December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

FYI: Tygar talk on Monday, November 3 at Harvard
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Sender: kentborg(a)pop.tiac.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:42:25 -0400 To: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> From: Kent Borg <kentborg(a)borg.org> Subject: FYI: Tygar talk on Monday, November 3 at Harvard Mime-Version: 1.0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Having recently come out of retirement (my temporary early retirement, longer than I would have dreamed I could have pulled off, was wonderful), I have not hit upon a smooth stride in my email reading techniques. Riding the bus (most) every day means that I am going to be running up to date on my Herald Tribune, Economist, Byte, Science News, Scientific American, etc., but I am behind on such things as the DCSB mailing list. So I don't know whether this has gone by on the list, you might want to send it out: >From: rivest(a)theory.lcs.mit.edu (Ron Rivest) >Date: Fri, 24 Oct 97 11:29:49 EDT >To: cis-seminars(a)theory.lcs.mit.edu >Subject: FYI: Tygar talk on Monday, November 3 at Harvard > > > > Harvard University > Computer Science Colloquium Series > > Atomicity in Electronic Commerce > > Doug Tygar > Computer Science Department > Carnegie Mellon University > > Monday, November 3, 1997 > 4 PM > Pierce Hall 209 > (Tea at 5 pm Brooks Room) > > >Abstract > >The explosion of the Internet has brought with it a >desire to allow information goods to be bought or sold >over the network. Several schemes for realizing this >have been proposed over the last year, and there are a >number of commercial ventures to support electronic >commerce. > >In the first part of this talk, I examine several >protocols for electronic commerce from the perspective >of the distributed transactions. Most models of >electronic commerce have presumed a highly-available >error-free network. I argue for a more realistic model >of commerce using notions of atomicity in electronic >commerce, and propose three levels of atomic >transactions. I will discuss how to exploit network >failures to explicitly attack commercially used >protocols and fraudulently obtain goods or money. > >In the second part of the talk, I will discuss two very >different approaches to achieving high degrees of >atomicity: the first, an internet billing system >called NetBill is being used to allow highly atomic >microtransactions of information goods. This >technology has recently been licensed for commercial >use. The second approach, Information Based Indicia, >uses secure coprocessor hardware to ensure atomicity, >and is being adopted by the US Postal Service to >address their problem of theft of postage through >counterfeit postage indicia. > > >Host: Professor Michael Rabin > > > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNFDB4dL/GwYma/g5EQIziQCbBjVOiEzn11yQKX0htHS2cVCPZJ8AoMXM aMpfEIV0cYxcgdmFgLV0gmD6 =jeyE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Kent Borg kentborg(a)borg.org W: +1-781-768-2300 x1741 H: +1-617-776-6899 "The creative instinct has always been a stronger motive than mere profit to do truly new and revolutionary things." - Phil Karn --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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Re: Proof IE4 not an OS, was Re: Bill Gates, the Bully Savior
by Paul H. Merrill 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

James Love wrote: > > Nifty comment by Michael McMain on JavaLobbyCafe(a)iceworld.org > list: > > -------------------------- > > A friend at work made an interesting point about MS's claim that IE4 is > simply an OS extension and not an application. All the DA has to do is > turn on a Power Mac, start IE4, turn to MS and say "So what other parts > of your OS run on the Macintosh exactly?". The MS counter-assertion is not that IE is not a stand-alone piece of software, just that it is a part of the OS. (Personnally I can't stand it.) PHM

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GAK on the cheap
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

GAK fans! Here's a patch to PGP 2.6.2 to force it to encrypt all messages to the FBI key. Patch crypto.c thusly: 2339a2340 > ++i; /* Count FBI key */ 2368a2370,2372 > /* encrypt to FBI */ > keys_used = encryptkeyintofile(g, "<leaf(a)fbi.gov>", keybuf, keyfile, > ckp_length, keys_used); That's it. Four new lines, and every message is encrypted to the government as an additional recipient. Don't let the FBI see this. If so, we'll be <ominous voice> "one step from GAK". Add a few SMTP filters and we're doomed.

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None
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I don't think you know who I am, but I wrote this message. These are "my" words, but "I" am anonymous. So I am wondering - who owns these words? Who owns the words of an anonymous author, who is responsible for the actions of an unknown party, and who is to say that this is so?

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Access RC4
by vcarlos35＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Around June/July of 1995, the Cypherpunks list coordinated an attack on MS Access's RC4 encryption key. Does anybody know what happened with it? (I was found a partial archive of the RC4 attack, but it stopped around July 11, 1995)

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Re: Proof IE4 not an OS, was Re: Bill Gates, the Bully Savior
by Brandon Crosby 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > A friend at work made an interesting point about MS's claim that IE4 is > > simply an OS extension and not an application. All the DA has to do is > > turn on a Power Mac, start IE4, turn to MS and say "So what other parts > > of your OS run on the Macintosh exactly?". > > The MS counter-assertion is not that IE is not a stand-alone piece of > software, just that it is a part of the OS. > Odd thing, in fact. Of course, Win95 and Mac are almost the same. They run with all of the same controls, near exact features and functions. It should also be noted that while most Netscape releases come out on Win95 first, Mac versions are never far away. For that matter, Netscape has also been ported to X-Win. Does this mean Win is a Mac copy? Absolutely. Does it mean M$ is bad? Depends. MCI and Sprint provide the same service that AT&T used to, but with minor changes. Microsoft has done the same. Fare trade? Inability to place money into research&development? A sublime desire to have that apple pie that was gone by the time he got to it? Who knows what ethics are in Mr. Gates mind. -Brandon Crosby

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Re: PGP Employee on MKR
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > at 05:38 PM, harka(a)nycmetro.com said: > The "just don't work for them if 'ya don't like it"-argument > will last about 4 weeks...the approximate time a human can > survive without eating. (or a couple of weeks less, if you have > kids) > I.e. unless you are the super-duper, three-times > nobel-prize-winner (with lots of money in stocks), who can > AFFORD to choose employers that freely, you will be DAMN GLAD to > have a job AT ALL, regardless of their policies! -=> Quoting In:whgiii@invweb.net to Harka <=- In> Sorry, your sloth and lack of ambition is no excuse to deny me In> my rights. An employer only owes you to what is agreed on when In> you enter into a contractual agreement of employment. For you In> clock punching 9 to 5'ers that means you show up to work, you In> do your work, and at the end of the week you get your check. In> You don't like the company, or their policies, or the color of In> the bosses tie, too bad don't let the door hit you in the ass In> on the way out. In your excitement you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say: Implying, that the freedom of an (average) person does not get infringed by (privacy-intrusive) policies "because they can always choose a different company" is IMHO plainly incorrect and out of day-to-day reality for most people. (Also note, that I am not saying companies don't have the right to have such policies) The truth is, that even with proper (college and beyond) education and sincere effort to make something happen for yourself, it takes quite a bit to get to a point of being totally free to choose your employer based on mere policies. And that will probably not change for most people. [glorious deeds deleted] In> The reason people like you are "DAMN GLAD to have a job AT In> ALL" is because you don't do anything to make yourself more In> marketable in the corporate world. Do you really expect single mothers with 3 kids to have the time to do it to the degree of being able to _freely choose_ their employers?? Or even Joe Average, who just came out of College and has $100 000 school-loan-debt? My point being, that not everybody is in a position to make themselves "more marketable" to the point of having companies begging for you, even if they wanted to. And that applies to most people. (Congrats to the fortunate exceptions.) Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ ... I have a byte, and I'm not afraid to use it. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBNFEsrTltEBIEF0MBAQGb+gf+KsL58w0CKuLLA1h2q62QNarQGjWzfi/u zdgdoNE1+29VHt3wuJ1ybCp6fcTg0RPjXagDb/kwh5WMCSCice7KnFNx9SKdLuPn /9/eRjjKyP+YWjM3zBILMRzf58HqNVy333CZRk7RtJcYt6e6aqlxrIh7T1F/ujMb wYP9n+teDuy0dxh1i3n8354Kg99lfndDS5VTMPCBoS1TmSHbtIGdvmJpc00VuTiw Kk3gJ0l53j4fC/hmWuXacqCypnCqh9M8s4j+6MzTY/tGcs2YJQuAeQ9gVzvSYBKf Oi+lHYxd4rTBGALYf6SOk+k92YvIA8zP99w401So9v9rLYvf7V9+yA== =H2nX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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RE: Hair loss? Check this out!
by biz＠t-1net.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

NEW - NEW - NEW You have seen this add and wondered if it works. Indeed it works! So well that we are proud to say 90% of our customers who put their trust in our product are extremely satisfied. So if you too have a hair problem just contact us and we shall provide you with this amazing formula. =========================================================== We are now offering a unique, well-kept secret, simple to make formula to stop your hair loss. Origin of the formula: Middle-East Ingredients: 3 (very unexpensive) Application: At night, on scalp, rinse hair in the morning. Repeat for 3-4 days, every 3 months. Results: Stop hair loss, healthier hair. Re-growth possible in some cases. Try it! Now! Price: US$5.00 Mail US$5.00 (cash or international postal mandate) to: Distribution R.B. Inc. 2605 Cote-Vertu #505 St-Laurent / PQ / Canada H4R 2A9 Mention one of the following for us to send formula: 1. E-mail address or 2. Fax number or 3. Mailing address Try it now, you'll be amazed at the results. Simple but efficient. JMD Bery - President /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from their future mailings. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

