December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Vulis again
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Tim C. May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is > completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is > cross-ruminated. > > | | > | O | Tim C. May > (--|--) > | > / \ Talk about reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated... Vulis must be getting old. ---guy So, die, already.

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Re: The Digital Society Group
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From jalonz(a)openworld.com Thu Jan 8 02:19:34 1998 > Received: from openworld.com (www.openworld.com [205.157.133.52]) > by mail1.panix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/PanixM1.3) with SMTP id CAA24973 > for <guy(a)panix.com>; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:19:34 -0500 (EST) > From: jalonz(a)openworld.com > Received: by openworld.com(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) id 85256586.00285987 ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:20:43 -0500 > X-Lotus-FromDomain: OPENWORLD.COM > To: Information Security <guy(a)panix.com>, cyberpunks(a)toad.net Cyberpunks? You really know how to score points! > Message-ID: <85256586.00280ED7.00(a)openworld.com> > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:22:05 -0500 > Subject: Re: The Digital Society Group > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Status: R > > > ># SAN DIEGO DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. > ># > ># Computer Security - Provide computer security assistance in criminal > ># investigations. Tasks include data decryption, recovering erased > data, > ># password retrieval, data line monitoring, and protected system entry. > > > >Isn't that last item special? > > > >---guy > > > > And a possible reason for heading the other way. > > guy, > > tough noogies > > deal with it... > > Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could > actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually > quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals) > and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of. > > :) > jqz Just curious what your reaction would be to that ambiguous statement. Having done DA support, I expect you are quite serious about heading the other way to give users security and anonymity. How do you justify both, since the "bad guys" would benefit? ---- It's the other stuff: that you flit around (people posting "Where are you Jalon Q. Zimmerman?"), that The Digital Society doesn't have its own domain, but is hosted by some other company called "OpenWorld", which has AOL contact addresses... Who is Mark Frazier, who owns OpenWorld, how long has it been in business, what is your relationship to them, what is your job description? Is OpenWorld another startup that is going to go <poof>? The OpenWorld pages read like any other company BS, and you've given yourself the lofty title "Director". Yeah, and we have Sir Timothy May, Dr. Dim Vulvis, etc. You're about 26, and full of hot air. ---guy You mean well. ;-)

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality
by David Miller 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's > Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when > he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he > needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) You may have seen the same TV show I saw on him. I really enjoyed it. Is there any evidence that he got (ahem) outside funding for his project? In the back of my paranoid mind, I wondered that since he was dealing with elliptic curves and modular arithmetic if... I mean, how did he pay his mortgage? The show implied that he was not doing any real teaching most of that time, and if no one at the school knew of his work, then where was the money coming from? --David Miller

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:26 PM -0800 1/8/98, David Miller wrote: >Tim May wrote: > >> Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's >> Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when >> he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he >> needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) > >You may have seen the same TV show I saw on him. I really enjoyed it. No, I didn't get my information from television. I presume you mean the "Nova" show some months back. >Is there any evidence that he got (ahem) outside funding for his project? >In the back of my paranoid mind, I wondered that since he was dealing with >elliptic curves and modular arithmetic if... I mean, how did he pay his >mortgage? The show implied that he was not doing any real teaching most >of that time, and if no one at the school knew of his work, then where was >the money coming from? Why don't you use the Web and report what you find? I'm not inclined to go out and do this research to answer your questions. (I just found 800 hits on his name, including biographical material.) If, by the way, you are surmising that he may've received NSA funding, this seems dubious. Just because "elliptic functions" are involved.... In any case, his salary was paid by Princeton for most or all of those years. As he had no equipment to buy, no students to support...his costs were low. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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by 30469616＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Austin Cypherpunks - Physical Meeting - Sat. Jan. 17, 1998
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, The Austin Cypherpunks will be holding a physical meeting on Saturday, January 17th, 1998. It will be from 6-7pm at Flipnotics on Barton Springs Rd. The meeting is open to all. If you would like directions please send a note to austin-cpunks(a)ssz.com. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Fast Elliptic Curve Math
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

7 January 1998, Nikkei Industrial Daily Toshiba Unveils Fast Formula For Elliptic-Curve Cryptography Tokyo -- Toshiba Corp. has developed an arithmetic formula which it claims offers the world's fastest processes of elliptic-curve cryptography. The formula cuts processing time by almost half from current methods used in elliptic-curve systems. Toshiba's formula is based on the Montgomery arithmetic system, a special method of calculation which requires no division. Elliptic-curve cryptography is considerably faster than the Rivest Shamir Adleman (RSA) system currently in common use. Toshiba hopes to apply the system in a wide range of fields, including corporate information systems and electronic commerce. ----- Is there other information on this?

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"Trade a Tape, Go to Jail?" from Wired News
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:46:37 -0500 From: Steve Silberman <digaman(a)wired.com> To: declan(a)well.com Subject: Re: FC: How long you'll be in jail for copyright violations Declan: An interesting corrollary to the Netly story - I wrote an article for Wired News today that might be of interest to anyone who trades tapes on the Net, especially those who post their "lists" to the Web and accept cash for trades - even when there is no profit involved. "Trade a Tape, Go to Jail?" http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/9532.html Steve ********************************** Steve Silberman Senior Culture Writer WIRED News http://www.wired.com/ ***********************************

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Re: Jalon'sWorld and Evil Money Laundering
by jalonz＠openworld.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could >>actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually >>quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals) >>and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of. >And what is morally wrong with "money laundering"? Seems to me a person's >money is his to do with it as he pleases...it's only governments that call >some actions "money laundering." Just as they call some speech "information >laundering." I personally dont see money laundering as a "bad" thing, but fraud definitely is. What you do with your money is your business as long as you dont hurt someone else. This was not the case. (IMHO) >And do you think your "Digital Society" notion (which we've seen many times >before, usually involving floating, offshore entities) will somehow not >attract or involve "Chinese mafia money launderers"? I'm sure it will. >Do you plan to implement key escrow so you can monitor what your residents >are doing with each other? Do you plan to become a floating police state so >as to stop this evil "money laundering"? Hell no, I personally do not think it would not be practical, moral or cost-effective to use key-escrow methods. Key escrow empowers governments, not individuals - at the cost of the individuals right to privacy. >I don't think you've quite grasped the significance of strong crypto and >cyberspace. has anyone? >(For starters, an intentional community in cyberspace, situated in no >particular country, and backed by strong crypto, digital escrow systems >(real escrow, of course), reputation systems, etc. is a far better place to >do business of certain sorts than is "Jalon'sWorld.") Then why doesn't someone do it? Like I said we have to start somewhere. >I suspect that Guy is right, that your "Digital Society" shtick is just the >latest in your long series of "new businesses" started in many places in >the country. Well it definitely is the latest and it definitely is one of many, so your suspicions are correct. BTW, The Digital Society Group has been selected to deploy the entire Digital Society Package within the new Agulhas Bay Free Zone in the People's Democratic Republic of Sao Tome and Principe. I'd advise a look at the new content on the Digital Society website. :) Jalon --------------------------------------------------------------- Jalon Q. Zimmerman, Director The Digital Society Group A division of Openworld, Inc. http://www.openworld.com/ jalonz(a)openworld.com --------------------------------------------------------------- The government is not your mommy. ---------------------------------------------------------------

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Schneier's metrocard cracked
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I heard on the radio that the security scheme used in New York City metrocards (designed with much input frm Bruce Schneier) has been cracked and that the "hackers" can now add fare to the cards. Does anyone know any details? What encryption did Schneier use? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Syn-l: Re: White House Or Red Roof Inn? (fwd)
by Michael Stutz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[This message originally appeared on the synergetics-l at <http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/Synergetics-L/synl.html>, a list for the discussion of R. Buckminster Fuller's magnum opus.] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:38:22 GMT From: Kirby Urner <pdx4d(a)teleport.com> Reply-To: synergetics-l(a)teleport.com To: synergetics-l(a)teleport.com Subject: Syn-l: Re: White House Or Red Roof Inn? Newsgroups: alt.politics.org.fbi,alt.politics.org.cia softwar(a)us.net (softwar(a)us.net) wrote: >friends inside the White House. Barth claimed the British were >already selling encrypted radios to China and his new boss, >Motorola, deserved a "level playing field". In fact, according >to Barth, the National Security Agency (NSA) agreed with >Motorola's request for export. > I want to be clear on your position: you are apparently against administration efforts to frustrate domestic access to strong encryption. This makes sense, since that would just put the domestic population behind the rest of the world, which has access to same through other channels. But are you saying companies like Motorola should not sell encrypted radio or television to clients not classified as "domestic"? Or is it just some clients (e.g. the Chinese) but not others that you're saying Motorola should turn away. Sounds to me like you're picking on the Chinese because they're an easy target, after all the brouhaha about where the DNC has been getting its money (are you so sure the British have never helped put their preferred candidate in power through banking channels? Is this really a new game? I think not -- USAers just aren't used to having the Asians playing it, but in retrospect you have to wonder what took them so long). My view is that we're fast coming to (already well passed?) the point where we're going to have to regard lethal-against -humans applications of high technology as uniformly negative wherever they occur -- exceptions will be few and far between. Big money is seeing a secure path into the future, but not if high explosives are factored in as wild cards -- like you're trying to plan the motherboard of a computer and some politician comes in and says "by the way, every now and then we plan to blow a whole section of circuitry sky high, maybe explode a chip or two -- think you can handle that?" The Intel engineers I know would all shake their heads and think this guy must be missing more than a few screws. Computers need it cold. The temperature needs to keep dropping, down, down, down -- to way below what jingoists and knee-jerk patriots of all stripes and coloration find comfortable, but which delicate high technology absolutely must have to operate with any integrity. Motherboard Earth is not some Hollywood movie set, where misguided Rambos can run amuk at will. Save that stuff for the video parlor or the schoolyard, where it's safe to indulge in less than grown-up behavior. If the Qualcomm kid was even inadvertently feeding data to GIS systems bound for the "brains" of Tomahawk cruise missles aimed at "external" (non-domestic) targets in another hemisphere, then Qualcomm is liable to go down in history as a felonious player, a villain. One just can't afford to misrepresent one's true intentions so blatantly and expect to survive as trusted player. Using GIS and GPS to make flying safer is a positive civilian use of the technology, but if those planes are carrying weapons of mass destruction (armed and dangerous), then we're certainly going to follow the chain of command right to the top and find out exactly what logic is driving this design decision -- like why are you wearing a gun coming into a crowded civilian restaurant Mr. CEO President? People who want to flaunt terrifying weaponry had better come clean under interrogation, or own up to a "terrorist" charge -- applied without regard for skin color, creed, or place of origin. The econosphere has become very sophisticated and techno- logical, all the more delicate and sensitive as a result of the human presence. We could have a pretty good world here in fact, if we're willing to treat it with the respect owing any high precision instrument. People who plan to simply barrel ahead with lethal weapons planning, come what may, need to provide some iron clad logic for this course or their trackers and backers simply will kiss them good buy (and good riddance) for failing to offer any credible scenarios worth funding. Big ticket weaponry just doesn't have that same sex appeal anymore, has "boondoggle" written on it even before they get off the drawing board. Like "who's gonna pay for this shit?" is the first question smart money asks. Best to not hide behind "national security" shields as in the past at this point, is what I advise the corporate R&D divisioins -- because now you know that security chiefs don't necessarily buy the company hype anymore. You better have it in writing where you got your orders, if you want to plead "not guilty" and pass the buck on up the line. So if you want to play profitable commerical games in the civilian sector, don't be so sure your weaponry subsidiaries will escape scrutiny, and don't count on preferential enforcement of statutes to protect your namebrand from being utterly trashed if you turn out to be defrauding the very people you make such a noise about wanting to protect. The people are waking up, some of them, and are finding out they don't like what's been taking place in their name. Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] ---------------------------------------------------------

