December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

(no subject)
by burn81＠hotmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Senate Hearings on PCCIP
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks to Peter Neumann and David Wagner, we offer a transcript of Senate hearings on PCCIP, including statements on encryption: http://jya.com/pccip-hear.htm (71K)

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Re: Matters of Law
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: >I expect the Paladin Press case will go to the Supreme Court now. I hope it >does, at least. And it'll be interesting to see if the ACLU supports a >politically incorrect case like this. A reminder that the consitutional issues of "Hit Man" and similar cases are reviewed in the Department of Justice's April 1997 report to Congress, "The Availability of Bombmaking Information, and the Extent to Which Its Dissemination May Be Subject to Regulation Consistent with the First Amendment to the United States Consitution": http://jya.com/abi.htm (196K)

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Re: Matters of Law
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>It is often claimed (here, too) that "anyone may sue." This is true. Just >pay a filing fee, etc., and anyone can sue. Alice can sue Bob because he is >reading "War and Peace." I can sue Suzie because I didn't like the color of >the dress she wore. And so on, so the theory goes. YMMV, depending on locality. Some places require a lawyer to certify that the lawsuit has (in hir opinion) at least a reasonable chance of succeeding. That may not apply in small claims court, tho. >(And the courts have even taken steps against those who have filed many >frivolous lawsuits with the apparent intent of harassment. ) They can go after the aforementioned lawyers for this, too. One of Scientology's lawyers, Helena ("The Kobra") Kobrin, has been sanctioned for filing frivolous lawsuits on behalf of that cult.

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1st Ammendment Tossed in Paladin Case
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Ruling that the right to a free press doesn't cover a how-to-kill book, a federal appeals panel said the families of a hired killer's victims may sue the publisher of a book that he consulted. A three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denied First Amendment protection to ``Hit Man: A Technical Manual for Independent Contractors,'' saying publisher Paladin Press knew it would be used by murderers. ``The Supreme Court has never protected as abstract advocacy speech so explicit in its palpable entreaties to violent crime,'' the panel said in its ruling Monday. The book was sold to James Edward Perry, who was convicted of killing Mildred Horn; her disabled 8-year-old son, Trevor; and the son's nurse, Janice Saunders, in Silver Spring, Md., in 1993. The women were shot between the eyes and the boy's respirator was unplugged. Perry is on death row for the murders, and Lawrence T. Horn, Mrs. Horn's former husband, was sentenced to life in prison for hiring Perry. Horn's motive was to collect $1.7 million from a malpractice settlement that his son Trevor won from a hospital after the accident that left him a quadriplegic. Paladin has never challenged Perry's claim that he followed some of the 130-page paperback's advice. ``This decision says that if you're in the business of helping instruct murderers on how to slaughter innocent women and children, you aren't going to find any shelter in the First Amendment,'' said Howard Siegel, an attorney for the families. Paladin Press, based in Boulder, Colo., plans to ask the full 4th Circuit to review the panel's decision and will seek a Supreme Court review if necessary, said Lee Levine, the publisher's attorney. The appeals court ''did not sufficiently take into account the First Amendment implications of holding the publisher of a book legally responsible for actions of someone reading the book,'' Levine said. The lawsuit was supported by victim rights groups, while The Washington Post Co., The New York Times Co. and other media organizations filed briefs supporting Paladin's position. In 1996, U.S. District Judge Alexander Williams ruled that the victims' families could not hold Paladin liable because of the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech. The appeals panel sent the case back to Williams for trial. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Young wrote: WSJ reports today on the increasing conservatism of the military and disputes about the pretense of civilian control, with some officers calling for responsible action to compensate for societal breakdown. It cites several examples of military members preparing for war at home, as mentioned here earlier by Attila and others, with two Marine writers claiming that the next Somolia will be here. This, coupled with reports on LEA inheritance of military equipment and lavish civilian funding to fight terrorism, portends more than Jim Bell (Tim May?) -type sniper takeouts. Free fire zones may be in the offing, or surgical wasting of underground bunkers and germmakers (troublemakers). Wrathful Mars sees no innocents, so preaches the terrorist freedom warfighters pursuing a dream of winner take all, so sorry constitutional fundies, we're the warmonger biz. ----end quote Evidently they assume a one sided strategy. Wrathful Mars has little memory of recent history.

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Tygar cracks SET (was Re: Freeware SET?)
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 2:11 pm -0500 on 11/9/97, Donald E. Eastlake 3rd wrote: > The SET reference implementation was written only with a concern for protocol > correctness and essentially no concern for operational usability. It is not > clear to me that a product could be based on it without a lot of additonal > work. But I suppose it might be useful for hacking... At Doug Tygar's talk at Harvard last week, he claimed to have found a way to crack it. I, um, forgot to press him on this. Has anyone heard about this, or what it might be? Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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No Subject
by bureau42 Anonymous Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

nospam-seesignature(a)ceddec.com writes: > I believe in separation of church and state. The state must get out of > things like education and welfare (charity) and other things that are not > their responsibility. > > The mistake was when the courts ruled that prayer could not occur in > public (government) schools. The very next day, every government school > should have been closed down (this would also have shown the court that it > should be careful with its rulings). And society would not have > experienced as much decay as it has. Amen! I remember when as a young teacher I used to lead my third grade class in our daily devotional to Ba'al and Ishtar. It got everyone off to a good start and kept us grounded in proper moral values throughout the school day. (Of course every year there was some small group of malcontent parents pissing and moaning about this and wanting me to lead the class in Christian prayers! Can you imagine?) Society just hasn't been the same since. Everything's going to hell in a hand basket. -- Ba'al-Boy

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(Fwd) Gotta love the Supreme Court
by Jim Burnes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Whew.. Well I hope we don't have to depend on the Supreme Court for further privacy decisions..... > >U.S. High Court Denies Strip-Search Appeal > > By James Vicini > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Supreme Court let stand Monday a ruling > that public school officials did not violate clearly established > constitutional privacy rights by twice strip-searching two girls in > the second grade. > > The justices left intact a U.S. appeals court ruling that the > officials may be guilty of "questionable judgment," but could not be > held liable for money damages for an unconstitutional search of the > 8-year-old girls. > > The case began May 1, 1992, when a teacher and a school counselor in > Talladega, Ala., conducted the strip-searches after a classmate > reported $7 missing from her purse. > > Another classmate accused one of the girls, Cassandra Jenkins, of > stealing the money and putting it in the backpack of the other girl, > Oneika McKenzie. No money was found in the backpack. > > The two girls were taken to a restroom and told by music teacher > Susannah Herring to remove their clothes. They were told to come out > of the toilet stalls with their underpants down to their ankles, which > they did. > > No money was found on the girls or in their clothing. After a trip to > the principal's office, the girls were taken by Herring and guidance > counselor Melba Simon back to the restroom for another, unsuccessful > strip-search. > > The parents of the two girls sued for damages under the civil rights > laws, alleging violations of their constitutional right to be free > from unreasonable searches. > > A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit. A divided appeals court in > June upheld the decision, ruling that the teacher and counselor enjoyed > partial immunity from the constitutional claim. > > The appeals court said that in 1992 the law involving searches of > students at school had not been sufficiently developed to place the > educators on notice that their conduct was constitutionally > impermissible. > > The Supreme Court in a 1985 ruling gave school administrators greater > flexibility to search students, but said they still have a legitimate > right to privacy and added that the search cannot be "excessively > intrusive." > > Attorneys for the two girls appealed to the Supreme Court, arguing > that the appeals court decision conflicted with the 1985 precedent. > They said the appeals court decision sent the wrong message to > "school officials nationwide." > > They said school authorities may strip-search students to prevent > imminent danger from the possession of weapons or illegal drugs, but > they may not use intrusive searches for "the most minor suspected > infractions." > > The attorneys said Supreme Court guidance was urgently needed on the > extent of constitutional constraints on strip-searches in schools. > > Attorneys for the teacher and the counselor urged that the appeal be > denied, saying the appeals court correctly decided the case. The > Supreme Court turned down the appeal without any comment or dissent. > "THE BILL OF RIGHTS: Void where prohibited by law." jim

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Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert Hettinga wrote: >So, my overall point is, Tim, that you shouldn't try so hard to be a crash >test dummy for the new world order. Throwing rocks at cop cars is great fun >when you're say, 12, but doing it when you're 40 can do bad things to your >permanent physical health in rather short order. Revolution is really a >young man's game. I mean, even the IRA guys want to retire... ..................................................... Not to cut into Tim's War here, but Bob - The Truth is everybody's "game". If a person is content with a lot of nonsenical static on their connection to Reality, it's their decision if they wish to tolerate it - and it's true they could leave it to someone else (younger? wiser? more courageous? better equipped?) to take up the cause of cleaning it up. It is also true that one can create around oneself a Reality full of monsters and tigers and bears (oh, my!), totally leaving out the rest of the functioning elements in the actual context of the given circumstance. A person could focus so exclusively on the evil which permeates the social atmosphere, that they miss out on the opportunities available for achieving improvements by normal, rational, peaceful means. (I read once that Steve Jobs, during his Eastern Mystic Religion phase and his trips to India and such, realized that the introduction of and advancement in certain innovative, industrial tools had done more for the cause of civilization than any other efforts - political, religious, or otherwise - to improve it. When he went home he kept this in his philosophical file as he went forth with his ideas on a computer which would "change the world". And he did have some very positive, revolutionary effects on artists everywhere. :>) ) Perhaps you mean that *violent* revolution is best left for the young. But you must acknowledge that the situation *could* get really bad, as bad as he imagines. It may not be wise to threaten the mad dogs into aggression, but there is value in publically identifying the fundamental poisoning of the intellectual air we are breathing; there is no reason to forfeit ground for the sake of the delicate sensibilities of predators in sheep's clothing. Tim being so fortified with guns & ammo, he may feel more free than anyone to speak fearlessly (carelessly?). Of course, it's easier to display courage when your defenses are established & strong (and he does sound like a hammer looking for a nail). .. Blanc

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Re: 1st Ammendment Tossed in Paladin Case
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > At 9:42 AM -0700 11/11/97, Eric Cordian wrote: > >A three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denied > >First Amendment protection to ``Hit Man: A Technical Manual for > >Independent Contractors,'' saying publisher Paladin Press knew it > >would be used by murderers. > > > >The book was sold to James Edward Perry, who was convicted of killing > >Mildred Horn; her disabled 8-year-old son, Trevor; and the son's > >nurse, Janice Saunders, in Silver Spring, Md., in 1993. The women were > >shot between the eyes and the boy's respirator was unplugged. > Having skimmed the "Hit Man" book, I can tell you it conveyed no unique > information about how to shoot someone between the eyes and unplug a > respirator. If I recall correctly, it suggests the back of the neck/head as the Miss Murderer proper point of entry for small projectiles. The instructions on how to build a silencer were very useful, but neglected to mention that being smart enough to follow the instructions didn't necessarily mean you were smart enough to use it properly. A word of advice...if you forget to take the steel rod used to align the silencer out of the barrel before you use it, it stings like a bitch when you shoot. > If this Paladin case is not overturned, it will mean the "death through > lawsuits" of nearly all publishers of even slightly controversial material. > Loompanics will go, Delta Press will go, etc. "Unintended Consequences" > will be withdrawn by the publisher and the author will be sued. "The Turner > Diaries" will become a contraband item. I wonder if any kids reading the Bible have murdered big guys by using a slingshot? Sounds like a case for censorship, to me. > And why not sue other publishers and bookstores? Maybe a book on abortions > helped a woman perform an illegal abortion. Maybe a book about fighting for > liberty provided "abstract advocacy speech so explicit in its palpable > entreaties to violent crime" (and so it is unprotected, according to the > courts). Perhaps the British could launch a class-action suit against the author of the Star-Spangled Banner, and have it banned. They could use Jimi Hendrix's Woodstock version to work the jury into an emotional frenzy against it as an anthem for drug-addicted freaks. > But in many ways, this is good news. The war is coming faster than I thought. <muffled explosions in the background> > The judge in this case has committed a capital crime. Better have our fearless leader, Jim Bell, convene a Melatonin People's Court, immediately. (The rest of you guys signed and returned the 'secret oath' that Jim sent last week, too, didn't you?) :: B o o t s

