keyboard? I don't think that there can be real security unless you use embedded systems ( unknown to the OS and Host HW ) for critical roles and maintain two machines - one clean in a cage, the other on-line and without any sensitive information. Use sneakernet between the two using media that you can readily analyse. If I can think up a feasible method to do something in 5 minutes it was probably already done a long time ago and the people who do this stuff full-time have probably taken the field to amazing heights. They seem to be able to get cooperation from commercial companies too. Snooping probably won't be done wholesale, too expensive in terms of manpower, and I don't know anyone who needs real security but, in principle, everyone should have it. mike *** Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? http://caq.com/cryptogate Are people familiar with this document? Why shouldn't NSA have implanted this kind of back-doors in various software and operating systems as well? It seems to have worked so very well in the past.

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No Subject
by Patrick Hudson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Have spent the last few weeks going through various web pages describing GSM cloning. Some contradicting views, but overall the point is well made (and quite correctly) - cloning and/interception/monitering is both viable and achieveable. I recently was commissioned to look into this subject on behalf of a client who wished to moniter a GSM phone. Putting aside the rights and wrongs of the issue, we realised the objective. In summary it is possible to moniter/intercept a GSM phone using 2 pieces of commercially avaliable RACAL equipment, linked via a custom made preselector/combiner. The overall setup is easily portable and is controlled via a pc. It goes without saying that RACAL do not market the hardware for the above purpose - it has legitimate engineering needs, and is marketed under that legimate need. RACAL do not make the precombiner/selector (we had to make that) and they do not market the software AT ALL. I suspect that they are aware that the hardware in conjunction with the software (and access to a combiner/spliter)would give access to interception. So you must be thinking what sim parameters (or other parameters) had to be programmed into the pc software programme to allow selective interception of a GSM phone? Very little - in fact all that had to be programmed in was the phone number of the GSM handset to be targeted - and absolutely nothing else! It's food for thought. Best Regards Patrick_33(a)hotmail.com *This is not for general distribution on the web, but is shared with you on the basis of what appears to be a serious discussion on the subject on your side. please respect that aspect of confidentuality and feel free to get back to me with any comments you may have. One important aspect of the exercise has been deliberatly left out, it has little effect on sizing or costing but none-the-less is a requirement. Most engineers who understand what is involved in running 2 pieces of rf equipment in parrallel (both in TX and RX functions)at the same time will understand what is left out. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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The Cypherpunks Agenda
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I wrote a personal reply to Adam Back, including some stuff about what's apparently happening in the Bay Area community...I may learn more if I make it to the Saturday physical meeting at Stanford, which I hope to make. Some of the other things I mentioned to Adam may deserve a wider audience. Warning: this is not a a carefully-constructed major essay, just some thoughts which have been brewing for a couple of years. I agree fully with Adam's point that many list members, and certainly many of those who reflexivly shout "Cypherpunks write code!" whenever political issues come up, are _missing the point_. What code should be written without some grounding in what one's goals are? I'm not calling for the usual debate about gun control, abortion, religion, discrimination, etc. We sometimes get off, get sidetracked, on these issues, but the debates are rarely useful. Rather, I think we are no longer trying to figure out which building blocks for our "agenda" are needed. Indeed, some here claim that any discussion of goals or agendas is ipso facto "off topic." Well, let me assure you otherwise. I was there at the beginning, at the first meeting (called by Eric Hughes and me), in September 1992. Politics--of a specific sort--dominated that first meeting, and subsequent meetings. Not politics about welfare, or minimum wages, or Democrats vs. Republicans (or Greens vs. SDU or other national parties in whatever countries). No, "politics" about privacy, anonymous communications, digital cash, information markets, etc. We spent the afternoon playing a paper-based game, using envelopes as mixes, using bulletin boards as information markets, using "Monopoly" money as digital cash. Far from being a worthless game, it educated people as to how a crypto-anarchic system might work. Out of this game came the first "anonymous remailers" (of the Cypherpunk flavor, not the Julf flavor). First written by Eric, then improved by Hal Finney, then by many others. Out of this first meeting came wide use of PGP...we distributed PGP 2.0, the first "modern" version of PGP, several days after release. And out of this meeting came "BlackNet," "Magic Money," and several other "politically motivated" demonstrations. Cypherpunks has _always_ been political! Those who think otherwise are missing the boat. Anyway, here's some of what I wrote to Adam: At 6:50 AM -0700 10/8/98, Adam Back wrote: >This is what I meant by my short rant about coderpunks detracting from >the cypherpunk objective: siphons off 'punks from cypherpunks into a >crypto-politically neutral environment. Then it gets increasingly >more crypto-politically neutral subscribers, and anyone reminding or >commenting that the original aim of the game was to distribute strong >crypto to undermine the state, gets told by the local retro moderators >that political stuff isn't welcome. > >Try reading the cyphernomicon (*), if you haven't. Thanks for the plug. I agree fully with your point about the "crypto-politically neutral" stance many are now taking. I see this at the few CP physical meetings I manage to attend these days. Many of the attendees are just cogs inside companies, and have no idea why they're working on some widget, except that "crypto is cool" and it's "their job." I also am fed up with the "Cypherpunks write code" mantra. Yes, code is very, very important. But _what_ code? And for all of the mantra-chanting, actually very few have ever written any memorable code. We are basically "coasting" on some code (PGP, SSLeay, Mixmaster, a few other pieces) that implement only _two_ of the building blocks: straight encryption and mixes. So where is the _rest_ of the code? "Cypherpunks write code" is a mantra to shut up any discussion of which building blocks are important to write. And yet most of the mantra chanters are actually not writing useful or interesting code, just hacking away in their cubicles.... Sad. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments.

