December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Does anybody know ?
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anybody know hypo-cypher algorithm ? Symmetric cipher : BATON , JUNIPER Public key cipher : KEA , MAYFLY If anybody know it, Please tell it to me. Thanks

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Free start up kit
by Theresa Lowery 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please send me a free start up kit my name and address follows Robert Lowery 1943 Hwy 472 Winnfield, LA 71483 My E-Mail address is tlowery(a)iamerica.net Thank you Robert

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Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole
by Benjamin Chad Wienke 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 hQEMA0wZBVdR1dnXAQf/S43G40ZKaxPXfsbjM6QZ7Bk7Q5o1A9bIIPvMoBMCEC2+ 4T80jUTG+rTQeGFCNpDW6cgQlU7PdOJt5LXWxepRw8d/KfuXXv994Rw++8mYZqZ5 yr9YoYypwKP4qM0PR1XXgh3paZAX8mcpr50hiM9I3QqdLNaWcTnxIBejPpJrzUQh LikANbeZdBdxDdGf+TCMhgs/k2Ow6BdjXn5nnOmerxihiT0zb3rI4QLHBZfFKTuz yybWltvT29RCHq6qZkUfag7ubHausLLgTCNZVSUqyo77LSVnM5vN9C/3BF1l0i5Y Zbxia5w0bZboLTudAAkvPqqgj8TrmLX0NLTaNl3Cw6UEMKc55RFAy9KUyOb+fuQj XUDu+bmiNAN/ww9t6h/GIxhL1R5ckjsKWNRu+GbXtNn1wwHkwTisJ+GuHTkwAuFu aUKv+Ix8LXkSr0hEyhtueVHJ9AQkAY96Mg3HBd+oKZBAdBCMxjM0FCrAr6ZxoGJf gtqWxMnzJRtvCkLKnsJ7siiXb3VK+CJC5w5BS4WG9aZYpd8GfY09Qg+uLds3aCyM Lj2Fu77ceqP6yiU6wjRBFg0odGO1wAItL+P665u5x8QX6gTTryZQ/cehzP8JSyQI g1yI3n8AmfKVSHJJKSBXFhmeVxCUT8ShIHrkhLRnmSPnRRXKXrFtWbAxyPfbSs+v 3P1oO+mjkdCD/ZJvX+CR5ig7ArTyNgBufuNedF/CEY+ZRXY5wmnXz7Gv01EPPBqA cMnMxpeNo/e+7zrcdcNt3Ykavj+C+03FUebnmPq02O0boAcDfViGJEEEPbTYWBxq MIu+i2PDXk1sip8t5QNpLNY37JjitNm2/x1QY6Bf3hn9dZ6Z0jiygk7jo707WO2M SbUOZFNIpgmRRTecHupSDO9nHogoWmSrir2yDZwXnBjMs8aTe68R0grnDB8lx7dO OrBdbhJbiE2d5qyBER8sEB3BCYUGou1+ZDh7FrWSVuh3gLQBKDS+kbNiZVsf9fC/ PN4ZdwlUVzi7cYWd0HTS5VQHWgwKPldp1w0GxH22w7VRt2zZ7pq4aZMVLTgrWz0F 2SJmL+hS2VdvhgwxQRRgjoDUUqjGcP5o8XxAf9K9H4Nz4VrMXahfImMkppSrrB5L T4qx+xqqvbGHuH+C/Oe6E2NmrAdH9wmp4s9GRCNms2zUtYBFdtBrMnFrl5F0epCR j4K9xV4/QkLfZnMe3veLMUsMaGoYQYU76NRiFD2LlCov5bJwzPRsYNjoBrW8+f5z ZOecoMGz9Jdlf1rgRAdGEdtx08W+XKiJwm+hhgHPZ4Qx6OLsL3MfI6QNxxdBJfKw +h/RuBdDJDYA1kZ3vFuj5m0SnZ3oake0gpEzyDWOyCfqS/SwEuaEE9ccYvnUyY86 upVDklr1er2AZYOE0jTVMZumJnCAA5AZQ5BibbQYu63wmCAffxtihlE55cnGatwp R3J0Mv6HWU8NgJqu5dWwdrvWR+ikg4zYkngDWTzHTYRqMCLaC6k9rw8QNsv/FeqE qsOXpoXiZGLqQeE93EJPPMgVmZCiGQ3je0bmV5cxF7ljn1lf42NujFVCJFtSduSk 9OOM9cpdEgCiID56tZDADkjDDIbQWsm40CYHgzsdkMi7HX2HXIcjwPugr1+lZd28 hRh4NYAAk5RT7RYAoICYdsie9cUAI9cSEJx1PTSvkqluVisB24I1ckjWNP/A25sy dMT18wGl6DIFzY9L1WBCjWz8zj0nS3zMtnmjgUVzOvb7nQQEKz2bK2e19MDvXIfi IHk= =SMSY -----END PGP MESSAGE----- Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com

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Re: Overcoming War with Information
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Monty Cantsin wrote: > The post-Yugoslav governments probably >cooperated in creating hatreds and division to lock in their rule. > >This can be hard to study because usually we don't have access to the >people doing this, their files, or their communications. Hmmmmmmmmm... So whose files and communications do "we" have access to? And who is "we"? Nerthus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNHRaxOFWwZe05jcJAQGAtAf+M9WiR+ldO0Wc2q7aj49N1jtugEGlALcc 6aYbRnzv7PaRqF+oexamjpO0YNCH/YAVIrAX29df/mPDs3yUZxwPZ2XaKKmfgIK9 3GVIXpv7ZyCbspPffe3hvzpWuu/myoQakL2RLm9YVbxg3gv94tIBrwYU0/Fki4CD 8b/8B0kmetBpAmbHSsdCv7MmXo0nCozX9JsNWLqwKFqVVWmjBrH8MCO6DPeKAXQT 3myXVaeJ3giUEJUUxxik6FNfxNEqCNB11pCO+Eo2AnIZ5q9IrMvDn0/Gq9p+v+OA J5Knyq+/Ckvq3C/zbRvi6NQSjuGjya9qe1Hdl+COsubrbPRk5YQiOg== =jzF7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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(No Subject)
by Benjamin Chad Wienke 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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No Subject
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

F7

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SMTP forgeries
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What is the state of the art with SMTP mail forgeries? It seems that the forwarding SMTP agent can determine the senders IP address. I am wondering if this could be prevented by using IP level spoofing to put fake return IP address on the TCP/IP connection to the receiving mail hubs SMTP port, in that the sender does not really need the information the SMTP hup sends back. This would then be a variant of the IP spoof attack. What would be needed would be a site which blindly accepted the one sided traffic from the receiving SMTP hub where it thought it was replying to the traffic. eg. Sender says: HELO nsa.gov 250 locahost Hello locahost [127.0.0.1], pleased to meet you The sendmail seems to be trying to be clever doing a reverse name lookup, and ignoring what you tell it on the HELO line. The 250 reply is not required by the sender. MAIL FROM: nobody(a)nsa.gov 250 nobody(a)nsa.gov... Sender ok RCPT TO: joe(a)acme.com 250 joe(a)acme.com... Recipient ok DATA 354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself asdfasdfasdf

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Copyrights and Wrongs, from The Netly News
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

********* http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1588,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) November 20, 1997 Copyrights and Wrongs By Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) If you think nothing of trading copyrighted software with your friends, think again. A new law passed by Congress will make even casual copyright breach a crime punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and five years in a federal prison. While you're cooling your heels in Club Fed, you'll have plenty of time to consider your misdeeds -- which in this case could have been making just three copies of Adobe Photoshop (cost: $389). The legislation covers anyone who copies compact discs, videocasettes or computer software worth at least $1,000. The No Electronic Theft Act, which President Clinton is expected to sign later this month, will be the first law in the history of the U.S. to imprison copiers looking to save (not make) a few bucks. The President's signature will come not a nanosecond too soon for the software and recording industry lobbyists who have demanded this legislation for years. "The function of the criminal copyright law is to deter people from commercial-scale piracy, just as it is to penalize those who prosecutors take to court," says Mark Traphagen, vice president of the Software Publishers Association, the software industry's largest trade organization. [...] ------------------------- Declan McCullagh Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