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Re: WARNING: Serious Pentium Bug
by bureau42 Anonymous Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ray Arachelian wrote: > On Sat, 8 Nov 1997, [iso-latin-de] Heinz-Jürgen Keller wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > The german Chaos Computer Club distributes a Dos/Win binary (f00fc7c8.com, > > 5 Bytes :-) ) and a linux version. > > Have a look at http://www.ccc.de . > So has anyone yet developed an ActiveX component of this? :) Heheheh... > come to my site and watch your pentium crash. Heheheheheh! Jeff Sandquist? > =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== > .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. > ..\|/..|sunder(a)sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ > <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ > ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. > .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... > ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================

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Washington Post on dangers of self-censorship for the Net
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[The Washington Post has it right. This is what many civil libertarians have been warning about for months: the industry and some advocacy groups (who should know better -- http://www.netparents.org/summit_part.html) are falling over themelves in a rush to label, sort, and filter. They hope to stave off a CDA II. But their frantic scurrying is "voluntary" only in the sense that "voluntary" is newspeak for the threat of government censorship. --Declan] ***************** The Washington Post November 10, 1997 EDITORIAL; Pg. A20 'Self-Regulation' and the Net CLOSE WATCHERSs of the long-running TV ratings fight could read it as a series of tussles over exactly how far the government can go in pushing the proprietors of an expressive medium -- such as TV -- to curb that expression through "voluntary" action. When do carrot-and-stick become just stick? That story isn't over yet: Congress, though antsy, has so far managed to stay on the safe side of the line that separates pressure from outright censorship, and the different responses of different networks is ironic proof that the policy isn't completely coercive. But those who want to see yet more variations on the theme can watch the whole pattern play out again in White House efforts to encourage self-regulation on the Internet. The administration, after coming to grief over its dogged support for the unconstitutional Communications Decency Act, now takes the position that it's up to software providers, parents and citizen groups to make the Internet safe for children, though the government has a beefed-up role to play in enforcing existing laws in cyberspace, for instance, those against child pornography, stalking or harassment. As an accompaniment, though, it is putting considerable public pressure on Internet players to develop a system of ratings and "taggings" for sites that would allow parents to sort Internet access by a few broadly agreed-upon categories. In a July announcement of steps taken by several large software companies to include "family-friendly" sorting features in their browsers, the president emphasized the importance of law enforcement and parental involvement alike in making sure "we do not allow pornographers and pedophiles to exploit a wonderful medium to abuse our children." The vice president, praising the various filters on the market, called them "safety belts for children traveling the Information Superhighway" -- though surely he's the only person who still calls it that. Last week, though, Ira Magaziner, the administration point-person on Net issues, took a different tone in a speech to Internet advertisers. The "tremendous economic benefits" of the Net won't work, he said, "if we don't get efficient industry self-regulation on issues like privacy and content. . . . If you fail, we will have to go the legislative route. That gets caught up in the political process and will be less rational and efficient." Well, yes -- and also less legal. Don't get us wrong: Self-restraint, in some of these cases, is a pretty good place for the providers of what's now called "content" to end up. But the line between urging self-restraint and threatening government censorship is a thin one. The White House, no less than Congress, needs to watch its step.

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Re: Databasix conspiracy theories
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Andy Dustman wrote: > Note that these comments apply primarily to the cracker remailer. > On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, Anonymous wrote: > > Perhaps the next wave of attacks on remailers will not consist of > > attempts to shut them down altogether but to progressively cripple them > > by getting certain features disabled, one by one. This seems to have > > already started. The strategy seems to be to fabricate a form of > > "abuse", anonymously through remailers, for which the seemingly > > "logical" solution is to disable a certain feature. This has already > > proven successful with header pasting, for example. Now you can't post > > to Usenet and set the From: address to that of your own 'nym. I think this has not only "already started," but is already reaping exactly the results intended. The remailer attacks are very similar to age-old methods of censorship and control by government and society. Those who define the 'problem' have taken a large step toward directing/controlling the 'solution.' The 'final solution' to remailer spam is to host it @dev.null, but then you end up with a sick, twisted entity like the TruthMailer. <sounds of CypherPunks screaming in anguish, as they slash their wrists> > > If the "camel" can get his nose under the tent and convince operators > > to start filtering on the *CONTENT* of the Subject: line or body of > > usenet posts, the anti-privacy nuts will have scored a major victory. > > In fact, from reading Jeff Burchell's posts, it looks like Gary and his > > DataBasux-ers had initially convinced Jeff to do exactly that. But, in > > a symbolic victory for freedom of speech, he removed those filters for a > > week before he finally shut down Huge Cajones altogether. "If I make the Subject: line, "Make $$$ Fast," then the person who I am anonymously ratting out for murder/molestation is not likely to read it, if there is a copy automatically saved somewhere by the software." My point being that a remailer operator has no way of knowing what the ultimate effect of *any* filtering/blocking will be. (Unless you read all of the email, like I do as the 'Bad Remailer' operator.) > Cracker does have a spam-bait mangler which is somewhat simpler than the > scheme Jeff used. In a nutshell, if there are an inordinately large number > of addresses (compared to other text), the addresses are mangled, i.e., > president(a)whitehouse.gov becomes president <AT> whitehouse <DOT> gov. > Still human-readable but useless for address harvesters. No posts get > dropped or filtered out under this scheme, and no keywords or particular > addresses are looked for. PLATITUDE WARNING!!! "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that your original objective was to drain the swamp." It has been my experience that the 'Fear of Spam/Abuse' is beginning to be the controlling factor in the usefulness, or lack thereof, of an increasing number of remailers. In my opinion, any form of blocking/filtering which is not described in the remailer-help documentation defeats much of the purpose of providing remailer service in the first place. In particular, the very fact that people become confused as to what is, or is not, 'acceptable' use of a remailer tends to lead to a decline in their use. Increasingly, as well, the knowledge that vaguely described filtering/blocking is being done by the remailer leads one to become confused as to what is an unacceptable 'method' of using a remailer. I cannot help but feel that there has to be some simple ways of addressing the spam/abuse issue without making the remailers a hit and miss proposition for the average computer user. e.g. - A stated policy of allowing only 'X' number of emails from the same address/ISP per day--UCE spammers *could* work around this, but they make money by speed and volume, not by farting around with this-and-that. This would immediately eliminate the spammers who are only capable of hitting the return key on their spamming software, leaving the operator free to take specific actions against anyone who does take the time and trouble to circumvent the policy. And someone who has gone to all of that trouble, only to get an email saying, "It didn't work.", is likely to move on to greener pastures fast. What I am getting at is that all an operator really needs to do to eliminate volume-abuse/spamming is to make it 'difficult' for those spamming, not 'impossible.' Remember that the UCE spammers need to send *millions* of emails to survive. When spam became a problem, I joined an anti-spam list and a UCE spammers list. Serious spammers do the same. I think it is important to take the time to *notify* those who you are filtering/blocking, even if it means searching their messages for an email or snailmail contact point. Remember that one reason these people send out the volume they do is that they *need* volume to survive. If you don't notify them that their time and resources are *wasted* by using your remailer, then they will have no reason not to drop you as a route for their spam. I used to see people on the UCE/Spam list bragging about how they were sending 10,000 emails a day through 'X', and 'Y' and 'Z', and then see sysadmins/operators at 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' posting to the anti-spam list, complaining, "I'm spending all of my time dumping 10,000 emails a day from some asshole." I believe that remailer operators should provide examples/details of how any filtering/blocking policy is instituted, in order to inform those who wish to use the remailer, and to discourage those who want to abuse your policy. Subject and Content filtering are a never-ending merry-go-round in which you block "Make $$$ Fast," <including my own spam-spoofs "Make $$$ Fast at Home, Licking Your Own Dick!!!">, and the spammers switch the Subject: line to "In Reply To Your Email." <you all know the drill...> If an operator wishes to block whitehouse.gov from abuse by psychotic child-molesting, terrorist CypherPunks (like yourselves), then it should be stated plainly in the remailer-help, for the youngster who mistakenly thinks they have sent a plea for help to the whitehouse, or another .gov site, or an AOL site, or whoever you use your policy to block. I know the problems faced by those providing public remailer services, and I appreciate the efforts/problems of the operators. I help people running private remailers for specific groups needing privacy and security, and it is still not a piece of cake. My problem is in many ways the opposite of many remailer operators. I have people who sometimes need to send out several hundred emails to people in a manner where they can reply anonymously, and have run into filtering/blocking problems which seemed to change randomly, at times. So I can sympathize with those who have few computer skills and give up on remailers because "...they don't seem to work." My concern is that efforts toward total abuse-security will result in the same convuluted dysfunctionality that results from those seeking total privacy-security (without ever achieving that, either). Blocking/Filtering == Censorship! I recognize the need for each remailer operator to set their policy according to their own individual situation, as it may be better to allow threatening letters to legislators only one day a week than not to provide the service at all, but I think it is important to make it as clear as possible what the policy is, and how it is instituted, so that remailers can be more than just toys for the computer literate. I also think that the remailer-help sent out should contain some way for a potential user to bypass remailer policy, if necessary. e.g. - "I run a suicide support list and need to send/receive several hundred emails sometimes. Please reply to me at the *real* address I am providing, as to whether you can allow me to send that many per day through your system." Blocking/Filtering == Censorship! Certainly there are those who seek to invent newer and better forms of 'abuse' in an attempt to exercise disruptive power over the remailer operator, but it has been my experience that those who engage in those activities in order to fight perceived 'hypocrisy/censorship' are much more likely to target those who do not clearly explain their policies and the reasons behind them, as well as asking for feedback from those who disagree, or think they have a better idea. There will always be those who attack remailers who have a policy of 'censoring' life-threatening letters to legislators, or 'censoring' pictures of Mickey butt-fucking Minnie addressed to children's lists. What is important to remember is that they have a right to their view, and to push the envelope, or yank your string, or whatever. As a remailer operator, it is *your* role to enforce whatever policy you personally believe in (or need to institute in order to survive as a remailer). It is also your burden to bear, to figure out how to do so without negating the goals that have inspired you to offer the service, in the first place. Personally, I think that remailers are one of the most important remaining providers of tools supporting freedom of speech/communication on the InterNet. I and many others appreciate the service much more than is apparent from the ratio of thank you's to fuck you's that you receive, so you should all give yourselves a couple million pats on the back. (Except for those greedy assholes at Cracker...and the Commies who run Replay...and the Mountie Jackboots running Jam...and the Godless anarchists at bureau42...and all those operators sucking John Gilmore's cock..and......

