December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: ALERT: PICS Rules, not OK!
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In article <67qbl6$am2(a)senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, Seth Finkelstein wrote: >In article <67ptsh$4rl$1(a)illuin.demon.co.uk>, >Richard Letts <richard(a)illuin.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>In uk.net Paul L. Allen <pla(a)sktb.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> With PICSRULES they can tell ISPs, say, that all web traffic (see >>> qualification above) must go through the ISPs proxy (some ISPs would >>> probably like to make their routers enforce that anyway for bandwidth >>> reasons) and that the proxy should use PICSRULES that the govt specify. >> >>Replace PICSRULES with 'English language specification' in the sentance >>above. > > Doesn't work, because there is no standard "English language >specification" for content restrictions on proxy servers. This "PICS >is like English" bit is getting really tiresome, if PICS were really >like English, then there would be no need to construct such a special >system in the first place! The fact that there is a need for such a >language *designed* and *optimized* for censorship should give the lie >to this comparison. Right. I must be missing something here: PICS is designed to label information under a variety of criteria. The stated reason is that we want to "protect the children and those with frail minds" from "bad" information. Of course the definition of "bad" information varies from person to person. Let's assume PICS doesn't exist. Instead there's a single flag which can go on a web page, USENET post, text file, FTP site, or whatever which denotes whether the material is "suitable for children." I go off and publish bomb-making information. Since that material is available in a high school chemistry textbook with a little synthesis on the reader's part and I don't believe in censorship of information, especially based on age, I mark it "suitable for children." How is anybody going to stop me? I've expressed my opinion. And, after all, SingleFlag isn't for censorship, so theoretically nobody can do anything about it. Of course people won't like this. Further if a bunch of people do that SingleFlag becomes completely and totally useless. The only ways to enforce it are to sue me, throw me in jail, or blacklist me from ISPs. In all three cases censorship is in effect. In the first two cases people scream to the government <Exon> "We *already* censor or rate content on the public airwaves, in computer games, on TV, and at the movies. Why not on the Internet too?" </Exon>, and that's assuming that such a law isn't in place already. So say SingleFlag doesn't exist. Instead we have MultiFlag which rates content on the basis of sexual content, violence, language, and nudity. Again, because I don't believe in censoring content, I rate my material as "no sex, no violence, no lude language, and no nudity." And again, the only way to enforce it is to sue me, throw me in jail, or blacklist me from ISPs. And, again, in all three cases I'm censored. And if all the ISPs censor USENET feeds and HTTP connections, nothing keeps me from playing all kinds of games with TCP/IP (or making my own protocol entirely) and distributing information that way. But then I suppose we have to ban that too, since after all it has no use except to "corrupt the youth of the world" and to espouse politically incorrect thoughts. Now let's say that does happen. I go off and post my pornography anonymously, or stick it on an Eternity server. Well, I guess we'd better ban those pesky anonymous remailers now, right? After all, who needs anonymity unless they have something to hide, right? "Good users are known users," we should have digital signatures required on everything (and they aren't just any digital signature -- that would defeat the purpose. We need some kind of central certification authority!), and ban those politically incorrect opinions -- after all, we have the framework, right? Posted anonymously. After all, this is politically incorrect and I wouldn't want to get on somebody's ban list, right?

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Re: cypherpunks missing from Usenet
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Clive Feather person is emphatic only real child porn is being deleted and reported to the police; he clarified that the 1800 items listed for Sep 1997 are *total* for the existence of IWF. So, it's probably going to take me several weeks to verify his claim. I back off from my claim (based on his dialog) that they are canceling mere nudity, for now. ---guy

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NRA vs. KRA
by David Miller 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From www.jya.com/cn122297.txt quoting 15 December 1997, Interactive Week: > Network Associates dropped out of the Key Recovery Alliance. But there > are plenty of major players left, even if they include some of the harshest > foes of current crypto policy. Remaining members include: > America Online Inc. > Compaq Computer Corp. > Digital Equipment Corp. > Entrust Technologies Ltd. > Frontier Technologies Corp. > Fujitsu Ltd. > IBM Corp. > Intel Corp. > NCipher Corp. > Novell Inc. > RSA Data Security Inc. > SafeNet Trusted Services Corp. > Silicon Graphics Inc. > Sun Microsystems Inc. > Trusted Information Systems Inc. Some of these players I would expect to sit at the key recovery table, but why SUN? Any of you California dudes know what's up with that? Am I right in assuming that the International Elvis marketing deal will never go through? --David Miller -- middle rival devil rim lad Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system.

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SSZ status - post BOOM... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: >From ravage(a)ssz.com Sat Dec 27 22:39:49 1997 From: Jim Choate <ravage(a)ssz.com> Message-Id: <199712280439.WAA00168(a)einstein.ssz.com> Subject: SSZ status - post BOOM... To: users(a)ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:39:48 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1315 Hi all, Well the system seems to be back up and running without any serious problems. Will continue to monitor the status... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Explosion takes down SSZ!... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: >From ravage(a)ssz.com Sat Dec 27 22:33:23 1997 From: Jim Choate <ravage(a)ssz.com> Message-Id: <199712280430.WAA00201(a)einstein.ssz.com> Subject: Explosion takes down SSZ!... To: users(a)ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:30:51 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1714 Hi all, There was a power failure in my area this evening, a power transformer blew from the sound I heard just as the power went out. After verifying the UPS would keep the system up at least 20 minutes I shut the whole thing down. The system seems to be back up at this time except for a problem with the eth1 interface. I believe this is related to a glitch and will be working on it over the next few minutes. The system may be a bit unstable because I will need to reboot at least once... Sorry for any inconvenience. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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New hi-tech dog tags use encryption?... [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > PENTAGON INTRODUCING HIGH-TECH DOG TAGS > > electronic military dog tag December 27, 1997 > Web posted at: 7:58 p.m. EST (0058 GMT) > > From Correspondent Jonathan Karl > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Through triumph and tragedy and two world wars, > the military dog tag has been an American icon for generations of > soldiers and sailors. > > Today's armed forces wear the same basic dog tag that their > great-grandparents wore. But that's about to change. > > By 1999, the 1.4 million members of the active duty military will be > issued a high-tech dog tag that contains a computer chip. CNN's > Jonathan Karl reports > icon 2 min. VXtreme video > > The old dog tags had just five lines for information, which included > spaces for name, religion and blood type. The new digital tags, > however, can contain volumes of multi-media information, including > medical histories, X-rays and cardiograms. [text deleted] > "We have to be very concerned about how we protect the information > -- in who's hands would it be, should it be encrypted, could the > encryption be broken, what would happen if it ended up in the wrong > hands," says Defense Secretary William Cohen. [text deleted] > If issues of cost and privacy can be solved, the old metal dog tags > seem certain to become just another piece of military history. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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by ForInformationCall＠1-718-363-0723 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Eureka! Mon Dec 29 '97
by eureka＠eureka.abc-web.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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10 Minute Bank of America Boycott
by info＠aidsactionleague.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

PLEASE TAKE 10 MINUTES! CALL 1-800-678-2632. TELL BANK OF AMERICA TO GET GOVERNOR WILSON TO DO MORE TO PREVENT AIDS. Call Bank of America and tell them to urge Governor Wilson to declare a Medical State of Emergency for AIDS in California. WHY A STATE OF EMERGENCY FOR AIDS? Because AIDS is a health issue and should be in the hands of the Health Department. WHY Bank of America? BofA spends half a million dollars a year lobbying. Bank Of America makes large contributions to Governor Wilson. When Bank of America speaks Governor Wilson listens. WHY CALL? If you call 1-800-678-2632 and spend ten minutes on the phone, it costs BofA approximately $2.50. BofA is paying for the call. WHY A TEN MINUTE BOYCOTT? If 5 to 10 thousand people call a day and they each spend 10 minuteds on the the phone---- the phone bill for BofA will be enough to convince the bank to help, to do something decent for society. WHAT TO SAY? "Hi, my name is _____________, I am a consumer. I am very concerned about the spread of the AIDS epidemic and the fact that Governor Wilson is doing nothing about it. I know that Bank of America spends a lot of money to influence representatives like Governor Wilson. I want BofA to tell Governor Wilson to do more to prevent AIDS. I want Bank Of America to do something decent for society." (one call only please.) PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE: Forward this E-mail to ten friends and have them e-mail ten friends...don't break the chain! Thank you, Marc Keyser President AIDS Action League ______________________________________________________________ Visit our web site: www.aidsactionleague.org e-mail: info(a)aidsactionleague.org /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove". ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

