December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Hate speech and censorship
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dimitri Vulis writes: > Perhaps the state shouldn't be in the business of providing library services > to begin with; then there will be no 1st amendment issue, and if you don't > like the censorware used by a private library, why, use another private > library, or start your own. > > (Nor would there be an issue with private libraries refusing service to > readers who smell bad.) How ironic that Vulis supports the right of private libraries to refuse service to bad-smelling readers, while whining about Gilmore's refusal to allow Gilmore's own private machine to pass Vulis' foul-smelling posts. Private actions are not censorship, and Gilmore had the right to do anything he wanted with toad.com. Likewise list members had every right to move to other hosts. Vulis's infantile name-calling is easily seen to be totally lacking in justification, unsurprising given his demonstrated lack of reasoning abilities on this issue.

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> (Many people here probably remember Fred Cherry - Panix pulled his >plug for >> "homophobia".) >> chris.com pulled the plug on TRRJC3 (Igor's pal) because of content. >I wish you could be a little more specific. >Harrashing email and excessive cross-posting in violation of each >UseNet >group charter is not >censorship. If ISP's censored flames (harrasments, whatever) then we might as well call every ISP AOL. >If someone sends a gay an email saying "I will kill you. Look out for >the >next gay pride parade" that's is legitimate ground for action. What if it was a joke, or a false threat? >> I also wouldn't trust Lance Cottrell. He's selling privacy for the >$$, not >> for the ideology; he'll bend over the moment he thinks there's more >$$ in >> bending over, which is usually the case. >What is wrong selling privacy for money? It usually involves making it shitty. >> Remember how Sameer Parekh's C2Net used to try to peddle a "privacy >ISP" >> because he failed miserable and diversified into peddiling shitty >software >> and making idiotic legal threats? He happily pulled plugs bases on >content, >> while at the same time stating in court papers that he doesn't >censor content. >> What a pathological liar. >I suppose you can back up your claim with documentation. >What court document are you referring as evidence that Sameer Parekh >is a >pathological liar? None is necessary. Parekh is a liar, and just a general tool of c2.net.

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Have some fun
by suzy1＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Fwd: Mother Jones on Microsoft and BSA
by mj＠creative.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's some more on Microsoft. >Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:07:14 -0500 (EST) >Reply-To: love(a)cptech.org >Originator: am-info(a)essential.org >Sender: am-info(a)essential.org >Precedence: bulk >From: James Love <love(a)cptech.org> >To: Multiple recipients of list <am-info(a)essential.org> >Subject: Mother Jones on Microsoft and BSA >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:07:37 -0800 (PST) > From: Richard Reynolds <reynolds(a)mojones.com> > Subject: Mother Jones Microsoft story > >For Release: >December 22, 1997 >Contacts: >Richard Reynolds 415/665-6637 x240 >Kerry Lauerman 415/665-6637 x215 > >Microsoft Blackmails Foreign Companies >Switch To Microsoft, and Your Legal Problems Will Disappear > >Microsoft appears to be using the Business Software Alliance (BSA) to >blackmail foreign companies into making exclusive deals with Microsoft, >reports Mother Jones magazine in a story released last night on the MoJo >Wire, Mother Jones' Web site: > >http://www.motherjones.com/mother_jones/JF98/burstein.html > >When the BSA tracks down companies using software pirated from its >various members, reports Mother Jones investigative reporter Rachel >Burstein, the offender is offered a simple out: Switch to Microsoft >products and your legal problems will disappear. > >* In 1995 the BSA caught Antel, Uruguay's national telephone company, >using unlicensed Microsoft, Novell, and Symantec software. Ricardo >Tascenho, Antel's information technology manager, told Mother Jones the >company settled the matter by signing a "special agreement" with >Microsoft to replace all its software with Microsoft products. According >to Eduardo DeFreitas, the BSA's lawyer in Uruguay, Microsoft's Uruguay >manager, Tomas Blatt, instructed him to drop the suit so that Microsoft >and Antel could "work out a deal for the future." > >* Felipe Yungman, Novell's manager of security for Argentina, says >Novell's investigations also indicate that the BSA has set up sweetheart >deals for Microsoft there. "Companies or government offices had to, as a >condition [that the BSA] forgive them of piracy, replace Novell products >with Microsoft products," he told Mother Jones. > >* In 1996, when the BSA sued the Australian shipping company Toll >Holdings for piracy, the suit alleged that Toll illegally used copies of >programs made by Lotus, Novell, Symantec, and Microsoft. According to >Martin Dunne, Toll's chief information technology officer, other than >keeping Symantec's anti-virus software, they only buy Microsoft now. A >Novell official told Mother Jones that Toll "offered to legalize on all >Microsoft products if [the BSA] dropped the suit." Both the BSA and Toll >deny any impropriety. > >* In Slovenia, where 96 percent of all software is pirated, Microsoft's >country manager, Aaron Marko, is also head of the BSA office. Marko says >that because enforcement is difficult in the country's court system, he >offers discounted > >Microsoft software to companies caught pirating by the BSA. Microsoft >denies that the BSA acts solely on its behalf. But officials at >Novell and Lotus told Mother Jones that they will stop actively >participating in the BSA's programs in Asia and Latin America by the >beginning of 1998. > >Greg Wrenn, senior corporate counsel for Adobe, says his company has >stayed with the BSA, but he acknowledges Microsoft's upper hand: "If an >attorney does Microsoft work and BSA work and never hears from another >company besides Microsoft, he's going to do the work for the guy who's >in his office every week." > >The BSA story is part of a five-part cover package on Microsoft featured >in Mother Jones' January/February issue. ># # # > > >Full Article: > >Overseas Invasion >by Rachel Burstein > >Like Coke, Nike, and the tobacco industry before it, Microsoft now has >to >hook new consumers abroad. But the company has discovered a way to bully >foreign companies into buying Microsoft-and only Microsoft. > >In 1995 Antel, the national telephone company of Uruguay, was caught >pirating $100,000 worth of unlicensed software programs from Microsoft, >Novell, and Symantec. Antel was nabbed by the Business Software >Alliance, a >trade association that partly acts as a global bounty hunter for the >software industry. The BSA's lawyers in Uruguay quickly filed suit. > >But instead of waiting for a ruling on the case, the BSA abruptly >dropped >the suit in the fall of 1997. The BSA receives funding from most of the >top >software companies but appears to be most heavily funded by Microsoft. >And, >according to Antel's information technology manager, Ricardo Tascenho, >the >company settled the matter by signing a "special agreement" with >Microsoft >to replace all of its software with Microsoft products. > >The BSA's lawyer in Uruguay, Eduardo DeFreitas, supports Tascenho's >story: >"Microsoft told me to stop working on the case because they would write >an >agreement with Antel." DeFreitas says Microsoft's Uruguay manager, Tomas >Blatt, instructed him to drop the suit so that Microsoft could "work out >a >deal for the future." Blatt refused to answer questions about the >settlement, claiming, "I don't have any information about the Antel >case. >You should call >BSA in Uruguay-Eduardo DeFreitas." > >Antel's situation suggests that when the BSA cracks down on piracy >overseas, it's Bill Gates who turns out to be the pirate. >Representatives >from rival firms complain that Microsoft is abusing its power within the >BSA to speed its global dominance. > >Microsoft denies that the BSA acts solely on its behalf. "I am not aware >of >any instance where that has happened," says Microsoft attorney Brad >Smith. >And the BSA dismisses the charges; spokeswoman Diane Smiroldo calls them >"hard to believe." But officials at Novell and Lotus confirm that by >January, both companies will have stopped actively participating in the >BSA's programs in Asia and Latin America. Novell says these allegations >played a part in its decision; Lotus refuses to comment. Such concerns >are also among the reasons Netscape is reluctant to join the BSA, says >Netscape attorney Peter Harter. > >The accusations aren't just limited to Uruguay: > >* Felipe Yungman, Novell's manager of security for Argentina, says he >and >another staffer at Novell discovered, while pursuing their own >investigation for the company, that the BSA was setting up sweetheart >deals >for Microsoft. "Companies or government offices had to, as a condition >[that the BSA] forgive them of piracy, replace Novell products with >Microsoft products," he says. > >were bullied by Microsoft, saying that he is trying to convince them to >come forward. "Most of the companies don't want to get involved," he >explains. "They think they need Microsoft. You cannot oblige them to >testify." > >Mario Tucci, Novell's country manager for Latin America, supports >Yungman's allegations. "If you call BSA, you will reach Microsoft," he >says. "They shield Microsoft's actions with the BSA name. It's bad for >us >and [for] the software industry." > >* In 1996, when the BSA sued the Australian shipping company Toll >Holdings >for piracy, BSA lawyer Charles Gonsalves, of the Sydney-based firm of >Mallesons Stephen Jaques, oversaw the case. > >"I generally handle cases for both Microsoft and the BSA," Gonsalves >told >Mother Jones. > >But while the suit alleged that Toll illegally used copies of programs >made >by Lotus, Novell, Symantec, and Microsoft, Martin Dunne, Toll's chief >information technology officer, says the company settled by paying fines >to >only Symantec and Microsoft. And, Dunne says, other than keeping >Symantec's >anti-virus software, the company has made a significant change: Toll >only >buys Microsoft now. > >According to a Novell official, Toll "offered to legalize on all >Microsoft >products if [the BSA] dropped the suit." Both the BSA and Toll deny any >impropriety. While a written agreement between Toll and Gonsalves does >exist, neither party would reveal the terms of the settlement. When >Gonsalves was asked if Microsoft ever paid for his handling of BSA >cases, >he chuckled and said, "That's a confidential matter." > >* In Slovenia, where 96 percent of all software is pirated, the head of >the >BSA office, Aaron Marko, is also Microsoft's country manager. Marko says >that because enforcement is difficult in the country's court system, he >offers discounted Microsoft software to companies caught pirating by the >BSA. Does Marko see this as a conflict of interest, since he also >supposedly represents other software firms? "BSA is trying to find the >pirate. Then it is a question of marketing and product awareness to see >who >will get the legal market share," he says. When asked which BSA members >have local subsidiaries that do local marketing, Marko says only >Microsoft >and Oracle, which is not a direct Microsoft competitor. > >These allegations "raise questions as to whether the BSA serves the >interest of its members or whether it serves its dominant member," says >James Love, director of Ralph Nader's Consumer Project on Technology. >And >for the foreign companies, he says, "these seem to be stories of >blackmail." > >The BSA employs a team of more than 100 lawyers and investigators to >find >cases of software piracy-a crime it says costs the industry $11 billion >a >year. The BSA says it catches "thousands of cases a year," many through >its >55 piracy hotlines, the most famous of which urges employees to "Nail >Your >Boss" by calling. > >While the BSA won't release its funding details, it does say that money >comes from membership dues, which are based on each company's software >revenues. This is one way in which Microsoft dominates the BSA: >Microsoft's >annual revenues, for example, are eight times that of Novell, its >largest >rival. > >In the future, Novell and Lotus say they will use their own in-house >resources for anti-piracy efforts in Asia and Latin America. > >But other BSA members, while concerned about Microsoft's role in the >organization, aren't quite willing to go their own way. Greg Wrenn, >senior >corporate counsel for Adobe, says his company has stayed with the BSA >despite having had some uneasy experiences with Microsoft. For example, >Wrenn says, the Microsoft attorneys who worked for the BSA refrained >from >going after big Microsoft clients caught pirating Adobe products-until >Adobe prodded them. > >Wrenn says Adobe will stay in the BSA, pressuring the organization to >play >fair. But he acknowledges Microsoft's upper hand. "If an attorney does >Microsoft work and BSA work and never hears from another company besides >Microsoft, he's going to do the work for the guy who's in his office >every >week," Wrenn says. > > > >________________________________________ >Richard Reynolds/Communications Director >Mother Jones magazine >415/665-6637 x240 >731 Market Street, 6th Floor >San Francisco, CA 94103 >