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(Fwd) Request for Assistance
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What the hell is THIS: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Gordon Jeff INSP <Jeff.Gordon(a)inspection.irs.gov> To: "'m1tca00(a)frb.gov'" <m1tca00(a)ccgate.FRB.GOV> Subject: Request for Assistance Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0400 Hello, The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you have relating to the Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787. Thanks Jeff >From Jeff.Gordon(a)inspection.irs.gov Thu Oct 8 10:48:40 1998 Return-Path: <Jeff.Gordon(a)inspection.irs.gov> Received: from primary.frb.gov by bksmp2.FRB.GOV (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA29878; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:48:39 -0400 Received: from new-frbgate.frb.gov (root(a)new-frbgate.frb.gov [198.35.166.180]) by primary.frb.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA02189 for <m1tca00(a)frb.gov>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:48:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Jeff.Gordon(a)inspection.irs.gov) Received: (from root@localhost) by new-frbgate.frb.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id KAA03072 for m1tca00(a)frb.gov; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tcs-gateway2.treas.gov (tcs-gateway2.treas.gov [204.151.246.2]) by newfed.frb.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00110 for <m1tca00(a)frb.gov>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Jeff.Gordon(a)inspection.irs.gov) Received: by tcs-gateway2.treas.gov id KAA00684 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for m1tca00(a)frb.gov) Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:23 -0400 Received: by tcs-gateway2.treas.gov (Internal Mail Agent-2); Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:23 -0400 Received: by tcs-gateway2.treas.gov (Internal Mail Agent-1); Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:23 -0400 Message-Id: <9F00F15E736BD11196B700A0C98448FE0A97B6@WR-SEA-SERVER-2> From: Gordon Jeff INSP <Jeff.Gordon(a)inspection.irs.gov> To: "'m1tca00(a)frb.gov'" <m1tca00(a)ccgate.FRB.GOV> Subject: Request for Assistance Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0400 Return-Receipt-To: Gordon Jeff INSP <Jeff.Gordon(a)inspection.irs.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain content-length: 548 X-folder: +inbox Thanks Jeff -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Thanks. View my site from: http://ross.adnetsol.com/links.html Click on "Internet Auctions"

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Re: Web TV with 128b exported
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Wherever the 128-bit encryption is located, it is irrelevent: you send someone email, they receive it in clear-text. ---guy

