December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Libel, Times v. Sullivan
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970201:1452, Greg Broiles <gbroiles(a)netbox.com> said: +Since we've now got Jim Bell arguing that it's obvious that a free and +open society must tolerate anything which might be defamatory, and Jim +Choate arguing that it's obvious that a free and open society cannot +tolerate anything which might be defamatory, ... for what it is worth, anti-defamation, Germany's anti-Holocaust denial, and anti- just about anything legislation … [View More]dealing with free speech is of and by its very nature an abridgement of your personal freedoms. If you deny one form of speech, it is easy to deny another, and then another... do you wish to march foolishly to Fahrenheit 451? Before the current generation of government vipers and revisionists remove or rewrite even more of the immortal words of history: "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." --Abraham Lincoln let's look at one more famous speech on "nibbling" your rights: "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter. "Let us remember that 'if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom.' It is a very serious consideration that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event." --Samuel Adams ("patriot, statesman..."), speech, 1771 and: "The more difficult it is to interact with the government, the more the government wants gun control." --attila in other words, the more they deny our inaliable right to free speech, the more they need gun control before we rise against the usurpers of our rights. Now, if there ever was a liberal do-gooder, Eleanor certainly was: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." --Eleanor Roosevelt now, does she mean what she says literally? in other words, is she saying to say what you want, and she will not be harmed or "feel inferior" in this case? I can presume Eleanor could be offended, but is that sufficient to abridge your rights? Nietzsche expresses a defiant tone on first glance -no, the general interpretation is absolute freedom --speech included. "I understand by 'freedom of Spirit' something quite definite - the unconditional will to say No, where it is dangerous to say No." --Friedrich Nietzsche Is not the right to bear arms the same basic freedom as free speech, with one limitation: improper use carries criminal penalties --basically, because the act denies another his freedom. "The right of self-defense is the first law of nature ...and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." --St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries did not the Magna Carta guarantee the right of free speech? Of course, there was not full suffrage at that time, but the Magna Carta is the basis of our common law. Then, let's look at another concept of freedom and a "democracy" Just because a mob calls itself a government, doesn't make it so. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. People who claim that money doesn't matter, are usually living on someone else's money. Society is a mental construct, formed by those people who are too insecure to handle the concept of people as individuals. which gets down to just what the hell did my forefathers, and maybe yours, fight for in 1776 if it was not for freedom of speech and assembly, the right to bear arms, to be free from unreasonable search and seizure; and enjoy the protection of law? if we do not pick up that fight and stop corrupt governments from usurping the power of the people, we will lose all freedom. If we give in on _any_ of the first 10 amendments, our Bill of Rights, we are surrendering our deserved personal franchise to a usurping government. and it starts with society and government trying to tell us what we can freely say. I may not like what you have to say, or that you insult my sensibilities or my rectitude, but I will defend your right to my death so that you may do so. Therefore: "With heart and hand I pledge you while I load my gun again, you will never be forgotten or the enemy forgiven, my good comrade..." --Anton Szandor LaVay -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMvRHa704kQrCC2kFAQE9dgP8D+q2ZFytBzdgWDh+QdtunUa8nqhopHrS OVc5yWkG+UJzcVhtRFyu5O4nhSkgzhjbiGxYUWM1ZNZwaIDehFmieCv8GG/c+Cal 0BHWha5cHqL0pEiFs/NTWAVoVGfPZl2jcikViXMRAqt8mmXmbC3bxPjBtlfnTzmB yTZ51fvB3tU= =aTWw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- [View Less]

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Digital Telephony Act
by koontzd＠lrcs.loral.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Whats going to happen when direct satellite phone service becomes a reality ( as in the joint Loral/Qualcomm effort ) ? When one notes that it is difficult to impossible to prevent service stealing in the cellular environment, how will it be prevented in direct broadcast? It might not be possible to detect unauthorized encryption schemes without direct monitoring. Do the Feds think this is can be won?

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RE: Cyphernomicon by Tim May
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Toto I am not speaking of the sheep-mentality in regard to moderation or any other single issue on the list. I am speaking of the tendency of many list-members to fall into common ruts of thought wherein the comments and opinions of others are auto-files as this-or-that, and interpreted in that light, no matter what the actual content of their messages. ................................................ Hm, well, what's an anarchist to do about other people's psychological makeup? = … [View More]

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IRS Can't Compete
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Note proof that government agencies are running up against serious problems competing with market actors even though they have the guns. - From today's NYT: February 1, 1997 Leaders of I.R.S. Panel Urge Sweeping Overhaul of Agency By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON The IRS had publicly defended its management of computer modernization until Thursday, when Arthur A. Gross, who was hired last year as an assistant commissioner of the agency to rescue the effort, told … [View More]

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RE: Libel, Times v. Sullivan
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Attila T. Hun, member of the Early Bird Consortium of Stray Cats, quoting from the Pages of History: did not the Magna Carta guarantee the right of free speech? Of course, there was not full suffrage at that time, but the Magna Carta is the basis of our common law. [and...] which gets down to just what the hell did my forefathers, and maybe yours, fight for in 1776 if it was not for freedom of speech and assembly, the right to bear arms, to be free from … [View More]

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IRS Can't Compete
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Note proof that government agencies are running up against serious problems competing with market actors even though they have the guns. - From today's NYT: February 1, 1997 Leaders of I.R.S. Panel Urge Sweeping Overhaul of Agency By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON The IRS had publicly defended its management of computer modernization until Thursday, when Arthur A. Gross, who was hired last year as an assistant commissioner of the agency to rescue the effort, told … [View More]

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RE: Libel, Times v. Sullivan
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Attila T. Hun, member of the Early Bird Consortium of Stray Cats, quoting from the Pages of History: did not the Magna Carta guarantee the right of free speech? Of course, there was not full suffrage at that time, but the Magna Carta is the basis of our common law. [and...] which gets down to just what the hell did my forefathers, and maybe yours, fight for in 1776 if it was not for freedom of speech and assembly, the right to bear arms, to be free from … [View More]