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NY Times on history of public key crypto
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

By PETER WAYNER T o the list of institutions that Tony Blair's Labor Party is shaking up, add the British Secret Service. Last week, the British government's eavesdropping organization known as the Government Communications Headquarters, or GCHQ, posted a document to its Web site describing its role in the discovery of public key cryptography. The set of algorithms, equations and arcane mathematics that make up public key cryptography are a crucial technology for preserving computer privacy in and making commerce possible on the Internet. Some hail its discovery as one of the most important accomplishments of 20th-century mathematics because it allows two people to set up a secure phone call without meeting beforehand. Without it, there would be no privacy in cyberspace. The move by the once dusty and secretive organization is clearly an attempt to recast its image as a pioneering leader of cyberspace. For the last 20 years, the public gave credit for the discovery to Martin Hellman, a professor at Stanford University, and two graduate students who worked with him at the time, Ralph Merkle and Whitfield Diffie. They started publishing their work in 1976. Three professors at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology at the time, Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir and Len Adleman soon followed with another similar approach known by their initials, RSA, which went on to become one of the dominant solutions used on the Internet. Before public key cryptography, anyone who wanted to use a secret code needed to arrange for both sides to have a copy of the key used to scramble the data, a problem that requires either trusted couriers or advance meetings. PKC, as it is sometimes known, erased this problem by making it possible for two people, or more properly their computers, to agree upon a key by performing some complicated mathematics. There is no publicly known way for an eavesdropper to pick up the key by listening in. T he new document details how three employees of the British government discovered the same approach several years earlier, but kept it a secret for reasons of national security. A spokesman for the British government's GCHQ, said that the document's release is part of a "pan-governmental drive for openness" pushed by the Labor party. The document describing the steps of invention taken by the spies was written by James Ellis, a mathematician and cryptographer who died less than a month ago. In it, Ellis describes how he suggested the existence of what he called "non-secret encryption" in 1970s. Ellis says that Clifford Cocks followed with a more practical solution in 1973 that was essentially the same thing as the algorithm published by Rivest, Shamir and Adleman. The paper also says that Malcolm Williamson discovered an algorithm in 1974 that was very similar to the work of Diffie and Hellman. They did not replicate the work done by Merkle and Hellman. In a telephone interview from his office in La Jolla, Calif., Malcolm Williamson said that he felt bad when others discovered the solution, but concluded, "I was working at the British government and that's just one of the restrictions you work under when you work for the government." Hellman said in a telephone interview that he agrees. "It must be really difficult for them to watch other people get the credit," he said. "But that's the agreement they made when they agreed to work in secret." He was also quick to point out that the secret branches of the government have the help of large budgets and classified knowledge. "Diffie, I and Merkle were working in a vacuum." he said. "If we had access to all of the classified literature of the previous 30 years, it would really be an advantage." For his part, Diffie said in a telephone interview from Cirencester, England, that he thinks that GCHQ never realized the deep importance of what the mathematicians discovered. He said that he met James Ellis several years ago and "within an hour of meeting me, Ellis said, 'You did much more with this than we did.'" Diffie also suggested that the history of ideas is hard to write because many people often find solutions to different problems only to later determine they've discovered the same thing. T he story keeps going farther back. Recently, Matt Blaze, a cryptographer employed at Bell Labs, got a copy of a memorandum from the desk of John F. Kennedy about the problem of securing nuclear weapons with launch codes. Steve Bellovin, a colleague of Blaze's at Bell Labs, said: "When I read this memo, I don't see anything that would require public key cryptography. But I think they're in the neighborhood. For so many things, the answer is the easy part. Asking the question is the hard part. I think this got them asking the questions." Historians of science will certainly spend time sorting out the various claims. David Kahn, the author of the best selling history The Codebreakers, said that he recently asked the National Security Agency to declassify some documents so he could write the proper history of public key cryptography. He said an NSA staff member told him, "I've spoken to the guys who did this, but they don't want to be interviewed now." This suggests that the NSA also may have discovered public-key systems or had a hand in exploring them. Kahn hopes that the NSA will follow in Britain's lead so an accurate history can be written. Jim Bidzos, the chief executive of RSA Data Security, the division of the publicly traded Security Dynamics that holds the patent on the RSA, said that the announcement in Britain will have no effect on the company's business. Patent law is based on the notion that the inventors trade knowledge about the invention in return for an exclusive license to practice it. In fact, it is an interesting question to wonder whether Britain could have changed the history of cyberspace by disclosing the invention and encouraging the development of widespread cryptographic security for the public. This may have been a wise move during the height of the cold war in the 70's when there were thousands of Soviet tanks poised on the edge of western Europe. Williamson also hastens to note that mathematical equations weren't considered patentable in Britain at the time and without a patent anyone could have used the invention. The RSA patent in the United States was one of the first and it is generally accepted to have expanded the definition. Others are pushing a similar question. In a debate on cryptography policy at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, John Gilmore, one of the founders of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said the NSA should be more open. While national defense is very valuable, he suggested that the need for security in cyberspace for all citizens is going to be essential in the future. In the long run, the history of the discovery of public key cryptography is certain to be written and rewritten often in the next several years as more documents emerge from secret government laboratories. The spokesman from GCHQ promises that more documents are on the way. Hellman is philosophical. "In a way, these things are like gold nuggets that God left in the forest." he said. "If I'm walking along in the forest and I stubbed my toe on it, who's to say I deserve credit for discovering it?" He is quick to point out, however, that he shared the discovery with everyone. _________________________________________________________________ Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company

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An interesting atricle on "High Tech" in Wash DC
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

While looking for something else on cnet.com, I found this article on technology in Washington D.C.. Think your leaders are clueless on the technology? That is because none of them use it! Take a read... http://www.cnet.com/Content/Voices/Hart/111397/index.html --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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Andy Grove on Net Censorship
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just ran across this on Usenet, a quote from several months back: * C-SPAN Television, Wednesday June 5th, 1997 * * Andrew Grove, Chairman & CEO of Intel Corporation, is asked whether * bomb-making information should be censored from the Internet. * * "No. The same information is available in libraries, and we don't * censor libraries, nor should we. When I was thirteen I built a * nitroglycerin bomb. It was an incredibly stupid thing to do, * and I knew someone who had their hand blown off, but I am * adamantly against censoring such material." * * "And unlike a library, a parent can buy a program that uses keyword * monitoring to disallow Internet traffic per the parents' wishes. * Such a program is available now, and costs only $29." Very well put. Maybe Grove can be convinced that Intel should not be part of the Big Brotherish "Key Recovery Alliance." --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Africa & Anthrax - A timely model? [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > MYSTERY DISEASE IN KENYA AND SOMALIA COULD BE FORM OF ANTHRAX > > Web posted at: 3:30 p.m. EST (2030 GMT) > > NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) -- An unexplained disease that has caused scores > of Kenyans, Somalis and livestock to bleed to death this month may > be a form of anthrax, medical experts said Sunday. > > "At the moment, the evidence that we have agrees the most with an > outbreak of anthrax," said Dr. Douglas Klaucke, acting World Health > Organization representative in Kenya. > > The evidence includes symptoms -- high fever, diarrhea, intestinal > problems, vomiting blood -- that are similar to those of intestinal > anthrax, a rare manifestation of the illness that causes stomach > ulcers and inflames the intestines. > > Another sign that anthrax may be to blame is that the disease can be > contracted by eating undercooked, infected meat -- a common practice > in Somalia and Kenya, where recent flooding has marooned thousands > of people who are eating carcasses of sick animals, Klaucke said. With the recent announcement of Anthrax innoculations to be given to all US military personnel because of potential bio-war applications many questions have come up about what this means both militarily as well as for civilian targets. Such outbreaks as the above give real-world examples of the virulence of the pathogen, efficiency of medical & political responces, as well as a base lines to compare to models for disease spread. In short, such instances as above represent the 'best effort' responce that could be expected. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Netcraft Web server survey
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Web continues its staggering growth. According to the just published Netcraft Web server survey, http://www.netcraft.co.uk/Survey , the most popular servers increased in number from 1274396 in November to 1408805 in December (a compound annual rate of over 12%.) Microsoft's Microsoft-IIS was the bigest gainer both in percentage (2.83) and numbers of sites (70838), while Apache continued to easily hold the high ground gaining only a somewhat smaller 60,000 new sites. The biggest losers were Netscape, slipping almost 3% in marketshare and NCSA. C2's Apache server, while gaining a healthy 1500 new sites for the month (for an annualized rate of 18,000 unit sales), lost 0.1% in overall marketshare. Top Servers Server Nov 97 Percent Dec 97 Percent Change Apache 695283 44.74 753341 44.79 0.05 Microsoft-IIS 280917 18.08 351755 20.91 2.83 Netscape-Enterprise 82304 5.30 88616 5.27 -0.03 NCSA 68719 4.42 68097 4.05 -0.37 Stronghold 40276 2.59 41829 2.49 -0.10 --Steve