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 16:42:43 -0800 > From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri(a)netcom.com> > every respondent to my post has missed the key points. Not quite. Of course I don't agree with all of them either. There are two rules you should consider: - It's ok to have an open mind, just don't let it slosh out on the ground. - Understanding a view is not equivalent to supporting a view. You might also want to consider that two opposing views might very well *both* be right...it depends on where you sit on the fence as to what the tree looks like. > >Scientists even in schools and foundations are often secretive, too. > > > >The notion that "science" is about blabbing one's latest discoveries or > >theories is overly simplistic. Many scholars and scientists choose not to > >publicize their work for years, or decades, or, even, never. > > if so, they are not SCIENTISTS. a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing > results. science cannot advance without it. name me one scientist > who did not publish an important result, or is considered a good > scientists for doing so! I must agree here. If a technologist (ie one who studies science for profit, hence creating a technology) chooses not to publish their results that is fine. However, a scientist is one who studies nature and its interactions, profit is not and should not be a motive. Simplistic or not; in fact some things are better understood when simplified (ala the scientific principle). A scientist has an obligation to discuss and publish their results for other scientists (and even technologist) when they are reasonably sure their results will stand up to indipendant verification (a critical issue in science, not in technology however). Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not* curiosity. > >Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's > >Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when > >he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he > >needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) > > but he PUBLISHED his results, he gave a LECTURE on his findings. I am > not saying that secrecy and science are mutually exclusive in this way. > secrecy is a useful tool, I am not in general against secrecy. but > secrecy can be ABUSED, and our government is ABUSING it. Further, the *reason* he was so secretive was because of the history of failed attempts and early 'proofs' that later failed. He was motivated by getting it right and ruining his reputation; not because he thought proving Fermat's Last Theorem would provide him riches and laurels for the remainder of his mortal coil. > have you > been following that Clinton was just fined $286,00 for lying to > a judge? Which means, per the Constitution, that he should be removed from office. He broke a public trust and that means he looses any public station he currently has and is barred from future office. > I could give > >dozens of examples of where the open literature either did not exist or was > >not used...and science still advanced. Of course, this is a specious argument. If it was already in the literature it wouldn't be science advancing (learning something that wasn't known before). The whole point to science is to understand and explain what we see and don't see that creates the cosmos we inhabit. Now if your point is that Intel taking some trade secret only they are aware of and using this to make quicker chips is science then you don't know a damn thing about science. > but science eventually published the results. It is *required* for doing 'science', it isn't for doing 'technology'. As a matter of fact a little perusal of history demonstrates that science requires open and unhindered dialog while technology requires closed channels of communcication and mechanisms of control. A perfect current example is the move to cloan humans. The guy, Creed?, is right "you can't stop science"; you can however stop technology and businesses do every day. Until that oocyte goes viable it's science, from that point on it's technology. > human endeavor. how can you argue with something so obvious? You don't know Timmy very well do you... > all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an > essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my > big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. Actualy your mistake is assuming that there is *one* morality. Don't fret though. Just about everyone wants to jam everyone else into their nice little easily understood molds. It makes it much easier to justify their actions to themselves and potentialy to others if they get them to swallow even once. > of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder > Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. Reasonable men don't change the world. If we aren't motivated by our ethics and belief that our actions can change the world into the way it 'should be' then what is the motive? Money? Even that is a veiled mechanism to make the world the way we think it should be (ie we have more money or social station than currently endowed with). Changing the world is what *makes* life worth living. The question *is* why do you want to change the world and *who* gets to profit by it? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Schneier's metrocard cracked
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr. Dim wrote: > > I heard on the radio that the security scheme used in New York City metrocards > (designed with much input frm Bruce Schneier) has been cracked and that the > "hackers" can now add fare to the cards. > > Does anyone know any details? What encryption did Schneier use? It sounds like a procedural thing. Something like there was a way to swipe cards and have the system wrongly think it updated the card. The city announced that every cardreader in the system is going to be recalibrated, and this will cause problems for "a few" existing cardholders. ---guy

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:26:11 -0800 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > "Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results. > Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles. True, Gauss didn't publish many of his results and he wasn't famed for that either. He *was* famed because he *did* publish some of his works. In fact, if you study Gauss you find a insecure introvert who in general hated his competition. He lied in his correspondance about work he supposedly did (see his relations with Bolyai who was a friend of his from school - "Non-euclidean Geometry" by Roberto Bonola; Dover ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). Yes, Gauss was respected for his math, he was hated for his humanity, or lack thereof. If anything Gauss' bahaviour held back science because of his self-interest. Fermat in general published most of his work, however, much of it was lost including his proof. His statement was that it was too long to be written in the margin of the book, not that he didn't write it down. The implication being that he *had* written it down and it got misplaced or lost it. Both of these folks are *very* poor examples of your point. > Not to mention Darwin, who sat on his results for almost 20 years, and only > issued a paper and his famed book because he learned another naturalist was > about to announce similar conclusions. Darwin set on his results because he was aware of the results of his work and the consequence to his career. He felt he needed more stature and as a consequence more security before publishing. He also understood he was right and that the first to publish would go down in history and the second would be an also ran. If you study the others alive at the time there were many people who had suggested similar theories. His own uncle had written similar material several decades before Darwin ever set foot on the Beagle. Darwin didn't invent evolution, he did refine it. Further, Darwin *isn't* know in the scientific community for his two books intended for lay readers. He *is* known for his seminal study of finches and mollusks, both quite clearly demonstrate his beliefs and theories and both had a much bigger impact on the scientific acceptance of evolution than 'Species' ever hoped to have. You are confusing the acceptance by the lay public as equivalent to scientific acceptance. You really should read Mayr. Again, a bad example. > Publication and, more importantly, discussion and challenge, is often very > important to the advancement of science. But is some cast in stone > requirement? Of course not. Actualy the open discussion of hypothesis and the testing thereof in open and unbiased comparison by indipendant researchers *is* most certainly a requirement in science - your protest not withstanding. > Building an artifact which embodies the science, for example. Exploding an > atom bomb was pretty clearly a demonstration that the science done was > correct, regardless of whether there was "open literature" or not. Don't confuse the science of atomic physics with the engineering of building a bomb. They are not the same thing. The majority of the work done to succesfuly understand an atomic bomb was known world wide in the 1920's and early '30's. The engineering to do it along with the money and project management skills motivated by the political where with all to actualy do it didn't. You are confusing affect and effect. > This is just too easy, refuting Detweiler's points. So I'll stop here. Thanks. My smashed finger is starting to hurt and your points are pretty easy to refute as well. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 19:05:21 -0800 > From: David Honig <honig(a)otc.net> > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > chooses. The universe owes you nothing. That depends on your personal philosophy, or are you claiming to have found "The Way"? (that's rhetorical, please don't respond since the consequencial discussion leads nowhere that we aren't already) > Your goals and alliances are yours to choose. You got to choose your family and what country you were born in and how much money you have? Cool, you should consider yourself truly blessed, in the several 10's of thousands of years of humanity you are the first so gifted. > Everyone picks what they are comfortable with, and it ain't your business > what they decide. No one is > obligated to agree with you. And everyone is > obligated to let you alone, unless you violate their > right to be left alone. But you know this. No, everyone doesn't pick what they are comfortable with. Only somebody that takes their station in life with its consimmitent spoils as a given would say something this idiotic. Nobody is obliged to let you alone unless they decide to of their own volition. It only takes one to make war (the old saying is wrong) it takes two to make peace. And man being what he is wants his own way even at the expense of somebody elses way. Such is the trials and tribulations of social animals. > On secrecy, Saint Chas. Darwin sat on evolution forever, until he reviewed > a paper that was going to scoop him, you know. Oh god, somebody else who hasn't studied Darwin or Meyr.... I covered the rebuttal to this commen folk tale in a reply to Timmy. Look for it... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 1/8/98 3:26 PM, Robert A. Costner (pooh(a)efga.org) passed this wisdom: >At 10:45 AM 1/8/98 -0800, David Miller wrote: >>> An interesting feature of the digital postmark is that the USPS was making >>> the claim that if you receive an email that the USPS send to you that was >>> not meant for you, then you have committed a federal crime when you read >it. >> >>I'm not so sure about this, Robert. I've heard the rumor that it is a crime, >>but I have also heard that if something is delivered to your box, it is yours >>and you are not required to send it back unopened if it is not addressed to >>you. I tend to believe the latter, as it is the side of the story shared by >>USPS employees. > >I wasn't commenting on the legality, but on the fact that the USPS web page >was making the claim that it was a crime. Apparently whoever wrote the >legal disclaimer felt that email could be misdelivered in the same fashion >in which postal mail could be misdelivered and was making this claim. I >found the claim to be nutty and made me think they didn't know what they >were doing. Maybe they are confusing an electronic mailbox with a snailmail box ... the USPS has always contended that they (the USPS) "own" your mailbox and use that criterion to prosecute people who drive around putting things like circulars etc in mailboxes. Maybe they we on a role thinking that if they got into the e-mail business they would 'own' that piece of your hard drive so to speak. Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> The Windows PC Versus Macintosh Buying Decision: "If you want to encourage your kids to color outside the lines, think creatively and zig when the other kids zag, get the Mac. On the other hand, if you want to teach your kid that life if full of frustration and that anything worth getting takes plenty of patience and hard work, a Windows machine should do quite nicely." - David Plotnikoff in the San Jose Mercury News

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:41:47 -0800 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) > is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to > favor this usage. We're awful testy tonite aren't we...believe me junior, if I want to jump in your shit I'll do it direct first person and in your face. Since it seems to have got stuck in your craw, I apologize for not asking you the correct usage of your name prior to typing it into my reply. In the future I think I'll use 'that crazy indipendently wealthy ex-Intel technologist and self-important testy gun nut that lives in California who almost got to see John Denvers plane crash'; is *that* ok with you? (not really, I think my fingers would cramp) > Jeez, and I don't even recall insulting Choate. Perhaps he got his nose out > of joint when I challenged his "all snipers use .223" piece of > misinformation. Unfortunately, for you, I never made that claim (if anything you did regarding some comments I made about some police snipers liking .308's) and therefore you didn't get to refute it. Whatever strategy you're on regarding drugs and alcohol, reverse it; the dementia are back. > Back in my killfile he goes. Incredible that he is even connected with one > of the Cypherpunks distribution points. Been there before, I won't loose any sleep that is for shure. > BTW, nowhere in my piece did I refer to myself as a "scientist." I spoke of > Wiles, and then of Gauss, Fermat, and Darwin. Certainly not directly, but considering your background and past comments it is an assumption that is justified. You most certainly feel qualified to discuss the distinctions and consequences thereof. Me, I consider myself a scientist and have since I was about 6 years old. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