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Call for Papers: The 3rd Mac Crypto/ internet commerce workshop
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:36:19 -0800 To: mac crypto list <mac-crypto(a)vmeng.com> From: Vinnie Moscaritolo <vinnie(a)vmeng.com> Subject: Call for Papers: The 3rd Mac Crypto/ internet commerce workshop Sender: <mac-crypto(a)vmeng.com> Precedence: Bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Its that time again folks. I am starting to put together the 3rd Mac Crypto/ internet commerce workshop. The dates should be around the last week of Jan 98, most likely at in Apple, Cupertino, (unless something changes) This year looks like it will a really hot ticket. >>>>>>>> I am looking for folks to talk, papers etc.. <<<<<<<<< This years goals are to: 1) Provide a place for developers to learn how they can embed crypto support into thier MacOS / Rhapsody products today. 2) Give developers a chance to show off some of the work that has been done in the past year. 3) Plan what needs to be done and talk about product oppertunities. 4) Give the developers a chance to tell Apple and other vendors what they want to see in the future. to see what we have done the past two years, please check out the webpage at http://www.vmeng.com/mc/ . I should be posting a preliminary schedule, formal announcements and registration form shortly. Vinnie Moscaritolo http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/ Fingerprint: 3F903472C3AF622D5D918D9BD8B100090B3EF042 1 if by land, 2 if by sea. Paul Revere - encryption 1775 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNHNb3tixAAkLPvBCEQISvgCdG64v3uFhudPPEHHXxOyyvMoWLTYAoLx+ BZ4Q95KF7d8HWFfyrbbCE1pj =Su9T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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Re: Factor a 2048-bit number
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Antonomasia wrote: >The wording of the original challenge suggested there was a trick to >this particular factorisation. That is exactly right. Hint 3 is more like an insight a puzzle solver would have rather than that of a mathematician. When you have this insight you will know it. If you want me to post Hint 3, just ask. You'll have a good laugh if you get it yourself, though. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNHXyUpaWtjSmRH/5AQFAaQf9G1maM+b9pd68VGCyotMk9MSEc4yCVsos KrKrcUgaEQrjrWlH2HB1Qosuc42fubREzKZVdUxREIM05STEJsTKJl1AK4qeU5L9 hkHBMUFNWGbp7BuXiN0+CRx802vxyoFNdFJv8sxGBbPZebmR6OqaeTSOwswmaJ7J 6JwA1ZXle4n8cBR0d5C0NfjEnj0j7//pFHh+6mxJbNiLfBlNQp4qPRhEX/asq/UU Mlk2Yd1INGvCMcrJzOgQL4fb9WoNs42vDQ9Bm8LwJzIGGG1nwzI7Vs0jtHJeC1r7 +kMo1wXDcM9sVQJhBjgoI4cvARtHh5x4D+pN/6Tz3r8YwxZ6dyieYQ== =PD9O -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: The Illusion of Freedom
by nobody＠neva.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Monty Cantsin wrote: >However, most people who engage in war are not in any sense free and >the single most apparent feature of life in a military organization is >the elimination of freedom and privacy. > >It is most often the case that in order to wage war, one must first >become enslaved. Those who wage war are rarely the slaves. Those who die usually are. The "cannon fodder" you mentioned. Gives new meaning to to phrase "...give me liberty, or give me death." Nerthus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNHJy7eFWwZe05jcJAQHwPwf/c6s/6rWtmsaMIgVrFVqQOsxaSPx8XBnP 0dzZxX6VgMzI3Pi1wztEmw1mcHtQxosyI81mKqlb+TkXV7epxdc0LBYP/sKcMctw jw5hzZnkrEqiH9fyFXIjXPhesuerKk8FRPV8kSa7YH14X/NliXrHiS9mnr9J5E9c xXTO6VRrzERZjeNSG1mwfSdTIK22QVmOLvOFqHgNwREGKH5zGJvxLCokVF3QiswI xbnz4FpQdG5rU6vxXIC/y9Tby32g4DI4i2EQG26Li79/EfoXXWrcx7kiTm3FDUHy VN4lxsjytUV0Qow34pESCnXVkvP7gDlmV4NYC7sLe4E+OUpzpKfpJQ== =XYXW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Forwarded mail...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:24:12 +0100 (MET) > From: nobody(a)REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > Subject: Re: The Great Awakening (fwd) > Jim Choate wrote: > >No, "The Second Great Awakening" which happened to be followed by "The Third > >Great Awakening". > > > >You didn't read the various posts that I sent out earlier on this did you... > > Uh, Hello? Your post entitled "1st Great Awakening" describes the exact > same thing that I called simply, "The Great Awakening." It was not, as you > say above, the 2nd one. They are they same if we ignore the fact that there is 50+ years between the 1st (1700-1750) and the 2nd (1800-1850). > I did read the various posts you sent. I don't know who chose the names for > the 2nd and 3rd "Great Awakenings", but they don't seem to have much to do > with religious revivalism like your "1st Great Awakening" and what I (and > the definitive Norton Anthology) refer to as simply "The Great Awakening." > > Nerthus Then you should go back and read them some more. In fact, if you still have the originals they include in the header the URL where I got the data from. Take the 10 minutes and go over and take a look at them. All three were related to religous revivalism in one form or another. The 1st (which itself some consider to be the second occurance of a previous movement as indicated in the title) did not occur in the 1800's which was the original precis that somebody threw out I did some looking around as well and other then Norton, yourself, and whoever it was that made the original claim all references I can find to the Great Awakening refer to the 1700-1750 event(s) as the first one to occur in the America's. If I can find my Norton Anthology I'll take a look at it, though it is 15+ years old. > >Subject: 1st Great Awakening > [...] > > X-within-URL: http://www.fourthturning.com/html/great_awakening.html ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > The Great Awakening (Second Turning, 1727-1746) began as a spiritual ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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internet access monitored and censored
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** my email is david.f(a)mailexcite.com Hi all please help me, this is the problem our network admin is monitoring our internet access for "bad sites" detection he is also blocking many of these sites he is also (again !) blocking ports 8000-9000 (for public http proxies) and 3128-3130 for public squid caches what to do than ? please if you know a public proxy accessible under a port not in the blocked range, or if you know a proxy or a search engine with SSl enabled please email that to me *** my email is david.f(a)mailexcite.com *** really sorry for using a remailer, i cant access my mailexcite account cause he may sniff my password *** but i'm sure of one thing, he is not subscribed to this list ;-)

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Re: The Great Awakening (fwd)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >The effect/influence of SAD has been shown in the past to be much >greater during high levels of El Nino activity. > >TAT#3207/coe Jim Choate wrote: >No, "The Second Great Awakening" which happened to be followed by "The Third >Great Awakening". > >You didn't read the various posts that I sent out earlier on this did you... Uh, Hello? Your post entitled "1st Great Awakening" describes the exact same thing that I called simply, "The Great Awakening." It was not, as you say above, the 2nd one. I did read the various posts you sent. I don't know who chose the names for the 2nd and 3rd "Great Awakenings", but they don't seem to have much to do with religious revivalism like your "1st Great Awakening" and what I (and the definitive Norton Anthology) refer to as simply "The Great Awakening." Nerthus >From: Jim Choate <ravage(a)ssz.com> >Subject: 1st Great Awakening [...] > X-within-URL: http://www.fourthturning.com/html/great_awakening.html > > The Great Awakening (Second Turning, 1727-1746) began as a spiritual > revival in the Connecticut Valley and reached an hysterical peak in > the northern colonies (in 1741) with the preachings of George > Whitefield and the tracts of Jonathan Edwards. The enthusiasm split > towns and colonial assemblies, shattered the 'old light' > establishment, and pitted young believers in 'faith' against elder > defenders of 'works.' After bursting polite conventions and lingering > Old World social barriers, the enthusiasm receded during King GeorgeÆs > War. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNHRZO+FWwZe05jcJAQFsAgf7BPYUwqK0cPp6eVHtS6lfDwS8qz23FX9s AxVfv73Yf5Y77Bc3SfPoT3BuGaaQ18mew3DMvC7uNWVdvi2wDDeNcbjZrdkNzizM 5alu/Woyf8nh8R5n7W9ZrRX0QDLDt35kh+TIvmgVUzzI/BgpT+bOBMvmcWQEqoGD bFo63V/0b4X0H1UvD43hQu/vPZ7bqXeusclJduAK6wN7IrY/oP8yobAt50Lg6IOE iXToO3Sk/D4/xpIvhTBQJcKs2B8qGdBlGKeg8MhNQovPwfMDcqgn/E+UDV0/NWvE 1gDiZ7zNC7MRQSPb8tNRPFUjeXWoAqRslLKJkxkCB8tbRQ2KjjWhLQ== =Vg92 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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ECC Challenge
by amp＠pobox.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hmmm... A cracking challenge that doesn't appear to be snake oil... As reported in PCweek Found at http://www.certicom.com/challenge.htm Certicom Packs more than a Decade of Research into its ECC Challenge Certicom has created and launched an ECC Challenge, giving cryptographers and mathematicians who are new to the Elliptic Curve Cryptosystem (ECC) the benefit of hands-on experience with elliptic curve algebra. The Certicom ECC Challenge is the result of research and development into ECC by Certicom's cryptographic experts. The Certicom ECC Challenge, posted at Certicom's web site, is expected to draw participation from cryptographers and mathematicians around the world, giving them the opportunity to work with elementary elliptic curve algebraic problems and test their own knowledge against what are internationally recognized to be difficult and infeasible problems. "We believe the Certicom ECC Challenge is a great way for those cryptographers and mathematicians who are looking to expand their knowledge of elliptic curve algebra to form a strong appreciation for the security of ECC," said Dr. Scott A. Vanstone, Certicom's Chief Cryptographer. Participants in the Certicom ECC Challenge must try to compute an ECC private key at a particular key size, given the corresponding ECC public key and a set of parameters. As a lead-up to the Challenge, Certicom has included a set of Exercise problems, the simplest of which should be solved in a matter of hours following the Challenge's launch. Prizes will be awarded for the first correct answer to each of the Exercises. Mathematical software to facilitate cryptography-related computations and a copy of the Handbook of Applied Cryptography will be awarded for the 79 and 89-bit Exercises, and US$5,000 for the 97-bit Exercises. Prizes have also been set for both Level I and II Challenge problems, including those which are considered infeasible based on current knowledge and available computing capabilities. The highest prize is US$100,000 to find a 359-bit ECC private key. The elliptic curves for the Level II Challenges meet the stringent security requirements imposed by forthcoming ANSI banking standards, specifically ANSI X9.62 and X9.63. Visit Certicom's web site for ongoing status report of the ECC Challenge. Go to the Certicom ECC Challenge For more information about ECC, check out Certicom's ECC Tutorials and Whitepapers. === E-mail: amp(a)pobox.com Date: 11/21/97 Time: 04:36:03 Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL #!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1 lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/) Have you seen http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum ===

