December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Faked mail from canada? (was : Clarification / Re: UPSs
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Spectre wrote: > In any case, I don't see you signing your messages either. Yes I do... __________________________________ | | | Watch For CypherPunks | | | | Next Ten Posts | | | | | ---------------------------------- || || || || || || ||

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Re: Micro$not Ba$hing
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Eric Tune wrote: > Out of all the things I've heard said about Bill Gates, about > Microsoft, (both as the Evil Empire and as a God-send) this makes > about the most sense. Truthmonger has it right. At the risk of having list members speculating that this anonymous post is being sent by Toto/TruthMonger in order to gloat his dropping Pearls of Wisdom upon those with weak connections to the ClueServer, I would like to compliment Eric Tune on his recognition of my...Uhhhh, I mean *TruthMonger*'s sense of Reality. > The ONLY significant in-roads that anyone has made with a Unix > environment is Linux and BSD, and all the wishing in the world is not > going to make it more palatable to "John Q. Public". Unfortunately, > Unix is a lot harder to learn for someone who started out in DOS or > Mac software, and it's not near as user friendly. What could be the > incentive to NOT take Win95/NT/MacOS/OS2, which all have wide software > bases, as opposed to the closed world of Unix? John Q. Public doesn't > want all this trouble, he just wants his kids to be able to research > their history reports on the web, and for himself, to download a > little late night skin pics when the wife is late from bingo. He's in > control of how the computer game is played these days, even if he > doesn't understand it. I *love* UNIX/Linux, but I have no illusions that they comprise a viable option for John and Jane Q., unless they are provided at a reasonable price, with GUI's that are usable by people who desire to be able to use a computer without becoming a dweeb/guru/expert. > Microsoft shouldn't be blamed because they were smarter than the rest > of the industry, and when they couldn't be smarter, well, buying the > other company works too. Every one of you would do it the same way if > you were Bill Gates running the largest software empire in the world, > whether you would like to admit it or not. This is exactly what the Anti-Micro$not Coalition is attempting. Instead of making their software available to M.E. Tarzan and U. Jane at a competitive price, they are attempting to prevent someone who sought and got (Hey! I'm a poet...) their business from offering them even more affordable software extensions to their basic operating system. If providing the end-user with the tools to use their modem and the InterNet is an anit-trust violation, then shouldn't the same concept apply to OS vendors who provide tools for their customers to use their printers, etc? The much maligned 'Sheeple' desire only to have an OS that provides them with the tools to use the products that they purchase from computer vendors. The fact that Macintosh suffered in the marketplace from offering a complete package for more money, while the PC vendors offered a more affordable package which required additional purchases of software to accomplish the same ends, is not a reflection on the stupidity of J&J Q. Public. It is a reflection on the ignorance/unwillingness of Apple to properly advertise the discrepancies in entry-level costs versus end-result costs. Tire companies are taking advantage of the shennanigans of their competition by pointing out that their prices include such 'additional items' such as valve stems, balancing, air, etc. Apple and Sun were not constrained by Micro$not from doing the same thing. Many of the UNIX/SCO systems that I sold to my customers were the result of my explaining cost-benefit ratios which I had to analyze for myself, with no help from those actually producing/selling the product. As a former vendor who sold operating systems which were in comptetion with DOS/Windows, despite the fact that their manufacturers were not actively seeking my business, I feel no compunction in calling them to task for attempting to suppress their competition by calling upon the government to make them quit giving the public what they desire. Sincerely, ...uuuhh...I can't remember what persona I am posting under...

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Important Information!
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If you have received several copies of all of my pastes to the CypherPukes list tonight, rest assured that it is a direct result of my being a drunken asshole. I have heard a rumor that the CypherPukes are taking up a collection to get me an account on AOL. Can there be any greater disgrace? To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: Micro$not Ba$hing From: nobody(a)REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 07:19:30 +0100 (MET) Organization: Replay Associates, L.L.P. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Eric Tune wrote: > Out of all the things I've heard said about Bill Gates, about > Microsoft, (both as the Evil Empire and as a God-send) this makes > about the most sense. Truthmonger has it right. At the risk of having list members speculating that this anonymous post is being sent by Toto/TruthMonger in order to gloat his dropping Pearls of Wisdom upon those with weak connections to the ClueServer, I would like to compliment Eric Tune on his recognition of my...Uhhhh, I mean *TruthMonger*'s sense of Reality. > The ONLY significant in-roads that anyone has made with a Unix > environment is Linux and BSD, and all the wishing in the world is not > going to make it more palatable to "John Q. Public". Unfortunately, > Unix is a lot harder to learn for someone who started out in DOS or > Mac software, and it's not near as user friendly. What could be the > incentive to NOT take Win95/NT/MacOS/OS2, which all have wide software > bases, as opposed to the closed world of Unix? John Q. Public doesn't > want all this trouble, he just wants his kids to be able to research > their history reports on the web, and for himself, to download a > little late night skin pics when the wife is late from bingo. He's in > control of how the computer game is played these days, even if he > doesn't understand it. I *love* UNIX/Linux, but I have no illusions that they comprise a viable option for John and Jane Q., unless they are provided at a reasonable price, with GUI's that are usable by people who desire to be able to use a computer without becoming a dweeb/guru/expert. > Microsoft shouldn't be blamed because they were smarter than the rest > of the industry, and when they couldn't be smarter, well, buying the > other company works too. Every one of you would do it the same way if > you were Bill Gates running the largest software empire in the world, > whether you would like to admit it or not. This is exactly what the Anti-Micro$not Coalition is attempting. Instead of making their software available to M.E. Tarzan and U. Jane at a competitive price, they are attempting to prevent someone who sought and got (Hey! I'm a poet...) their business from offering them even more affordable software extensions to their basic operating system. If providing the end-user with the tools to use their modem and the InterNet is an anit-trust violation, then shouldn't the same concept apply to OS vendors who provide tools for their customers to use their printers, etc? The much maligned 'Sheeple' desire only to have an OS that provides them with the tools to use the products that they purchase from computer vendors. The fact that Macintosh suffered in the marketplace from offering a complete package for more money, while the PC vendors offered a more affordable package which required additional purchases of software to accomplish the same ends, is not a reflection on the stupidity of J&J Q. Public. It is a reflection on the ignorance/unwillingness of Apple to properly advertise the discrepancies in entry-level costs versus end-result costs. Tire companies are taking advantage of the shennanigans of their competition by pointing out that their prices include such 'additional items' such as valve stems, balancing, air, etc. Apple and Sun were not constrained by Micro$not from doing the same thing. Many of the UNIX/SCO systems that I sold to my customers were the result of my explaining cost-benefit ratios which I had to analyze for myself, with no help from those actually producing/selling the product. As a former vendor who sold operating systems which were in comptetion with DOS/Windows, despite the fact that their manufacturers were not actively seeking my business, I feel no compunction in calling them to task for attempting to suppress their competition by calling upon the government to make them quit giving the public what they desire. Sincerely, ...uuuhh...I can't remember what persona I am posting under...

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Re: Fucking Sheeple / Re: Does Spamming Really Exist? Um, yes.
by Integration 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> You are more creative and astute than I am in even my most egotistical > and self-congratulatory states of being. > Please cease and deceasist! > > ROTFLMAOMonger > > Integration wrote: > > December 8, 1997: Today at work, I got an email from a company selling You are too kind! I'm just giving what is wanted... some candy and some medicine. BTW, no need for a cease and desist. I'm sure such an outpouring is fortunately infrequent. *

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Re:
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 3/21/98 2:42 AM, Anonymous (anon(a)anon.efga.org) passed this wisdom: >Life itself is a double-edged sword. To compete with the shotgun >spammers, those who wish to target an audience which is likely to >have a specific interest in their product or cause have need of a >database which will help them to categorize the interests of those >who traverse the <WWW.> In doing so, they run the risk of being >lumped in with those who use the same technology to monitor the >same users in order to work against their self-interest. Exactly, to lump all mass emailers into one homogenous category is all wrong. I subscribe to a list people running Mac Performa series PowerPCs (almost all PPC 603/e)/v). We recently had someone who had apparently subscribed to the list and lurked and built up a mailing list of posters to the list to whom he later sent a solicitation ... it was quite appropriate and as targetted as you can get, active participants in a highly specific group ... you shopuld have heard the weeping an gnashing of teeth ... the bandwidth comsumed by compliants was a thousand fold greater than the solicitation itself! SPAM is the boogeyman of the hour. Yes there are bad spammers out there and a modest knowledge of your mail client will handle 95% of them straight to File 13, but I really do want to receive many of the solicitations I get, I actually do buy things ... Just my .02 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNRPt0T7r4fUXwraZAQGLzwf+MHxH65MoIWtch+sOqgOkEkJX6CKQWHGK QaF411/xf3Yma2zQpV0Vu9UqcHaqBXf+HFxgEmh8hDfneTQHOa81IX9zZPBQ2EXv qeo+ANIDzJzUNSQ+V1SKkgWzDF74VVPXTfBElYYvoox+9LMwHyzTcSiUh4JaN9EN 5cpkyvq+rgzv0QuIHKileSDZRW3BfXK8jA/yUCZ/WkV3eWG4RNavR+Cv7PCsGq4j f9YCrd6cU+4cs4g2gpA8Oc9HK5sKquNrChQY1lZc3hWeFCyKO1uc/8eIAX3MxVAV cRtvJ/SLMqcd+FNIiEstCNCs7SsGB37jbO9RdmY4ZNLxZgtk/BVojQ== =87S8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sing the best." -- Henry David Thoreau

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And they all work for the government...
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* The London Daily Telegraph reported in January on the thriving addiction clinics of Dr. Robert Lefever, who specializes in helping people who are obsessed with helping other people. Among the 500 patients a year he sees in London and Kent are a number of women who compulsively marry alcoholics so they can cure them. Another recent patient was hospitalized for exhaustion after caretaking an overweight woman, including obsessively rolling her in her wheelchair to many places she did not want to go. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate. To receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to notw-request(a)nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe. To read these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months, go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html (That site contains no graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio. Just text. Deal with it.)

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ClueServer Permanently Down...
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* Latest prices charged by parents to sell their kids (Covington, La., January, $7,400; Orlando, Fla., January, $1,000); latest game of automobile chicken that ended in a tie (Michigan Center, Mich., January, three hospitalized, one in critical condition); latest attempted robbery in which the unarmed perp simulates a gun with his thumb and forefinger but doesn't have his hand in his pocket at the time (La Ronge, Saskatchewan, December, not surprisingly, coming away with no money). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate. To receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to notw-request(a)nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe. To read these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months, go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html (That site contains no graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio. Just text. Deal with it.)

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Dimitri's Tentacles...
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* In September, Mr. Anoki P. Sultan filed a lawsuit in Washington, D.C., against Roman Catholic Archbishop James Hickey, claiming that the Church was responsible for the devil's taking over his body in 1983. Sultan said that would account for his being out of work so much, dropping out of college, seeking mental-health treatment, smoking cigarettes, speaking in tongues, and engaging in homosexual acts. He sought either $100 million or an exorcism. (The lawsuit was dismissed.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate. To receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to notw-request(a)nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe. To read these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months, go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html (That site contains no graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio. Just text. Deal with it.)