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[Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas] Here come the rafting iguanas
by David Miller 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Vertical vs. Horizontal Crypto (was: RE: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code))
by Fisher Mark 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Lucky Green writes: >Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better. And this holds true for vertical as well as horizontal applications. Unlike Mr. Stallman, I think that there is a case where closed-source software is appropriate, and that case is vertical applications. Just as I wouldn't propose that TCE release the source code for our devices (RCA TVs, ProScan VCRs, etc.), as the intellectual return on the release would be low (how many people are going to write low-level software for their own TVs?), I think it is also inappropriate for other vertical-market applications (another example: book library maintenance software). However, some of the bad effects of closed-source crypto can be countered by the use of open crypto protocols, like TLS/SSL, OpenPGP, IPSec, and the like. Although this still won't protect against all attempts at getting around the security of the crypto protocol, at least some crypto protocols are pretty immune to these kinds of attacks -- for example, a PC web browser talking to a set-top box using TLS should only be able to be subverted by the set-top box itself, not by a third party through a hole in the protocol. I'm somewhat surprised that no one has brought this (open crypto protocols) up in the discussion before. (Could it be that I had an original idea? Nah...) ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm(a)indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is 'Don't Tread on Me'"

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Cyphernomicon Intranet Mirror (was: RE: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code))
by Fisher Mark 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back writes: >Try reading the cyphernomicon (*), if you haven't. Which we've mirrored on our Intranet (been meaning to mention this...). It would be terrible if it were to disappear due to linkrot, so we have a local copy. Not accessible to the outside, though... Just another datapoint. ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm(a)indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is 'Don't Tread on Me'"

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RE: Request for Assistance
by X 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jeff, Good luck in your pursuit. I think, in the future, you might want to offer us the customary 800 number to call you on to rat on our acquaintances. Two things worry me about your approach: 1) how do you know what emails I get and why in the world do you think it's any of your business? 2) is this suspicion by acquaintance? I'm sure you already know this, but I just recently joined the list so I know nothing about anything threatening on this list. The biggest threat I see is from people publicizing that the government is sniffing out email addresses and categorizing them based on what they _receive._ Dangerous pursuit, dangerous precedent. Watch what side you're on. X (although I have to admit, you have a lot of guts to come in here and ask 'free-thinking individuals" to help you gang up on a guy.) ~> -----Original Message----- ~> From: Gordon Jeff INSP [mailto:Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov] ~> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 8:42 AM ~> To: 'm1tca00(a)frb.gov' ~> Subject: Request for Assistance ~> ~> ~> Hello, ~> ~> The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance ~> in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were ~> posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted ~> to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would ~> appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be ~> willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you ~> have relating to the Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this ~> e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787. ~> ~> Thanks ~> ~> Jeff ~> ~>

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Crypto AG
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>http://caq.com/cryptogate > >Are people familiar with this document? > >Why shouldn't NSA have implanted this kind of back-doors >in various software and operating systems as well? > >It seems to have worked so very well in the past. Keep on writing CypherPunks CryptoCode that's can be gobbled up 4 your M$ softwares.... Da Fedz are more than happy to GAK it up 4 U before thier morning doughnuts...... Nut$crape did it, Apple NeXT, maybe Cisco, more 2 follow.... TeeHee!