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Jim Bell's Sentencing Delayed Again
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Bell was scheduled to be sentenced today at 9:30 AM. I called the court's ever-helpful administrative office (1-253-593-6754) for a report and was told that sentencing had been postponed until December 12, 10:30AM. Other info: Mail sent to Jim (not by me) since his request for books has been returned twice that I know about Books sent to Kitsap County jail, where he was first incarcerated, was returned marked "Not in Jail." After this an inquiry to the court was made about Jim's location (not by me) and it was learned that he had been transferred to Federal Detention Center at SeaTac, WA. A letter sent there recently was returned unopened, marked "Return to Writer." The court docket today at 8:00PM does not list his relocation nor the new sentencing date. However, entries usually appear a day or so after an action: http://jya.com/jimbell-dock3.htm Perhaps one of our legal subscribers could comment on what's going on with these repeated delays in sentencing, especially whether it's common to do so after a plea agreement is reached. Now, scuttlebutt: a person at a Seattle legal document service told me today that another case is coming up similar to Jim's that also alleges "intimidation of IRS officials." Whether that relates to delays in Jim's case is a mystery inside an enigma.

11 16

Re: Report on UN conference on Internet and racism
by nobody＠neva.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Anonymous <nobody(a)replay.com> wrote: >Actually, many studies have found that immigrants, legal and illegal, >make a net positive contribution to the economy, even considering >their access to government services. Anyone who has worked with >these people knows that most of them work harder than native born >Americans. > >Even aside from the strictly economic balance sheets, giving these >people the opportunity to succeed in a free country is a significant >moral benefit which must count in favor of free immigration. > >They also serve to make our country more multi-cultural, with greater >awareness and appreciation of the value of alternate customs and >lifestyles. We develop "hybrid vigor", as our culture is cross >fertilized by elements from all around the world. The result is an >incredibly dynamic and flexible culture, which is why the United >States will continue to be a world leader for the next century. These are all excellent points. If people are successful in forming strong cross border relationships, it may no longer be meaningful to describe one country or another as a "world leader". >Of course, this gift of diversity causes immigrants to be hated and >feared by racists such as Tim May, who sees them only as targets to >mock with threats of murder: > >> Ironically, the authorities are refusing to enforce the immigration >> laws. This is why the militias here in California have been forced >> to deal with illegal immigrants in the only way left to >> them. (There's a hunt in Imperial Valley this coming Saturday.) He may be a bastard, but he's *our* bastard! ;-) Seriously, I think you are doing yourself a disservice to characterize Tim May as a mere racist. His views are obviously more complex and interesting than that. In this case, he is making a joke. I think. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNHN0xJaWtjSmRH/5AQHzdgf+P0E375vWVovGPwO2ktrDxEaw9OraP5ua 7o8a4nBoyYmt260hLsi8hjl9Ae4qjFQIQvDJ5JMlWgS4VOWOCjvOkAs7LG4Vnxk7 8/AvxzcBWL5XjNMNbvvDpRb+fPvEffovYT/8E/EN5aePRvqtSq7YifwqbRWuYraF PEOYqs4am/v68uLg4N0rb3uomfgr+C/WqOEPd1jMYkjnUIJg9k+Br+HGqCNFgsfN T15b4jaKN5nGsaANiXY9E87WTxpXuXBzmyfLea4I/AuB36m7/kdCm5CyObFFMpSE 2lueUotU/shH3dBWdEwbKLmsVyyx4AxJ7iRPRx+qJF9V3Z5QnIfPRg== =7QR5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Scientology war update
by Tim Griffiths 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Wired has a good article on how the war of words on alt.scientology.religion has split over into dawn raids and hardware seizures: http://www.wired.com/wired/3.12/features/alt.scientology.war.html If this is what can be achieved, think what can happen when the government _really_ puts its back it suppression. Time to PGP every file I own... Tim -- Dr Tim Griffiths is in real life t.griffiths(a)ic.ac.uk Vmail on (0)-1392-264197 Public key available - finger tim(a)tim01.ex.ac.uk - Nothing is trivial -

7 6

Re: Nobuki Nakatuji
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jonathan Wienke wrote: >Due to his distinctive writing style, John Young should probably have >his anonymous posts translated into English by Nobuki if he truly >wishes to remain anonymous. Good god, Jonathan, you trying to get the JY-box TWA 800ed on CIA-TV Barney? Send fee for using TM nym. Spoofing persistent identities, writing style, secret thoughts and hidden agendas are adult-nut-rated kid's stuff here, the weirdo pitches the easiest of all, especially the puretext missionary position in white socks style of blackhearts which ever vaunts itself best See Jane Read Spot. Who do you think "John Young" is if not a machinic composite of all previous, current and conceivable and abortable of cpunks, and pseudo-cpunks, extra bile-sauced with apish objective journalism gone stale, foul, rancid and roadkill tastier, by all the crazed truly knowns and unknowns passing through claoked in incredibly ordinary, goofily Anglicized, hide-shame names of the world's English-imitating kill-native cultures. To wit: "John Young," no other vapid pseudonym have ever been so often used to hide god's evilist holies. Except the other subscribers.

2 1

Re: Copyrights and Wrongs, from The Netly News
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Congress has voted to make not-for-profit copyright infringments a federal felony, as I write in my article at: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1588,00.html A Federal court in _LaMacchia_ noted that: "Since 1897, when criminal copyright infringement was first introduced into U.S. copyright law, the concept differentiating criminal from civil copyright violations has been that the infringement must be pursued for purposes of commercial exploitation." This now changes. For the first time in the history of the U.S., nonprofit (noncommercial) copying is a crime. When doing research for the story I stumbled across this quote, from the Supreme Court in Dowling v. United States, 473 U.S. 207 (1985): ...Interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: "Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner..." [...] The infringer invades a statutorily defined province guaranteed to the copyright holder alone. But he does not assume physical control over the copyright; nor does he wholly deprive its owner of its use. While one may colloquially like infringement with some general notion of wrongful appropriation, infringement plainly implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion or fraud. -Declan ------------------------- Declan McCullagh Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