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:42:34 -0800 (PST) > From: Mix <mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com> > Subject: Re: Lock and Load > Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Not being a native English speaker, I do not understand the > > > meaning and origin of the phrase "LOck and Load". > > > > It means to lock the rifles safety and load it's chamber in preperation for > > firing at an enemy. It is usualy used in a military context but head-bangers > > and such use it when talking about loading their bongs and I am shure other > > groups use it as well in various contexts. > > > > Wait a second, aren't we supposed to load first and lock later? How > can you load a rifle if it is on safety? Well on my .22 I slide bullets down the loading tube and manualy cycle the bolt. On the M1 carbine I simply insert the clip and cycle the bolt. On a HK-33 or G3 you do the same sort of thing. Those are the ones I know how to work because I have used them. In general the safety locks the trigger and firing-pin mechanism not the loading or chambering mechanism. I don't know of a safety on a rifle that blocks the bolt. But I ain't a gun nut (IAAGN). Revolvers are self-explanatory. Automatics generaly block the trigger and firing-pin mechanism, again not the bolt. Just grab that damn thing above the barrel and pull toward yourself with a loaded clip. When it releases should be loaded and on safety. Certainly works that way on the 1911 that I use on occassion where the hammer action is blocked (hint - don't drop it when cocked and safetied). I don't think I have ever shot an automatic that didn't work that way (all 3 or 4 of them). Again, IAAGN. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Lock and Load
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12/22/97 5:30 PM, mparson(a)smartnap.com (mparson(a)smartnap.com) passed this wisdom: >> Wait a second, aren't we supposed to load first and lock later? >> How can you load a rifle if it is on safety? > >You can load most rifles with the safety on. We loaded our M-16s on >the line while the weapon was on 'safe' all the time. The next >command was always, "Rotate your selector switch from 'safe' to >'semi.' Firers, watch your lanes... fire at will." Most safeties >are just trigger locks that prevent you pulling the trigger, they >do nothing preventing you from sticking in a loaded magazine and >chambering a round. At the risk of thumping upon a well deceased equine carcass, the original expression was "Load and Lock" (admittedly "Load and Lock" rolls off the tongue more easily than the inverse) as there were many weapons whose actions could not be loaded when in the 'safe' position. There are probably as many weapons where this is true as there where it is not. In general it makes most sense to check for safe condition before and after loading. But, to answer the orginal question, it is generally used as a euphemism for "get ready for action" either offensive or defensive. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJ7w2z7r4fUXwraZAQGHtAf/Qi3zmRF6nfW/OxkyiV5gyh+7Yl+HuVnP ri6kmiyI0273h10dz7naAftBTUXUDNLTKyGputK97ApLd1LI8pw0IXJuR4zCs8dn eis5k1jf/RdEX7l3et1PogkeKseC0u0CsPr8kv7xkJcth0Wo5aFCSvGGiIKAAQLO cGOyvdlA1cdA0L5PLizCpAkt5TATDbSpus0uadPOrh/MEv7GcOdaT4eHlKUDL0rJ ypwZt3VQqlkZKf7d7WISt/CicR2HiI1tDlqfqcJasvUvYJNshi0KpASVWCybZ49a wiXytgjo2BlQCDUtCnAn0NH7hP+bqC3W9TaXcGMTyxaLMsUBsKFxTQ== =DHrc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "Journeys are about discovery, about lives touching briefly and then parting, except on the Internet, where distant lives can intertwine, and where a journey of discovery never has to end." -- Jim Heid

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Lock and Load > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 17:59:49 -0500 > From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr(a)together.net> > There are probably as many weapons where this is true as there where > it is not. In general it makes most sense to check for safe condition > before and after loading. Would you be so kind as to give a specific example of a bolt action, semi-automatic, or automatic rifle that can't be loaded on safe? I have never seen a rifle that wouldn't allow this. A parallel pistol example would be nice too, if you're so inclined. Merry Christmas! ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Rich Graves and fight-censorship
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Can someone tell me why Rich Graves was kicked of fight-censorship some time ago? Maybe Rich Graves himself will answer.

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Censorware complaint online
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The complaint in the Loudoun County censorware case is at: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/spoofcentral/censored/ -Declan

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Re: Coercive Monopolism vs Wimpyness
by Antonomasia 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I thought it was time someone totally unbiased commented on this OS war thing! Blanc writes: >And, since Windows OS is so pitifully lousy, why do people continue to buy >it, even without the computer attached; why do they continue to upgrade, >even if it's so slow and bloated? Don't they realize Unix is better? >Don't they realize they're just making Billg richer? We buy computers ordered with blank disks in preference. In fact this one came with DOS and I wiped it on day 1. > Want to parse MS Turd documents? Windows 95 and MS Office. Red Hat's Applixware has had good reviews. Besides I'm happy to return unreadable messages asking for a different format. If the other guy refuses try him with DVI or something. It's different if you're being paid to use Windoze. I'll admit it - I did some Lose95 work today: what was it ? Trying to get a modem link to stay up. I've done more creative things, but not usually under Windoze. > Want to run that program your mother sends you and wants you to run? Quote her the exec format error you got. Ha ha ha. > Happened to buy a printer? It won't say "Yes! It works with Ghostscript!" But you should soon find out from other people. From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr(a)together.net> > Windows (who stole its interface from mac who stole it from xerox) > type GUIs are easier to use than CLIs, it is only since the > entrenchment of GUIs that they have come forth in the Unix/Linux > world. GUI interfaces are only easy for the few things they present you with, after which they are imnpossible. Unless you can connect your "find" and "sed" icons in a pipeline ... In fact I rarely even start X unless it's for the xboard chess game. speaking of which ... Is Unix dying--or even dead? From: "S. M. Halloran" <mitch(a)duzen.com.tr> From Edupage, 18 December 1997: <----------> TACTICAL SHIFT BY WORKSTATION COMPANIES Silicon Graphics Inc.'s plan to allow SGI graphics software to run on Microsoft's Windows NT operating system provides new evidence that a growing number of companies are giving up on Unix and instead standardizing on Windows NT. SGI hopes to be able to use its experience in developing high-end graphics software without having to spend a great deal of time building the underlying technology represented by an operating system. (Washington Post 17 Dec 97) <----------> But SGI never did put any effort into it, which was why their network programs were built on 'rcp' and needed fixing if you (horrors) set a password. > turnkey "office suite" and try to give MS a run for its money. There > is no time like now to get the X-Windows (or GUI-free-from-copyright) > Complete Office bundled together and have a media gathering to make > sure that all the important news organizations are informed. You > should get decent press exposure, since MS-bashing seems to be in > vogue. The Linux or FreeBSD people should select a mediagenic > spokesperson from the group--one with fire in the belly--and then do > the hard work of putting something together that a 25-year old > free-Unix developer's 72-year old grandmother can install to a x86 > box. In fact, your press conference would have real pinache if, in > fact, you put someone's 72-year old grandmother before a PC with an > empty disk drive, run the install, then type a short letter on the > fancy word processer, addressed to Bill G., with the message "Up > yours!" I can think of someone possibly suitable for this last bit. (R. what do you think ?) From: SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> > Unix *is* far better and had the technology decades ago. > Where can I get a laptop without a pre-installed O/S (or with Linux > pre-installed) on it? Try these people. I'm not sure about laptops. : VA Research Linux Workstations | The World's Best Linux Workstations : | Featuring RedHat : http://www.varesearch.com | Now offering VarStation II Systems -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant(a)notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ##############################################################

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The Jewish Defense League doesn't want you to know!
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Recently The Jewish Defense League succeded in shutting the domain ABBC.COM hosting a database of publicly available information of Jews who endorse censorship. The ISP CLEVER.NET forced Ahmed Ramito take off the list without any justifiable reason such as invasion of privacy. Under U. S. law public figures must demonstrate actual malice to recover damages for invasion of privacy and for defamation. But the information is publicly available and not covered by privacy laws in the United States. If you want to review what the extremist Jewish organization JDL doesn't want you to know go to http://www.dejanews.com Use the following search profile: ~a nobody(a)replay.com & Ahmed Rami Download it now and distribute it widely. Remember to download all the article segments! Be aware that The Jewish Defense League was founded by terrorist Meir Kahane whose Kach Movement was labeled a terrorist organization by the U. S. State Department. Related References: http://abbc.com http://www.hatewatch.org http://www.jdl.org