NuriLogical is anguished that some people are immoral: >all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an >essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my >big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. >as EH once said, normative philosophies are a waste of time. what >room does the world have for someone who thinks only in terms >of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder >Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. ................................................................. As your hero and biggest fan, EH, said: cypherpunks do not wait for other people to become moral; cypherpunks create their own reality. (or something to that effect) How can we know which flaw (for there are many possible) causes a person - scientific or otherwise - to behave like a coward and give up their integrity for the sake of safety or money or an undeserved reputation? How can we know how someone could keep a contradiction in their head, maintaining a position of virtue in the commuity while yet depending on the slavery of those whose benefit they purport to be working for? I guess you will tell us this in your forthcoming article. (Perry, where are you when we need you? :>) just kidding!!) BTW, you should consider that when Einstein proposed the creation of a bomb, it was within the context of a war being advanced globally by an evil madman who was gathering every resource to subdue and decimate everything in his way, and that the rest of the world was desperate for a solution. Also you should remember that some brilliant people, like Newton, who was a shy man and didn't necessarily see himself as others did/do, did not care if anyone else saw the results of his work. Once he had solved the problems in his own mind, he was not exceptionally concerned that others were also struggling with the same, nor whether "the community" needed the answer. He was pursuing knowledge for reasons of his own. .. Blanc

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Accounts payable
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C[rook] May is just a poor excuse for an unschooled, retarded thug. (_) _____ (_) /O O\ Timmy C[rook] May ! I ! ! \___/ ! \_____/