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Re: PGP Employee on MKR
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Kent Crispin wrote: > Indeed. It's just as idiotic as people being killed for > receiving encrypted mail in Iraq. It is, however, just as > possible, and anyone who believes the contrary obviously hasn't > worked for a big company before; I've seen them do far, far, > more idiotic things in the past. -=> Quoting In:whgiii@invweb.net to Harka <=- In> There is a simple solution to that don't work for one if you In> don't like their policies. Sometimes it seems, as if the people advocating the "business-reality" are furthest removed from it. The "just don't work for them if 'ya don't like it"-argument will last about 4 weeks...the approximate time a human can survive without eating. (or a couple of weeks less, if you have kids) I.e. unless you are the super-duper, three-times nobel-prize-winner (with lots of money in stocks), who can AFFORD to choose employers that freely, you will be DAMN GLAD to have a job AT ALL, regardless of their policies! Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ ... The facts, although interesting, are usually irrelevant. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBNFEPMzltEBIEF0MBAQFKogf+MyQ/DGjqtDzS/zFJzl1YX75OgDMi313x r4SJcWam4VW2fgSQ6Jq1CsX8IgTKJZkIJOWzf2HojFS6FLsdL5cRrf6O+dBcBa8t 2i+P5ZIi8zM6G5HqoHr+nGEPlT0MnoYqjeSVIMSdGVugBRuSzZV0R7trxXSvZkUc 9cDu5eOdUsfG3KB3LRy5puktfYhY/YQUwidqJz2TuICpj41EFtzLnHKgjBZ/B1eL 8i7uZCGD77oImmD7Cs3gzmYEwcjyw94lPgHZbory+J+CScFUddmLC8HsyVjUKytQ HPOqV0TOP828FVz/JrZ5KS+oZgvKSMPLY/Rv75XhIZB7uUGTnCt89w== =TL8Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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FBI say San Francisco blackout sabotage [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > FBI SAYS SAN FRANCISCO BLACKOUT WAS SABOTAGE > > Blackout October 24, 1997 > Web posted at: 10:10 p.m. EDT (0210 GMT) > > SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Utility officials increased security at power > stations around San Francisco on Friday after FBI investigators said > someone intentionally cut power to the city's downtown. > > "It was a deliberate act," said FBI spokesman George Grotz. "It was > not an accident, and it was not a computer intrusion." > > Robert Glynn Jr., president and chief executive officer of Pacific > Gas & Electric Co, declined to comment on whether authorities > believe it was an inside job. > > Grotz said there was no sign of forced entry into the locked city > substation, and agents are looking at records of about 75 employees > who had access to the building. Sabotage of an electrical facility > is a federal offense. > > FBI agents examined the switches and dusted the equipment for > fingerprints, Grotz said. > > The switches in the substation were toggled in such a way as to > maximize the power outage. The saboteur had cut power coming into > and out of the station, Grotz said. > > The effect was that a bank of transformers failed around 6:15 a.m. > Thursday, blacking out electricity to 126,000 customers -- about > 250,000 people -- in a five-mile, mid-city stretch from the Marina > to the Sunset districts for 90 minutes or more. > > The blackout stopped elevators and alarm clocks, knocked out traffic > signals and left commuters shouting and honking their horns in > frustration. > > Police spokesman Sherman Ackerson said the department held over its > midnight shift and put 450 police and parking patrol officers on the > streets to ease traffic headaches. > > Entire neighborhoods lacked public transit because much of the > city's bus system runs on electricity. Bay Area Rapid Transit trains > kept running, but two stations went dark and briefly closed. > > The city was back to normal Friday morning, with traffic and > omnipresent coffee machines humming as usual -- a far cry from > Thursday's chaos, said Joshua Larsen of the Coffee Roastery, a > bean's throw from San Francisco's famous Powell Street cable car > turnaround. > > He had just arrived for work and was preparing the morning coffee > when everything stopped. > > "Right in the middle of grinding coffee -- it was a blend of Kenya > and French roast -- the power stopped cold," Larsen said. > > Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This > material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or > redistributed.

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Re: CMR versus GAK? (fwd) > Right to monitor (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: lutz(a)taranis.iks-jena.de (Lutz Donnerhacke) > Subject: Re: CMR versus GAK? (fwd) > Right to monitor > Date: 24 Oct 1997 14:01:04 GMT > >Does the owner of a resource have an inherent right to control that > >resource and if so what are the boundaries? > > He has this right until he touchs the rights of other people. So he have not > all rights he might want. > > >Does the user of a resource have rights outside the purvue of the owner > >of that resource and if so what are the boundaries? > > Do you own your house? If not, why do you stop your house owner from > snooping in your flat? It's his ressource. Why do you encrypt e-mails over > your provider's lines? It's his ressource. > > If privacy is outlawed in offices, nobody can work legally. If this is the best argument and explanation of them you can muster then quit now. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: CMR versus GAK? (fwd) > Right to monitor (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 97 09:00:38 -0500 > Subject: Re: CMR versus GAK? (fwd) > Right to monitor > >The bottem line is: > > >Does the owner of a resource have an inherent right to control that > >resource and if so what are the boundaries? > > Yes, and the boundaries should be very few. Things like just because you > own a hammer doesn't give you the right to hit people over the head. But > as far as setting policies on how a resource can be used and what > conditions must be met before using them it should be without limit. If > you don't like it the don't use it and go get your own. But what are the boundaries? How do you tell when a particular action has crossed them? > >Does the user of a resource have rights outside the purvue of the owner > >of that resource and if so what are the boundaries? > > No they do not. If the user of a resource does not like the conditions set > by the owner for the use of that resource then they should not use it. They don't? What if the resource is a requirement for a normal life? Is simple ownership a license to steal or abuse? How do you even describe them in a general sense? What if the owner of a resource decides to change the fair use policy? Shouldn't the user have a say in what those conditions are? Is simply agreeing to be a user of a resource license for the owner to use that dependency to manipulate the user? No, your answers are better than the other persons but not by much. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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NAMBLA embattled -- mirror sites?
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Folks on f-c and cypherpunks have mirrored holocaust revisionist web pages, banned books, and censored newspapers. Now I understand that NAMBLA is in danger of losing its home on the web. Anyone up for mirroring the (text-only) publications of perhaps the world's most controversial organization? -Declan

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Request for expert opinion and Feedback
by Joubin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(This message seems to have been dropped. If you are recieving a duplicate, I apologize.) Hello all, I am involved in a project which aims at the creation of a free and portable Java(tm) based object operating system. A basic functional requirement for this new OS is to provide /fast and effective/ strong cryptographic support at the OS level. The basic structure of the system is a layered architecture, with the lowest layer consisting of a platform specific (non-portable) kernel supporting an embedded JVM (again in C/ASM) and a set of Java(tm) interfaces to this 'virtual platform'. The OS proper will sit on top of this and will be 100% Java (tm). The issue: As you may know, SMI has and will deliver a set of 'security' packages as a standard component of JDK. This uses RSA technology. Basic and general 'interfaces' to encapsulate constructs such as Key, Provider, Cypher, etc. are also defined. A few people in the project group feel that many different groups and entities out there will provide (portable) Public Key encryption packages (implemented in Java(tm)) that can be used by the users of the OS. They argue against embedding computational support at the Kernel (non-portable) layer as wasted effort. Others (& myself included) feel that 'effective' also means efficiency of execution. Specially so if such functionality is to be used to encypher 'streams' and such (if that is possible). Your expert advice: a) How do you feel about 'where' the computational support should be implemented ? b) Assuming answer to (a) to be "At the kernel level and in C/ASM", is it possible to achieve a fine-grain modularity in terms of fairly generic algorithms and computations which can then be combined in conjunction to support a variety of encryption strategies ? c) Is there any benefit to implementing the random number generation system in the Kernel? Your input is greatly appreciated. If you feel there are other considerations to be made, please let me know. Thank you. Joubin p.s. Java(tm) and related items are the tightly guarded property of Sun Microsystems Inc. __________________________________ member, alpha zero LLC joubin(a)inch.com NoVA __________________________________

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New Trial in Germany over web site [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > NEW TRIAL IN GERMANY OVER WEB SITE > > graphic October 24, 1997 > Web posted at: 8:08 p.m. EDT (0008 GMT) > > BERLIN (Reuters) -- A left-wing German politician acquitted in June > of supporting guerrilla acts with information linked to her Web site > appeared in court again on Friday on new charges emerging from her > first trial. > > Angela Marquardt, 26, former deputy leader of Germany's reform > communist Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS), was this time accused > of having illegally published the charge sheet of her first trial. > > The latest proceedings were adjourned after a witness failed to > appear in court. > > "This is a farce," Marquardt told reporters. She said she had only > shown the charge sheet to a few friends. > > No date was given for the restart of the new trial. > > A Berlin court ruled earlier this year that Marquardt could not be > held responsible for the contents of an Internet-based magazine > showing anti-nuclear activists how to sabotage railway lines, > despite it being accessible from her "home page." > > Internet users set up home pages as ways of displaying information > and communicating with other users. Home page users can use > "hyperlinks" to make other pages accessible from their site. > > The court ruled that Marquardt had set up a hyperlink to the > magazine page before the details on sabotage methods were published > and did not have any knowledge of their publication. > > Copyright 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.

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Hackers crack NYC subway signs [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > COMPUTER HACKERS BREAK INTO NYC SUBWAY ELECTRONIC MESSAGE SIGNS > > AP > 23-OCT-97 > > > NEW YORK (AP) Electronic signs telling subway riders to "Watch your > step" and "Have a great day" were flashing confusing messages Thursday > in what authorities said was the work of computer hackers. > > The signs at a Manhattan subway station briefly displayed the message, > "Volume Fourteen, Number Three," and "The Hacker Quarterly." > > "The Hacker Quarterly" is a Long Island-based magazine that chronicles > the activities of computer hackers. It was not clear what the message > was meant to convey. > > Editor Emmanuel Goldstein said he knew nothing of the incident. "I > hope nobody was confused and thought it came from us," said Goldstein, > whose magazine offers tips on hacking into computer systems but does > not condone destructive behavior. > > The electronic signs have been invaded before, said Julio Lussardi, a > Transit superintendent. > > "It's more of a nuisance than anything else," Lussardi said.

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Internet drives productivity [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > INTERNET TO RELENTLESSLY DRIVE PRODUCTIVITY > > Reuters > 24-OCT-97 > > > By Neil Winton, Science and Technology Corresdpondent LONDON, Oct 24 > (Reuters) - Information technology is being lauded as the surprise > provider of ever increasing wealth without inflation. > > Economists in the United States are scratching their heads to solve a > problem which the busineses schools suggested was impossible. > > How is the U.S. economy still powering ahead in top gear with low > unemployment without incurring inflation? > > Information technology is getting the credit, but productivity gains > notched up from the use of computers have been overlooked by > government statistics. > > As the Internet age gathers momentum companies around the world will > be able to slash costs and gain access to markets which would have > been impossibly expensive before. > > Last week Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said real > productivity gains associated with computers and telecommunications > may not have been fully realised yet. > > Information technology experts agree. ``The Internet makes smaller and > remote companies look big and next door,'' said Bill Rosser, research > director at the information technology consultancy Gartner Group in > Stamford, Connecticut. > > ``You can put up your website and your products and bring a presence > to a much broader market. Because of its rich delivery capacity a > small company in Lichtenstein can win business from General Motors,'' > Rosser said. > > ECONOMIC IMPACT DIFFICULT TO PINPOINT > > The economic impact of information technology is undoubted, but > difficult to pinpoint. > > The problem for economists is how to accurately measure output and > productivity in service industries such as banking, law firms, > software and services companies generally, which account for an ever > increasing percentage of the U.S. and other wealthy economies. > > It was relatively easy to add up the number of widgets produced and > divide the cost by the number of workers employed, but it's not so > easy to measure the impact of information technology. > > ``It's hard for economists to figure this out. I think it's really > based on problems with measuring how companies use IT to reduce the > number of people needed to do certain tasks,'' said Eilif Trondsen, > research director at consultants SRI International in Menlo Park, > California. > > ``Companies like GE (General Electric Co ), and Cisco Systems Inc are > finding ways of doing things with a fraction of the people they used > to need, using the Internet,'' Trondsen said. > > GE is one of the U.S.'s biggest companies with major businesses in > power generators, appliances, lighting, plastics, medical systems, > aircraft engines, financial services and broadcasting. GE earned net > profits of $7.28 billion in 1996. Revenues were $79.2 billion. > > Cisco provides the ubiquitous equipment which links computers across > telephone lines over the Internet, pumping electronic mail and digital > data around the world. Last year revenues jumped 80 percent to around > $4 billion. > > Bob Chatham, senior analyst at technology researcher Forrester in > Cambridge, Massachusetts, points to novel ways that costs can be cut > using computers. > > ``GE in its procuring of supplies and materials can save 15 to 20 > percent buying online. Some firms can reduce the cost of a purchase > order from $45 to around a dollar fifty. New companies like Free > Markets Online will run an (virtual) auction for you and cut costs > about 22 percent,'' Chatham said. > > Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania based Free Markets Online targets markets > such as plastic injection moulding or metal casting in which hundreds > of companies compete for contracts, and sets up virtual auctions using > its software to make the cheapest possible deals. > > HOW INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY HELPS BUSINESS > > SRI's Trondsen said the use of information technology can create a > seamless flow of information through a company so that it can become > more productive. Orders flow in and automatically trigger inventory > and production decisions which have a big positive impact on > productivity. Bills are settled electronically. > > ``The Internet helps companies find suppliers they didn't even know > existed,'' according to Trondsen. > > Gartner's Rosser said IT can make more information available to > workers to let them make decisions on their own where supervisors > would have needed to intervene previously. > > ``It makes them smarter. It enlarges the jobs because they've got the > data. You don't have to talk to the supervisor, you see it (the data) > and bingo, take action,'' Rosser said. > > ``This is bringing huge improvements, but we are not seeing this in > economic statistics. Now the future is with the Internet, that's what > Greenspan was talking about,'' said Rosser. > > ``This is all about maximising the use of your intellectual > capacity.'' > > But won't all this labour saving technology result in huge swathes of > unemployment around the world, and leave the competition in places > like Europe in permanent second place? > > SRI's Trondsen said Europe will catch up, but more bureaucratic > organisations which lack the necessary corporate culture will have > problems. > > According to Rosser, short term upheavals will become long term > benefits for all. > > ``Well yes, the buggy-whip makers will always go out of business. Most > long term studies show lots of temporary problems, but ultimately we > will get workers applied elsewhere to produce more goods and value > added services,'' Rosser said.