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Filed Friday afternoon
by bill payne 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO William H. Payne ) Arthur R. Morales ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) v ) CIV NO 97 0266 ) SC/DJS ) Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF ) Director, National Security Agency ) National Security Agency ) ) Defendant ) PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT ON BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS 1 COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne [Payne] and Morales [Morales] [Plaintiffs], pro se litigants to exercise their rights guaranteed under the Constitution and Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. As the court may know, Rule 26 (b)(1) Parties may obtain discovery regarding any mater, not privileged, which is relevant to the subject matter involved in the pending action, whether it relates to the claim or defense of the party seeking discovery or to the claim or defense of any other party, including the existence, description, nature, custody, condition, and LOCATION of any books documents, or other tangible thing and the identity and location of persons have knowledge of any discoverable matter. Rule 36 states, Request for admission (a) A party may serve upon any other party a written request for the admission, for the purposes of the pending action only, of the truth of any matters within the scope of Rule 26(b) set forth the request that relate to statements or opinions of fact or of the application of law to fact including the genuineness of any documents described in the request. Copies of documents shall be served with the request unless they have been or otherwise furnished or made available for inspection and copying. The request may WITHOUT LEAVE OF THE COURT, be served upon the plaintiff after commencement of the action and upon any other party with or after service of the summons and complaint upon that party. ... Plaintiffs capitalize WITHOUT LEAVE OF THE COURT. 2 Rule 36 states, {T]he matter IS ADMITTED unless, within 30 days after service of the request, or with such shorter or longer time as the court may allow, the party to whom the request is directed serves upon the party requesting the admission a written answer or objection address to the matter signed by the party or by the party's attorney, ... Plaintiffs capitalize IS ADMITTED. 3 PLAINTIFFS' FIRST SET OF REQUEST FOR ADMISSION TO NSA DIRECTOR KENNETH MINIHAN were served I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing request for admissions was mailed to Jan Elizabeth Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Monday November 3, 1997. More than 30 days elapsed and Plaintiff's have received no response from Minihan or Mitchell. Therefore, Minihan ADMITS 1 NSA is involved in 'spiking' [modifying the advertised intended functions] electronic equipment. 2 NSA 'spiked' Iranian and Libyan cryptographic units so that the cryptographic key was transmitted with the cipher text. 3 Iranian messages were given to Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war. 4 NSA was involved in the conviction, by giving contents of secret messages, of Ali Vakili-Rad and Masour Hendi to the Court in Paris in the trial for the stabbing death of Shapour Baktiar. 5 Minihan knows where copies of intercepted messages are kept at NSA. 4 Requests for First set of Admission were mailed October 13, 1997. More than 30 days has elapsed. No response from lawyer Mitchell or respondents were received by Plaintiffs. Therefore, NSA employee Brian Snow ADMITS 1 He designed the cryptographic algorithm for the Missile Secure Cryptographic Unit (MSCU). 2 NSA funded the MSCU at Sandia labs. 3 In about 1983 he gave a presentation at NSA FANX building to some Sandians involved with the Missile Secure Cryptographic Unit. 4 In the presentation he showed electronic schematics of the units to the Sandians. 5 He told the Sandians about the electronic and operational problems NSA had with the cryptographic units he bought with him. 6 He told the Sandians that one of the cryptographic units failed in the Moscow embassy and transmitted clear text. 7 He concluded his talk telling the Sandians that NSA had no operational failures once NSA went to dual redundant cryptographic units. 8 He told the Sandians not to ask for a theoretical reason why dual redundant cryptographics never failed, in the sense of releasing classified data, but that this was based on practical experience. 9 William H. Payne was one of the Sandians in the audience of his talk. 10 He sat across the table from William H. Payne at lunch in the cafeteria in the basement of the FANX building directly after his talk. 11 He was involved in algorithms associated with the Clipper project. 12 He where the documents specifying the MSCU algorithm are located at NSA. 13 He knows where the documents specifying algorithms associated with the Clipper project are located at NSA. NSA employee Thomas White ADMITS 15 He served as the liaison between NSA and Sandia for the Deployable Seismic Verification System. 16 He forwarded documents such as NSA's Orange book and the public key Firefly chip to Sandia. 17 He told Bill Payne that NSA regarded former president Ronald Reagan as one of the US's greatest traitors. 18 He told Bill Payne that the reasons NSA regarded Ronald Reagan as one of the US's greatest traitors is that Reagan, on TV announced to the world that the US was reading Libyan communications. 19 He Bill Payne that the following day [after Reagan's TV announcement] NSA could no longer read Libyan communications. 20 He knows where the documents specifying Benincasa's correction to the original USO seismic data authentication algorithm are located at NSA. NSA employee Mark Unkenholtz ADMITS 21 He visited Sandia in about 1986-87 with R division employee Ed Georgio to discuss which data authentication algorithm should be used for the US/USSR deployable seismic verification system (DSVS). 22 He and Bill Payne discussed using public key for the DSVS system. 23 He concluded that there were too many problems with public key so it was best to continue using the old Benincasa USO (unmanned seismic observatory) algorithm. 24 In 1989 he and others asked Bill Payne to write a memorandum to NSA deputy director James J. Hearn requesting help from NSA to develop new data authentication algorithms. 25 He did this is because R division needed a letter of support for more funding. 26 The DRAFT letter he asked Payne to write is seen on Internet at jya.com, click cryptome, catch the thread at August 29, 1997, SANDIA REPORT, SAND91-2201 UC 706, Data Authentication for the Deployable Seismic Verification System, Appendix T, Benincasa's Algorithm Deficiencies. 27 He asked Payne to fax the DRAFT letter to his fiancee, Amy Johnston, since NSA did not have fax for unclassified work readily available to use. 28 The "To Mark and Ed, R" on page 183 of SAND91-2201 UC 706 addressed him and his boss boss at the time, Ed Donohue. 29 He told Payne that NSA takes about a year to evaluate an encryption/authentication algorithm before it can be distributed for use. 30 He told Payne, in a response to a question from Payne, that NSA runs crypto algorithms through statistical tests. 31 After Payne wrote the Appendix T memorandum, NSA sent a delegation to Sandia. 32 He and NSA employee Scott Judy designed a replacement algorithm for Beninicasa's USO algorithm. 33 The replacement algorithm was code named GRANITE. 34 The GRANITE design addressed some of the deficiencies in Benincasa's algorithm enumerated in Payne's Appendix T June 21, 1989 DRAFT letter to Hearn. 35 The GRANITE design addressed some of the deficiencies in Benincasa's algorithm enumerated in Payne's Appendix T June 21, 1989 DRAFT letter to Hearn. 36 He knows where the documents specifying Benincasa's to the original USO seismic data authentication algorithm are located at NSA. 37 He knows where the documents specifying his and Judy's GRANITE algorithm are located at NSA. NSA employee Scott Judy ADMITS 38 He met Payne at Sandia sometime after he wrote the DRAFT letter on Internet at jya.com, click cryptome, catch the thread at August 29, 1997, SANDIA REPORT, SAND91-2201 UC 706, Data Authentication for the Deployable Seismic Verification System, Appendix T, Benincasa's Algorithm Deficiencies. 39 He later met Payne again at NSA in a meeting. 40 He told Payne that NSA bases its cryptographer algorithm on principles other than mathematics. 41 He and NSA employee Mark Unkenholtz designed a replacement algorithm for Beninicasa's USO algorithm. 42 His replacement algorithm was code named GRANITE. 43 GRANITE design addressed some of the deficiencies in Benincasa's algorithm enumerated in Payne's Appendix T June 21, 1989 DRAFT letter to Hearn. 44 The number stepping on the internal registers of GRANITE was decreased in response to deficiency 2 enumerated in the June 21, 1989 letter to Hern. 45 He knows where the documents specifying Benincasa's correction to the original USO seismic data authentication algorithm are located at NSA. 46 He knows where the documents specifying his and Unkenholtz's GRANITE algorithm are located at NSA. NSA employee Edward Donohue ADMITS 47 He met Payne at Sandia sometime after he wrote the DRAFT letter on Internet at jya.com, click cryptome, catch the thread at August 29, 1997, SANDIA REPORT, SAND91-2201 UC 706, Data Authentication for the Deployable Seismic Verification System, Appendix T, Benincasa's Algorithm Deficiencies. 48 He was head of NSA's R division cryptographic algorithms division in 1989. 49 He knows where 1 Benincasa's original NSS/USO algorithm, 2 Benincasa's revision of 1, 3 The Unkenholtz - Judy GRANITE algorithm, 4 Brian Snow's MSCU algorithm, 5 the clipper algorithms, 6 the STU III algorithms. written specifications are located at NSA. NSA employee Paul Bridge ADMITS 50 He assumed liaison control from NSA employee Tom White for the US/USSR seismic data authenticator. 51 He placed a copy of WORKING AGREEMENT BETWEEN SANDIA NATIONAL LABORATORIES AND THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY CONCERNING RESEARCH IN CRYPTOGRAPHY AT SANDIA NATIONAL LABORATORY Sandia National Laboratories (SNL) and the National Security Agency (NSA) have established a working relationship which has gown substantially over the last decade. Currently, there exist several joint project areas of mutual interest. Different policies and administrative procedure exist at SNL and NSA which govern the handling of sensitive and classified material, and the documentation and dissemination of such work. It is the purpose of the Agreement to specify the general guidelines under which work will be administered in the area of cryptography research at SNL. First, SNL, in its role as systems integrator, requires and indigenous cryptographic capability to support its Department of Energy mission in the design and development of safe and secure nuclear weapons and in treaty verification. SNL and NSA agree to a cooperative effort to support SNL's needs in a manner consistent with the role of such work to national security. Second, NSA, in its role as the U.S. Government approval authority for cryptographic systems developed for and used in national security applications, recognizes its responsibility to provide support and guidance to SNL's activities in applying cryptography. Third, SNL will regard cryptographic research work as classified when it is initiated or created, i.e., will protect such work as "created classified", and will consult with NSA prior to handling such work as unclassified. Periodic technical and managerial discussions between SNL and NSA will be held to increase the awareness of the security concerns of both organizations and to develop and maintain an SNL cryptographic classification guide which will protect the national security interests of both organizations. This working agreement shall be effective on the date of the last signature and will be reviewed annually by SNL and NSA. It will be valid until terminated by mutual agreement. AGREED: ALBERT NARATH RADM JAMES S. MCFARLAND (USN) President Plans and Policy TITLE TITLE SANDIA NATIONAL NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY LABORATORIES June 10, 1991 22 July 1991 DATE DATE which is now seen on Internet at jya.com, click cryptome, catch the thread at August 29, 1997. 52 His purpose of giving Payne a copy of the Narath/MacFarland agreement an attempt to threaten Payne. 53 He told Payne that Sandia must regard the US/USSR Deployable Seismic Verification System (DSVS) authenticator as classified and get permission from NSA to place the unit in the field. 54 He told Payne that Sandia must have the DSVS authenticator TEMPEST tested . 55 He agrees Payne responded to him that the previous unit had already passed TEMPEST testing and that Payne's Sandia project leader, H. B. [Jim] Durham, did not want to spend the money to repeat the testing. 56 He told Payne that NSA should be getting the capability to build cryptographic devices. NSA employee Rick Proto ADMITS 57 He and group of other NSA employees met Sandians H. B. Durham, Ron Moya, and William Payne at NSA at Fort George G. Meade in about 1986 to discuss, in part, implementation of the Deployable Seismic Verification System data authenticator. 58 He and other NSA employees directed that the NSA Unmanned Seismic Observatory data authenticator algorithm designed by NSA employee Ronald Benincasa be implemented entirely in hardware. 59 He and the other NSA employees at the meeting, directed that the data authenticator be enclosed in a TEMPEST enclosure. Sandians expressed objection to the TEMPEST enclosure in that the authenticator was housed in a steel tube buried about 100 meters beneath ground surface. 60 He agrees that he and NSA employee Robert Morris met with Sandia cryptographer G. J. Simmons when Simmons asked them both the two questions: 1 NSA is sorry it delegated cryptographic implementation responsibility to Sandia for nuclear weapons; 2 NSA is trying to take back this responsibility? 61 He and/or Morris refuse to respond to Simmons' above question. Retired Sandia Employee Gustavus J Simmons ADMITS 62 He with Sandia Paul Stokes designed a data authentication algorithm for seismic treaty verifications in the early 1970s. 63 He and Stokes either patented, tried to patent, or contemplated patenting their authentication algorithm. 64 NSA, when we presented their seismic data authentication algorithm to the Agency, rejected its use. 65 He know that NSA gave Sandia the data authentication algorithm designed by NSA employee Ronald Benincasa to use in seismic verification rather than use your and Stokes algorithm. 66 He feels that the algorithm that he and Stokes proposed is as good or better than Benincasa's algorithm. 67 He feels that NSA demanding Sandia use Benincasa's algorithm could be a case of Not-invented-here as opposed to technical advantages over his and Stokes algorithm. 68 In about 1986 he gave a presentation in Sandia spook-shop building 868 to promote the use of public key cryptography for use in the Deployable Seismic Verification System. 69 No one, until he received a copy of Payne's technical report in 1992, SANDIA REPORT, SAND91-2201 UC 706, Data Authentication for the Deployable Seismic Verification System told him what algorithm and authentication technology was used. 70 He asked NSA employees Rick Proto and Robert Morris to the effect, 1 NSA is sorry it delegated cryptographic implementation responsibility to Sandia for nuclear weapons; 2 NSA is trying to take back this responsibility. 71 Proto or Morris did not answer his questions. 72 He retired before he planned from Sandia Labs. 73 He felt that NSA exerted some pressure on Sandia to have him retire. 74 He told William Payne on the phone that he was forced into early retirement as a result of NSA pressures. 75 He felt that some NSA algorithms do not are properly classifiable. 76 He felt that NSA abuses classification with regard to cryptography. 77 He feels that cryptography, by its 'slippery math' basis, is difficult, if not impossible, to regulate. Sandia employee D. Jerry Allen ADMITS 78 He was a supervisor Sandia's weapons components department. 79 NSA has responsibility for furnished Sandia the cryptographic algorithms and approving the implementation technology which went into the electronic locks in the US nuclear arsenal. 80 He told William Payne in about 1991-92 that it cost $300,000 per nuclear bomb to recall bombs to Pantex to remove and repair Sandia's failing semiconductor chips. Sandia employee Ronald Kulju ADMITS 81 He worked in Sandia weapons components department in about 1986/7. 82 He was working on a project which involved use of the Cylink corporation CY 1024 public key cryptography semiconductor chip. 82 He made an agreement in about 1986/7 with Payne. He would design the hardware oscillator for the CY 1024 if Payne would try to get CY 1024 to communicate with an 80c51 microcontroller using synchronous Mode 0 communications. 83 He told Payne that Sandia's public key cryptography chips did not get the same answers as the CY 1024. 84 He told Payne that NSA and Sandia was in the process of removing the public key cryptography from weapons systems. 4 Admissions reveal that NSA employees KNOW where the lawfully requested documents reside. And that NSA has EMBARRASSING problems with its cryptographic algorithms. 5 Rule 56 states. Summary Judgment states, The judgment sought shall be rendered forthwith if the pleadings, depositions, answers to interrogatories, and admissions on file, together with the affidavits, if any, show that there is NO GENUINE ISSUE AS TO ANY MATERIAL FACT and that the moving party is entitled to judgment as a matter of law. Plaintiffs capitalize NO GENUINE ISSUE AS TO ANY MATERIAL FACT. Admissions attest to the contention that there are NO GENUINE ISSUE AS TO ANY MATERIAL FACT. WHEREFORE, 6 Replace judges Svet and Campos because these judges have demonstrated, IN WRITING, they do not follow the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. 7 Award Plaintiffs motion for summary judgment as a matter of law based on admissions. 8 Have replacement judges ORDER Defendant to produce immediately produce documents in machine-readable format for publication on Internet. In preparation for settlement of this unfortunate bungled spy sting. And analysis of 'deficient' NSA cryptographic algorithm work designed to get the US government out of the cryptography business. 9 grant such other relief as the Court may deem just and proper. Respectfully submitted, _________________________ William H. Payne 13015 Calle de Sandias NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 _________________________ Arthur R. Morales 1024 Los Arboles NW Albuquerque, NM 87107 Pro se litigants CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, Director, National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 and hand delivered to Jan E Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Monday December 22, 1997. 13

