December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here're wee additions to your archive: I subbed to cp-unedited from the first, so could compare the unedited messages with the edited. Some of mine(*) were edited, including a few on the Stronghold topic. But to me that's not as big a deal as some want to make of it. For example, in response to Tim's request to repost DV's Stronghold ploy, I did so, and it was edited. Sandy sent me a courteous email stating that he was not forwarding the message. I answered that that was okay with me because I thought that DV was using the issue as a ploy to undermine Sandy. Hey, there were no legal or other threats made to me, darn it! Another of my edited messages stated that there had been good discussion on the unedited list about DV's Denial of Service attack on Cypherpunks. Another noted that DV had been admirably successful in drawing others into his fight -- in support and in opposition -- as part of his DoS. Another questioned "Who's Censoring Who?" and offered the opinion that "censorship" rhetorically exaggerated Sandy's moderation. (I still believe that's the case.) For what it's worth, I oppose moderation, but favor experimentation, in the recognition that humans are near-endlessly adaptable and near- uncontrollable no matter what control mechanisms are employed -- anarchy is the norm whether advocated or not. So, I think the moderation experiment was a success, in that it has led to an unexpectedly constructive reconfiguration of Cypherpunks -- and not the last, that's for sure -- and showed that any archy is wishful dreaming of tortured hearts and minds and loins. A one hand applause to Dr. V and archy-demolishers for vibrating the c'punks house the way SATAN did bigger shoddy piles. Two hands to TCM for more memorable quaking of structure-bunkered c'punks and others. ----- * I'll supply copies of messages cited if you like.

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List of reliable remailers
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{"extropia"} = "<remail(a)miron.vip.best.com> cpunk pgp special"; $remailer{"mix"} = "<mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = "<remailer(a)replay.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{'alpha'} = '<alias(a)alpha.c2.org> alpha pgp'; $remailer{'nymrod'} = '<nymrod(a)nym.jpunix.com> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"lead"} = "<mix(a)zifi.genetics.utah.edu> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"exon"} = "<remailer(a)remailer.nl.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"haystack"} = "<haystack(a)holy.cow.net> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"lucifer"} = "<lucifer(a)dhp.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = "<remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = "<winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord"; $remailer{'nym'} = '<config(a)nym.alias.net> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"balls"} = "<remailer(a)huge.cajones.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"squirrel"} = "<mix(a)squirrel.owl.de> cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"middle"} = "<middleman(a)jpunix.com> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{'cyber'} = '<alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"dustbin"} = "<dustman(a)athensnet.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek mix reord middle ?"; $remailer{'weasel'} = '<config(a)weasel.owl.de> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"death"} = "<x(a)deathsdoor.com> cpunk pgp hash latent post"; $remailer{"reno"} = "<middleman(a)cyberpass.net> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"wazoo"} = "<remailer(a)wazoo.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"shaman"} = "<mix(a)mix.nymserver.com> cpunk mix pgp. hash latent cut"; catalyst(a)netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth(a)ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura(a)replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer(a)crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix) (weasel squirrel) The alpha and nymrod nymservers are down due to abuse. However, you can use the nym or weasel (newnym style) nymservers. The cyber nymserver is quite reliable for outgoing mail (which is what's measured here), but is exhibiting serious reliability problems for incoming mail. The squirrel and winsock remailers accept PGP encrypted mail only. 403 Permission denied errors have been caused by a flaky disk on the Berkeley WWW server. This seems to be fixed now. The penet remailer is closed. Last update: Mon 17 Feb 97 6:46:40 PST remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- wazoo remailer(a)wazoo.com ++++++++*+++ 37:37 100.00% nym config(a)nym.alias.net *#*##**++#*+ 4:23 99.99% winsock winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net -__.+-..---+ 7:52:03 99.93% cyber alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net ** *++++++*+ 35:11 99.89% dustbin dustman(a)athensnet.com .++--.+--- 2:08:12 99.85% weasel config(a)weasel.owl.de +++++++++++ 1:06:36 99.77% exon remailer(a)remailer.nl.com ***-* *#+# 4:10 99.62% squirrel mix(a)squirrel.owl.de + ++++++ + 1:04:02 99.05% haystack haystack(a)holy.cow.net #*##*+* **+ 20:23 98.49% reno middleman(a)cyberpass.net .++ -- +++ 1:16:02 98.36% lucifer lucifer(a)dhp.com +++++++ +++ 42:18 98.28% extropia remail(a)miron.vip.best.com -------- -- 5:19:42 98.21% middle middleman(a)jpunix.com ++++ + -- 2:16:10 97.36% replay remailer(a)replay.com ---+** ---* 1:27:53 88.59% balls remailer(a)huge.cajones.com ## *### *# 1:38 84.09% jam remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca ******* ** 8:25 82.44% shaman mix(a)mix.nymserver.com 11:03 22.27% mix mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com *+ 22:42:38 21.62% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien

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Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Bill Campbell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Everyone and his/her cousin has jumped into the void created when John Gilmore decided to pull the plug on toad.com. However, I'm very confused on just what to do at this point, my news server doesn't see alt.cypherpunks yet and if it did would probably lose about 75% of the posts if past performance is to be any indicator. (Or more accurately, would never get them, we seem to be a bottom feeder here in South Florida as far as the newsgroups go.) Has anyone composed a concise summary of just what the options are? Time is running out, I guess. Thanks in advance. =Bill=

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Dave Hayes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles writes: > At 01:13 PM 2/16/97 -0800, Dave Hayes wrote: > >I can also offer my participation in the distributed mailing list, if > >that is what it takes to get cypherpunks free of control interests again. > I think it would be more accurate to say that this is what it takes to get > cypherpunks into the hands of different control interests. Ok. If the legends about this list are true, then this is the ideal place to determine the feasability of removing -any- control interests. ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet The only person who needs a contract is one who cannot be trusted.