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by 650reports＠hotmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Some ideas (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Doug, Forwarded message: > From: "Douglas R. Floyd" <dfloyd(a)ssz.com> > Subject: Some ideas > Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:18:14 -0600 (CST) > I have been pondering this: To save on bandwidth, I wonder about having > two types of OSS sites OSS? > -- a "control" site which switchboards incoming/outgoing > stuff to "data" sites. Which needs to have access to at least *all* incoming requests for data as well as a channel to other switchboard sites so they can catalog those requests and won't have to look them up more than once, after that they simply use the request as a key to a index of sources. > This would help with distributing bandwidth load, > and since "data" sites just store encrypted items, the "control" site can > be made more secure. I suspect all the traffic would need to be encrypted to get this to work well. The channels between the switchboards and the databanks also need to be encrypted in such a manner that it is transparent even to the operators what the keys are at any given time. Also, assuming the user provides a request to a switchboard, who then determines the correct server through some mechanism, contacts that databank server and requests a transmission, and finaly the databank server sends the data to the user. How do we track the various keys and verify that the user making the request is the user getting the data? Is the switchboard and databank servers simply tracking the key provided by the original request sufficient? > Another random thing is a way to build a CD-ROM jukebox that would > automatically burn a CD when data meets the requirements of "valuable", and > "offline". Then, when the data is needed again, its fished out and loaded. What you need is a pick-and-place system. It would consist of a handling mechanism, a burning mechanism, a jukebox mechanism, and a CD storage mechanism. Personaly I wouldn't want them all in one in case any one broke down the rest of the system could still keep working. Valuable to who? For how long? Who pays for the stack of CD's up front? What kind of amortization schedule are we looking at for paybacks? Since we are looking at a automated system, what does 'offline' mean when the pick-and-place goes over to the rack and pulls the CD to place in the jukebox and it is now online? How do we charge the user? > Some type of IP encapsulation using public key encryption, so machine A > that is talking to machine D would encapsulate the whole packet with machine > D's key, C's key, and B's key. Then the packet is sent to box B, which > decodes it, looks where to send it, then kicks it to C. C then looks at > it, sends it to machine D. Basically a "remailer", where each packet is > a message. > > Is this feasable at all? Yeah, mixmaster does something similar to this. The problem I have with mixmaster is that the sender has to set up the chaining and keys and such. There simply isn't a clear mechanism (as I understand mixmaster) to do this transparently. One look at the chaining file that is required is enough to explain why granny doesn't use chained mixmaster remailers. Now if we want to do it in the protocol stack then we have a problem because it isn't supported in the standard. What I would do is a little different. An example... Let's assume we have 4 remailers, A to D. The sender sends a packet to A that's header is in the clear. Once A gets it, addressed to an appropriate user to invoke the decryption process, it decrypts the body of the packet. What it assumes is there is another valid packet with unencrypted header which it passes on to B. B gets it and de-crypts it and passes it on. This happens in C and D as well. At no point does any of the processes need to do anything other than use its own key to decrypt. If that fails the packet is trashed. Since no information about its previous source was passed to D from C this failure won't propogate back up the chain, providing a measure of source security. D takes the packet, whose body is still encrypted and remails it to the next address in the header, in this example the actual destination. The issue for me is how do the remailers handle the pass-off. Here are a few of the choices: - the existing mechanism which is completely dependant on the user and their technical skill. I don't like this one, too people intensive. - the sender does it by reference to a key-server and automated chaining software. The software would ask for a sequence of available remailers from the user, go off to the key-server and get the appropriate keys, and create the nested encrypted packets. Then it only has to send them on their way. Still a tad too technical for granny I suspect. - the sender provides a source destination and a number of remailers. The software goes to the key-server, looks up the available remailers (hopefuly there are more than the number requested by the sender) and selects the appropriate number through some mechanism (PRNG is my choice). It then creates the chained packet and sends it on its way. I suspect granny could deal with this one, she knows how to count and has sonnie's email address in her mailer software. What I like about this is the key server represents a mechanism for income. It would cost say $1/month to store your key on the server and then anyone who made the request would get it. The key would automaticaly age and expire if the user didn't keep paying the fee. Further, there would be no distinction between remailers, users, or other processes as to the actual key. It would consist of a list similar to: <user_id>:<expiration_date>:<encryption_protocol>:<encryption_key> for example: ravage@ssz.com:12/30/98:PGP:3$@48@DDcq* (note that some sort of escape mechanism needs to be included so that :'s can be used in keys as well. I put the actual key last. That way I know that any : after the encryption_protocol is a part of the key.) I would have to make requests of the sort: <user_id>:<encryption_protocol> ie: ravage@ssz.com:* Where '*' would return a complete listing for that ID of all registered keys. So to use it I would send an email with the key request(s) in the body one to a line and sent it to 'key-server(a)ssz.com'. The key-server would return something like: Request: ravage@ssz.com:* Key(s): ravage@ssz.com:12/30/98:PGP:#sD81xD@)d Now there is a problem if the key is multi-part. To handle those I would put each key part on a seperate line: Key(s): ravage@ssz.com:12/30/98:Multi-Key:23$@%dSk* ravage@ssz.com:12/30/98:Multi-Key:4dseP2*! So what you would end up with is: Request: <data> Key(s): <data> Request: <data> Key(s): <data> <data> Request: <data> Key(s): <data> Hope that helps. If you use the key server idea as I am explaining it please make shure I get credit for it. As far as I am aware nobody else is using a system similar, nor has one been proposed by other parties. If you find this is an error on my part please let me know. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Some interesting WWI Info