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Darwin's preface (a short history of evolution) [fwd]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Below is the 3rd preface to Darwin's 'Species', in it he clearly gives credit to Wallace as a co-discover of evolutionary theory. Even to the point of co-presenting the work to the Linnean Society on July 1, 1858. Oh, Erazmus Darwin was Charles' grandfather not uncle. Sorry for any confusion. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:46:47 -0600 > X-within-URL: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/origin/preface.html > The Origin of Species > Preface to the Third Edition > by Charles Darwin > > I will here give a brief sketch of the progress of opinion on the > Origin of Species. Until recently the great majority of naturalists > believed that species were immutable productions, and had been > separately created. This view has been ably maintained by many > authors. Some few naturalists, on the other hand, have believed that > species undergo modification, and that the existing forms of life are > the descendants by true generation of pre-existing forms. Passing over > allusions to the subject in the classical writers,(1) the first author > who in modern times has treated it in a scientific spirit was Buffon. > But as his opinions fluctuated greatly at different periods, and as he > does not enter on the causes or means of the transformation of > species, I need not here enter on details. > > Lamarck was the first man whose conclusions on the subject excited > much attention. This justly-celebrated naturalist first published his > views in 1801; he much enlarged them in 1809 in his "Philosophie > Zoologique,' and subsequently, in 1815, in the Introduction to his > "Hist. Nat. des Animaux sans Vertébres.' In these works he upholds the > doctrine that species, including man, are descended from other > species. He first did the eminent service of arousing attention to the > probability of all change in the organic, as well as in the inorganic > world, being the result of law, and not of miraculous interposition. > Lamarck seems to have been chiefly led to his conclusion on the > gradual change of species, by the difficulty of distinguishing species > and varieties, by the almost perfect gradation of forms in certain > groups, and by the analogy of domestic productions. With respect to > the means of modification, he attributed something to the direct > action of the physical conditions of life, something to the crossing > of already existing forms, and much to use and disuse, that is, to the > effects of habit. To this latter agency he seemed to attribute all the > beautiful adaptations in nature; -- such as the long neck of the > giraffe for browsing on the branches of trees. But he likewise > believed in a law of progressive development; and as all the forms of > life thus tend to progress, in order to account for the existence at > the present day of simple productions, he maintains that such forms > are now spontaneously generated.(2) > > Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, as is stated in his 'Life,' written by his > son, suspected, as early as 1795, that what we call species are > various degenerations of the same type. It was not until 1828 that he > published his conviction that the same forms have not been perpetuated > since the origin of all things. Geoffroy seems to have relied chiefly > on the conditions of life, or the 'monde ambiant' as the cause of > change. He was cautious in drawing conclusions, and did not believe > that existing species are now undergoing modification; and, as his son > adds, "C'est donc un problème à réserver entièrement à l'avenir, > supposé meme que l'avenir doive avoir prise sur lui.' > > In 1813, Dr W. C. Wells read before the Royal Society 'An Account of a > White female, part of whose skin resembled that of a Negro'; but his > paper was not published until his famous 'Two Essays upon Dew and > Single Vision' appeared in 1818. In this paper he distinctly > recognises the principle of natural selection, and this is the first > recognition which has been indicated; but he applies it only to the > races of man, and to certain characters alone. After remarking that > negroes and mulattoes enjoy an immunity from certain tropical > diseases, he observes, firstly, that all animals tend to vary in some > degree, and, secondly, that agriculturists improve their domesticated > animals by selection; and then, he adds, but what is done in this > latter case 'by art, seems to be done with equal efficacy, though more > slowly, by nature, in the formation of varieties of mankind, fitted > for the country which they inhabit. Of the accidental varieties of > man, which would occur among the first few and scattered inhabitants > of the middle regions of Africa, some one would be better fitted than > the others to bear the diseases of the country. This race would > consequently multiply, while the others would decrease; not only from > their inability to sustain the attacks of disease, but from their > incapacity of contending with their more vigorous neighbours. The > colour of this vigorous race I take for granted, from what has been > already said, would be dark. But the same disposition to form > varieties still existing, a darker and a darker race would in the > course of time occur: and as the darkest would be the best fitted for > the climate, this would at length become the most prevalent; if not > the only race, in the particular country in which it had originated.' > He then extends these same views to the white inhabitants of colder > climates. I am indebted to Mr Rowley, of the United States, for having > called my attention, through Mr Brace, to the above passage in Dr > Wells' work. > > The Hon. and Rev. W. Herbert, afterwards Dean of Manchester, in the > fourth volume of the 'Horticultural Transactions,' 1822, and in his > work on the 'Amaryllidaceae' (1837, pp. 19, 339), declares that > 'horticultural experiments have established, beyond the possibility of > refutation, that botanical species are only a higher and more > permanent class of varieties.' He extends the same view to animals. > The Dean believes that single species of each genus were created in an > originally highly plastic condition, and that these have produced, > chiefly by intercrossing, but likewise by variation, all our existing > species. > > In 1826 Professor Grant, in the concluding paragraph in his well-known > paper ('Edinburgh philosophical journal,' vol. xiv. p. 283) on the > Spongilla, clearly declares his belief that species are descended from > other species, and that they become improved in the course of > modification. This same view was given in his 55th Lecture, published > in the 'Lancet' in 1834. > > In 1831 Mr Patrick Matthew published his work on 'Naval Timber and > Arboriculture,' in which he gives precisely the same view on the > origin of species as that (presently to be alluded to) propounded by > Mr Wallace and myself in the 'Linnean journal,' and as that enlarged > in the present volume. Unfortunately the view was given by Mr Matthew > very briefly in scattered passages in an Appendix to a work on a > different subject, so that it remained unnoticed until Mr Matthew > himself drew attention to it in the 'Gardener's Chronicle,' on April > 7th, 1860. The differences of Mr Matthew's view from mine are not of > much importance; he seems to consider that the world was nearly > depopulated at successive periods, and then re-stocked; and he gives > as an alternative, that new forms may be generated ' without the > presence of any mould or germ of former aggregates.' I am not sure > that I understand some passages; but it seems that he attributes much > influence to the direct action of the conditions of life. He clearly > saw, however, the full force of the principle of natural selection. > > The celebrated geologist and naturalist, Von Buch, in his excellent > 'Description physique des Isles Canaries' (1836, p. 147), clearly > expresses his belief that varieties slowly become changed into > permanent species, which are no longer capable of intercrossing. > > Rafinesque, in his 'New Flora of North America,' published in 1836, > wrote (p. 6) as follows:- 'All species might have been varieties once, > and many varieties are gradually becoming species by assuming constant > and peculiar characters'; but farther on (p. 18) he adds, 'except the > original types or ancestors of the genus.' > > In 1843-44 Professor Haldeman ('Boston journal of Nat. Hist. U. > States, vol. iv. p. 468) has ably given the arguments for and against > the hypothesis of the development and modification of species: he > seems to lean towards the side of change. > > The 'Vestiges of Creation' appeared in 1844. In the tenth and much > improved edition (1853) the anonymous author says (p. 155):- 'The > proposition determined on after much consideration is, that the > several series of animated beings, from the simplest and oldest up to > the highest and most recent, are, under the providence of God, the > results, first, of an impulse which has been imparted to the forms of > life, advancing them, in definite times, by generation, through grades > of organisation terminating in the highest dicotyledons- and > vertebrata, these grades being few in number, and generally marked by > intervals of organic character, which we find to be a practical > difficulty in ascertaining affinities; second, of another impulse > connected with the vital forces, tending, in the course of > generations, to modify organic structures in accordance with external > circumstances, as food, the nature of the habitat, and the meteoric > agencies, these being the ''adaptations'' of the natural theologian.' > The author apparently believes that organisation progresses by sudden > leaps, but that the effects produced by the conditions of life are > gradual. He argues with much force on general grounds that species are > not immutable productions. But I cannot see how the two supposed > 'impulses' account in a scientific sense for the numerous and > beautiful co-adaptations which we see throughout nature; I cannot see > that we thus gain any insight how, for instance, a woodpecker has > become adapted to its peculiar habits of Life. The work, from its > powerful and brilliant style, though displaying in the earlier > editions little accurate knowledge and a great want of scientific > caution, immediately had a very wide circulation. In my opinion it has > done excellent service in this country in calling attention to the > subject, in removing prejudice, and in thus preparing the ground for > the reception of analogous views. > > In 1846 the veteran geologist N. J. d'Omalius d'Halloy published in an > excellent though short paper ("Bulletins de l'Acad. Roy Bruxelles,' > tom. xiii. p. 581) his opinion that it is more probable that new > species have been produced by descent with modification than that they > have been separately created: the author first promulgated this > opinion in 1831. > > Professor Owen, in 1849 ('Nature of Limbs,' p. 86), wrote as follows:- > "The archetypal idea was manifested in the flesh under diverse such > modifications, upon this planet, long prior to the existence of those > animal species that actually exemplify it. To what natural laws or > secondary causes the orderly succession and progression of such > organic phenomena may have been committed, we, as yet, are ignorant.' > In his Address to the British Association, in 1858, he speaks (p. li.) > of "the axiom of the continuous operation of creative power, or of the > ordained becoming of living things.' Farther on (p. xc.), after > referring to geographical distribution, he adds, 'These phenomena > shake our confidence in the conclusion that the Apteryx of New Zealand > and the Red Grouse of England were distinct creations in and for those > islands respectively. Always, also, it may be well to bear in mind > that by the word ''creation'' the zoologist means '"a process he knows > not what.'' He amplifies this idea by adding that when such cases as > that of the Red Grouse are enumerated by the zoologists as evidence of > distinct creation of the bird in and for such islands, he chiefly > expresses that he knows not how the Red Grouse came to be there, and > there exclusively; signifying also, by this mode of expressing such > ignorance, his belief that both the bird and the islands owed their > origin to a great first Creative Cause.' If we interpret these > sentences given in the same Address, one by the other, it appears that > this eminent philosopher felt in 1858 his confidence shaken that the > Apteryx and the Red Grouse first appeared in their respective homes, > 'he knew not how,' or by some process 'he knew not what.' > > This Address was delivered after the papers by Mr Wallace and myself > on the Origin of Species, presently to be referred to, had been read > before the Linnean Society. When the first edition of this work was > published, I was so completely deceived, as were many others, by such > expressions as 'the continuous operation of creative power,' that I > included Professor Owen with other palaeontologists as being firmly > convinced of the immutability of species; but it appears ('Anat. of > Vertebrates,' vol. iii. p. 796) that this was on my part a > preposterous error. In the last edition of this work I inferred, and > the inference still seems to me perfectly just, from a passage > beginning with the words 'no doubt the type-form,' &c. (Ibid. vol. i. > p. xxxv.), that Professor Owen admitted that natural selection may > have done something in the formation of a new species; but this it > appears (Ibid. vol. nl. p. 798) is inaccurate and without evidence. I > also gave some extracts from a correspondence between Professor Owen > and the Editor of the 'London Review,' from which it appeared manifest > to the Editor as well as to myself, that Professor Owen claimed to > have promulgated the theory of natural selection before I had done so; > and I expressed my surprise and satisfaction at this announcement; but > as far as it is possible to understand certain recently published > passages (Ibid. vol. iii. p. 798) I have either partially or wholly > again fallen into error. It is consolatory to me that others find > Professor Owen's controversial writings as difficult to understand and > to reconcile with each other, as I do. As far as the mere enunciation > of the principle of natural selection is concerned, it is quite > immaterial whether or not Professor Owen preceded me, for both of us, > as shown in this historical sketch, were long ago preceded by Dr Wells > and Mr Matthews. > > M. Isidore Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, in his lectures delivered in 1850 > (of which a Résumé appeared in the 'Revue et Nag. de Zoolog.,' Jan. > 1851), briefly gives his reason for believing that specific characters > "sont fixés, pour chaque espèce, tant qu'elle se perpétue au milieu > des mèmes circonstances: ils se modifient, si les circonstances > ambiantes viennent à changer.' 'En résumé, l'observation des animaux > sauvages démontre déjà la variabilité limité des espèces. Les > expériences sur les animaux sauvages devenus domestiques, et sur les > animaux domestiques redevenus sauvages, la démontrent plus clairement > encore. Ces memes expériences prouvent, de plus, que les différences > produites peuvent etre de valeur générique.' In his 'Hist. Nat. > Généralé (tom. ii. p. 430, 1859) he amplifies analogous conclusions. > > From a circular lately issued it appears that Dr Freke, in 1851 > ("Dublin Medical Press,' p. 322), propounded the doctrine that all > organic beings have descended from one primordial form. His grounds of > belief and treatment of the subject are wholly different from mine; > but as Dr Freke has now (1861) published his Essay on the 'Origin of > Species by means of Organic Affinity,' the difficult attempt to give > any idea of his views would be superfluous on my part. > > Mr Herbert Spencer, in an Essay (originally published in the 'Leader,' > March, 1852, and republished in his 'Essays,' in 1858), has contrasted > the theories of the Creation and the Development of organic beings > with remarkable skill and force. He argues from the analogy of > domestic productions, from the changes which the embryos of many > species undergo, from the difficulty of distinguishing species and > varieties, and from the principle of general gradation, that species > have been modified; and he attributes the modification to the change > of circumstances. The author (1855) has also treated psychology on the > principle of the necessary acquirement of each mental power and > capacity by gradation. > > In 1852 M. Naudin, a distinguished botanist, expressly stated, in an > admirable paper on the Origin of Species ('Revue Horticole, p. 102; > since partly republished in the 'Nouvelles Archives du Muséum,' tom. > i. p. 171), his belief that species are formed in an analogous manner > as varieties are under cultivation; and the latter process he > attributes to man's power of selection. But he does not show how > selection acts under nature. He believes, like Dean Herbert, that > species, when nascent, were more plastic than at present. He lays > weight on what he calls the principle of finality, 'puissance > mystérieuse, indéterminée; fatalité pour les uns; pour les autres > volonté providentielle, dont l'action incessante sur les ètres vivants > détermine, à toutes les époques de l'existence du monde, la forme, le > volume, et la durée de chacun d'eux, en raison de sa destinée dans > l'ordre de choses dont il fait partie. C'est cette puissance qui > harmonise chaque membre à l'ensemble, en l'appropriant à la fonction > qu'il doit remplir dans l'organisme général de la nature, fonction qui > est pour lui sa raison d'ètre.'(3) > > In 1853 a celebrated geologist, Count Keyserling ("Bulletin de la Soc. > Gèolog.,' 2nd Ser., tom. x. p. 357), suggested that as new diseases, > supposed to have been caused by some miasma, have arisen and spread > over the world, so at certain periods the germs of existing species > may have been chemically affected by circumambient molecules of a > particular nature, and thus have given rise to new forms. > > In this same year, 1853, Dr Schaaffhausen published an excellent > pamphlet ('Verhand. des Naturhist. Vereins der preuss. Rheinlands,' > &c.), in which he maintains the development of organic forms on the > earth. He infers that many species have kept true for long periods, > whereas a few have become modified. The distinction of species he > explains by the destruction of intermediate graduated forms. 'Thus > living plants and animals are not separated from the extinct by new > creations, but are to be regarded as their descendants through > continued reproduction.' > > A well-known French botanist, M. Lecoq, writes in 1854 ('Etudes sur > Géograph. Bot.,' tom. i. p. 250), 'On voit que nos recherches sur la > fixité ou la variation de l'espèce, nous conduisent directement aux > idées émises, par deux hommes justement célèbres, Geoffroy > Saint-Hilaire et Goethe.' Some other passages scattered through M. > Lecoq's large work, make it a little doubtful how far he extends his > views on the modification of species. > > The 'Philosophy of Creation' has been treated in a masterly manner by > the Rev. Baden Powell, in his "Essays on the Unity of Worlds,' 1855. > Nothing can be more striking than the manner in which he shows that > the introduction of new species is "a regular, not a casual > phenomenon,' or, as Sir John Herschel expresses it, 'a natural in > contradistinction to a miraculous, process.' > > The third volume of the "Journal of the Linnean Society' contains > papers, read July 1st, 1858, by Mr Wallace and myself, in which, as > stated in the introductory remarks to this volume, the theory of > Natural Selection is promulgated by Mr Wallace with admirable force > and clearness. > > Von Baer, towards whom all zoologists feel so profound a respect, > expressed about the year 1859 (see Prof. Rudolph Wagner, a > "Zoologisch-Anthropologische Untersuchungen,' 1861, s. 51) his > conviction, chiefly grounded on the laws of geographical distribution, > that forms now perfectly distinct have descended from a single > parent-form. > > In June, 1859, Professor Huxley gave a lecture before the Royal > Institution on the 'Persistent Types of Animal Life.' Referring to > such cases, he remarks, "It is difficult to comprehend the meaning of > such facts as these, if we suppose that each species of animal and > plant, or each great type of organisation, was formed and placed upon > the surface of the globe at long intervals by a distinct act of > creative power; and it is well to recollect that such an assumption is > as unsupported by tradition or revelation as it is opposed to the > general analogy of nature. If, on the other hand, we view 'Persistent > Types' in relation to that hypothesis which supposes the species > living at any time to be the result of the gradual modification of > pre-existing species a hypothesis which, though unproven, and sadly > damaged by some of its supporters, is yet the only one to which > physiology lends any countenance; their existence would seem to show > that the amount of modification which living beings have undergone > during geological time is but very small in relation to the whole > series of changes which they have suffered.' > > In December, 1859, Dr Hooker published his 'Introduction to the > Australian Flora.' In the first part of this great work he admits the > truth of the descent and modification of species, and supports this > doctrine by many original observations. > > The first edition of this work was published on November 24th, 1859, > and the second edition on January 7th, 1860. > > Footnotes > > (1) Aristotle, in his 'Physicae Auscultationes' (lib. 2, cap. 8, s. > 2), after remarking that rain does not fall in order to make the corn > grow, any more than it falls to spoil the farmer's corn when threshed > out of doors, applies the same argument to organization: and adds (as > translated by Mr Clair Grece, who first pointed out the passage to > me), 'So what hinders the different parts [of the body] from having > this merely accidental relation in nature? as the teeth, for example, > grow by necessity, the front ones sharp, adapted for dividing, and the > grinders flat, and serviceable for masticating the food; since they > were not made for the sake of this, but it was the result of accident. > And in like manner as to the other parts in which there appears to > exist an adaptation to an end. Wheresoever, therefore, all things > together (that is all the parts of one whole) happened like as if they > were made for the sake of something, these were preserved, having been > appropriately constituted by an internal spontaneity, and whatsoever > things were not thus constituted, perished, and still perish. We here > see the principle of natural selection shadowed forth, but how little > Aristotle fully comprehended the principle, is shown by his remarks on > the formation of the teeth. > > (2) I have taken the date of the first publication of Lamarck from > Isid. Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire's ('Hist. Nat. Générale,' tom. ii. p. > 405, 1859) excellent history of opinion on this subject. In this work > a full account is given of Buffon's conclusions on the same subject. > It is curious how largely my grandfather, Dr Erasmus Darwin, > anticipated the views and erroneous grounds of opinion of Lamarck in > his 'Zoonomia' (vol. i. pp. 500-510), published in 1794. According to > Isid. Geoffroy there is no doubt that Goethe was an extreme partisan > of similar views, as shown in the Introduction to a work written in > 1794 and 1795, but not published till long afterwards: he has > pointedly remarked ('Goethe als Naturforscher,' von Dr Karl Medinge s. > 34) that the future question for naturalists will be how, for > instance, cattle got their horns, and not for what they are used. It > is rather a singular instance of the manner in which similar views > arise at about the same time, that Goethe in Germany, Dr Darwin in > England, and Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire (as we shall immediately see) in > France; came to the same conclusion on the origin of species, in the > years 1794-5. > > (3) From references in Bronn's 'Untersuchungen über die > Entwickenlungs-Gesetze,' it appears that the celebrated botanist and > palaeontologist Unger published, in 1852, his belief that species > undergo development and modification. Dalton, likewise, in Pander and > Dalton's work on Fossil Sloths, expressed, in 1821 a similar belief. > Similar views have, as is well known, been maintained by Oken in his > mystical 'Natur-philosophie.' From other references in Godron's work > 'Sur l'Espéce,' it seems that Bory St Vincent, Burdach, Poiret, and > Fries, have all admitted that new species are continually being > produced. > > I may add, that of the thirty-four authors named in this Historical > Sketch, who believe in the modification of species, or at least > disbelieve in separate acts of creation, twenty-seven have written on > special branches of natural history or geology. > > > Contents > Introduction > > > > > > > Home Page | Browse | Search | Feedback | Links > The FAQ | Must-Read Files | Index | Creationism | Evolution | Age of > the Earth | Flood Geology | Catastrophism | Debates >