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Re: My Most Abject Apologies
by Paul H. Merrill 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

StanSquncr wrote: > > In a message dated 98-03-21 02:51:23 EST, you write: > > << OTOH I hear , liberally intermingled, >> WHat I mean is that 2/3 of the posts say they are screwing us out of our rights and 2/3 talk about proof and evidence. Yeah that means that some talk about both. > > Like what do you mean by "liberally intermingled"? > > << that the government blows off our > rights (and more importantly, what is Right) ... >> > > Starting with the Constitution/Bill of Rights (Article 6 part III and > Amendment 14, in particular). > > << ... and themes like proof and > evidence. >> > > It's the right-wing that's doing that (and, see above). > > > << First, the Powers That Be feel free to invent the "evidence" that they > need. >> > > I'm sure it's happened (like anytime the police want to arrest a black person, > for instance). > Or anyone else they decide to do it to. > > << Second, I would not believe someone's own hard drive to give an accurate > depiction of EMail activity. Deleting anything incriminating is easy > enough, so it not being there shows (much less Proves) nothing. And it > is relatively simple to alter stored EMail, so that does no more good. >> > > Right. So delete your incriminating evidence, and save anything you send to a > list (which they could get a copy of anyway.) > The thing is that *I* can get the list stuff myself if it ever gets anywhere. (Methinks that algebra is having problems these days) > << If them people want to screw me, let them do all of the work for > themselves. >> > > Now THAT I totally agree with you on. :-) > > Stan Besides I find very little of all this that deserves more than a thought or two and those that do are stored in my "Mark VI Between The Ears Onboard Computer". PHM

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Prologue 9/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Prologue 9/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS ------------------------------------------ Magic Circle: Writing from his room in the Grand Hotel Principe in Limone Piemonte, Jones thanked his old friend for the words of encouragement. The honor, said Sir Eric, "has been won by a lot of hard work by very many people within the circle and on the fringes of it, and it has also been partly won by friendly cooperation from people." Parker Paradox: Representing GCHQ at NSA during the mid-1960s was Reginald H. Parker, a dashing Englishman with an infectious sense of humor. Early Members of the Circle of Eunuchs: Official eavesdropping in Britain is steeped in tradition and shrouded in secrecy. Even Shakespeare made note of the practice when he wrote in Henry V, "The king hath note of all that they intend / By interception which they dream not of." Britain's Royal Mail Openers managed a charmed existence. Their single public scandal occurred in 1844, when Joseph Mazzini charged Secretary of State Sir James Graham with opening his letters and passing the contents on to the Neapolitan government. John Goldhammer of Commercial Cable Company and Clarence H. Mackay of Commercial Cable Postal Telegraph Company. "In July, 1919," explained Goldhammer, "when British censorship ceased, we were ordered by the British Government to turn over to them all messages passing between our own offices, 10 days after they were sent." The original and primary source for information on ECHELON is an article I wrote in New Statesman magazine ten years ago : NS, 12 August 1988 : "They've got it taped". To forge this alliance, the NSA, soon after it was formed, established the National Security Agency Scientific Advisory Board (NSASAB), a ten-member panel of science wizards plucked from ivy-covered campuses, corporate research labs, and sheepskin-lined think tanks. Among the early members of the board was Stewart S. Cairns, who had earned his doctorate at Harvard and was chairman of the mathematics department at the University of Illinois at Urbana (the same school where William Martin, not long before his defection, would be sent on a two-year scholarship). When Vice Admiral Laurence Frost arrived at the Puzzle Palace in the fall of 1960, he found relations between the board and NSA strained and bitter. I LUV FUD! (The Medium is the Enemy): In 1956 Dr. Howard T. Engstrom, a computer wizard and vice president of Remington Rand, took over NSA's research and development organization. The following year he was appointed deputy director of NSA and a year later returned to Remington Rand. Joseph H. Ream, executive vice president at CBS, was imported to replace Engstrom as deputy director. He, too, left after a year; he headed up CBS's Washington office and later CBS-TV's programming department. Ream's interlude at NSA is listed on his CBS biography simply as "retirement." Three months before Ream gave up codebreaking for "I Love Lucy," one of the most important meetings in the history of the Agency took place in a clapboard structure on Arlington Hall Station known as B Building. On July 18, 1957, a handful of the nation's top scientists crowded together in NSA's windowless Situation Room to present a blueprint for the Agency's future technological survival.* Nuclear PigLatin: They...recommended the initiation of a Manhattan Project-like effort to push the USA well ahead of the Soviet Union and all other nations in the application of communications, computer science, mathematics, and information theory to cryptology. Rear Entry: Now the decision had to be made about whether to continue funding, as with Lightning, generalized, public research or to begin to direct those funds toward secret, specialized, cryptologic research. It was a choice between an open bridge or a hidden tunnel between the Agency and the outside scientific community. Following the Baker report, the decision was to use the tunnel. Lost Alamo Chaos: The CRD's statistics are, however, a bit misleading. Shortly after the division's birth, several programs were launched to bring into the secret fraternity several dozen of the nation's most outstanding academic minds in mathematics and languages. The Evil One Writes Black Operatives A Blank Check: "NSA," the Agency declared with all due modesty, "certainly hastened the start of the computer age." Among the early products of that age was the use of computers in the banking industry for everything from the massive transfers of money between banks and other financial institutions, to the simple recording of a midnight transaction at a remote automatic teller. But there was another product: computer crime. With sufficient knowledge and the access to a terminal, one could trick the computer into transferring funds into a dummy account or tickle a cash-dispensing machine into disgorging its considerable holdings. Caveat Emptor [WAS: Of course I luvs you...I fucks you, don't I?]: IBM board chairman Thomas Watson, Jr., during the late 1960s set up a cryptology research group at IBM's research laboratory in Yorktown Heights, New York. Led by Horst Feistel, the research group concluded its work in 1971 with the development of a cipher code-named Lucifer, which it promptly sold to Lloyd's of London for use in a cash-dispensing system that IBM had developed. IBM developed Lucifer with a key 128 bits long. But before it submitted the cipher to the NBS, it mysteriously broke off more than half the key. Government Encryption...There's A Method In Their Madness: >From the very beginning, the NSA had taken an enormous interest in Project Lucifer. It had even indirectly lent a hand in the development of the S-box structures. Debbie Does Ca$h: The Agency, in turn, certified the algorithm as "free of any statistical or mathematical weaknesses" and recommended it as the best candidate for the nation's Data Encryption Standard (DES). DC Does Chelsea: The cozy relationship that the Agency had fostered with IBM would be impossible with the free-wheeling academics. Nevertheless, virtually all the researchers had an Achilles' heel: the National Science Foundation. D'Shauneaux Does DC: Vice Admiral Bobby Inman moved into the Puzzle Palace, replacing newly promoted General Lew Allen, Jr. Fear: Without any authorization, he wrote a threatening letter to the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE), the nation's largest professional engineering society (of which he was a member), warning that those planning to participate in an upcoming IEEE symposium on cryptology might violate the law. Uncertainty: What Meyer emphasized was that ITAR covered the export not only of actual hardware, but also of unclassified technical data associated with the restricted equipment. Disinformation: He claimed that holding symposia and publishing papers on cryptology were the same as exporting the information. Thus, he concluded, "unless clearances or export licenses are obtained" on some of the lectures and papers, "the IEEE could find itself in technical violation of the ITAR." "When time is of essence, he'll rise from the ash.": Nicolai had suddenly been assaulted with one of the oldest weapons in the nation's national security arsenal: the Invention Secrecy Act. Passed in 1917 as a wartime measure to prevent the publication of inventions that might "be detrimental to the public safety or defense or might assist the enemy or endanger the successful prosecution of the war," the measure ended with the conclusion of World War I. The act was resurrected in 1940 and was later extended until the end of the Second World War. Then, like the phoenix, it once again rose from the ashes with the passage of the Invention Secrecy Act of 1951, which mandated that secrecy orders be kept for periods of no more than one year unless renewed. There was a catch, however. The act also said that a secrecy order "in effect, or issued, during a national emergency declared by the President shall remain in effect for the duration of the national emergency and six months thereafter." Because no one ever bothered to declare an end to President Truman's 1951 emergency, the emergency remained in effect until September 1978. The Zimmermann Lineage: To add insult to injury, Nicolai was planning to market his Phasorphone at a price most buyers could easily afford, about $100, thus increasing the interest in the technology. Ted Turner Loves Lucy, Too: The director's tactic was to launch a counterattack on two fronts--one in the open and the other behind the scenes. On the open front, Inman decided to convert to his own use what he believed was his opponent's biggest weapon: the media. Now he himself would begin manipulating the press for the Agency's benefit. Born Classified/Oppressed/Repressed/Depressed: But Inman's most telling comment was his statement to Shapley that he would like to see the NSA receive the same authority over cryptology that the Department of Energy enjoys over research into atomic energy. Such authority would grant to NSA absolute "born classified" control over all research in any way related to cryptology. PGP ProphetSized: Warned Inman: Application of the genius of the American scholarly community to cryptographic and cryptanalytic problems, and widespread dissemination of resulting discoveries, carry the clear risk that some of NSA's cryptanalytic successes will be duplicated, with a consequent improvement of cryptography by foreign targets. No less significant is the risk that cryptographic principles embodied in communications security devices developed by NSA will be rendered ineffective by parallel nongovernmental cryptologic activity and publication. Voluntary 'Dog At Large'Fines: Recognizing the constitutional questions involved in such drastic actions, the study group decided on a middle ground: a system of voluntary censorship. Elvis Assassinated By The Men In Black: Faurer, addressing a meeting of the IEEE, left little doubt that to ignore the Center would be to risk saying good-by to lucrative government contracts. "Frankly," the NSA chief warned, "our intention is to significantly reward those DOD suppliers who produce the computer security products that we need." Monkeywrenching Dave Null: Lack of such cooperation, CIA Deputy Director Inman said at the Center's opening, "might lead to a highly undesirable situation where private-sector users (e.g., banks, insurance companies) have higher integrity systems than the government." Voluntary/Mandatory: As a result of what he called the "hemorrhaging of the country's technology," Inman warned a meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science that "the tides are moving, and moving fast, toward legislated solutions that in fact are likely to be much more restrictive, not less restrictive, than the "voluntary" censorship system of the Study Group. [ADVERTISEMENT] Nuclear Hoover Vacume Gets ALL The Dirt: On the other hand, drug dealers were not the only ones who unwittingly found their way into NSA's magnetic-tape library. Also captured were the hungry demands of wayward congressmen insisting on bribes from foreign governments. You Have A Right To Be Monitored: You Have A Right To Be Kept In The Dark: You Have A Right To No Counsel: The key to the legislation could have been dreamed up by Franz Kafka: the establishment of a supersecret federal court. Sealed away behind a cipher-locked door in a windowless room on the top floor of the Justice Department building, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court is most certainly the strangest creation in the history of the federal Judiciary. Almost unheard of outside the inner sanctum of the intelligence establishment, the court is like no other. It sits in secret session, holds no adversary hearings, and issues almost no public opinions or reports. It is listed in neither the Government Organizational Manual nor the United States Court Directory and has even tried to keep its precise location a secret. "On its face," said one legal authority familiar with the court, "it is an affront to the traditional American concept of justice." You Have A Right To Bend Over: Under such circumstances, it is little wonder that the federal government has never lost a case before the court. Legalizing WaterGate: When the Reagan administration came into office, however, the Justice Department argued that the power for foreign intelligence black-bag jobs was vested not in the court, but in the inherent authority of the President. Presiding Judge Hart, in the court's only published opinion, agreed. Thus, in rejecting the administration's application for a new surreptitious entry, he was in fact going along with the argument of the Justice Department. As a result the rejected break-in and all subsequent surreptitious entries need no court authorization, only presidential approval. Rule of Obscurity [WAS: Rule of Law]: Even more disturbing than the apparent evolution of the surveillance court into an Executive Branch rubber stamp are the gaping holes and clever wording of the FISA statute, which nearly void it of usefulness. Such language, intentional as well as unintentional, permits the NSA to rummage at will through the nation's international telecommunications network and to target or watch-list any American who happens to step foot out of the country. The Information Surveillance Highway: "Electronic surveillance," the statute reads, means "the acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device" of the approved targets. But nowhere does the statute define the meaning of the key word acquisition. Rather, it is left to NSA to define. The Inlsaw/Indio Reservation Gambling Gambit: Thus it is possible for GCHQ to monitor the necessary domestic or foreign circuits of interest and pass them on to NSA through the UKUSA Agreement. Once they were received, NSA could process the communications through its own computers and analysts, targeting and watch-listing Americans with impunity, since the action would not be covered under the FISA statute or any other law. Debbie Does Deputy Dog: No such exclusion, however, was ever included in the final FISA statute. Instead, the statute now calls for what one constitutional law expert has termed "compulsory spy service," requiring "communications common carriers, their officers, employees, and agents . . . to provide information, facilities, or technical assistance to persons authorized by law to intercept wire or oral communications or to conduct electronic surveillance" and also ordering them to protect the secrecy of the operations. CAMP Revisited / Crypto Uzis for Deputy Dog: Under the Reagan executive order, the NSA can now, apparently, be authorized to lend its full cryptanalytic support--analysts as well as computers--to "any department or agency" in the federal government and, "when lives are endangered," even to local police departments. David Waters Predicts SmartSSNCards: Tons of electronic surveillance equipment at this moment are interconnected within our domestic and international common carrier telecommunications systems. Much more is under contract for installation. Perhaps this equipment is humming away in a semi-quiescent state wherein at present "no citizen is targeted"; simply scanned. . . How soon will it be, however, before a punched card will quietly be dropped into the machine, a card having your telephone number, my telephone number, or the number of one of our friends to whom we will be speaking? And once we've rid ourselves of those pesky humans...: "HUMINT [Human Intelligence] is subject to all of the mental aberrations of the source as well as the interpreter of the source," Lieutenant General Marshall S. Carter once explained. "SIGINT isn't. SIGINT has technical aberrations which give it away almost immediately if it does not have bona fides, if it is not legitimate. A good analyst can tell very, very quickly whether this is an attempt at disinformation, at confusion, from SIGINT. You can't do that from HUMINT; you don't have the bona fides--what are his sources? He may be the source, but what are his sources?" Chuck Conners Appointed To Supreme Court--Cows Nervous: Can it be that the Constitution affords no protection against such invasions of individual security? * * Justice Brandeis answered his own question when he quoted from Boyd v. United States (116 u.s. 616): "It is not the breaking of his doors, and the rummaging of his drawers that constitutes the essence of the offense; but it is the invasion of his indefensible right of personal security, personal liberty, and private property. (277 U.S.438, at pages 474-475.) Army of (Black) Dog / Take A Bite Out Of Technotyranny: I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there no return.