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Re: Cyphernomicon by Tim May
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

blanc wrote: > From: Toto > Hm, well, what's an anarchist to do about other people's psychological > makeup? Hold up a mirror. > Not that I'm condoning centralized management, but I bet I could flame > anyone pretty good yet by-pass the moderator. It's all in the style, you > know. Some people are very delicate about what offends them - I know I > could get on some particular people's nerves any day without trying. An > opportunist can take advantage of … [View More]another's infirmity by being perfectly > polite while yet excruciatingly annoying. What constitutes a 'flame' seems to depend heavily on whose mouth it comes out of. Jim Choate called me a schizophrenic, and it seemed to be acceptable enough to make the censored list. He tends to call people "Bessie", basically saying they are a Cow, and that also seems acceptable. Personally, I could care less when people want to play footsie-games with flaming, but I think it points out the ludicrousness of having a moderator limiting people to 'childish' insults. I prefer someone screaming at me what a cocksucker I am. Ray Hettinga forwards these long, literate missives advertising this-or-that million dollar a plate conferences, but when he chose to insult me with his own words, the result was an immature blathering which showed questionable literary skills. > Oh, I wasn't condemning Tim's posts as being repetitive and boring - it's > commendable that he would write about the same ideas in fresh new ways, for > the benefit of the newbies and the entertainment of the oldies. > But not everyone is as interested & willing (or have the time) to > re-iterate this way, and with only one or a few "holding up the ship", so > to speak, it leaves a lot of room for wayless bickering degenerating into > unproductive ad hominems - ad absurdum, ad nauseam. There are some good socio/politico posts by a variety of list members who are highly knowlegeable about a range of topics surrounding crypto, but they tend to come sporadically. I suppose that this is because they actually have real lives. > You, know, Toto, I heard that there's a vacancy in the Cypherpunk Division > of History & Philosophy .... I suppose that Sandy might nominate me, just for the pleasure of sitting back and enjoying the flood of, "A Vote of FUCK OFF for Toto" postings. It would be nice, however, to try to twist the rest of the list around to my own world-view. It gets lonely here in the 'rubber room' at the Home, and I could use some company. Toto [View Less]

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Re: Trigger-Words...
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, harka(a)nycmetro.com queried: > Actually, I might not have chosen the correct words for what I > wanted... > I am looking for sniffer-programs, that analyze e-mail traffic on > the Net and filtering out all e-mails potentially interesting for > _intelligence services_. For example, I've heard, that if an e-mail > contains the words: "assassinate President" (DISCLAIMER: I hope, our > President lives a long and happy … [View More]

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Re: Key Security Question
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) writes: > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> writes: > > > On the other hand, if the "repairman" replaced your pgp executable > > > with version 2.6.3kgb, which uses your hashed passphrase as the > > > session key, you're hosed. Or if he installed a keystroke sniffer, > > > or added a small radio transmitter to your keyboard, or whatever. > > > Depends … [View More]

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Re: Trigger-Words...
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, harka(a)nycmetro.com queried: > Actually, I might not have chosen the correct words for what I > wanted... > I am looking for sniffer-programs, that analyze e-mail traffic on > the Net and filtering out all e-mails potentially interesting for > _intelligence services_. For example, I've heard, that if an e-mail > contains the words: "assassinate President" (DISCLAIMER: I hope, our > President lives a long and happy … [View More]

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No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Someone using the Huge Cajones mailer wrote: David Lesher <wb8foz(a)nrk.com> writes: > USPS uses key locks seemingly designed by Ben Franklin himself. > Look at them someday. FedEx boxes used to have Simplex 926 > 5 pushbutton ""locks"" if you stretch the point. Still did last I checked. Don't let the old-fashioned look deceive you. Most mail storage boxes use lever tumbler locks (similar to what's used in safe deposit vaults, though obviously the … [View More]

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Re: Cyphernomicon by Tim May
by Asgaard 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Declan McCullagh wrote: >That question is one for Tim to answer, but I should point out that TC May hasn't posted in a month or so. I miss his posts. Without any official role he was the de facto moderator, mostly by example but also by pointing out the core of the issues when things went astray, for all those years. Did he mention going away for so long in any of his latest posts? I remember 'for the holiday season' but that is long gone. I hope he hasn't left the list … [View More]

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Re: Keystroke sniffer question
by Z.B. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Scott wrote: > How can you detect if there is a keystroke sniffer on your computer. > All sniffers have to write to disk at some point. You can detect one by checking to see how much disk space you have (DIR on MSDOS), typing a few lines of random characters, and check your disk space again. If it's gone down a little, then you probably have one. > Is there a file name to look for? Try checking in your TEMP directory...the few ones that I've seen default … [View More]

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Re: If guilty of a lesser crime, you can be sentenced for a greater
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:56 AM 2/2/97 -0500, Black Unicorn wrote: >Please note that the difference between: > >"But he got the same sentence as he would have if he was convicted of >carrying a gun in furtherance of the crime." > >and > >"But he got the same sentence as he would have is he was not convicted of >carrying a gun in furtherance of the crime." > >is subtle at best. > >Next time don't get caught stealing with a gun nearby. Better yet, set up a system to … [View More]

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National Cryptologic School
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DAW provided this URL: http://csrc.nist.gov/training/in170.zip 1996-04-29 Introduction to Computer Security National Cryptologic School Interactive Courseware Trainee Guide (formerly, CP-133) (37 zipped files, DOS program) We've had a look at this course, a primer on CompSec and a required course for all DoD employees. It takes some fiddling to get past the sign-on block. Hint: after unzipping execute "student.exe" and enter "CP" as the lesson. Repeat for other listed files,… [View More]