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Re: Completely anonymous communications ARE only for "Criminals"
by Charlie Comsec 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- gburnore(a)netcom.com (Gary L. Burnore) wrote: > :The fact that the people making the claims could not afford to pay even the > :costs probably influences the decision. > > Nope. If a lawyer believes he can win and there big money involved, he'll take > it on the premise that he gets paid if he wins. If the defendant has nothing > to offer, the lawyer won't do it. Thus, the falsly accused may not be able to > afford to go to court. The decision to sue is mostly based on how deep the > pockets of the defendant would be. Then what's the point of going to all the trouble of tracking someone down if you're unwilling or unable to take appropriate legal action against him after he's found? > :So you're suggesting that the victim should suffer. You are really saying > :that it is perfectly acceptable for someone to be run out of a newsgroup by > :a single person who refuses to be killfilable. > > > Yup, that's what he's saying. I don't recall ever saying that. How do you run a person out of an unmoderated NG? And if it's moderated, and the moderator is allowing what you consider libel against you, then you probably have a case against him. That's what the courts decided in a landmark case against an ISP. When you manage the content then you become responsible for it as well. Nor do I understand the "who refuses to be killfilable" part, either. How can someone you don't even know control your killfile? I can killfile anyone I want to, including "nobody@some_remailer". I haven't killfiled anyone, but I could do so if I wanted to. > :>:The problem is that devising workable solutions to problems that don't yet > :>:exist is much more difficult that resolving problems that do already exist. > :> > :>Many say the problem does exist. > : > :There are already problems with anonymous posts. It's all about abuse "on" > :the net, in this case. Everyone in the NANA groups say "That's abuse on the > :net, not abuse of the net. If someone is libelling or harassing you, take > :it up with the police." A traceless remailer makes that impossible. > > True. Why would that prevent you from contacting the police? But consider that libel is a civil tort not a criminal offense, so the police aren't likely to get involved, even if you could identify the culprit. Using a remailer does not make a person unidentifiable, just untraceable. There is a difference. > :>Good point. I again forgot he said "Are only for criminals" > : > :Oh, for crying out loud. I'll try to be more precise. Completely > :untraceable communications are only *needed* by people performing acts that > :are illegal by the laws of all jurisdictions where an anonymous remailer > :with trace logging exists. > > You did it again. If you change the word "only" to "sometimes" it would be > more correct. And probably no more so than pay phones or Netcom accounts. > :>:> I still think he's mistaken by thinking that all who post anonymously are > :>:> lawbreakers. > : > :I don't think that. I never said that. > > Yes, you did. And you did it again above. "only needed by people performing > acts that are illegal" Sounds the same to me. I don't know how you could have one without the other. > :>:I do too. But his premise was used to support his suggested remedy. If an > :>:anonymous user is NOT presumed to be a criminal, then you can't justify > :>:treating him like one. > : > :How is this "treating him like a criminal". I'm asking for a very small > :amount of information to be kept. Far less than that required to open a > :bank account. Are you saying that banks are treating people like criminals > :when they ask for ID? > > True. Very True. It should be "treat him like a suspect" and yes, the banks > treat you like a suspect everytime they ask for ID. They suspect you may be a > criminal if they don't know you. It's SUPPOSED to be that way. Banks are a poor analogy, because anonymity is more analogous to paying cash. When you sign your name to a check, you're already identifying yourself. Banking is an inherently identity-based institution. You're asking someone to trust you, and it's up to you to prove yourself to be trustworthy. A check is made valuable or worthless by virtue of the validity of its signature. Ideas can be evaluated on their own merit, just like paper currency can. I don't need to see two forms of ID to determine whether that $100 bill you just handed me is genuine or counterfeit. > :>I still wonder about what to do about "suspects" on the net. How do you > :>investigate one suspected without harming those NOT suspected? > : > :This is my point. > > > Duh, I know. The solution being what? Surrendering freedom for the sake of supposed security? I don't see that there is necessarily a dilemma between protecting victims versus preserving the freedoms of average citizens. It seems that every solution I offer Politas' is countered with a "yeah, but what about .... " objection. In an imperfect world, government cannot completely protect people from themselves. I'm really trying to understand what Politas' wants, but it's difficult. I've suggested several solutions to his hypothetical problems that don't infringe on the freedoms of the innocent, but each is quickly rejected. - --- Finger <comsec(a)nym.alias.net> for PGP public key (Key ID=19BE8B0D) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJ7rOQbp0h8ZvosNAQHuNQf+JTOZwB/OMXag+Q/fp7vYjZ9pfHV0U5WI rlSgEmZzDIHPUqfns7cDrHSwhKYvfQn9L3VC64qgwRjNSiHcgCqo2f2pnv1Rogoe pu8nvhANfAFpSIiLQ3oMndVvp3xcNt3MGlFhrBGADgbJ1ky4RtdWeDWvz19tJWlM Zpy4igHDWyTFmgNTbccq5qeUrHR2mw9/QQb5GNWK9c6tmj54OMv0kOH8Xpqyl+Fq FocnOLXZI/MAacL5gaLFhNdsv9LkNaC+SeFlK1OxHkcNmTVc00VkPwEzAXtrLSA+ Te+FiRp61mz39CY3hg+Hg/fyLdrTIPK0QjAyL+Lg9ayJh1gVkS8rLw== =HyrT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Trans World Specials Fare Sales
by Trans World Specials 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Happy Holidays from your friends who bring your weekly Trans World Specials. We will not have a fare sale this week. Our next fare sale will be Tuesday, January 5th. Have a happy and safe holiday.

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw(a)wittsend.com> > Subject: Re: Lock and Load > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:27:47 -0500 (EST) > Mix enscribed thusly: > > Jim Choate wrote: > > > Forwarded message: > > > > Not being a native English speaker, I do not understand the > > > > meaning and origin of the phrase "LOck and Load". > > > > > > It means to lock the rifles safety and load it's chamber in preperation for > > > firing at an enemy. It is usualy used in a military context but head-bangers > > > and such use it when talking about loading their bongs and I am shure other > > > groups use it as well in various contexts. > > > > Wait a second, aren't we supposed to load first and lock later? How > > can you load a rifle if it is on safety? > > The reference goes back to old flint lock muzzle loaders. You would > "lock" the firing mechanism in a safety position (kind of a half cocked > position), then load it through the muzzle (picture this and some old > cartoons about raming a ball on top of gun powder down the muzzle of a > riffle and the possiblities to picture why you would want this locked on > "safety"), then finish cocking the rifle to prepare it to fire. This also > relates to the term "half cocked" since a rifle that was only half cocked > (in its locked position) was not ready to fire. So going off "half cocked" > became a reference to going into something unprepared while "lock and load" > evolved into a reference to actively or vigorously preparing to engage in > something, be it a battle, an arguement, or what ever... This is only partialy correct, the fact is that half-cocked simply means the pan-head is down or covered so if the flint strikes the firing plate a spark will not be propogated into the firing chamber (a hole in the side of the barrel) and hence fire the weapon. Firing one of these weapons is a two step process once loaded and aimed. Pull the hammer back and remove the pan-head. The pan-head is *always* opened just prior to firing in order to eliminate as many causes of a mis-fire (eg rain hitting the pan-head or wind blowing the primer charge out of the pan-head) as possible. Traditionaly (as I was tought anyway) 'half-cocked' meant you didn't carry through all the way in preperations to the final goal. It is clear that it has taken on much broader meaning relating to general incompetance and over-zealousness. "Lock and load" is not in any of the infantry manuals I have ever seen from before the mid-1800's. And in every case it refered to a modern weapon not a muzzle load weapon. If anyone can point to an exception I would appreciate it. In all of them it refers to safety'ing the weapon and then loading a round into the chamber. It originaly came into use because of the operation of a bolt-action rifle. If the gun wasn't on safety when the bolt was driven home there was a small but real chance the firing pin (in the back of the bolt you just jammed down with some zeal) would go off and cause the weapon to mis-fire (if you and your buddy are both lucky - you missed both of you). As to the loading of the ball onto the gun-powder - you won't do it the way described above but once. The black powder will go off on about the 3rd tap and you won't have the two hands it takes to load a muzzle-loader. If you *ever* load a black powder be *absolutely shure* that there is a ball pad between the gun powder and the ball. It is *not* there for barrell sealing or some other silly explanation - it's there to inhibit compressive explosion of the black powder. Don't believe it, go down to the hardware or feed store and buy a small can of black powder. Then get a 3/4" pipe and cap. Put only one or two flakes of the black powder on the threads and then tighten with a pipe wrench (wear gloves, glasses, and apron). After about a half turn or so you should hear a distinct snapping sound. This is the black powder going off. This is what will happen if black powder gets between the ball and barrel while you're tapping - and there's a *lot* more gunpowder than a couple of flakes to take your hand (and your face if you're silly enough to be leaning over the barrel which is where not looking down the barrel of a gun comes from). Also, those guns didn't have safeties to engage. There was really only two ways to enshure a safe weapon once loaded - either have the panhead closed or take the flint or steel blade out of the hammer. Even when un-cocked the hammer and blade rests on the firing plate and any stiff strike will cause a spark. Easy to demonstrate - while holding one simply strike the hammer with the heel of your hand while in the dark - that little spark is what blew your face off. You can buy working 'Brown Bessie' models at most any gun or decent hobby store. They're cheap (around $100 last time I looked), loud, smelly, and loads of fun... Merry Christmas! ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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http:--cnnfn.com-quickenonfn-taxes-9712-22-q_taxes_poll-
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[IMAGE] [LINK] [ISMAP] graphic Should there be a flat tax? Results of new poll show Americans favor a flat tax, with some changes December 22, 1997: 3:36 p.m. ET [LINK] [INLINE] Post: President Decides Against Tax Plan Offer - Dec. 21, 1997 [INLINE] The Gallup Organization USA Today More related sites... NEW YORK (CNNfn) - According to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll, Americans now favor, by a thin margin, a flat tax system in which all Americans would pay the same percentage of their income in taxes -- regardless of how much money they make. [INLINE] But the public opposes two central features of flat tax proposals: the elimination of deductions for mortgage interest and for charitable contributions. [INLINE] Only one third of the country would favor replacing the current income tax system with a national sales tax which would apply to all retail purchases. The public believes that most Americans pay their fair share in taxes. [INLINE] The poll interviewed 1,019 adult Americans on November 21-23. [INLINE] The results are as follows: [INLINE] Flat Tax System [INLINE] Favor, 51 percent [INLINE] Oppose, 46 percent [INLINE] Flat Tax System With No Mortgage Deduction [INLINE] Favor, 42 percent [INLINE] Oppose, 54 percent [INLINE] Flat Tax System With No Charitable Deduction [INLINE] Favor, 43 percent [INLINE] Oppose, 53 percent [INLINE] Replacing Income Tax With National Sales Tax [INLINE] Favor, 32 percent [INLINE] Oppose, 62 percent [INLINE] Do Most Americans Pay Their Fair Share in Taxes? [INLINE] Yes, 54 percent [INLINE] No, 43 percent [INLINE] Sampling error on all of the above questions: +/-3 percentage points. Link to top home | taxes | quicken.com on fn | contents | search | stock quotes | help Copyright © 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

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Re: SPECIAL REPORT: Censorware in the Stacks (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: SPECIAL REPORT: Censorware in the Stacks (fwd) > From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 21:34:42 EST > Jim Choate <ravage(a)ssz.com> writes: > > > > Subject: Re: SPECIAL REPORT: Censorware in the Stacks > > > From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > > > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 15:33:03 EST > > > > > On the contary. when no library was state (meaning, taxpayer) funded, and t > > > > Get your facts straight. The US has a library that from day 1 has been > > citizen supported. Every state (that I am aware of) has a state library that > > is funded by tax payers. Furthermore, Texas & Lousiana have had localy > > supported libraries and schools before they were even states. > > Jim, > > I suggest you get your facts straight. > > LOC is for the Congress. Have you tried getting in and doing your own private > research? It's not piece of cake. Wrong, the LOC is for the people. It is there (originaly) to provide a reference listing of all documents published and therefore claiming copyright. Currently it is open to any legitimate research project. I have used it on a couple of projects in the past to research writings no longer in print. > Every state has a public library NOW, just like every state has a welfare > office. However I have plenty of evidence that libraries in New York were > much better when there were many private ones who charged patrons for use > - which was the case about 100 years ago. New York does not equate to 'all the states'. A more than trivial point in your position. Bottem line, both Texas and Louisiana have public libraries that predate eithers entry into the Union. Go piss in that pot you lying commie sack of shit. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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RE: Question on CFB variant with c[i-N]
by Johnson, Michael P (Mike) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>David Honig <honig(a)otc.net> wrote: >At 06:46 PM 12/20/97 -0700, Johnson, Michael P (Mike) wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> cfb Ciphertext feeback mode >>>>> c[i] = f1(K, c[i-1]) ^ p[i] >>>>> p[i] = f1(K, c[i-1]) ^ c[i] >>> >> >> >>Suppose instead of c[i-1] you use c[i-N] where N is say 10. >>How would you prove that this has no security implications? >>That 10-way interleaved cfb streams are security-equivalent to >>a single cfb stream interleaved with the immediately previous block? That would make it harder to get the process started, since you would need 10 initialization vector blocks instead of 1, so it would bloat your messages more. How about this mode: c[i] = e(K1, e(k2, c[i-1]) ^ p[i-1]) ^ p[i] p[i] = e(K1, e(k2, c[i-1]) ^ p[i-1]) ^ p[i] The feedback possibilities are literally endless. The analysis of the effects on security, speed, error propagation, etc., are left as an exercise for the reader. <grin> Some standard modes have been well analyzed and accepted. They also are built into specialized cracking hardware. Offering and using multiple modes and multiple algorithms raises the cost of building specialized cracking hardware.