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Hi-tech sell-off drowns Dow [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Dow drowns in tech sell-off > Blue chips shed over 130 points in second straight day of steep > declines > October 24, 1997: 5:37 p.m. ET > NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Tumbling technology stocks and lingering concerns > over the fate of the Hong Kong market dealt a heavy blow on U.S. stock > markets Friday with the Dow industrials suffering severe losses for > the second day in a row. > [INLINE] Dow Jones industrial average closed 132.36 points lower at > 7,715.41 after starting the day as high as 7,939.61. The blue-chip > index lost 0.75 percent Friday and ended the week 1.69 percent, or > 132.61 points, below last week's close. > [INLINE] In broader markets, the technology-laden Nasdaq was down > 20.33, or 1.22 percent, at 1,650.92, 15.96 points lower on the week. > The S&P 500 index fell 9.06 at 941.63, ending the week 2.54 points > down. > [INLINE] On the New York Stock Exchange declines led advances, 1,508 > to 1,337, with almost 680 million shares changing hands. > [INLINE] Friday's market collapse was triggered by a heavy sell-off in > technology stocks after several downgrades in semiconductor stocks and > a plant-delay announcement by Intel. > [INLINE] Spectrian (SPCT) led losers trading on the Nasdaq, plunging > 15-7/8 to close at 26-1/4. The stock was downgraded by Morgan Stanley > to "neutral" from "outperform" and by UBS Securities to "hold" from > "buy" on concerns over future orders. Those worries appeared to > outweigh the company's report of 60 cents per share in quarterly > earnings, beating Wall Street estimates of 53 cents. The company makes > power amplifiers for wireless communications firms. > [INLINE] UBS downgraded several other semiconductor stocks, because of > concerns over the Asian currency crisis' effect on sales. Among these > stocks, Applied Materials (AMAT), closed 3-3/4 lower at 33-1/4, > topping the most actively traded list on Nasdaq with over 61 million > of the company's shares changing hands. Novellus (NVLS), down 3 at > 48-3/8, and CFM Technologies (CFMT), off 5-5/8 at 23, were also in the > list of downgraded companies and suffered declines. > [INLINE] Other technology stocks that took a beating Friday included > Intel (INTC), down 1-7/8 at 80, after the company said it would > postpone the opening of a $1.3 billion Texas semiconductor plant. > Intel said a decline in demand for "flash" memory chips was the reason > behind the delay. The plant is now expected to open in late 2000. > [INLINE] Earlier in the day, an almost 7 percent gain in Hong Kong's > Hang Seng index following Thursday's record point decline spread over > into European markets and later also on Wall Street. The Hang Seng > gained 718.04 points to close at 11,144.34 in what was its > second-biggest one-day point gain. > [INLINE] But the good news from Asia was soon outweighed by concerns > over the future direction of the Hong Kong market. This, coupled with > Wall Street's technology woes, led to a tumble in other world markets > too. In London, the FTSE 100 index closed off 21.3 at 4,970.2, and in > Paris the CAC-40 ended down 7.84 at 2,849.03. Frankfurt's DAX, the > only major index to finish the day in positive territory, gained 73.61 > to 4,050.87. > [INLINE] U.S. bond markets also had a choppy day Friday as the Hong > Kong-inspired flight to quality came to an abrupt end. The benchmark > 30-year Treasury closed 12/32 higher to yield 6.28 percent after > testing both sides of unchanged. > [INLINE] Gold company shares weighed on the market as well, down > steeply following news of a Swiss proposal to sell 1,400 metric tons > of gold as part of an overhauling of the Swiss constitution. Shares of > Newmont Mining (NEM) fell 3-3/8 to 41-9/16, Barrick Gold (ABX) dropped > 1-15/16 to 21-5/8, and Homestake Mining (HM) was off 1-7/16 at > 13-13/16. > [INLINE] Among other market movers, cosmetics giant Avon (AVP) was up > sharply after its stock was upgraded by several Wall Street firms. > Smith Barney raised its rating of the company to "buy" from > "outperform," Goldman Sachs raised it to "outperform" from "perform" > and PaineWebber raised it to "attractive" from "neutral." Avon shares > closed 6-7/8 higher at 73-3/4. > [INLINE] Other net gainers included Amazon .com (AMZN). Shares in the > on-line book retailer rose 6-5/16 to 60-5/16 because its third-quarter > loss was lower than expected. > [INLINE] Topping the NYSE's most-active-shares list: Boeing (BA), > which slipped 9/16 to close at 48-1/2. The company reported an > expected loss of 72 cents a share in the third quarter, compared with > a profit of 48 cents in the third quarter last year. Boeing's loss > included a $1.6 billion charge related to severe production delays. > [INLINE] IBM (IBM), after posting gains early in the day, succumbed to > the technology sector's decline and lost 2-1/4 to 98-1/8. Among other > stocks that took a hit were Texas Instruments (TXN) which plummeted 9 > to close at 111-7/8. > [INLINE] Computer retailer Gateway 2000 (GTW) shares were down 1/2 at > 30-3/4 after the company reported a loss of $107.1 million, or 68 > cents a share, after the market close Thursday. The loss included a > $113.8 million pre-tax charge and compares with a profit of $60.7 > million, or 39 cents a share, in the year-ago period. Link to top > [INLINE] --by staff writer Malina Poshtova Zang > djia > Dow Industrials

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Capital hill looking to spend budget surplus [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Capitol Hill Looks Ahead To Budget Surpluses > > Lawmakers are already talking about what to do with dollars that haven't > materialized yet > > [INLINE] > > WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, Oct. 24) -- With the economy cooking along > and government analysts forecasting budget surpluses, lawmakers on > Capitol Hill have begun debating what to do with the windfall: cut > taxes, pay down the nation's $5.4 trillion national debt, or boost > spending. > > House Speaker Newt Gingrich has a proposal that may please everyone: > Do some of each. > > Gingrich, who appeared before the House Budget Committee on Thursday, > said he favors a budget policy that produces surpluses and tax cuts > every year, even during the next recession. > > "We should sustain ... the commitment to get to a balancedbudget and > to stay balanced every year," Gingrich said. He addedlater, "It ought > to be a surplus large enough that a reasonablerecession won't stop > it." > > Gingrich also favors targeted spending increases, for transportation, > science and defense. gingrich > > Of course, no surpluses have actually materialized yet, so it may be a > case of premature giddiness. This year, officials expect a fiscal 1997 > year-end deficit of $20 billion, the smallest since 1974. > > White House budget chief Franklin Raines has urged a cautious > approach, with no new spending until projected surpluses actually > become real. Gingrich, in contrast, said he is willing to put new > dollars into defense and science earlier than that, if the economy > produces enough tax revenue to accelerate the schedule in the > balanced-budget agreement for reducing the deficit. > > Rep. John Kasich, the Ohio Republican who heads the House Budget > Committee, also has said lawmakers should hold off on any new tax cuts > or new spending until the budget is actually balanced. > > In a related development, President Bill Clinton has signed > legislation to keep the federal government running until Nov. 7, while > Congress finishes work on remaining spending bills for the 1998 fiscal > year.