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Re: Geiger and long, unreadable lines
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dimitri Vulis <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> writes on cpunks-flames: > Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes on cpunks-flames: > > > > Mr William H. Geiger III "Author of E-Secure" writes on cpunks: > > > <sigh> for the benifit of those misfortunate enough to be still working on > > > dumb terminals I have disabled my PGP script until I have time to add a > > > word wrap routine to it. > > > > <sigh> it is you who were … [View More]demonstrating your ineptitude by spewing > > 120+ line length postings. Why is it so difficult for you to keep > > under 80 chars? Would you like some technical assistance? Notice how > > near every one else apart from yourself is managing to keep under 80 > > chars? > > Notice how near every one else apart from yourself bends over for the NSA, > and is willing to use a 40-bit key "escrowed" with the feds? Why is it so > difficult for you to keep under 40 bits? Would you like some technical > assistance? Why are you setting yourself apart from the Internet community > that so happily embraces GAK? Why do you desire "privacy" for your traffic > when everyone else does not? What have you got to hide? Are you looking to > transmit child pornography, bomb-making instructions, and/or cannabis > legalization propaganda? We better have a look at your hard disk soon. btw Dimitri, a crypto question: Diffie-Hellman key generation, there are two main ways of generating the diffie-hellman prime modulus, method 1: p = 2q+1 where q is a prime also. And method 2: p = r.2q+1 where q is a prime and r is a randomly generated number. With method 1, the security parameter is the size of p in bits (or size of q, as they are related). With method 2, there are two security parameters, size of q and size of p in bits. Method 2 has the advantage that key generation is faster as it is quicker to generate new random numbers r, than to repeatedly generate trial prime q as you have to do in method 1. However is the security weaker in method 2? What size of p and q do you have to use to get the same security as for same size of p in bits as in method 1? What should be the relationship between the size of p and q? (this isn't cpunks, this is cpunks-flames, so your non-crypto pledge shouldn't hold, besides Sandy has a stated policy of killing the whole thread, so I thought it amusing to continue your crypto relevance in moving on to technical topics rather than political) Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc` [View Less]

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Re: If guilty of a lesser crime, you can be sentenced for a greater
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:56 AM 2/2/97 -0500, Black Unicorn wrote: >Please note that the difference between: > >"But he got the same sentence as he would have if he was convicted of >carrying a gun in furtherance of the crime." > >and > >"But he got the same sentence as he would have is he was not convicted of >carrying a gun in furtherance of the crime." > >is subtle at best. > >Next time don't get caught stealing with a gun nearby. Better yet, set up a system to … [View More]

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Re: PGP 2.1
by Mark Henderson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Larry Johnson writes: > Hello, > Can any;one tell me how to get a version of PGP 2.1? > Thanks > If you are a U.S./Canadian person in the U.S. or Canada you can get 2.1 and most of the release versions of PGP from ftp://ftp.wimsey.com/pub/crypto Easiest thing is to point your web browser to ftp://ftp.wimsey.bc.ca/pub/crypto/software/README.html Then after reading and agreeing to the conditions, click in the appropriate place and descend into the PGP directory. But, why do you … [View More]

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National Cryptologic School
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DAW provided this URL: http://csrc.nist.gov/training/in170.zip 1996-04-29 Introduction to Computer Security National Cryptologic School Interactive Courseware Trainee Guide (formerly, CP-133) (37 zipped files, DOS program) We've had a look at this course, a primer on CompSec and a required course for all DoD employees. It takes some fiddling to get past the sign-on block. Hint: after unzipping execute "student.exe" and enter "CP" as the lesson. Repeat for other listed files,… [View More]

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RE: Libel, Times v. Sullivan
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970202:0457 blanc <blancw(a)cnw.com> said: +Yes, if the Magna Carta guaranteed a right and the forefathers fought +to secure it, why should any of us ever have to lift a finger in our +own defense. seems to me Jefferson said it took a rebellion every 20 years or so to keep democracy awake... other than presuming your answer is tongue in cheek (not elsewhere), complacency == welfare. +My contribution to this thread from … [View More]