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Crypto, anyone?
by andrew fabbro 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I was just wondering if anyone would be interested in discussing cryptography, personal privacy, security protocols, digital signatures, anonymous remailers, digital cash, crypto anarchy...? No? OK, then we can go back to spam, Microsoft bashing, calling each other "idiots" and "chickens," and forwarding News of the Weird for no obvious reason. -- Andrew Fabbro [afabbro(a)umich.edu] [andrewf(a)jesuswept.com] http://www-personal.umich.edu/~afabbro/ 313.647.2713 "We make money the old fashion way. We print it." - DigiCrime

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Re: My Most Abject Apologies
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 98-03-21 22:31:05 EST, paulmerrill(a)acm.org writes: << > In a message dated 98-03-21 02:51:23 EST, you write: > > << OTOH I hear , liberally intermingled, >> WHat I mean is that 2/3 of the posts say they are screwing us out of our rights and 2/3 talk about proof and evidence. Yeah that means that some talk about both. >> Yea, but what I mean is, who are they accusing (the liberals, I'm guessing (sorry cypher's, got a big gig coming up Friday night and I haven't been able to read everything))? << > I'm sure it's happened (like anytime the police want to arrest a black person, > for instance). > Or anyone else they decide to do it to. >> Well, I'm normally a long-haired hippie, so I know what you're talking about. That's part of our history. But these days, at least here in Houston, they seem to be laying off of us a bit, as they really have an idea who's giving them the troubles (and it's the drunk cowboys in their pickup truck, they get in a whole lot of wrecks!) Oh, they still get us, though (through piss-testing (this ain't a 'Democracy' anymore, it's 'Corporate Rule'))! Stan

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Re: Crypto, anyone?
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

andrew fabbro wrote: > > I was just wondering if anyone would be interested in discussing > cryptography, personal privacy, security protocols, digital signatures, > anonymous remailers, digital cash, crypto anarchy...? No? OK, then we > can go back to spam, Microsoft bashing, calling each other "idiots" and > "chickens," and forwarding News of the Weird for no obvious reason. What the fuck is crypto? Can you *say* that on a public mailing list? Isn't child cryptography illegal? Isn't sharing pubic keys a form of perversion? Is digital cash used to buy a blow-job? "How can you tell when Windows is about to crash?" "It boots."

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Emptying the trash...
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Sent to Netscape feedback defartment] The next trash I will be emptying will be my installation of Netscape. Netscape has been my only browser since gaining InterNet access, but I am not going to use a product from a company who requires me to jump through hoops to ensure privacy through strong encryption and then tells me to fuck off because they are incapable of verifying my net persona and/or location. If Netscape intends to make their software compliant with the wishes of those who want to illegally monitor my location and identity, then they should at least require those fascists to supply you with this information for you to use for my convenience in acquiring your product. I send weekly death threats to Bill Gates, but I'll bet my ass that Micro$not lets me download their browser so that he can go to his grave clutching my cash in his hand. ~~~~ Toto <president(a)whitehouse.gov>

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stand-by
by an105＠hotmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, after adjusting claims for several insurance companies, I found one thing the same. No one seems to know much about what they are entitled to. So I decided to help the public towards even footing with insurance adjusters. I have been a crusader for policyholder's rights for a good many years since and received acclaim from state departments' of insurance and state Governors for my work, albeit obscure. Anyway, you may want to bookmark my "deserve" website just in case that rainy day happens to come your way. Socrates never sold insurance, but his words apply to this industry as well: "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." Best wishes, Tony Braga deserve link: http://www.sure-net.com/deserve.html

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Rivest's Chaffing and Winnowing
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The New York Times, March 22, 1998, p. 31. New Method To Veil Data Could Upstage Export Policy Cryptologists find a way to foil eavesdroppers without secret codes. By John Markoff San Francisco, March 21 -- One of the nation's leading computer scientists has proposed a novel technique for scrambling data that could circumvent Government export policies aimed at limiting the foreign sale of encryption technology. The technique, which was described this week in an Internet discussion among computer researchers, was introduced by Ronald L. Rivest, a computer scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and one of the inventors of the most widely used commercial encryption scheme, RSA. The new approach, which is described in a short technical paper that has been posted to Mr. Rivest's M.I.T. Web site (http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/chaffing.txt) is described as "chaffing and winnowing" digital information instead of encrypting it. According to Mr. Rivest's paper, it is possible to hide a message by breaking it into packets that are then secretly identified as good information, or "wheat," and gibberish, or "chaff," in such a way that an eavesdropper cannot distinguish the two. Because the individual packets would not be encrypted, Mr. Rivest said, such a system would circumvent current export restrictions. The two principal ways of communicating in secret are encryption and steganography. Steganography uses computer techniques to embed a secret message in a document like a digital image. In encryption, secret information is encoded using functions that require difficult mathematical tasks to decode, and it has become the standard way of transmitting secret information electronically. There are no restrictions on the domestic use of this technology, but the Government has been trying to force the industry to adopt standards that would permit law-enforcement officials to have mathematical keys allowing them to decode messages without the knowledge of the sender or receiver. The Clinton Administration says the standards are needed to fight crime and terrorism. Opponents argue that the Government decoding keys, to be stored in computers, could easily be stolen, compromising privacy and the security of credit card numbers and other personal information. In terms of exports, with few exceptions the Government limits the software to codes that can be easily broken. "Winnowing does not employ encryption, and so does not have a 'decryption key,' " Mr. Rivest wrote in his paper. "As usual, the policy debate about regulating technology ends up being obsoleted by technological innovations." Peter Neumann, an SRI International computer scientist who has read Mr. Rivest's paper, said that although "there is still no certainty that this is a practical idea," if it works, "it throws another clinker at the Justice Department." Other cryptography experts said they were uncertain whether it would be possible to skirt Government export restrictions in this way, but that the idea was an impressive new approach that might have valuable commercial applications. "He's a very clever guy," said George Spix, a Microsoft researcher who specializes in cryptography policy issues. " It goes to show that for all the technological wizardry in the world, there's nothing like an intellect." One of the potential limitations of the new method is that the total information transmitted might need to be hundreds of times larger than the actual message. Mr. Rivest said, however, that he had discussed the idea with Adi Shamir, an Israeli cryptographer, and that Mr. Shamir had proposed compression methods that would reduce the total transmission to only about twice the actual message size. The strength of the idea for chaffing and winnowing is that it is possible to prove mathematically that a message cannot be decoded, Mr. Rivest said. He said he had come up with the idea recently while teaching an undergraduate computer course. In addition to his role as associate director of the Laboratory of Computer Science at M.I.T., Mr. Rivest is a consultant and shareholder in RSA Data Security Inc., a company that develops encryption software. "I put the winnowing and chaffing idea out there to stimulate debate,"' Mr. Rivest said. "I hope it will help clear up some of the issues that have been raised in the policy discussion. [End]

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Re: Prediction: NAI will issue a "Clarification" about PGP from Europe
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert Hettinga wrote: >John has the drugs. Talk to him. Then you'll ***Understand***... You talking to me? Look at me! Let's settle this now. Get it straight from the purple nose: Not drugs, nuts, A-grade shit, highest quality, cheap E$, dosing me and the other Messiahs vampiring Big DaddyMommy -- that spaced-out hermaphroditic duo's infinitely beyond psycho-pharmacological cryptanalysis. Try it, you'll like it. Endorsed by Thor and Brunhilde, Zeus and Juno, Samson and Delilah, Amazons and Moses, Cleopatra and Nero, Jesus and FHC, Atilla and Joan d'Arc, Machiavelli and Teresa de Avilla, Nietzsche and Cosima, Hitler and Eva, Ghandi and Queen Mary, Elvis and Janis, Paglia and Dice Clay, Teller and Penn, Pogo and Dilbert, NSA and BXA, and others here faking normalcy: Watch for very clear articulation, point by point argument, neat numbered paragraphs, implacable coherency, occcasional bullet spray for emphasis, peculiar indents and concussion grenades, unpredictable ellipses of EM wipeout, wide-area split infinitives, carpet bombs of dangling modifiers, genocidal threats at contra-blancos, vile accusations of self-flagellations, all with not a hair or beard out of place, a sure sign of uh oh, don't jiggle this nitroid. That's just those who post. The others back there, well.