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"Lynch mob mentality" at Senate violent music hearing
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*************** [Forwarded with permission. --Declan] Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 11:53:02 -0500 From: Nina Crowley <crowleyn(a)ultranet.com> Subject: Senate hearing summary Hi, This is really long but I think everyone should get a sense of the lynch mob mentality in last weeks Senate subcommittee hearing. Senate Subcommittee Hearing Senator Sam Brownbacks subcommittee hearing on the possible effect of music violence on society was a major disaster for music and freedom of expression. The hearing, held on Nov.6, for 2 hours, had a very restricted list of speakers. For the two weeks previous to the hearing I and many others applied to testify and were denied. Brownbacks staff member in charge of overseeing the panels was Cherie Harder. (Ms. Harder appeared in the Oct. 19 MTV special "Fight for the Right" representing Empower America.) Ms. Harder was doggedly dedicated to preserving the short and biased list of speakers, refusing to consider additional speakers or an extended hearing time allotment. Senator Brownback (who on Wednesday seemed open to exploring the issue) took a totally different tack in his opening statement. He outlined societys current ills including a jump in teen suicide, pregnancy, crime, and drug use. He talked of a "sense that we have lost ground" (in the war against teens perhaps? nc) and that society has grown "coarser, meaner, and more alienated". He reports that "there has been a marked increase in explicit violence and misogyny in popular music". (Sen. Brownback offered no reference to statistics which support any of these statements. His stated belief that "research, debate and discussion" were needed was certainly not carried out in this biased and, it seemed at times, rehearsed condemnation of popular music. nc) He said "The most appropriate place to begin that inquiry is with the music itself." (It is astounding that he could make this statement after refusing requests from several major recording artists over the previous two weeks! nc) He cited the songs "Mo Thugs" or "Slap a Ho" by Dove Shack and shock rockers Marilyn Manson and Cannibal Corpse as examples of problem songs and artists. (These are the same songs and artists that were attacked by C. Delores Tucker, Wm. Bennett, Sen Lieberman, and Sen. Nunn in May of 1996. Can you cite a rise in violence in music if you dont take the time to listen to new artists? nc) Sen. Brownback went on to quote a Carnegie Foundation study (these are the same people speaker Dr. Stanley Roberts wrote for in 1990) which shows teens spending less time with their parents and more time listening to music. He ended with saying that "it stands to reason that prolonged exposure to such hate-filled lyrics . . . could have an effect on ones attitudes, assumptions, . . . decisions, and behavior. Understanding the nature and extent of the influence of music violence may well be the first step . . . for ensuring a more civil society." Senator Joseph Lieberman was the first to testify. His testimony began here and continued from the dais. At the conclusion of his testimony he took his seat next to Senator Brownback on the subcommittee and preceded every question to a panelist with another 3 or 4 minutes further outlining his beliefs. He effectively manipulated the situation to provide himself with 2 hours worth of pontificating and captive media attention. He spoke of our "broken culture", our "surreal, Alice-in-Wonderland" culture in which kids our better armed than police, we celebrate brazen luminaries like Dennis Rodman, and "dont seem to blink when prominent corporate citizens sell music to our children that celebrates violence". He cited tv shows like Foxs "When Animals Attack" and video games like "Postal", and advertisers like Calvin Klein as perverse and degrading. (He also mentioned the songs Brownback did but spelled Ho wrong.nc) He wants to take a close look at gangsta rap, stating that rappers celebrate murder and mayhem on their cds then live it on the streets which led to Tupacs and B.I.G.s deaths. He also outlined FBI investigations of Death Row as evidence of the kind of people who produce this music. He, as did every one of the speakers said Im not "talking about censorship". He wants corporate responsibility on the part of recording companies, particularly Seagrams and Sony, adoption of basic standards for music, Seagrams to "dump" Marilyn Manson, and said "In the meantime, I hope the RIAA will consider improving its one-size-fits-all labeling system". I urge you to go to Liebermans website at: http://www.senate.gov/member/ct/lieberman/releases/r110697c.html to read his statement in its entirety. The next speaker was Mr. Raymond Kuntz of Burlington, ND. He tearfully related the story of his sons suicide. When his wife went to wake their son for school they found him dead of a gunshot wound, still wearing his headphones with Marilyn Mansons Anti-Christ Superstar cd still in the player. The boys favorite song was "The Reflecting God", the lyrics to which were included in Mr. Kuntz packet. He also included,(and entered into the record) an interview with Marilyn from the June 96 issue of High Times. Mr. Kuntz, in his statement called MM a "drug fiend" who publicly uses drugs and, who takes LSD and then goes to Disney World. He reported that MM, during his shows has exposed his genitalia, sodomized himself with a stick which he then threw into the crowd, and asks fans to spit on him. (Keep in mind here that after each testimony, Sen. Lieberman would repeat and expound on the most "heinous" anti-music facts in each presentation. After this one he shook his head and said something like ~imagine asking people to spit on you in this time of Aids~. nc) Dr. Frank Palumbo, of the American Academy of Peditarics, is a practicing pediatrician from Washington DC. He referred to the AAP Committee on Communications policy statements of December 1989 and 1995 as the official statements of the Academy. (new paragraph in his statement - does this mean that what follows are his thoughts, not the thoughts of the Academy - its not clear. nc) He acknowledged the importance of music in a teens identity. He outlined the increase in violence, drugs, and sex in rock music over the past four decades citing heavy metal and rap as being of greatest concern. He quoted lyrics from Nine Inch Nails "Big Man with a Gun" and some MM lyrics as examples. He reports that "To date, no studies have documented a cause-and-effect relationship between sexually explicit or violent lyrics and adverse behavioral effects. But we can all acknowledge the overall effect music has on people." (!?) He stated that music videos may have a significant behavioral impact by desensitizing violence and reported that music videos by Guns-N-Roses and Beastie Boys videos each had 36 violent episodes in performing just one song. (And, back to that war against teens, nc) he referred to a report entitled "Kids These Days: What Americans Really Think About the Next Generation" which decried sex and violence but reported that "only half of those surveyed (49%) think pressuring the entertainment industry . . . will be a very effective way to help kids" and that "perhaps people doubt that the industry will be responsive to public pressure". Dr. Palumbo ended his testimony with a list of recommendations one of which was for the "music industry to develop and apply a system of specific content labeling regarding violence, sex, drugs, or offensive lyrics,". Hilary Rosen, President of the RIAA was the next to testify. Before beginning she entered into the record Mass. M.I.C.s anti-censorship petition directed at Sen. Lieberman among others, containing 7836 sigs. by young people across the country. She also mentioned presenting introducing statements by musicians although I never saw evidence of them. In spite of extensive research in preparation for this hearing Hilary was astoundingly ill prepared. The message by the RIAA in the days preceding the hearing was that pro-music pro-speech forces should try not to upset the Senators. In spite of obvious anti-music sentiments expressed by committee members in meetings previous to the hearing, the RIAA underestimated the seriousness of the attack and was not prepared to push back. Hilary was asked for sales figures for MMs cd and others and "had no idea", when asked for demographic information about purchasers of this and other cds she also had "no idea". Sen. Brownback reiterated those questions several times and was obviously angry that she either didnt know or was hiding something. Hilarys statement began with references to Elvis and teen suicide references in "Romeo and Juliet" (Brownback said he felt it was insulting to even compare MM to Shakespeare.nc) Hilary expressed the industrys concern and gave examples of musicians working to combat teen violence, sex, drug use etc. She cited Heavy D, Ice Cube, and Queen Latifah. (However, RIAA, chose not to facilitate the participation of a prominent rap artist in presenting his concerns to the Senators. Even though they cite his contributions among these others in their research materials.nc) Hilary went on to describe the Musicians Assistance Program and "our"(?) Rock The Vote campaign. She said that "by no means" are our "artists perfect" and reported that there were scenes from Chain Saw Massacre or NYPD Blue that she would not let a 10 yr. old see. She then reported on the "parental advisory sticker" program and said that "We support efforts to have retailers restrict sales of albums to consumers under the age of 17."!!!! (~This is exactly the issue that got me into the fight to preserve free expression in the first place in 1995. At that time the RIAA was actively fighting cities and states that tried to enforce this kind of censorship. RIAAs attitudes seem to have changed dramatically over these two years. You have to ask yourself how damaging their attitudes toward preserving free expression could be in another 2 years! nc~) Hilary reported that in a record store with 110,000 titles, less than œ of one percent of a stores total inventory will carry a parental advisory logo. (and more than 3/4s of of those titles are by black artists - Hilary didnt say that, I did nc). (Does that mean that mean that stickered product is not meaningful or is expendable? nc) She reported that record company execs constantly make choices to not put out songs which dont meet the test of artistic credibility. (Brownback questioned her on this issue repeatedly. He managed not to say you think MM has artistic credibility but it was clearly what he was getting at.) She encouraged parents to read the lyrics to songs their kids brought home. (Brownback mentioned at one point that he wished lyrics could be printed in the paper!) Hilary also stressed that if a parent disapproves of something their kids bought the record stores would take it back. Hilary said "As long as there is an audience demanding to listen, there will be people willing to produce artists far outside the mainstream." ! (reasons for a war against teens,nc) During questioning after her prepared testimony Hilary stated music stores will not sell stickered product to those under 17, (a fact which is totally untrue and an amazingly stupid and dangerous statement on her part.nc) By the end of the hearing C. Delores Tucker produced a kid who testified as to how easy it was for kids under 17 to buy stickered product, that kids can find out on the street where they can buy - (now Hilary has managed to make stickered product look like an illegal narcotic. Shes also practically told legislators to push for mandatory labeling and restrictions! nc) (Hilary Rosen was clearly not concerned with freedom of expression or in protecting music from the attacks of these Senators. We would have fared better if she had not spoken at all.nc) The final two panelists were C. Delores Tucker and Dr. Donald F. Roberts of Stanford University. Tucker showed up with her blown up photos of Marilyn Manson and had the same inflammatory statements to make against rap and rock. Her testimony was totally unremarkable and there was nothing new (for that reason and because my fingers are about to fall off Ill not go into details. I will forward a copy of her testimony to anyone who would like one.) Unfortunately I did not get a copy of Dr. Roberts testimony. It was brief and significantly similar to Dr. Palumbos in terms of statements about musics effect on young people. Of note is the fact that Senator Lieberman welcomed Dr. Roberts by saying that he was glad to see him and that they had worked together before on these important issues. (enough said,nc). As the hearing was about to end, Ms. Tucker begged that the young boy shed brought along "all this way" have a chance to speak. Brownbacks initial response was that he couldnt allow it because so many others had asked to speak but were refused. Tucker begged a bit more and Brownback consented. The boy testified as to how easy it was to buy "stickered" cds if you were under 17 (which Brownback made sure he repeated a few times) and then the young man described the satanic fans who had invaded his neighborhood before an MM concert "doing violent stuff" like "smashing windshields." At this point Michael Eric Dyson asked from his seat, if in the interest of fairness, he be allowed to speak also. Brownback refused him. (Dyson had repeatedly sought an opportunity to appear at the hearing and Jesse Jackson had written to Brownback on his behalf asking that Dyson be heard, all to no avail). The hearing adjourned to a press conference in the hall. Speakers there were Dyson, myself, and Bill Adler. Mr. Dyson spoke eloquently on the hearings, the bias in the panels, these repeated attacks on rap, and the "mean spirited" tactic of Ms. Tucker among other things. I spoke for a couple of minutes after which Mr. Tucker pushed his way through the crowd of reporters rushing Dyson and saying he was furious at how Dyson had described his wife and that he would "die" protecting her reputation. Several people stepped in to pull Mr. Tucker back while Michael Dyson calmly stood by his previous statements. As Mr. Tucker was pulled away he pointed at Dyson saying that "the next time we meet youd better bring an extra pair of glasses, cause youre going to need them." All of this was caught on film. Security then ended the press conference. Thats pretty much what took place. A real disaster for free speech and for music. Nina Fight Censorship - Listen to the Banned! Mass. M.I.C. http://www.ultranet.com/~crowleyn/mmic.html