1 0

police state rumors
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

------- Forwarded Message >>The following is an UNCONFIRMED RUMOR. If you have any information >>to confirm or deny these statements, please post and cc: >>safety.security(a)cancomm.com. As always, please specify your sources as >>precisely as possible. Thanks, Wes Thomas >> >>-- Forwarded -- >> >>To all, >> >>This e-mail came to me by way of public user in a public library. There was >>no use in replying to this party for he would probably not be the one to >>receive my reply. I cannot verify the facts as presented in this post, but >>I'm sending this out for comments. Anyone with further information on this >>situation please forward it through your network and cc: me a copy at >>safety.security(a)cancomm.com. >> >>Best Regards, >> >>Al Colombo, Editor >>Safety & Security Magazine >>safety.security(a)cancomm.com >>http://web.raex.com/~colombo/ >> >>>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:47:18 -0800 >>>From: *** Public PC User -- Library Documents <user(a)***.edu> >>>Subject: military weapons issud to police depts. >>>To: colombo >>> >>>I'm a former cop with 16 years of experience including intelligence, >>>SWAT, tactical operations, criminal investigations. >>> >>>Police depts. are receiving free of charge from the Defense logistics >>>Agency all kinds of military pattern small arms. these include m-16's >>>(full auto kind), ammo, and even bayonets. Also included is webb gear, >>>ammo pouches, ponchos, night vision devices and passive infra-red and >>>thermal imaging night sights or night vision devices. >>> >>>Sources of mine in the State of WA., say that many PD's are now training >>>in advanced small unit tactics involving MOUT scenarios at the Yakima >>>Army Training Center. MOUT deals with street fighting in an urban >>>warfare context. >>> >>>In addition, automatic weapons instruction (small arms) is also given to >>>these units at the training center and some units report Army >>>instructors (mostly special forces types) are instructing them in long >>>range snipe fire and concenalment mehtods, including reconnaisance and >>>intelligence gathering in the field. >>> >>>Now here's the kicker. The WA. State Criminal Justice Training >>>Commision is allegedly (good source on this) considering expanding the >>>police academy curriculum and training hours from the present 440 hrs. >>>to twice that amount. Civil unrest and street fighting tactics are to >>>be included in the new blocs of instruction. Additional emphasis on >>>sniper and full auto weapons training and intelligence gathering >>>missions, plus joint tactical doctrine in order to facilitate working >>>with military units may also be included. I hear other states are to >>>join in with the same agenda to be implemented. >>> >>>Sources with WA. State Emergency Management Services report that the WA. >>>State Patrol is now designated the LEAD co-ordinating agency for all >>>WAs. State police operations in the event of an emergency and in >>>co-ordinating these operations with elements of the National Guard and >>>US regular Army! >> >>*********************************************************** >>EWAR-L Electronic Warfare Mailing List >>To unsubscribe or subscribe: send a message to majordomo(a)sonic.net >>with the following text: unsubscribe EWAR-L or subscribe EWAR-L. >>To post messages, send to: <EWAR-L(a)sonic.net>. Previous posts: >><http://www.sonic.net/~west/ewar/digest.htm>. EWAR Web site: >><http://www.sonic.net/~west/ewar/ewar.htm>. >>-Wes Thomas <west(a)sonic.net>, list owner >> > > >`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` >This Hyperborea message was transmitted by or redirected from: >onelight(a)eznet.net >... >[*]^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[*] >| The Galactic Courier @ Hyperborea | >| Internet News Tabloid for the Galactic Guilder | >| Metaphysics & Mischief in Cyberspace | >| ___"all the news that's fit to post!"___ | >[*]_____________________________________________________________________[*] > - - --------------5E8B804B1B913D9C90795D2F-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message --===========================_ _= 9575805(248)--

2 1

Re: RESULT: comp.org.cauce passes 548:122
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

devin(a)premier1.net (Devin Ganger) wrote: > : If an address points back to a real address, then it's not *ANONYMOUS*, > : though. > > I think you're pushing an unrealistic and overlarge definition of > anonymity here. > > Anonymous simply means that I don't know the real identity of the person, > and that I have no easy way of ascertaining that knowledge. However, I > can still deal with that anonymous persona *as* that anonymous persona. > > Two-way anonymous remailers fit that description. So would a message through a TRUE anonymous remailer (not a nymserver) that was PGP-signed with the same key used for other posts. In fact, it would provide a more reliable correspondence between the post and its anonymous author than relying on a mere From: address in the header. Yet the proponents of the CAUCE proposal insisted on a repliable (and mailbombable, spammable, etc.) address. Why? > What you and others are talking about when you discuss anonymity is > something far beyond that -- you're talking about a complete > disassociation between the speakers and their words (or posts). Whether > one calls that "privacy" or "irresponsibility" is a flamewar of a > different color, and totally beside the point. It is a concept that > certainly *contains* anonymity as a necessary pre-condition, but it goes > far beyond the bounds of anonymity. "Anononymous but traceable" is an oxymoron that necessarily depends on trusting a person who "holds the secrets". The security of the anon.penet.fi remailer, for example, depended upon the ability of its operator to defend the security of its database against attacks from powerful, censorious elements such as the "Church" of $cientology. Ultimately, it was unable to do so and chose to shut down rather to incur expensive litigation in defense of the privacy of its clients. Not trusting such traceable schemes to protect one's privacy does not "go far beyond the bounds of anonymity". Calling any such scheme true anonymity is nothing but SNAKE OIL. The "fortress 'nym server" in which the operator is not only personally trustworthy but also possesses the ability to defend against any and all external attacks on the integrity of its identifying database simply does not exist in the real world. The fallacious assumption at work here seems to be that the validity of an idea is somehow dependent on the identity of the messenger conveying that idea. Thus, the notion of "2+2=4" may not be valid if the identity of the person stating it cannot be verified. Personally, if I got a knock on my door at 2 AM warning me that my house was on fire, I'd investigate it, even I didn't know the person warning me. > In this case, it seems that the *intent* behind the comp.org.cauce > proposal was to allow anonymity in an environment that also allowed some > level of accountability, which the total privacy thing necessarily > lessens. And, again, whether or not the means they chose to pursue that > intent were duplicitous or not is a flamewar for other days and > newsgroups. The fact that identification through a unique, non-forgeable PGP signature on each post was rejected but a repliable e-mail address was accepted as that form of "accountability" casts doubt on the true motives behind this requirement, though. Real world experience on the internet should teach any objective observer that a repliable e-mail address is no guarantee of "accountability". The presumption is apparently that any perceived misbehavior can be remedied by either killfiling the person's e-mail address, or Net-copping the individual and harassing his/her sysadmin into cancelling the account. But how often have we seen Usenet spammers who can acquire new accounts faster than the old ones can be killfiled or nuked? --

1 0

Apology -- FBI abduction story
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I am sorry for the recent interruption of the cypherpunks mailing list. I was abducted by the FBI along with my computer. They are accusing me of sponsoring seditious libel against the government. They let me go after I explained them that the Cypherpunks Crack Force from the Mayonnaise Mountain is ready to mount Million Man Assault against Washington, D.C. Seriously, it happened because the DNS records for algebra.com got screwed up. I am sorry. It is not going to happen again in the near future. igor

3 2

Re: Factor a 2048-bit number
by Antonomasia 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Monty Cantsin > Hint 2: There is an observation which suggests the number may be > factored. A one word hint will reveal this observation. > (I want to hold off on Hint 3 for a little while in case somebody is > already working on the problem. If anybody wants me to withhold Hint > 3, please post a message to the list and I may do so. It seems to me > that it will be more fun to solve without Hint 3.) > Wouldn't it be neat to actually factor a 2048-bit number which was the > product of two large primes? The wording of the original challenge suggested there was a trick to this particular factorisation. My guess that q=p+2 was wrong, so square rooting (cheap) and using the 2 nearest odd integers was a loser. -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant(a)notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ##############################################################

2 1

List still active???
by phelix＠vallnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I know that the listserver at algebra.com is down. Are the other servers still working? Is anybody out there? -- Phelix

2 1

No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I factored a 2048 bit key and all I got was Jerry Springers' "Too Hot for Television" videocassette and this bumber sticker, "I Brake For Illegal Immigrants" -Joe7

2 1

Re: [cpe:4985] State Department Advisory Group
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert Hettinga wrote: > > I'm surprised they don't want a sperm sample, too. > --- begin forwarded text > To expedite admission for those of you wishing to attend, please provide > your name, affiliation, address, telephone number, date of birth and social > security number by close of business, Wednesday, December 10. Joe Smith, Joe Smith Organization, 123 Joe Smith drive, Smithville, JS, (JOE) JOE-SMITH, JO/ES/MITH, JOE-SMITH-JS, <squirt-squirt>.