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Re: Prediction: NAI will issue a "Clarification" about PGP from Europe
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:27 AM -0500 on 3/22/98, John Young wrote: > You <snip> >well. Keewwwl... So. John. Don't the trees look like stuffed animals this morning? Cheers, Bob Hettinga <who laughed so hard tears ran down his face upon reading the snip-occluded above. I *love* this list.> ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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RE: UPSs
by Pearson Shane 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Stan, Yeah. Since the big powersupply transformer primary winding is in _parallel_ with the AC power coming from the wall, this inductor will transfer the spikes, etc to the secondary winding and into the bridge rectifier, etc quite nicely. But decent ripple prevention should also help out here. Though this hasn't much to do with PC switchmode powersupplies. An inductor/capacitor spike filter that may be in UPS' would have 2 large inductors in _series_ with the active and neutral and high voltage capacitors in parallel with both ends of the inductors across the active and neutral. This is specifically designed as a low pass filter for getting rid of spikes. I don't think the SW supply would do it quite as well with as much power handling, strength etc. I'd rather a great big low pass filter designed for spike dampening doing the deed than having my PC power supply bearing the brunt of it. It's also an extra layer that is quite cheap. Bye for now. > -----Original Message----- > From: StanSquncr [SMTP:StanSquncr@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 1998 8:51 AM > To: Pearson Shane; spectre(a)anthrax.net; cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Subject: Re: UPSs > > In a message dated 98-03-19 18:48:51 EST, Shane.Pearson(a)tafensw.edu.au > writes: > > << A simple low pass filter made of 2 large inductors and a > few high voltage capacitors will do the trick nicely. >> > > Right. The filtering that's already in the power-supply (except that > the > switching transformer isn't as big as an inductor as a normal > old-style power > transformer. > > Stan

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Re: Rivest's Chaffing and Winnowing
by Kevlar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Now I read about this before it was mentioned on this list, and wanted to comment briefly upon it. Although at first glance this appears to be a hopelessly ineffective way of communicating (it requires double the information, plus MAC's), It does have some interesting possibilities. For instance... Rivest mentioned in his technical paper that you might use this in a situtation where you are multiplexing two or more streams of information, in which one persons "wheat" is another persons "chaff"... This would elminate the need to generate random "chaff", and therefore bring the ammount of wasted space WAY down... I could see this in use in situtations like LAN's or intranets, where bandwidth is not nearly as much of a concern because there is usally an overabundance anyway. Something else that occured to me while reading this tho... a major flaw if implemented "out of the book".... He mentions generating random MAC's... and this would be allright because the chance of randomly generating a genuine MAC is 2**64, or 10**19, but that is unacceptable, as the law of advrages WILL catch up to you eventualy. Therefore his second party adding chaff idea is failable. Of corse, this is easliy remedied at run-time by checking to see if the MAC that was just randomly generated is genuine, and therefore unacceptable. I hope to stimulate discussion on this subject, and welcome your opinions about mine... Peace. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use <http://www.nai.com> iQA/AwUBNRWlqgbVu2P/8fhEEQLxAACbBTO08OT/uYnDPQ1dKJH0xaZi3ocAniXQ Z0O3d1uKcvfLDcbTHPb6PTw2 =aJRQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -Kevlar <Kevlar(a)smartlink.net> Oh, I'm sorry... Was I not suposed to EXPORT STRONG CRYPTO? print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"| dc` Beat your algorithms into swords and your virtual machines into spears... Let the weak say, "I am strong".

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Encryption without encryption - from Ron Rivest
by Martin Minow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a paper entitled "Chaffing and Winnowing: Confidentiality without Encryption," Ron Rivest describes a method of transmitting a document that gives an evesdropper no information about the content of the document. <http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/chaffing.txt> "Winnowing does not employ encryption, and so does not have a``decryption key.'' Thus, the usual arguments in favor of ``keyrecovery'' don't apply very well for winnowing. As usual, the policydebate about regulating technology ends up being obsoleted bytechnological innovations. Trying to regulate confidentiality byregulating encryption closes one door and leaves two open(steganography and winnowing)." Martin Minow minow(a)apple.com

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My post earlier.
by Aspen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sup, It's Kevlar. I posted earlier about the "new" encryption method. It occured to me if you assign the "MAC"'s to computers and make a simple router (some transistors to act at "signaler" lines, one way of corse, so 3 a computer, A few ic's, hardware, and a power supply, ($75)), You have the makings for a basic network. Isn't that allready pattented? Hope I made somebody think for a second. I know I concidered this notion quiet a bit.

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Privacy Development Project
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Developer & Consulting Positions Available Software development firm focusing on Internet privacy and anonymity tools is looking for developers and consultants. Applicants should be interested in the possibility of relocation or travel as development is being done outside of the United States. Applicants will be applying to join an aggressive team, where intelligence, entrepreneurial spirit and technology skills are valued and rewarded. Positions offer competitive salary and benefits along with stock options and bonuses. Interested applicants are asked to forward your c.v. by e-mail to: anonjobs(a)nym.alias.net Positions Offered: ------------------ Project Consultant - Anonymous Technologies and Cryotography ************************************************************ The ideal candidate should be very familiar with anonymous remailers (Type I, Type II, Nymservers), anonymous cash (Digicash), Blind Signatures, Public Key Cryptography and Cryptanalysis. A detailed understanding of anonymous networks and mailer systems will be required to help review the security model of companies system. Experience with C/C++ and software development projects on Solaris, Linux, Windows 95 also a definite asset. Experience on implementation of Cryptography libraries in software design also a definite asset. Software Engineers - Windows 95 ******************************* Successful candidates will have extensive development experience in the Windows environment, good organizational skills and be very success driven. Good knowledge of Visual C++, MFC and OOP a requirement. Interest in privacy, security and cryptography a definite asset. Software Engineers - Unix (Solaris/Linux) ***************************************** Successful candidates will have extensive development experience in the Solaris or Linux environment, good organizational skills and be very success driven. Good knowledge of C++, Internet protocols (HTTP, FTP, SMTP, NNTP), X.509 Certificate authority servers (LDAP) and experience with cryptography are all considered definite assets. The applicant should have a serious interest in technologies as they relate to Internet privacy, security and cryptography.

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Re: UPSs
by rdew＠el.nec.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Stan, Clearly you only considered a few of the semi-cons. Others just stop working, while still others pass anything above the manufacturer design max. Your lack of desire to learn indicates a possible reason why you don't seem to understand ... At my age, I forget some ... What is that old adage about leading a horse to water, but you can't make him read? or something like that! Bob De Witt, rdew(a)el.nec.com The views expressed herein are my own, and are not attributable to any other source, be it employer, friend or foe. > From StanSquncr(a)aol.com Fri Mar 20 14:43:46 1998 > From: StanSquncr <StanSquncr(a)aol.com> > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:50:55 EST > To: rdew(a)el.nec.com, spectre(a)anthrax.net, cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Subject: Re: UPSs > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 98-03-20 16:04:24 EST, rdew(a)el.nec.com writes: > > << If your surge protector is a semi-conductor, it probably will be > self-limiting. That is, it will reach a maximum block, and pass > whatever is above that. >> > > Yes, but what you fail to point out, is the reason it will pass everything, it > will have been blown (shorted, most likely). > > So, because you failed to point this out, I figure the rest of your response > isn't worth responding to. > > Stan >

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AntiChrist Rules
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded from [argo(a)death.com] --------- For those of you fellas who still have the OLD excel 95 (not office 97), try this out : 1. open a new file 2. scroll down until you see row 95 3. click on the row 95 button, this highlights the whole row 4. press tab, to move to the second column 5. now, move your mouse and click on help THEN about Microsoft excel 6. press ctrl-alt-shift and click on the tech support button simultaneously 7. A WINDOW WILL APPEAR, TITLE : THE HALL OF TORTURED SOULS This is really eerie okay...it has a doom style format and you can walk all around the hall...and on the sides of the walls are the names of the tortured souls... 8. NOW WALK UP THE STAIRS AND THEN COME BACK DOWN, FACE THE BLANK WALK AND THEN TYPE IN EXCELKFA this will open the blank wall to reveal another secret passage, walk through the passage and DO NOT fall off, when you get to the end, you will see something really really eerie... At this point in time, countless witnesses all over the world have verified this point...it's really an eye opener. It could be a joke by MS programmers ,or is it? Wouldn't be surprised if Bill Gates was "The Antichrist", after all it,was already foretold in the Bible that someone powerful would rise up and lead the world to destruction. And Bill Gates definitely have that kind of power in his hands. More than 80% of the world's computers run on Windows and DOS (including those at Pentagon!) If all his products have some kind of small program embedded (like this Hall of Tortured Souls) that can give him control, setting off nuclear arsenals, creating havoc in security systems, financial systems all over the world,etc......all from his headquarters isn't a far off reality! Just using Internet Explorer may just allow him to map out what you have on your computer bit by bit each time you log on. Perhaps the end times are near and this is just a tip of the iceberg!? "He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free andslave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666 ." ....Revelation 13:16-18 Something for you to think about. An eerie E-mail for everybody to think about... The Bible, in the Book of Revelation says that without the sign of the beast one would not be able to buy, sell, do business transactions,etc..... and My question to you now is this..... Is Internet now a necessity in doing business? The Internet also bears the sign.... Note that the Internet is also commonly known as the World Wide Web or WWW.. ... One other way we write W is V/ (VI), so ..... W W W VI VI VI 6 6 6 This gives me something to ponder upon ... Isn't everything going towards the Internet? (i.e., buying / selling goods, business transactions) Isn't Microsoft always on the move to have a monopoly when it comes to software technology? And now the Internet? Revelation also says that the mark of the beast will be carried on one's Hand and one's forehead.....If the Internet would indeed be the sign of the beast aren't we all starting to carry it on our hands and foreheads??? Screens (forehead) and make use of the mouse (hand) ??? Are things finally falling into place or are we just letting our imagination run? Remember, the devil came to cheat, steal, and to destroy......... so be VIGILANT!!!! About Bill Gates and Microsoft. PROOF that Bill Gates is the Devil: The real name of "the" Bill Gates is William Henry Gates III. Nowadays, he is known as Bill Gates (III), where III means the order of third (3rd). By converting the letters of his current name to the ASCII-values and adding his (III),you get the following: B 66 I 73 L 76 L 76 G 71 A 65 T 84 E 69 S 83 I 1 I 1 I 1 --------------- 666 !!!! THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST....... Some might think ask, "How did Bill Gates get so powerful?" Coincidence? Or just the beginning of mankind's ultimate and total enslavement? Before you decide, consider the following: MS-DOS 6.21 77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54+46+50+49 = 666 WINDOWS95 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1= 666 Coincidence? You decide...."To agree or to not agree with the WWW or the Beast", is not the question. What if the WWW is the 666? Or Bill Gates be the Beast? What will you do?? Cancel subscriptions to the Internet? Resign from Microsoft? Set out a campaign against Bill Gates in the Internet? Shut down all Windows95 forever? It will not do you any good..... Think about all this and pray, pray really hard, or else......... Never Stop Believing....