3 2

Re: Content controls
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:57 PM -0700 11/8/97, William H. Geiger III wrote: >Once you have given me the keys to unlock and display the data I can save >it, copy it, reproduce it and distribut it. To assume otherwise shows a >lack of understanding of computer systems and moderen OS's. Sure I would >need to write some software and jump through some hoops to do it but there >is nothing that your system can do to prevent me from doing so. Now wether >it is worth the effort to do so will depend on the value of the data >involved. Once you have given me the ability to display the data you have >lost the battle as I can do whatever I want with it. Exactly so. Once able to go into the listener's ears, the viewer's eyeballs, or the customer's whatever, the battle is basically lost. About the best that can be hoped for is to insert some "almost unnoticeable mark"--a watermark, a notch filter (a la early scheme for combatting DAT piracy), etc. And even these "almost unoticeable marks" are easily twiddled away. Unless they are so noticeable that serious image or sound distortion occurs when the marks are removed or obscured. Even purely digital works are easily copied. Even unique IDs per software piece are easily removed (e.g., by having N customers compare and diff out the noncommon bits). --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

2 1

Selling a Persistent Identity
by nobody＠neva.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- How would you sell a persistent identity with a good reputation? The obvious method of selling the secret key doesn't work because the buyer has to trust the seller not to resell it. This could be solved by revealing your True Name, but that's no fun. A nym with a good reputation for this sort of business could be used, but that wouldn't be any fun either since it could link a series of identities with one source. The only thing I can think of is to have a trusted party who creates and manages the key. When the owner of the key wants to sign something, he or she sends it to the trusted party for signing and transmission. To sell the key, the trusted party is instructed to accept the buyer's messages instead of the seller's. The buyer and the seller never actually possess the key themselves. Is there a better way to do this? Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNGi+FZaWtjSmRH/5AQFS1Qf+OPGg/JLuKVB7nab83W1Yh23woJ/om5pD VDsiawtPAcwBRZhwVfOZltuJvovT7rgU7+Jqp6tzhuD8QApY48BSi36ywz+IQnH8 tLJgGV/g1j/afalEhdaOB13LsoBpYmTLvptK296FvUXYPNYumx3e16M8hJxq8SNF 2Tm3Z+ifH0gRLJKjAhOqyG2iMqnmtIYZzmhavPz6thjrE9nKaEE2PII5T2SP9B/J sNsOJ7sjElWGlxemEGc9uR9wAKV/5qlMRRB8DOdLgcQTndjikvHU5uPb9lLYiSYc 4/nDbZNfe6W+gZj71Utm2Ubwu+x/3+fF46Db7j5e6XSrGCx+EzC7nA== =QIDm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

3 2

Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dumb of me to get in the middle of this, but the bloodlust's up: Tim's statements are gutsy and right: there's no gain in self-censoring, shading one's anger to appease the goons of whatever firepower. (Bob, go to end.) Most massive firepower can't focus on or hit exclusively small targets, that's what's a lie about "surgical" strikes. Waste the countryside, yes, hit one rabbit and not the beloved dog and fellow hunter, little chance. What it takes is sharpshooting: a one shot, one target, one pig, one sticker. True, Horushi's snipe worked, it nailed an innocent, though a couple of others died to set him up for his own nailing. True, Waco worked, it charred a crowd of innocents, though a few others got plugged setting up the roast, and the 2nd roast. True, firebombing works, as does mass weaponing --nukes, chemicals and germs -- but indiscriminately, by terrorism of the masses, at the price of also terrifying the citizenry paying for the megadeath heritage. All standoff firepower is limited against the individual by imprecision of the killing machines and cowardice of the operators -- artillery, planes, ships, satellites, take your pick. They savage territory to save the operator's ass, who, as anyone knows who been around these candyass strutters, aint got what it takes to cut the guy's throat who's stabbing your eye. What's my point? Well, for lack of a better word, it's personal courage, going nuts when the time's right, the guts to not shut the fuck up when you're told to by those who're a whole lot bigger, who've got more armaments and thinks they're smarter and more ruthless and meaner and have the troops, rank and medals to back it up. Just remember that most of those strengths are for getting somebody else or a machine to do what is too fucking terrifying to do yourself directly. Do this when the monster accosts: pull your forelock, say sorry sir, then upstab the fucker's groin, as he doubles, hack the cord, he'll go down quivering, then cut out his liver, kick up his green face, squat close, show him the blob, take a bite, chew, savor, swallow, put lip to dying ear, whisper, "tasty." Go home, get a beer, stare the tube, sharpen your tool. Or as maddog Tim sez, lock and load. But look, I'm with Bob, too, my tool's philosophy gone berzerk, trash words, wags, gags, alliterations, mouth shooting. My steel weapons are locked from burglars who scare the shit out of me just by looking like ordinarily ugly wall streeters, that is, like my maddog neighbors eyeing me for junk IPO sales. Sure glad my war's long over, happily getting dimmer, easier to forget the godawful. Hey, it's veteran's day, anybody want to croak and limp to glories past?

4 4

Re: 1st Ammendment Tossed in Paladin Case
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > In the infamous "Twenty-Nine Palms" poll of soldiers, asking if troops > would fire on civilians if ordered to carry out an order, the longer the > soldier had been in the service, the less likely he was to say he would. > (The context of this order is generally believed to be related to a > Department of Defense involvement in the wholesale disarming of the > population under a state of emergency, FEMA or U.N. orders, etc.) Note that "Twenty-Nine Palms" was the military home/liason of those involved in the INSLAW travesty. (Everyone _not_ working for the Department of Justice who can say "Fuck You" to Congress and get away with it, raise your hand.) > This is consistent with the military retireds I know being _extremely_ > anti-government. Usually with a right-wing flavor, but then that is > understandable. It is a fact that we tend to narrow our range of perception when we get involved in any cult/religion/organization and bestow some of our own innate responsibility/authority upon them. Once separated from the group, however, we then tend to regain more control over our individual beliefs and values, whereupon we are more likely to recognize where we stepped beyond or own moral/ethical values while caught up, to whatever extent, in 'group mind.' This has been discussed on the list (e.g. Declan goes to Washington!) and, thankfully, we have a weird enough assortment of not-quite-normal SubGenius Bizzaro CypherPundits to keep us pissing all over ourselves and one another to make the possibility of us becoming dues-paying members of the CypherSheeple Union a remote possibility. A CypherPunk nuking DC would not be a tragedy. What would be a tragedy would be if, after being asked "Why?", he or she turned around to ask 'the group', "Uuhhh...why did I do that, again? Hey! Where did everybody go?" Any physical war or revolution in the future will be largely dependent upon the success of the parallel InfoWar designed to direct (or prevent) the thinking of those who the government provides with weapons and authority. We need as many of them as possible to be smiling inwardly to themselves when they say, "My gun is loaded, Sarge...and I'm 'right behind' you, all the way." LoadAndUnlockMonger

2 1

Re: Gun Control brings on a New Arms Race
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim May wrote: >(A friend of a friend scored a "cold" Glock 17L...$400 in "NQA" >condition, immediate delivery.) What is a "cold" weapon? What does "NQA" mean? Thanks. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNGi1EZaWtjSmRH/5AQEmVgf/VAzaeo6sgWdNgeBDROt9iZWFZcQi/CZX vvT0cgaOYlSiIKGUKNLqRj8wevyNKQ6fiVLQjMt6zPXCFxzt+BL32NbGOpDZa2Jb YdcGWI3umciOYDxpDMVfnx3W16NiY4rwE5ckj1UnaJHgvut7Y4EtqPjsgcvg86O3 1PhPOxQcCJV+YYIAFu97IYaqkf8L2b+FUNa3DiMqHdTkj2TmbcQWWMPNPPxKIOqJ rMFgN8FSrkh7Js80vdre7Lipg32DyMr6xyzaW5OOxQ5J2IZLZNckn5wNyvulJXio zJyrZEeCwoIW1quHPiiH9/NirjMqw/w0Oi9qvusVKE0az6J6/xLoBQ== =lsaA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

Secure Hashing for Entropy
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Often we have a source of entropy whose output we use as the input to a secure hash function. Does it matter if the hashing function is secure? I don't think so. All that really matters is that the function hashes evenly so that any input string is about as likely as any other input string to result in a particular hash. Even if the hash function is weak and collisions can be found, if it is even the same level of entropy is still available. Have I got this right? Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNGi7K5aWtjSmRH/5AQHNmgf8DddkfsAzC1xTLmOn1eS8Vsxx7HgxwEOh VGpiRC2D29N+y0z9+JZltiNd298QmfvlArYRXBFAC8dKvznf6HWa/xPetW+KqebQ qOKel9hw3pfT8jeRC6G1M9oarWPjU9jOGLlv/DByCI8EcUVvb3Kk9PxdywFpT289 vEFmfDQObHH9BtQFf2hrphx8FtE8QHWIeJMcA16QfKZX/nel9pWEyaXUfE6Rvwuh 3REctj4E/uoTi4FRBjxgFx4pnraIGqg2wVA8Q/iGr41BxauBgRZ+sMZt0CH/x9cc IAKSUuY709Gme6HEqWLyMDdIDZ3Y24xbd9r3eyjFGZZYeaGwG4KowQ== =Ey6Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

Thank You
by Joe Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thank you for your recent inquire. President, Joe Anonymous Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com

1 0

Bug Bounty: Disappearing Cryptography...
by Peter Wayner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My publisher is preparing to reprint my book _Disappearing Cryptography_. As part of a general maintence scheme, I'm offering a reward of $10.00 for the first person to discover a technical error found in the book. Find as many as you can and win some cash. Naturally, there are some limitations to the offer: * Only the first person to report an error is eligible for the reward. The final decision in the case of a tie, will be up to me. The ties will be broken using the time my SMTP server (access.digex.net) receives the mail. I reserve the right to give out multiple rewards in the case of a tie or a close finish. In fact, I'll aim to do this. I just don't want the situtation to emerge where everyone can send me the same bug report and feel eligible for a reward. * Some multiple errors may only count once. Imagine that the third page was missing from the book. Technically, all following pages would be misnumbered. I reserve the right to group any collection of bugs together and label them one error. I will use this right judiciously to avoid hair splitting arguments, but not to deny people multiple rewards. The more errors that are fixed, the better. * Grammar errors aren't eligible, but I welcome any comments. These disputes are often more issues of taste than rule. -Peter Wayner