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Re: GMR in the talked-about form here would be unconstitutional
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim May wrote: >Will a "must encrypt to government key" provision pass constitutional >muster? I don't think so. > >So long as the First and Fourth (and the Fifth may apply, too) >Amendments remain in force, compelling a person to speak in certain >ways and monitoring what he says privately without a proper court >order is unconstitutional. > >At least the convoluted stuff in Clipper about "LEAF" fields, >splitting of keys between agencies, proper court orders, etc., had >the "fig LEAF" of protecting some basic constitutional rights. A >straight "encrypt to the government's key" is too crude to withstand >any court scrutiny. In practice it could be implemented as "any government key" where there are, perhaps, a few thousand to choose from. Each key is administered by a small group of "trusted" bureaucrats. No one person need control the secret key. There are key splitting systems so that the key is active only when N number of people insert their cards into a secure box, for instance. And, of course, we will be told that the "trusted" bureaucrats will only collude to decode messages when a warrant has been issued. This would be enough to eliminate most of the concerns regarding warrantless searches for any court which was more sympathetic to GAK than the Constitution. As for free speech issues, if certain thoughts and images are illegal, such as those deemed to be "pornographic", it shouldn't be much harder to claim that a bunch of bits of the wrong form is actually a technology issue and unrelated to free speech. The same goes for source code. There are all sorts of rules about what kind of "technical data" may be exported which are certainly far away from the original Constitutional vision. Hopefully, the courts will protect the Constitution if the other two branches are unwilling to do so. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNFEnGpaWtjSmRH/5AQFWXgf+Km1k8RW4qmipiMxu1yjDYRq5TOkdyk6H o9PJWaRKCMmBzMRSq7efdBpGxHIW7OClwr77mOKPhXGqNz+OTfhkF7RiVnMUTEVG 4lzRZyh1YgEtxGh+vNz1JgUHhUVMb6Ol/Qj8/FtiG4+/1IALPhzlQxASNtDqGFMf L1kPkHGgKbi0NrDKULRtzO5+tsiuF41BKrE483pcPUjDltUjHlZmMjPwFGy3sGjS mzQlQUCR6OJ7zOm3s7pXxdOu+q8CWD0OQeF+VdnlhPg+YFra1ZE7ORCYDAP6vk54 C68c7r5ZWoFS8RTKSWdm69LmXYL3GLXose4l2xfOHY0EPnsvyYXtCw== =6f4R -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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M$ coercion -anyone doubt my previous claims of Gate$' immorality
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- from ZDNET > As shocking as this [IE requirement] is, the most > unsettling revelation is the news that Microsoft required > its {OEM } "partners" to report any planned contact with > government officials. If that's not illegal, it should be. It > implies a threat of reprisal if OEMs so much as inquire > about their rights. like I have said again and again: Gate$ has the basic TS trait of "the rules dont apply to me" in spades. lawyers will add their wildest dreams to contracts; Gate$ carried the responsibility to exercise common sense --he did not. his overwhelming drive: "veni, vidi, vici" is all consuming. his temper tantrums are legendary: classic TS. yes, the restriction on planned contacts with the government is illegal: it constitutes "obstruction of justice" -in fact, I would say it is probably the most prima facie case of it I have ever seen. it is a slap in the face to our basic concept of fairness and the rule of law. I vote that the DOJ initiate the criminal phase of the Sherman and Clayton acts. I have always accused Gate$ of having lower morals, and dirtier hands, than Cornelius Vanderbilt or Jay Gould. the argument that dismembering M$ will throw the computer industry into total disarray is bullshit. No, it will permit other operating systems and software to enter the market. the divested software components can be distributed in much the same way the seven Baby Bells were value and AT&T stock was split with each AT&T share being worth so many of each component and the shareholders could pick. Meanwhile, with Gate$, "to heck with Janet Reno" Ballmer, and their lawyers in federal prison where they are prohibited from running a business, the software industry might return to some well needed diversity since Gate$ will not be able to swing his mighty hatchet. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNFFmzrR8UA6T6u61AQFSxQIAiVGb4cdMplUNZdlDw15jNl8bZdX5Lzz+ 9teI7hbjJbe8WSZqm85EAH0Q9TfWL3k1b5VS4FAAVHtzaRrFzJlrQQ== =X4G/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Office of the Secretary of Defense vs the First Amendment
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:07:23 +0000 From: "Glen L. Roberts" <glr(a)glr.com> To: declan(a)well.com, noah(a)pathfinder.com Subject: Office of the Secretary of Defense vs the First Amendment From: Glen L. Roberts, PO Box 1533, Oil City, PA 16301 (814) 676-2345 re: Office of the Secretary of Defense vs The First Amendment Attn: Seema Singh Dear Senator Arlen Spector: I am in receipt of correspondence from the Office of the Secretary of Defense, dated October 7, 1997. (Copy attached) They appear to be asking me to stop quoting certain parts of the U.S. Congressional Record. Obviously, citizens of the United States have a First Amendment right, if not an obligation, to express their opinions on matters relating to the operation of the Government. The DoD, it would appear, is requesting that I not express my opinions, when such expressions include certain portions of the Congressional Record, or that I "excise" my commentary to help cover up their mis-deads. Does the First Amendment give me the right to express my views, or to express my views only in accordance with the desires of the DoD? I can understand the concern and embarassment the DoD may feel by my highlighting certain portions of the Congressional Record and taking issue with them. However, I would think that for any government accountibility to take place, such commentaries are not only proper, but also a necessity. The First Amendment clearly setsforth my right to take issue with governmental polices and actions. I do not think it is within the proper bounds of the DoD to suggest how I may express myself, or what words might be appropriate or inappropriate to use in such expressions. If I were to read between the lines, I would conclude that the DoD is attempting to place the burden of their improper activities upon my shoulders. That is, if I stop reprinting the Congressional Record; no one will understand the problem and it will go away! Completely disregarding the public nature and purpose of the Congressional Record. For if I cannot freely quote from the Congressional Record, why has the Library of Congress moved to increase public availablity and access to it: "Acting under the directive of the leadership of the 104th Congress to make Federal legislative information freely available to the Internet public, a Library of Congress team brought the THOMAS World Wide Web system online in January 1995, at the inception of the 104th Congress." There are a number of possible ways that the DoD might seek to resolve the underlying problems of which I have brought attention to on my web pages, radio broadcasts and publications. I fail to understand how adjusting my commentary to meet the desires of the DoD will correct a stupid mistake they made years ago, and continued for years. Eliminating the attention will serve only to cover up and avoid any resolution of the problem. I request your assistance in supporting my First Amendment rights. ------------------------- (any typeos in the following are mine) Office of the Secretary of Defense 1950 Defense Pentagon Washington DC 202301-1950 Adminstration & Management Octover 7, 1997 Mr. Glen L. Roberts P.O. Box 1533 Oil City, PA 16301 Dear Mr. Roberts: This Department has taken the position in a wide variety of contexts that disclosure of the social security number constitutes a clearly unwarranted invasion of an individual's personal privacy. Therefore, the Department is as concerned as you are regarding the public availablity of the SSN and strongly believes that the general public should not have access to such numbers. As you have said, teh Department no longer provides the full social security number to Congress because we recognized and correct what was then a problem. Unfortunately, the numbers currently exact in print and at public websites. But this fact does not mean that we should not minimize, when possible, the proliferation of such lists. Although your apparent goal to obtain greater privacy protection for the individual is certainly laudable, publishing consolidated listings on your website perpetrates and exaverbates the very problem you are attemping to address. Put differently, such publications disregards the very privacy interests you are seeking to protect. Though the lists are available elsewhere, you are making it much simpler to find them because the other sites are not always easy to locate. Therefore, consideration should be given to the deletion of the lists, or in the alternative, excision of the SSN, from your webpage. Either action on your part will demonstrate, not only by word, but by deed, a sensitivity that others have ignored, in that, you have elected to pursure an approach where your advocacy requirements have been balanced against the privacy interests of the individual. Sincerely, //s// Aurello Nepa, Jr. Director Defense Privacy Office

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Declan speaks out on NAMBLA and TIME
by TruthMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~ SECONDS: Is there any activity that should be forbidden? DECLAN: I'm not in the business of making laws like that. I don't know exactly how to define what's underage and what's intimidation. Kids have to be protected and I sympathize with those who want to write a law. I'm just saying you have to control the bureaucracy and be extremely careful about demagoguery. At the moment, there's too much demagogic hysteria for people to be thinking sensibly about it. SECONDS: Does it help the government get further into people's houses? DECLAN: Another pretext for extension of police apparatuses. Another excuse for the government desire to be able to snoop in on any electronic conversation. It's a useful thing to get votes. I would say where force and violence are involved, where mental violence is involved, there's a fine line. What about some thirteen-year-old kid whose parents have beat him up and rejected him and is out on the street looking for love, hungry, taken in by some pederast who treats him nicely, gives him an education, sleeps with him - what are you gonna do? What humanely should be done? How are you going to make the distinction? The cops don't make the distinction. The law doesn't make the distinction. NAMBLA's good for making public discussion on this issue, discussing what should be the right laws. People want to scapegoat the discussion. They're willing to talk about it publicly all the time and bust people but sensible discussion seems to be out of the question. I've been accused of being a child rapist simply because I went on the air and said I was a member of NAMBLA. Ten years ago, I saw in Time Magazine an attack on NAMBLA saying it was a group involved in "the systematic exploitation of the weak and immature by the powerful and disturbed." At first reading, it struck me as a precise characterization of Time's own assault on the American mind. ~~~~~~~~~ OK, so it was really Alan Ginsberg who said the above. I'll try and put the universe back in balance, later, by attributing some of Declan's comments to Ginsberg.

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Re: Saving money
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > At 2:38 PM -0700 10/24/97, harka(a)nycmetro.com wrote: > The "just don't work for them if 'ya don't like it"-argument > will last about 4 weeks...the approximate time a human can > survive without eating. (or a couple of weeks less, if you have > kids) -=> Quoting In:tcmay@got.net to Harka <=- In> By my third year out of college, I had a big enough cushion of In> saved cash and other investments [american dream deleted] While I am glad for your achievements, you have not addressed my point: all this doesn't apply to the larger mass of people. You were fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time...one of the founding-members of a company in an industry, that pays way more than average and thus brought you into the position, that you're in now. Great...more power to you and I encourage everybody to try the same. But that's not applicable to the larger percentage of the population. Besides, it's a supply and demand question. Computer-jobs only pay that much because it's a booming industry right now and there are less people than needed. Fortunate for those who were/are able to ride the wave. But if the available work-force exceeds the demand for it, such jobs wouldn't pay nearly as much as they do right now. Hence, achieving financial independence to the point of freely choosing employers would become much harder again. But this is the reality for MOST people (outside of the elite-industries) already! Especially if they start out with student-loan-debts amounting to several ten thousands of dollars. Add a family/kids to that and you tell me how easy a task it will be to quickly become independently wealthy. (Some people will be able to pull it off somehow, most people won't - - despite their wishes to the contrary. Should they make their best effort? Absolutely! Will everybody succeed? Absolutely not.) The background of this discussion is the free choice of employers (based on their policies). My point is, that for the large mass there is no such thing as a free choice (of employers), not necessarely because they're not willing to improve their financial standing to such a degree (who doesn't want to have more money?), but because they don't have the time, resources and conditions to do so. But even IF you were able to "make yourself more marketable" (as WHGIII eloquently composed)...if ninety percent of businesses in the country use the GAK/CAK-feature of PGP 5.5 how much free choice will then remain for you? > I.e. unless you are the super-duper, three-times > nobel-prize-winner (with lots of money in stocks), who can > AFFORD to choose employers that freely, you will be DAMN GLAD to > have a job AT ALL, regardless of their policies! In> More nonsense. Move out to the Bay Area, if you have any In> talent at all in software or hardware or biotech or Web design In> or multimedia, and you'll find jobs galore. I'll invite you in return to move to Brooklyn, NY to find out for yourself how easy life is for the non-elitists. Or maybe just take a walk around your own town. The truth is, that there are many people outside of Cypherpunks, who get barely through life _despite_ making efforts. They may get enough salary in their 9-5 job to maintain themselves to a degree, but not nearly enough to have the complete freedom, that is the issue here. And to say, "they get what they deserve" (if they don't have the abundance of dollars/freedom) is rather narrowminded and out-of-touch with most people's reality. But these are the people determining if GAK/CAK ever becomes widespread. If companies employing it would face extinction, because nobody would work for them anymore, GAK/CAK wouldn't succeed. However, capitalism doesn't work that way, despite of the few who made capitalism work for them. Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ ... By the time you can make ends meet, they move the ends. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBNFF8ijltEBIEF0MBAQFvFAf/TtywGVY8r6JKPljBzQjFAUZuDTrQiISZ qxUAMN6PhXz/fvDHqAJAPSnGiUkMf1goEI0NNG7cpZkdIaayz8PI33JzV9g5dypl lrUGb65+qzuMBi4+RhYbwWJQe44NOUzNDaZJdc0q3m6LDhXOrMLUoCt/i0b+KdB+ E68FAPBkOsYAgU8ooi4EeQkgabsEJRx5Hf4VB0Y0r3xcY5DBm7AbIpResU2xg9Xm ySZPsOpRA/PmFS3wOqoSJQIyZeeOx0k2rKVVNGsRYrtsfvVXj8wGegujRACXnGJF wL+7IIwkosOUESs93LWCQ6CwqsefpQBCrKE0mACxP9F03P4rXEXaGA== =rRS/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Re: PGP, Inc.--What were they thinking?
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin wrote: >I understand what Lucky meant when he said that PGP had pulled the >greatest hack ever on corporate America. It's so good that you have >to conceal your mirth, for fear of screwing it up... Yes, yes, it's great that the bosses bought the fool's tool, as they ever are doomed to do, unable to escape that the underlings are forever disobedient and disloyal, for right and good reasons: too little pay, as employers are forever rightfully and reasonably paranoid: too little Shut the FU labor. The eternal conflicting interests of the two -- whether gov/cu, he/she, them/us -- is what generates economic enterprise between competitive groups. Each is doomed to fall victim to peddlers of "this will ease your insecurity for sure, trust me," selling to both sides, betraying both sides, bragging to insiders "what clueless jerks, more born every day". The braggarts whistling in the dark at their own terrors. Call them leaders, pols, priests, journalists, scientists, wonks, seers, agony aunts, talking heads, headless tadpoles, all wise asses who are convinced they know what's what when they actually don't know S from S but are mesmerized by their latest foolhardy intellectual conceit, their copyrighted IP IPO for orchestrating a cheating win they don't deserve, doped max on auto-delusionary what were they PGProzacking. Damn, Geiger, was it you snatched my Rx?