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Another test
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Another test

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suppressing duplicates based on MD5 of body
by Alan Barrett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It's been more than 30 hours since I sent the first copy of this message to cypherpunks(a)toad.com, and I still haven't seen it on either the moderated or the flames lists @toad.com. Suspecting that a particular naughty word was to blame, I inserted some hyphens and resent the message several hours later. That too has failed to reach me on either the moderated to the flames lists @toad.com. I am now kmtkujatwv to several other flavours of the list, and will be interested to see which (if any) get *this* message, in which the naughty word is encrypted using the well-known ROT-n algorithm, with a key that I will keep secret. Heres's a procmail recipe for suppressing duplicate messages based on the MD5 of a "normalised" version of the body of the messages. Folk who celcmbslo to more than one of the cypherpunks lists may find it useful. :0 * (Sender: |Return-Path: |Received:.*for.*)(owner-)?cypherpunks { # Detect duplicate messages based on MD5 of normalised body :0:.md5.lock * B ?? ? (m=`$HOME/bin/normalise-body | md5`; \ echo "Message-ID: <$m@MD5>" \ | formail -D 8192 .body-md5.cypherpunks.cache ) cypherpunks-duplicates :0: cypherpunks } The "* B ?? ?" means "send the body of the message as input to the following command, and test the command's exit status". $HOME/bin/normalise-body is a simple perl script (appended) that deletes trailing blanks on all lines and then deletes leading and trailing blank lines. --apb (Alan Barrett) # This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". Note, it may # create directories; files and directories will be owned by you and # have default permissions. # # This archive contains: # # normalise-body # echo x - normalise-body sed 's/^X//' >normalise-body << 'END-of-normalise-body' X#!/usr/bin/perl X X# A very weak attempt at normalising the body of a mail message. X# Removes trailing white space on all lines, and removes leading X# and trailing blank lines. X# Does not attempt to normalise any MIME content-transfer-encoding. X X$total_nonblank_lines = 0; X$consecutive_blank_lines = 0; Xwhile (<>) { X s/\s+$//; X if (/^$/) { X $consecutive_blank_lines++; X } else { X print "\n" x $consecutive_blank_lines if $total_nonblank_lines; X print $_; X $consecutive_blank_lines = 0; X $total_nonblank_lines++; X } X} END-of-normalise-body exit

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert Hettinga wrote: >> * I'll supply copies of messages cited if you like. > >Would you please, just so I could trash them myself this time. :-). OK. Here they are: ========================================================== Return-Path: cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com X-Sender: jya(a)pop.pipeline.com Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 17:23:14 -0500 To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> Subject: Re: More on Stronghold Charge - 1 Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com ---------- Return-Path: cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Disappearing articles? From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Comments: All power to the ZOG! Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 10:39:11 EST Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com We already know that Sandy's bot automatically discards submissions from people he doesn't like, irrespective of contents. In the past the rejected articles were tossed to the "flames" list. Now Sandy has gone one step further. The following article criticized the product Sandy is paid to peddle. It showed up on the 'unedited' list, but Sandy hated its contents so much that it hasn't made it to EITHER censored or the 'flames' list! This is the beginning of the censored article: To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Security alert!!! From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Comments: All power to the ZOG! Message-Id: <aw5c2D4w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 16:15:21 EST Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk WARNING: There's a rogue trojan horse out there on the internet known as the "stronghold web server". It's actually a hacked-up version of Apache with a backdoor, which allows hackers (or whoever knows the backdoor) to steal credit card numbers and other confidentil information on the Internet. Be careful! Always use encryption. Do not send confidential information 9such as passwords and credit card numbers) to any site running the trojan horse "stronghold". In general, beware of "snake oil" security products and hacked-up versions of free software. Please repost this warning to all relevant computer security forums. (rest snipped to save bandwidth) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps ========================================================== Return-Path: cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com X-Sender: jya(a)pop.pipeline.com Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 18:10:58 -0500 To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> Subject: Re: Is Sandy really censoring criticisms of Stronghold, his product? Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com My version of DV's ploy came via the unedited list. There was also a good, brief discussion about Vulis's multi-pronged Denial of Service attack on Cypherpunks, which came unedited, along with other informative comments about how a technologically adept attacker singles out a quarry amongst a lumbering, slumbering, cud- chewing herd. Quite beastly cryptoanarchistic. ========================================================== Return-Path: cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com X-Sender: jya(a)pop.pipeline.com Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:17:32 -0500 To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> Subject: Who's Censoring Who? Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Sandy's e-mailed several of us who've sent messages about Vulis's ploy to put Sandy in a conflict-of-interest bind -- a well-known attack on moderators of all kinds, not just on the net. What's worth admiring is how Vulis has adeptly managed to get others -- targets and witting and unwitting cohorts -- to go along with his attack, attack, attack, by opposing or supporting it. A useful lesson. Smart dude, that Vulis, but no more so than others on the Net, say, Tim May, and in the world who've done the same elsewhere, maybe by even smarter dude(s) who provoked, angered, insulted, an unwitting Vulis, or May, to attack on behalf of ... But such deception is to be expected, along with feigned suprise and outrage at the unfairness of opponents fighting as dirty as one's own pure-blackhearts. Sandy's not censoring cypherpunks, nor is Vulis or May or any single person alone. As Pogo said, it's all of us, posters and lurkers and spooks, each trying to get one's way to prevail, under guise of a high principle not easily honored when the squeeze is on alone in a dark cell. Come on out Sandy, it was just a drill. It's probably worth saving accusations of censorship for the real thing, after trial usage here for what is truly nasty high-stakes global info-war gaming. [Note: Thorn, "cuckoo" and TCM responded to this; none were forwarded to the cp-edited list, AFIK.] ==========================================================