1 0

Re: ???
by VME Encryption 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Bill Geiger, My first reacation to your followup letter was getting more upset, and I almost replied with another mad letter. But then I decided to better myself and see who I'm dealing with. I've looked at your web site, and looks like you might be a nice person. So, I tried to figure out the reason for the previous vicious letter that was completely unjustified and the following attacks you placed. I'll take it from the point that you might not know all the facts and explain. If that's not enough, I'm sorry. 1) The million dollars challenge is no longer valid for the last 3 months. 2) The current challenge bares NO monetary prize. 3) VME flowcharts, algorithm AND a working application is in the hands of 250 software companies for evaluation (Microsoft, IBM etc.) 4) We can not put it on the net, due to strict US export rules (as you mention in your web site as well) 5) Our program, flowcharts & algorithm have been filed with the US patent office and will be public domain within a year. If that helps explain our part, I'm glad. And if not, it's o.k. - it's a free country and everybody is entitled to their own mind. It's just feel sheety to be attacked by strangers that knows nothing about you, specially people that you might think should have some interest in keeping the individual right to privacy from government and te likes. We started this challenge with some goals in mind, but fighting with a group of cryptographers was not one of them. If anyone wants more technical data, we'll be glad to submit what we can under the circumstances, if someone wants to keep of flaming us, it's o.k. - but we won't respond anymore. Thanks, Project Management. At 09:17 AM 11/11/97 -0600, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >In <3.0.32.19971110100935.006d91b0(a)ibcnet.com>, on 11/10/97 > at 01:09 PM, VME Encryption <matrix(a)meganet.com> said: > >>I rest my case. Please email me your mailing address for the purpose of >>serving and we'll meet in court. > >Serve whatever you want, I will be glad to forward them to my lawyers. > >Just out of curiosity do you threaten to sue everyone who says somthing >you don't like?? > >BTW: you should keep posting *publicly* I showed the thread from the >CP-List and sci.crypt to my lawyers yesterday. They laughed so hard they >bought me free drinks at the clubhouse. Who knows a few more posts from >you and I may be able to get a steak dinner out of them. :) > >- -- >- --------------------------------------------------------------- >William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii >Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 > >Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice >PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. >OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html >- --------------------------------------------------------------- > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.3a >Charset: cp850 >Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 > >iQCVAwUBNGh40Y9Co1n+aLhhAQEeZwP8Cbi4+b1a1x0azGyG5gJm6t2XlW835lxj >7kZy8ejki6Nh3LiEMLjLtwN1SwPu78Gfyubn587qx9yNhuig4VMKvXOGXY3lDN4b >Q6WnAIrLC27oMtllewpJyfICZ01sdqaR8A4X2QkarhHHracn/xDo0EEDEfe6FrsN >NCG9mpjeEyU= >=byvY >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >

1 0

me again
by powerbiz＠valumall.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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1 0

DCSB: James O'Toole on Digital Coupons and Distributed Commerce
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Digital Commerce Society of Boston Presents Dr. James O'Toole Open Market, Inc. Digital Coupons and Distributed Commerce Tuesday, December 2, 1997 12 - 2 PM The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston One Federal Street, Boston, MA Jim says, "Open Market's Transact commerce system version 3.0 introduces new Digital Coupon capabilities that enable merchants to create price promotion and special discount offers for their customers. Digital Coupons provide a secure way for an online merchant to easily implement repricing rules that a Transact-based distributed commerce system uses to adjust prices at the point of sale. This talk will include a brief overview of Open Market's commerce product suite and their architecture. I will explain how Digital Coupons work, provide concrete details of how Transact 3.0 processes coupons and their impact on APIs, screens, and smart statements. I will also discuss the implications of digital coupons and similar artifacts on the design of distributed commerce solutions that rely on trusted intermediaries." Dr. O'Toole is a senior member of the research and advanced development staff of Open Market. His current focus is on technology development and software product architecture. In 1997, Jim was responsible for the conception of Open Market's Digital Coupon products. Prior to joining Open Market in 1996, Jim completed his Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on Tuesday, November 4, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and the speaker's lunch. ;-). The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business attire" (whatever that means), for women. Fair warning: since we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code. We will attempt to record this meeting and put it on the web in RealAudio format at some future date We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday, November 29, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back. Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out. Upcoming speakers for DCSB are: January Joseph Reagle "Social Protocols": Meta-data and Negotiation in Digital Commerce February Donald Eastlake SET We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, <mailto: rah(a)shipwright.com> . For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu> . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu> . We look forward to seeing you there! Cheers, Robert Hettinga Moderator, The Digital Commerce Society of Boston -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5 iQEVAwUBNGmx0MUCGwxmWcHhAQH0LAf9FuAYUFQ+gf80qGXkzWOGMQ62FseOal56 +BPlynyDxk9FGAstvm73uDzDJa+Tr+o8kbA29MEIo0CWClUDMuTVOgXWXA4Uroqb /cDjhNG0K1VOvp+zcMQm7RBtLZA52bqjQ8ep/rAH2eKbHPtUk/Iuqh1IODEZY9mv u+RByPLs5eJwNRS0+k/6sbFAzqmJw41Q1KO5uHsXRWX82ZRq0S2XloxwuXTq+teR EXox/s3hk/9vEy/ZZp1Pc2ubWZjsS+CdU+Gv3pGqhQpF/24leapZFgABCD2H7EH/ /fCkt/LFFC0+AbRjYBvYop4uy0a1J+2TQ24KdFDl8P5UOIx5+FVlTg== =vtpD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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Re: Some IDIOT called CRYPTO CZAR INTERNATIONAL
by VME Encryption 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Paul, I'll ignore all profanities and go straight to the points you make: 1) Never heard of LCSR (or whatever) and we market our product ourself, Meganet Corporation from California USA. 2) AOL, NCR, Perot Systems & dozens other have already looked into the product and contaced us, so yes, they did saw it and liked what they saw. 3) you use a lot of acronyms - what is CMR ? LCSR ? 4) If you've been misinformed, then I hope that straighten it up for you, and if you're still upset about whatever, may god bless you. more info at www.meganet.com If you want more info and can keep a decent language, email us back. If you preffer to keep on flaming, cool for you, but we won't bother answering. p.s. - I wonder if you know what's the source of all the bad rep we've got - nobody knows us and we never posted anything on your forum, so what the heck ? Thanks.

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FRB Crypto Systems
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Federal Register, November 10, 1997 Excerpt from a Federal Reserve Bank announcement: ... the Reserve Banks plan to change their policy for ownership of the encryption boards used by depository institutions with dial and multi-drop connections. These encryption boards are currently purchased and owned by the depository institutions. With the replacement of the encryption boards beginning in the second half of 1998 to enhance the security of the Federal Reserve's communications network, the Reserve Banks plan to purchase and assume ownership of these boards. This approach is consistent with Reserve Bank ownership of other equipment at depository institutions that is required for electronic connections to the Federal Reserve, specifically link encryptors and signaling equipment. Reserve Bank ownership should improve management of the security of the network and facilitate the implementation of an all-electronic key distribution system. This change in policy may affect future-year electronic connection fees, as priced services must recover depreciation costs associated with the new encryption boards. ---------- Are these systems related to Kawika Daguio's comments on PCCIP forwarded by Declan yesterday? Anyone have more detailed info on the boards and link encryptors?

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17 Dec '03

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Re: Bell vs. Woodward--justice?
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Leaving aside the problem with a system where a judge can overturn the >decision of a Jury (I have not seen all of the evidence so have no idea >if she is guilty or innocent but if you enter a country you implicitly >agree to abide by their laws and legal system, however what is the point >of having a Jury if the Judge can do this sort of thing?) then the actual >problem is the length of time that Jim is spending in prison and nothing >to do with the Woodward case at all. It just goes to illustrate, once again, >how laws are selectively enforced and procedures slowed in order to punish >people who can not otherwise be punished as much as the administration would >like to. Throwing the woman in jail for eight months without her ever being convicted is itself an injustice. She should have been aquitted because of that bit of bullshit alone. Yes the same goes for anybody else who is punished in any way before they are convicted. That aside, you ask what the point of having a jury is if the judge can overturn a conviction. There's no problem with the judge overturning a conviction if the evidence warrants it, if the trial was a joke, or something along those lines. We don't convict people in this country based on what the public thinks of them, and that includes a jury. If the jury convicts somebody when the evidence doesn't warrant a conviction -- regardless of the reason why they convicted them, which may be as inane as "But he *might* have been gay, and Jesus doesn't like that" -- it is the judge's duty in the interests of justice to overturn the conviction. If the judge is overturning aquittals, then we have problems. And I would suggest we lock and load if the judge had done that and thrown her in prison. As it is, I only suggest that everyone lock and load because they threw her in jail before she was convicted. She hadn't yet had her trial, so she shouldn't have been in jail, period. The same goes for Jim Bell, his "crimes," and his waiting 7 months for sentencing. Lock and load.

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Re: More Crypto Statements
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What explains this flurry of crypto-statements on the floor of the Senate on Saturday and Sunday? Simple: Our elected representatives had nothing else to do. By late Sunday evening, the vote over fast-track had been postponed ten times as union and corporate lobbyists jockeyed for position with the White House for votes. While smoke was filling the back rooms of the Capitol, members had nothing else to do but twiddle their thumbs. Debate noncontroversial legislation. Recount election battles. And pledge loyalty to strong crypto. Of course increased (or at least more effective) industry lobbying had something to do with the floor statements. These sorts of brief speeches are a sign of a well-honed lobbying campaign. Note, BTW, the tone of the Senate statements. The defeat of Burns' ProCODE bill in the Senate means that crypto-proponents are on the defensive. Murray is forced to say S.909 (McCain-Kerrey) "does not go far enough" in lifting export ctrls -- true, since it also sets up a key escrow infrastructure. There is no pro-crypto bill in the Senate now for crypto-advocates to rally around. (Leahy's is a key escrow wishlist.) Also note that Dreier's statements are significant: "Congress should lift the controls on encryption software" and not move towards mandatory key escrow. He is a senior member of the House Rules committee, which will pass judgement on and reconcile the five versions of SAFE sooner or later. One of those versions is the FBI-friendly one with restrictions on manufacture, distribution, and sale of unapproved crypto products. -Declan At 20:20 -0500 11/10/97, John Young wrote: >Declan, anyone, is this flood of statements due to an >industry campaign, or one by Majortiy Leader Lott, >or Speaker Gingrich, or a combination, or what? > >What's your insider intel, Declan, will these initiatives continue >into the next session or are they just cheap dues paying >for the moment, while getting ready to sellout when the >rain of if-you-knew-what-we've-been-briefed shit showers >down next year?