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12/22/97 9:41 PM, Jim Choate (ravage(a)ssz.com) passed this wisdom: >As to the loading of the ball onto the gun-powder - you won't do it >the waydescribed above but once. The black powder will go off on >about the 3rd tapand you won't have the two hands it takes to load >a muzzle-loader. If you*ever* load a black powder be *absolutely >shure* that there is a ball pad between the gun powder and the >ball. It is *not* there for barrell sealingor some other silly >explanation - it's there to inhibit compressive explosion of the >black powder. It may indeed serve that purpose, but the patch does serve as a sealant and when set up with the right lubricant it cleans the bore on the way out. This gave birth to the expression "one shot clean" - done right the bore is more or less always dirty from the last shot only as that shot cleaned the residue of the prior shot out by it lubricated patch. Civil war era muskets and later used a Minie ball, which was no ball at all but a tapered projectile which had no patching at all, just 5-700 grains (for a 58 cal musket, lighter for .45 and .50) of pure soft lead with a dab of lubricant in the hollowed base. >... Don't believe it, go down to the hardware orfeed >store and buy a small can of black powder. Then get a 3/4" pipe >andcap. Put only one or two flakes of the black powder on the >threads and thentighten with a pipe wrench (wear gloves, glasses, >and apron). After about a half turn or so you should hear a >distinct snapping sound. This is the blackpowder going off. This is >what will happen if black powder gets between theball and barrel >while you're tapping - and there's a *lot* more gunpowder than a >couple of flakes to take your hand (and your face if you're >sillyenough to be leaning over the barrel which is where not >looking down the barrel of a gun comes from). Quite right, but there's one more caveat you forgot here, Jim, when using the rod to tamp the ball down, its done with one hand with the rod held between two fingers. You sort of 'throw' the rod down onto the bullet, actually letting go, never holding the rod firmly and *never* putting your hand on top of the rod to push it down. (I saw one guy get a rod from a 58 cal three band Enfield shot through his hand at a musket shoot once and more than a few rods shot through rooves or into roof timbers in the shooting sheds or several hundred feet through the air on open ranges) Friction isn't the only source of stray ignition, powder embers from a prior shot when doing rapid fire shooting has been a common culprit. We had one musket shoot on a god awful hot sunny summer day and by the sixth and seventh rapid fire shots in the midday shooting the muskets were hot enough to cook off powder when combined with a little bit too forceful tamping, we had to curtail shooting til later in the day. All in all, the guys who had to use muzzle-loading weapons in war, personal defense, and hunting had to have been an adventuresome lot, todays weapons are boring in comparison. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJ9kYz7r4fUXwraZAQGdWQf/QsP8OdDTpTvg2mIbe8v7/ovuPxLPJAwK BPYaOYTAYHKX3LqA+mxj5lx22K+7GufmrDsgL2WwS+sy/ZS/j2jdIKtr64QSXhg5 sIL66Oi1iyMgU/OJyLTCCAdbp5wTSfheznVzdNeee/N9xe0XNPCPoRhXpAYpyLh4 PZVkZ9BQSTV5mbuwLXy16c7yRCxoEaMrjR7GSQY6Y+/ycKnwq7oKWBbVAdg3pQVW 4a0vj6bT+HM8l1w6jvEALg4zSkz/vs2RvnJfYUvs4Xo6A4rqfTr96xfQyp6TH5oL 83V2yAa4EyTHoGpAVs7ANz7M7lnNo1QML9k8Z/oC1YznJdyFn4wFTw== =Tizl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "Frisbeetarianism, n.: The belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck." -- author unknown

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Igor, Sorry you are the one to bring this one up... Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Lock and Load (fwd) > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:45:46 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > > AK-47. > The Chinese Norinco version will certainly do so, I've fired a couple of them. Never seen a real soviet model but they are supposed to be piece for piece interchangable. But will check into it and get back to you. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Hate speech and censorship
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > > > Yes, those on the list a few months ago (around the time the list moved > > > > from cocksucker John Gilmores toad.com to the distributed list format) > > > > will remember censorous arab Sameer Parekh for sending abusive mail > > > > threatening legal action to those who criticised the security of his > > > > companies "stronghold" firewall, which I among others suspect to contain > > > > govt. backdoors, uneducated and foolish arabs such as Parekh should stick > > > > to what they do best: running kebab shops and/or selling cheap fake rolex > > > > watches to tourists. > > > > > > Sameer parekh sounds like he lives by the Arab proverb: "Women for sons, > > > boys for pleasure, but a camel for sheer extasy". > > > > I guess I am missing something, but what is so good about camels? > > I don't know - you'd have to ask Sameer Parekh. Does he keep one in his > C2Net office, and is it a male or a female camel? Yes, Sameer Parekh does keep a Bactrian camel in his C2Net office. The camel is male. Sameer uses his oral and anal orifices to play the part of a female camel. +-----#--+ | O # | | |#__O | |._#_> \ | +-#------+ Stop AIDS!

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12/22/97 11:37 PM, Igor Chudov @ home (ichudov(a)Algebra.COM) passed this wisdom: >I could field strip an AK (mind you, with all military gadgets) in 11 >seconds and assemble it back in 21 seconds. > >What crypto relevance does it have? Maybe it keeps Timmy happy to talk about guns ;-) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJ9lsj7r4fUXwraZAQE69wf9ETIRbPnEIxYn5JPfyvrl8I2Mw+UWauvA LkhrI+OV2XCBvXpx+/CxAvbE3I+M0EFtYAScmNc4M+b6fZzuHxptcqvO2X+MBh/k BQyLqopDw6aB7pZPWNjHsyHJtA4goftRx030mrF/oGf032E/0R9TVTy1uXsml1EP OO7YJTzHJ+3c5VnufLNHjyEvwKlYmdSaPuOyK3Ov69reUPpAXcj3jVdijXm5XZp7 S1rdt/1Ez74yBvyEdjNXqfeQTH1VHpO5CS2pEJGE+gGPL4Z8wrCLgBJ4mHmwqSO/ 9SkGK9kRZ7FVMHPjTLnjCzKdgjDvv3tClJvYF1Mm9APKpTgPYnHpAA== =2Woq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place. -- Douglas Adams, on Windows '95

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Gilmore Publishes Strong Crypto Code Online for Authentication
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[This announcement does not relate directly to the Bernstein case, but I felt the overlap of interest would be very strong. -- John] Strong Crypto Code Published Online for Authentication San Francisco, December 23, 1997 - Civil libertarian John Gilmore today published strong authentication source code on the Internet, making it available for worldwide access, despite U.S. National Security Agency attempts to restrict such software. He is publishing Domain Name System Security software that contains a complete copy of RSAREF, well-known cryptography software that is a predecessor to the DNSsafe software released in October by RSA Data Security, Inc. Mr Gilmore explains, "Internet publication of cryptography software is considered an export by the US Government, and often requires government permission under the Export Administration Regulations (EAR). But those regulations specifically exempt programs which merely prove that information is authentic (authentication), rather than hiding the information (privacy)." The export regulations were amended in 1989 to exclude authentication software. Since that time, however, the National Security Agency has been telling people privately that the exclusion only applies to ready-to-run "binary" programs. They have reportedly claimed that the regulations still require government permission to export the human-readable "source code" of authentication programs. The plain text of the regulations makes no such distinction, though; all authentication programs are exempt. Readers can obtain the software from Mr. Gilmore's web site for Domain Name System Security, at http://www.toad.com/~dnssec or at http://www.flash.net/~dnssec. Future releases will be available from the Internet Software Consortium, http://www.isc.org/bind.html. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which Mr. Gilmore co-founded, is sponsoring a lawsuit to have the entire cryptography software export control regime overturned. In the three-year suit, Bernstein v. State, Judge Marilyn Hall Patel has invalidated export controls administered by both the State Department and the Commerce Department. She ruled they are an unconstitutional prior restraint against our First Amendment right to speak and publish about cryptography. The case is now in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. Domain Name System Security: http://www.toad.com/~dnssec or http://www.flash.net/~dnssec Internet Software Consortium: http://www.isc.org RSA Data Security: http://www.rsa.com Electronic Frontier Foundation: http://www.eff.org Press Contacts: John Gilmore, Founding Board Member, EFF +1 415 221 6524, gnu(a)toad.com Shari Steele, Staff Attorney, Electronic Frontier Foundation +1 301 375 8856, ssteele(a)eff.org More press background is available at: http://www.toad.com/~dnssec/pressrel1.background.txt

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw(a)wittsend.com> > Subject: Re: Lock and Load (fwd) > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:50:36 -0500 (EST) > This is what "the experts" have claimed. Can't personally claimed to have > read it in any specific manual myself. I've seen a couple and there are *lots* of references to the various manuals (and I think every wanna be professional soldier in the last 500 years has written one at some point) in the various readings I do studying tactical combat techniques but that doesn't make me an expert by any stretch of the imagination. The very fact that there are so many and so many were never accepted (quality?) means even they are by no means a final reference. I would like to know if there were exceptions or even who wrote the first manual with 'lock and load'... > This friend happened to have a fire in his house about five years ago. Yuck, I had a house fire going on 3 years ago now. Every time I smell a bar-b-q pit I remember it...;( > his journey into discovering the nature of life beyond. I personally would > not recommend subjecting such substances to such abuses of heat and pressure, > but some are known to get away with it and still live to tell the tale. I've seen that sort of behaviour as well. I've tried to demonstrate the pipe model and truth be told, it works only about 9 out of 10 times. Black powder just ain't that unstable. > > You can buy working 'Brown Bessie' models at most any gun or decent hobby > > store. They're cheap (around $100 last time I looked), loud, smelly, and > > loads of fun... > > I personally like the Kentucky Longs you can build from kits. Will > throw and impressive 1/4" lead ball and leave one hell of an impression when > it arrives... Agreed... Merry Christmas! ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 12/23/97 2:33 AM, Jim Choate (ravage(a)ssz.com) passed this wisdom: >Right mounted safety? Sounds like a lefties gun. Safeties are usualy thumb >tripped which means they are on the left. The idea is you can safety the >weapon without taking your finger from the trigger. That could explain the >loading problem, guns built for lefties typicaly have all kinds of weird >handling issues. It sounds to me like a real nightmare to load and use in >the bush since you have to take your hand off the gun in order to get the >safety off while you load another round while cycling the bolt through its >action - eliminates snap shots that's for shure. Do you know if it is a >lefty build? If so then it clearly isn't a military grade weapon since they >are ubiquitously designed for right handed firers (at least until the last >20 yrs. or so). > >Once the clip is in place, top feed since you said "push down", does the >safety prevent the cycling of ammo through the breech? Does it use a >stripper clip or a carrier? You don't happen to know the type of action? It was the first cicilian marketed semi-auto in the country ... the right hand safety can be operated and usually is by the thumb of the right hand its a big flat lever with a good sized tab on it, just extend the right thumb and push down. The magazine was a non removeable clip that could only be loaded from the top, no stripper clips. The one drawback to the weapon was it was a top eject and the it was said that the ejecting shell distracted the eye of the shooter, personally I got used to that within the first 100 round I fired with it. >Is this a military grade weapon or sport? > >> >A parallel pistol example would be nice too, if you're so inclined. >> >> I don't know of any pistols .... except that in the case of the >> ubiquitous military .45 (1911A1) while one can easily insert a magazine >> with the gun on safe, it isn't truly loaded til a round is chambered >> which involves coming out of safe to rack the slide > >Interesting since the 1911 I use doesn't exhibit this ... I don't >have a problem loading it irrespecitive of the safety. If the safety is on >the hammer is blocked from the bottem by a lever. You can put ammo in it, >cock it via the slide, etc. Just can't pull the trigger. Will have to look >more into this... agreed ... but .. my point is that racking the slide to chamber a round invlved bring the weapon to full cock, which, considering the abysmal track record of the the thumb safety removed the weapon from the only really safet state which was half-cock ... but that is maybe splitting hairs ... Merry Christmas to you too ... we here in Vermont are having a *very* white Christmas already with more snow coming tonite and tomorrow ... Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "When hell freezes over, grab your ice skates." -- Mark Johnson

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No Subject
by bureau42 Anonymous Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:11 PM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk? > > 308 Winchester would be a pretty good all around choice. You would be a little over gunned for some of the smaller ones, however.

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Re: SPECIAL REPORT: Censorware in the Stacks (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 23:05:19 -0600 > Subject: Re: SPECIAL REPORT: Censorware in the Stacks > >Why should any state be in the business of owning and running any parks? > >We pay $60/year for a family membership in an excellent private park. > >Most public parks in NYC are extremely unpleasant and dangerous places. > > I find it quite amazing that anyone would live in a place where you had to > pay to see grass and trees. I don't know whether I should feel blessed or cursed now....I spent several hours today clearing the yard (covered in grass) of tree limbs that were knocked down from the storm last week and in preperation for the storm to come in to town tomorrow...still have to mow that green stuff since it's getting a tad tall...maybe this weekend. Personaly, I can't imagine why anyone would allow them to build a city without parks and grass and trees and such. Hell, we have laws in Austin that make such things mandatory...there is currently a big fight going on about 'Triangle Park' here in Austin between leaving the 50+ acres at N. Lamar, Guadalupe, & 45th alone or selling to make a movie theatre and parking lot. Looks like the trees are gonna win this one...I know my dog certainly likes romping in the mud puddles...(I live about 10 blocks away) So big bucks don't always win and the city & state (the park is owned by the state hospital and currently houses some sort of juvenile center in one small corner) governments do sometimes listen to the people of a neighborhood over commercial interests. Money is not more important than trees sometimes & government sometimes does listen... Merry Christmas! ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Question on CFB variant with c[i-N]
by John Kelsey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: Johnson, Michael P (Mike) <JohnsMP(a)LOUISVILLE.STORTEK.COM> > To: 'coderpunks(a)toad.com'; 'cypherpunks(a)algebra.com'; 'David Honig' <honig(a)otc.net> > Subject: RE: Question on CFB variant with c[i-N] > Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 12:22 PM > How about this mode: > c[i] = e(K1, e(k2, c[i-1]) ^ p[i-1]) ^ p[i] > p[i] = e(K1, e(k2, c[i-1]) ^ p[i-1]) ^ p[i] > > The feedback possibilities are literally endless. The analysis of the > effects on security, speed, error propagation, etc., are left as an > exercise for the reader. <grin> > Some standard modes have been well analyzed and accepted. They also are > built into specialized cracking hardware. Offering and using multiple > modes and multiple algorithms raises the cost of building specialized > cracking hardware. I'm kind-of skeptical of the big advantages of this. I mean, if you were convinced someone with a DES-cracking engine was listening in on an encrypted channel, and you really wanted to make sure they wouldn't manage to get any plaintext, would you rather alter your system to use some weird and not-too-well analyzed chaining mode, or alter your system to use DESX or Blowfish or something else with a key length too big to be vulnerable to such keysearch machines? There clearly *are* ways to get more than 56 bits of security out of DES. However, they're not generally obvious, and even very bright cryptographers have shot themselves in the foot trying to design them. (Remember 3DES with internal CBC-mode chaining, Ladder DES, and DES-Tran-DES-Tran-DES?) --John Kelsey, kelsey(a)counterpane.com / kelsey(a)plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF

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Best Cypherpunk long gun
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?