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 621 Wed Dec 17, 1997 T.TELENKO [MilTech Bard] at 08:05 EST The Autumn 1997 issue of MILITARY HISTORY QUARTERLY had an article by Norman Polmar and Thomas Allen on U.S. military plans to gas Japan during Operation Olympic. They ran accross references and put in a FOIA request. Eventually they got a copy of a document labeled "A Study of the Possible Use of Toxic Gas in Operation Olympic." The word "Retaliatory" was PENCILED in between possible and use. Apparently there were only five of these documents circulated during WW2. After the war in 1947 the document was requested by the chemical corp for historical study. In an attempt to "Redact" history, another document was issued to change all the copies to emphisis "Retaliatory" rather than the reality of the US planning to use it offensively in support of the invasion of Japan. The plan called for US heavy bombers to drop 56,583 tons of gas in the 15 days before the invasion of Kyushu than another 23,935 tons every 30 days after that -- and that was just the STRATEGIC bombing campaign. Tactical air support was in addition to that. The ground weapons would contribute 1,400 tons of gas shells. At the time of the invasion, 144,762 tons of gas shells were available. Another 9,356 tons would arrive every 30 days after the invasion. Chemical Corps casualty estimates for this attack plan were 5 million dead with another 5 million casualties. Ultimatly, it looks like the plan was not approved, but prepared for since the gas to impliment it was sent to the Pacific -- Likely as a back up to the A-bomb. Had the Japanese carried out their plan to kill Allied POW's and civilians, the Allied responce would have been horrific. ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 622 Wed Dec 17, 1997 T.HOLSINGER [Tom] at 09:53 EST I wasn't aware there was an _offensive_ plan, but I knew of the scale of the planned "retaliatory" use of gas. These things have a tendency to snowball. Trent doesn't mention that the plan called for mass spraying of mustard gas over urban areas _at the beginning_ of this attack. That isn't retaliation. It is extermination. My estimate of 25-30 million Japanese dead during the US conquest of Japan was based on such a use of chemical warfare, though most of the dead, IMO, would have been from starvation and malnutrition- boosted disease. Trent's discovery here shows some elements of the US government planned overt genocide on Japan. The coverup makes it appear that someone at least felt guilty about it. I'd be a lot more comfortable if there was evidence that these planners were then aware, via SIGINT, of the orders the Imperial Japanese Army had already given, when the invasion of Japan started, to murder all Allied POW's, all interned Allied civilians, and every Allied civilian they could catch in areas occupied by the IJA. My estimate is that the IJA could have murdered at least several million Allied civilians a week for months. The A-bomb, IMO, saved more lives than were lost in all of WWII. ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 623 Wed Dec 17, 1997 T.ZBARASCHU1 [Tony] at 10:28 EST I believe that the U.S. considered using gas at Iwo Jima, but decided not to. Trent, any evidence that this was a seriously considered plan, as opposed to a staff study that the planners drew up just to see what the necessary requirements would be? ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 624 Wed Dec 17, 1997 JOHN.BARNES [John Barnes] at 11:35 EST Moving poison gas in those quantities strikes me as reasonably good evidence that somebody was doing more than playing paper games. ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 625 Wed Dec 17, 1997 T.TELENKO [MilTech Bard] at 13:12 EST According to Allen and Polmar, the June 18, 1945 meeting where Harry Truman was briefed on Operation Downfall -- the over all plan to invade Japan -- by Adm King, Gen Marshall and the rest of the Joint Chiefs was probably when the topic was broached. We know now that the decision to drop the atomic bomb was made then, although the notes for the meeting only refered to "undisclosed topics.". On 21 June 1945, orders were issued by the Army to produce and ship the necessary quantities of war gas to the Pacific Theater to impliment the plan. The key passage from that Gas Attack Plan was: "Gas is the one single weapon hitherto unused which we can have readily available which assuredly can greatly decrease the cost in American lives and should materialy shorten the war." I'd say that this meeting decided that the US was unwilling to take the kind of mass casualties, using Okinawa as a model, that a conventional landing would cost and any available WMD would be used to reduce American casualties. ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 626 Wed Dec 17, 1997 T.HOLSINGER [Tom] at 21:43 EST Trent, Your 625's logic is convincing. The timing makes it look as though there was a Presidential decision on June 18 to conduct a strategic gas attack on Japan in preparation for the invasion, if the A-Bomb didn't work. This presents a completely different picture than what I had imagined. I thought the Japanese would have initiated genocide in the event of invasion. Instead there is fair evidence that we would have started it. My recollection is that Imperial Headquarters gave the genocide orders to Field Marshal Teruachi in July. ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 627 Wed Dec 17, 1997 T.TELENKO [MilTech Bard] at 22:39 EST The thing that sticks out for me is that Truman's choice was not Invasion or the A-Bomb. It was Gas, Invasion and the A-Bomb. Any way promised a great deal of dead. Truman chose the route that was most likely to shock the Japanese into surrendering with the least loss of life. History will judge him differently in the long term because of the finding of this document. This also explains his expressed strong faith in having taken the correct corse of action. Still, we don't know exactly what was said on the subject of gas in that meeting. I suspect the full, genocidal, aspects of the gas attack plan would not have been implimented until Operation Coronet. That is, after the Japanese started murdering Allied POW's and interned/occupied civilians. Operation Olympic -- the invasion of Kyushu -- would probably have been limited to gasing the beaches and air fields after a series of raids by the carrier fleets. To lay the proper political ground work for the use of gas, the US Government would have released the newsreels of the Kamikazi attacks on the US Navy off of Okinawa and Japan. The shock that would have delivered to the American public would have prepared them for the arguement that gas was needed to win. ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 628 Wed Dec 17, 1997 L.TILTON [Lois] at 23:18 EST I wonder if there were not contingency plans for gassing Berlin. The A-bomb was originally proposed to be used against Berlin, but it wasn't ready in time. ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 629 Wed Dec 17, 1997 JOHN.BARNES [John Barnes] at 23:26 EST There was also some hope, in late '43 when things looked like they were coming together faster than they did, of either using the bomb to create a no-resistanc e landing area, or using it on a rail center to prevent reinforcement for D-Day. I think the biggest hope was really just to get it before Hitler, who, had the Nazis not been such nitwits, had what looked like overwhelming odds of getting there first. ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 630 Thu Dec 18, 1997 T.ZBARASCHU1 [Tony] at 00:43 EST Orders to produce and ship that much gas? OK, I'll accept that as evidence that this was more than a "staff plan". OTOH, we did keep a fair amount of gas on hand in the European theater for retaliatory purposes, but this particular document does look like it was a bit more than retaliatory. Thank God for the atom bomb. Thank God I didn't have to make that decision. ------------ SFRT 1 - Reading Category 22, Topic 2 Message 631 Thu Dec 18, 1997 T.TELENKO [MilTech Bard] at 12:48 EST The American Army in WW2 carried around huge amounts of war gas as a matter of course. In Early 1943, MacArther had at his disposal in the South West Pacific area the following: o 15,000 gas Howitzer shells o 19,000 gas mortar shells o 22,500 five inch rocket shells o 18,000 aerial bombs of various sizes o 6,500 aerial spray tank kits. By the end of 1945, the US had 4.4 million gas artillery shells, 1 million mortar rounds, 1.25 million gas aerial bombs and 112,000 aerial spray tank kits. What counts is policy and the intent to follow it. The article mentions that Gen Marshall brought up the use of gas in a 29 May 1945 meeting with War Sec. Stimpson. He wanted to use gas against the "outer japanese islands" with less than our best war gas (Mustard gas) to "take the fight out of" the Japanese soldier and reduce American casualties. He then commissioned a the study I have been quoting using chemical warfare officers and USAAF targetiers -- one Col and three Capt. -- who introduced the major strategic gassing angle. I got the impression that they wanted to use their toy to the fullest, rather than smooth the invasion via reduced American casualties. I suspect my idea of military gassing only -- landing beaches and airfields -- during Operation Olympic was the most likely policy result. After the Japanese Army went on its killing spree, all bets are off. ------------