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My Departure, Moderation, and "Ownership of the List"
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A couple of people have sent me pinging messages, asking about my status on the Cypherpunks list....apparently it has taken several weeks for folks to notice my absence! :-} This may speak volumes about why I have left the list, and what the list has become..... I chose not to write a "departing flame" (or message, but some might call it a flame) when I unsubscribed several weeks ago--within an hour of reading that John and Sandy had decided to make "their" list a moderated list, by the way--… [View More]as I saw little benefit. I was also fed up with things, and saw no point in wasting even more of my time arguing against the New Cypherpunks World Order, as the NCWO was clearly presented as a fait accompli, not something ablut which opinions of list members (or even list _founders_, at least not me) were being sought. It's my nature to just say "Fuck it" and leave when I feel I have overstayed my time, or things are no longer fun, or I am made to feel unwelcome. But since several people have pinged me, asking about my status, I'll take some time to say a few things. I've had access to the hks.net archive site, and/or the Singapore site, to occasionally see what was being said on the list (old habits die slowly, so I sometimes drop in to see what you people are flaming each other about...not surprisingly--in fact utterly predictably--I see vast amounts of bandwidth consumed by arguments about moderation, about the putative biases of the Moderator and Director of the New Cypherpunks World Order, about alternative moderation strategies (which is stupid, as John and Sandy announced what they were going to do, not just some of their preliminary thoughts), and so on. I've also noticed fewer substantive essays. With no false modesty I tried awfully hard to compose substantive essays on crypto-political topics, often more than one per day. (Others did too, but they seem to be tapering off as well, leaving the list to be dominated by something called a "Toto," the "O.J. was framed!" ravings of Dale Thorn, the love letters between Vulis and someone name Nurdane Oksas, and the occasional bit of crypto news. Ho hum. I'm glad I'm not reading the list in e-mail, and thus can easily avoid replying to these inanities...which would probably not be approved for reading by Sandy, so why bother anyway?) Rather than compose a traditional essay, I'll take the easy way out and list some bulleted points. * First, I don't argue that John Gilmore is unfree to do as he wishes with his machine, toad, which has been the major machine host for the Cypherpunks list. John can tell us we have to write in Pig Latin if he wishes. Much of the debate I saw in the archives was debate that missed the point about what John could and couldn't do. No one can seriously question the right of the owner of a machine, or the owner of a restaurant, etc., to set the policies he wishes. The owner of a restaurant is perfectly free--or used to be, and still is to anyone with even slightly libertarian or freedom tendencies--to set the rules of his "house." He may insist that shirts and shoes be worn, or that smoking is not allowed (or even is required, in theory), etc. He may say "All those eating in my restaurant must wear funny hats and have their costumes approved by Sandy Sandfort." This is unexceptionable. * However, anyone who disputes these rules (disputes in the sense of disliking or disagreeing with them, not legally challenging them) is free to leave. Those who don't like crowded, noisy, smoke-filled sports bars are encourgaged to leave. And so on. Again, unexceptionable. (The more complicated case of contracts, verbal or written, and "changing the rules," does not apply here. No one had a contract with John, or Sandy, or Hugh, etc., so this is not germane.) * But the really important issue is this: is the _physical hosting_ of the Cypherpunks mailing list coterminous with the "Cypherpunks"? If the list was hosted by, say, UC Berkeley or PGP Incorporated, would we consider these hosts to be the "owners" of the Cypherpunks group? Would we think that a corporate host, say, would have the authority to direct what we could say on the list? (Again, not disputing their corporate property rights...as a libertarian, I cannot. Other issues are what I'm getting at.) * If a Boy Scout troop meets at a local church, and has for several years, continuously, would we consider the church to be the owner of the troop? Could the church insist on avoidance of certain "cuss words" and demand that prayers be said before each gathering? Certainly the church could tell the troop what policies were to be followed if the the facilities were to be used, etc., and the troop could leave if it didn't like the terms (or, in parallel with my situation, any troop member could choose to leave....). This is what we mean by "property rights": the legal right of a property owner to do with his property as he wishes, modulo prior contractual relationships, criminal laws, etc. * How did the mailing list for the group, now called Cypherpunks, get started, and how did it end up being run off of John's hardare? Hugh Daniel got the actual mailing list rolling, based on a discussion Eric Hughes, Hugh, and I had the day after the first physical meeting, in September 1992. We thought the group we had just spent the day with ought to be able to stay in touch, and that a mailing list was the right way to go. There was talk of siting it on the UC Berkeley computers (actually, the Undergraduate Association computers, a la the Cypherpunks archive site at "csua"), but Hugh thought he might be able to use "toad," and this is what happened. (I have not heard from Hugh on his views of this New and Moderated Non-Anarchic List.) * I think we should all be very grateful to John for agreeing to let it run on his hardware, but not let our gratitude turn into some sort of subservience and blather about how John "owns" the Cypherpunks group. * Again, is the "Cyherpunks community" the same as the mailing list? And is the mailing list, hosted at toad, the "property" of John Gilmore? * In my view, neither John nor Sandy in any sense "own" our group. It is a virtual community which sometimes has physical meetings at various places (including corporations, restaurants, and bookstores, none of which are even partial "owners" of the group) and which has had several instantiations on the Net, including sub-lists not connected to toad.com in any way. While John is of course free at any time to suspend his hosting of the list, I think it a serious misapprehension of the basic nature of virtual communities to accept the claim that John should decide on what is appropriate to bear the "Cypherpunks" list imprimatur and what is to be consigned to the flame list. * The mechanics of the announcement troubled me greatly. To be blunt, I was seething with anger. I was mightily annoyed to read that John had made a decision to appoint Sandy as his Moderator, with no discussion on the list. I don't know if Eric Hughes and Hugh Daniel were asked their opinions, but I certainly know I was not. I feel that as one of the two or three founders, depending on how one is counting, and as a frequent contributor to the list since its inception, and so on, I (and others) should at least have been told of this plan. Better yet, have the plans discussed on the list, as some good ideas may have been generated. I'll have more to say about my problems with how things were handled. Frankly, it smacked of the same kind of fait accompli decision John made with the unsubscribing of Vulis. While John had (and has) every legal right to do with his property as he wished, the effect was very negative. First, Vulis found other ways to post (duh). Second, the list was consumed with flames about this, many from Vulis, and many from others. Third, journalists (who love sizzle over substance any day of the week) lept into the fray with articles which gave Vulis the publicity he craved. Fourth, it sent a message to enemies of liberty that "Even the Cypherpunks have found it necessary to abandon their anarchic ways." (I'm well aware of the issues with pests like Vulis, who seek to destroy virtual communities like ours. But the solution John used did not work, and generated more crap. As you all should know, it was John himself who coined the wonderful saying, "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." A delicious irony.) * In the archives, I did see a bunch of "I support Sandy" and "John is our leader" comments from reasonable people. The obvious noise of Vulis and his cohorts like Aga made a "Do something!" attitude somewhat understandable. I don't think the decision made was a wise one, and I strongly doubt it will work to make the list a better one. * The proper solution to bad speech is more speech, not censorship. Censorship just makes opponents of "speech anarchy" happy--it affirms their basic belief that censors are needed. * "Censorship" is another overloaded term. I don't think the "Definition 1" of dictionary definitions, about _governmental_ restrictions, is the only meaningful definition. Everybody knows what it meant when we say that "Lockheed is censoring the views of employees," even though we know Lockheed is not using government power. A censor is one who censors. And even my "American Heritage Dictionary" gives this as its "definition 1": "censor n. 1. A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable." (Other dictionaries of course give similar definitions. The notion that censors are confined to being government employees is a misconception.) * OK, even given that John had decided to censor "his" list, what about his choice of Sandy Sandfort as the censor? I've known Sandy for several years (I was the one who invited him to the second Cypherpunks meeting), but he's a poor choice as a censor, moderator, whatever. First, because he has so often gotten involved in protracted flame wars, such as with Vulis (remember the dozens of messages about the "bet" to bring Vulis out? I stayed out of the charade completely.), with Hallam-Baker, and with others. Second, because he has not been actively composing essays for a while, perhaps because of his job with Community Connexion. Other reasons, too. (I count Sandy as a friend, but I'm just being honest here. Sandy is just not a "Peter Neumann" (moderator of the "RISKS" list). * Nor do the announced criteria make any sense. While the inane one-line scatological insults have been filtered out, many "flames" make it through, based on what I've seen in perusing the hks archive site. And some reasonable comments get dumped in the flame bucket. * As expected, those who only want to talk about cryptography (but who rarely do, themselves, also as expected) waste bandwidth saying the "anarchist" and "libertarian" stuff ought to go in to the "rejected" list. More bandwidth wasted, as each group lobbies to have its ideological opponents censored by Sandy. * I would have had no problem had John announced that he was creating a new list, the "Good Stuff" list, with Sandy has his Chooser of Good Stuff. After all, both Eric Blossom and Ray Arachelian already offer just such lists, and more would not hurt. But by making the _main list_ the censored one, this skewed things considerably. * (Frankly, one of my considerations in leaving was the feeling that I would never know if an essay I'd spent hours composing would be rejected by Sandy for whatever reasons....maybe he might think my essay was off-topic, or used one of the Seven Deadly Words, or was "too flamish." Whatever. I realized that life is too short to have Sandy Sandfort deciding whether my essays should go out to the main list (which is really just a list like Eric Blossom's best-of list, except it is be edict now the main list) or be dumped into the flames list, to be read by a handful of people.) * Why, many reasonable people may ask, did I not simply unsubscribe from the "Cypherpunks" list and subscribe to the "Cypherpunks-Unedited) (or whatever it is called) list? Because of my overall anger with the issues raised above. The imperiousness of the decision, the notion of favoring Sandy's tastes in a more "first class" way than, say, the tastes of Eric Blossom, Ray Arachelian, or, for that matter, me. "Some censors are more equal than others." * The decision to "moderate" (censor) the Cypherpunks list is powerful ammunition to give to our opponents, and Vulis is certainly gleeful that his fondest wishes have been realized. And it won't work. People are consuming even more bandwidth arguing the merits of John's decision, the traffic is presumably being slowed down by the need for Sandy to wade through the traffic and stamp "Approved" or "Rejected" on what he glances at, and people are "testing the limits" of what they can say and what they can't say. * It also sends a message that people are incapable of filtering out bad speech, that they need a censor to do it for them. (Again, I have no problem with competing "screeners," a la having Ray, Eric, or David Sternlight filtering what they think is OK and what is not. Let a thousand filtering services bloom.) But the clear message by having Sandy censor the main list (the default list, the list name with the main name, the list we all know about, etc.) is that Cypherpunks need Big Brother to shelter them from Bad Thoughts, from Naughty Words, from Evil Flames, and from Impure Desires. Foo on that. * Psychologists might point to random reinforcement, even to the effects of terror. How many of us are likely to write controversial posts knowing that Sandy might wake up having a "bad hair day" and thus reject our posts? How many will begin to skew their opinions to match those of Sandy? (I would venture a guess that a Duncan Frissell would almost certainly get a libertarian rant past Sandy while a Phill Hallam-Baker might easily fail to get a leftist rant past him.) * Those who want "less noise" should subcontract with the filter services of their own choosing. This is the "Cypherpunk Way." Having Sandy as the censor is the easy way out. * By the way, the moderated list "RISKS" works pretty well. But it is not a _discussion_ group. It is, rather, a digest of news items related to computer and technology risks, with some discussion by various contributors, and with a long turnaround time of a few issues per week, tops. Peter Neumann also devotes a lot of time to making it run smoothly and bases part of his professional career on running it. I surmise that Sandy is not prepared to do the same. Nor would this be a good idea, as this would kill the spirit of the debate. * Had there been a debate about the policy, I can think of several approaches I'd like better. But inasmuch as John made it clear that there would be no debate (and, perhaps as part of the "problem," John has not really been a active member of the mailing list, in terms of participating in the debates), this is all moot. In any case, my several years with the list have taken a huge amount of my time. Given the way this whole thing was handled, and the way the list is degenerating even further, it looks like it's good that I'm moving on to other things. * To summarize: - the decision to censor the list was made without any discussion on the list, without any discussion with at least some of the longterm core contributors, and was presented as a "fait accompli." - while John has every right to do with his hardware as he wishes, he does not "own" the Cypherpunks group (though whether he owns the "list" is a semantically debatable point) - whatever our group once was, or still is, is not dependent on having a particular mailing list running on someone's home machine...and it cannot be claimed that any person "owns" the Cypherpunks group. - there is some talk of creating another Cypherpunks list, on other machines; I don't know whether or not this will fly, or if I'll devote any time to such lists. - the effect of censorship, such as I have seen it so far, is not producing a better list. In fact, as I would have expected, it is producing a more boring and sheltered list. And so there you have it. I had no plans to set down my views, feeling it was a waste of my time and your time. Rather than foam and rant the way some did (and Vulis must have posted 100 messages on the subject), I chose to simply make my exit, quickly. But as I have recently seen several mentions of my absence (including a particularly complimentary comment from Asgaard--thanks), I do feel I owe it to you all to explain my views. Which I have done. Have a nice year, and a nice millenium in a couple of years. --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." [View Less]