1 0

Further Costs of War
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- A few more comments on World War II. Had World War II been prevented, along with deaths of 50 million or so people, we would also have been spared (in the United States) income tax withholding. Previously the only people paying income tax were fairly wealthy and there was no withholding. I doubt very much that income tax withholding would have been accepted if the War were not used to justify it. ("You don't want to pay taxes? What are you, a traitor?") Without income tax withholding, it would have been hard to get to the point where we are now. The U.S. Federal government consumes about 40% of the GDP. When the resources aren't wasted outright, they are used to perpetrate evil in the world. To put this in perspective, multiply your income by 1.4. For example, if your income is $50,000, that would be another $20,000 you would have every single year. Where could you spend that money? If you simply saved it at 3% a year, in 30 years you would have about $950,000. That's all for doing exactly what you do now. Who needs national health insurance? Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNHX525aWtjSmRH/5AQF3TQf+LWjfFPOsg3oOk2B00v9gFCiQumz7ZELg o+JFTi9sepLrhAnA7GdsnzPU2yPmJ5Q9w0j08AaBCEb29a7FNt/xX18V2XUGav9J KWVK1CTDTLBeC1iX8rUhnqhidV/pIZjIg860LllEg7T8jdQfwaaz+EeoH/egod6f C2Nd8D9wFlyGGxh992stC5/aicxTxwzVX9UgAox5iwdQIE0WEFRj+KAoBAfd+v6t BQ0qhLVpHmGKRnLO4I2IYXBwzIvzRtOcYAGcy7A/k/XbVSvKs9I7vHMhJAFUDqWw RECgxQKtKy1DK1S/xOed5oW/m52YvvIez2NDLsYoGAVeCuLNJja5Xw== =xefg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

Good recent books on encryption, privacy, etc.?
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Sender: ddfr(a)shell9.ba.best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:39:58 -0800 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications <CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications <CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> From: david friedman <ddfr(a)BEST.COM> Subject: Good recent books on encryption, privacy, etc.? To: CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM I am getting ready to teach my seminar on Computers, Crime and Privacy again, and wondering if there is something new that I should substitute for _Building in Big Brother_. Are there any recent books that have a reasonably accessible treatment of encryption, the controversy over regulation, etc.? For that matter, are there any good recent books on computer crime? I may end up simply substituting in a lot of URL's, but I thought it was probably worth including some old technology as well, if available. David Friedman Professor of Law Santa Clara University ddfr(a)best.com http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

3 2

[Fwd: [cpe:4980] Factoring a 2048 bit key]
by Electronic Forgery Foundation 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. Hettinga, The Electronic Forgery Foundation's legal counsel informs us that, as hypocrites, we have a right to sue you for elevation of character for forging posts in our name (even if we did it ourselves when we were drunk and later forgot about it). If our legal counsel confirms this opinion once she sobers up, you can expect to hear from us upon her graduation from law school. (She is currently in Grade Six, so there is no rush for you to consult your own attorney on this matter.) Insincerely, Jess Fission Robert Hettinga Alternate Persona Appointee, Electronic Forgery Foundation Subject: [cpe:4980] Factoring a 2048 bit key From: Robert Hettinga <eff(a)dev.null> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:01:50 -0600 Delivered-To: mailing list cypherpunks-e(a)htp.org Mailing-List: contact cypherpunks-e-help(a)htp.org; run by ezmlm Organization: "Electronic Forgery Foundation" References: <4a1a277e757631dec78e33b98a7bdfcb(a)anon.efga.org> Reply-To: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net Reply-To: eff(a)dev.null Sender: cypherpunks-e-owner(a)htp.org Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Anonymous wrote: > > I factored a 2048 bit key and all I got was > Jerry Springers' "Too Hot for Television" > videocassette and this bumber sticker, > "I Brake For Illegal Immigrants" I factored it and got: > "I want to kill judges." > > - Tim May Go figure...

1 0

What REALLY happened to Flight 800...
by Brian W. Buchanan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Algebra.com is down, so I'm resending this through cyberpass. Gotta love distributed mailing lists. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:50:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" <brian(a)smarter.than.nu> To: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com Subject: What REALLY happened to Flight 800... >From comp.risks: | An article `Windows added to cockpit choices' in Flight International, 5-11 | November 1997, p 25, explains that the US company Avidyne has certificated | an avionics system based on Windows NT. The hardware supplier is Electronic | Designs, who has recently received approval from the FAA (approval for what | is not specified). Avidyne is apparently working on Level-C approval, which | will allow use of its moving-map display for IFR navigation. One of the | benefits is said to be the wide range of interfaces available to other | devices. "Good afternoon, Microsoft technical support." "This is TWA Flight 800. Our avionics system just shit itself! Something about a segmentation violation in the hydrolics interface driver!" "Hmm. Did you try rebooting it?" "Yes, several times! Losing attitude control!" "Hmm. This may require a reinstall of the operating system then. Please hold for a moment while I connect you to one of our reinstallation support technicians." "No! Wait! The center fuel tank's thermostat control dialog is full of random garbage now! *SCREAM* *BOOM*" ... And in today's news, despite a leaked report from the NTSB that it was not "digital sabotage," but a critical bug in Microsoft Windows NT for Avionics that was responsible for the crash of TWA Flight 800, President Clinton has asked Congress to introduce legislation that would enable the FBI to monitor so-called computer hackers more carefully through digital wiretaps and mandatory key escrow, to "save the children from the info-terrorists on the other side of the Bridge to the Twenty-First Century." Microsoft is not commenting at this time, but a source within the company has informed us that a fix for the "center fuel tank bug" will be included in NT for Avionics Service Pack 4, to be released in the first quarter of 1998. -- Brian Buchanan brian(a)smarter.than.nu "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you." No security through obscurity! Demand full source code! 4.4BSD for the masses - http://www.freebsd.org

1 0

HAYEKWEB: M Friedman Interview on Hayek & The Road to Serfdom
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:17:30 -0500 Reply-To: Hayek Related Research <HAYEK-L(a)MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Hayek Related Research <HAYEK-L(a)MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Greg Ransom <Gregransom(a)AOL.COM> Subject: HAYEKWEB: M Friedman Interview on Hayek & The Road to Serfdom To: HAYEK-L(a)MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >> Hayek on the Web << C-SPAN 'Booknotes' Interview with Milton Friedman on Friedrich Hayek and his _The Road to Serfdom_. On the Web at: http://www.c-span.org/mmedia/booknote/lambbook/transcripts/50060.htm Excerpt: "Booknotes Transcript Author: Milton Friedman Title: Introduction to F. A. Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom" Air date: November 20, 1994 BRIAN LAMB: Dr. Milton Friedman, why did you choose or why did they ask you to write the introduction to the F. A. Hayek "Road to Freedom" 50th anniversary ... MILTON FRIEDMAN: ""Road to Serfdom"." LAMB: Yes, that's your title on your book. Why did you do it? FRIEDMAN: The reason they asked me was very clear, because Hayek and I had been associated for a very long time, in particular in an organization called the Montbelleron Society that he founded. The charter meeting was in 1947 in Switzerland. Hans Morgenthau, who was a professor at the University of Chicago when I was there, a political scientist, when I came back from the meeting, he asked me where I had been, and I told him that I had been to a meeting that had been called by Hayek to try to bring together the believers in a free, open society and enable them to have some interchange, one with another. He said, "Oh, a meeting of the veterans of the wars of the 19th century!" I thought that was a wonderful description of the Montpelleron Society. Well, Hayek and I worked together in the Montpelleron Society and we were fostering essentially the same set of ideas. His "Road to Serfdom" book, the one you have there, which was published 50 years ago, was really an amazing event when it came out. It's very hard to remember now what the attitude was in 1944-45. Throughout the Western world, the movement was toward centralization, planning, government control. That movement had started already before World War II. It started really with the Fabian Society back in the late 19th century -- George Bernard Shaw, the Webbs and so on. But the war itself and the fact that in war you do have to have an enormous amount of government control greatly strengthened the idea that after the war what you needed was to have a rational, planned, organized, centralized society and that you had to get rid of the wastes of competition. That was the atmosphere. Those of us who didn't agree believed in what we would call a liberal society, a free society -- 19th century liberalism. There were quite a number of us in the United States and in Britain, but in the rest of the world they were very isolated, indeed. Hayek's idea was to bring them together and enable them to get comfort and encouragement from one another without having to look around to see who was trying to stab them in the back, which was the situation in their home countries. LAMB: The New York Times put on the Op-Ed page your introduction to this edition. Do you know why they did that? What got their attention? FRIEDMAN: I can't answer that. You'd have to ask the people at the New York Times. On the whole, they have in the past not been very favorable to these ideas -- quite the contrary -- but they've been changing. About two or three years ago, they published -- they've turned down many an Op-Ed piece from me, which I subsequently published in the Wall Street Journal or somewhere else. But a couple of years ago, they did publish an Op-Ed piece from me about the situation after the fall of the Berlin Wall, in which my thesis was a very simple one. Everybody agrees, as a result of the experience in the West, that socialism has been a failure. Everybody agrees that capitalism has been a success, that wherever you have had an improvement in the conditions of the ordinary people over any lengthy time, it's been in a capitalist society, and yet everybody is extending socialism. After the fall of the Berlin Wall, there were no summits in Washington about how we cut down government. The lesson from the fall of the Berlin Wall was that we have too extensive a government and we ought to cut it down. Everybody agrees, but yet wherever you go, we have to extend socialism. The summit in Washington was about how you enable government to get more revenue in order for government to be more important, which is exactly the opposite. So socialism guides our behavior in strict contrast to what we believe to be the facts of the world. LAMB: Let me ask you a little bit more about Friedrich Hayek. Who was he? FRIEDMAN: Fritz Hayek was an economist. He was born in Vienna. He started his professional career in Vienna. In the late 1920s, some people in Britain at the London School of Economics were very greatly impressed with the book he had written and with the work he had done, and they invited him to come to the London School. At a relatively young age, he became a professor at the London School of Economics. He spent the 30s and most of the 40s there. Early in the 1950s, he left London and came to the University of Chicago where he was a professor for about 10 years, and then he went back to Germany. He essentially retired to the University of Freiberg in Germany. LAMB: How long has he been dead? FRIEDMAN: He's been dead about two years now, I think. He lived to be 90, and he has an enormous list of books and articles and so on he has published. The "Road to Serfdom," the one we're showing here, was a sort of manifesto and a call to arms to prevent the accumulation of a totalitarian state. One of the interesting things about that book is whom it's dedicated to. It's dedicated "to the socialists of all parties," because the thesis of the book is that socialism is paving the way toward totalitarianism and that Socialist Russia, at the time, is not different from Nazi Germany. Indeed, it was National Socialism -- that's where "nazi" comes from. This was a kind of manifesto and had a very unexpected effect. It was turned down by several publishers in the United States before the University of Chicago published it, and both in Britain and the United States, it created something of a sensation. It was a best-seller. The Reader's Digest published a condensation of it and distributed 600,000 copies. You had a big argument raising about people who were damning it as reactionary against all the good things of the world and people who were praising it and showing what the real status was. It's a book well worth reading by anybody because there's a very subtle analysis of why it is that well-meaning people who intend only to improve the lot of their fellows tend to favor courses of action which have exactly the opposite effect. I think from my point of view the most interesting chapter in that book is one labeled "Why the Worst Get on Top." It's, in a way, another example of the famous statement of Lord Acton that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."" Hayek on the Web is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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Re: Report on UN conference on Internet and racism
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