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Let's get the US Gov. to give us guns!...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the authority of training and Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Basic Cryptanalysis
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Recently it was noted here that US Army Field Manual 34-40-2, Basic Cryptanalysis, (1990) has been withdrawn from the Army's Web site. Thanks to archiving by a cpunk we offer the full manual in PDF format. See the contents at: http://jya.com/fm/fm34-40-2.htm

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Sue Congress?...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. [Clearly congressmen are responsible for their actions while in office since they are civil officers. It looks like all it should take to remove a civil officer is a misdemeanor such as speeding.] Section 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; -- to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; -- to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; -- to Controversies between two or more States; -- between a State and Citizens of another State; -- between Citizens of different States; -- between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States; -- and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. [Note that there is no federal jurisdiction for sueing your own representatives at the federal level since they are citizens of your own state, however you *can* sue the representatives of the *other* 49 states for their actions and that *is* a federal level case] In all Cases, affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make. [Clearly any such claims *must* be at the level of the Supreme Court since they hold original jurisdiction, further there doesn't seem to be any mechanism they can refuse to handle the case] The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed. [Since the breaking of the oath to uphold the Constitution while a representative is a impeachable offence no jury is required. Once the case is before the Supreme Court then the Congress is required to set the time and date] The question of the day is: How does one go about submitting a case directly to the Supreme Court? The Constitution apparently leaves this up to the Supreme Court to decide in its rules of operation. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Sue Congress?... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 23:54:15 -0500 > From: David Miller <dm0(a)avana.net> > Subject: Re: Sue Congress?... > > The question of the day is: > > > > How does one go about submitting a case directly to the Supreme Court? The > > Constitution apparently leaves this up to the Supreme Court to decide in its > > rules of operation. > > In large part, yes. It is up to the Court's sole discretion whether or > not they > will hear a case. I believe that all cases they hear are appeals. I'm > pretty > sure you can't just go to the Supreme Court, but must follow due > process... The quotes from the Constitution, which you apparently didn't read, clearly indicate that the role of the Supreme Court is more than a simple appeals court. Further, while they may refuse to hear appeals, hence confirming the lower courts ruling with a supreme stamp of approval, there is *nothing* in the Constitution and hence their rules that allows them to refuse to accept cases where they are the only Constitutional jurisdiction, such as impeachment proceedings of Congressmen relating to un-constitutional actions that may result in their impeachment. Once the case is submitted to the Supreme Court then Congress, not the SC, chooses the place and time. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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17.html
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

SUPREME COURT OF THE U.S. - RULES ..Part IV. Other Jurisdiction _________________________________________________________________ Rule 17. Procedure in an Original Action * 1. This Rule applies only to an action invoking the Court's original jurisdiction under Article III of the Constitution of the United States. See also 28 U. S. C. §1251 and U. S. Const., Amdt. 11. A petition for an extraordinary writ in aid of the Court's appellate jurisdiction shall be filed as provided in Rule 20. * 2. The form of pleadings and motions prescribed by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure is followed. In other respects, those Rules and the Federal Rules of Evidence may be taken as guides. * 3. The initial pleading shall be preceded by a motion for leave to file, and may be accompanied by a brief in support of the motion. Forty copies of each document shall be filed, with proof of service. Service shall be as required by Rule 29, except that when an adverse party is a State, service shall be made on both the Governor and the Attorney General of that State. * 4. The case will be placed on the docket when the motion for leave to file and the initial pleading are filed with the Clerk. The Rule 38(a) docket fee shall be paid at that time. * 5. No more than 60 days after receiving the motion for leave to file and the initial pleading, an adverse party shall file 40 copies of any brief in opposition to the motion, with proof of service as required by Rule 29. The Clerk will distribute the filed documents to the Court for its consideration upon receiving an express waiver of the right to file a brief in opposition, or, if no waiver or brief is filed, upon the expiration of the time allowed for filing. If a brief in opposition is timely filed, the Clerk will distribute the filed documents to the Court for its consideration no less than 10 days after the brief in opposition is filed. A reply brief may be filed, but consideration of the case will not be deferred pending its receipt. The Court thereafter may grant or deny the motion, set it for oral argument, direct that additional documents be filed, or require that other proceedings be conducted. * 6. A summons issued out of this Court shall be served on the defendant 60 days before the return day specified therein. If the defendant does not respond by the return day, the plaintiff may proceed ex parte. * 7. Process against a State issued out of this Court shall be served on both the Governor and the Attorney General of that State. _________________________________________________________________ [Previous Section -] [Next Section +] [Overview] _________________________________________________________________

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constitution.articleiii.html
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Article III Section 1. The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office. Section 2. The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects. In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make. The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed. Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted. ========================================================== * Next Article--Previous Article * Table of Articles and Amendments * Overview of Full Constitution ==========================================================

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constitution.amendmentxi.html
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Amendment XI The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by citizens of another state, or by citizens or subjects of any foreign state. ========================================================== * Next Amendment--Previous Amendment * Table of Articles and Amendments * Overview of Full Constitution ==========================================================

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1251.html
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

§ 1251. Original jurisdiction * (a) The Supreme Court shall have original and exclusive jurisdiction of all controversies between two or more States. * (b) The Supreme Court shall have original but not exclusive jurisdiction of: + (1) All actions or proceedings to which ambassadors, other public ministers, consuls, or vice consuls of foreign states are parties; + (2) All controversies between the United States and a State; + (3) All actions or proceedings by a State against the citizens of another State or against aliens.

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29.html
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

SUPREME COURT OF THE U.S. - RULES ..Part VII. Practice and Procedure _________________________________________________________________ Rule 29. Filing and Service of Documents; Special Notifications; Corporate Listing * 1. Any document required or permitted to be presented to the Court or to a Justice shall be filed with the Clerk. * 2. A document is timely filed if it is sent to the Clerk through the United States Postal Service by first-class mail (including express or priority mail), postage prepaid, and bears a postmark showing that the document was mailed on or before the last day for filing. Commercial postage meter labels alone are not acceptable. If submitted by an inmate confined in an institution, a document is timely filed if it is deposited in the institution's internal mail system on or before the last day for filing and is accompanied by a notarized statement or declaration in compliance with 28 U. S. C. §1746 setting out the date of deposit and stating that first-class postage has been prepaid. If the postmark is missing or not legible, the Clerk will require the person who mailed the document to submit a notarized statement or declaration in compliance with 28 U. S. C. §1746 setting out the details of the mailing and stating that the mailing took place on a particular date within the permitted time. A document also is timely filed if it is forwarded through a private delivery or courier service and is actually received by the Clerk within the time permitted for filing. * 3. Any document required by these Rules to be served may be served personally or by mail on each party to the proceeding at or before the time of filing. If the document has been prepared as required by Rule 33.1, three copies shall be served on each other party separately represented in the proceeding. If the document has been prepared as required by Rule 33.2, service of a single copy on each other separately represented party suffices. If personal service is made, it shall consist of delivery at the office of the counsel of record, either to counsel or to an employee therein. If service is by mail, it shall consist of depositing the document with the United States Postal Service, with no less than first-class postage prepaid, addressed to counsel of record at the proper post office address. When a party is not represented by counsel, service shall be made on the party, personally or by mail. * 4. (a) If the United States or any federal department, office, agency, officer, or employee is a party to be served, service shall be made on the Solicitor General of the United States, Room 5614, Department of Justice, 10th St. and Constitution Ave., N. W., Washington, DC 20530. When an agency of the United States that is a party is authorized by law to appear before this Court on its own behalf, or when an officer or employee of the United States is a party, the agency, officer, or employee shall be served in addition to the Solicitor General. + (b) In any proceeding in this Court in which the constitutionality of an Act of Congress is drawn into question, and neither the United States nor any federal department, office, agency, officer, or employee is a party, the initial document filed in this Court shall recite that 28 U. S. C. §2403(a) may apply and shall be served on the Solicitor General of the United States, Room 5614, Department of Justice, 10th St. and Constitution Ave., N. W., Washington, DC 20530. In such a proceeding from any court of the United States, as defined by 28 U. S. C. §451, the initial document also shall state whether that court, pursuant to 28 U. S. C. §2403(a), certified to the Attorney General the fact that the constitutionality of an Act of Congress was drawn into question. See Rule 14.1(e)(v). + (c) In any proceeding in this Court in which the constitutionality of any statute of a State is drawn into question, and neither the State nor any agency, officer, or employee thereof is a party, the initial document filed in this Court shall recite that 28 U. S. C. §2403(b) may apply and shall be served on the Attorney General of that State. In such a proceeding from any court of the United States, as defined by 28 U. S. C. §451, the initial document also shall state whether that court, pursuant to 28 U. S. C. §2403(b), certified to the State Attorney General the fact that the constitutionality of a statute of that State was drawn into question. See Rule 14.1(e)(v). * 5. Proof of service, when required by these Rules, shall accompany the document when it is presented to the Clerk for filing and shall be separate from it. Proof of service shall contain, or be accompanied by, a statement that all parties required to be served have been served, together with a list of the names, addresses, and telephone numbers of counsel indicating the name of the party or parties each counsel represents. It is not necessary that service on each party required to be served be made in the same manner or evidenced by the same proof. Proof of service may consist of any one of the following: + (a) an acknowledgment of service, signed by counsel of record for the party served; + (b) a certificate of service, reciting the facts and circumstances of service in compliance with the appropriate paragraph or paragraphs of this Rule, and signed by a member of the Bar of this Court representing the party on whose behalf service is made or by an attorney appointed to represent that party under the Criminal Justice Act of 1964, see 18 U. S. C. §3006A(d)(6), or under any other applicable federal statute; or + (c) a notarized affidavit or declaration in compliance with 28 U. S. C. §1746, reciting the facts and circumstances of service in accordance with the appropriate paragraph or paragraphs of this Rule, whenever service is made by any person not a member of the Bar of this Court and not an attorney appointed to represent a party under the Criminal Justice Act of 1964, see 18 U. S. C. §3006A(d)(6), or under any other applicable federal statute. * 6. Every document, except a joint appendix or amicus curiae brief, filed by or on behalf of one or more corporations shall list all parent companies and nonwholly owned subsidiaries of each of the corporate filers. If there is no parent or subsidiary company to be listed, a notation to this effect shall be included in the document. If a list has been included in a document filed earlier in the case, reference may be made to the earlier document (except when the earlier list appeared in an application for an extension of time or for a stay), and only amendments to the list to make it current need be included in the document being filed. _________________________________________________________________ [Previous Section -] [Next Section +] [Overview] _________________________________________________________________