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Electronic Funds Transfer without stealing PIN/TAN
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Sender: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com Reply-To: Rachel Willmer <rachel(a)intertrader.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: Bulk Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:03:25 +0000 From: Rachel Willmer <rachel(a)intertrader.com> To: Multiple recipients of <e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com> Subject: Electronic Funds Transfer without stealing PIN/TAN --- From RISKS digest --- Date: 1 Feb 1997 05:12:02 GMT From: weberwu(a)tfh-berlin.de (Debora Weber-Wulff) Subject: Electronic Funds … [View More]Transfer without stealing PIN/TAN The Berlin newspaper "Tagespiegel" reports on 29 Jan 97 about a television show broadcast the previous evening on which hackers from the Chaos Computer Club demonstrated how to electronically transfer funds without needing a PIN (Personal Identification Number) or TAN (Transaction Number). Apparently it suffices for the victim to visit a site which downloads an ActiveX application, which automatically starts and checks to see if Quicken, a popular financial software package that also offers electronic funds transfer, is on the machine. If so, Quicken is given a transfer order which is saved by Quicken in its pile of pending transfer orders. The next time the victim sends off the pending transfer orders to the bank (and enters in a valid PIN and TAN for that!) all the orders (= 1 transaction) are executed -> money is transferred without the victim noticing! The newspaper quotes various officials at Microsoft et al expressing disbelief/outrage/"we're working on it". We discussed this briefly in class looking for a way to avoid the problem. Demanding a TAN for each transfer is not a solution, for one, the banks only send you 50 at a time, and many small companies pay their bills in bunches. Having to enter a TAN for each transaction would be quite time-consuming. Our only solution would be to forbid browsers from executing any ActiveX component without express authorization, but that rather circumvents part of what ActiveX is intended for. A small consolation: the transfer is trackable, that is, it can be determined at the bank to which account the money went. Some banks even include this information on the statement, but who checks every entry on their statements... Debora Weber-Wulff, Technische Fachhochschule Berlin, Luxemburger Str. 10, 13353 Berlin GERMANY weberwu(a)tfh-berlin.de <http://www.tfh-berlin.de/~weberwu/> -- Rachel Willmer, Intertrader Ltd, Cova House, 4 John's Place, Edinburgh Email: rachel(a)intertrader.com Tel: +44 131 555 8450 Fax: +44 131 555 8451 Sun Internet Associate and winner of 1996 SMART Award for Innovation "We develop Java Commerce Solutions" --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/ [View Less]