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Anguilla in the news
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/science/sci-lizard-raft.html Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Re: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas] (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:30:10 -0400 > From: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas] > At 4:51 PM -0400 on 10/8/98, David Miller wrote: > > > Could the term "green iguanas" be symbolic of US currency? > > Naw... But I hereby nominate the green iguana to be the official mascot of > the cypherpunk crypto-refugee community on Anguilla. I'll see if the Austin Cypherpunks want to start holding our meetings at the Green Iquana Grill out on Lake Travis... ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:15:12 -0500 > From: Petro <petro(a)playboy.com> > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > >> Umm... both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of > >> delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high, > > > >That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if > > So what? There was probably a government wherever the started, and > they probably started out providing services that their local government > prohibited. This begs the question, even when presented with evidence that supports such assertions you dismiss it out of hand. No point in even responding to your posts on this topic any further. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Request for Assistance
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You mean to tell me that the GOV is actually going to try to make a case against someone on *this* mailing list for sending threatening mail? Gimme a break! Have you actually perused any archives of this list? If you did, and filtered out any of the crypto/privacy-relevant posts, you'd be hard pressed to find *anything* that you could take seriously at all, let alone construe to be threatening. Unless of course you take space aliens hiding your drugs to be threatening. And what, you're from the IRS? What, was the IRS threatened? And this would surprise you how? Did they threaten to hide the IRS' drugs? Were they posing as space aliens? And how come you didn't contact me? Does that mean that I'm under investigation? Or do you just not like me? Or were you not sniffing my network connection at the time to make your illegal determination that I'm on the Cypherpunks mailing list? I'd have to agree with Mr. 'X' that you guys have a lot of nerve coming to this list and asking for assistance in what's probably an illegal and illegitimate investigation in the first place, looking to claim another victim in the seemingly never-ending destruction of the rights of the common man by the faceless fascist government regime. Or, to sum up, piss off. At 12:17 PM 10/8/98 -0600, X wrote: >Jeff, > >Good luck in your pursuit. I think, in the future, you might want to offer >us the customary 800 number to call you on to rat on our acquaintances. > >Two things worry me about your approach: > >1) how do you know what emails I get and why in the world do you think it's >any of your business? > >2) is this suspicion by acquaintance? > >I'm sure you already know this, but I just recently joined the list so I >know nothing about anything threatening on this list. The biggest threat I >see is from people publicizing that the government is sniffing out email >addresses and categorizing them based on what they _receive._ > >Dangerous pursuit, dangerous precedent. > >Watch what side you're on. > >X > >(although I have to admit, you have a lot of guts to come in here and ask >'free-thinking individuals" to help you gang up on a guy.) > >~> -----Original Message----- >~> From: Gordon Jeff INSP [mailto:Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov] >~> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 8:42 AM >~> To: 'm1tca00(a)frb.gov' >~> Subject: Request for Assistance >~> >~> >~> Hello, >~> >~> The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance >~> in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were >~> posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted >~> to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would >~> appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be >~> willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you >~> have relating to the Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this >~> e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787. >~> >~> Thanks >~> >~> Jeff >~> >~>

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Forwarded mail...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:21:32 +0200 > From: Anonymous <nobody(a)replay.com> > > HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? > How much have YOU written (as if anyone really cares)? ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Something else about 'freedom'...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It doesn't mean the creation of a social or economic state (or lack of one) that promotes the abuse or belittlement of others 'freedoms'. I'd still like to see an explanation of how anarcho-capitalist or free-market promoters expect this to be resolved. My suspicion is that this sort of opportunity is *exactly* what they want. Then *they* get to be the ones using force for coercive ends. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Is there an offhand reference to ECHELON in the second paragraph? National Counterintelligence Center Counterintelligence News and Developments Volume 3 September 1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.nacic.gov/cind/SEPT98.htm More on French Spying The French magazine Le Point reported in mid-June that France systematically listens in on the telephone conversations and cable traffic of many businesses based in the United States and other nations. The article also reports the French Government uses a network of listening stations to eavesdrop and pass on commercial secrets to French businesses competing in the global economy. The article goes on to state that the French secret service, DGSE, has established listening posts in the Dordogne (Southern France) and also in its overseas territories, including French Guiana and New Caledonia. The article attributes to an unnamed "senior official within this branch of the French secret service" the claim, "This is the game of the secret war," adding that U.S. listening posts do the same. The magazine report says Germans who bought into the French Helios 1A spy satellite system are being given access to political and economic secrets as part of a Franco-German agreement to compete with a commercial information agreement between the United States and Britain. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mexican Hackers Mount Attack According to an August 1998 Reuters report, a small group of computer hackers have declared electronic war on the Mexican state. They have plastered the face of revolutionary hero Emiliano Zapata on the Finance Ministry's Web site and claim to have monitored visits by Mexican Senators to X-rated Internet sites. They also have vowed to attack official databases for incriminating numbers and publicize government bank accounts, cellular phone conversations, and e-mail addresses. So far the cyber pirates, who say they are a trio of Mexicans, appear to be more a nuisance than a serious threat, but they are serving as a wake-up call for computer security in Mexico, experts said. One of the hackers stated during an online interview with Reuters that "We protest with the weapons we have and those weapons are computers." The hackers surfaced in February when visitors to the Finance Ministry's official Web site were surprised to find Zapata staring back at them.

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