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constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Amendment XI > > The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to > extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against > one of the United States by citizens of another state, or by citizens > or subjects of any foreign state. Of note is that this amendment *only* covers cases where a citizen sues a *single* state, not 49 of them. There is no Constitutional rule that covers the process between a individual and more than a single state. It simply ain't there. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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http:--allpolitics.com-1997-12-28-clinton.budget-
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[IMAGE] community Join a thread, start a thread -- it's your chance to sound off! Infoseek search __________ ______ Help Navigation CLINTON ADVISER: NO MAJOR TAX CUT IN 1998 Tax Cut WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, Dec. 28) -- President Bill Clinton will not propose any across-the-board tax cut or push for any major overhaul of the tax system in his 1998 budget, a senior White House adviser said Sunday. But speaking on NBC's "Meet The Press," Rahm Emanuel also said that Clinton would not necessarily veto any tax cut sent to the White House by Congress, provided it didn't bust an existing spending agreement that would balance the budget by 2002. "If others have an approach, we'd love to see it," he said. "(But) where are they going to pay for it? Are they talking about cuts in health care? Are they talking about cuts in senior programs?" Some Wall Street analysts have forecast a surplus of as much as $40 billion in the current fiscal year, which runs through September 30 -- a surplus that proponents of a tax cut say could be used to pay for it. Emanuel But Emanuel said the White House believes that no decisions about what to do with the surplus should be made until a surplus actually materializes. "Washington should not return to its bad habits of spending money it doesn't have," he said. "That's what got us into trouble in the first place in the 1980s." In addition to tax cuts, a number of Republicans, including House Majority Leader Dick Armey and 1996 presidential candidate Steve Forbes, have also proposed so-called "flat tax" plans that would radically alter the income tax system. Others want to replace income tax entirely with a national sales tax. Even Democratic House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt has a modified "flat tax" plan that would simplify the system and reduce tax rates for middle and lower income taxpayers. But Sunday, Emanuel made it clear the White House wasn't looking to make any such radical changes in the tax code in 1998. "We finally have gotten the deficit under wraps and lifted it off the back of the economy," he said. "We shouldn't do anything reckless or irresponsible." However, Clinton will propose new tax credits targeted toward helping middle-class families pay for child care, Emanuel said. Reuters contributed to this report. Advertise on AllPolitics. Click here for info. Come see the cures of tomorrow Congressional Quarterly Search the Web with InfoSeek Barnes & Noble book search _________________________________________________________________ home | news | in-depth | analysis | what's new | community | contents | search _________________________________________________________________ Click here for technical help or to send us feedback. Copyright © 1997 AllPolitics All Rights Reserved. Terms under which this information is provided to you.

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http:--www.cnn.com-US-9712-28-briefs.pm-britain.getty.ap-
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

CNN logo Navigation COMMUNITY Message Boards Chat Feedback SITE SOURCES Contents Help! Search CNN Networks SPECIALS Quick News Almanac Video Vault News Quiz Infoseek/Big Yellow Pathfinder/Warner Bros Barnes and Noble Year In Review Main banner Click here for TIME daily rule JOHN PAUL GETTY II NOW A BRITISH CITIZEN December 28, 1997 Web posted at: 9:58 p.m. EST (0258 GMT) LONDON (AP) -- American billionaire John Paul Getty II is an American no longer. The London Sunday Telegraph says the philanthropist has become a British citizen and revoked his U.S. citizenship. Sources in the British government confirm the move. Getty is 65 and has lived in Britain for 25 years. During that time, he's become one of the country's major benefactors. In 1986, he even received an honorary knighthood from Queen Elizabeth II. The Forbes magazine list of the 400 richest Americans estimates Getty's fortune at $1 billion. _________________________________________________________________ Infoseek search ____________________ ____ ____ _________________________________________________________________ rule Message Boards Sound off on our message boards & chat [INLINE] Click here for TIME daily rule To the top © 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Terms under which this service is provided to you.

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Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I finaly got around to doing some research on Tim's claim regarding H&K's G3 being a 5.56 round while the various folks I have been talking to refer to it as a 7.62. Tim's claim that the 7.62 (.308) is actualy the HK-91/G1 and not the G3 is correct. The confusion comes from the fact that a few years ago the German Bundswehr quit using the HK and began using the FN/G3 which is 7.62. I had assumed the G3 it was refering to was the H&K and when I talked to the local gun nut he thought I was talking about the current model because I had made a comment a while back about it being used by the Germans as their standard infantry model and being .308. So, H&K 91/G1 is 7.62 (.308) (old standard issue) H&K 93/G3 is 5.56 (.223) FN/G3 is 7.62 (.308) (current standard issue) My suggested rifle *is* the H&K 91/G1 which is .308 and the local gun shop says used they run in the $1500 to $3000 range. New ones aren't imported. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is cross-ruminated. ( )( )________ Timmy May /00 \ _ O_\\--mm---mm /_______)

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need a life Style Change ?
by reality＠kcsmarketing.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Your New Merchant Account is Waiting
by kb1LGeasG＠206.165.6.202 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Your New Merchant Account is HERE. Accept Visa, Master Card, Discover and American Express within the next 10 days. Get INSTANT CREDIBILITY and make it easier for your customer to buy what you're selling ! Get all the information 1-800-601-2612 We've cut out all the RED TAPE !!! > No "Tell us How You Do Your Business" Questions >>> No Financial Statements >>>>> No Tax Returns >>>>>>> No Trade References >>>>>>>>> No Photos of Your Office And NONE of the other BALONEY that most businesses, especially mail order, internet , and new businesses ALWAYS have to go through. Maybe You Have > A Mail Order Business >>> An Internet Business >>>>> A Home Based Business >>>>>>> No Past Financial Statements >>>>>>>>> A New Business >>>>>>>>>>> Past Credit Problems >>>>>>>>>>>>> Already Been Told NO We use a 1 page Super Simple Approval Sheet that a 6 year old could fill out in 5 minutes. You see, We are large enough that We actually Approve the account ourselves... Your application doesn't get submitted to some faceless Bank like it does with literally all other Merchant Account Providers. Because of our financial strength we are authorized to APPROVE the account in our offices and we do !!! Then we GUARANTEE it to the Bank. (THEY CAN'T LOSE...THEY LIKE THAT) WE PUT THROUGH 99.9% OF EVERYONE WHO APPLIES ! But you have to have DEEP pockets to operate this way and we do. That's how we can offer such a fantastic program. We have been doing this so long we know that most folks who come ot us are just honest, hard working business people and we never have a problem. So we designed this program just for YOU. >>Process orders right from your PC >>>Funds wired directly to your Personal or Business Bank Account FAST! FAST! FAST! >>>>Very Competitive Rates, Great 24 hour Service, We are the Largest Provider of Merchant Accounts for Home Based and New Businesses on the Internet Today. We did over 2 billion in transactions last year and we want to double that in '98 !! To do that we have used our size and financial clout to get you the fastest mos >>>USER FRIENDLY<<<< Program ever offered ! If you are ready to do a lot more business (anyone who accepts credit cards does...) Then We want to work with YOU Call right Now to get all the information and get started. You will soon be accepting Credit Cards in your business and be making MORE MONEY ! Better order more product... >>>>>>>>>>>You're gonna need it !!! Call 1-800-601-2612 Today.