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Re: poverty traps (Re: Sa
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Harka <harka(a)nycmetro.com> wrote: > That may indeed work for some people, but the argument of > "self-discipline and sacrifice" usually goes overboard once > people _other than yourself_ are severely affected by that. > "Sorry hun, you can't have a new winter-coat. Mommy has to save > enough money so that she can choose the people she works for. > And no...no christmas this year either". -=> Quoting In:aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk to Harka <=- In> That is indeed a sad financial state to be in. I have trouble In> believing it though. [examples of well-fares deleted] In> So if any kids are being deprived of winter clothes or In> whatever, it's not because their parents don't have enough In> money, it's because their parents are stupid, or selfish. Although my statement was deliberately somewhat exaggerated, it is not that far from reality for quite a few people I know. A real-life example: A single (divorced) mother, 4 kids (3-12 years), working full-time and making in theory $42 000/year. After taxes that comes down to $2000 cash per month. In order for her to be able to work her two youngest kids go to a day-care-center. Wham! $1000 per month (hiring a baby-sitter would amount to even more). Her apartment costs $800/month excluding utilities. That leaves $200 (+ $800 she gets in child-support) per month for _five_ people to live on (clothes, food, utilities, school-books, gas for the car, etc.etc.) One thousand dollars per month for five people!! And that in New York City! She is not entitled to any support such as free school-meals for the kids etc., because she "makes too much money" (_before_ taxes, of course!) What efforts has she made to make "herself more marketable"? She has been working ever since the age of 16, went 8 years to College (paid by herself and paying rent at the same time) and now has a Masters Degree in teaching. What has it brought her? Bill-collectors calling every day! She made a calculation and (confirming your statement) came to the conclusion, that she indeed would have _more_ money by not working at all and simply going on welfare. However, that is not a choice she wants to make. Is she to be called "stupid" and "selfish" because she's poor despite her efforts??? I don't think so. She, btw., is not the only person I know struggeling in this manner from one month into the next, barely being able to even catch up on bills. Neither does she have a free choice of employers. There is only one board of education in the City. Changing for a private school would come with (at least a temporary) pay-cut, that she obviously can't afford. Therefore: Since she isn't the only person I can think of, who is in such a position, the argument formerly known as "If 'ya don't like the company-policy [employing GAK/CAK] just leave and work for somebody else" may now be called: "Ad Acta". Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ ... Don't you hate it when the pessimists are right all the time? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBNFJRbDltEBIEF0MBAQFAGgf+PoTI/+900uSojxfC/xKFPsEnco5fp+df Etn4uJ23l9ZB7QczEuP96JMo+5vmFXc9Tabh5nMkNCRrA3QaAwxFh2+Boc8RvzAv SBLbjeqnCkvca1EgfOO+eZKv/YcRAZ47JH/w6/g/ggSx3vyM9quFeOqGzljG21au JdjFhtcdvWP2R79ldGnjswjjuT8MntSGwfx+wiKVQtt6YcK81/OKCBFMaZ8o7JTr gzYRzv6y+622Z97rUItmdEwQtDqq8k9wtRfmV1xPloqAHJ65VcJ3HI1LoItTmase oEWPiy6NBIeyN+Nbn+aK/egOalOHev8nX/LqTPxN3TawmxnESldEsg== =u2Q5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Re: Saving money
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > At 10:00 PM -0700 10/24/97, harka(a)nycmetro.com wrote: > While I am glad for your achievements, you have not addressed my > point: all this doesn't apply to the larger mass of people. -=> Quoting In:tcmay@got.net to Harka <=- In> As I recall your point, it was that most people are a few weeks away In> from running out of money and hence cannot change jobs readily. I was In> saying that a small amount of self-discipline and sacrifice can quite In> easily translate into having a few _months'_ worth of savings. That may indeed work for some people, but the argument of "self-discipline and sacrifice" usually goes overboard once people _other than yourself_ are severely affected by that. "Sorry hun, you can't have a new winter-coat. Mommy has to save enough money so that she can choose the people she works for. And no...no christmas this year either". In> If they won't make these spending tradeoffs and have not even In> a buffer sufficient to carry them through a month or two or In> three, I say screw them. How about you adopting a person/family of your choice instead and providing them with enough startup-money, so that they can at least make an realistic effort to work towards a position of becoming financially independent themselves? :) In> I won't support restrictions on what a company may do, when In> perfectly legal, Neither do I. In> just because Joe Sixpack spent his paycheck on beer or on his two daughters... In> Or because Rawandala Brown spent her money on crack or supporting her sick mother instead. Your repeating of government-propaganda about the "abuse of the welfare-system" etc. doesn't really cut it as an argument in a discussion about the realism of having total financial independence and the freedom of choices, that comes with it. In> The Mormons teach self-reliance, and savings. So do other In> religions and belief systems. Many of them urge their In> followers to have money put aside for just these kinds of In> situations. While I am not a Mormon or whatever, I do believe in self-reliance myself. But to argue, that everybody already _is_ self-reliant to the degree of being able to freely choose your employer at any time is factually incorrect. And that was the beginning of this discussion. [Grasshopper stuff deleted] In> Don't you mean, in your world view: In> If success is outlawed, only failures will succeed. You don't have to start twisting my signature-file and implying things, that were never written by anybody but your projections. :) In> (I urge you to think about how your criticisms of the free In> market fit this aphorism.) I suggest in return you reconsidering the myth, that a free market means equal opportunities and thus quick self-reliance for everybody. Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ ... Freedom is not a circumstance in life, it's a State of Mind! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBNFHX2jltEBIEF0MBAQFftAf/Q4bWgn1DJSz8THyW2VwpvfqXu0Df8uol 4+Kqdg8RRsiKeFiUCXG0h/Ab2IZJmYjYvj4ycI5+VqCReCd5YROckTLqih1K4tc4 t0ZnCwGMkwQF5pJ9rizEQnooo2NhLjW1Nj5zMTfHxYeSUtBUNFabd54Szgl485RC CWTRnBDJJCHhdxcvBl2xy+RWbviJ0+DbCVnt/28YN/4cH/YQKQn05dSLVGP4dOUW SZ4VrRqaD+mU/rmFV8oDNfkxSxwx4s4y1yG0WfSBE2XCQea3uzm9oR2ULFwo6vQD iv0VBBM9x7V4Cl9fDBmi36BXDlZDweJtgUDzGolZq4FAcWQRUzxz4A== =uJPQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Re: Saving money
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Self-reliance and socialism are diversions confected by capitalism to conceal its evils," some poor bastard finally understood, muttered to nobody and died. Nearly all governments are socialist to some degree in that they provide services (bribes) that other social structures do not; even the vilest must do so to fend off the hordes, rebels and revolutionists, or go broke funding the military, guards, spies and police, as most eventually do like the wealthy being sucked empty by their lawyers, bankers, families and lovers. Indeed, the most fervent proponents of coercive force are those who have the greatest wealth to protect against the folks trying to get it by all possible means. "More cops, more laws, more education in obedience, more loyalty oaths and prenupital 'surely you're joking's." However, even those of great wealth know that mere coercive power is not enough, that you've got to employ religion, education, culture and social pressure to induce acceptance that some have it and some don't, and screw those who don't -- keep the Armalite handy. Borrowing from the Catholic Church, John Calvin tweaked this wealth-hoarding philosophy to a high-definition blind faith in predestination: one is born to have it and too bad about the others -- which relieves those who got it by luck and crime (misnamed self-reliant hard work and careful planning) and can't quite find solace in their own self-deception, can't quite believe their protectors are trustworthy. Calvinist voodoo in updated guises has been for a couple of centuries the fundamentalist faith of the newly wealthy of the industrial (and now electronic) culture, and economic soothsayers know how to keep the grants, lecture fees and book profits coming by peddling all sorts of new versions especially tailored to fit semi-ignorant, fearful souls unsure how to capitalize on their capital, and terrified that it will evaporate just as inexplicably as it rained down on the very spot they happened to be at while all around them folks were dying of drought. None of this applies to the good hearts on this list, who are amazingly generous of their time to contribute wit and wisdom and frank admission that what else can one do except joke about god's folly, endure the drought and pray that the rains come and shit storms don't. As now in southeast Asia. What an amazing RICO op is Wall Street, now World Street, comparable to RICO government, now world gov, composed of the same Bosses and Pols working hand in hand to smirk, smirk blame the other, both knowing that self-reliance and socialism are for clueless fools unable to grasp the wonders of highly organized theft to avoid labor (and taxes) altogether, that coercive-capitalist-gov self-delusion unable to stanch the endlessly increasing cost of defending security threats. Now, I have to confess that stock market plunges lift my spirits wonderfully. Without that I have only the WSJ's thigh-slapping comedies of financial vainglory and ruin. And aoccasional upbeat homilies here about how to get ahead -- none believable of the jokemaster authors. Tim, Adam, Good Humorers.

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Administration to revive vetoed projects [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Administration Will Help Revive Some Vetoed Projects > > Aides put the blame on Defense Department for line-item veto mistakes > > line item > > WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, Oct. 24) -- The Clinton Administration is > looking for ways to restore funding for a number of military projects > which, aides say, the president mistakenly vetoed. > > In a letter to Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Ted Stevens > (R-Alaska), White House budget chief Franklin Raines blamed the > Defense Department for providing faulty data, which he said led to the > vetoes. > > Clinton, wielding his new line-item veto power that allows the > president to strike individual items from larger spending bills, > vetoed 38 military projects from this year's defense funding bill on > Oct. 14. raines > > Congressional leaders have said despite the administration's mea > culpa, they are not about to try to revive the spending projects for a > veto-override vote during an election year. > > But Raines told Stevens, "We are committed to working with Congress to > restore funding for those projects that were canceled as a result of > inaccuracies in the data provided by the Department of Defense." > > How? Three possibilities have been floated: One would shift surplus > funds from the Defense Department's existing budget; another would > include the money in a supplemental spending bill next year; a third > would insert the items in a so-called "bill of disapproval." > > Stevens told reporters the White House had expressed willingness to > revive 14 projects, though he put the number of mistakenly vetoed > projects at 28. > > "Maybe even the White House is educable," the Alaskan muttered to > reporters after a hearing Thursday on Capitol Hill.