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:06:38 -0800 > From: Blanc <blancw(a)cnw.com> > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > BTW, you should consider that when Einstein proposed the creation of a > bomb, it was within the context of a war being advanced globally by an evil > madman who was gathering every resource to subdue and decimate everything > in his way, and that the rest of the world was desperate for a solution. Um, actualy Einstein didn't propose a bomb. I believe Leo Szilard approached Einstein with a letter asking the President to begin an initiative. The motivation was because most of the really worthwhile German physicists working on the Nazi programs left the Nazi sphere. The fear was that since Germany had the *only* supply of heavy water in the world and the only state backed program in the field that if the US didn't do something they would loose the bomb in a series of bright flashes. I also, don't believe the war had actualy started when Einstein was approaced by Leo on Aug. 2, 1939. > Also you should remember that some brilliant people, like Newton, who was a > shy man and didn't necessarily see himself as others did/do, did not care > if anyone else saw the results of his work. He certainly went to great pains to publish it, even anonymously in some cases and out of his own pocket. > Once he had solved the > problems in his own mind, he was not exceptionally concerned that others > were also struggling with the same, nor whether "the community" needed the > answer. He was pursuing knowledge for reasons of his own. He pursued knowledge for deep religous reasons, according to his notes. Newton was also the Exchequer of England and had 3 peopled hanged for stealing gold from the government mint. He took the job because he had pissed so many people off at the time because of his attitude that he couldn't find work. It was prior to him becoming know as the 'Lion of England' and gaining life tenure. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >The same guy informed me later that he discovered a closed-form solution to >some very interesting problems 9related to Black-Scholes) which according to >the open literature either can't be done accurately at all, or require >incredible amounts of cpu time for monte carlo simulations. he doesn't >wish tio publish it (although it would make him quite a celebrity) and >now he's going crazy trying to figure out a way to sell it in such a way >that he can't get screwed again. How would crypto help if at all? ........................................................... I don't know about crypto, but I just attended a very informative financial forum on protecting intellectual property, presented by two representatives from Arthur Andersen and Preston Gates & Ellis, LLP. I picked up a little brochure which the attorney firm had available for attendees: We counsel and represent inventors, authors, publishers, visual artists, and musicians as they face a host of new and important issues. Preston Gates attorneys negotiate the use of creative expression in the full range of media, from CD-Roms and on-line services to interactive television and video games. We monitor and advise clients on developments in consumer protection, defamation, infringement, and other legal areas that affect their ability to develop and market creative properties. {etc} web site: www.prestongates.com, email: infotech(a)prestongates.com .. Blanc

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 23:45:25 EST > > Janos Bolyai was the son of the math professor Farkas B. in Buda(best). Who also worked with Gauss and probably beat Gauss to any solution to the problem of non-euclidean geometry (see Kurzer Grundriss eines Versuchs, p. 46). > In 1832 he published his findings as an appendix > to his father's textbook. Actualy his father published it as an afterthought to get him to quit working on Euclids Parallels. It was published in Tomus Secundus (1833, pp. 265 - 322) written by his father. > arises if you omit this axiom. According to my sources, the appendix > is "Wronski-like" to the point of unreadability. Apparently no one > actually read it until B. started arguing about who did what first. Both John Bolyai's "The Science of Absolute Space" and Nicholas Lobachevski's "The Theory of Parallels" are included in Roberto Bonola's "Non-euclidean Geometry" (Dover, ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). I certainly had no problem reading the 3 combined books. I was just looking at the translators notes to Lobachevski, it was done by George Bruce Halsted of 2407 San Marcos St, Austin, Tx. May 1, 1891. > well accepted by his peers. Neither Bolyai nor Lobachevsky knew about > Gauss's work. Not true, Bolyai wrote him several letters as described in his book and the various prefaces. Lobachevski's book was promoted by Gauss as the first and truely critical work on non-euclidean geometry. In a rare show of magnamity Gauss even admits that Lobachevski's work exceeded his own. > I have no idea what Bonola wrote, but if he's just repeating the allegations > Bolyai made about Gauss while suffering from depression and paranoia, they > have no more truth in them than the Timmy May rants on this mailing list. He wrote a classic work on non-euclidean geometry that was quite popular in 1912 when it was printed. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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XXX ADULT SEX!!!
by wogague2＠toyoma-u.ac.jp 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: cypherpunks and guns
by Crisavec 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

William H. Geiger III typethed the following... > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >In <19980107001651.29456(a)songbird.com>, on 01/07/98 > at 03:16 AM, Kent Crispin <kent(a)songbird.com> said: > >>On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote: >>> > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict >>> > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe >>> > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make >>> >>> If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. > >>That presumes the enemy is dumb. An amusing fantasy. > >The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie >evidence of diminished mental capacity. Don't bet on.... There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't complete idiots and those of us who are.

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a good example of bad crypto hype
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm >you can test your critical thinking skills... Bawahahahaha. That's the biggest bunch of complete bullshit I've read in years. Thanks, Meganet, you made my night. They must be smoking crack and a lot of it.

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Re: [Censored] Quote of the Day (fwd)
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Young wrote: >DPS sumbitch ran me down near DFW, me and my crap filled van, >my mangy hide and shaggy hair, my NY plates, my wildly dumped >substances, and sat behind for a few drags of AC in 100 degree heat, >miked in the number, adjusted his mirrors, tilted the vidcam skyward, >and climbed out, a big, very big widowmaker high on his fat ass, >hustled his privates, spat juice, and farted hard enough to quiver the >VW and me. I think John has been skipping his meds again. Come on, John, the pill is your friend!

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a good example of bad crypto hype
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm >you can test your critical thinking skills... Bawahahahaha. That's the biggest bunch of complete bullshit I've read in years. Thanks, Meganet, you made my night. They must be smoking crack and a lot of it.

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate wrote, regarding Newton: >He certainly went to great pains to publish it, even anonymously in some >cases and out of his own pocket. ............................................................... Okay, just this one reply on this subject, Jim. Taken from "The World of Mathematics", and article entitled "Newton, the Man", by John Maynard Keynes: " His deepest instincts were occult, esoteric, semantic - with profound shrinking from the world, a paralyzing fear of exposing his thoughts, his beliefs, his discoveries in all nakedness to the inspection and criticism of the world. 'Of the most fearful, cautious and suspicious temper that I ever knew', said Whiston, his successor in the Lucasian Chair. The too well-known conflicts and ignoble quarrels with Hooke, Flamsteed, Leibnitz are only too clear an evidence of this. Like all his type he was wholly aloof from women. He parted with and published nothing except under the extreme pressure of friends. Until the second phase of his life, he was a wrapt, consecrated solitary, pursuing his studies by intenese introspection with a mental endurance perhaps never equalled. [...] There is the story of how he informed Halley of one of his most fundamental discoveries of planetary motion. 'Yes', replied Halley, 'but how do you know that? Have you proved it?' Newton was taken aback - 'Why, I've known it for years', he replied. 'If you'll give me a few days, I'll certainly find you a proof of it' - as in due course he did." .. Blanc

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oracle on feds (fwd)
by Vipul Ved Prakash 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Selected-By: David Bremner <bremner(a)cs.mcgill.ca> The Internet Oracle has pondered your question deeply. Your question was: > DearOralemostwisepleasetellme... > > Look, I'm sorry to rush this, but the IRS, BATF, IRS, CIA, INS, IMF and > CFR agents (not to mention the black helicopters) are at my front door. > What should I do? And in response, thus spake the Oracle: ENTERTAINING FEDERAL AGENTS with MARTHA STEWART Hello, I'm Martha Stewart, welcome to my answer. Our good friend The Internet Oracle is not able to answer your question right now, and so he has asked me to try to help. Let's take a look at your situation, shall we? Entertaining large groups of Federal agents is always a bit of a challenge, especially when we're pressed for time. Of course, it's always best to be prepared for visitors. You should have a neatly trimmed and freshly painted entryway, with a large Welcome mat and perhaps some cut flowers. A wooden rocking chair on the porch adds a homey touch of camouflage. When Federal agents are expected, I like to take a little time beforehand and knit a large Plywood Cozy for each window to catch some of the broken glass. Don't forget to save the shards! They can be dyed later and arranged into a stunning stained glass mosaic. For autumn, have plenty of hot mulled cider ready. Not only is it healthy and aromatic, it's better than water for extinguishing fires! If your electricity is sabotaged, use your supply of flares in tasteful candle holders. Finally, don't be afraid to think creatively. Although many people think of large-caliber bullets as merely a nuisance, they can be recovered and used as decorative accessories and paper weights, or hammered into distinctive buttons. With a little brown paint, a smoke grenade can also be fashioned into a quaint pineapple arrangement! As always, remember to be courteous and kind, and just relax and be yourself. It takes only a small extra effort to be remembered for your own unique style of entertaining. Enjoy! You owe the Oracle a throw rug woven from yellow "Police Line" tape. -- "So Beck was the hacker and Oda was the backer. The oldest and most troublesome relationship in the technological world." -- "Diamond Age", Neal Stephenson. ================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail(a)vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces

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Re: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood!
by Ryan Lackey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

<daemon(a)ATHENA.MIT.EDU> (David Honig) writes: > At 10:48 PM 1/7/98 -0800, Sergey Goldgaber wrote: > > > >1 - Anonymity is technically feasable. > > > >2 - This requirement is a legal necessity. Otherwise, the organization > > may be seen as advocating murder. > > > >Obviously, if the "Death Pool" was fully anonymous, there would be > >no way to tell if the winner had contributed in any way to the death. > > > >Thus, I think we may be well on our way to Assasination Politics. > > > > - Sergey Goldgaber > > I agree, but "contribute to death" needs to be operationalized. Here's a > proposal: > If a homicide suspect is arrested within N months, they will be isolated > from the net > and the owner of the winning ID will have to perform a challenge-response. > Since > the suspect couldn't have replied, they are different; if a pair > collaborated, well, > when a hit man is caught, his payoff matrix will usually make him turn in > the client. Given strong cryptography and something like my current Eternity DDS almost prototype (a reliable distributed way of selling storage-compute-bandwidth being the relevant part), why couldn't the incarcerated person have left an agent out on the net to handle the challenge for him, and hold the money in anonymous trust for him until he gets out? I can't think of any anonymity-preserving system which contains an "is-a-person" predicate -- even if you asked an AI-hard question, you could blind the question and post it to usenet or CNN or something and quote one of those responses (which would be wise to do anyway for styleometry prevention). The other option is having a non-anonymous system, or one that is anonymous until someone tries to collect the prize, but in that case, it's not all that interesting a problem. Ryan the Nightshifted -- Ryan Lackey rdl(a)mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:01:22 -0800 > From: Blanc <blancw(a)cnw.com> > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > " His deepest instincts were occult, esoteric, semantic - with profound > shrinking from the world, a paralyzing fear of exposing his thoughts, his > beliefs, his discoveries in all nakedness to the inspection and criticism > of the world. 'Of the most fearful, cautious and suspicious temper that I > ever knew', said Whiston, > The too > well-known conflicts and ignoble quarrels with Hooke, Flamsteed, Leibnitz > are only too clear an evidence of this. Would you or Keynes like to explain how such an aloof character could have had so many 'well-known' conflicts without publishing and discussing his and others work? How can somebody who supposedly never published have become so well know? I guess he got somebody else to stand in for him in the various discourses he partook of at the Royal Society meetings. > He parted with and published nothing except under the > extreme pressure of friends. I would suggest a simple trip to the library and look at what is published by Newton. If I get the chance I'll take a look and catalog some of the anonymous publishing that are attributed to him. It may take a while, this unfortunately can't reside very high on my list of priorities; sorry. > Until the second phase of his life, he was a > wrapt, consecrated solitary, pursuing his studies by intenese introspection > with a mental endurance perhaps never equalled. Would you or Keynes like to explain exactly how a government employee, ,as the Exchequer or as a Professor of Natural Philosophy (Physics) would remain solitary? I guess Newton went to the various mints (if memory serves at the time there were 3) and did his other duties including presenting cases in court related to theft and counterfeiting by proxy? > There is the story of how he informed Halley of one of his most fundamental > discoveries of planetary motion. 'Yes', replied Halley, 'but how do you > know that? Have you proved it?' Newton was taken aback - 'Why, I've known > it for years', he replied. 'If you'll give me a few days, I'll certainly > find you a proof of it' - as in due course he did." Yeah, Halley had just seen the comet and was trying to figure out it's orbit. He approached many people on the issue and Newton was the only one who could resolve the issue in England. Because of the long periodicity and the fact that Halley didn't have 3 sightings he couldn't use the standard orbit calculations. By using calculus, which Newton had invented and Halley didn't know, it was possible to calculate an envelope of orbits. Haley then researched records of sightings and determined that only one comet with a 75+ year orbit could be it. If Newton was so unknown from not publishing why did Halley even care to ask Newton? Halley was a pretty notable character in his own right. He was given a ship to do the first magnetic map of the N. Atlantic, he called it 'Paramour Pink' (Pink Lover). He and the prince of Russia would also push themselves around London in a wheelbarrow drunk as skunks... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:01:22 -0800 > From: Blanc <blancw(a)cnw.com> > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > " His deepest instincts were occult, esoteric, semantic - with profound > shrinking from the world, a paralyzing fear of exposing his thoughts, his > beliefs, his discoveries in all nakedness to the inspection and criticism > of the world. 'Of the most fearful, cautious and suspicious temper that I > ever knew', said Whiston, Sorry, I didn't think of this before... Did either Keynes or Whiston happen to mention that Newton was an alchemist? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Cute
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May is cute and cuddly! (_) _____ (_) /O O\ Timmy C[uddly] May ! I ! ! \___/ ! \_____/