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Re: Australian sheep [WAS RE: Bell vs. Woodward--justice?]
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(An interesting essay from an Australian was sent to me via an anonymous remailer...at least he or she claimed to be Australian. As I can only respond to him or her via the list, here's my reply.) At 6:42 PM -0700 11/11/97, Anonymous wrote: >>>>>> "T" == Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > T> As for Australia, your countrymen acted like sheep in giving up > T> their guns. If they try that kind of shit here in this country, > T> a *lot* of cops are going to get killed. > > T> (Not necessarily by me, though I'll defend my property and my > T> constitutional rights as best I can. But the militia and patriot > T> and anti-New World Order movements are preparing for war.) > >As an Australian I couldn't agree more with your conclusion Tim. >Australians showed a shameful and cowardly disregard for individual >liberty and freedom on the gun issue and a time will come I'm sure ... And let me assure you that I am not insulting all Australians. I call them as I see them, whether it's Americans (the most common target of my analyses), Germans, French, Swedes, etc. ... >sources. We have in doing this showed just how sheep like we are for >instead of taking some responsibility for our own future defence needs >we have placed ourselves at the feet of the USA for our continued >freedom to pass even more restrictive laws on ourselves. We will all >rue the day America loses interest in us and no doubt some of our >ernest friends to our north will at that point suddenly show a very >great interest in this land. Anyone who seriously believes otherwise "Pax Americana" is the name for this trend. America sits astride the world, as the only remaining military superpower, and an economic superpower as well. I say this not to be jingoistic, but as an expression of reality. The former Soviet Union is in disarray, and its submarines and ICBMs are apparently rusting away and will soon be inoperable. This is, in a sense, good news. The United States almost bankrupted itself in the 40-year Cold War. And now, instead of turning swords into plowshares, cutting taxes, and getting on with life, American sends its aircraft carriers to far-off places, acts as the world's policeman, draws lines in the sand and dares Saddam to cross them, threatens trade wars, and browbeats other nations. (I'd gladly settle for a broken up USA, with five or six economic/political regions, each too small to run around the world butting into the affairs of distant nations. The coming chaos may succeed in doing this.) >is a fool. Personally I have laid down a weapons cache that would, at >the hands of our media, make me look like an invading army myself. >Some of my friends have done likewise. I believe it is my right, >indeed my duty to provide for my own defence. In doing so I am now run >the risk of 20 years imprisonment. Of course since I run this risk >(and self defence is no longer a justification for holding a weapon in >this country) I have not limited myself to semi-auto weapons as they >are now as illegal as automatic weapons, grenades, mines etc. In for a >penny in for a pound. One of the first things the invading U.S. forces did in Somalia was to disarm the civilian population. (I am not making this up.) The farmers protested that they would be left defenseless against the nomadic guerillas and looters. Ah, but the benevolent U.S. decided, via consultations with the U.N., that the key to peace lay in disarming those they could disarm. As the U.S. found, those they were unable to disarm kicked their asses all around Mogadishu. Dragging a chopper pilot around town was just the most visible sign. So the U.S. retreated. Is this portrayed as a defeat? Nope. The warmongers talk about how America has "bounced back" from its loss in Viet Nam and has not lost a war since. More reason to invade other nations. Anyway, disarming the civilians is now U.S. policy. Not too surpising that Clinton looks with favor on the recent disarmings in the U.K. and Australia (and with newer restrictions in Canada, too). >regardless. It is our right and duty, as free men and women to be able >to defend ourselves and god help anyone who comes to disarm us. The >ban, if anything has forced true patriots to decide just which side of >the line they stand on and fostered a more extremist attitude towards >those who would stand aside while the people are murdered. We realise >that constitutional protections such as enshrined in your great >Constitution are won only with blood and not with the talk of the >corrupt. Some of us are awaiting the coming tide with relish. > >Good luck and good hunting, Amen. And Australia should not be completely surprised if the U.S. offers to send "peacekeeping troops" to your country to help with the disarmament. The conspiracy theorists who talk about the New World Order and U.N. "Blue Helmets" roaming U.S. streets have it only half right: the other side of the New World Order is having U.S. troops, possibly under U.N. flags (barf), patrolling conquered, er, liberated territories. I don't want to see my fellow countrymen die in foreign wars, but it wouldn't break my heart to see some Aussie sharpshooters taking out foreign invaders. Should this event happen. (Many of us are fighting the New World Order, and I don't personally think there will be Americans sent in large numbers to quell large populations. America likes picking on countries much smaller than itself.) Good luck. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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48 MILLION Email Leads $195 + BONUSES
by BdavidC＠venus.gmds.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: FRB Crypto Systems
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

:: Anon-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com John Young wrote: > Federal Register, November 10, 1997 > Excerpt from a Federal Reserve Bank announcement: > > ... the Reserve Banks plan to change their policy > for ownership of the encryption boards used by depository > institutions with dial and multi-drop connections. These > encryption boards are currently purchased and owned by the > depository institutions. With the replacement of the > encryption boards beginning in the second half of 1998 to > enhance the security of the Federal Reserve's communications > network, the Reserve Banks plan to purchase and assume > ownership of these boards. Not that they are preparing to take fascist control of all electronic funds in preparation for the coming Financial Holocaust. Has anyone that you can't look *anywhere* in the government regulatory scheme without seeing signs of preparation for *seizing* control of information, finances and communications? I remember going into a black bar in a very bad neighborhood in Seattle and being befriended by the nicest black man in the whole world. After sharing intimate buddy-buddy details of his life with me he suggested that if I gave him my wallet to hold then I wouldn't have to worry about some of the "bad" black people in the establishment robbing me. I didn't give him my wallet, but I _did_ vote for him. {;>) El !Fool

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UN Conference - Limits on Internet speech [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > U.N. CONFERENCE DEBATES LIMITS ON INTERNET SPEECH > > Internet racism graphic November 11, 1997 > Web posted at: 9:14 p.m. EST (0214 GMT) > > GENEVA (AP) -- Concerned at the growing use of the Internet for > racist propaganda, international experts are debating how -- and > whether -- to combat the spread of computerized hate messages. > > Binding global controls on the Internet are unlikely, officials said > Tuesday, since the technology is changing faster than rules can be > made, and because of free speech protection in the United States. > > The United Nations is sponsoring a week-long meeting of human rights > activists, government officials and Internet service providers as > part of efforts to ensure compliance with an international treaty > banning racial discrimination. It ends Friday with a list of > recommendations. > > "There are 148 countries who have accepted this convention and they > are under obligation to enact measures to implement it," said Agha > Shahi of Pakistan, a member of the U.N. Committee on the Elimination > of Racial Discrimination. > > "Are we going to say the Internet should be exempt from any kind of > compliance with the rules of international behavior?" he asked. > > It is widely agreed that the Internet offers an open platform for > racists and white supremacists, although nothing has proved this > leads to a related rise in racist incidents. > > Much of the problem stems from the United States, where groups such > as the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations and skinheads base their Web > sites. > > Under the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees free speech, these > groups are permitted to post their views on the Internet, which can > be accessed by people in other countries. > > Although European countries like Sweden have moved toward making > Internet service providers responsible for the content they supply, > such restrictions are unlikely in the United States, and hence, > internationally. > > "In our tradition, it is only through the clash of views in vigorous > debate, and not through government censorship, that equality is well > served," Philip Reitinger of the U.S. Department of Justice said at > the U.N. meeting. "That principle -- one which accords freedom of > expression the highest respect -- applies with equal force to the > Internet." > > While the U.S. computer industry is voluntarily working on ways to > ensure that computer smut isn't accessible to minors, Eric Lee, of > the Internet service provider Commercial Internet eXchange, said it > was "not feasible and not desirable" for Internet providers to act > as censors. > > "It's difficult if not impossible to suppress content on the Web > because there are so many ways to evade controls," Lee said. "Which > does not mean that one should not take steps to limit behavior, but > coming up with foolproof controls is virtually impossible." > > Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This > material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or > redistributed.

3 2

Y2K: Canada status?
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please reply to my personnal address, I am not on CPunks. Is there anybody who knows about the Y2K situation in Canada? Should we infer that the situation will be the same here or were any preparation steps taken by out govt that will postpone our contry's alledged fall by 2 microseconds (time for any major economic catastrophy in the US to reach us here) Ciao jfa "You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against -- then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. Your fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. Once declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted -- and you create a nation of law-breakers---and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system...that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be easier to deal with." Ayn Rand

3 2

U.N. conference on "hate sites" on the Internet
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[I've attached the conference agenda below. --Declan] ************* Experts tell U.N. conference 'hate' sites on Internet may be here to stay Reuters GENEVA (November 11, 1997 2:47 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Internet hate sites, such as one urging "Aryan brothers and sisters ... to combat racially inferior parasites," are unlikely to be stamped out because this would limit freedom of speech, experts said Tuesday. The need to respect free speech, as well as the sheer size of the task, emerged at a United Nations seminar as the two main obstacles to eradicating such material. The issue has become more pressing as the number of online hate sites soars and racism, neo-Nazism and anti-Semitism, find new niches on the Internet, speakers at the meeting said. But there is no easy answer to the question: who decides what is offensive on the Internet? "In Europe, it would be racist to say, 'I don't like Arabs.' In the United States, we can say 'I don't like Arabs, I don't like pink people.' Under freedom of expression, it's not against the law," said Debra Guzman, executive director of the U.S.-based Human Rights Information Network. "You can't ban this in the United States," she told a news conference. One problem is that Internet technology itself cannot distinguish between the offensive and the non-offensive, said Eric Lee, public policy director at the U.S. Commercial Internet Exchange. [...] ************* Dear Madam/Sir, I have the honour to inform you that within the framework of the implementation of the Programme of Action for the Third Decade to Combat Racism and Racial Discrimination, in pursuance of General Assembly resolution 51/81, the High Commissioner for Human Rights will organize a seminar on "The role of Internet with regard to the provisions of the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination". The purpose of the Seminar which will take place in Geneva from 10 to 14 November 1997 and bring together experts on the subject matter, representatives of governments, Internet Service Providers, and representatives of non-governmental organizations, is to find ways and means to ensure a responsible use of the Internet in the light of the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination. The draft agenda of the meeting reads as follows: (a) Racism and Racial Discrimination on Internet (b) Technical Aspects of screening racist propaganda on Internet: 1. National Measures 2. International Measures (c) Prohibition of racist propaganda on the Internet. Juridical Aspects: 1. National Measures 2. International Measures (d) Elements for an eventual Code of Conduct and good practice for displaying material on Internet (e) Recommendations. /... #012# I am very pleased, on behalf of the Secretary-General, to invite your Organization to send an observer to the seminar. In order that the necessary arrangements concerning conference facilities may be made in advance, I would be grateful to receive his or her name by 30 October 1997 at the latest. Under existing arrangements, your Organization would be expected to bear the costs of its representative. I am attaching to this letter, for your convenience, a briefing note relating to the seminar. Yours sincerely, John Pace Chief Research and Right to Development Branch ______________________________________________________________________ IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROGRAMME OF ACTION FOR THE THIRD DECADE TO COMBAT RACISM AND RACIAL DISCRIMINATION SEMINAR ON THE ROLE OF INTERNET WITH REGARD TO THE PROVISIONS OF THE INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION ON THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FORMS OF RACIAL DISCRIMINATION Geneva, Palais des Nations 10-14 November 1997 PROVISIONAL AGENDA Monday 10 November Morning 10:00 - 13:00 Opening of the Seminar - Welcome address by High Commissioner for Human Rights - Election of the Bureau (Chairperson, Vice-Chairperson, Rapporteur) - Adoption of the agenda - Organisation of work Afternoon Working session I 15:00 - 18:00 Item I: Racism and Racial Discrimination on Internet - Keynote address by Ms. Debra Guzman, Executive Director The Human Rights Information Network - General discussion - Conclusion #012# Tuesday 11 November Morning Working session II.a 10:00 - 13:00 Item II: Technical Aspects of screening racist propaganda on Internet: National measures - Keynote address by Mr. Timothy L. Jenkins, Chairman of Unlimited Visions - General discussion - Conclusion Afternoon Working session II.b 15:00 - 18:00 Item III: Technical Aspects of screening racist propaganda on Internet: international measures - Keynote address by Mr. Eric Lee, Commercial Internet Exchange - General discussion - Conclusion Wednesday 12 November Morning Working session III.a 10:00 -13:00 Item IV: Prohibition of Racist Propaganda on the Internet: Juridical Aspects, National Measures - Keynote address by an expert of the Department of Justice, USA - General discussion - Conclusion Afternoon Working session III.b 15:00 - 18:00 Item V: Prohibition of Racist Propaganda on the Internet: Juridical Aspects, International Measures - Keynote address by Mr. Agha Shahi, member of the Commitee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination - General discussion - Conclusion #012# Thursday 13 November Morning Working session IV.a 10:00 - 13:00 Item VI: Elements for an eventual Code of Conduct and good practice for displaying material on Internet - Keynotes address by: Ms. Maya Sooka, Association for Progressive Communication, Johannesburg - General Discussion - Conclusion Afternoon Working session IV.b 15:00 - 18:00 Item VI: Elements for an eventual Code of Conduct and good practice for displaying material on Internet - Keynotes address by: Mr. Tony Rutkowsky, former senior ITU executive - General Discussion - Conclusion Friday 14 November Morning Free Time Afternoon 15:00 - 18:00 Conclusions and Recommendations Closing of the Seminar - Statement of the Chairperson - Final statement of the High Commissioner ------

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Hmmm
by wabe 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

So, just as a question, what COULD the FBI do, if it saw a real possibility for organized crime to get out of control if they no longer could do wiretaps? I have a friend in berlin who says the Russian Mob is moving in there. Scary. What should the FBI say? Is there even a Constitutional option? _______________________________________ -wabe