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Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 08:32:34 -0600 > Subject: Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd) > >Of note is that this amendment *only* covers cases where a citizen sues a > >*single* state, not 49 of them. > > >There is no Constitutional rule that covers the process between a > >individual and more than a single state. It simply ain't there. > > Well considering that the Constitution is a *limiting* document, if the > powers are not explicitly given to the Federal Government they don't have > them. > > Soooo, in the case of a citizen sues multiple states the Federal > Government still has no juristiction as they have never explicitly been > given that power. So what you are saying, though I doubt you realize it, is that a citizen *can't* sue 2 or more states as a group. They *must* sue singly and in the individual state courts. Of course, this isn't explicity described either, so where does this authority come from? This means there is no way to sue states as a group for their actions in regards to relations to the federal government. So the federal government can require the states to do all kinds of things and I as a citizen and effected by those actions can't sue the states but only the federal government. Interesting hole. I wonder if it will hold up. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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List of reliable remailers
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = '<alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = "<mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = "<remailer(a)replay.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = "<remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = "<winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = '<config(a)nym.alias.net> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = "<mix(a)squirrel.owl.de> cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = '<config(a)weasel.owl.de> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = "<middleman(a)cyberpass.net> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = "<remailer(a)anon.efga.org> cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = '<config(a)anon.efga.org> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = "<remailer(a)bureau42.ml.org> cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = "<remailer(a)neva.org> cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = "<mix(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu> mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = "<medusa(a)weasel.owl.de> mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = "<mccain(a)notatla.demon.co.uk> mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = "<valdeez(a)juno.com> cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = "<arrid(a)juno.com> cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = "<goddesshera(a)juno.com> cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = "<h_tuttle(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst(a)netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth(a)ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura(a)replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer(a)crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one. Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- hera goddesshera(a)juno.com ------------ 5:03:45 99.86% nym config(a)nym.alias.net +*#**#**### :34 95.82% redneck config(a)anon.efga.org #*##*+#**** 2:00 95.44% mix mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com +++ ++++++* 19:18 95.27% squirrel mix(a)squirrel.owl.de -- ---+--- 2:34:19 95.16% cyber alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net *++***+ ++ 11:26 95.11% replay remailer(a)replay.com **** *** 10:06 94.93% arrid arrid(a)juno.com ----.------ 8:50:34 94.41% bureau42 remailer(a)bureau42.ml.org --------- 3:38:29 93.53% cracker remailer(a)anon.efga.org + +*+*+*+ 16:32 92.80% jam remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca + +*-++++ 24:14 92.79% winsock winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net -..-..---- 9:59:18 92.22% neva remailer(a)neva.org ------****+ 1:03:02 90.39% valdeez valdeez(a)juno.com 4:58:22 -36.97% reno middleman(a)cyberpass.net 1:01:28 -2.65% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien

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Right to sue multiple states...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

ARTICLE III. Section 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; [deleted text] between Citizens of different States; [deleted text] Clearly my suing say the govenor and legislature of each of the 50 states qualifies as a case involving citizens of different states and therefore there is clearly a right to sue multiple states at the federal level and falls under the responsibility of the Supreme Court. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

2 1

Vulis again
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 07:18:08 -0500 > Message-ID: <031ce308b9b0af69c83a11320732d575(a)anon.efga.org> > From: Anonymous <anon(a)anon.efga.org> > > Timmy May's reheated, refurbished, and > regurgitated cud is completely > inappropriate for the mailing lists into > which it is cross-ruminated. > > ( )( )________ Timmy May > /00 \ _ > O_\\--mm---mm /_______) I see you are still sending ascii-art decorated sweet little nothings to the people you love... ---guy Medication refill time, Dimitry.

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Successful Subscription
by eureka-help＠eureka.abc-web.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

WELCOME TO EUREKA! ================== Congratulations, your free subscription to the Eureka! newsletter is now set up. We hope you enjoy every copy. As promised, while you wait for your first newsletter here are the links to the FREE videos and FREE photos! FREE hardcore videos ........... http://207.168.184.26/ FREE hardcore photos .... http://209.50.232.36/desires/ - Eureka! *FREE porn in your email!*

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Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 09:17:55 -0600 > Subject: Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd) > Well you can only sue the state that has caused some form of direct damage > against you. Really? Where is that in the Constitution? I can't sue a state or the federal government on an issue of process or procedure unless I *personaly* have been effected? Malarky. The simple fact that I am a citizen that *could* be effected is sufficient grounds to file. Especialy considering the detailing of authority in the 10th. If this were so I would not be able to file against a law regulating, for example, a religion unless I happen to be a participant of that religion. This is clearly not constitutional since any law threating a single religion by extension can and does threaten all religious freedom in the country. > If both Texas and Alaska are doing somthing Unconstitutional > but Texas is the only one who has directly caused damage then you should > only be able to sue Texas. Why? If both states are participating in an illegal action - such as complying with unconstitutional federal regulations - then even a single state in which I *don't* reside nor have *ever* been in is a clear threat to my constitutional rights. Remember the feds are *required* to guarantee a constitutional government in *all* states and that all priviliges and immunitites be recognized by those states - irrespective of my current geographic location. Now if we accept the argument that the 14th extends my federal rights to the states then the wrongful action and its application is even more clearly relevant. However, the 14th is not necessary for this to be the case. (thankfuly, since one of my claims is that rights are not equivalent to priviliges or immunities) It is the precedence and not the personal application that is unconstitutional. > I think that in the majority of > cases one will find that a greviance will be limited to a single state (I > think it would be very rare to find a case where all 50 states had > directly caused damage against an individule). - Illegal taxation and the compliance of the states in turning over money illegaly - regulation and prohibition of firearms and the states complicancy in breaking the 2nd. - the provisioning and support of military operations relating to the Army and Air Force (which is unconstitutional unless part of the Army or Navy) for more than 2 year terms. - the failure of the US govt. to train and arm the militia in the several states - the various federal regulations limiting consensual crimes contrary to the letter and spirit of the 9th and 10th. - the abrogation of the states duties as equals to the federal govt. and their duties as a part of the checks and balances of the Constitution. And as a matter of course most other issues resting on Constitutional jurisdiction involving the willing compliance of state government. > An example of this would be back in the 50's with the forced segregation > laws. If you were living in Georga and wished to bring suit against the > state for violating your rights you would be limited to only suing Georga > even though AL,FL,SC,NC,TX,AR, all had the same laws on the books. Nobody that I can find has *ever* even tried to do this so how can it be undoable? It's a pity there wasn't some young turk back then to give it a shot - course there doesn't seem to be any young turks now willing to do it either...;( Now, if I can figure a way around the Supreme Courts 3 year requirement... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Right to sue multiple states... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 09:39:29 -0600 > Subject: Re: Right to sue multiple states... > >Clearly my suing say the govenor and legislature of each of the 50 states > >qualifies as a case involving citizens of different states and therefore > >there is clearly a right to sue multiple states at the federal level and > >falls under the responsibility of the Supreme Court. > > Good point execpt are we talking of suing a States' governemnt for damages > or are we talking of suing individules, who happen to be part of a State's > government, for damages? We are talking about suing an individual for their actions in their official capacity. People sign bills not offices. People commit crimes, offices can't. > I think that it is universal that one is > precluded from suing a memeber of government for carying out the duties of > office (ie: you can't sue the Governor of Texas for passing a law you > don't like while you can sue the govenor if hits your car going down the > road). I can find nothing in the Constitution that prohibits this, and since the 10th limits the feds authority by extension it is permissible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ARTICLE III. Section 1. The judicial Power of the United States, shall be invested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. Section 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; -- to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; In all Cases, affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Clearly the Constitution allows charges against individuals for their actions while in office. Otherwise how would anyone be impeached? The person holding an office is responsible for all actions of that office and are in fact *personaly* responsible for those actions. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Eureka! Tue Dec 30 '97
by eureka＠eureka.abc-web.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:12:06 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment > From: nobody(a)REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > >Hmmm... > > > >Apologies. In *theory* you have those rights, on *paper*, you have those > >rights, but in *practice*, you're correct, the Government has power that > >it gleefully abuses, forcing others to comply w/ political correctness. > > Well no, on paper you do have those rights, and you don't have those > rights. Laws have been written so that you do not have those rights. > Are those laws consitutional? No. Does the fascist regime, or the > average apathetic American care? No. All it takes is a small group of individuals willing to fight the fight. Constitutional democracy is *not* mob rule. As long as you quit because nobody else will pat you on the shoulder and tell you how right you are then you aren't freedom loving. Freedom is a selfish endeavour. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Wit Capital Update: Virtual Roadshow Service Launched
by news＠witcapital.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Wit Capital Update December 29, 1997 www.witcapital.com Member NASD/SIPC Wit Capital has launched an exciting new service that will help you learn more about the public offerings on our web site. For selected Wit Capital offerings, in connection with your review of the prospectus, you'll find "virtual roadshow" presentations available for viewing right on your PC. A roadshow is the process by which underwriters acquaint investors with the products, people and finances of the company whose stock is to be publicly offered. Traditionally, only institutional investors are invited to see these presentations, but now you can view them at the click of your mouse. To view a virtual roadshow, go to the Look at New Issues section of our web site, find the prospectus that interests you and as part of your review of the prospectus, click the button marked View Roadshow. You'll be asked to download a plug-in called RealPlayer 5.0, for which you'll see easy instructions. We encourage you to read the complete prospectus for any Wit Capital offering.