2 1

Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch!
by ForOfficeCall＠1-713-524-3303 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

********************************************************************* - Remove from list information is after this important message - ********************************************************************* ******* ----------------------------------------------------------------- TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch Tie cleaning..richly hand finished....$ 7.95 each 4 minimum Ties altered..widen,narrowed,tips.....$12.50 each 2 minimum reshaped and hand sewn,etc Clean/alter..$17.50 each.....4 minimum Specialty scarf cleaning..$25.00 each....2 minimum Retunrn by UPS add $5.00 in the USA...our cost outside of USA. In Texas add 8.25% Sales Tax QUALITY care for NECKWARE since 1952 MC,VISA,DISCOVER Send ties to: HOLSEY CUSTOM CLOTHES 2613 Richmond Ave. Houston, Texas 77098 713-524-3303 Ask about our Web Page. After 5PM this number is forwared to our voice mail. TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: REMOVE-b(a)ix.netcom.com in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail and send. ****************************************************************** ******************************************************************

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RE: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto
by Trei, Peter 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My understanding is that a post BOX has to be a design acceptable to the USPS; and that no one else can put things INTO it. This is a pretty narrow restriction; door slots can be used by anyone for anything, and many postboxes either share a support post with a newspaper delivery tube or have an external rack for stuffing newspapers, etc. Back about 20 years ago, some company (FedEx, UPS????) tried to get into the first class mail delivery business, and they dealt with this by putting mail in a plastic bag and hanging it on the doorknob. Where I live (*small* town in New England), FedEx and UPS regularly leave packages unattended; either by the front door, the back door, or in the garage (this is a very low crime area). Around 1979, when the existence of email was just beginning to penetrate (there where only a few hundred thousand people on the Arpanet), there was considerable debate over the legality of email. Since access to Arpanet was theoretically only for people working on Federally funded projects, it was widely thought that it should only be used for project related work, and any personal mail was a misuse of government funds. Columbia University (where I was working at the time) allowed unlimited internal use, but had tinkered their mail client to ignore addresses to off-campus addresses. I think my very first hack involved defeating this restriction. About the same time, I remember that the Postal Carriers Union realized (quite correctly) that email was a threat to their civil service jobs, and came out with a statement to the effect of 'We don't quite understand what this thing is, but the USPS owns it." They wanted to require that email be received only at Post Offices, where it would be printed, stamped, and delivered (by one of their members) along with the rest of the mail. Peter Trei ptrei(a)securitydynamics.com > ---------- > From: Brian B. Riley[SMTP:brianbr@together.net] > > Maybe they are confusing an electronic mailbox with a snailmail box > ... > the USPS has always contended that they (the USPS) "own" your mailbox > and > use that criterion to prosecute people who drive around putting things > > like circulars etc in mailboxes. Maybe they we on a role thinking that > if > they got into the e-mail business they would 'own' that piece of your > hard drive so to speak. > > >

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Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch! (c)
by ForOfficeCall＠1-713-524-3303 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

********************************************************************* - Remove from list information is after this important message - ********************************************************************* ******* ----------------------------------------------------------------- TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch Tie cleaning..richly hand finished....$ 7.95 each 4 minimum Ties altered..widen,narrowed,tips.....$12.50 each 2 minimum reshaped and hand sewn,etc Clean/alter..$17.50 each.....4 minimum Specialty scarf cleaning..$25.00 each....2 minimum Retunrn by UPS add $5.00 in the USA...our cost outside of USA. In Texas add 8.25% Sales Tax QUALITY care for NECKWARE since 1952 MC,VISA,DISCOVER Send ties to: HOLSEY CUSTOM CLOTHES 2613 Richmond Ave. Houston, Texas 77098 713-524-3303 Ask about our Web Page. After 5PM this number is forwared to our voice mail. TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: REMOVE-b(a)ix.netcom.com in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail and send. ****************************************************************** ******************************************************************

1 0

Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 10:24:24 EST > I'm sorry, I don't have the time to look this up. If you're trying to prove > that Gauss was not a nice person, I don't believe it. Anyone who would tell their dying wife, via their son, to wait a moment until he had finished his calculations is not a nice person. > argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was not > a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai > (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dirt > on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice person. What the hell are you talking about here? I made no such claims at all. Lobashevski was the first person to write in modern history on non-euclidean geometry. Gauss was a contemporary and was quite familiar with Lobashevski's work. He was even asked to review "The Theory of Parallels". Gauss, in an uncharacteristic act, even admitted that Lobachevski's work had progressed farther than his own. > only for the noble-born and wealthy. Gauss did a lot to help other > people in many ways, both as individuals, and in targeting his research > to solve practical problems for good of the humanity. Gauss did a lot of harm as well. He characteristicaly denied works of others and trivialized their contributions while at the same time promoting his own. He was prone to bouts of drunken anger and is known to have physicaly attacked quite a few people while in that state. His usual treatment of contemporaries was based on contempt, not respect. > You also haven't explained how Bolyai could have been Gauss's school friend, > being 25 years younger. Bolyai's father worked with Gauss (as I explained) and his son John also worked with Gauss from the time he (Bolyai) was in school; not Gauss. I am going to refrain from going on with the remainder of your 'points'. You have strayed so far afield, as usual, or misconstrued comments that it has no relevance to what the original discussion was about, which was science advances when people publish and share their work - not when it is held back and unpublished. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

2 1

In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:57:07 -0500 From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News ************ http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 9, 1998 In God We Antitrust by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) Bill Gates likes to portray himself as a businessman hounded by hordes of boorish bureaucrats who resent his success. "It's absolutely clear that our competitors are spending an enormous amount of time and money trying to whip up anti-Microsoft sentiment in Washington, D.C.," says spokesman Mark Murray. "For the past year, Netscape, Sun and other competitors have been crawling all over Washington, D.C., trying to use the government as a weapon against Microsoft -- rather than competing head-to-head in the marketplace." Of course, that's what you'd expect a PR flack to say, whether it's true or not. But maybe, just maybe, Microsoft has a point. A close look at the history of antitrust law reveals that its enforcement has always been political. The demand for antitrust regulations in the first place came from midwestern butchers who wanted to block competition from more efficient meat-packing plants in Chicago. Since then, execution of the 1890 Sherman Act has been highly partisan: Democratic administrations are nearly twice as likely to bring antitrust cases as Republicans. Antitrust regulations are also protectionist: Regulators wield them to protect domestic companies from overseas competitors. If it's politics and not policy that prompted the Justice Department to assail Microsoft this time around, the paper trail may not become public until well into the next century. For now, though, we can look at antitrust history instead: ITT and Nixon: President Richard Nixon intervened in an antitrust action against International Telephone & Telegraph in 1971 in exchange for a bribe -- a hefty contribution to the 1972 Republican convention. "I don't know whether ITT is bad, good or indifferent," he said on April 19, 1971, White House tapes reveal. "But there is not going to be any more antitrust actions as long as I am in this chair... goddamn it, we're going to stop it." [...snip...] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo(a)vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------

6 6

waco trail / german bugs -- from spyking list
by Ray Arachelian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