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Re: Y2K: Canada status?
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jean-Francois Avon wrote: > Please reply to my personnal address, I am not on CPunks. > > Is there anybody who knows about the Y2K situation in Canada? > > Should we infer that the situation will be the same here or were any preparation steps > taken by out govt that will postpone our contry's alledged fall by 2 microseconds (time for > any major economic catastrophy in the US to reach us here) Canadians have the additional problem of having a lot of software which is customized to convert differing MM/DD/YY formats back and forth. More so than many other countries, because of the close working relationship of many small to medium companies with American customers and vendors. Many Canadian companies do not seem to realize that their software works with their 'Joe America' software package only because the guy who left the company six years ago did some obscure customization. I have seen problems that appeared only when Canadian companies updated their 'Joe America' software, and that was _without_ date-code changes. Many companies that run Canadian versions of software are also unaware of the customizations made to it by vendors in order to 'make' it work with US versions as it was advertised to do out of the box. As well, even Canadian companies who are ready and willing to tackle the Y2K problem are sometimes unable to do so until those who their software needs to interact with do so. It is sometimes very difficult for them to fix the 'Canadian' parts of the code without adjusting the 'American' parts of the code, with no assurance that once their American counterparts do their changes, all of their work/money goes out the window. During the decimal/metric changeover in Canada, I had more than one car which required me to have tools for 'both' systems, to do even the smallest of mechanical tasks on it. Now might be a great time to invest in companies who resisted the move to computerization, and who still have bookeepers and the like on staff. CanuckMonger

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Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 23:18:49 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> > Subject: Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole > Remember my old Neitsche joke about the rabbits demanding their rights and > the lions asking to see their claws? You, Tim, or anyone else we know, even > those with arsenals :-), are but mere ferrets in comparison. 'mere ferrets'? You obviously don't know much about the predatory nature of the mustella clan (ferrets, weasels, badgers, etc.). From a predator stand-point they are excellent hunters, routinely killing prey *three* times their body weight by themselves. By no means is that routine of predators of any ilk other than felines (statisticaly hitting 70% kill rates on average, dogs do good if they hit 40% in packs). You should do a little research into mustella negripe, the American Black-footed Ferret (distantly related to the European Ferret at best). No, being a ferret is *not* an insult but rather a compliment. Pound for pound if you got to pick a fight don't pick one with felines or mustellids they *will* kick your weasy little butt. And yes, I am a cat & ferret lover. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Communications
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Chaff Import receive smuggle hide conceal compartments ship train truck vans illegal gang weapons autos munitions ammunition explosives nitro c4 plastic powder casings bullets rifles ammo sawed off pistols shipment cargo docks stash cache Bosnia France Libya Africa Mexico Sud Amercia chopper plane night fight low runway drop pickup wait cover kill execute hit target plan arrangement cash payoff $100,000 taxes evade $1,000,000 Switzerland Zurich offshore bank account numbered feds atf batf dea escape hidden internet international gmt london interpol gs-9 brits sas terror government fuel oil diesel fertilizer racing mix formula files secrets encrypt pgp intercept caution fbi president plane movement ss mafia kennedy criminal shoot hackers militia extremists fight constitution big brother congress freedom jefferson original cia dia military joint chiefs council united nations new world order one russia socialists communists crack cocaine Copyright 1997 Noise Inc. Distribute by law.

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Re: Bell vs. Woodward--justice?
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>If the judge is overturning aquittals, then we have problems. And I would >suggest we lock and load if the judge had done that and thrown her in prison. >As it is, I only suggest that everyone lock and load because they threw her >in jail before she was convicted. She hadn't yet had her trial, so she >shouldn't have been in jail, period. She was under indictment for murder, no? I don't know how Massachusetts handles murder suspects before trial, but in many states those accused of capital crimes don't get the benefit of bail. (Ditto for those who are flight risks, etc.) Of course, prosecutors perforn their own dog-and-pony show in front of the judge/magistrate, claiming that the accused is not only guilty of everything one could imagine, but also a smarmy type who would double-park during rush hour and probably has connections to the Illuminati, neo-Nazi hate groups, and the O.T.O. The logical extreme of what you propose is that, for a serial murderer, jail would just be a rest stop between killings. "He was caught in Idaho and indicted for murder, but they released him on bail. So he went over to Montana and killed someone there, but they had to release him, too." Surely there must be some reasonable middle ground.

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An open invitation! *!
by make＠money.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

X-Info:Filtered Via The Remove List At http://www.antispam.org X-Info:Sent Using A Free Copy Of The Zenith Bulk Emailer INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE... - For easy reading, please maximize this window - NOTE... *** For those of you that don't have access to a server that allows you to bulk e-mail, I can give you a special gift. I know a url where you can get several different FREE software packages which will extract e-mail addresses from the internet and create mailing lists for you! I also have a list of FREE e-mail servers that allow you to send bulk mail! All you have to do to get them is to include a note asking me for "THE FREE E-MAIL SERVERS" and BE SURE TO ENCLOSE YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS WITH YOUR ORDER FOR REPORT # 1 *** I won't use up bandwidth with useless comments about this program, or testimonials from people you have never heard about before. We all know that multi-level-marketing is the wave of the future and that it is very easy to make a large amount of money in a very short time. I know, this is my second time using this program and I made well over $50,000 on my last attempt. Unfortunately, most people look at this type of program and toss it out, a very big mistake because they are also tossing out a chance to gain financial independance! This program contains all of the components necessary to make it a legal, multi-level-marketing program, a tangible product, a service, and a guarantee, so don't let someone fool you into thinking it's illegal, it's not! Plain and simple english... This Program Works! All it takes is a little of your time, a VERY small investment, and the will to succeed! Using the internet and e-mail, this program WILL make you a lot of money, and you can run through it again and again! *** For those of you that don't have access to a server that allows you to bulk e-mail, I can give you a special gift. I know a url where you can get FREE software which will extract e-mail addresses from the internet and create mailing lists for you! I also have a list of FREE e-mail servers that allow you to send bulk mail! All you have to do to get them is to include a note asking me for "THE FREE E-MAIL SERVERS" and BE SURE TO ENCLOSE YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS WITH YOUR ORDER FOR REPORT # 1 *** INCOME POTENTIAL This plan works on a Four-level or Tier MLM Program plan. This example that follows is quite conservative; however, you need to be aware that the numbers will change (probably upward) depending on the distribution amounts, the response rate of return, and the failure factor. The only numbers which are imperative for you to remember, and be able to match or exceed, are the number of orders received at Levels 1 and 2 (15 orders and 105, respectively). You must receive at least 15 orders for Report # 1, and 105 orders for Report # 2 for MATHEMATICALLY GUARANTEED SUCCESS. Here is a VERY CONSERVATIVE example of how this works. First, you and those following will each distribute 5,000 MLM Invitations to Participate in the program (what you are now reading). Second, the response rate of orders (future participants) is usually .003 (three in a thousand). Third, of those who respond with an order, $10, and the willingness to enter this program, 50% will for whatever reason not redistribute it. This is call the failure factor. The real number for these failures is closer to 30%, but remember you are being presented a very conservative example. So, you decide to give the program a TRY and enter at Level One and redistribute 5,000 new invitations which, at the return rate of .003 will provide you with 15 orders within 10 days to 2 weeks from future participants at $10 each, totaling $150 (instant return on your investment). Remember, we assumed 50% of the 15 new participants will fail to redistribute, so only 7 will send out the next 5,000 invitations (35,000 total). At Level Two, out of these 35,000 you should receive 105 (three in a thousand) orders within an additional 2-4 weeks at $10 totaling $1,050, and 52 new participants (half of the 105) will each send out the next 5,000 invitations for a new total of 260,000 prospects. >From these you will receive 780 orders at Level Three, increasing your income by $7,800. Then 390 (half of the 780) people will each distribute another 5,000 proposals, which will total 1,950,000 potential participants as you reach Level Four. With the .003 response rate there will be 5,850 new orders equaling $58,500 ! The total for all levels is $67,500. Not a bad return for sending out only 5,000 e-mail invitations. INVESTMENT The investment necessary to enter this program is $40 for the purchase of all 4 reports. This is a fixed cost of purchasing the four individual reports from preexisting Program Members at $10 each. Beyond this, the costs are variable depending on how you choose to redistribute the Program and the cost of reproducing the reports. Most certainly the order response from Level One will cover all costs even for the very aggressive participants. This is a very nominal investment for such a wonderful return. All those people you know who brag about all their investments, their portfolios, etc., would just die if they knew what you now know - that you can turn $40 into $67,500 or more in the NEXT FEW MONTHS! LEGALITY After careful study and legal consultations, there are 2 important points you should now and follow which keep this program perfectly legal and in compliance with US Postal and Lottery Laws. First, a product is being ordered by you and sold by the receiver of your order. Second, you need to request that your name be placed on the mailing list from whom you order so a service is also being performed. Title 18 Sections 1302 and 1341 of the US Postal and Lottery Laws specifically states " A product or service must be exchanged for money received." Also remember when you receive your orders you MUST fill them promptly, preferably the same day, with the Report being sold to comply with the law, and also to aid the new participants in future order procurement not just for themselves but also for you. GUARANTEE FOR SUCCESS The check points which GUARANTEE your SUCCESS and the optimal financial return for all participant members are simply these: 1. You must receive at least 15 orders for Report # 1 2. You must receive at least 105 orders for Report #2 This is easy, but it's an absolute must !!! No matter how many program invitations you chose to redistribute, if you don't receive the necessary 15 or more orders for Report # 1, keep sending more invitations until you receive the necessary 15 orders. The more you get, the more money you will make. This also applies for the 105 orders for Report # 2. Once you have received the necessary 105 or more orders for Report # 2, simply sit back, take a deep breath and relax because you are going to receive orders in excess of $67,500. This is a MATHEMATICALLY PROVEN guarantee. Of those who have participated in this program and reached the above minimum orders, all have reached or exceeded their goal. Just imagine what would happen if there was no failure factor, or if it were just lower than the calculated 50% ! The question is, do you really want to have $67,500 in your bank in the next few months? I am sure you do, so are you willing to give the program a TRY? You will never know if it works if you don't TRY....... Remember, if you want your ship to come in, you have to launch it first. The hardest part of this program is deciding to do it. Once you have taken that step then you need to decide how to get the 5,000 or more names with whom you want to share this program. There are many companies that will provide mailing lists with e-mail addresses. You have gotten lots of advertisements over e-mail offering bulk mail services....NOW MAKE THEM WORK FOR YOU !! *** WHAT TO DO *** "OK, I am of THREE IN A THOUSAND - I've decided this venture is worth $40.00. What do I do now? STEP # 1 - Purchase each of the four Reports by NAME and NUMBER, and request to be put on the mailing list (both street and e-mail addresses and important) to each seller. Do this by ordering one of the four Reports from each of the four names listed here after. For each Report send $10 CASH and a SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED ENVELOPE (Business size #10) to the person listed for the SPECIFIC REPORT. It is essential that you specify each Report ordered by name and number for each person to insure that you will receive all four Reports properly. You will need all 4 Reports because you will be REPRODUCING AND RESELLING them. Do not alter the names or the sequence of the name list in any way other than by what the instructions say. It is important for you to receive same day service on your orders, and you must also must also provide it to others when you receive orders. STEP # 2 - Put your name on the list prior to your distribution of the Program Invitations. In doing so it is imperative for everyone's success in this Program that you follow these instructions exactly. First, delete the person's name from Report # 4 position as they will be on their way to the bank. Second, move the name in the Report # 3 position into the open # 4 position. Third, move the name from Report # 2 spot into the # 3 position. Fourth, move the name from the Report # 1 position to the # 2 place. Finally, place your name and address into the Report # 1 position. When doing this, make certain to type the names and addresses accurately, and to not mix up the order of the names with each Report other than as how you have just been instructed. REPORT AND NAME LIST REPORT # 1 - "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" Order from: Rick Kowalski 617 Gateway Road, WPG., MB., Canada, R2K-2X8 REPORT # 2 - "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" Order from: Sarah Glade 168 Harbison Ave. West, Winnipeg MB, Canada, R2L-0A4 REPORT # 3 - "INCREASING THE ODDS WITH MAILING LISTS" Order from: Department 2, LBK Marketing & Graphics, PO Box 351509, Jacksonville, FL 32235-1509 REPORT # 4 - "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" Order from : USI, 3400-L MacArthur Blvd., Santa Ana, CA 92704 REMEMBER! Order each report by name and number, and to include with the $10 cash a self-addressed, stamped envelope. DISTRIBUTION Having made the changes in the name list, save the new Program as a text file, using "Notepad" in Windows in its own directory to be used with whatever mass mail program you like. Report # 3 will give you some of the best methods for distributing this Program. Be creative! Who knows what your personal twist will produce! FULFILLMENT It is essential that the Reports you reproduce look like the originals - not copies of copies of copies. The more professional you keep your business the more so will those behind you. Always provide same day service. It's sound business and the sooner your buyers get started, the sooner you start counting your money. IN A NUTSHELL 1. Name your new MLM Company. You can use you own name if you desire. 2. Get a Post Office box if you can, as it is a preferred way of doing MLM. 3. Edit the names on the Program. Remember, your name goes into the Report # 1 position. The others move down one position with the fourth name being deleted. 4. Copy and save this program as it has become yours to reproduce for distribution via any and all methods you choose. Make certain it remains neat and legible. 5. Decide on the number of Programs you intend to distribute. The more invitations you send out, and the quicker you get them into the hands of other interested people, the more money you will make. 6. Decide on your methods of distribution and obtain as many e-mail addresses as possible to send to until you receive the information regarding mailing list companies in Report # 3. 7. Distribute the Program Invitations, and get ready to fill your orders. 8. Reproduce or copy each of the four Reports so you are ready to send them out as soon as you receive your orders. Remember, when you do, to keep them looking like originals and to always provide same day service. 9. Follow the program instructions exactly, but be as creative and aggressive as you can. THANK YOU for taking the time to read this. Now print it out, RE-READ IT and envision that new car, that vacation, that new house, or that quality education for your kids! Is it too good to be true? No, but it is too good to let slip through your fingers. Are you one of THREE IN A THOUSAND? Are you going to prove to yourself whether or not you can make alot of money in a short period of time by working smart? Are you willing to TRY? It is your decision. GOOD LUCK ! *** Important Message - Sent Using The Zenith Bulk Emailer *** *** For Your FREE Copy Of This Program - http://209.27.224.16 ***