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Re: Best Cypherpunk long gun
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12/23/97 1:34 AM, Tim May (tcmay(a)got.net) passed this wisdom: >(The notion that the AR-15/M-16 "jams" is based on 35-year-old >early experiences in Viet Nam, using an early design and early >ammo. The jamming problems were fixed quickly, by changing the >forward assist, changing the ammo a little, and teaching soldiers >how to properly clean the weapon.) In addition to that they chrome plated the chambers which eliminate 99% of the actions where the extractor would rip off the tail end of the casing. "obturation" (almost microscopic expansion of the brass in the chamber at ignition) and the coarser finish of the unplated chambers coupled up to give a high percentage of jams. When the jam was tough enough that the tail of the cartridge got ripped off the poor trooper was up shits creek since he couldn't use a cleaning rod to remove the shell ... a lot of M16s got bent around trees because of that! By Nov 68 when I got in country the 1st MarDiv had replaced most of its M16s with the newer chromed chamber models. I don't know about other services or outfits. I had maybe a half dozen occasions where I put four to six 20 round mags (the Marines didn't start getting the 30 round mags til the Army got all theirs - sigh!) through my weapon on full auto in rapid succession and never had a jam. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJ/kZz7r4fUXwraZAQEe2gf+JsOLKfLW9GGQBu8WNDAaqyjql1FamKQp abqMPoleLrhaHrB7TnkfTF7sdL6R9tO9syBTjqw36CKOXv/lP3/DsiSQTnML2K2s cl2eCphQvfc2b7L9ylXcihs0UHynqCgevtPLJG5f7QrSvzR+NFlFd0roBiFLLZc+ lz88qgnSUOFclhepsmYslSBEqaLX62Y11pnxb/yr1xU6DUVZv+92yhVsT2ojxZ4b n6WrsU81mFOjX+Oi41Zg9GAbMFy/cM2O2mZ4YJBEWkztWA1J9kNX6NSisv0Yswbj bkmWD3sFCeh8qKmflllh+fuxq70q8mLyws6ntzclpdgcUUs1JWGIjg== =rdqq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "Give a man a fish and you have fed him for a day, but give him a case of dynamite and soon the village will be showered with mud and seaweed and unidentifiable chunks of fish." -Joe Chew

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 12/22/97 6:40 PM, Jim Choate (ravage(a)ssz.com) passed this wisdom: > >Forwarded message: > >> Subject: Re: Lock and Load >> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 17:59:49 -0500 >> From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr(a)together.net> > >> There are probably as many weapons where this is true as there where >> it is not. In general it makes most sense to check for safe condition >> before and after loading. > >Would you be so kind as to give a specific example of a bolt action, >semi-automatic, or automatic rifle that can't be loaded on safe? I have >never seen a rifle that wouldn't allow this. Remington Model 8 semi-automatic rifle (circa 1905-1930+) there is one (high three digit serial number made in 1906) chambered in .35 Remington on the wall about 30 feet from where I am sitting. It's safety is right side mounted and not only blocks the trigger but locks the bolt forward both internally and externally by blocking track for the bolt handle, it must be off to draw the bolt back to load the internal five round pushdown magazine. The design was based on the original Browning patent for a semi-automatic rifle. I remember through the years seeing at least three other weapons with similar mechanisms but I cannot recall make and model save that one of the was a Remington of 1920's vintage. >A parallel pistol example would be nice too, if you're so inclined. I don't know of any pistols .... except that in the case of the ubiquitous military .45 (1911A1) while one can easily insert a magazine with the gun on safe, it isn't truly loaded til a round is chambered which involves coming out of safe to rack the slide .... as far as I am concerned the only 'safe' safety on a .45 is the half-cock position. I have seen a number of malfunctions of the thumb safety and the grip safety as well as the barrel disconnect safety. In another message someone commented on not dropping a .45 with the hammer back ... I have a friend in NJ who commanded another platoon in my recon company in Nam. He jumped down off a parapet and his .45 bounced out of his flak jacket pocket and went off putting a large hole in his foot (for which he earned the nickname "Quick Draw"). It had been in 'condition 1' (full magazine inserted, round chambered, hammer at full cock, thumb safety on), but went off anyway. The armorer later said none of the parts seemed damaged or particularly worn, it just went off ... I am sure there's dozens more stories of loaded 45's going off when dropped. Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." -- Ayn Rand - The Fountainhead (1943)

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Re: Best Cypherpunk long gun (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:34:51 -0700 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: Best Cypherpunk long gun > Were I to recommend one rifle to meet most needs, it would be some variant > of the AR-15, from Colt or Bushmaster or Olympic Arms, etc. About $800 for > a common variant. No need for a collapsible stock. This will handle social > needs from short range, to a few hundred yards (maybe more). > > There are those who recommend a cheaper SKS or AK-47 variant. I've never > owned one, so can't honestly comment. The concensus in rec.guns and > misc.survivalism seems to be that the AR shoots better and more accurately, > but the AK-47 is more forgiving of bad conditions, dirt, etc. Inasmuch as I > don't expect to be in the desert, or even any mud, I'll take the more > accurate piece. I would go for a HK 93 or G3 model myself w/ Zeiss 3x9 scope w/ some sort of laser designator for long range (> 200 yds.). Chambered in .308 and will give about a 4 to 6-in. group at 600 yds. from what I have seen - very handy for shooting throug 4 in. brick walls as well. Very accurate (a very popular sniper weapon) and more than forgiving with the environment. It's little brother the MP-5 pretty much owns the SWAT and similar sorts of jobs. A Desert Eagle chambered in .357 (you just *think* those .223 go through vests) would be my close in choice. Course you ain't gonna touch the HK for less than a few $k and the Desert Eagles are over $1k. > (The notion that the AR-15/M-16 "jams" is based on 35-year-old early > experiences in Viet Nam, using an early design and early ammo. The jamming > problems were fixed quickly, by changing the forward assist, changing the > ammo a little, and teaching soldiers how to properly clean the weapon.) Don't worry about it - go with a HK and you can fill the chamber with gunk and the next cycle of the blowback bolt system will clear it. Excellent all weather weapon. It'll even fire if un-oiled - not something you should do with a M16/AR15. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Get your Anthrax shots
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Well I don't know about you Tim but my Doctors only know me as Mr. Cash. >:) How'd you pull that one off? All kinds of personal information, including your name, is included in medical records which the doctors have to keep up to date and reference. When you go in you'd have to give them your name. Now on the other hand I suppose you could go in, say you don't have insurance, give a fake name, and pay in cash always. It would still be trivial to ambush you at a scheduled doctor appointment. And I think Klintonkov has done a good job of discouraging privately funded medical care.

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Lock and Load (fwd) > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 02:41:03 -0500 > From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr(a)together.net> > It was the first cicilian marketed semi-auto in the country This doesn't use a Mauser 1898 action does it? The top feed 5-round clip is my first clue... As to first semi-automatic in the country, I believe the Springfield 1903 has that particular honor. It used a Mauser '98 action also. It's also where .30-06 got the 06 from...also very popular in WW1 and used as a sniper rifle through Normandy, after which the Garand pretty much took over. > ... the > right hand safety can be operated and usually is by the thumb of the > right hand its a big flat lever with a good sized tab on it, just extend > the right thumb and push down. How can that work if the R. thumb is on the L. side of the gun while the safety is on the R. side of the gun? Your description leaves me with one of two mental images. Either my hand is off the trigger guard and I have a loaded and unsafed weapon or else I have to do some sort of finger gynmastics around the trigger guard in the same unsafed condition. Scares the be-jesus out of me...an errant twig could fire a round. > The magazine was a non removeable clip > that could only be loaded from the top, no stripper clips. The one > drawback to the weapon was it was a top eject and the it was said that > the ejecting shell distracted the eye of the shooter, personally I got > used to that within the first 100 round I fired with it. Yep, bet this is some sort of Mauser '98 action... > Merry Christmas to you too ... we here in Vermont are having a *very* > white Christmas already with more snow coming tonite and tomorrow ... We're supposed to get rain and more rain starting tomorrow. They say it might be clear on Christmas but the rain returns on Friday...;( Stay warm & thanks for the discussion. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
by The Sheriff 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:23:23 -0400 >To: David Honig <honig(a)otc.net> >From: The Sheriff <sheriff(a)speakeasy.org> >Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > >>Marc, you have declared how far you take freedom: you apparently >>believe it is proper for the government to intervene in private hiring >>decisions. Unfortunately many americans believe this intrusion is justified. > >I have to admit, at first I agreed with Marc, until I thought >about it for a minute. After all, to leave a people free is not >to leave them in chaos -- freedom comes with responsibility, >period. It doesn't have to be levied by a governmental body -- >there will allways be consequences when a free man makes a choice >or takes action in some way, be they good consequences or bad. > >After all, if the majority of the population of a free society >didn't have a problem with homosexuals, and yet Employer X fired >people because they were homosexual or friends with someone who >was, I get the sneaking suspicion that one of two things would >happen: > >1) Employer X's work force would eventually evaporate. > >2) Those who stuck with Employer X might soon find that > their boss doesn't discriminate solely against gays. > >In considering the position that employers have every right to >fire for whatever reason, I have decided that the firing of an >employee -- for whatever reason -- is, in itself, a form of >speech. "In terminating your employment and having you escorted >off the premesis effective immediately, we here at Corp X are >saying that all faggots suck." > >As such, who is to say that Employer X should be punished for >his views? Americans don't have a RIGHT to employment. That's >why people take their future into their own hands and become their >own employers, right? > > Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ***<REPLY TO: sheriff(a)speakeasy.org>*** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJ+DYwBMw4+NR29ZAQEABQgAtc5fh8yastnBu6A6m2emw3PRj0rCUKwR s9n7myQm1KWOkb5lO44Vz+CoBdBblh5INezrLJ1O5Rspv+GBLygIhi71yM8k2QLc 8kYQ2cBgwCF+M8xUMKvkWB2dg3grEcv9AqZhl+1RCaOuiUvDeHb2T17glQ5sCjd7 p6eDU8ldMabcV6xmS4uoCTbyNH1SPp7j91h503xz/9oBjspMPKzTX1lF7KTnl+sP 8q91O+KUpnq+V88dp1AzgsZ1da+o5jBgXNLC8G2OcUpA4wlhbLc33FZb0S8if70D /NYCZZH6TL08glhxG4FKkL9FiOaSyJA/Ca2juipFlYL7I9quwT+Tbw== =jHny -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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New Presidential Crypto Advisor
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

22 December 1997, U.S. Newswire: Clinton Nominates Honigman Special Advisor to President Washington, Dec. 22 -- The President today announced the appointment of Steven S. Honigman as Special Advisor to the President. Mr. Honigman will bring senior level and government-wide leadership to the Administration's procurement of encryption technology and services. Mr. Honigman's responsibilities will include assuring that agency procurement policies, requirements, practices and programs are coordinated and consistent with Administration encryption policies. He will also coordinate agency encryption pilot projects and bring them to production, promote public-private standards development, and maintain a dialogue with the public about these efforts. His work will require consultation with all major Federal agencies, White House policy offices, the Congress, market participants, foreign entities and the private sector. Mr. Honigman has served since June 1993 as the General Counsel of the Navy. In that position, he has been the Department of the Navy's chief legal officer and the principal legal advisor to the Secretary of the Navy. As Navy General Counsel, he has been a leader in acquisition reform and procurement-related litigation. Mr. Honigman was born in Brooklyn, New York. He received his B.A. degree from New York University and his J.D. degree from Yale Law School. Mr. Honigman has practiced as a civil litigator in New York City. His areas of specialization included international and domestic reinsurance and insurance disputes, transactions and insolvencies. ----------