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Re(2): DFA
by Theodor.SCHLICKMANN＠bxl.dg13.cec.be 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, the European Commission is also sponsoring a project called "OKAPI" where Quisquater and others are working on smardcards in the spirit of the mentioned publications by DFA. Please check www.tele.ucl.ac.be/OKAPI/index.html for further information. Theodor W. Schlickmann

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here're wee additions to your archive: I subbed to cp-unedited from the first, so could compare the unedited messages with the edited. Some of mine(*) were edited, including a few on the Stronghold topic. But to me that's not as big a deal as some want to make of it. For example, in response to Tim's request to repost DV's Stronghold ploy, I did so, and it was edited. Sandy sent me a courteous email stating that he was not forwarding the message. I answered that that was okay with me because I thought that DV was using the issue as a ploy to undermine Sandy. Hey, there were no legal or other threats made to me, darn it! Another of my edited messages stated that there had been good discussion on the unedited list about DV's Denial of Service attack on Cypherpunks. Another noted that DV had been admirably successful in drawing others into his fight -- in support and in opposition -- as part of his DoS. Another questioned "Who's Censoring Who?" and offered the opinion that "censorship" rhetorically exaggerated Sandy's moderation. (I still believe that's the case.) For what it's worth, I oppose moderation, but favor experimentation, in the recognition that humans are near-endlessly adaptable and near- uncontrollable no matter what control mechanisms are employed -- anarchy is the norm whether advocated or not. So, I think the moderation experiment was a success, in that it has led to an unexpectedly constructive reconfiguration of Cypherpunks -- and not the last, that's for sure -- and showed that any archy is wishful dreaming of tortured hearts and minds and loins. A one hand applause to Dr. V and archy-demolishers for vibrating the c'punks house the way SATAN did bigger shoddy piles. Two hands to TCM for more memorable quaking of structure-bunkered c'punks and others. ----- * I'll supply copies of messages cited if you like.