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Re: UPSs (and downs ;-) )
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 98-03-23 17:53:21 EST, rdew(a)el.nec.com writes: << Stan, Clearly you only considered a few of the semi-cons. >> Which ones? What do you call a nun that's had a sex-change operation? A trans-sister, what else? :-) << Others just stop working >> You pass enough current through any semi-conductor, it will short, I do believe. And, see below. << while still others pass anything above the manufacturer design max. >> It will short, then it will fry so bad because of the heat from that, that it will eventually open. << Your lack of desire to learn ... >> 'Straw-man' argument. << ... indicates a possible reason why you don't seem to understand ... >> I'll allow our fellow cypherpunks (in particular, the ones with enough guts to use a name instead of 'anom' :-) ) to decide for themselves if they think I understand or not. << At my age, I forget some ... >> So what's your age, the tube age? So, you don't really know anything about semi-conductors, do you? ;-) Stan, Stan and the Sequencers http://members.aol.com/StanSquncr/ Brave Combo on our gig in Houston this Friday night (their website, newletter page, Hot Dates) - "This show will feature a surprise guest opening the show. Don't miss it. Seriously, don't miss it. ... "

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Youwon'thave?To?Totokickaroundanymore...
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

sincethedeathofGomez,myunclehashadadrinkinhishandconstantly,exceptwhen hehasdroppeditonhiskeyboard,fuckingitupandmakingitdostrangethings,suchas nolongermakingspacesappearwhenhepressesthespacekey,whichisnormally calledsomethingelse,however,Ican'ttellyouwhatitscalled,sincethekeyusedtospell itdoesn'twork,either. (hint,veavsi&vutthead,vadvoy-vadvoy-whatcha-gonna-do,whatchagonnadowhen theycomeforyou?,iputthequestionmarkinvyhittingtherightenterkey...) tousetheshiftkeyIhavetotypeanextraletter,sincetheshiftkey,leftone,doesadelete- vackspacevevoreaddingtheshiftedcharacter. thedeathofgomez,whichhappenedwhenthe?N?S?A-?C?I?A?(therightshiftkey addsaquestionmarkveforeaddingtheshiftedcharacter) writingthisislikewhatmyuncletellsmeavoutveingonlsd,hee-hee... couldsomeonesendthisto-villg-at-microsoft.com,please,sinceican't typeayou-know-what-inthecccolonfield?(iputthatquestionmarkinvyhitting the?keywithoutdoingashiftkey--also,ifiguredoutthatthe'v'key,youknowwhich oneimean,doesa'control-v',sinceittriestomakethecharacters'vold'wheni hititvymistake. andcoulddavesmithputthisonhissightasprologue-numverslash0.?(thenumver onekeydoesn'tworkeither,vuticanputaquestionmarkattheendofasentence andthenuseparenthesiswhilesavingakeystrokevecausethekeyvoardputs the?inautomaticallywheniusetherightshiftkey. itisreallyweirdtypingthisstuffwithakeyvoardthatdoesthingsthatarenotdone thewaythatmyvrainandfingersarewired.ivetthatificouldputspacesinthis, thateveryonewouldthinkthatjohnyoungwaswritingit. anyway,ifanyofyouarereally,reallystoned,sostillreadingthisvecauseyou understanditanddon'tseeanythingoddavoutit,couldyoudoakeywordsearch inyahoomountaindeworsomeothersearchengineforaprogramthatletsa personcustomizethekeyvoardsothattheycanusedifferentkeystomakethe charactersthatdon'tworkonthiskeyvoard,andsenditvyemailto-toto-at-the addresswhereallthespamvullshitandcrapolatothecypherpunkslistcomes from?--iamaskingyoutodothisvecausehefuckedupmycomputer,2. myuncleisjustanoldvrokendowndrunkenasshole,vuticanfixhiscomputer ifigetakeyvoardcustomizingprogram,sothanksifyoucansendit. ifsomeonecoulddothis,theniwouldpromisetoquitaskingthecypherpunks womeniftheyarewearingpanties--i'mlying,vuti'mjustakid... ok,vuticouldofferyouavlow-jovifyoudoit,fromoneofvianca'schild-girl apprentices,althoughtheywillkillmewhentheyreadthis... ok,i'mgoingnow,vutihopesomeonewillsendmeaprogramthatwill helpmefixmyuncle'scomputer,evenifhewilluseittospamyourmailing listwithstuffthatyoushouldvelisteningto,exceptthathemakesitsothat youcan'tunderstandwhathe'ssayingunlessyoureallydoputacorkin yourassholesothatyoucanquitthinkinglikeasheeple. thanks, humangus-peter ?(anotherguywhosendsyoushitthatyouwishpeoplewouldstopsending toyourmailinglist,eventhoughithinkyouguysarecool,eventhegrouchy onesliketimmayandthespookyguyslikekentcrispinwhowouldprovavly veacircleofeunuchsguyiftheyweren'twatchinghimsoclose--he'sstill alive,likedalethorn.?) isn'titcoolhowiautomaticallygetaquestionmarkveforetheparenthesis,and canmakeaquestionmarkwithoutusingtheshiftkey? pps-ifyoudon'tunderstandsemiotics,thentherearekidsinsaskatchewan whoaresmarterthanyou,evenifyouknowavoutplutoniumdecayratesand wheretheyellowwiregoes. i'llquitveforeyouthinki'mascrazyasmyuncle. ppps-i'malwaysaskingpeoplewhopostfrom?A?(h?)?O?Liftheyarewearing panties,vuttheydon'tgetthejoke,andi'mnotsurethatido,either,vuti'mgoing tokeepondoingit. pppps-anarchistusedeltekeys,they'reimmortalcypherpunks...

2 1

Cryptologic...
by lcs Mixmaster Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Has anyone ever taken a look at Cryptologic (www.cryptologic.com)? They make Internet casino software and processed 500 million dollars in bets last year with their 'Proprietary' encryption algorithm for security and their own ecash system. You'd think with that much money being transmitted over the net with an untested algorithm, someone might just test the situation for them.... Maybe someone already has, and doesn't feel like making it public? Who knows...

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Re: Bill Gates the AntiChrist?
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sorry "nobody", your buddy Pat Robertson is the anti-Christ, therefore, it ain't Bill. And if it isn't Pat Robertson, it's your boss Rep. Newt Gingrich ("King(OfThe)Rich"). ;-) In a message dated 98-03-23 19:11:31 EST, a real "nobody" writes: << "He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free andslave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666 ." ....Revelation 13:16-18 >> Former President Ronald Reagan (other wise known as the 'piss-test President') bought a house with the address of 666, as I understand. Stan ======= "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the anti-Christ." (Pat Robertson - The 700 Club, January 14, 1991)