15)From: SpyKing(a)thecodex.com Subject: Re: Deadly Physical Force This thread might be getting tired but I ran across something that is applicable. I make no judgement on who is right or wrong. I was not there and only those who were know the truth. I'm posting this to show that despite being acquitted in one court the shooter in this case is being charged and brought to trial in another court on similiar charges. Some will scream double jeapordy and others will say justice is prevailing. The jury will have to decide... but I'll say one thing... If this guy IS convicted the rules of engagement change forever... SWAT teams will have to think twice before firing into dwellings... FBI sniper ordered to stand trial in Ruby Ridge case BONNERS FERRY, Idaho (Reuters) - An FBI sharpshooter has been ordered to stand trial on charges of involuntary manslaughter over the 1992 standoff at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in which three people died, prosecutors said Wednesday. Idaho Magistrate Quentin Harden ruled there was enough evidence to allow the sharpshooter, Lon Horiuchi, to face trial on charges he acted with negligence when he fired a shot that killed the wife of white separatist Randy Weaver at his cabin. The standoff near Weaver's cabin turned into a rallying cry for extreme right-wingers who condemned what they saw as federal government excesses and held up Weaver as a hero. Boundary County prosecutor Denise Woodbury last August charged Horiuchi and Weaver's friend Kevin Harris with the deaths of two people killed in the standoff. The charges against Harris were later dismissed on the grounds that he had already been acquitted of those charges in federal court. In filing charges against Horiuchi, Woodbury accused the sharpshooter of using a gun in a reckless manner by firing through the front door of Weaver's house without first determining whether anyone other than his intended target was behind the door. Horiuchi could face up to 10 years in prison if convicted. The standoff began Aug. 21, 1992, when U.S. Marshals approached Weaver's cabin to arrest him for failing to appear in court on gun charges. U.S. Marshal William Degan and Weaver's 14-year-old son Sammy were killed in a gun battle near the cabin, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation was called in later that day. The next day, Horiuchi wounded Weaver and Harris and killed Vicki Weaver. Weaver and Harris surrendered 10 days later and were acquitted of murder charges in the killing of Degan in a 1993 federal trial. Weaver said in a telephone interview from his home in Montana that he was pleased by Harden's ruling. ``It's taken a long time, but sometimes the wheels of justice grind slowly. We are looking to see some justice in all of this,'' Weaver said. ``To be honest I hope that he (Horiuchi) eventually sees that he is just one of two scapegoats and that eventually he will tell the whole truth.'' Horiuchi's lawyers were due to appear next Monday before a federal judge in Boise to ask that the case against the FBI sniper be moved to federal court. Horiuchi was scheduled to be arraigned Friday, Feb. 13, in Idaho district court in Boundary County, but that could change if his case is remanded to federal court. Neither Horiuchi's lawyers nor Woodbury were immediately available for comment on Harden's ruling. 16)From: SpyKing(a)thecodex.com Subject: Germany to restore bugging Thursday January 8, 1:58 PM GMT Germany to restore bugging banned since Nazi-era BONN, Jan 8 (Reuters) - German political leaders agreed on Thursday to allow police to bug apartments of suspected criminals, restoring a crime-fighting tool banned since abuses by the secret police in the Nazi era. Leaders from Chancellor Helmut Kohl's centre-right coalition and the opposition Social Democrats (SPD) said they had reached a deal allowing police to plant microphones in private homes of suspected criminals for the first time since 1945. Both houses of parliament are now expected to quickly pass the long-debated measure, which police have argued was needed to better fight organised crime and bring the country in line with other nations that allow electronic surveillance. Germany, which reacted to the Gestapo's abuses with some of the Western world's most extensive civil liberties laws, has long resisted any relaxation in constitutional protections that have kept police out of private homes. Interior Minister Manfred Kanther said the agreement would give police the necessary tool to fight organised crime. "This is a decisive step towards more effectively fighting crime," Kanther said. "We can now keep surveillance on suspected gangster apartments and we will be able to better fight money laundering." The opposition SPD, which controls the upper house of parliament, the Bundesrat, said it would support the measure after the government agreed to partial exemptions for some professional groups such as priests, attorneys and journalists. Police will be required to obtain advance court permission for any surveillance. Previously, police were only given rare exemptions to the constitutional law protecting the private home. They were allowed to use listening devices or electronic surveillance only with court permission if there was concrete evidence that a serious crime was about to take place. Now authorities will have the power to use eavesdropping methods far more extensively and will also for the first time be able to bug apartments after a crime has been committed to obtain evidence. Germany's post-war constitution barred police from electronic surveillance, telephone taps and intercepting mail. The bans on telephone taps and mail intercepts were relaxed in the 1970s amid a wave of left-wing guerrilla attacks.

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Re: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood!
by David Honig 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:28 AM 1/9/98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: ><daemon(a)ATHENA.MIT.EDU> (David Honig) writes: > >> >> I agree, but "contribute to death" needs to be operationalized. Here's a >> proposal: >> If a homicide suspect is arrested within N months, they will be isolated >> from the net >> and the owner of the winning ID will have to perform a challenge-response. >> Since >> the suspect couldn't have replied, they are different; if a pair >> collaborated, well, >> when a hit man is caught, his payoff matrix will usually make him turn in >> the client. > >Given strong cryptography and something like my current Eternity DDS >almost prototype (a reliable distributed way of selling >storage-compute-bandwidth being the relevant part), why couldn't the >incarcerated person have left an agent out on the net to handle the >challenge for him, and hold the money in anonymous trust for him until >he gets out? I can't think of any anonymity-preserving system which >contains an "is-a-person" predicate -- even if you asked an AI-hard >question, you could blind the question and post it to usenet or CNN >or something and quote one of those responses (which would be wise to >do anyway for styleometry prevention). > >The other option is having a non-anonymous system, or one that is >anonymous until someone tries to collect the prize, but in that case, >it's not all that interesting a problem. > >Ryan the Nightshifted >-- >Ryan Lackey >rdl(a)mit.edu >http://mit.edu/rdl/ > I think this gets into legal issues. Consider fraudelent insurance and gambling schemes involving collaboration -illegal, but hard to detect unless someone turns. Consider a hit man who takes the fall for the boss, so that his family is taken care of. In these cases and in an AP scheme, the law can't prove much if certain parties collaborate. Maybe the winner of the "BATF agents blown up in 97" bet *is* John Doe III; but since the investigation claims no such person, and the winner is not in jail now, the winner has fairly earned their reward via their skill in actuarial matters. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig(a)otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA

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Eureka! Fri Jan 9 '98
by eureka＠eureka.abc-web.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Einstein quotes
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I thought I'd share these quote... The one quote that I found really funny is the one where Einstein says that had he known he would have been a locksmith. At some point after he came to the US somebody asked him what he would have been if he hadn't taken up physics. His reply was a plumber. He was promptly made an honorary member of the national plumbers union. Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.humboldt1.com/~gralsto/einstein/quotes.html > > ALBERT EINSTEIN QUOTES > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "It is best, it seems to me, to separate one's inner striving from > one's trade as far as possible. It is not good when one's daily break > is tied to God's special blessing." -- Albert Einstein > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "It may affront the military-minded person to suggest a reqime that > does not maintain any military secrets." -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it > would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described > a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "So long as they don't get violent, I want to let everyone say what > they wish, for I myself have always said exactly what pleased me." -- > Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > "Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a > valuable gift and not as a hard duty." -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Gravity cannot be held responsible for people falling in love." -- > Albert Einstein > > Thanks to Rick Burress <rburress(a)home.com> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two > minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like > two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein > > Thanks to Glen E Kelly <kelly(a)jetlink.net> > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned > my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, scince for > him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization > should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless > brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all > this, how despiceable an ignoreable war is; I would rather be torn to > shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that > killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." -- > Albert Einstein > Thanks to Alexander Elsing <else(a)neuss.netsurf.de> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not > certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to > reality."--Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing. -- Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called > research, would it?" > - Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age > eighteen." > - Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Albert Einstein, when asked to describe radio, replied: > "You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull > his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you > understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send > signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that > there is no cat." > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > God doesn't play dice. > -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean. -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World > War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > If A equals success, then the formula is _ A = _ X + _ Y + _ Z. _ X is > work. _ Y is play. _ Z is keep your mouth shut. -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith." > -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Man usually avoids attributing cleverness to somebody else > -- unless it is an enemy. > > -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax. -- > Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > --Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." --Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "I never think of the future. It comes soon enough." --Albert Einstein > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and > I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." --Albert > Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all > comprehensible." --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has > merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one." > --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." --Albert > Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing > is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --A. > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly > submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his > intelligence." --Einstein, Albert > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, > education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would > indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of > punishment and hope of reward after death." --Einstein, Albert > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the > creation of the world." --Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If one studies too zealously, one easily loses his pants." --Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Through the release of atomic energy, our generation has brought into > the world the most revolutionary force since prehistoric man's > discovery of fire. This basic force of the universe cannot be fitted > into the outmoded concept of narrow nationalisms. > For there is no secret and there is no defense; there is no > possibility of control except through the aroused understanding and > insistence of the peoples of the world. We scientists recognise our > inescapable responsibility to carry to our fellow citizens an > understanding of atomic energy and its implication for society. In > this lies our only security and our only hope - we believe that an > informed citizenry will act for life and not for death. > A. Einstein, 1947 d.C. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor. > > > _________________________________________________________________ >

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Re: Microsoft Windows98 - Make your own decision.
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Sender: jnoble(a)pop.dgsys.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications <CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications <CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> From: John Noble <jnoble(a)DGSYS.COM> Subject: Re: Microsoft Windows98 - Make your own decision. To: CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM At 10:22 AM -0600 1/9/98, Virginia Metze wrote: >Those are the Fortune 500 figures which they identify as total revenues and >which I take to mean gross. Incidentally, Microsoft is 172, IBM #6. >Destruction of Microsoft's Word revenues, which accounts for a lot of their >profit, is what >would really seriously damage them, and note the push of IBM into the >desktop applications market... > >And IBM is going to be way out in front of everyone no matter how it >is measured. > I share Virginia's sentiment about MS-bashing, but if I were going to measure market power I'd look at profit margins. These figures are provided by Hoovers Stockscreener http://www.stockscreener.com which is a lot of fun to play with. Market Value (mils.): General Electric Company 243000.0 The Coca-Cola Company 164792.0 Microsoft Corporation 157473.0 Exxon Corporation 146881.0 Nippon Telegraph and Telephone 135252.0 Merck 127673.0 Intel 121575.0 Philip Morris Companies Inc. 112867.0 Royal Dutch Petroleum Company 112039.0 The Procter & Gamble Company 108281.0 Toyota Motor Corporation 105326.0 IBM 102912.0 Revenues (mils) (for mkt caps over 100 bil): Exxon Corporation 119507.0 Toyota Motor Corporation 98740.6 General Electric Company 86658.0 Royal Dutch Petroleum Company 85784.7 IBM 77928.0 Philip Morris Companies Inc. 71512.0 Nippon T & T 71262.4 AT&T Corp. 52839.0 The Procter & Gamble Company 36216.0 Intel Corporation 25003.0 Merck & Co., Inc 22810.9 The Coca-Cola Company 18610.0 Microsoft Corporation 12193.0 Pfizer Inc 12169.0 PROFIT MARGIN (for mkt caps over 100 bil.): Microsoft Corporation 30.4% Intel Corporation 24.7% Merck & Co., Inc. 19.6% The Coca-Cola Company 18.8% Pfizer Inc 17.1% AT&T Corp. 11.0% The Procter & Gamble Company 9.5% General Electric Company 9.3% Philip Morris Companies Inc. 9.1% IBM 7.1% Royal Dutch Petroleum Company 6.9% Exxon Corporation 6.4% Toyota Motor Corporation 3.2% Nippon T & T 2.9% John Noble --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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Batch DSA
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Batch DSA Amos Fiat invented a way to do multiple RSA signatures using only one full-sized exponentiation [J Cryptology v10 n2 p75]. The trick is to sign each one with a different RSA key, where the keys all share the same modulus n but differ in their public exponents e. A similar technique allows DSA signatures to be batched. As with Batch RSA, each message ends up being signed with a different DSA key, where the keys share the same p, q, and g values, but differ in their public y values, where y = g^x mod p for a secret x. These techniques may be useful for situations where heavily loaded servers need to digitally sign many responses. A DSA signature on a message M (where M is the hash of the actual data) is done as follows: Choose a random value k. k must be different for every signature. Calculate R = g^k mod p mod q. Calculate S from S*k = M + R*x mod q. Then (R, S) is the signature. The time consuming part of this is the calculation of g^k. This is the only exponentiation which must be done. All the other calculations can be very fast. We can't re-use a k value because it allows x to be discovered very easily. If two signatures (R, S_1) and (R, S_2) use the same k value, we have (mod q): S_1*k = M_1 + R*x S_2*k = M_2 + R*x The capitalized values are known, the lower case k and x are the unknowns. We have two equations in two unknowns, which allows us to recover k and x. If different x values are used for each signature, then it should be safe to re-use k. This is how Batch DSA would work. The signer would publish his public key as p, q, and g as usual, but now he would publish multiple y_i = g^x_i values. The convention is that any message is considered signed by the key if it is signed by any of the y_i. To sign a batch of messages, one k value is used for all of them. The same calculation as above is used: R = g^k mod p mod q (same for all) S_i * k = M_i + R * x_i mod q The signature is (R, S_i, i), where the index i is included to tell the verifier which y_i to use. This is not vulnerable to the problem above of re-using k. The multiple signatures have the relationships: S_1*k = M_1 + R*x_1 S_2*k = M_2 + R*x_2 S_3*k = M_3 + R*x_3 ... We always have more unknowns than there are equations, which hides the values of k and x_i. This same technique can be applied to most other discrete log signatures, which generally have the same structure although they differ in the details of how x and k are used to construct R and S. With Batch RSA, there is a tradeoff between batch size and efficiency. The calculations become inefficient for batch sizes larger than tens of messages when keys are about 1K bits. Batch DSA can efficiently handle larger batches, but it has a tradeoff between batch size and key size. Each key variant requires specifying a full-sized y value, while with Batch RSA the variants just required listing a small e value (and possibly not even that, if the exponents are the small primes). This will limit Batch DSA in most circumstances to similar batch sizes of on the order of tens of messages, otherwise the keys become unreasonably large.