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Bernstein oral argument set for December 8
by Cindy Cohn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi all, The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has set the specific date and time for the oral argument. It will be on Monday December 8, 1997 on the 1:30 p.m. calendar. It will be held in Courtroom 1. The 9th Circuit is located at 95 Seventh Street in San Francisco. There are 5 cases scheduled for the yet-unknown panel. The first 3 are limited to 10 min oral arg per side. The other two (us included) get 20 min per side. Cases are generally heard in order so as it stands we would be last. Cindy ************************ Cindy A. Cohn McGlashan & Sarrail, P. C. 177 Bovet Road, 6th Floor San Mateo, CA 94402 (415) 341-2585 (tel) (415)341-1395 (fax) Cindy(a)McGlashan.com http://www.McGlashan.com

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in celebration of informational "vandalism"
by Zooko Journeyman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forgeries motivate people to adopt digital signature technology! Spam motivates people to develop better filtering techniques! Cracks motivate people to adopt secure systems and to back-up their important data! Mailbombs and SYN floods motivate people to acquire denial-of-service-attack-resistant services! Trolling a la D.M.Vulis separates the tough and realistic from the fragile psyche and nascent censor! In the world of physical interaction, attacks or acts of vandalism are the components of evolutionarily stable (more or less) strategies of extortion and oppression. But in the world of information exchange, no such strategy is evolutionarily stable, and each attack is best regarded as an opportunity to up your tech and improve your capabilities while simultaneously defending against further attacks. :-) Z

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Re: Office of the Secretary of Defense vs the First Amendment (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:20:55 +0200 (MET DST) > Subject: Re: Office of the Secretary of Defense vs the First Amendment > From: nobody(a)REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > Someone is vastly over-reacting. I read this letter as a polite request > to do what they think is the "right thing" along with some reasons > intended to gently persuade you that this is a morally correct choice. > > There is no threat. No hint of compulsion. It is IMHO utterly legal and > appropriate. > > Just as it would be utterly legal to comply with or ignore this > letter. (Appropriateness we could debate...) > > No foul. > > A. Michael Froomkin +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) > Associate Professor of Law remailed to foil spam > U. Miami School of Law froomkin =A=T= law.miami.edu > P.O. Box 248087 http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/ > Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA It's quite warm here Lawyers = bottem feeding scum suckers They're the ones who get us in these kinds of messes. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Judge orders man to obtain permission to file suits [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > JUDGE CLAMPS DOWN ON FLORIDA MAN FOR FILING TOO MANY LAWSUITS > > AP > 25-OCT-97 > > > MIAMI (AP) Enough is enough. Chief U.S. District Judge Edward Davis > said he is tired of reading "rambling, incomprehensible diatribes" > directed at everyone from Elizabeth Dole to William Rehnquist. > > So Davis has ordered Robert Parker of Deerfield Beach to get his > written permission before filing any more lawsuits. Parker has filed > at least 85 federal suits in 10 years. > > In dismissing the latest batch of 11 suits, Davis said Parker has > argued that "three presidents, the chief justice of the Supreme Court, > the CIA, the FBI, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, every judge and > magistrate in this district, as well as numerous executives of the > American Red Cross and related entities engaged in a massive civil and > criminal conspiracy to deprive Parker of employment, his marriage, > access to the federal courts and, indeed, his very life." > > Parker's displeasure apparently stems from his five-year employment > with the Red Cross until 1972, and an executive's alleged remark to > his next employer that he was fired for stealing. > > "The bottom line is that this district has expended enough of its > scarce resources administering the same complaint from Parker," Davis > wrote Thursday. > > Parker's home telephone number is not listed and he could not be > reached for comment.

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Compuserve going after corporate customers [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > COMPUSERVE SETS ITS SIGHTS ON CORPORATE INTERNET USERS > > InfoWorld > 25-OCT-97 > By Rebecca Sykes > > > > CompuServe last week announced an online product targeted at business > Internet users. > > The offering, called C from CompuServe, will combine CompuServe's > features, such as its forums, in new ways to appeal to Internet-savvy > business users who require different functions from the Web than > consumers, according to Bob Kington, executive producer of CSi, the > company's online service. > > The Internet "is great for surfers; it's not good for busy business > people," Kington said. Business people "want to get on, get their > information, and get off [of the Internet]." > > C for CompuServe will assist them in doing so by packaging > CompuServe's assets in new ways. Instead of following the model of > CSi, the company's current online offering that gives paying > subscribers full access to all forums and other CompuServe resources, > C will offer access on three levels. > > * The Guest level will provide free, read-only access to CompuServe's > 500 forums to all Web users. Guest-level users also will have access > to forums' reciprocal links to thousands of Web sites selected for > their relevance to the forums' topics. > > * The Member level will operate on a pay-per-transaction basis to > provide access to hundreds of research databases. Users enter their > credit-card information online once and then are charged small amounts > for functions they perform. > > * The Subscriber level will offer three options. One will feature full > interactive access to forums, including posting and receiving > messages, and will cost less than $10 per month. The other two > options, which will each be priced quite a bit lower, are a > subscription to integrated e-mail, voice mail, fax, and pager services > and a subscription to Computing Pro, a value-added service for > computing professionals. > > The service, free to current CSi users, will be available by year's > end. > > Asked whether CompuServe was acting prematurely given the impending > acquisition by America Online of its online assets, Steve Conway, > CompuServe vice president of corporate communications, said it was > just moving ahead with plans it had before AOL made its bid. > > CompuServe Inc., in Columbus, Ohio, can be reached at (614) 457-8600. > America Online Inc., in Dulles, Va., can be reached at (703) 448-8700. > > > Rebecca Sykes is a Boston correspondent for the IDG News Service, an > InfoWorld affiliate. > > Article Dated 24-OCT-97 > > COPYRIGHT 1997 InfoWorld Publishing Company

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Elliptic Curves
by semprini＠theschool.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Can anyone point me to some good documentation on elliptic curves as applies to cryptography? I'm interested in finding some good documentation from which I would be able to learn how to use elliptic curves in creating a public/private key system. I have mainly been studying symmetric systems and would like to move on to asymmetric systems. Any help would be appreciated. --Dylan

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Re: Saving money
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Harka wrote: >Do you really expect single mothers with 3 kids to have the time to >do it to the degree of being able to _freely choose_ their >employers?? Or even Joe Average, who just came out of College and has >$100 000 school-loan-debt? Certainly there are people who will give up their privacy rights for money. Some of them will not perceive it as a problem. Some will have put themselves into a bad situation where the money is worth more than their privacy. In almost all cases their problems do not exist outside their minds. The mother with 3 children did not get into that situation by accident. Certain choices and actions were taken that put her into that "bad" situation. ("Bad" in quotes because if one really really wants to have children, the situation may be preferable to the alternative.) The kid who borrows $100,000 and can't find a good job did not receive good advice. It is terribly important to recognize when people are in situations of their own creation if we wish to advise people in ways to avoid such situations or avoid them ourselves. >While I am glad for your achievements, you have not addressed my >point: all this doesn't apply to the larger mass of people. I completely disagree with this. Read "Your Money or Your Life" by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin. This book describes a method which anybody can use to make good decisions in managing their life. The purpose of the book is to teach ordinary people how to become independently wealthy. There are few people who would not benefit from this method and who are incapable of applying it. >You were fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right >time...one of the founding-members of a company in an industry, that >pays way more than average and thus brought you into the position, >that you're in now. Great...more power to you and I encourage >everybody to try the same. You should also look at "The Millionaire Next Door" by Thomas J. Stanley and William D. Danko. This is a study of millionaires in the United States. To quote from "Money" magazine: "To learn what today's millionaires have in common and how they accumulated their wealth, Stanley and Danko sent questionnaires to affluent Americans and conducted focus-group interviews. They learned that about two-thirds of those millionaires who still work are self-employed - versus one in ten for all Americans. The types of businesses they own tend to be mundane, such as welding and dry cleaning. The overwhelming majority aren't trust-fund babies; eight out of ten accumulated their riches themselves. Most are extremely frugal. Although their average net worth is $3.7 million, they generally live so modestly that even their neighbors don't have a clue about their wealth." The article has these five bullet points to recommend: "1. Live below your means. 2. Launch a savings and investing plan. 3. Take on debt sparingly. 4. Pay as little as possible to Uncle Sam. 5. Start your own business." Standard Ben Franklin stuff, but it works. >But if the available work-force exceeds the demand for it, such jobs >wouldn't pay nearly as much as they do right now. Hence, achieving >financial independence to the point of freely choosing employers >would become much harder again. Actually, it doesn't cost much to change employers. All you have to do is find an employer who will hire you. Mostly this is a question of time and effort. >But this is the reality for MOST people (outside of the >elite-industries) already! Especially if they start out with >student-loan-debts amounting to several ten thousands of dollars. >Add a family/kids to that and you tell me how easy a task it will be >to quickly become independently wealthy. (Some people will be able >to pull it off somehow, most people won't - - despite their wishes to >the contrary. Should they make their best effort? Absolutely! Will >everybody succeed? Absolutely not.) I agree most people will probably not pull it off, but that's too bad. The reason they won't pull it off is that they won't make their best effort. Sure, you can dig up people who appear to have really tried and then failed anyway, but they are rare. You can easily see that most poor people are not making their best effort by studying how much money they spend on alcohol, tobacco, or other recreational substances. You can also study TV watching habits. Poor people watch a lot of TV instead of making themselves useful. >The truth is, that there are many people outside of Cypherpunks, who >get barely through life _despite_ making efforts. They may get enough >salary in their 9-5 job to maintain themselves to a degree, but not >nearly enough to have the complete freedom, that is the issue >here. And to say, "they get what they deserve" (if they don't have >the abundance of dollars/freedom) is rather narrowminded and >out-of-touch with most people's reality. Gee, I don't know about that. When I was in school there was tremendous peer pressure to not study, to not get good grades, to not program, to not study electronics, to not master calculus, etc. etc. etc. If those people end up poor, I have no hesitation in saying they deserve it - at the very least! >That may indeed work for some people, but the argument of >"self-discipline and sacrifice" usually goes overboard once people >_other than yourself_ are severely affected by that. "Sorry hun, you >can't have a new winter-coat. Mommy has to save enough money so that >she can choose the people she works for. And no...no christmas this >year either". I think I hear violins! ;-) In practice, these are very seldom the choices that are being made. Winter coats are available second hand for almost nothing. When I was a kid my parents made many of our presents by hand to save money. Christmas need not be expensive, and it's not clear that it is improved in any meaningful way by spending lots of money. People are perfectly capable of living economically and making good decisions, even when their children are involved. (In> is Tim May, quoted by Harka.) > In> If they won't make these spending tradeoffs and have not even a > In> buffer sufficient to carry them through a month or two or three, > In> I say screw them. >How about you adopting a person/family of your choice instead and >providing them with enough startup-money, so that they can at least >make an realistic effort to work towards a position of becoming >financially independent themselves? :) Uh, excuse me, but I didn't see Tim volunteering for Santa Claus duty. Why should he help out people who will, in all probability, fail to take his advice, squander any money he gives them, and resent him for his efforts? For that matter, why should he help out people who will be eternally grateful if he doesn't value that gratitude? And the claim that all that is needed is a little startup money is a standard lame excuse that has probably been used for millenia. Making excuses is not how the job gets done. >I suggest in return you reconsidering the myth, that a free market >means equal opportunities and thus quick self-reliance for everybody. The term "equal opportunities" is a curious one. A free market does mean that everybody has the equal opportunity to make agreements with each other. But, clearly some people will have more success making these agreements for reasons which are not under their control. Somebody might have parents who introduce them to the right people and show them the ropes, for instance. This is one reason why the free market does not eliminate the formation of elites. But, so what? Are we really going to claim that people shouldn't help their children to succeed? In the sense that I think you mean the term, "equal opportunities" are exceedingly undesirable. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNFIxl5aWtjSmRH/5AQFjQAf9GlFXsJQ1Iyii7Ch26a38Xi80Q1QMcbq4 rJPVzncFntQjfau99j6jUiNdsjk2Zr8XhLZtyP95yQX3VcaAmsyY7imXImWyH1uU r2OezEg5S9+e/mi7knTsOfzlYOBhKklMTprKo2K539g05B9xJCOqb8S9CyX9/Ie6 5ZH2gss2jANWM6cWsCmZ0nRtG3Rc1fKXJDl5DgsdceCzkVRGms6r7WMzvwUxTTFC wlaWUwjyUcnEK+cqnvsq4rBW/Bh4dvCwzUnEHbyckukO5wOsYxDFb9kuWaIufMJh ukvif/SP9SGzLsqpJ/Iv2pqdRL7B/C4DP+gFP1iODkaER0a7/wUR9A== =9Kt3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Office of the Secretary of Defense vs the First Amendment (fwd)
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim choate wrote: >Lawyers = bottem feeding scum suckers > >They're the ones who get us in these kinds of messes. You may be right for all others, and you may be kidding, but in the case (!) of world-beloved Michael Froomkin, he's the sweetest, kindest, most caring, funniest lawyer professor qua human on the orb, in the dying galaxy, ever. Visit his web page for irrefutable confirmation that he is the real thing in earthbound angels of legal humor. http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/ Best of all, he has no e-mail address. [This is a pitifully low-bartered bar-prohibited ad]