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Re: Lucifer
by winsock＠rigel.cyberpass.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Deflated Vermin K`adaver'OTM has been fired for masturbating in front of his boss. o o --/-- <~\ Deflated Vermin K`adaver'OTM __\ _/\

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None [ANNOUNCEMENT] Secure envelopes
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim C[rook] May's aberrant sexual life has negatively impacted his mental integrity. ,,, -ooO(o o)Ooo- Tim C[rook] May (_)

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Re: [OFF-TOPIC] Newt's phone calls
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dipshit Viscera K<rap> Of The Month will fuck anything that moves, but he'd rather be fucking his own mother's dead body. ^-^-^-@@-^-^-^ (..) Dipshit Viscera K<rap> Of The Month

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Re: Key Security Question
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.24

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RE: Libel, Times v. Sullivan
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Attila T. Hun +Yes, if the Magna Carta guaranteed a right and the forefathers fought +to secure it, why should any of us ever have to lift a finger in our +own defense. seems to me Jefferson said it took a rebellion every 20 years or so to keep democracy awake... other than presuming your answer is tongue in cheek (not elsewhere), complacency == welfare. ......................................................... Definitely tongue-in-cheek. Just noting that if a thing … [View More]

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Alan Barrett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 18 Feb 1997, Bryan Reece wrote: > Filtering out other gateways' messages will reduce load at > the possible expense of delay (assuming a smallish network of news > servers that feed each other the list; obviously the message will > flood the majordomo net before it floods the real usenet unless > something is seriously broken). Why is it obvious that mail propagation will be faster than news propagation? News propagation times of small numbers of seconds are not at all … [View More]

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Any more like www.anonymizer.com ??
by Edgar W Swank 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone have a list of web proxies for anonymous surfing? I already know about www.anonymizer.com, and there was a "canadianizer" that would alter text to make it more "Canadian", but that is now apparently defunct. Reason I need to know, a friend in a foreign country has to deal with a web proxy that blocks "objectionable" sites including www.anonymizer, so some alternates that might not be blocked would be welcome. Edgar W. Swank <EdgarSwank(a)Juno.com> (… [View More]

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Re: DES and RSA crypto hardware from the free world
by Dan Geer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

These chips look *very* promising. Who needs Clipper, or HP's Clipper-under-another-name, when you can get triple DES from the free world at prices like this? The critical thing is to get the horse out of the barn before the door is barred. Each and every one of these sorts of vendors has to establish use and distribution on a wide basis before governments of any stripe start locking down on domestic use. There is little time and, yes, I am a paranoid who hopes thereby to survive. --dan

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Alan Barrett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >Why is it obvious that mail propagation will be faster than news > >propagation? News propagation times of small numbers of seconds are not > >at all uncommon. > > News propagation in seconds to your _local server_, or to _distant_ > servers? To some (perhaps many, certainly not all) distant servers, provided all the news servers in the path run appropriate software (designed for low latency propagation) and have reasonably high bandwidth Internet links. Disk … [View More]

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Alan Barrett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: >> obviously the message will flood the majordomo net before it floods >> the real usenet unless something is seriously broken). I replied: > Why is it obvious that mail propagation will be faster than news > propagation? News propagation times of small numbers of seconds are > not at all uncommon. Sorry, I misunderstood the earlier message. I thought that it referred to news propagation between a small set of hosts versus mail propagation between the … [View More]

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alt.cypherpunks.ebonics
by Alec 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Igor, A friend, who, in the CP tradition requested to remain anonymous, and I were doing an informal analysis of those subjects/topics which over the past year generated the most discussion and, by implication, interest on the CP list. Since the list at that time was reportedly unmoderated, we felt some weight should be given to members' interests/desires as measured by their posts, regardless of the applicability to the list topic. With the exceptions of … [View More]

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:35 PM +0200 2/18/97, Alan Barrett wrote: >On 18 Feb 1997, Bryan Reece wrote: >> Filtering out other gateways' messages will reduce load at >> the possible expense of delay (assuming a smallish network of news >> servers that feed each other the list; obviously the message will >> flood the majordomo net before it floods the real usenet unless >> something is seriously broken). > >Why is it obvious that mail propagation will be faster than news >… [View More]