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No Subject
by Stéphane Jacquet 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Give a visit to my home page !!!!! And let me know what you think !!! ================================== Stéphane Jacquet sjacquet(a)musician.org http://www.worldnet.net/~sjacquet/

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Re: 1st Amendment Tossed in Paladin Case
by Jim Ray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- This is very worrisome to me. Miami author Paul Levine wrote a novel a while back about using a naturally-occurring chemical available to the medical profession called succhylcholine (sp?) to commit murder almost untraceably. He was inspired by someone trying it, and I think people have tried it since, and the novel could be said to be a how-to, but nobody has tried to stop him from making money on the book. This case, by looking to the content of the how-to, promises to turn poorly-written how-to books into poorly-written novels, I guess. (Levine's book is well- written and a fun read, but not every author is Paul Levine.) JMR [If cypherpunks, please cc me on replies. I'm on a filtered version.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh. iQEPAwUBNGlSKDUhsGSn1j2pAQFegAfPYtqzIUxddBauAGayRqu2+7kO7uTWwon3 XQRBBc++Mam6Kqpv3yhfIRv4h6Rkj3NSunaIjUOeMa8J/vLNgsC1Bz5N/hnVa6iw wcrIOBkSE39+3xNZ4zLhtTq2F9onDLigdUAZDlprWNFRW9jyG+BGa8dfH16zvye4 mofM9OD9RPgnGN+Jd+tgivkok0Hg/Q4Wt6aLIthGPJL3/Dhowh8V6eftAPyJuaLv nLtgtX3PkSnhRziBPhXAHGxh8Arfrn6xzBoXV8MTdDdurIhFjIq+7wlpefkQIHSK oNmNt7q2IPvdblW+71wwseFXi8V1p4Da788Rn22ezqZ6PQ== =VMU+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Search engine supporting SSL
by Paul Feldman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi all, is there a search engine around supporting SSL ? this will let one hide it's requests to search engines from malicious eyes :) -- Paul Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com

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Secure HTTP proxying
by Paul Feldman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, do someone knows if there is any browser which uses SSL to contact a HTTP proxy ? in the standard schema, we want to contact a secure server through a proxy, so the browser sends the CONNECT method to the proxy to contact the remote (secure) site. in the schema of my interest, the browser wants to contact a remote secure or insecure site with "hiding" of the communication from some intermediate sniffers, it does so by using a http proxy in SSL mode and then contacting the site of his choice. This is very important for permitting web navigation in insecure environnements if the malicious eyes dont have access to the proxy's network. talking about HTTP proxies in general, i think setting these is as important as setting anonymous remailers, i hope there are some ppl with enough motivation and ressources to help broadcast safe cyberculture. Best Regards -- paul Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com

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Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Krispin wrote: >Tim, like many, rationalizes his simmering anger by blaming it all on >the "bastids in the gubmit". But it doesn't take much insight to see >that there is something a little deeper going on, something a little >sad. .................................................. By jove, I think I've "got" it - there *is* something deeper going on here: Tim is really an undercover 'narc' - through his provocative remarks he's actually encouraging all the violent terrorists on the list to come out of their lurking holes and reveal themselves. Then he's going to turn them all in for a cash reward, which he'll use to buy more high-tech stock. Yeah, that's it! .. Blanc

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Thank You
by Joe Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thank you for your recent inquire. President, Joe Anonymous Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com

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Computer Show Invittion
by fred34＠netsix.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ mailto: (fred34(a)netsix.com) with REM0VE in the subject if you do not wish to receive tickets for future shows. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1286 B ++++++++++ Dear Computer User Hello My name is Fred Hansen of the Robert Austin Computer Show Corporation. I would like to extend to you a personal invitation to come to the San Francisco Bay Area to attend the Computer Show at the OAKLAND CONVENTION CENTER Saturday Nov. 8, 1997. The show hours are 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM There is NO CHARGE FOR ADMISSION. This show is THE place to find the latest equipment and information for COMPUTER USE and the INTERNET. It is Northern California's largest computer Computer Show with wholesale prices available to the public. +++++++++++++++ 1286 B +++++++++++++++++++++++ To save 20% to 50% on your Holiday PC Purchases check the values found at: http://www.tradespace.com/rasindex.html Come to the show and meet the the Show Co-Sponsor TradeSpace Inc. for more great values. +++++++++++++++ 1286 B +++++++++++++++++++++++ Approximately 50 computer dealers and manufacturers assemble at this facility to present their products to you. These vendors compete with each other to bring you the very latest technology and selection at the lowest possible prices. Seminars are held by major INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS to answer questions for you. If you are interested in PURCHASING COMPUTER EQUIPMENT or accessing the INTERNET you should attend this show and see for yourself. For show information on the web Visit us at http://www.robertaustin.com Bookmark this site to get up to the minute show information and directions. Email me back (mailto: fred34(a)netsix.com) and let me know what you think after you see the show. I am looking for your input regarding seminar topics and other items you would like to see in future shows. If you have questions please visit our web site at http://www.robertaustin.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1286 B ++++ Please make as many copies of this ticket as needed and BRING YOUR FRIENDS to the show with copies of this ticket. Fill this ticket out and bring it for your PRE REGISTERED admission. It can be used for either of the following two COMPUTER SHOWS. No further registration is required. OAKLAND CONVENTION CENTER 10th and Broadway, Down Town Oakland in the Beautiful Marriott Hotel Nov. 8, 1997 Nov. 29, 1997 COW PALACE Geneva and Santos in Daly City Nov. 22, 1997 Lower Level enter Gate 5 Dec. 13, 1997 Lower Level enter Gate 5 (Ticket Below) Cut Ticket Here>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Name__________________________________________________ Address ________________________________________________ City ________________________ State _______ Zip ___________ Telephone ______________________________________________ Email address ___________________________________________ Age ___ Sex ___ Annual household income _____k$ Do you own a computer Y/N ____ Business use Y/N ___ Home use Y/N ____ Are you satisfied with your Internet service Y/N __ (Ticket Above) Cut Ticket Here>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = +++++++++ WHAT YOU WILL SEE ++++++++++++++++++++++1273 B 1 ++++++ BUSINESS COMPUTER AND INTERNET USE If you use the computer or Internet at your company this is the place to learn about them and buy. DON'T PAY RETAIL PRICES FOR YOUR COMPUTER NEEDS. FABULOUS PRICES--- 40 Companies all bringing their best selection of merchandise and selling at rock bottom prices. DON'T MISS THE BARGAINS. NO LOWER COMPUTER PRICES IN THE BAY AREA. Wholesale to the public. Save up to 90% on new name brand equipment. COMPARE AND SAVE with the Show Co-Sponsor Tradespace Inc. To save 20% to 50% on your Holiday PC Purchases check the values found at: http://www.tradespace.com/rasindex.html Come to the show and meet the the Show Co-Sponsor TradeSpace Inc. for more great values. HARDWARE Huge selection of computer systems, and accessories are rock bottom prices SOFTWARE You will not find a better selection of computer software including CD ROM's anywhere, being sold at prices that you must see to believe. BOOKS FOR COMPUTER AND INTERNET Webster books is bringing the largest selection ever of computer and Internet Books to the show. Over 10,000 volumes are being sold at wholesale prices (20% off list) HUGE SELECTION --- 40 Companies bring their best selection of products and latest technology for you to see. BAY AREAS LARGEST COMPUTER SHOW FREE INTERNET SEMINARS -- These seminars will provide you with the latest information on Internet topics. Come and talk face to face with the technical people from the Bay Areas Premiere Internet Service Providers. LATEST TECHNOLOGY -- These shows bring you together with the manufacturers that are introducing the very latest advances in technology. EXPERT ASSISTANCE -- Are you tired of purchasing products from stores with clerks that have no product knowledge. Each of the vendors has personal knowledge of their products for immediate answers to your questions. +++++++++++ SEMINAR SCHEDULE +++++++++++++++1286 B ++++++++++ 10:30 Beginners Internet. - Everything you need to know to get started on the Internet. 11:30 Web Authoring.-How to build a web site using Microsoft Front Page 97. See live demos of web pages being built before your eyes. 12:30 Business Internet Use - Connecting your business to the Internet, ISDN, T1, Dedicated and dial up access, Connecting your office network to the Internet, Multiple Internet E-mail Accounts. 1:30 E-Commerce "Secure Financial Transactions" 2:30 Web Authoring.-How to build a web site using Microsoft Front Page 97. See live demos of web pages being built before your eyes. These seminars are presented by SLIP.NET for the computer show attendee at NO CHARGE. Join the Internet revolution. Attend to learn how. Looking forward to seeing you. Best Regards fred34(a)netsix.com Fred Hansen ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1286 B ++++

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