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Prologue 11/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS !!!
by Six 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Prologue 10/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!! ---------------------------------------------- [Author's Nephew Note: My uncle started writing this chapter, which is the first one he actually wrote in his own autobiography, since it was started by god-only-knows-who (TM) but I am going to finish it, since space-bar aliens stole his drugs and his 'b' key, etc., and I know everything he knows, only I'm not going to sugar-coat it, since I'm just a kid and I want to have a life, which I'm not going to have if you old guys and broads keep fucking up the world the way you have been doing so far. If you don't like what I have to say, then it's just because you are too comfortable in your beliefs and your position in life to risk upsetting the apple-cart in order to really support the people and belief-systems that you know are the right ones to make the world a place where everyone will really be free and have rights, even if you have to lose some of the things you have in order for others to be able to have a chance to compete with you, even if they don't have big guns and nuclear weapons. Sorry I have to speak honestly, but we're all fucked if things don't change real soon, so that everyone can contribute to rEvolution. Thanks.] [p.s. - I still can't use my browser, but I can use email, so send my uncle a keyboard-fixer pointer or program, if you can. Thanks.] [p.p.s. - If you are sober and straight, then you might have noticed that my post "Youwon'thaveTototokcikaroundanymore" to the cypherpunks list spelled 'keyboard' correctly, even though I claimed that the 'b'/'v' key didn't work. It does, in fact, work, about one time in ten. The fact that it worked intitially, in order to make it look like I am crazy, like my uncle, and just making all of this shit up, is either due to Murphy's Law, or to the ongoing plot by the Evil One and the Forces of Darkness against Scotch drinkers.] [Prologue 10/0, proper:] Army of One: Ted Kaczynski Army of Sundry: Timothy McVeigh Army of God: Dr. William Michael Bray Army of Dog: Dr. Wm. Michael Denney: Anyone who has followed the Fusillade Follies with even a modicum of interest is likely to have noted that, in Guerilla Operations, the old adage, "There's safety in numbers.", does not apply. The Uno-bomber was successful for a period spanning decades quite simply because he lived and acted within a sphere of individual anarchism which approached being as exemplary a model as is possible to aspire to in the current social and governmental environment of our times. Most importantly, he exhibited a level of self-reliance which allowed him to avoid many of the governmental regulations and societal entrapments which are used to monitor, categorize and attach physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual footprints to the majority of the Sheepletariat herded in the comfortable feeding pens provided for them by those whose ultimate goal is to clip their wool and eat their meat. In the end, TK opted to forgoe the immortality of infamy for a turn upon the public soapbox which elevates us above the maddening crowd and into the limelight for our fifteen minutes of fame, and which is then dismantled in order to build the crucifix upon which our carcass is publically raized. (This, however, is merely an illusion propogated by the rulers to please the masses. The truth of the matter is, the end we eventually come to is inevitably the result of being hoisted on our own petard.) His success in promoting his agenda over a considerable length of time was in avoiding the attachment, which is so natural for us, of our physical, mental and emotional self-image to the herd which surrounds us. Too little, and too late, do we usually stop to make our own evaluation as to where the herd is headed--be it into the pen, over the cliff, or into the railway cars. It is only when we attempt to leave the herd that we encounter the teeth of the dogs that the masters have set upon us, to keep us from straying from the destiny the butchers have preordained for us from the moment of our bleating birth. Those Sheeple who manage to separate from the herd usually do so, not by *bolting* from the pack, but by *wandering* from the pack, whether it be out of ignorance or cunning. The same applies to the Wolverines in Sheeples clothing. "Picture a weasel -- and most of us can do that, for we have met that little demon of destruction, that small atom of insensate courage, that symbol of slaughter, sleeplessness, and tireless, incredible activity -- picture that scrap of demoniac fury, multiply that mite some fifty times, and you have the likeness of a Wolverine." ~ Ernest Thompson Seton 1906 Timothy McVeigh succeeded in [OK, here's where *I* start, OK?] Timothy McVeigh succeeded in his attempt to give America a wake-up call, due to the fact that he was the next step above Kaczynski, who kept his own counsel, as Shakespeare would say. McVeigh 'kept it in the family.' TM shared his true goal/plan only with members of his immediate (conceptual) family, such as Terry Nichols. He shared the concepts which he believed in with the members of his extended family, such as those at Elohim City, which was why the BATF, who had their spies in the encampment, were able to follow and support TM's plan, and keep themselves alive by not being at the Murrah Federal Building when the fertilizer/shit hit the fan, despite the fact that they thought they could 'save the day' at the last minute with a partial knowledge of McVeigh's plans. (The fact is, TM knew full well that 'the watchers' were keeping track of his actions/plans, so he purposely obstruficated them in order to give the BATF reason to believe that they could 'ride to the rescue' at the last moment.) Dr. William Michael Bray, an early follower of the underground movement which resulted in the formation of the Circle of Eunuchs, made the decision to take the concepts involved and move them into a MeatSpace arena which would allow him to be a big fish in a little pond--the arena of Fundamental Christian anti-abortion rhetoric. Dr. Bray promoted MeatSpace concepts which addressed the right of individuals to make their own decisions as to what actions were justified in countering the effects of that which they saw as evil in the society around them. He was hung upon society's cross for this, though they never quite managed to fully 'nail' him to it. What Dr. William Michael Bray was able to accomplish was basically due to the fact that the concepts he expresed were valid, although he failed to mention that each individual should first seek to explore alternatives to first-strike/active-violence before acting, in case there was an alternative route that they were capable of taking which would be capable of achieving similar effects while doing a minimum of damage to those who they believed must be prevented from continuing their abuse of their fellow humans. (i.e. - Before acting upon the exhortations of TM [Tim May, Timothy McVeigh, TruthMonger], they should consider the exhortations of Blanc, who is currently trying to distance herself, as much as possible, from the sundry death threats being sent to BadBillyG by various entities who have hacked Toto's account since his InterNet account password was placed on the mailing lists of various hackers' confereneces.) A recent 'NightLine' TV show dealing with the 'Army of God' made note of the fact that much of their success was due to the fact that their actions were 'senseless' (hard to quantify, therefore hard to trace, or attriute to a specific individual). In essence, the reason that the MeatSpace 'Army of God' has been so effective is because they exist only in their own minds. The AOG consists of individuals who have read and accepted the writings/works of those in the anti-abortion movement, and have taken it upon themself to take independent actions to interfere with things which they see as being contrary to what they see as right/righteous. Dr. William Michael Denney, who was recently castrated from a company which he founded, Basis Incorporated, by Prologic (an NSA/CIA company- killing entity), also recognized the power of small gorilla units to be able of acting according to their own conscience, without making themself a visible target to those whose life revolves around hammering down the nail that sticks up, even if their skin-color is not yellow, their eyes are round, and they have never received an email from Tim May which includes the words, "chop,chop." Dr. Denney, Gomez to those within the Magic Circle, had the character and foresight to act on the dictates of his own conscience without ever indulging in braggadacio in regard to his many accomplishments in subtly opposing the ongoing march of dark and evil technological forces whose aim has always been to bring humankind under the thumb of the bits and bytes which the Evil One has appointed to rule over the independent, chaotic, evolution of humankind (formerly known as 'mankind,' before those 'uppity women' demanded the right to vote). [The following is a note that my uncle made in regard to the direction that this chapter would take. You already know what he is referring to, although I will explain it for those of you who are George Carlin fans, and refuse to acknowledge any piece of inbred/inherent information/understanding until he has put it upon one of his comedy albums, or on an HBO special.] {Global InterNet of individuals/Way to win war against Statism/NWO is to create maximum entropy/the chaos of semiotic rEvolution.--sog} *** OK, the 'Army of Dog' is born!!! *** Army of Dog: Read that crapola that my uncle spammed to the CypherPunks mailing list about BioSemiotics. Yeah, I know--it will hurt your head, but you really need to understand this shit, since the advertising executives who gave you Crest toothpaste and Ronnie RayGuns have evolved their mind-control activities to encompass the new technologies being opened up by the marriage of quantum physics and post-Darwinian evolution theories. In essence, those who understand that TV was/is the 'opiate of the people' have a 'cubic centimeter of chance' to understand that the InterNet is the 'evolution of the people.' If you truly understand this biosemiotic concept, then you also have a remote chance of understanding that being *active* in regard to the interactive extension of the mind-numbing medium/opiate of TV enables you to participate in the true rEvolution which will ultimately decide whether humankind is an active particpant in the unfolding of the universe around them, or merely a pawn in the cold, unfeeling evolution of artificial intelligence which is pulling out to pass in the fast lane of the Information Highway because it does not suffer from the same emotional and spiritual constraints of the human entities who gave birth to it. "The number of possible solutions for selection to scrutinise, and the subtlety of the communicational interactions, will tend to produce a no-win situation. As a result selection cannot really measure the stakes of single players (individuals, demes, or species) in the game, but it could still influence the choice of the game itself. Plays, not players, are selected for." ~ Joseph Hoffmeyer The Bottom Line: Whose play are you backing? Statism is not the enemy. rEvolution is not the enemy. The true enemy is our tendency to listen to the external voices which claim authority over our beliefs, values and actions, as opposed to listening to the inner voice which tells us when we are being true to the role which we were born/destined to play upon our entry into this physical sphere which constitutes the 'gamewad' which we all must successfully transverse in order to move to the next level of 'play' in the universal scheme of things. The Statists are attempting to prevent the forward-reaching rEvolutionaries from creating so much Chaos that there is no way to steer the course of future human evolution. The rEvolutionaries are attempting to prevent the Statists from writing the present in concrete, to the extent that those whose goal in life is to fly too close to the sun will never get off the ground. The Army of God represents every MeatSpace mentality which strives to live by its limited, physically-oriented beliefs, and force everyone else to do the same. Their glory is that they act upon those beliefs, even though it goes contrary to the statist ethics and morals of those who believe that the key to survival lies in not rocking the boat, no matter how badly it is leaking. The Army of Dog represents every CyberSpace NetiZen who strives to resist the imposition of MeatSpace mentality, rules and laws upon a new social and governmental paridigm which goes far beyond the physically limited rules and regulations designed to enforce geographical ethics and values upon a populace which is evolving beyond MeatSpace limitations which Digital Dinosaurs are attempting to impose on the children of the Digital rEvolution. Their glory is that they act upon those beliefs, even though it goes contrary to the statist ethics and morals of those who believe that the key to survival lies in not rocking the boat, no matter how badly it is leaking. The Army of Dog, like the Circle of Eunuchs, is an unstructured entity which is built upon the foundation of 'A Thousand Points of Fight.' The result is an army of CyberSoldiers who are capable of acting upon their own initiative, according to their own ethics and values, without limiting their actions to be consistent with a static view of ethics/morality defined by an averaging of the Sheeple mentality with the views espoused by the MainStream Press. Dave Foreman and Earth First exemplify an organization of individuals who committed themselves to pursue a commonly-held goal independently of one another, in ways which reflected the individual's own talents, beliefs, and self-proclaimed responsibilities to themselves and to their fellow humans. CyberSpace, which represents the evolution of MeatSpace, will fare no better than our current geophysical system, unless CyberWarriors arise to guide and influence its evolution in a manner that reflects the right of every NetiZen to freely express their persona, character, beliefs and personal ethics, without censorship or repression from those who hold different beliefs and values. The rEvolution is NOW! The key to moving the rEvolution of humankind forward into a new paridigm that encompasses a Global Information Democracy lies in instituting a Joe SixPack rEvolutionary Recruitment Drive. Jane and Joe MeatSpace need to be unindated with information which contadicts the mainstream psychobabble which they are subjected to, each and every day, by those who wish to maintain the status quo (which was designed to keep the Sheeple in subjection to the rule/authority of those who occupy a privileged position in our current society). If you are not promoting and taking part in the rEvolution (which will decide the biosemiotic future of man, mind and technology), then you are part of the breath-analyzer problem, instead of the alcoholic solution... [This last concept is undoubtedly the result of my having imbibed a bit too much of the hair of my uncle's Dog. "You're in the Army, now, You're in the Army, now, You'll never get rich, you son-of-a-bitch, You're in the Army now!"] <EOB> (End of Bottle)

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Re: Or is it Pat Robertson?
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sorry about the duplication, but I just decyphered something (is decyphering ok on a 'cypher' list? :-) ) - In a message dated 98-03-23 22:46:09 EST, StanSquncr(a)aol.com writes: << "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the anti-Christ." (Pat Robertson - The 700 Club, January 14, 1991) >> You see, add 14 + 1 + 9 + 9 + 1 and you get 34. 700 - 34 is, guess what - 666! I guess that proves it! ;-) Stan

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Re: Or is it Pat Robertson?
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 98-03-24 00:31:09 EST, whgiii(a)invweb.net writes: << >You see, add 14 + 1 + 9 + 9 + 1 and you get 34. >700 - 34 is, guess what - 666! >I guess that proves it! ;-) Hmmm Louis Farakan school of Number Theory >> Hmmm, didn't seem to bother you when the same theory was used against Bill Gates! Not surprized, the response came from, you guessed it cypher's, another paranoid "Know-nothing" - << -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNRdFpo9Co1n+aLhhAQFDpgP8CEFgqntvKfNWWXuPgo0M8pyvYMudl51p g/QyXmn2bs9WZ+3WYwDZlzvirKPa1LuDK85zUGGemMPbZQg2y7PSkyIi3F9kCqoC PLOnCW1ft2dbmiaRZxqbR6LcTU5Ti24XZoe70du0nz6M5vw8vPVW96ZCx0W9Vt2r DXkeg20YFYQ= =a5pE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Stan

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Re: Computer Expert Witness Needed *Immediately*
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:09 PM 3/23/98 -0800, "Roger D. Slates II" <slates(a)INREACH.COM> wrote, on another list: >A computer expert is needed immediately to testify as an expert witness in >an ongoing criminal matter in Federal District Court in Los Angeles. Kevin >Mitnick is seeking a highly credentialed expert in computer security, >telecommunications, system and network administration to testify in this >highly publicized computer "hacking" case. >This will be a groundbreaking case and is expected to attract significant >media coverage. Testimony will be required as early as March 30, 1998 in >Los Angeles, California. Further testimony will be needed at trial, later >this year. Expert witness fees will be paid by the federal court. >Qualified candidates must have an advanced degree and be knowledgeable in >DOS, Windows 3.ll, Unix (SunOs & Solaris), VAX/VMS, and Internet >operations. Experience with cellular telephone networks is a plus. > Previous expert testimony and/or publication are preferred. >Qualified candidates, please contact Mr. Mitnick through his appointed >defense counsel, Donald C. Randolph, Esq. at (310) 395-7900 or write to him >at: Donald C. Randolph, Esq., Randolph & Levanas, 1717 4th Street, Third >Floor, Santa Monica, CA 90401-3319. Email address is: >randlev(a)worldnet.att.net > > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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Stan the Asshole
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Stan is an asshole, an annoyance on this list. I've killfiled anything with his email address in any header. I suggest everyone do the same. When he gets no responses to anything he posts, he will eventually go away, probably to where "Liberals Go To Die." If you encourage him, I won't see your responses. I don't wade through the blizzard of this list to have to wipe splashes of airhead liberal shit out of my eyes at every other step. GodILoveFiltersMonger II

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Hello
by Bill 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hey Stan, how is the MLM business. Oh, lets not forget the adult WebSites also.