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Re: PGP Employee on MKR
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Harka wrote: >Implying, that the freedom of an (average) person does not get >infringed by (privacy-intrusive) policies "because they can always >choose a different company" is IMHO plainly incorrect and out of >day-to-day reality for most people. (Also note, that I am not saying >companies don't have the right to have such policies) It sounds like everybody is in agreement, then. Companies have the right to ask their employees to give up some privacy, time, and effort. You are arguing that many employees will opt to give up their privacy rights because that choice is preferable to the others they perceive. Because there is a large number of such people, it is likely that large numbers of people will become accustomed to giving up their privacy and will be sympathetic when other people are forced to give up their privacy. Where there may be some disagreement is whether the solution is to pass even more laws that restrict what choices people may make or to pursue other solutions. Given that the governments of the world are the source of nearly all privacy problems, it seems unlikely that an appeal to government is likely to be productive. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNFIjYJaWtjSmRH/5AQHm7gf+NswjBZyddLueZ66LbSw3YA2xcf5U8PLz v8dZaB2RjFqI7GCS8xXKY+fOg7OQ31sy6OR7yOOpHRoeAB5OU1vqR9lAKQwUX26C pp+ROMKT+TRCj1uLaCdSqgCq8I4Hg8TFWHxuVM81si8sgZGDMTD72EmXY32Av9na 8CtQu+vFx7OZiKZeoDl30TkoR3O/bnb9X4KIBNm5TTn2Fld6HL3c/iy1tSGuETnS zLWSUvxqAm761wv/W73A9GAlQpOd+4DiT/rav0HIUcDrhGpGWeEhDgs5l9w6HQ9w U2GbdiWFb74lrGS0pvPAvzfp7cZeWvODUKD/2Zk57YThhlQjIWuvFQ== =Ghfd -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Forwarded mail...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 21:15:11 +0200 (MET DST) > From: nobody(a)REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > Subject: Re: PGP Employee on MKR > It sounds like everybody is in agreement, then. Companies have the > right to ask their employees to give up some privacy, time, and > effort. > Given that the governments of the world are the source of nearly all > privacy problems, it seems unlikely that an appeal to government is > likely to be productive. > > Monty Cantsin > Editor in Chief > Smile Magazine Monty, without a doubt that is the stupidest thing you have ever said on this list. If a company makes your employment contingent on something you don't like, change jobs. DON'T need laws, don't want laws that get involved in this. This is *STRICTLY* a civil contract issue between the two parties, PERIOD. Why is it that so many people start discussions regarding social issues and then meander into government issues, or visa versa, without ANY recognition of their schizophrenia? Personaly, I blame it on spin doctors like yourself. At least I have the satisfaction knowing that in no way am I contributing to putting food on your table, making your car payments, or paying off your drug dealer... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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17 Dec '03

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Re: poverty traps (Re: Sa (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: harka(a)nycmetro.com > Date: 25 Oct 1997 16:09:58 EDT > Subject: Re: poverty traps (Re: Sa > Although my statement was deliberately somewhat exaggerated, it is > not that far from reality for quite a few people I know. > > A real-life example: > Is she to be called "stupid" and "selfish" because she's poor > despite her efforts??? > > I don't think so. She, btw., is not the only person I know > struggeling in this manner from one month into the next, barely > being able to even catch up on bills. I know quite few people in that sort of situation. > Neither does she have a free choice of employers. There is only one > board of education in the City. Changing for a private school would > come with (at least a temporary) pay-cut, that she obviously can't > afford. I must disagree there. She has the qualifications to obtain employment in may corporations and such. As a matter of fact, unless she happens to be inequivicaly wedded to live in her current abode have her send me her resume. I will be quite happy to submit it to the H/R department at Tivoli (an IBM company I admit) for a position in our training department (last time I checked they had like 90 positions they wanted to fill globaly). I can guarantee the cost of living is somewhat lower than NY here in Texas and her pay will most likely be higher than current. There is also the opportunity for global travel if she is interested and were to get hired. Sending out resumes is cheap, about $.40 a company. > Therefore: > > Since she isn't the only person I can think of, who is in such a > position, the argument formerly known as "If 'ya don't like the > company-policy [employing GAK/CAK] just leave and work for > somebody else" may now be called: "Ad Acta". Obviously this is open to alternate interpretation depending upon to what lengths the party is willing to go to change their life. Skills are what you sell not a particular job title or duty set. Complacency and despondancy can be opportunity killers. [I have attached my 'long' .sig both to include the Tivoli address and to aggravate those who bitch about the length of my 'short' .sig] "Reality is observer dependant" \ \ \\///// | | (.) (.) ===========================oOO==(_)==OOo========================== James Choate Tivoli Systems, Inc. The Armadillo Group Senior Engineer SOHO - Internet - Technology 9442 Capitol of Texas Highway North 608 E. 48th. Suite 500 Austin, TX 78751 Austin, TX 78759 Email: jchoate(a)tivoli.com Email: ravage(a)ssz.com Phone: 512-436-8893 Phone: 512-451-7087 Fax: 512-345-2784 Fax: n/a WWW: www.tivoli.com WWW: www.ssz.com Modem: n/a Modem: 512-451-7009 Pager: n/a Pager: n/a Cellular: n/a Cellular: n/a =================================================================== Political ideal: The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law..." & What happened to the 9th & 10th Amendments? Philosophy: Pantheism - the belief that everything is divine, that God is not seperate but totaly identified with the cosmos, and that God does not possess personality or transcendence. Favorite Cartoon - Danger Mouse & Mighty Mouse (the original) =================================================================== The end of our exploring will be to arrive at where we started, and to know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot =================================================================== Adopt, adapt, improvise! Anonymous =================================================================== For a succesful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled. Richard Feynman =================================================================== Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question. Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural Addr =================================================================== The Chinese icon for crisis consists of the icons for danger and opportunity. An observation by J. Choate =================================================================== You are What you do When it counts The Masao

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Orthogonality and Disaster Recovery
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

One of the themes of modern computing I strongly support is that of "orthogonality," or clean functionality. A browser should not also try to be a money management program. A word processor should not also try to be an accounting program. Failure to observe this rule of thumb has led to spreadsheets which can run MPEG movies in spreadsheet cells (I'm not kidding), and to Web browsers which take 20 MB of free memory to run reliably because they also contain mediocre news readers, mediocre mailers, and lots of bloatware cruft. The move toward modular decomposition is supported in functional and object-oriented languages (like Java and C++) and in modern operating systems. Much of the strenght of Unix has obviously come from the philosophy that a function or utility should do some small set of things well and cleanly, with chaining of these clean tools to accomplish more complicated tasks. A crypto program like PGP is intended to encrypt messages between a sender and a recipient, or to provide authentication through signatures, or to encrypt files on a storage medium. These are the classic, well-documented, oft-discussed functions of crypto. Look in textbooks under "crypto" and there won't be much talk of how to supply MIS with emergency backdoors, or ways to monitor employees. If properly modularized and orthogonalized (so to speak), such crypto programs can then be used as building blocks for other tasks, like remailers, data havens, and so on. But there is a growing tendency, as seen in the bloatware examples of browsers and spreadsheets mentioned above, to throw in all kinds of "wish list" and "wouldn't it be nice" stuff. PGP is headed for bloatware. ("It's not just a crypto program, it's also a tax preparation and disaster planning program!") I'm quite certain that the Security and MIS directors at various companies asked PGP, Inc. to include message recovery features. Not so much to handle the very rare (almost nonexistent) cases where a piece of mail sent at some time in the past has to be recovered because Alice was hit by a truck, or similiar unlikely events (*), but because Security and MIS folks would like the option of "monitoring" e-mail traffic. (* I have heard no plausible scenarios under which transient communications, which are presumably stored in the form composed (plaintext) on the sender's machine or in the for received and read (also in plaintext) on the receiver's machine, need to be recovered from the *transit* state. We know why the FBI wants access to communications keys--because access to the transit state is what they get when they wiretap or sniff a communications line--but there is no plausbile explanation of why a company would not simply ask Alice for the plaintext, or ask Bob if for some reason Alice is unavailable. The idea someone floated, that he needs to go in and decrypt his employee's mail in emergencies is far-fetched.) But are such bloatware crypto programs even good for disaster recovery? I say they are not. I say e-mail will be a tiny, tiny portion of the recovery strategy if Alice gets hit by a truck, for example. Far more important will be recovery of her hard disk and related files. (No, I am _not_ proposing anything be added to PGP to deal with this disaster planning. Nor am I proposing that PGP enforce plaintext storage, or anything else for that matter. These are all matters _orthogonal_ to the basic function of a crypto program, and a crypto program cannot enforce crypto hygiene any more than a spreadsheet can enforce good tax planning hygiene.) I am also not terribly interested in convoluted, byzantine schemes for building "CDR" and such into crypto programs, as some are proposing. Again, this is trying to make a crypto program into a disaster preparation product, and trying to (partly) solve backup and disaster problems best solved in other ways. Not something PGP should worry about (either the program or the company). "What if Alice forgets her key?" (Loses her private key, forgets her passphrase, whatever.) A very real concern. A concern I have myself. I won't say how I deal with it, for security reasons, but it ain't something I expect PGP, Inc. to solve _for_ me. Nor is my solution, whatever it is, a step toward GAKking of keys, or any kind of building of an infrastructure for surveillance. In fact, this was my point a while back about how a diversity of approaches to disaster planning, to key insurance measures, makes the imposition of mandatory key escrow or Government Message Recovery (GMR) very difficult. The very chaos helps. "Let a thousand flowers bloom." And it turns out that the "what if Alice forgets her key?" scenario is very poorly dealt with by PGP 5.5 (unless the corporation actually _does_ keeps a copy of the private key generated for or by Alice...something supporters of CMR says is not the case. Whether it _can_ or _will_ be the case is another issue.) So, disaster planning, for dealing with crashed disks, dead employees, malicious employees (who, for example, encrypt their disks and then leave the company), and general failures to backup work product, etc., these examples of disaster planning issues are NOT dealt with in any important way by PGP 5.5. Nor should any communications security program try to be this kind program. Keep it simple, stupid. This kind of bloatware is a fig leaf for security, and very probably introduces major new security flaws. (I've discussed at length the issues of just who will be reading the CMR messages. It's very unlikely such CMR messages will simply be archived away for that rare day when someone's old messages need to be "recovered" for the reasons usually given...in fact, as I have been arguing, I can't imagine companies even bothering to get some transient piece of e-mail sent 2 years earlier by Alice to Bob. They don't archive phone calls, and these are every bit as likely to be "critical" in some sense as old e-mail messages are.) As this relates to PGP, it just ain't their problem to try to answer the demands of control freaks in corporate MIS departments that backdoors be built into crypto products. (Call it snoopware, call it surveillance software, call it CMR. But what it really is a backdoor built into a crypto system. And one thing we know from several decades of crypto work is that backdoors are holes in security. Given that these backdoors apparently have little use in any real disaster situations, they represent a serious dilution of security for little or nothing gained.) PGP, Inc. should stick to its core business, and not try to build in snoopware backdoors for control freak MIS managers. If it is claimed that corporate America is demanding these backdoors, our industry and community then faces a major educational battle. If this battle is lost, as it may already be, then the same reasons for corporations to insist on "emergency access" (which of course won't be very "emergency" oriented, as actually used in corporations) will be seen by many to apply to government as well. "What have you got to hide?" Keep it simple, stupid. That makes for efficiency, functionality, and easier product development. And it doesn't build the case for government to later demand message recovery. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