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Military/Intelligence URL
by eickfarm＠alpha.shianet.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Return-Path: <owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com> >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 03:22:32 -0500 >From: harka(a)nycmetro.com >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Subject: Military/Intelligence URL >Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Precedence: bulk >X-UIDL: b0eef8d389443636415db00da7508d3f > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Here an page, that deals with various intelligence and military >institutions... > > > In> Subject: GOVT> AJAX, Government … [View More]and Military Intelligence > > In> http://204.180.198.56:80/ajax/ajax.htm > > In> United States and International Government Military and Intelligence > In> Agency Access > > In> Certain Locations Or Sections Thereof May Be Closed To > In> Unauthorized Use. > In> PLEASE READ ACCESS WARNINGS, IF ANY, AND ABIDE BY THEM. > In> (If You Prefer A Frameless Environment, Click HERE.) > In> Last update: 7 FEBRUARY 1997. All accesses verified at > In> time of inclusion. > > In> CIA Central Intelligence Agency > In> DIA Defense Intelligence Agency > In> NRO National Reconnaissance Office > In> NSA National Security Agency > In> SS Secret Service > In> USCSOI U.S. Customs Service Office of Investigation > > In> ATF Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms > In> BOP Federal Bureau of Prisons > In> CID U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command > In> COURTS U.S. Federal Courts > In> FBI Federal Bureau of Investigation > In> FINCEN Financial Crimes Enforcement Network > In> FLETC Federal Law Enforcement Training Center > In> MARSHALS U.S. Marshals Service > In> NIJ National Institute of Justice > In> ACC Air Combat Command > In> AFSPC Air Force Space Command > In> BMDO Ballistic Missile Defense Organization > In> DEFENSE Defense Department > In> DISA Defense Information Systems Agency > In> DRMS Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service > In> DTIC Defense Technical Information Center > In> JCS Joint Chiefs of Staff > In> NAVWAN Naval Aviation Systems Team Wide Area Network > In> NAWCWPNS Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division > In> NSWC Naval Surface Warfare Center > In> USAFA United States Air Force Academy > > In> AHPCRC Army High Performance Computing Research Center > In> ARPA Advanced Research Projects Agency > In> LABLINK U.S. Department of Defense Laboratory System > In> NRL The Naval Research Laboratory RL > In> USAF Rome Laboratory for C41 Technology > In> USACIL U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Laboratory > > In> NATGUARD Army and Air National Guards > In> USA United States Army > In> USAF United States Air Force > In> USCG United States Coast Guard > In> USMC United States Marine Corps > In> USN United States Navy > > In> EPA U.S. Environmental Protection Agency > In> FAA Federal Aviation Administration Technical Center > In> FCC Federal Communications Commission > In> FTC Federal Trade Commission > In> NMFS National Marine Fisheries Service > In> NRC Nuclear Regulatory Commission > In> SEC Securities and Exchange Commission > In> CDC Centers for Disease Control and Prevention > In> CENSUS U.S. Department of Commerce Bureau of the Census > In> CONGRESS U.S. House of Representatives > In> CUSTOMS U.S. Customs Service > In> DOE U.S. Department of Energy National Laboratories > In> & Programs > In> EXECUTIVE The White House > In> FDIC Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation > In> FEMA Federal Emergency Management Agency > In> FMS Financial Management Service > In> GPO U.S. Government Printing Office > In> GSA U.S. General Services Administration > In> HHS U.S. Department of Health and Human Services > In> HPCC NOAA High Performance Computing and > In> Communications IRS Internal Revenue Service > In> JUSTICE Justice Department > In> NARA National Archives and Records Administration > In> NASA National Aeronautics and Space Administration > In> NCDC National Climatic Data Center > In> NIMH National Institute of Mental Health > In> NOAA National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration > In> NSF National Science Foundation > In> NTIS National Technical Information Service > In> SBA Small Business Administration > In> SEL Space Environment Laboratory > In> STATE State Department > In> TREASURY Treasury Department > In> USCODE U.S. House of Representatives > In> Internet Law Library U.S. Code > > In> CANADA > In> CSE Communications Security Establishment > In> CISC Criminal Intelligence Service Canada > In> CSIS Canadian Security Intelligence Service > In> SIRC Security Intelligence Review Committee > In> UNITED KINGDOM CIM Central Intelligence Machinery > > In> CANADA > In> DJC Department of Justice of Canada > In> FORENSIC The Forensic Web > In> RCMP Royal Canadian Mounted Police > In> SGC Solicitor General of Canada > > In> UNITED NATIONS UNCPCJ United Nations Crime Prevention & > In> Criminal Justice > > In> CANADA > In> CFC Canadian Forces College > In> DREO Defense Research Establishment, Ottawa > > In> UNITED KINGDOM > In> ARMY The British Army > In> CDA Centre for Defence Analysis > In> DRA Defence Research Agency > > In> NATO North Atlantic Treaty Organization > In> SACLANT Supreme Allied Commander, Atlantic > In> SHAPE Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe > > In> BECCA Business Espionage Controls & Countermeasures > In> Association > In> CRYPTOLOG Internet Guide to Cryptography > In> DCJFTF Washington, D.C. Joint Fugitive Task Force > In> WANTED "The World's Most Wanted" (Fugitives and > In> Unsolved Crimes) > > >Ciao > >Harka > >/*************************************************************/ >/* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE ...more info at */ >/* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! --> http://www.eff.org */ >/* E-mail: harka(a)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail preferred) */ >/* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ >/* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ >/*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ >/* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ >/* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ >/*************************************************************/ > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.2 > >iQEVAgUBMv7aGjltEBIEF0MBAQF1CAf+MyLUa3sBKCAuxhzCZ0tQqP3jxAjQpIuV >WdsTCW9L3jPwLdZ9BmqeqAuaIU4JQzCpEx5bgKdzGThF5mG2U4XaeOcD4gBpWZyz >sYOZzcoYNe6CX6m55a9UqiEpZu4mK9TBkO7OXSfV3J3CygVAbo7zjC+lW2r7L9F8 >3vTqrxbOCb3SMEl4k3L5QVtKOGVSh7MMIesBtmQ2SNhhvSfrdFYBnCcvtmnvYi8j >6YpI5wrkiNzueuFwoD9YoRR7UugE5kcCyJ3FFHym7RzQUL8XsHRhsk1XoTBHvXni >2Tfno7DH5+T4FuVZTWeaAVhD7OTfK2n0lBCf0x2I5F1iEUurbdddig== >=s4om >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > >If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption... > > > > >------------------------------ **********WHY AM I RECEIVING 346 MESSAGES THAT ORIGINATED WITH CYPHERPUNKS(a)TOAD.COM? I AM UNABLE TO USE MY E=MAIL BECAUSE OF THE MESSAGES THAT HAVE ACCUMULATED. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE MESSAGES REFERENCES YOUR ORGANIZATION. I HAVE NEVER ACCESSED ANYTHING THAT HAD TO DO WITH YOUR GROUP. PLEASE ASSIST ME IN REMOVING THE ROUTING OF THESE MESSAGES TO MY E-MAIL. OTHERWISE, I WILL BE FORCED TO CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION TO THE INTERNET. THANK YOU. EICKFARM(a)SHIANET.ORG [View Less]