William H. Geiger III, well known Nativist (if not Native) American, writes: > In <199711192035.VAA20768(a)basement.replay.com>, on 11/19/97 > at 09:35 PM, Anonymous <nobody(a)REPLAY.COM> said: > > >Actually, many studies have found that immigrants, legal and illegal, > >make a net positive contribution to the economy, even considering their > >access to government services. > > Yes and 4 out of 5 doctors in an independent study prefer Buffren. Would > you care to back this up with some actual facts. >From the Cato Institute, a well known libertarian think tank, http://www.cato.org/dailys/4-22-97.html: > Myth number four: Immigrants impose a financial burden on > taxpayers. Immigrants do make somewhat heavier use of means-tested welfare > programs than natives. There have been especially flagrant abuses by > immigrants of particular welfare programs, such as Supplemental Security > Income. But because immigrants tend to come to the United States during > the start of their working years --between the ages of 18 and 35 -- > they make very large net contributions to the two largest income transfer > programs: Social Security and Medicare. When the payroll tax contributions > of immigrants are taken into account, the Urban Institute found that the > foreign born constitute a net fiscal windfall to the public sector of > some $20 billion a year. To the extent that welfare use by immigrants is > a problem, this can be addressed by restricting the welfare eligibility > of immigrants, not by keeping immigrants out. More details can be found by searching for "immigration" on www.cato.org.

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Re: Alternative Apology
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

igor said: >I am sorry for the recent interruption of the cypherpunks mailing list. >The dog ate my computer. Then Joichi Ito ate my dog. > >Igor Igor, Japanese dont eat dog, that is the Koreans and Vietnamese. doormouse

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Tampa Pirate Radio Stations Silenced
by ichudov＠Algebra.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

reuters Florida State News Reuters 20-NOV-97 (TAMPA) -- Federal marshals and local deputies have shut down three Tampa area ``pirate'' radio stations, silencing unlicensed sources of rock music and far-right ideology. Authorities carted off broadcast and studio equipment from all three stations and dismantled a rooftop antenna that stood over one broadcaster's home. One of the stations was operated by 53-year-old Arthur Kobres, who is named in a 14- count indictment alleging violations of national broadcasting laws. Authorities say Kobres used his equipment to broadcast anti-government messages. Also silenced was ``Tampa's Party Pirate,'' a 100-watt F-M station run by Doug Brewer. A third operator who was shut down... 22-year-old Kelly Benjamin... was also arrested for possession of marijuana.

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The 4th Great Awakening
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Read "Speed" by William Burroughs.

2 1

The Subliminal Algebra-Seinfield Conspiracy
by TruthMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Is it a mere coincidence that algebra.com went down and proceeded to send out all received messages in reverse order on the _same_day_ that the Seinfield TV show featured a reverse-order-plot show? Picking up a little corporate spare-change, Igor? JerryMonger

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Secrets you should know
by roddaenterprises＠email.msn.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Order your copy of "Credit Card Secrets" today. For the next 30 days it is being made available for only $9.95. The information you will receive is worth hundreds of dollars a month to you. Just calculate what your finance charges are as we suggested above and you will see that this low price is relatively free. You will get this money back in just a day or two of saved finance charges. We guarantee it! As an added bonus, if you order within seven days of receiving this advertisement, we will include a FREE copy of "Telephone Company Secrets". This alone retails for $9.95 and can save you $50 to $100 a month by showing you how to get the best deals from your phone companies. To convince you that this is information that you should not pass up, we are offering you our special Performance Guarantee! If "Credit Card Secrets" does not save you many, many times the $9.95 cost, return it to us and we will promptly send you a refund. Judging from the many letters of thanks we have received from our customers, we know you too will be completely satisfied and amazed by what "Credit Card Secrets" can do for you. To order, print the form below (or copy it by hand), fill in the information and send it today with your payment of $9.95 to: RODDA ENTERPRISES 6151 Mountain Vista Road Suite #917 Henderson, Nevada 89014 Please send me a copy of "Credit Card Secrets". I have enclosed my payment of $9.95. If my payment is postmarked within seven days, please include my free copy of "Telephone Company Secrets". NAME: STREET/APT #: CITY/STATE/ZIP: PROMOTION CODE: 995TCS3 PLEASE TELL US THE NAMES ONLY OF YOUR WORST CARD COMPANIES - EXAMPLE -- MBNA, FIRST USA, ETC...:

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Re: Jim Bell's Sentencing Delayed Again
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > > At 10:16 PM 11/21/97 -0500, John Young wrote: > >Jim Bell was scheduled to be sentenced today at 9:30 AM. > >[...] > >Perhaps one of our legal subscribers could comment on what's > >going on with these repeated delays in sentencing, especially > >whether it's common to do so after a plea agreement is reached. > It strikes me as peculiar/unusual Everything about Bell's case has been peculiar/unusual. - posts sent to the cypherpunks list _before_ the bust quoting news reports which were dated the following day. - thinly veiled threatening messages directed to Bell/cypherpunks posted to the list mere hours before the bust. - follow-up posts and threatening private emails regarding Bell's case sent to the list and individual cypherpunks from the treasury email system. - two prominent lawyers having their calls to Bell's legal aide attorney after expressing an interest to help in his case. - the 'usual suspects' advising list members to 'be afraid,' to 'chill out,' shut up and lay low. [...] > I'm starting to favor the explanation which suggests that Jim will be > testifying at the trial(s) or before grand juries in other matters - and > that his sentencing is postponed to ensure his cooperation, and that the > defense isn't squealing about the successive postponements because that's > seen as more favorable than receiving a sentence of many, many months in > the event of noncooperation. The events follow a classic pattern as described above. > I'm reluctant to finger anyone as a "snitch" > without knowing more - and this is all speculation - but something looks > funny about what's happening thus far. (It's also possible that he's > physically/mentally incapacitated such that he's not able to participate in > his sentencing, which would explain why the court would be postponing on > its own initiative, and why the defense isn't opposing the continuance.) Incapacitation does not result in an information blackout surrounding the dispensation of the case and a stonewalling of all attempts at contact the defendant. You can bet your sweet ass that Bell's volatile mental stability was not lost on his captors, who would undoubtedly realize that it would not take a great deal of prodding with the proper medications to put him in the same frame of mind that allows police social workers to convince small children that the mayor and the chief of police have molested them in satanic rituals involving circus animals. My guess is that he is currently ratting out each and every one of us for imaginary crimes in return for LEA promises that Comet Hale-Bop has been recalled in order to pick him up. Be alarmed. Be very all-armed! Loch N. Lode