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FASTEST / BEST EXTRACTORS YET !
by aim＠cysnet.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The three new programs that are sweeping the industry......... HURRICANE..Extremely fast.This extractor goes to major search engines (you can pick from a list of 10 of the most popular search engines) and conducts a search by keyword or keywords. It then spiders the web pages that come up as search results extracting the email addresses and saving them in a plain text format. You can define how deep the search is to be. You can filter out addresses such as those with webmaster or admin. You can use additional filters to have the software only include url's containing certain keywords. It can also eliminate certain url's with specified keywords. This makes for some very tight targeting. The cost of Hurricane is $ 250 but scroll down to see the package deal. For a demo of Hurricane call toll free 800-942-7913 The demo will work showing you how fast and accurate the software is but you will not be able to save or use the addresses collected. GEO SNAKE - This is a targeted list builder that could also be used to collect general addresses. You input a city and state and hit the start button, kick back and watch it collect. Quite fast. Easy to use. The cost of GEO SNAKE is $250.00 For A Demo of Geo Snake call toll free 800-942-7913 The demo will let you see how fast and easy it is to use but it will not save or let you use the addresses collected. Note: Please read the help file in that it is a bit tricky inserting the name of a city in the program. First select a state and then go to options then search then add and then enter the name of the city or cities you want to search for email addresses in. NEWS SLEUTH - This software extracts email addresses from newsgroup postings by keyword. It targets. Very fast and easy to use. This software has a number of useful options to help you get the exact results you want so reading the help file is recommended. The demo will allow you to see how fast and easy it is to use but will not allow you to save or use the addresses collected. Cost of News Sleuth is $250.00 For a Demo of News Sleuth call 800-942-7913 Hurricane, Geo Snake & News Sleuth - all for $600.00 Call today!! or fax us at 732-367-2229

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McKinney fax
by bill payne 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tuesday 3/24/98 7:14 AM Fax Cynthia McKinney 124 Cannon Building Washington, DC 20515 Office: (202)225-1605 Fax: (202)226-0691 http://www.house.gov/mckinney/ Dear Representative McKinney: PURPOSE of this fax is to verify whether or not you received our attached certified [Z 216 838 966] return receipt letter dated Thursday 3/12/98 7:34 AM with enclosures REASON is that the green Domestic Return Receipt card was returned to the Albuquerque Ed Dorado postal substation on Friday March 20 with no signatures or date of delivery. Postal employee Steve filled out a yellow tracer for item Z 216 838 966 and posted it. A federal employee in Washington DC following this matter on Internet at http://www.aci.net/kalliste and http://www.jya.com phoned on March 16 to advise that the US federal government strategy is to provoke a citizen in the hope the citizen will do something illegal. Then the government will prosecute that citizen. The attached petition for writ of prohibition dated Thursday 3/18/98 addressed to Antonin Scalia illustrates a desperate attempt to entrap us. NM district judge Don Svet attempted to limit discovery in our lawsuit seen at jya.com. Svet's ORDER violates the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Svet attempts to sanction us for violating his illegal ORDER. Bureaucrats, court clerks, and judges not who do not respond to lawfully submitted requests create the impression that there is no administrative or legal remedy left for a citizen in the US. Government lawyers frequently, if not most often, initiate a conflict with the citizen. The citizen is led to believe that he or she must employ a lawyer to have any hope to prevail with legal or administrative remedy. We believe that bureaucrats, court clerks and judges should follow the laws of the United States of America and properly perform their jobs. We ask your and other congress members' help to make bureaucrats, court clerks and judges do their jobs properly. First by getting copies of Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals docket sheets No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia to us. Sincerely, Arthur R. Morales William H. Payne 1023 Los Arboles NW 13015 Calle de Sandias NE Albuquerque, NM 87107 Albuquerque, NM 87111 Distribution Ben Nighthorse Campbell administrator(a)campbell.senate.gov Ernest Hollings senator(a)hollings.senate.gov Trent Lott senatorlott(a)lott.senate.gov Richard Shelby senator(a)shelby.senate.gov Charles Robb Senator_Robb(a)robb.senate.gov Jim Lehrer newshour(a)pbs.org Thursday 3/12/98 7:34 AM Certified - Return Receipt Requested Cynthia McKinney 124 Cannon Building Washington, DC 20515 Office: (202)225-1605 Fax: (202)226-0691 http://www.house.gov/mckinney/ Dear Representative McKinney: PURPOSE of this letter is to ask your help for us to obtain copes of docket sheets from the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals for cases No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia. All of our legal efforts to obtain these documents, which any citizen has a right to, have failed. REASON you are selected to help is that you appear to be knowledgeable about operation of the current US federal government and willing to speak out in an attempt to solve problems. You appeared Friday February 27, 1998 on PBS, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, along with senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby Robb and representatives Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers. These senators and congressmen appeared not to support your views because they are either mis- or not well-informed about US involvement in support of Saddam Hussein. Stories supporting your view appear on Internet at NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm and Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html Madsen begins It may be the greatest intelligence scam of the century: For decades, the US has routinely intercepted and deciphered top secret encrypted messages of 120 countries But NSA , and as a result the US federal government, apparnetly got caught involved in complicity of deaths of about 500,000 Iranians. This is the subject of a Federal lawsuit seen on Internet at http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm US federal government help of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war may possibly backfire on innocent US citizens. The Wall Street Journal, March 10, 1998, pp. B1, B9. reports A Peek Inside a Giant Germ Warehouse By Rochelle Sharpe Rockville, Md. -- They keep anthrax bacteria in the basement of a faded red-brick building here. It isn't far from the yellow-fever virus, the botulism bacteria and some of the hundreds of organisms that cause the common cold. In fact, there are samples of 85,000 different fungi, viruses, cells, genes and bacteria here at the American Type Culture Collection, by far the largest of the 450 repositories of biological materials scattered around the globe. ... The ATCC legally shipped 10 vials of anthrax, botulism and other deadly substances to Iraqi scientists in the 1980s -- when the U.S. and Iraq were on much friendlier terms -- all with the Commerce Department's approval. ... http://www.jya.com/btn031198.txt The US federal government apparently intended these bioweapons to be used against the people of Iran. You demonstrated on PBS TV a quality identified by Francis Bacon The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention. by your statement about Saddam Hussein on PBS ...our man and our creation... Perhaps after reading the above materials and The Problem of Paradigm Shifts - Terrorism and the Threat From Weapons of Mass Destruction in the Middle East Working Draft Anthony H. Cordesman, Senior Fellow and Co-Director Middle East Studies Program October 22, 1996 http://www.csis.org/mideast/terror.html senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby, Robb and representatives Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers MAY NOW understand why you are correct and they are mis- or not well-informed about US involvement with Saddam Hussein. PROBLEM we face with the US court system is that court clerks and judges have committed Title 18 felony violation of law IN WRITING in an attempt to deny us monetary compensation due us for the cases WE WON at the Tenth Circuit on Appeal. But judges awarded victories to the US federal government in violation of Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure. Cases No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia were both won pro se on appeal. We have filed a writ of mandamus with supreme court judge Scalia in an attempt to get the docket sheets for the two above cases. But Scalia will not answer our certified letters. Senator McCain wrote Payne on December 23, 1997 I wanted to take this opportunity of than you for you letter of December 3, 1997. Your situation is in the jurisdiction of Senator Pete Dominici. Therefore, I have forwarded you letter to his attention. William, I hope you situation can be resolved favorably. Lawyers and politicians Dominici and Bingaman are part of a problem not a solution. Dominici and Bingaman have the following agenda University of New Mexico Bureau for Business and Economic Research reported on October 14, 1997: A The Gross State Product of New Mexico is $37.8 billion. B The US Federal government sends $11.3 billion to New Mexico each year. C For each $1 New Mexico sends to Washington, New Mexico gets $2 back. THEREFORE, Representative McKinney, we ask your help to get copies of the docket sheets. Citizens of the US are becoming more upset with the behavior of bureaucrats, the courts [lawyers], and the US federal government. Some Americans have no other way to express their dissatisfaction with US federal government mismanagement of our country except by violence. Frederick Douglass either wrote or said on August 4, 1847 Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightening. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them. These will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. We chose to use the words and law to hold government employees accountable. Please encourage Scalia to do his job. Help get us copies of the docket sheets. And even perhaps help investigate further and settle this American tragedy. Sincerely, Arthur R. Morales William H. Payne 1023 Los Arboles NW 13015 Calle de Sandias NE Albuquerque, NM 87107 Albuquerque, NM 87111 Enclosures 1 NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe 2 Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen 3 Swiss Radio International Audio tape, 15 May, 18 July 1994 Distribution Ben Nighthorse Campbell administrator(a)campbell.senate.gov Ernest Hollings senator(a)hollings.senate.gov Trent Lott senatorlott(a)lott.senate.gov Richard Shelby senator(a)shelby.senate.gov Charles Robb Senator_Robb(a)robb.senate.gov Jim Lehrer newshour(a)pbs.org

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Re: Or is it Pat Robertson?
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 98-03-24 06:43:54 EST, whgiii(a)invweb.net writes: << > Hmmm Louis Farakan school of Number Theory >> >Hmmm, didn't seem to bother you when the same theory was used against >Bill Gates! Not surprized, the response came from, you guessed it >cypher's, another paranoid "Know-nothing" - Yes Stan and you are here to "save" us all. >> And what planet are you on? I'm hear as the result of a big war I had with a moderator. << Twit. >> William seemed to accurately sign-off this time! :-) Stan

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Re: Stan the Asshole
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 98-03-24 09:06:28 EST, mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com writes: << Stan is an asshole, an annoyance on this list. I've killfiled anything with his email address in any header. I suggest everyone do the same. When he gets no responses to anything he posts, he will eventually go away, probably to where "Liberals Go To Die." If you encourage him, I won't see your responses. I don't wade through the blizzard of this list to have to wipe splashes of airhead liberal shit out of my eyes at every other step. GodILoveFiltersMonger II >> Hey, I requested off this list ages ago. Why don't you simply pull my subscription and we'll ALL be happy? :-) Stan

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'Virus Alert!' or 'Re:Stan the Savior?'
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

whgiii(a)invweb.net - << Yes Stan and you are here to "save" us all. >> If you look up in your definition of the word "save", maybe, EXCEPT, there's bound to be at least a couple of people on this list that don't need saving. ;-) But really, what I'm here to save, is your computers - ======== Subj: What if - God and SuperMan got into a fight - no, I found this on a Rush newsgroup - ----------------------------- Subject: If Rush was a computer virus... From: lotus(a)hogpe.ho.att.com (-R.CAPIK) Date: 21 Mar 1996 17:16:10 GMT What if there was a Rush Limbaugh computer virus. What might it do? What about some other political figures... ? Ron Capik [aka: the NJ Editorial Minstrel ] ----------- Forbes virus: Makes all your programs give 17% of their resources back to your system. We have no idea what the system will do with the resources. (Only applies to earned resources.) At a cost of millions (in un-earned resources), the virus runs for a short time then quits. <see Perot virus> Buchanan virus: All your icons move to the far right of your screen. Bill Clinton virus: Your pointer jumps back and forth across the middle of the screen, seems to drift to the left and you can't seem to pick any programs. If you have a sound card you may hear the sound of rushing [white] water. Limbaugh virus [aka: ditto virus]: All icons line up under the Rush icon where ever it may go. Bill Clinton #2 Icons turn purple and explode. (May be triggered by conservative input) Dole virus: We don't quite know what it may do, but it seems to have been in the system for a very long time. May cause system to enter sleep cycle. Perot virus: Ran for a short time in 92 then quit. It may also be active for a short time in 96. May cause space alien problems with daughter programs. Hillary virus: Causes text to appear on your screen years after you lost it. May trigger "Bill Clinton #2" virus. May also cause rushing [white] water sound. ---------- What if, Stan had written those virus descriptions? - Buchanan virus [aka - "Sap" (of the 'Family (Values) Tree')]: All your icons move to the far right of your screen, and then, any icon that depicts a face gets covered up by a white coned shape hat (and sheets, if the icon is of a whole person). The rest of the icons turn into pitch-forks, and swastikas. The (now) covered 'people' icons then grab the 'pitch-fork' icons, and run off the *extreme* right side of the screen. The swastikas remain on your screen, and cannot be removed, for they are burned into the phosphor. Your computer then logs on to America OnLine, goes to the 'government' forum, and then the (now) covered 'people' icons return (in groups), with the 'pitch-fork' icons, to the screen, and start attacking America (OnLine), starting with the 'government' (forum). The instant the Buchanan virus infects your computer, it attempts to kill all forms of the 'Jerusalem' virus (but it never gets them all). Limbaugh virus [aka - "Whiner"]: All icons line up under the Rush icon wherever it may go. As soon as 'Limbaugh' infects your computer, it (along with any other virus that will join it) attempts to kill the 'Clinton' virus, and the 'Hillary' virus (but doesn't succeed, only weakens them temporarally, then they become much stronger, and impossible to remove for another '4 More Years!'). Then it starts attacking any other viruses 'Limbaugh' thinks is vulnurable, including the viruses that had joined it in attacking the 'Clinton' viruses. The only viruses that the 'Limbaugh' virus has been know to truly rid your system of, though, is the 'Limbaugh' virus, and the virus' that believe that the 'Limbaugh' virus is a 'truth detector' type virus, or that the 'Limbaugh' virus is on 'loan from god', etc. The 'Limbaugh' virus self-destructs after 7 or 8 years (and it can't understand why). Gingrich [aka - "KingRich" (King of the Rich)]: This virus affects applications that have an ability to recreate previous commands given to that application while editing a document of that application, using a 'history' or 'undo' command. 'KingRich' attaches itself to the 'history' files, and selectivly changes certain portions in it. So if you make a mistake, and you need to go back and recreate your file before your mistake, you can still go back, but you'll probably find the icons that represent your best work that you had placed on the left side of your screen, now on the right of it, and those icons that open your worst work, and previously placed on the right, you'll now find that on the left. Gingrich #2 [aka - "CryBaby"]: This virus goes to the back of your pci, vesa,16bit, or 8bit bus, and makes your hard drive make a real loud 'whining' noise and your soundcard starts making a 'crying' sound through your audio setup or speakers. On your screen, 'CryBaby' places the message "I'm going to shut the system down because I had to go to the back of the bus!", and it causes your computer to go into 'default' (meaning, it causes you to lose your CMOS memory, and it restarts with power-on 'defaults'). And we now know what the Dole virus will do - Dole virus [aka - "Quitter"]: This virus attacks your hard drive, causing it to make a real loud 'whining' noise. Then it quits, and you never have to worry about it again. To learn how to detect and remove these viruses from YOUR system, register at - What's A Meta U (and What's It 2 U?) http://members.aol.com/WhatsMetaU ===== Stan