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Re: (fwd) DES challenge organisation
by Tim Newsome 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Adam Back wrote: > > 5. The prize money will be split equally between Gutenberg and EFF. > > There is a possibility of using part of it for stickers or > > something similar, but don't count on it. > Not a good idea. > How can this be enforced? The RSADSI DES challenge is open to all Unless people modify the client, we will know about it before they do. Yes, people might cheat. Main point is we don't want to turn this into a race for money. (Also, that way we can't use university machines etc.) This topic has been discussed too often also. Read the archives for more debate. Tim Tim Newsome. Programmer for Megasoft. Student at CMU. Cynic in life. Intel sucks. Motorola forever! If it's not PGP signed, it didn't come from me. Always look on the bright side of life. I think I think therefore I think I am. drz(a)froody.bloke.com http://www.local.com/~tnewsom/ PGP key: 2048/C32F01A5 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv Comment: In God we trust. Everybody else we verify using PGP! iQEVAwUBMwh34PKkXTDDLwGlAQE/KggAmWk9rL86fknnXWy9ASPWQokH6J0vEzW+ qhrBklXwv0Lz5HGNV92OM0qh9KI+bqFct9aNY0B15g6APspSUNYr7RaXI2/LaSYb 0gG7YpPe2kHFdSWsodhYyu7DTzYvdDI1AJOmEnSUKHQPKiLwU/RgVZiLEttuvIcS GCjDEGEW7C0YIrQKTkLoYKkSHz6HHXQ+/hr66yCBMD7AIS1C/p9yN2ticmQ3hLnd DYSpVQb9NudLcU0bGZC1U31o70hSVmyETTt9VcuJCOXseiggWTZsZuNK/D+f5TfA WBEcIAWToBHfrWSokuF9nunAarmcddQyPu/93hzRkgODVTWgmnpOGA== =IuAs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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List of reliable remailers
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{"extropia"} = "<remail(a)miron.vip.best.com> cpunk pgp special"; $remailer{"mix"} = "<mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = "<remailer(a)replay.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{'alpha'} = '<alias(a)alpha.c2.org> alpha pgp'; $remailer{'nymrod'} = '<nymrod(a)nym.jpunix.com> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"lead"} = "<mix(a)zifi.genetics.utah.edu> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"exon"} = "<remailer(a)remailer.nl.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"haystack"} = "<haystack(a)holy.cow.net> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"lucifer"} = "<lucifer(a)dhp.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = "<remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = "<winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord"; $remailer{'nym'} = '<config(a)nym.alias.net> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"balls"} = "<remailer(a)huge.cajones.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"squirrel"} = "<mix(a)squirrel.owl.de> cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"middle"} = "<middleman(a)jpunix.com> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{'cyber'} = '<alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"dustbin"} = "<dustman(a)athensnet.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek mix reord middle ?"; $remailer{'weasel'} = '<config(a)weasel.owl.de> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"death"} = "<x(a)deathsdoor.com> cpunk pgp hash latent post"; $remailer{"reno"} = "<middleman(a)cyberpass.net> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"wazoo"} = "<remailer(a)wazoo.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"shaman"} = "<mix(a)mix.nymserver.com> cpunk mix pgp. hash latent cut"; catalyst(a)netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth(a)ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura(a)replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer(a)crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix) (weasel squirrel) The alpha and nymrod nymservers are down due to abuse. However, you can use the nym or weasel (newnym style) nymservers. The cyber nymserver is quite reliable for outgoing mail (which is what's measured here), but is exhibiting serious reliability problems for incoming mail. The squirrel and winsock remailers accept PGP encrypted mail only. 403 Permission denied errors have been caused by a flaky disk on the Berkeley WWW server. This seems to be fixed now. The penet remailer is closed. Last update: Mon 17 Feb 97 6:46:40 PST remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- wazoo remailer(a)wazoo.com ++++++++*+++ 37:37 100.00% nym config(a)nym.alias.net *#*##**++#*+ 4:23 99.99% winsock winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net -__.+-..---+ 7:52:03 99.93% cyber alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net ** *++++++*+ 35:11 99.89% dustbin dustman(a)athensnet.com .++--.+--- 2:08:12 99.85% weasel config(a)weasel.owl.de +++++++++++ 1:06:36 99.77% exon remailer(a)remailer.nl.com ***-* *#+# 4:10 99.62% squirrel mix(a)squirrel.owl.de + ++++++ + 1:04:02 99.05% haystack haystack(a)holy.cow.net #*##*+* **+ 20:23 98.49% reno middleman(a)cyberpass.net .++ -- +++ 1:16:02 98.36% lucifer lucifer(a)dhp.com +++++++ +++ 42:18 98.28% extropia remail(a)miron.vip.best.com -------- -- 5:19:42 98.21% middle middleman(a)jpunix.com ++++ + -- 2:16:10 97.36% replay remailer(a)replay.com ---+** ---* 1:27:53 88.59% balls remailer(a)huge.cajones.com ## *### *# 1:38 84.09% jam remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca ******* ** 8:25 82.44% shaman mix(a)mix.nymserver.com 11:03 22.27% mix mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com *+ 22:42:38 21.62% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien

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FC97 lookalike: Stock Trading over the Internet Conference
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I don't know about *lookalike*... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Sender: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com Reply-To: Ian Grigg <iang(a)systemics.com> Precedence: Bulk Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:30:32 +0100 (MET) From: Ian Grigg <iang(a)systemics.com> To: Multiple recipients of <e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com> Subject: FC97 lookalike: Stock Trading over the Internet Conference http://www.iqpc.com/0397stoc.htm STOCK TRADING OVER THE INTERNET Exploiting the power of Electronic Commerce March 19-20, 1997 * The Pan Pacific Hotel * San Francisco, CA Hear first hand tips from the true pioneers in Internet stock trading and electronic commerce on: Conquering the process of going public Raising capital in your company via the Internet Using the Web to build your business and partnering with co-opitition Forming permanent syndicates to foster the creation of new offerings Creating effective and complete marketing plans for IPO's and DPO's Attracting customers and delivering services through the exploding electronic commerce market The audience for this event will include companies looking to offer shares via the Internet and drastically cut costs including; Chief Executive Officers, Chief Financial Officers, Managing Directors, General Managers, Investor Relations Managers, Underwriters, Stock Exchange Executives, Venture Capitalists, Investment Bankers, Private Company Executives, Business Development Executives, Technology and Business Press and all those seeking to explore opportunities on the emerging Internet marketplace DAY ONE March 19, 1997 Chairman: Brad W. Smith, President, WBS & A, Ltd. 8:30 REGULATORY CONSIDERATIONS ON INTERNET PUBLIC OFFERINGS This session will review the many regulatory and legislative issues involved in the development of Internet public offerings. In particular, how and why the regulatory bodies of the NASD, NASDAQ and the SEC are making a commitment to the Internet as a vehicle that serves the investor. Proper surveillance procedures have been created and executed to protect all parties. Internet initiatives have been developed to bridge the market side and regulatory side of these complex issues. Al Dandridge, Associate Director of Corporate Finance U.S. SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION Charles Bennett, Associate Director of Corporate Finance NASD 9:30 INTERNET TRADING MARKET PROJECTIONS Internet trading is an emerging market wave that is poised for explosive growth. More than 60 million investors have brokerage accounts. The media reports that Internet brokerage accounts will jump from 1.5 million today to 9.3 million by the year 2001; Every bank will use the Internet to attract customers and deliver services in the next five years and electronic commerce will grow to $600 billion annually within the next 10 years. Visionaries believe that one of the most profound effects of these phenomena's will be to changehow small businesses get capitalized. They predict that small business public offerings will become routine for nano-cap companies. This session will present a strategic overview of the emergence of internet capabilities that make it possible for investors to invest in and trade nano-cap company stocks. Brad Smith, President WBS & A, Ltd. bradwsmith(a)aol.com 11:00 GOING PUBLIC: HOW TO RAISE CAPITAL THROUGH A DIRECT PUBLIC OFFERING (DPO) This session will explore from concept to completion, how to perform all of the necessary functions to prepare and market a DPO and/or an Internet DPO. A case study will be shared of a DPO that will be presented to the investment community world-wide in early 1997. Learn from the experts the specifics on how to take your company where you want to go and ensure success including: Marketing through an investor relations firm Choosing an appropriate analyst Utilizing a transfer agent The link between broker and internet commerce David A. Levonian, President INTERNATIONAL INVESTOR RELATIONS http://iirwebtv.net 1:00 OVERCOMING THE PITFALLS AND CHALLENGES OF GOING PUBLIC The advantages of "going public" appear straight forward. The company accesses the capital it needs to expand or refine its product. (In a purely coincidental occurrence, the current shareholder [including investment bankers, SEC lawyers and stock brokers] get rich.) There are numerous challenges in conquering the process of "going public" including: There are problems with the lawyers, accountants and the bankers and they are on YOUR SIDE There are pounds of paper forms which must be submitted to every group, not to mention the SEC. However, an approved offering does not make a successful offering. It still must be marketed, either by stock brokers OR MAYBE directly over the Internet. And not just to the U.S., but to the entire world. That may be the wave of the future. Direct access to securities and their offering companies over the Internet. Michael J. Waddell, President PROMARKETING, INC. Developer of the (http://www.freemarket.org) selected by PC Novice Guide to the Web as one of the Internet "Greatest Sites" 2:00 IPONET: SELLING & ADVERTISING IPO'S ON THE INTERNET: THE CREATION OF THE FIRST PERMANENT SYNDICATE IPOnet is currently the only site on the Internet with clearance from the SEC to advertise and sell new security offerings online. IPOnet intends to have multiple Broker/Dealers listed on it's site. This will create the first permanent syndicate of Broker/Dealers. These Broker/Dealers will act as selected dealers for each others offerings and act as underwriters of their own offerings. This session will examine the following topics: Why the broker can not be eliminated from the offerings What really happens when an IPO is put on the Internet Why DPO's will never be a major threat to brokers Why a permanent syndicate will foster the creation of new offerings Leo J. Feldman, President IPONET http://www.e-iponet.com lfeldman(a)e-iponet.com 3:30 THE IMPORTANCE OF TRADITIONAL EXCHANGES AS A SECONDARY MARKET Taking your company public via the Internet, rather than the traditional exchange, has become a very viable alternative for small business owners. However, unless the offering is backed by a complete marketing plan, it is unlikely that the offering will reap huge financial rewards and achieve success. Incorporating a traditional exchange as a secondary market into the plan can solidify, stabilize and extend the offering beyond the Internet marketplace and create longevity and security and financial return on your offering. This session will explore secondary markets and how traditional exchanges are advocating the collaborative efforts of traditional and web offerings. Iris Golden Brackett, Manager Listing Sales CHICAGO STOCK EXCHANGE 4:30 Panel Discussion: PUBLIC OFFERINGS AND THE INTERNET: LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS Join three of the most influential Internet finance and securities attorneys for this highly interactive session. They will discuss the legal aspects associated with buying and selling securities on the Internet, including private placement, Regulation A offerings and independent public offerings. Come prepared to share your challenges and solutions! William D. Evers, Esq. MILLER, MAILLIARD & CULVER M. Greg Allio, Esq. SHARTSIS, FRIESE & GINSBERG John Perkins, Chairman THE SMALL BUSINESS CAPITAL ACCESS ASSOCIATION Charles Bennett, Associate Director of Corporate Finance NASD 5:45 CLOSE OF DAY ONE DAY TWO March 20, 1997 8:15 ELECTRONIC BULLETIN BOARDS FOR BID AND ASK OFFERS: THE EMERGENCE OF DIRECT STOCK MARKET The secondary market is the key to successful initial and direct public offerings. The traditional brokerage community has their hands tied when it comes to underwriting and making markets in small company issues. A new strata of corporate finance is being created by technological advances which marry capital requirements of entrepreneurs with risk/return and information demands of investors. This presentation will explore: Using the internet to raise capital for your company Secondary market trading on the Internet Virtual roadshows online Building your own public venture capital portfolio Investing in public venture funds Clay Womack, President DIRECT STOCK MARKET http://www.direct-stock-market.com 9:15 EXPLOITING INTERNET TECHNOLOGY TO REACH A GLOBAL AUDIENCE The power of the Internet has unleashed the potential for new business expansion and financial opportunity in a global market. Foreign businesses can now join forces quickly to create products and services and offer them to a larger population than before. This session will examine how to cultivate these partnerships, foster growth and secure positive financial outcomes by: Using the Web to build your business and partnering with co-opitition Attracting "qualified" people to your site Exploring value-added opportunities in the financial market on the Internet Michael Withrow, Director POWERTRADER, INC. http://www.powertrader.axionet.com 10:45 UNDERSTANDING THE COMPONENTS OF A STOCK TRANSFER Choosing a transfer agent with diversity of services allows your company to do more and retain extra added-value components and services. This session will take you step-by-step through the IPO process from working with attorneys through to the transfer work. Learn how to: How to judicate a stock transfer Outline the processes needed Develop the steps involved Anticipate the role of the Internet in stock transfers Sherri Herman, President THE HERMAN GROUP, INC. SMALL BUSINESS CAPITAL ACCESS ASSOCIATION 1:00 INTERNET TRANSACTIONS FOR THE PORTFOLIO MANAGER This session will feature case studies and the future outlook on internet transactions for portfolio managers including: What is the Electronic/Internet Information System? -Office based and wireless -Text and video How is it used? -The two way information flows -Routine and custom information Specific needs and requirements for the portfolio manager and ways of customizing the information What are the advantages of the new system? Costs and tools of the system -Dollars -Technology -Savvy and advertising John Palicka, CFA, CMT Portfolio Manager GLOBAL EMERGING GROWTH 2:30 INTERNET OPPORTUNITIES FOR PUBLIC COMPANIES This session will focus on opportunities available on the Internet to companies that are publicly traded. A presentation no senior executive should miss! This presentation will examine why public companies should consider the added profitability of the Internet and offer specific Internet strategies and risks including: Using the Internet to improve liquidity Build a stock analyst following using the Internet Dealing with Motley Fool's and other potential risks M. Greg Allio, Partner SHARTSIS FRIESE & GINSBERG 3:30 CREATING AN ELECTRONIC STOCK EXCHANGE Exploiting IP-Understanding Internet Protocol (IP) - How to make your business grow ON-LINE by using the "best of" all available software Order Driven Systems- Understanding why market makers & specialists are a "necessary evil" we live with, and look at the functionality of SuperDot-type automation as opposed to Drop Copy A Virtual Branch Office- The growth of the independent brokerage industry, and a look at what will happen to the traditional registered representative Compliance/Supervision- How a small brokerage firm will supervise their representatives in the Internet age Ken Gruneisen, President & CEO, BEST EX, INC. THE BOCA RATON ELECTRONIC STOCK EXCHANGE 5:30 END OF CONFERENCE Post Conference Workshops ------------------------- 9:00am - 12:00pm The Impact of the World Wide Web on Individual Investors and Electronic Stock Trading 1pm - 4pm Building the partnership between Electronic Commerce and Raising Capital1pm - 4pm ---------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Commerce Solutions in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$? Help pay for it! See <http://www.shipwright.com/rah.html> Or, for e$/e$pam sponsorship, see <http://www.shipwright.com/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Re: Cypherpunks afraid of spam?
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 17 Feb 1997, Bryan Reece wrote: > So, if I put root(a)127.0.0.1 in the "From:" field of my news reader's > configuration, all of my posts will give this as my e-mail address. > > More likely to be delivered is root(a)[127.0.0.1] or Oops, finger trouble... Must've been something in that pizza for supper <sheepish grin> Cynthia =============================================================== Cynthia H. Brown, P.Eng. E-mail: cynthb(a)iosphere.net | PGP Key: See Home Page Home Page: http://www.iosphere.net/~cynthb/ Junk mail will be ignored in the order in which it is received. Klein bottle for rent; enquire within.