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good work
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Bob, Tim. You guys are doing great. i think that the enemy is confused into thinking that we are feckless juveniles who are at each other's throats and are posing no real threat. excellent. this should give us those precious few extra weeks needed to complete Plan A. also: perhaps you two should get together and re-work your contingency confessions. wouldn't want some of your accusations against one another to accidentally be true! (use Bob's "Toto" nym. be careful not to accidentally Cc: the cypherpunks list!) white team leader -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv Comment: x iQCVAwUBNHa/HRiDTlaqCaKdAQG4rgP9FdcSg3qneEb0N2LWH7QvL/bh3Jp4pyjf N2hEdpj1Og6SztZVwUyeJD+RbmYuKWzrByB3KpPVnSk99ZjftwhLOy+t+AZEGbtu dBlhUxdR/6OjqKD3tqXTWDc3kI4gnqX5bxA2G+MLvQUsXhQr+wwDpfvLxxxstbWu w6nQ9wiEhMQ= =og1a -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: [cpe:5043] Tampa Pirate Radio Stations Silenced (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 00:26:07 -0600 > From: TruthMonger <tm(a)dev.null> > Subject: Re: [cpe:5043] Tampa Pirate Radio Stations Silenced > Authorities say Choates used his equipment to broadcast anti-government > messages. It's 'Choate'. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Tampa Pirate Radio Stations Silenced (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Tampa Pirate Radio Stations Silenced > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:12:17 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > Florida State News > > Reuters > 20-NOV-97 > > (TAMPA) -- Federal marshals and local deputies have shut down > three Tampa area ``pirate'' radio stations, silencing unlicensed > sources of rock music and far-right ideology. Authorities carted Anyone know of a pirate broadcast station where CDR traffic could be re-broadcast? Filter the days traffic and use speech-synth to make it compatible. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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A Challenge to the Violent and Depraved / Re: [cpe:5035] Violence and Depravity (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:18:52 -0600 > From: TruthMonger <tm(a)dev.null> > Subject: A Challenge to the Violent and Depraved / Re: [cpe:5035] Violence and Depravity > A Challenge: If every naysayer/conspiracy theorist whose diatribes > I have read (a small percentage of the total number) would kick > in a couple of bucks, then there would be funds available to > build a truck-bomb corresponding to the alleged OKC bomb, and > to recreate the alleged crime with an abandoned building that > can be found to provide a similar physical target. > We're talking about a few grand, here. Put up or shut up. Anyone > who cares to take on the challenge can cover that on T-shirt > sales alone. > If the re-enactment shows the truck bomb to have been a provably > false scenario, it would be interesting to see a second display > with BATF actors putting explosive charges in the middle of the > building. (And then we can crash a Mercedes into the underground > concrete pillars in Paris, to guage the results.) Black Rock, Nevada would be a perfect place for the test. Many of the high-performance and experimental rocketry groups I am involved in test their birds there. 10 miles in pretty much any direction of nothing... Also, why not simply begin to systematicaly approach each source of materials and ask for donations for a single run test. I am shure there are suppliers out there who would be sympathetic. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Worldwide Caution (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: >From owner-travel-advisories(a)stolaf.edu Sat Nov 22 03:18:55 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:46:22 -0500 From: owner-travel-advisories <owner-travel-advisories(a)stolaf.edu> Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Worldwide Caution Sender: Wally Doerge <76702.1202(a)compuserve.com> To: travel-advisories(a)stolaf.edu Message-ID: <199711191249_MC2-28C9-9FC6(a)compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk STATE DEPARTMENT TRAVEL INFORMATION - Worldwide Caution ============================================================ Worldwide Caution - Public Announcement November 19, 1997 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE Office of the Spokesman In light of events unfolding throughout the world, U.S. citizens traveling or residing abroad are advised to exercise greater than usual caution. Recently there have been numerous incidents and developments that have the cumulative potential of impacting the security of U.S. citizens, businesses and military interests abroad, including the recent convictions of Mir Aimal Kasi and Ramzi Yousef, the murders of four businessmen in Karachi, Pakistan, the terrorist attack on tourists in Luxor, Egypt, and the general situation in the Middle East. While at this time we know of no specific threats to U.S. citizens or interests overseas in relation to the above incidents, we cannot discount the possibility of random acts of anti-American violence, such as drive-by shootings, kidnappings, or bombings. U.S. diplomatic posts worldwide are taking appropriate security precautions. U.S. citizens planning to travel abroad should consult the Department of State's country-specific Public Announcements, Travel Warnings, Consular Information Sheets and regional travel brochures, and refer to the Department's advisories on security awareness overseas. American citizens residing or traveling abroad are encouraged to contact the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate for up-to-date information on security conditions. This Public Announcement expires December 18, 1997. ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- The "travel-advisories(a)stolaf.edu" mailing list is the official Internet and BITNET distribution point for the U.S. State Department Travel Warnings and Consular Information Sheets. To unsubscribe, send a message containing the word "unsubscribe" to: travel-advisories-request(a)stolaf.edu Archives of past "travel-advisories" postings are available at the URL: "http://www.stolaf.edu/network/travel-advisories.html" or via Gopher: gopher.stolaf.edu, Internet Resources/US-State-Department-Travel-Advisories

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Klaas Foundation 1998 Tour
by auto100＠ccusa.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// This message is intended to reach Auto Dealers & Auto Industry businesses only. If you are not an Auto related business and wish to be removed from any future contacts, please reply in the subject area only with the word "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from any future contact. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Attention: Owner - General Manager - Advertising Director The Klaas Foundation for Children Program "What a program! We bought the program and then put 5 sponsors together for the event. We own 7 radio stations and we have done many community projects. As you know, TV and Newspapers never support your efforts due to perceived competition. The Klaas Foundation program was the #1 story on TV and front page on the newspaper. Our sponsors were so impressed and more important, we fingerprinted 400 kids in 6 hours! Wayne Hardy Atlantic Star Radio Group Wheeling, WV "We are the #1 volume Chrysler dealer in Texas and #6 in the country. We are very selective about who we do business with. Mark Bott is a true professional and the Klaas Foundation program is now an every year event at our store. Our customers constantly mention the program. We are proud to be a Klaas Foundation national sponsor! Amy Bowman Grubbs Mid-Cities Dallas, TX "We had over 2800 people in our showroom on Saturday. We fingerprinted over 800 kids and in the midst of this, we sold 35 cars! Mark Bott and Marc Klaas are extremely effective in the promotion of this program and I have re-booked and sent my checks for the 1998 tour." Darren Kirkland Koon's World Ford Hollywood, Florida "I was overwhelmed with the turnout and so proud of my employees and our community. Every one in Omaha thanks me and asks when Marc Klaas will be back. I have committed to do this again next year and Norwest Bank, my cosponsor, said they are in for sure! This program still has my employees high and has spawned huge community involvement on the part of our organization. I have sold many cars to the people that I met during this program and established community, law enforcement and legislative contacts that I would have never had." Gregg Young - Beardmore Chevrolet - Omaha, NE "I represent the Fulton Auto Dealers in Fulton, New York. As their advertising agency, we inspected, made calls, asked questions and brought up what ifs to Mr. Bott when he approached us on the Klaas Foundation program. We had over $400,000 in free press generated and our dealer group has re-book for 1998. We had 650 people at the Town Meeting and have recommended this program to all of our clients without hesitation." JudySchmidt Camilus,NY History During a slumber party in October of 1993, 12 year old Polly Hannah Klaas was abducted at knife-point from her Petaluma, California home. A mass distribution of over 2 billion images of Polly was sent worldwide. She had soon become a symbol of love and lost innocence. The world froze one cold evening in December when the media reported that Polly, "America's Child," the beautiful girl with the warm brown eyes shown smiling in home videos for millions of TV viewers, was not found alive. The country was outraged. The public cried out for change in legislation and pro-action in crime prevention. "Polly was faced with a choice few people ever have to make," said her father, Marc Klaas. "By putting herself in mortal danger to protect her family and friends, Polly has become my greatest teacher." Marc Klaas immediately dove into a campaign to put children higher on the national priority list. With no prior media, political or public speaking experience, he immediately became savvy in affecting pro-active legislation, and sought to advocate children's issues and speak out on crime prevention. The Purpose A 7 day march through your state to affect State and Federal legislation on the following issues. Raising children to the #1 priority in this country. Keeping dangerous people behind bars. Making background checks mandatory for anyone that has unsupervised access to children. ( Teachers, Coaches, Day care workers and any others that work directly with our children.) Become a tour sponsor and join us for this March Across America with Marc Klaas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For additional information to become a sponsor, please contact: Mr. Mark J. Bott, National Program Director Phone 217-529-4174 - Fax 217-529-4172 47 Auto Dealers and an assortment of other retail businesses hosted this program in 1997, so there are many references. If you are interested in bringing Mr. Klaas and the power of this program to your community, please contact us today.