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Will Be: DEATH THREAT !!! to Follow... [Currently Is: Janet Reno is not an Indigo Girl...she's just ugly]
by TruthMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

BillyG, No doubt world leaders and titans of industry have noticed the recent pause in the steady stream of death threats they receive daily, and are worried about my health, but you're the only one who sent a "Get Sicker" card... Nonetheless, I must put off catching up on my thinly veiled threats of ChainSaw Justice for a bit longer, in order to address an even more important concern, namely: "How the hell can fag girls be so cute and make such great music, when Janet Reno is so fucking butt-ugly and can only make bizarre, senseless noise?" Anyway, when you see the $on Little$ystems and Nut$crape crowd, tell them that the crazy Canuck who used to roam their hallways screaming, "Give your software away, you fucking idiots...you'll get filthy fucking rich!" now says, "Hi...and go fuck yourself." It's bad enough that Corporate A$$holes (TM) want me to call a game, "The MegaCorp Making Money Off Of Amateur Athlete$ Bowl", but when the fuckers start making Micro$not Ba$hing (TM) a corporate game where the players wear shirts with little animals where the pocket for your butts is supposed to be... Oil the fucking chainsaw, eh? In my last thinly veiled death threat to BadBillyC, I told him to tell Ms. Justice-Is-Not-Only-BLIND-It's-UGLY-Too that "MICRO$NOT is to INSLAW...as...ChainSaws are to ButterKnives." It had nothing to do with the Indigo Girls CD that woke me up this morning reminding me of Indio, Indians and INSLAW, and everything to do with Micro$not Ba$hing (TM) being every bit as sacred as having a butt on the crapper in the morning. When America can no longer count on the Little Guy to war against such basic human degradations as Life Under DOS, then we are doomed--individually and as a nation. Which brings me to another rambling point totally unconnected to my last chain of thought... I got to fiddling with the car radio last week and inadvertently drove past the bar, thus launching the "TRUTHMONGER WORLDWIDE CHAINSAW RETRIBUTION TOUR." Next thing I know, I'm in goddam British Columbia, making plans to set a few of the Royal Canadian Mace Police on fire, pop on down to Seattle try to get all of my Micro$not setup disks replaced (why are the setup disks all make out of rice paper?), and set the final plans for your virtual chainsaw deletion in motion within the ranks of the Circle of Eunuchs-Redmond Chapter. Next on The LIST (TM) was stopping in at Tacoma and Portland and ringing a few AP Bells to bring in the New Year with a pocketful of Ha$hCa$h, and then continuing my Bombed Blitzkrieg with a Budweiser Battle in the Bay, gathering the nerve for a frontal assault on Mayonaisse Mountain with A Nuclear Device To Be Named Later. To make a long story short, I woke up on Gomez's doorstep down in Berzerkeley, with a hangover, a dog, a huge fucking moose bone, the flu (or perhaps just a touch of The Potato Famine), and no fucking ChainSaw. What is even worse is that I don't seem to be in possession of even the few meager munitions I always have packed and ready for emergency situations, but I *do* have some rather vague memories of the last week that seem to match the newsclippings on my dash in regard to a trail of ugly little incidents coinciding with the times and dates on the gas receipts stapled to them. At first, I assumed that my inability to recall any details in regard to several of the incidents was a good sign, but a physical inventory of my vehicle seems to provide substance to the growing thought that the circumstantial evidence against me outweighs the loss of memory from the alcoholic delerium tremors. I seem to have my Opus SparCard II stuff from my pal at ASIX, which would confirm the vandalism in Seattle. I've got payout tickets from the casino in Lake County, which means the clipping about the flash bomb in Vallejo needs to be burned almost immediately. I was convinced that I would be able to maintain deniability for the torching by the Dumbarton bridge, until I realized that the Master Tapes for "My Way or the Highway" and "Please! Stop Me Before I Sing Again" must have been picked up from Arcal, in Redwood City. I have no fucking idea whose butt that is sticking out of the shallow grave in my sister's back yard, but since it has my name tatto'd on it, I assume I'll be on a backroad headed toward Canada very, very shortly. Anyway, I suppose it is proper serial killer etiquette to provide a legitimate death threat once my travel plans back to CanuckLand are in place, so I will try to drop one in the email on the return trip. Actually, you should probably invite all of the major players from the Corporate Micro$not Ba$hing Bowl (TM) by Ralphie, et al, to your place for a "Peace Conference" during my return trip, and then spend most of your time in the underground bunker playing cards with the Reptilian Nazi's, or something. To tell the truth, I'd just as soon snuff those whining fuckers on this trip, anyway, and Seattle's a nice town, so I wouldn't mind making an extra trip in the future, anyway. Shit! I just remembered that TeddyK's trial is in Sacramento, not Vallejo. I probably ought to do this shit when I'm sober. Hell, I might end up actually hitting my target, for a change, instead of just another in a series of random, innocent bystanders. I think this potato salad's starting to go bad...which container did I put the rincin in? Shit...I'd better go put some alcohol in my system, just in case... TootMonger "Smoking Prudentially since 1991."

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Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:11:44 -0800 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News > There have been reliable reports, from several kinds of sources, that AMD's > Fab 25 in Austin is yielding only a handful of workingn (at speed) K6s per > 8-inch wafer, versus well over 100 working (at full rated speed, > importantly) Pentium IIs (and variamts) devices per 8-inch wafer. Intel is > running at a nearly perfect yield rate (most die are functional, a very > nice position to be in, and a very hard one to arrange). > Intel also has about an order of magnitude more clean room space capable of > making the Pentia (and Merced and Gunnison, etc.) than AMD has in Fab 25. >From my contacts at AMD and personal experience working on the Semiconductor Technology program through Austin Community College 2 years ago I would have to agree with these claims. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Batch RSA for stego data
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Problem: Suppose there is a source of data which looks like random noise but which contains embedded messages. This may be a subliminal channel in a crypto protocol, steganographically embedded data, or even a simple message pool where you want to disguise what key each message is for. How do you scan and identify messages for you? Solution: Extract bits as appropraite, apply whatever selection rules are necessary to pull them out of the stego'd data or other source. Some fraction of what results is messages for you, the remainder is noise or messages for someone else, which will be indistinguishable. Method 1: For finding messages sent by someone you have communicated with previously. Use shared secret data to flag the message. Method 1A: each time you send a message, include (in the encrypted portion) a 64-bit random value which will be used to flag the next message to them. Prepend the encrypted message with the 64 bit random value from the previous message. Each person keeps a list of the next random value to be expected from each communicant. The extracted data can be easily scanned to see if it matches anything on the list. Method 1B: use shared secret data and a sequence number to calculate a hash which will be used to flag the next message sent. This can be used to calculate the flag value to be expected for the next message from each sender, which can be compared against each potential message. For both methods 1A and 1B, once the message is recognized a shared secret key is used to decrypt the remainder of the data past the flag portion. The shared secret key can be changed after each message using similar techniques to changing the flags. (Safety tip: don't make the shared secret key the same as the flag value.) Method 2: For finding messages sent by someone you have never communicated with previously. Method 2A: Sender encrypts a low-entropy flag message with receiver's public key, pads it so it looks like random noise, and puts that at the start of each message. Receiver decrypts the beginning of each message using his private key, looking to see if the results are low entropy. When such a message is detected the secret key for decrypting the remainder of the message can be embedded in the low-entropy portion. Method 2B: Like 2A, but use Fiat's "Batch RSA" to decrypt multiple messages in one batch. Recipient publishes his public key with multiple legal exponents (say, the first 16 primes). Sender encrypts his low-entropy message choosing one of the encryption exponents at random. He checks to see if the low bits of the encryption output match the index of the encryption exponent (e.g. if the 7th encryption exponent was chosen then the low order 4 bits should hold the value 7). He repeatedly encrypts with different random padding until he finds an encrypted form which properly encodes the exponent. Receiver batches messages together such that the low order 4 bits of each message in the batch are different, and applies the Batch RSA decryption to try decrypting each message. As before the receiver looks to see if the result is low entropy. For both 2A and 2B it may be possible to do the decryption using only one of the two RSA primes, if the encrypted data was smaller than that prime value. (This idea comes from Shamir.) Even if not, the Batch RSA algorithm can be applied separately for the two primes and then the results combined at the end for each message via the CRT, as is often done for RSA decryption.

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Germany not so worried about Gestapo wiretaps now
by David Honig 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There are several examples of sacrificing liberty for security in a G7 country in the article below. Also the justification of "getting in line with other countries" is used for allowing civilian SIGINT practices previously banned. Thursday January 8 11:32 AM EST Germany to Restore Surveillance BONN, Germany (Reuters) - German political leaders agreed Thursday to allow police to bug apartments of suspected criminals, restoring a crime-fighting tool banned since abuses by the secret police in the Nazi era. Leaders from Chancellor Helmut Kohl's center-right coalition and the opposition Social Democrats (SPD) said they had reached a deal allowing police to plant microphones in private homes of suspected criminals for the first time since 1945. Both houses of parliament are now expected to quickly pass the long-debated measure, which police have argued was needed to better fight organized crime and bring the country in line with other nations that allow electronic surveillance. Germany, which reacted to the Gestapo's abuses with some of the Western world's most extensive civil liberties laws, has long resisted any relaxation in constitutional protections that have kept police out of private homes. Interior Minister Manfred Kanther said the agreement would give police the necessary tool to fight organized crime. "This is a decisive step toward more effectively fighting crime," Kanther said. "We can now keep surveillance on suspected gangster apartments and we will be able to better fight money laundering." The opposition SPD, which controls the upper house of parliament, the Bundesrat, said it would support the measure after the government agreed to partial exemptions for some professional groups such as priests, attorneys and journalists. Police will be required to obtain advance court permission for any surveillance. Previously, police were only given rare exemptions to the constitutional law protecting the private home. They were allowed to use listening devices or electronic surveillance only with court permission if there was concrete evidence that a serious crime was about to take place. Now authorities will have the power to use eavesdropping methods far more extensively and will also for the first time be able to bug apartments after a crime has been committed to obtain evidence. Germany's post-war constitution barred police from electronic surveillance, telephone taps and intercepting mail. The bans on telephone taps and mail intercepts were relaxed in the 1970s amid a wave of left-wing guerrilla attacks. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig(a)otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA

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SSL DLL's?
by Adam Tuliper 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anyone know if there is a SSL winsock type control out there and what the name of it is? Thanks,... Adam

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