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suppressing duplicates based on MD5 of body
by Alan Barrett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It's been more than 30 hours since I sent the first copy of this message to cypherpunks(a)toad.com, and I still haven't seen it on either the moderated or the flames lists @toad.com. Suspecting that a particular naughty word was to blame, I inserted some hyphens and resent the message several hours later. That too has failed to reach me on either the moderated to the flames lists @toad.com. I am now kmtkujatwv to several other flavours of the list, and will be interested to see which (if any) get *this* message, in which the naughty word is encrypted using the well-known ROT-n algorithm, with a key that I will keep secret. Heres's a procmail recipe for suppressing duplicate messages based on the MD5 of a "normalised" version of the body of the messages. Folk who celcmbslo to more than one of the cypherpunks lists may find it useful. :0 * (Sender: |Return-Path: |Received:.*for.*)(owner-)?cypherpunks { # Detect duplicate messages based on MD5 of normalised body :0:.md5.lock * B ?? ? (m=`$HOME/bin/normalise-body | md5`; \ echo "Message-ID: <$m@MD5>" \ | formail -D 8192 .body-md5.cypherpunks.cache ) cypherpunks-duplicates :0: cypherpunks } The "* B ?? ?" means "send the body of the message as input to the following command, and test the command's exit status". $HOME/bin/normalise-body is a simple perl script (appended) that deletes trailing blanks on all lines and then deletes leading and trailing blank lines. --apb (Alan Barrett) # This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". Note, it may # create directories; files and directories will be owned by you and # have default permissions. # # This archive contains: # # normalise-body # echo x - normalise-body sed 's/^X//' >normalise-body << 'END-of-normalise-body' X#!/usr/bin/perl X X# A very weak attempt at normalising the body of a mail message. X# Removes trailing white space on all lines, and removes leading X# and trailing blank lines. X# Does not attempt to normalise any MIME content-transfer-encoding. X X$total_nonblank_lines = 0; X$consecutive_blank_lines = 0; Xwhile (<>) { X s/\s+$//; X if (/^$/) { X $consecutive_blank_lines++; X } else { X print "\n" x $consecutive_blank_lines if $total_nonblank_lines; X print $_; X $consecutive_blank_lines = 0; X $total_nonblank_lines++; X } X} END-of-normalise-body exit