2 1

Get Your Mailbox Stuffed with CASH for the Holidays!
by noreply＠noreply.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I Never Thought I'd Be the One Telling You This... I Actually Read a Piece of E-Mail, And Now I'm Going to Europe for the Holidays! Hello! My name is Karen Liddell; I'm a 35-year-old mom, wife, and part-time accountant. As a rule, I delete all unsolicited "junk" e-mail and use my account primarily for business. I received what I assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted it each time. About two months ago I received it again and, because of the catchy subject line, I finally read it. Afterwards, I thought , "OK, I give in, I'm going to try this. I can certainly afford to invest $20 and, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with creating a little excess cash." I promptly mailed four $5 bills and, after receiving the reports, paid a friend of mine a small fee to send out some e-mail advertisements for me. After reading the reports, I also learned how easy it is to bulk e-mail for free! I was not prepared for the results. Everyday for the last six weeks, my P.O. box has been overflowing with $5 bills; many days the excess fills up an extra mail bin and I've had to upgrade to the corporate-size box! I am stunne d by all the cash that keeps rolling in! My husband and I have been saving for several years to make a substantial downpayment on a house. Now, not only are we purchasing a house with 40% down, we're going to Venice, Italy for the holidays to celebrate! I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much money as we did. You don't need to be a wiz at the computer, but I'll bet you already are. If you can open an envelope, remove the money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank. Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is. If I can do this, so can you! GO FOR IT NOW! .........Karen Liddell The following is a copy of the e-mail I read: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ This is a LEGAL, LOW-COST, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN GET STARTED TODAY! You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash. This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income. This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank! This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for! Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program works perfectly... 100% OF THE TIME! Thousands of people have used this program to: - Raise capital to start their own business - Pay off debts - Buy homes, cars, etc., - Even retire! This is your chance, so read on and get started today! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Basically, this is what we do: We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer). The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include: * $5.00 cash * The name and number of the report they are ordering * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered. To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. THAT'S IT! T he $5.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS! ******* I N S T R U C T I O N S ******* This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! * When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four reports. You will need all four reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. ( I talked to a friend last month who has also done this program. He said he had tried "playing" with it to change the results. Bad idea.... he never got as much money as he did with the un-altered version. Remember, it's a proven method! a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the four reports, take this advertisement and remove the name and address under REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their 50 grand! c. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. f. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. 4. Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the INTERNET! Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists. You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY! 5. For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! ------------------------------------------ AVAILABLE REPORTS ------------------------------------------ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED - ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: _______________________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: TML P.O Box 383 Pacifica, Ca 94044 ______________________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: NDZ & Co. P.O Box 7277 Atlanta, Ga 30357-0277 _______________________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: FML P.O. Box 927603 San Diego, CA 92192-0603 _______________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Marico 2350 Spring Road #30-194 Smyrna, Ga 30080 _______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 10 members with $5............................................$50 2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).....................$500 3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)............$5,000 4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000 THIS TOTALS -----------$55,550 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists. Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade! About 50,000 new people get online every month! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received." * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL be SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! ******* T E S T I M O N I A L S ******* This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM. Frank T., Bel-Air, MD I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!! Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in. Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq. Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return. Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first try!! D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending! Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS

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Jealously Guarded Secrets Revealed.....
by 76311928＠24496.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Increase your income dramatically + gain invaluable knowledge with this cutting edge information. Take control of your life! Do you want to ride?Or do you want to drive???? go to: http://members.tripod.com/~cana2/ See you there!

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A Challenge to the Violent and Depraved
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of explosives will tell you > that two tons of ammonium nitrate, sixty feet from the base > of a tall, reinforced concrete and steel building, will not do > very much more than break lots of windows. You see, ammonium > nitrate is a low velocity explosive compound useful for moving > dirt. A brissance, or shattering effect, on steel and/or > reinforced concrete requires an explosive compound with much > greater explosive velocity.... C-4, several types of commercial > blasting gelatin, even TNT. Speed may be important for efficiency, but don't discount brute force. A sufficiently powerful bulldozer moving at .1 mph could knock down those exposed support columns out front. Likewise a sufficiently strong ammonium nitrate blast can do it. Once the columns fall, the whole front of the building will collapse. Columns like this are built to withstand compressive force from above. Strength against side impact is not the principle design goal. > If you observed the news footage of the Murray Federal Building > after the blast, you may have noticed that the damage was > configured in a semi-cylindrical fashion, rather than the conic > section which would have resulted from a ground placed charge of > sufficient strength. A semi-cylinder IS a conic section. What you may have meant is that the blast should have carved out a spherical section of the building. But of course, once the lower floors are destroyed, the upper floors collapse. So a roughly cylindrical section is exactly what you would expect. > Consider that the placement of the array of charges necessary to > simultaneously shatter several dozen large bearing members in the > building would have required several hours for a well trained > demolition team, not to mention unlimited access to the building > after hours. And you're saying the government did this, when nobody was looking. > Seismographs recorded TWO impacts that day, several minutes apart. This is total bullshit. This fact alone shows that the poster hasn't done his research. Besides, it doesn't make sense. What was supposed to be the purpose of the two blasts? What was supposed to be happening during the "several minutes" between the two blasts? Wouldn't you think people would get out of the building after the first blast? Why didn't any of the survivors report two blasts? What this is, is a garbling of a report of a nearby seismometer showing two ground waves a few SECONDS apart. This can be explained by the building taking a few seconds to collapse. It could be a seismological artifact as well, an echo from a deeper rock stratum. You'd need to get an expert seismologist to analyze the trace. A real expert, not the bogus "explosives expert" who supposedly wrote this. > 6) McVeigh pulled an Oswald. Quit crediting him with success. The idea that McVeigh is intentionally taking the fall for this is a real reach. First, where is his reward? He's going to spend the rest of his life in prison. What is his motivation for not talking, and for getting involved in this in the first place? Also, much testimony has established that McVeigh was deeply affected by the Waco killings, as were many of us. Such a person would not have wanted to cooperate with the government. You have to assume that he was just pretending to be upset by Waco, that this conspiracy goes back for years. Now you've got Nichols involved, and he has to be convinced not to reveal the truth, either. Fortier was involved in the planning, as was his wife. It's a totally unmanageable situation. At least with the Oswald story, they killed the guy who could have spilled the beans. With McVeigh, he or his buddies could talk at any time. It's all speculation built upon improbability. Anybody who believes this stuff is an idiot.

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RE: CIA - Some Questions
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Cypherpunks, In response to your upcoming questions, I have prepared the following materials: > Does the Central Intelligence Agency engage in assassinations? No. Executive Order No. 12333 explicitly prohibits the Central Intelligence Agency from engaging, either directly or indirectly, in assassinations. Interna oversight process assure compliance. > Does the Central Intelligence Agency engage in drug trafficking? No. In fact, the Central Intelligence Agency assists the US Government effort t providing intelligence information to the Drug Enforcement Administration, the the State Department. Regards, J Smith (Esq).

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Re: I have something to say.
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

nobody(a)nsm.htp.org wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:28:02 GMT gburnore+spam(a)netcom.com (Gary L. > Burnore) wrote: > > >On 15 Nov 1997 04:21:40 -0800, rfg(a)monkeys.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) wrote: > > > >: In article <64ajuv$r9(a)newspeer2.dearborn.agis.net>, > >: Harold <harold(a)agis.net> wrote: > >: >I am taking back the statement I made. Not everyone here is pathetic. > >: > >: Gee! That's mighty white of you. > > > >Again with the bigoted, racist remarks, eh? > > > Poor sorry asshole netscum Gary L. Burnore, <gburnore@databasix> <gburnore(a)netcom.com>. > Just can't get over making substantially less money than Ron. > Why the hell don't you layoff Guilmette and get a fucking life for yourself. > Haven't you done enough damage to him and anonymous remailers you fucking piece of shit. > > <cue netscum gburnore lame response> Yeah, but poor Ron doesn't have a criminal arrest record like Gary does, despite Gary Burnore's unproven accusations, "big lie" campaign, crank calls to the FBI, etc. Gary's charges get more and more fanciful. Did you read the one where he accused Ron of abusing some "teenage girl" at DataBasix. Not a shred of evidence for his lies, of course. Fortunately for him, Netcom harbors net abusers and Gary had to suddenly leave California for North Carolina after his arrest in San Francisco. And there's his faithful sidekick, Belinda Bryan <eridani(a)ix.netcom.com>, who's now posting with this forged line in her headers: > Organization: Boycott E-Scrub Technologies. The owner is an admitted spambaiter. This is the same looney maroon netcop who whined when somebody started posting a URL from the AIDS Action League advocating a boycott of Gary Burnore's ex-employer, Wells Fargo Bank in San Francisco. And then Gary has the nerve to call someone "racist" and "bigoted"? These two net abusers richly deserve their NetScum pages: http://www.spambusters.dyn.ml.org/www.netscum.net/burnorg0.html http://www.spambusters.dyn.ml.org/www.netscum.net/bryanb0.html --

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