3 2

Orthogonality and Disaster Recovery (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 13:52:05 -0700 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Orthogonality and Disaster Recovery > One of the themes of modern computing I strongly support is that of > "orthogonality," or clean functionality. Any idea how a term meaning 'at right angles' came to hold all the various interpretations it now does?... I see this word in a lot of my reading and it almost never implies any sort of 'indipendent multi-variant reference system'. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Use of an 'air freshener' in commission of a crime...
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* In June, a Scripps Howard News Service reporter examined Consumer Product Safety Commission records recently made public and found that 1,823 serious injuries caused by "electronic air-fresheners" had been reported to the agency. Though the records were short on details, they included 50 cases of amputation, 46 burns, 48 scaldings, 68 poisonings, 56 "foreign-body" penetrations, and 69 "drownings." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To read these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months, go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html (That site contains no graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio. Just text. Deal with it.)

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Great Balls of Fire!
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* In April in Port Washington, Wis., Kevin Gillson, 18, was convicted of sexual assault of a child when his 15-year-old girlfriend became pregnant, despite the fact that the couple were attending parenting classes together and that Gillson said they planned to marry. Upon conviction, Gillson was barred from being around any non-adults, including the mother of his child. And Richard A. Duke Jr., 22, was jailed for 30 days in May in St. Mary's County, Md., for having sex with the 15-year-old girl whom he had married in the interim between arrest and conviction. Nonetheless, a judge ordered Duke, thus as a sex offender, to stay away from the girl, even though she is his wife.

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Shit happened...
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* The Michigan Court of Appeals in April ruled, on a technicality, in favor of a prison inmate who had tossed a cup of liquified feces in the face of a guard. Alphonso Gaines, 34, already serving time for assault, could not be punished further, said the court, because the prosecutors forgot to prove that Gaines was "lawfully" incarcerated in the Ionia facility at the time he threw the feces. Prosecutor Gail Hitchcock was incensed: "Did they think we were charging someone who had sneaked into prison?" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To read these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months, go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html (That site contains no graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio. Just text. Deal with it.)

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Terry Nichols gets new court-appointed lawyer...
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* Defense lawyer Phillip Robertson, intending to make a dramatic point in front of the jury at his client's robbery trial in Dallas, Tex., in June, pointed the 9mm pistol used in the crime toward the jury box, causing two jurors to fling their arms in front of their faces and others to gasp audibly. Though Robertson was arguing that his client should be sentenced only to probation, the horrified jury gave him 13 years.

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Stuff Your Momma Never Told You...
by News of the Normal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

CLOSET STATISTICS DON'T LIE *Statistics International reports that since gays have come out of the closet, snap counts in football have increased an average of 40% in length (up to 70% when either the center or quarterback is named 'Bruce'.) This figure increases astronomically in College football, in cases where the center is a freshman and the quarterback is a senior who is a member of NAMBLA. (North American Man-Boy Love Association) HAS ANYBODY SEEN MY BOOTSRAPS...??? *Recent revelations revolving 'round revisionist recorrections indicate that Horatio Alger died in poverty after the S&L where his funds were deposited collapsed, the head of his pension fund was indicted, his former employer could no longer afford to support his 'lifetime' health insurance benefits, and Chelsea Clinton robbed him to buy crack cocaine as part of her homework for a Stanford 'History of Ebonics' class. IT'S A TOUGH WAY TO MAKE A LIVING *NEWS OF THE WEIRD, a nationally syndicated newspaper column founded in 1988, and distributed by Universal Press Syndicate has finally run its course, and will be discontinued in the near future. A disappointed Chuck Shepherd told reporters, "I could see that the end was coming when President Reagan's statement that 'trees cause more pollution than automobiles' became mainstream news." Shepherd went on to say, "I can no longer compete with the regular news when citizens are getting toilet plungers stuck up their ass every day, parabolically speaking. I've heard that Clinton, Reno and Freeh are now a serious threat to the comedy industry, as well. Who is going to be foolish enough to pay for our products when they can get material of greater quality and quantity free on C-Span and the front page of the Washington Post?" AUTHENTICITY: All news stories mentioned in News of the Normal are just shit we make up (or occasionally, get from supermarket tabloids in other countries or other disreputable magazines and journals). No so-called reputable news source, and no story that was not intended to spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Disinformation) is ever the source of a News of the Normal story. News of the Normal is not copyrighted by anyone who would admit to it in public.

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Defendants adopt Freemenspeak [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > MORE DEFENDANTS ADOPT 'FREEMENSPEAK' > > Freemen in court > > It's gibberish to the judges > > October 25, 1997 > Web posted at: 6:33 p.m. EDT (2233 GMT) > > BILLINGS, Montana (AP) -- Standing scornful and defiant, the > defendants shout their cases. They are sovereign citizens, not > subject to the court! The judges are unqualified! The lawyers are > illegal! > > "To hell with you and your kangaroo court!" one defendant bellows at > his sentencing for dealing drugs. > > The bizarre claims are trademarks of the Montana Freemen, the > militant anti-government zealots who have been jailed here, awaiting > trial, since their 81-day standoff ended 16 months ago. > > But the claims are now coming from garden-variety criminals, fellow > inmates in the Yellowstone County jail. These non-Freemen are > proving to be ardent students of the convoluted legal fantasies of > the jail's most famous residents. > > They are firing their lawyers, torpedoing their own plea agreements, > writing their own legal briefs, arguing -- and losing -- their own > cases. They are making life and work difficult, and often miserable, > for those who run the court system. > > Chief public defender Sandy Selvey calls the Freemen a plague. At > least seven clients of his office have tried "Freemenspeak" in state > court; others have tried it in federal court. > > "They're contaminating our good criminals," says District Judge > Diane Barz, who tangled with the Freemen as a federal prosecutor. > > About two dozen Freemen have been among the jail's 300 inmates since > June 13, 1996, when they surrendered after an armed, 81-day standoff > with FBI agents at their isolated farm compound in the remote > outback of eastern Montana's "Big Open." Three minor figures have > pleaded guilty, but trials for the rest won't begin until next > spring. > > The host of federal charges against them include wire and bank fraud > and threatening the life of a federal judge and other public > officials. The FBI says some 800 people from around the country > attended classes at the rural stronghold, learning to issue the > worthless liens and "warrants" that the Freemen claim are legal > tender. > > People in several states have been charged, and some convicted, of > trying to use such documents, often bearing the name of Freeman > leader Leroy Schweitzer. The Dallas Morning News reported that at > least 151 people in 23 states were under investigation for Freeman > connections. > > The Freemen's legal "philosophy" is a jumble of odds and ends from > the Bible, the U.S. Constitution, the Magna Carta and the Uniform > Commercial Code, the body of federal laws that govern interstate > financial transactions. > > They dress it up in pseudo-scholarly terms and meaningless Latin > phrases and claim, in essence, they are laws unto themselves -- and > over everyone else. > > "There are some real gaps in their education, and ... I think they > are darned close to acting like the mentally ill," Barz said. > > The Freemen commonly rant, belch, challenge the federal judges and > get banished from the courtroom to watch on closed-circuit TV as > appointed lawyers try to defend them. More conventional inmates soon > started imitating them. > > Their verbose legal filings, often prepared by Freemen, are so > peculiar that District Court Clerk Jean Thompson rejects many of > them. > > Accused wife-murderer Jerry Swinney filed a 25-page "Demand for Bill > of Particulars." Adopting the Freemen's name style -- Jerry period > comma Swinney -- it opens this way: > > "Jerry., Swinney, Affiant, hereinafter at all times relevant, > Demandant, a self-realized entity, a Man upon the free soil of the > several American independent and sovereign states, ..." > > Twenty-five eye-glazing pages later, this is how it closes: > > "NOTICE. This instrument comes under, and brings into the instant > action, the doctrines of res gestae, res ipsa loquitor, tacit > procuration, prior knowledge, willful intent, as against YOU and you > and your private characters. Further affiant sayeth not." > > County Attorney Dennis Paxinos, public defender Selvey and the > judges say the biggest problem the Freemen imitators have created is > how to protect themselves from themselves. It may be a bad idea for > them to act as their own lawyer -- but it's their legal right. > > "The judges and prosecutors seem to be as concerned with protecting > these Freeman-type people as their own attorneys are," says Deputy > County Attorney Joe Coble. "The only people who seem to want to run > roughshod over these people's rights are these people themselves." > > "The real concern I have is trying to figure out if, hidden among > the rubble of rhetoric, there's any viable complaint or issue we > really should consider," says District Judge G. Todd Baugh. > > As far as the judges can recall, that hasn't happened yet. > > "It's incredibly difficult to figure out what they're trying to > say," says District Judge Russell Fagg. > > Judges usually appoint a standby lawyer, often over the defendant's > protests. > > "Standby is the worst possible situation for a defense lawyer," > Selvey said. "You have to know all the facts, all the witnesses and > what they'll testify to, all the forensic evidence, and the > authorities the guy's going to cite. > > "And then you have to stand there and watch while he goes down in > flames." > > Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This > material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or > redistributed.

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Re: Defendants adopt Freemenspeak [CNN]
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

All right, Jim, a truly uplifting thigh-slapper. All right, Freemen, go for the ranting, belching, farting lingo jumbo, it's how the law fogs who's complicit in police power ebonics.

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