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Stop sending me your shit
by Robert Nadra 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Get me off your list or else ..... . Get me out your fuckin list assholes.

2 1

Re: Address -- Invalid (was Re: message to USSA Senate) (fwd)
by Lynne L. Harrison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: alexandr(a)win.tue.nl, cypherpunks(a)toad.com, home(a)collegehill.com Date: Tue Feb 18 13:49:43 1997 I checked with the people at College Hill Internet by forwarding your msg to them to which they replied. **N.B. - College Hill did my page so I know them to be reputable. Long story short, they worked on a web page for a particular political campaign and, during the process of … [View More]

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Stop sending me your shit
by Robert Nadra 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Get me off your list or else ..... . Get me out your fuckin list assholes.

1 0

Interesting question: how to safely keep passwords online
by Ed.Falk＠Eng.Sun.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's a question that's been on my mind lately: Often, you like to keep external passwords stored on your personal computer. As a quick example, Eudora will remember your POP password for you so you don't have to enter it every time. Obviously, Eudora keeps this on disk somewhere. The question is: is there any (relatively) safe way to do this? Obviously, Eudora encrypt the saved password with some secret key, but this key could probably be found by examining the code. A slight … [View More]

2 1

Re: Constitution and a Right to Privacy
by Vin McLellan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Marshall Clow wrote: >Let's not start this.... <snip> >If we are going to discuss privacy, that's fine. >It we are going to discuss abortion, there are better fora. Right, Marshall. I was attempting to respond directly to Tim's comment, but I too have no desire to let the end of C'punks be yet another sinkhole Abortion Debate. Foil at guard. I'll subside and let any riptide response roll over me;-). (Jeeze! Anyone else feel like these are the Final Days, … [View More]

2 1

article on "Wired News"
by Bryce 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "http://www.wired.com/news/" -- headline: " Monday Homeless Cypherpunks Turn to Usenet The 1,400-strong group splinters into three alt. subgroups and a mailing list - but they have plans for staying united. " "STAYING united"? Ha ha ha ha! That's funny! Keep in touch, y'all. :-) Bryce PGP sig follows -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i Comment: Auto-signed under Unix with 'BAP' Easy-PGP v1.1b2 … [View More]

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JSC Security Report
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Redefining Security," a 1994 report to the DoD and the CIA by The Joint Security Commission, offers bountiful information on US security strategies, policies, agencies, methodologies, and techniques, you name it, with designs for the future. http://jya.com/jcs.htm (454K) If you ever wanted to talk like the spooks, parrot this dictionary of NatSec ebonics.

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Why Digital Video Disks are late to market
by Martin Minow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://techweb.cmp.com/eet/news/97/942news/encryp.html To summarize, the Digital Video Disk standard contains an encryption standard for copyright and anti-piracy protection. however, "some U.S. PC and silicon vendors have just about abandoned hope of keeping to their revised launch schedules for DVD-enabled systems." ... as far as anybody knows, "none of the U.S. PC vendors today has a license to use the DVD-decryption algorithm" in software. "We all know the situation; we don't have a … [View More]

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Stop sending me your shit
by Robert Nadra 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Get me off your list or else ..... . Get me out your fuckin list assholes.

2 1

Re: Constitution and a Right to Privacy
by Marshall Clow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>(And I always thought the "woman's right to privacy" argument for abortion >>was flaky. Accepting such an argument, wouldn't infanticide be equally >>protected by a woman's right to privacy?) >> >>--Tim May > > Whoa! This begs a thoughful response, but I don't have time right >now. Might it suffice to suggest that a privacy claim -- a demand for >control over what concerns her, her alone, or (on balance) her more than >any other -- seems … [View More]

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Re: Any more like www.anonymizer.com ??
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- edgarswank(a)juno.com (Edgar W Swank) writes: > Does anyone have a list of web proxies for anonymous surfing? > > I already know about www.anonymizer.com, and there was a > "canadianizer" that would alter text to make it more "Canadian", > but that is now apparently defunct. There's a Zippifier (inserts Zippy the Pinhead quotes) at: http://www.metahtml.com/apps/zippy/welcome.mhtml Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never … [View More]

1 0

Stop sending me your shit
by Robert Nadra 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Get me off your list or else ..... . Get me out your fuckin list assholes.

1 0

Re: Address -- Invalid (was Re: message to USSA Senate) (fwd)
by Lynne L. Harrison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: alexandr(a)win.tue.nl, cypherpunks(a)toad.com, home(a)collegehill.com Date: Tue Feb 18 13:49:43 1997 I checked with the people at College Hill Internet by forwarding your msg to them to which they replied. **N.B. - College Hill did my page so I know them to be reputable. Long story short, they worked on a web page for a particular political campaign and, during the process of … [View More]

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:58 PM 2/17/97 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote: ... >It is a very good objections. I would like readers to speak up and say >their word for or against forwarding the list messages to >alt.cypherpunks. If a significant number of people objects (2-3 is >enough) I will disable this feature. As to my two cents, I like the idea, but would ask that the usenet feed have the scrambled address described by Cynthia H. Brown. I don't really care to have a box full of "YOU may HAVE JUST WON ONE … [View More]

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