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WTO_tap
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Three newspapers have pieces today on the new WTO telecom agreement. A Page 1 NYP report examines the administration's favoring of the once-moribund WTO over the UN as a principal means for "exporting US free-market values through global commercial agreements." The telecom agreement, for the first time, allows the WTO to go inside the signatory countries and check compliance, and if warranted, impose sanctions, a role once reserved to the UN. While encryption is not mentioned, it's worth watching the WTO globally unite its privacy-invasive predecessors: the national tele-tappers. The spin is that now all governments can have access to the global (wiretap) network under guise of enhanced commercial competition. (And that's why Commerce was given EI for CCL.) ----- WTO_tap ---------- For related background, there's informative discussion on the encryption switchover from State to Commerce in the Defense Trade News, archived at the Dept of State Web site. We've put the five issues in which the shift of encryption items from the USML to the CCL is formulated by the Technical Working Group at: January/April 1993: http://jya.com/dtn0193.htm (76K) January 1994: http://jya.com/dtn0194.htm (99K) April 1994: http://jya.com/dtn0494.htm (66K) July/October, 1994: http://jya.com/dtn0794.htm (67K) October 1995: http://jya.com/dtn1095.htm (35K)

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Re: Moderation experiment and moderator liability
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: > Adam Back wrote: > > [summary of events] > > I believe your summary is very accurate except: > > I would add after the paragraph about Dimitri posting the warning > about C2, that C2's lawyers sent an immediate threatening letter > to Dimitri. Agree, that should be added: 15a. Dimitri received a legal notice from C2Net's lawyers about Dimitri's allegations > I would change the paragraph about Tim May receiving a warning from > C2's lawyers to say that Tim May received a warning second-hand that > anything Tim would say to support or reiterate Dimitri's claims > would be actionable by C2 as well. Let's see I wrote: > 21. Tim received a warning from C2Net's lawyers that if he did not > desist from mentioning that Dimitri had posted an article criticising > a C2Net product that he would be sued! Tim explained the situation in fair detail in his recent post, explaining, after Sandy's "Absolutely false." retort to my above claim. Perhaps my wording could be more accurately changed in the light of the further explanation from Tim to: 21. Tim was told by a C2Net employee that if he did not desist from discussing Dimitri's claims about C2Net's StrongHold product, C2Net would take legal action against him! Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

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WTO_tap
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Three newspapers have pieces today on the new WTO telecom agreement. A Page 1 NYP report examines the administration's favoring of the once-moribund WTO over the UN as a principal means for "exporting US free-market values through global commercial agreements." The telecom agreement, for the first time, allows the WTO to go inside the signatory countries and check compliance, and if warranted, impose sanctions, a role once reserved to the UN. While encryption is not mentioned, it's worth watching the WTO globally unite its privacy-invasive predecessors: the national tele-tappers. The spin is that now all governments can have access to the global (wiretap) network under guise of enhanced commercial competition. (And that's why Commerce was given EI for CCL.) ----- WTO_tap ---------- For related background, there's informative discussion on the encryption switchover from State to Commerce in the Defense Trade News, archived at the Dept of State Web site. We've put the five issues in which the shift of encryption items from the USML to the CCL is formulated by the Technical Working Group at: January/April 1993: http://jya.com/dtn0193.htm (76K) January 1994: http://jya.com/dtn0194.htm (99K) April 1994: http://jya.com/dtn0494.htm (66K) July/October, 1994: http://jya.com/dtn0794.htm (67K) October 1995: http://jya.com/dtn1095.htm (35K)