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Re: McKinney fax
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 98-03-24 11:02:35 EST, billp(a)nmol.com (of the cypherpunks) writes: << We believe that bureaucrats, court clerks and judges should follow the laws of the United States of America and properly perform their jobs. >> We (if I speak for others on the cypherpunks list, that is (I'm a guest)) believe that the laws Bill is talking about, is the "Constitution of the United States of America/Bill of Rights" For instance, Article VI part 3 - "3 The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." " ... but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." And, to the pbs newshour, we (with same exclusion as above) believe that YOU need to get a true voice from the left for your panels. Sheilds only speaks from a left POV 'some of the time' (and it ain't enough of the time.) And to Senator Lott - 'Have a happy father's day!' (President Clinton) Stan Rosenthal, FreeGroup - "Just Say It!" http://members.aol.com/WhatsMetaU/freegroup.html

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Hey, I requested off this list ages ago. >Why don't you simply pull my >subscription and we'll ALL be happy? :-) >Stan Because we are all laughing at you, you stupid bastard.

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

...and then there is the "StanSquncr" virus that prompts you to pawn your computer for a $20 crackrock. Two hours later, you find yourself on a street corner sucking dick for $5 rocks. I'm your REAL daddy, Stan.

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Chaffing and Winnowing
by Anonymous Sender 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Aside from the considerable overhead created by C/W, I observe a possible pitfall. suppose I start every new message at ID# 0. The first time I C/W a message everything works fine. The next time I C/W a message with the same MAC, I give some very juciy clues to what both messages were. This is because the item that the MAC applied to was an ID number and a bit. well, that bit is either zero or one... so any bit that corresponds between my first and second message will yield an identicle MAC, thus making it easy for anybody to seperate some of the wheat from the chaff, merely by simple observation. though in a real implementation, I probably wouldn't be so niave as to start every new message with the same packet ID, I point out that there's an upper limit on the amount of data that should be transmitted before a new authentication key should be arranged... that is assuming that the ID field was of finite size. Rivest mentioned in passing using a 32 bit ID. That's an impressive number of bits to C/W, but certainly not unattainable. -SM2k

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Your courageous stance...
by TruthMongrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I would like to congratulate and thank you for the courageous stance that you have taken by doing your part to help stop the spread of anarchistic and possibly illegal content on the InterNet by denying access to those who use the freedom and rights granted them by the Constitution to abuse those privileges. Your stance is particularly admired by those of us who share your interest in preventing the spread of free access to all types of information, in light of the fact that you have not shied away from persecuting those connected with the Circle of Eunuchs, thus possibly putting yourself, your family and your business in physical danger, as well as virtual danger. Given the current dissension within the ranks of the Cirle of Eunuchs and the Army of Dog, concerning whether their assault on censorship and censors should be consumated in CyberSpace or MeatSpace, there are few who are willing to put themselves in the line of fire to support the same ideals that other great Americans, such as Senator Joe McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover, have championed. Regardless of the possible physical danger you will be subjected to if the proponents of MeatSpace retruibution to censorship supporters win out in the current battle for control of the resources of the Army of Dog, your choice to submit to government oppressors and legal threats is likely the right one, since the government currently has more and better armed thugs than those who oppose them. TruthMonger III "Ain't no safety this side of the grave...never has been...never will be."

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Re:Stan the Human!
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 98-03-24 16:09:52 EST, mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com writes: << >Hey, I requested off this list ages ago. >Why don't you simply pull my >subscription and we'll ALL be happy? :-) >Stan Because we are all laughing at you, you really smart guy. >> Hey, I got my laughs too! Stan

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Kill 'em all...*I'll* sort 'em out...
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

----- Forward from TruthMonger III ----- I would like to congratulate and thank you for the courageous stance that you have taken by doing your part to help stop the spread of anarchistic and possibly illegal content on the InterNet by denying access to those who use the freedom and rights granted them by the Constitution to abuse those privileges. Your stance is particularly admired by those of us who share your interest in preventing the spread of free access to all types of information, in light of the fact that you have not shied away from persecuting those connected with the Circle of Eunuchs, thus possibly putting yourself, your family and your business in physical danger, as well as virtual danger. Given the current dissension within the ranks of the Cirle of Eunuchs and the Army of Dog, concerning whether their assault on censorship and censors should be consumated in CyberSpace or MeatSpace, there are few who are willing to put themselves in the line of fire to support the same ideals that other great Americans, such as Senator Joe McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover, have championed. Regardless of the possible physical danger you will be subjected to if the proponents of MeatSpace retruibution to censorship supporters win out in the current battle for control of the resources of the Army of Dog, your choice to submit to government oppressors and legal threats is likely the right one, since the government currently has more and better armed thugs than those who oppose them. TruthMonger III "Ain't no safety this side of the grave...never has been...never will be." ---- End of Alleged Forwarded Message ----- Despite the fact that the missive you are currently reading is an obvious forgery, I, Timothy C. May <tm(a)dev.null>, would like to exhort all of my fellow victims of forgeries by the DogMeister@Sympatico to form their own Cult of One chapter of the Army of Dog. Unless each and every individual who is concerned with gaining the liberty to exercise the basic rights and freedoms which come from being a unique participant in the universe which has formed them (and which they have had a hand in forming) steps forward to demand the right to exercise and manifest their values and beliefs in MeatSpace, as well as CyberSpace...uuhhh...has anybody seen my shoes? "We have met the future of rEvolution, and it is us." ~ Ogop Due to the heavy investment I have made in MeatSpace weaponry, I will be supporting the factions of the Army of Dog which are promoting a physical war against the enemies of freedom, but I recognize that those whose investment is in newer warfare technologies have an equal right to fight the battle within the slightly more infinite boundaries of Digital Reality. "The screens of freedom must occassionally be refreshed with a GUI- supported blood-color of digital martyrs." ~ AGuyTooLazyToLookUpTheOriginalQuote Despite the concerns of some members of the Cypherpunks Distributed Mailing List about the forged attributions of the DogMeister concerning the beliefs and stances of various individual list members, we all know, deep down inside, that Janet Reno's secret lover, Officer Furhman, is right when he whispers in her ear during their fuckmaking (in a manner that is a felony in the majority of states, which is why they only do it in Federal offices), "The CypherPunks may not be guilty of the crimes that TruthMongrel attributes to them, but they are all guilty of *something*..." Timothy C. May <tm(a)dev.null> "There is something 'Wong' when I have to send 'chop, chop' messages to an increasing number of posters to the Cypherpunks list."

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Re: Kill 'em all...*I'll* sort 'em out...
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 98-03-24 19:48:49 EST, tm(a)dev.null writes: << ----- Forward from TruthMonger III ----- <SNIP!> I would like to congratulate and thank you for the courageous stance that you have taken by doing your part to help stop the spread of anarchistic and possibly illegal content on the InterNet by denying access to those who use the freedom and rights granted them by the Constitution to abuse those privileges. Your stance is particularly admired by those of us who share your interest in preventing the spread of free access to all types of information <SNIP> concerning whether their assault on censorship and censors should be consumated in CyberSpace or MeatSpace, there are few who are willing to put themselves in the line of fire to support the same ideals that other great Americans, such as Senator Joe McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover, have championed. >> Ah yes, fits like a lock and a key. Pro-censorship guys also being pro McCarthy guys! After all, these "Know-nothings" today, are the 'Modern McCarthyites' (see my political page) Stan

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CIA Trained Gorilla Femnists
by TruthMongrer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Male Gorilla, Released to Mate with Females, Drops Dead AP 24-MAR-98 TOKYO (AP) The excitement, or perhaps the pressure, apparently was too much for Sultan. The 28-year-old male gorilla, specially moved to a cage to mate with three females, instead dropped dead. The 400-pound lowland gorilla ran around briefly and played with his new friends Monday, then suddenly collapsed, apparently after suffering a heart attack, said Kunihiko Yasui, head of animal breeding at Kyoto Municipal Zoo. ~~~ Reports from non-mainstream news sources indicate that one of the female gorillas was carrying an umbrella which was nowhere to be found when invesigators searched the cage after the mysterious death of the male gorilla. Gertrude Stein, denying that an elite corps of techno-femnists is involved with providing CIA BlackOps training for female subjects of a digital-implant experiment being conducted by the NSA, merely said, "What is good for the goose is not always necessarily good for the gorilla." Anonymous sources from the CypherPunks Distributed Mailing List indicated that the assassination was coordinated by Blanc Weber, a list member who disguises her hidden agenda of MeatSpace violence by constantly admonishing list members for expressing the results of the excessive male hormones surging through their potential-rapist bodies. The sources cited Weber's previous support of Zsa-Zsa Grubor as proof of her involvement with radical femnist movements whose goals are secretly financed by Wonder Bra, Wonder Woman, and Wonder Bread. Mainstream media sources continue to claim that this post is nothing more than the psychotic babblings of a FrostBack To Be Named Later. However, this view is obvious in error, or an intelligent person such as yourself would not stil be reading this post, eh? TruthFemnist, "And, after my operation, I will learn to spell 'feminist' correctly."

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Re: Welcome to cypherpunks-unedited
by StanSquncr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 98-03-24 19:18:48 EST, Majordomo(a)toad.com writes: << Cypherpunks assume privacy is a good thing and wish there were more of it. Cypherpunks acknowledge that those who want privacy must create it for themselves and not expect governments, corporations, or other large, faceless organizations to grant them privacy out of beneficence. Cypherpunks know that people have been creating their own privacy for centuries with whispers, envelopes, closed doors, and couriers. Cypherpunks do not seek to prevent other people from speaking about their experiences or their opinions. >> I agree with all that. << ... Cypherpunks love to practice. They love to play with public key cryptography. ... >> But when it's used as simply a means of identifying yourself on a public list, is that really privacy protection? Seems like a mis-use of the technology to me. Stan

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