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Re: Best Cypherpunk long gun (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 01:08:04 -0700 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: Best Cypherpunk long gun (fwd) > I can't agree that the HK 91 (the .308 version) is a popular sniper > weapon. Military and police snipers the world over differ strongly with you... Beside, it's the 93/G3 not the 91 (thought they do share a lot of commen base pieces) that is the sniper rifle. I believe you will also find that the .308 is the base caliber for all versions. Your wording above would indicate the 91 was .308 while the 93 was a different caliber, this is incorrect. Visit the H&K home page... > For sniper work, a bolt-action is by far the most popular piece. Really? Watch a few more of those silly police shows on at night. Pay particular attention to the long-term hostage episodes. I generaly see the break-in team carrying MP-5 or shortie M-16's. I have yet to see the backup or sniper team using a bolt-action. Learning base tactics is about the only thing these shows are good for. > I'm also skeptical about lasers, for daylight use. The three lasers I have > owned have been good for indoor use, but visibility outdoors during the day > is very poor. I only use them for long-range shots and it does require the scope to see the spot - the whole point really. The idea is the beam is of very low power at this point and doesn't stand out quite as bad as up close (the glowing red dot). > (IR lasers with IR night vision gear is another matter, but also another > price matter, too.) Bad news, the others guys IR/IIS will spot you in a heart-beat, never use a laser at nite, it's like tracers - they work both ways. You want to stick with a strictly 3rd generation passive IR/IIS. Remember, we're counter-sniping at this point... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

4 3

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17 Dec '03

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12/23/97 3:52 AM, Jim Choate (ravage(a)ssz.com) passed this wisdom: >As to first semi-automatic in the country, I believe the >Springfield 1903 Uhhhh ... 03 Springfield is a bolt action .... Rem Mod 8 is Browning semi-auto action essentially recoil operated with the barrel inside a sleeve surrounded by a spring whihc recoiled back with the bolt as well. The barrel spring had a stiffer constant than the bolt spring so it strated forward frist effecting the separation of bolt and reciever and stripping the round out straight up. It was designed in 1903 and first manufactured in 1905. It was, as I said, the first semi-auto marketed to the *civilian* market. There were other semi-auto's but were all military weapons. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJ/mRT7r4fUXwraZAQFiGwf+M6v+VX3p9Bx9CnsmJYJJnjx0S/2IxxUT iVWlexWiDhxlAJMQnzXEUfoSVHQRtwkmrX+SH5qDxdBodFqBj7ctDJHp8/sBDZS+ uxqo4LNhm0XeSP64+P+sb25fJkDAZSWR2j/VcjMG7MxZ3CvGHsW5jxVuKvAAkVIg d9+0IgzENEcdyS5JuHF3fCQWSPcvo+tB4cweYFGbLXRBtAe5HojHYuBoeGnKMqAP GLjwaRzcNa4RkherYGV0Irpfdz5x+DIvgj2PRu57bPrDIKddUytGW11+eu3cXZKK Am/+dgPLlDpero9V9LB6Tg0i6oVCR/4WXyuCch8pnvVGwDLY59/8qQ== =qA6z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "The ultimate consequence of protecting men from the results of their own folly is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Accountability and Traceless Remailers
by Charlie Comsec 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- politas(a)dynamite.com.au (Politas) wrote: > >Then what's the point of going to all the trouble of tracking someone down if > >you're unwilling or unable to take appropriate legal action against him > >after he's found? > > Well, you don't (can't) know that until you find the responsible person, > can you? You're missing the point. You would have already made that decision before you started the ball rolling. By your own scenario, you'd already have filed a court case and presented PROBABLE CAUSE that the law had been violated in order to convince a judge to start issuing subpoenas, etc. Do you really think the legal systems of several sovreign countries would go to all this effort to identify a person that you only *MIGHT* want to sue? If you caused all this expense and then decided not to sue, they'd be well justified in BILLING YOU for all the costs incurred. Short of an outright criminal act where the government intervenes and prosecutes, in most civil cases it's customary for the accuser (plaintiff) to pay all of the costs in advance, then attempt to collect them from the defendant. If you file a frivolous case, then later drop it, you're still stuck with paying the fees. What's more, if you do all that, the person you tracked down (but never proved any wrongdoing against) would have a perfect case to countersue you for invasion of privacy. > >I don't recall ever saying that. How do you run a person out of > >an unmoderated NG? > > By continually posting attacks and offensive material under different > nyms. If you're easily offended, then an unmoderated usenet NG is not the place for you. I don't think you could ever enact enough laws to force people to be nice to each other. > >Nor do I understand the "who refuses to be killfilable" part, either. How can > >someone you don't even know control your killfile? > > If someone keeps changing their nym, it is impossible to killfile them. Then your beef is with ISPs like Netcom and AOL, not the remailers. AOLers can change screen names at will, and Netcom subscribers are free to put just about anything in the From: line that they choose to. I'm just citing two examples. The vast majority of the people giving usenet a bad name are doing so with non-anonymous accounts at ISPs that couldn't care less what their users say or do. As I said before, just visit some of the usenet NGs where people are being called "pedophiles" by people posting under their own user IDs from well known ISPs. That's about as clear-cut case of libel as you're going to get (unless everyone so accused really is a pedophile) and yet I'll bet that if I complained to the ISPs that nothing would be done. I have no reason to do so, but it's hard to believe that somebody hasn't complained by now, and yet the flamers still have their accounts. If the present system is incapable of dealing with identifiable offenders, why worry about the few anonymous ones among them? Presumably if you track an anonymous poster down to an account at one of these ISPs, you'll be no better off than with those who now do the same thing openly. You've also now switched the subject from arguably illegal behavior to that which is merely annoying. I'm not even sure that accusing a person of child molestation in the context of an ongoing flame battle constitutes a winnable case of libel, but it's the closest I can come. > It doesn't stop you calling the police, it just stops them being able to > do anything. That's still your decision. But if the person isn't "worth suing" by whatever standards you use, then it doesn't matter whether he's anonymous or not. > >Using a remailer does not make a person unidentifiable, just untraceable. > >There is a difference. > > What?????? How can I identify an anonymous poster if I can't trace > them? How can I use their posts as evidence if there is no way to trace > those posts back to them? That's like saying that you can't identify a masked bank robber just because you didn't see him drive up and happen to take down his license number. Bank robbers are convicted all the time, even if they couldn't be identified at the scene. They were overheard planning the crime before hand. They were caught bragging about it afterwards. They were caught spending the stolen money. A few stupid ones even visited the bank again without a mask to transact normal business and a teller recognized their voice. Thus, it is possible to deter and prosecute bank robbers without fingerprinting everyone who merely walks into the bank. > >Banks are a poor analogy, because anonymity is more analogous to paying cash. > >When you sign your name to a check, you're already identifying yourself. > >Banking is an inherently identity-based institution. You're asking someone > >to trust you, and it's up to you to prove yourself to be trustworthy. > > Email and news postings are also inherently identity-based. You'd like them to be, but they aren't. > >A check is made valuable or worthless by virtue of the validity of its > >signature. Ideas can be evaluated on their own merit, just like paper > >currency can. I don't need to see two forms of ID to determine whether that > >$100 bill you just handed me is genuine or counterfeit. > > Look, you were saying that remailers storing ID information is treating > people like criminals, and is unacceptable. No, I'm saying that FORCING remailer operators to collect this information from their users is unacceptable. The banks are doing what they believe to be in their own best interests, just as the remailers are. > I am saying that it is > obviously acceptable for other institutions providing services to store > a lot more information. You aren't saying that banks are behaving > unacceptably in storing ID information, so why is it unacceptable for a > remailer to store far less information? What you're proposing is like refusing cash and requiring that people pay via traceable check. I'm proposing giving people the option of doing either. If you don't want to accept cash in payment, nobody will force you to. But don't impose that rule on everyone else. > >The solution being what? Surrendering freedom for the sake of supposed > >security? I don't see that there is necessarily a dilemma between protecting > >victims versus preserving the freedoms of average citizens. > > Anonymity is not a right. It is a privilege that can be granted by a > person in a position to do so. It is a privilege that should be able to > be taken away if it is abused. Under Australian law, perhaps, but not US. We have a "Bill of Rights" here, not a "list of optional privileges". Our Supreme Court has already ruled that anonymous speech is protected under the First Amendment to our constitution. Yes, free speech can be revoked if it's misused, but that's only AFTER an offense has occurred and a proper restraining order has been obtained. What you're proposing requires a breach of one's privacy BEFORE any law has been broken. > >It seems that every solution I offer Politas' is countered with a "yeah, but > >what about .... " objection. In an imperfect world, government cannot > >completely protect people from themselves. > > Society is all about protecting people from others, not themselves. Maybe Australia didn't experiment with such things as Prohibition, then. > >I'm really trying to understand what Politas' wants, but it's difficult. I've > >suggested several solutions to his hypothetical problems that don't infringe > >on the freedoms of the innocent, but each is quickly rejected. > > All your solutions involve the victim suffering for the acts of the > perpetrator. That is hardly justice. Neither is the alternative. You don't punish a person until AFTER he's been convicted. You say "anonymity is a privilege", but your proposal doesn't even allow that. How can I be ANONYMOUS if I have to IDENTIFY myself first? I'd lose the privilege before I even received it. If I have to tell somebody who I am, then I'm not anonymous. > What I want is accountability. If you are doing something wrong, you > should be accountable for it. It is an underlying thread to all systems > of justice. In most free countries, the burden of proof is on the accuser. What you're proposing is like demanding that since you feel that your neighbor is a "suspicious character", he ought to be required to wear an electronic device at all times so that *IF* he should do something wrong, he can be traced. That technology exists, but it's only used after a person has been convicted and is then released on probation or parole. There's nothing in your scenario that couldn't be put in place AFTER you'd shown probable cause that a law was being broken via a remailer. The picture that both you and Gary have painted is of a repeated pattern of offenses. If you could demonstrate that the law was being broken, you could get the proper courts to order that this tracing be instituted, for a limited period of time, until the culprit was caught or the wrongdoing ended. Why subject all remailer users to this in advance just in case something MIGHT happen? BTW, I'm not endorsing this compromise idea, just pointing out that less onerous measures exist than what you're suggesting. > Your solutions are the equivalent of saying, "Well, if you don't go into > that part of town, you won't get mugged again." You're changing the scenario. It's more like going into a country where Australians are unpopular and being called names. You have your choice of returning to that country or not. Usenet is not in such a state that when somebody calls you names on the playground you can call in a NetCop to make those mean kids stop calling you names. Even under you proposal, I doubt that you'd find a single country where remailers are allowed to operate that would force a remailer operator to violate a user's privacy over a usenet flame attack. If you wander into a NG where someone doesn't like you, you can either stick around and defend yourself, flame the person back, or move along. Now what sort of usenet "mugging" did you have in mind that you think ALL the governments under which remailers operate would be willing to exert their legal clout to identify and prosecute the perpetrator? Can you cite one example, perhaps, of a real case in which your proposal would have been effective? - ---- Finger <comsec(a)nym.alias.net> for PGP public key (Key ID=19BE8B0D) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJ/C2Abp0h8ZvosNAQGUTwf9FEwJBEjD6HZsYXAaKzTKJMeVOUYoK7z2 /zEU9jNpCrdCO2Fm3TryB7nXHiJyV2HlqUHijgnoYGQsJBeTIKqtpIMG60z4Oi6F THH9ke2bhQmfhkAgWHEZpjj7873mpL50r5lmBrSnwuBkUPejAa3JGR5XFLY4mHau Rxcl+41vyW4YA6AN2IT7F/JFe1YBQLc/i6jgI01ATzEKtRxg0sOfOxiceRm5J6ke CQhmb2ISG2yWetZFH6CY1vslz+6j/bTG9nPGc31LhfPSqLMFKNjlPsuiA11K6Un1 +9bofYFXm/HGvxqqmi4pKnV/D0eSYpUqb2krO+EIdOZaVhv5L9HJHA== =Rl46 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Best Cypherpunk long gun
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12/23/97 2:41 AM, landon dyer (landon(a)best.com) passed this wisdom: >At 10:11 PM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >> >>What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk? > >A Solothurn, natch. For those who don't know: A circa 1938 20mm >anti-tank rifle; be sure to get the high power telescopic sight. >Why screw around? >:-) Is that the one that looks exactly like a BAR on steroids? Huge box magazine held 8 or 10 rounds and humungous bipod and huge recoil pad on the butt. I always wondered what kind of mutant it would take to shoulder fire that thing! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJ/hzD7r4fUXwraZAQGjpQf/QZXGup88+GlhhEF2SV+sJRj4/GSLFmlI PWmchPmfEyifJSJI+8oQIj/IzTkbGf/Mj7H50/txndkR9UXEKmfZ7I8y4H2dlX/k Wc4g4mx3tCSmsWctOA9lN3NWWHs7agNHxdHqsZfYiLSlF191dyl7r0Aw+D7wBwKm VxlJsvrwsC7wZMNbJYoe2PJOTpTL924HYW0v4uL7mJ5EIPykWnhmhEXFksvGvzTE 8fyPW9VZjxjLLpGL4CVAN2xbeIN4PoA9bOkI85aKc+mHKvjqJg6/VZ7sfJcgoT12 ULBsd+7yMERS5dcZGLvXsStIHJarQrYuyTRY5teeScSi4XwUFmUjcA== =sqI1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "The reason worry kills more people than work is that more people worry than work" -- Robert Frost (1874-1963)