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Re: Why I Support Microsoft
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 12/29/97 6:47 AM, Patrick May (pjm(a)spe.com) passed this wisdom: > Okay, so I'm a UNIX-head; I forgot about the Macs (a dangerous >thing to do, given the ferocity of their supporters). If the >government were to adopt my suggestion, two major results would be: > > - The third party market for Linux software would grow rapidly > and enormously. > - The government's software budget would be reduced dramatically. that's OK, we Mac-heads have MacLinkPlus translators, we just get em to write another half dozen or so translators for Linux and Linux file system recognitions to the OS, no big deal ... we have always prided ourselves that MacOS often reads and processes Windoze documents better than WinDoze does ... Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "In effect, to follow, not to force the public inclination; to give a direction, a form, a technical dress, and a specific sanction, to the general sense of the community, is the true end of legislature." -- Edmund Burke

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Sniping & such...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, To address Tim's question about bolt-actions. As far as I know the Marine sniper still uses the Remington 7.62 bolt-action as his arm of choice. The beauty of the H&K blow-back mechanism is that it is very accurate at long range compared to other gas operated mechanism. However, in the situation we are discussion - taking on an assault team with snipers, aka anti-sniping, this level of accuracy is irrelevant. The goal is to stop the assault. To this end single shot accuracy is irrelevant. The reason is that we are not trying to hit a 16 in.^2 piece of brain pan and *not* hit the hostage in front. What we *are* trying to do is locate and eliminate specific targets and any ancillary hits to personnel on that end are a *good* thing. To that end I still like the H&K's because they have the 3-shot selector. My goal would be to set my IIS to show hot targets as black, with the black threshold about 90F. I would then pop off a 3-shot group into anything that looked the least bit like a person. Think of it as a .308 mini-shotgun at 600 yds. Under those conditions a 6-12 in. spread *is* a good thing. With this in mind, you would want to wear nomex to reduce your heat signature, a gillie suit for reduced visual targeting, and some sort of cool suit (from your local auto performance shop) with a modified and remote dissipator to reduce your heat signature so that *their* scopes don't show you as black. If you're in your house a good place to put the dissipator would be in the bathtub or sink. You might also want to cool-suit the gun as well. If you're in the field the dissipator should go behind and below your level of site, it's probably a good thing to cover it with dirt or debris as well. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 10:32:02 -0600 > Subject: Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd) > No this flys in the face of 200 yrs of American laws and centuries more of > English law. If your rights have not been infringed then you can't sue. The founding fathers took care of this argument also... THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES ARTICLE VI. This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 11:22:11 -0600 > Subject: Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd) > I fail to see how this gives you the right to bring suit when you were not > the infringed party?? That's your problem Bill, you don't 'see'. I am a citizen of the United States, all laws passed at the federal level and *any* parties which participate in the application of those laws whether against me or another are in fact threatening my liberty if those laws are unconstitutional. You fuck over one citizen, you fuck over all citizens. *THAT* is what makes me the infringed party. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION ARTICLE IX. The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. ARTICLE X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Abandonment of legal precedence...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation. We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness--That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such Principles and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of Abuses and Ursurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The *entire* point of the forming of the United States over 200 years ago was the specific intent to break with precedence, in particular *English* precedence, and find a new way. [personaly, every time I hear somebody mention English commen law as a justification to deny the Constitution I want to slap the holy shit out of them] In short (paraphrased), I took the road less travelled, and it made all the difference. -don't remember- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 11:36:51 -0600 > Subject: Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd) > By your logic the individule States have no sovernty and the citizens of > one state can impose thier will against the citizens of another. This > clearly goes against both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution. Not exactly. States have the sovereignty *given* them by the Constitution and their individual state constitutions. Further, one state can *not* under the Constitution deny me a right in that state that I have in another. Perhaps an example. The 2nd gives me the right to bear arms. Texas' constitution gives the Texas legislature the right to regulate the ownership and carrying of arms by Texas *citizens*. Those same laws could *not* be used to deny a citizen of Louisiana from carrying their weapon if *their* constitution does not regulate such activities. It isn't *my* logic Bill, it's the Constitutions law: ARTICLE X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. It goes like this: - A question of jurisdiction is noted. - The Constitution is examined to see if it is assigned to the federal government. - If it isn't then we look to see if the Constitution denies that power to the states. If not then the individual states may impliment it as *their* constitutions allow, provided it does not break any of the Constitutions dicta about equal protection and recognition. - If the state constitution doesn't cover it *or* it is denied to the states by the Constitution then we each get to decide it on our own by our own means. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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States in the Constitution
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Constitution: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the authority of training and Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; Section 10. No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; Coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing its inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay. Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector. Section 2. The President shall be the Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. Section 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; -- to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; -- to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; -- to Controversies between two or more States; -- between a State and Citizens of another State; -- between Citizens of different States; -- between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States; -- and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. In all Cases, affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make. Section 1. Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. Section 2. The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from with he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime. {No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.} [See Amendment XIII.] Section 3. New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress. The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States, and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State. Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence. The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions of the three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which shall be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of it's equal Suffrage in the Senate. This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same. The Amendments: ARTICLE VI. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have Assistance of Counsel for his defence. ARTICLE X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ARTICLE XI. The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State. [8 January 1798.] ARTICLE XIII. Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. [18 December 1865.] ARTICLE XIV. Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in a rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State. Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume to pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void. Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. [28 July 1868.] ARTICLE XV. Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude ---- Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. ---- [30 March 1870.] ARTICLE XVI. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration. [25 February 1913.] ARTICLE XVII. The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislature. When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: *Provided*, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct. This amendment shall not be construed as to affect the election or term of any senator chosen before it becomes a valid part of the Constitution. [31 May 1913.] ARTICLE XIX. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. The Congress shall have power by appropriate legislation to enforce the provisions of this article. [26 August 1920.] ARTICLE XXI. Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed. Section 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited. Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by convention in the everal States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission thereof to the States by the Congress. [5 December 1933.] ARTICLE XXVI. Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age. Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. [circa 1970/1971.] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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