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Re: Lock and Load (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Lock and Load (fwd) > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 11:27:11 -0500 > From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr(a)together.net> > >As to first semi-automatic in the country, I believe the > >Springfield 1903 > > Uhhhh ... 03 Springfield is a bolt action .... True enough. > up. It was designed in 1903 and first manufactured in 1905. It was, as > I said, the first semi-auto marketed to the *civilian* market. There > were other semi-auto's but were all military weapons. There wasn't a distinction until the 1920's when the various 'gat' laws because of gangsters, rum runners and such came into play. I have a friend who is a gun collector. I 'll see if he happens to have one. I wanna see this safety... Merry Christmas! ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:11 PM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk? > > You didn't say if you were interested in a trophy or just filling the freezer nor if you would be in open country or in the bush. A good all around choice would be one of the medium power thirty caliber cartridges. It would be prudent to use ammunition lo! aded with well constructed bullets because some Cypherpunks are thick skinned, particularly those with law degrees. LongPigMuncher

2 1

Re: SPECIAL REPORT: Censorware in the Stacks Re: SPECIAL REPORT: Censorware in the Stacks
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Colin Rafferty writes: > > Tim May writes: > > When the state-as-sovereign sets up libraries that don't carry Everything > > (hint: and not even the LOC carries everything), then the choices it makes > > can be seen by some to be First Amendment violations. > > This is not a First Amendment violation. > > The government is not required to promote all speech, but only to not > restrict it. Selection of books for a library does not abdridge freedom > of speech, since the act of not selecting does not reduce speech. > > Modifying the content of the selected books would be an infriging act, > since that is a reduction. > > They cannot subscribe to Playboy and then put pasties on the nipples. > Nor can they subscribe to the Internet and then filter it. And the difference between `selecting' which books to acquire for the library and `selecting' which web pages to receive is what? Those pages `not selected' by the Internet filter are not `reduced' any more than the `not selected' books. There is no consistent application of principle in your arguments. > > A better solution is to get Government out of the business of running > > libraries or providing Net access. > > I fail to see how this will solve anything. Then rub a couple of neurons together and see if you can generate a spark. If the government isn't in the business of either `selecting' books or internet pages, then there is no `selecting' to be done in either case and therefore nothing to be solved. -Frondeur

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Parks and Guns
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've seen a couple of comments about my point about state-run parks not allowing guns in, which would seem to be an interesting case of the state limiting Second Amendment rights on territory it controlled. (I won't push this much further, as the state may also limit firearms in courthouses, in Federal buildings, and so on. Jusitifiably, I might add. But this does make the point that the state-as-employer or state-as-property-manager may do things that seem to directly limit constitutional rights.) Anyway, several comments have focussed on _little_ parks, those little patches of grass and winos and spent syringes in the nation's cities. What I was talking about were the biggies, like the Forest of Nisene Marks, right next to my house, starting on the ridge on the other side of the valley from me. Tens of thousands of acres....hundreds of miles of hiking and biking trails. Get caught with a gun in that park and face jail time. Of course, hikers and bicyclists sometimes get mugged, raped, and murdered in this park, so carrying a gun in one's fanny pack makes a lot of sense. "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6," as the famous saying goes. Interestingly for newcomers to the list, it was putting out this piece of common sense opinion that got me a threatening phone call from the Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Office in the summer of 1995. Seems that someone read my opinions and contacted the authorities...a Sheriff's Deputy called to warn me that my opinion verged on the illegal (oh yeah?) and that he might send a "vehicle" out to my place to have a chat with me and check out my state of mind. When I said something along the lines of, "Fine, but call in advance, so I'll know it's your boy," he flipped out, started furiously typing on a keyboard (I could hear it), and said something like "That comment has been entered in your file as a threat against a law enforcement officer." At that point I told him that there was then no point in talking to him further, if my truthful comments were to be declared "threats." (I guess, as some have argued here recently, I was supposed to have said something like, "Thank you, officer, for pointing out the error of my opinion that hikers and bicyclists ought to take steps to defend themselves. I understand now that weapons are not to be owned or carried by citizen-units, and that a woman facing rapists on a mountain trail should simply dial 9-1-1 at the nearest payphone and wait for the police to arrive. I am sorry I expressed an opinion in these Beknighted States.") --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
by David Honig 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:55 PM 12/23/97 -0500, Colin Rafferty wrote: >William H Geiger writes: >> In <ocryb1c2i2u.fsf(a)ml.com>, on 12/23/97 at 10:30 AM, Colin Rafferty <craffert(a)ml.com> said: >>> Paul Bradley writes: > >>>> Should the government be able to take action against me because I fire >>>> someone for being jewish/black/homosexual??? > >>> Welcome to the 20th Century, moron. > >> Really amazing how many so-called "freedom fighters" become STATIST if the >> proper buttons are pushed. > >What are you talking about? > >Freedom of expression is not the same as freedom of oppression. You aren't being oppressed the other party doesn't want to interact with you, unless that party is government providing base services to all (e.g. police/courts/border protection). You *are* being oppressed if mutually consensual behavior is interfered with by others including the State. You *are* being oppressed if you are coerced into a relationship you don't want. An employer-employee relationship is like a marriage or any other arrangement between adults -mutually consensual. Colin, do you consider yourself oppressed when someone choses not to date you? What about a rejection by someone who takes out a public advertisement in the paper? Freedom is only tested when it hurts. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig(a)otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "Windows 95 is a technologically complex product that is best left alone by the government..." ---MSFT Atty B. Smith

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Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
by Colin Rafferty 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

David Honig writes: > At 12:55 PM 12/23/97 -0500, Colin Rafferty wrote: >> William H Geiger writes: >>> In <ocryb1c2i2u.fsf(a)ml.com>, on 12/23/97 at 10:30 AM, Colin Rafferty <craffert(a)ml.com> said: >>>> Paul Bradley writes: >> >>>>> Should the government be able to take action against me because I fire >>>>> someone for being jewish/black/homosexual??? >> >>>> Welcome to the 20th Century, moron. >> >>> Really amazing how many so-called "freedom fighters" become STATIST if the >>> proper buttons are pushed. >> >> What are you talking about? >> >> Freedom of expression is not the same as freedom of oppression. > You aren't being oppressed the other party doesn't want to interact > with you, unless that party is government providing base services to all > (e.g. police/courts/border protection). Actually, you can be. > You *are* being oppressed if mutually consensual behavior is interfered > with by > others including the State. > You *are* being oppressed if you are coerced into a relationship you don't > want. You are not being coerced into anything. If you don't want to serve food to Blacks, don't open a restaurant. It's your choice. By the way, you are also not allowed to dump toxic waste in your own backyard. Are you being oppressed? > An employer-employee relationship is like a marriage or any other arrangement > between adults -mutually consensual. In a fantasy world, it is mutually consensual. It the real world, it is seldom mutual. > Colin, do you consider > yourself oppressed when someone choses not to date you? What about > a rejection by someone who takes out a public advertisement in the paper? Nope. Of course, this has nothing to do with anything. > Freedom is only tested when it hurts. With freedom comes responsibility. Decency is one of them. -- Colin

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Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
by Colin Rafferty 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lizard writes: > At 12:55 PM 12/23/97 -0500, Colin Rafferty wrote: >> Freedom of expression is not the same as freedom of oppression. > How is someone 'oppressed' by my choosing not to deal with him for some > reasons, but not for other reasons? Either way, he does not get my services. > I refuse to hire you because you are black -- you are oppressed. > I refuse to hire you because you're an Aquarius and my astrologer told me > not to hire Aquarians -- you are not oppressed. > I refuse to hire you because you're a Republican and I'm a Democrat, and I > don't think we'll work well together -- you are not oppressed. > But in all cases, you are not hired. > Explain the logic of this to me. The logic is about patterns of discrimination of society and the State acting as a social engineer to remove the patterns. It is about basic human decency, and giving a person a fighting chance. If society, in general, discriminated against people with freckles, it is likely that it would be made illegal. > (Yes, it is perfectly legal to not hire someone based on star sign, > political affiliation, or having freckles.) > No human being has a right to compel service from another human being. No majority group has a right to discriminate against a minority. You prove that you know The Truth, and I'll prove that I know The Truth. > If I > do not wish to engage in trade with you, that's my right. Would you be less > oppressed if I just closed up shop and refused to trade with ANYONE? Oppression is done by a society. It can only be stopped by acting against the individuals in the society that are doing the oppressing. > The issue here is not expression, but association. That's a good point. However, the alternate doesn't have the same rhythm: Freedom of association is not the same as freedom of oppression. -- Colin

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[Off topic]Discrimination
by Lizard 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:25 PM 12/23/97 -0500, Colin Rafferty wrote: > >The logic is about patterns of discrimination of society and the State >acting as a social engineer to remove the patterns. In other words, rights belong to the collective, not to the individual. If I deny Joe Smith a job for an 'approved' reason (which still has nothing to do with his competence), then, too bad for Joe. But if I deny it for an 'unapproved' reason, equally unrelated to his competance, then I am denying the job to ALL people who share that trait, everywhere. That's a collectivist viewpoint. Either a person -- a single, unique, individual -- has a right to compel someone else to serve him, or he does not. The reasons for denying service are irrelevant TO THAT INDIVIDUAL. >It is about basic human decency, and giving a person a fighting chance. All of which is fine, but why should it be compelled? Didn't you once say that liberalism made the assumption that we were basically moral and should be free to act, rather than the conservative view that we were basically immoral and should be restrained? >If society, in general, discriminated against people with freckles, it >is likely that it would be made illegal. So what good does this do the person dicriminated against, if there is NOT a 'pattern' of it? He's still out of a job. This is the key point:It is the INDIVIDUAL that matters. >> (Yes, it is perfectly legal to not hire someone based on star sign, >> political affiliation, or having freckles.) > >> No human being has a right to compel service from another human being. > >No majority group has a right to discriminate against a minority. There are no groups. There are only individuals. A job, or an offer of goods or services, occurs between individuals -- not groups. If I am denied employment, YOUR bank account does not shrink. If you are granted a high paying job, I do not get rich. My hunger is not yours;yours is not mine. Further, every individual has a right to choose who they will and will not associate with, based on whatever criteria they wish. I don't date mundanes (non-fen). While the inability to have me as a boyfriend is no great loss, I am nonetheless 'discriminating' against a large %age of the female population (and 100% of the male population, FWIW). (Granted, a far larger %age of the female population discriminates against me, as they refuse to date overweight, unattractive, socially inept nerds. Whom do I sue?) > >Freedom of association is not the same as freedom of oppression. > Most people would claim not associating with me is liberating, not oppressing. How is person 'a' oppressed because person 'b' decides, for whatever reason, not to like them?

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[fs] Contemporary Cryptology Book
by travish+cp-01＠dejanews.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I found this at a local half-price bookstore. I purchased a copy for myself and was wondering if any of you wanted one. I do not intend to make any money off of this, I am simply doing it as a favor for fellow crypto-enthusiasts. I believe it would make an excellent companion to "Applied Cryptography". The tone is what you would expect from IEEE Press; more theoretical than A.C., not shying away from the discrete mathematics but without losing sight of the subject, either. There is some mention of the uses of cryptography applications like tamperproofing nuclear monitoring equipment, and other relatively cool stuff. It is apparently a brand new, undamaged book, sold for half price, or about $45. I'll sell it for what I will pay, plus s/h (your choice of carriers), plus COD charge if not prepaid. It is on hold for me until Saturday, so email me soon if you're interested. Here is the original blurb: http://www.ieee.org/ieeestore/compbk.html#pc2717 > An all-in-one guide to the science of information integrity... > > Contemporary Cryptology: The Science of Information Integrity > > edited by Gustavus J. Simmons, Sandia National Labs Albuquerque, NM > > This original source book covers all aspects of the subject with > emphasis on the cryptographic elements. In addition to being an > introductory guide to the latest developments, this volume provides > the engineer and scientist with algorithms, protocols, and applications. > > Copyright 1992/Hardcover/656pp > List Price: $89.95 > Member Price: $77.00 > IEEE Order No. PC2717-QAJ > ISBN 0-87942-277-7 -- Travis Hassloch / travish(a)dejanews.com / http://www.dejanews.com Deja News System Defenestration Group / "When news breaks... we fix it" PGP key C7FDD3D5 fgpt 7A 48 DD 46 E6 7F 11 E7 8F 7E 53 9A DF 33 9E FA

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