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Re: (fwd) DES challenge organisation
by Tim Newsome 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Adam Back wrote: > > 5. The prize money will be split equally between Gutenberg and EFF. > > There is a possibility of using part of it for stickers or > > something similar, but don't count on it. > Not a good idea. > How can this be enforced? The RSADSI DES challenge is open to all Unless people modify the client, we will know about it before they do. Yes, people might cheat. Main point is we don't want to turn this into a race for money. (Also, that way we can't use university machines etc.) This topic has been discussed too often also. Read the archives for more debate. Tim Tim Newsome. Programmer for Megasoft. Student at CMU. Cynic in life. Intel sucks. Motorola forever! If it's not PGP signed, it didn't come from me. Always look on the bright side of life. I think I think therefore I think I am. drz(a)froody.bloke.com http://www.local.com/~tnewsom/ PGP key: 2048/C32F01A5 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv Comment: In God we trust. Everybody else we verify using PGP! iQEVAwUBMwh34PKkXTDDLwGlAQE/KggAmWk9rL86fknnXWy9ASPWQokH6J0vEzW+ qhrBklXwv0Lz5HGNV92OM0qh9KI+bqFct9aNY0B15g6APspSUNYr7RaXI2/LaSYb 0gG7YpPe2kHFdSWsodhYyu7DTzYvdDI1AJOmEnSUKHQPKiLwU/RgVZiLEttuvIcS GCjDEGEW7C0YIrQKTkLoYKkSHz6HHXQ+/hr66yCBMD7AIS1C/p9yN2ticmQ3hLnd DYSpVQb9NudLcU0bGZC1U31o70hSVmyETTt9VcuJCOXseiggWTZsZuNK/D+f5TfA WBEcIAWToBHfrWSokuF9nunAarmcddQyPu/93hzRkgODVTWgmnpOGA== =IuAs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Mark M. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Bill Campbell wrote: > However, I'm very confused on just what to do at this > point, my news server doesn't see alt.cypherpunks > yet and if it did would probably lose about 75% of > the posts if past performance is to be any indicator. > (Or more accurately, would never get them, we seem > to be a bottom feeder here in South Florida as far > as the newsgroups go.) > > Has anyone composed a concise summary of just > what the options are? Time is running out, I guess. Here's my understanding of the situation: - Newsgroups alt.cypherpunks, alt.cypherpunks.announce, alt.cypherpunks.social, alt.cypherpunks.technical have been created. - The distributed list is still forming and so far consists of cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, cypherpunks(a)ssz.com, and others of which I do not know the location. A mail<->news gateway is planned, but not yet in place, between the distributed list and the newsgroup(s). cypherpunks(a)algebra.com is receiving messages from cypherpunks-unedited. I assume this means that the other hosts part of the distributed list are also receiving cypherpunks-unedited messages. - Lance Cottrell is running another list (cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net) that is not yet part of the distributed list. It is also receiving feed from toad.com. If you don't want to miss any messages, then you should subscribe to both cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net and one of the distributed list nodes. Since both are receiving cypherpunks-unedited, you can safely unsubscribe from cypherpunks-unedited, -flames, or the "main" list. Since these lists have overlapping content, you should delete duplicates. Mark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMwif+CzIPc7jvyFpAQEBJwf/T3y22R0W30Sp26Ub4ntH3miJRUBlv9nO GLZqRzT5JI4Ux9Ml6by0aAKxKiOH/mTGuu5ELogsC6hv50F/GKtmQv9kdqTukoJq 19j7WuGCDflve2IPWo9/vSvcJpLBAcGwBnVIOiS8wBR9tz42GxpM/y+/eZgYfYWS OnQHqOA+fDWrKmdNj+3EHuMWXHLoGTILVpX2UGBpFDGZEgoZNM56Oj9CWU5NU3cn 4De/fS5M5L3AO/SGRNQ6CSTqYsixdniapamBdHWeURasvy2iD7Xyxq7li4DzL1VE LB+1qo6AHrmRlS3+4cv3xA+9hsNpFoW0FsicN8sVUP0pGl0ADEVXKA== =HKTe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Bad Headers Added to John Young postings via owner-cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970216:1241 Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> said: +Hi! The following headers are from a posting by John Young that looks +like it was sent to cypherpunks(a)toad.com, +forwarded to cypherpunks(a)sirius.infonex.com and/or +cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net, and has the Reply-To: header +set to reply to cypherpunks(a)toad.com instead of to John Young.... It +looks like the obvious implementation of cypherpunks-style mail header +patching, but isn't quite right..... Leads to people sending their +John Young mailbot requests to cypherpunks(a)toad.com instead, as some +well-known cypherpunks have mistakenly done recently :-) this is what Lance said he would do... until toad.com shuts down, you address all messages to cypherpunks(a)toad.com to avoid overlap. toad.com was never set up to show cypherpunks(a)road.com in the "Reply-To: " field, but it should have been. mailing lists then have the "From: " field from the original sender, and the "Reply-To: " to the list. Now, there are reasons some list operators do not change the reply field --usually in the hope any responders will not notice the list is not being copied....in just turns into private mail. for the almost 20 years I been playing with mail lists of various sorts starting with simple inbound scoop and explode to list, Lance's convention has been the norm. attila gone... ___________________________________________________________attila_____ "A man owns an ass; he can vote. The ass dies; he cannot vote. Who owns the vote?" --Benjamin Franklin _______________________________________________________________________ "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBMwgLQb04kQrCC2kFAQGUuwP9HGqFFjxWRkTnkN9+Y2AnCErsRtTwYJpL RpKfsz3fJ89xr5qt18EXqt768ZvFclw2ipsdy50FIUSmHqPx+SkZykcTqn/yspX1 B9+HdKE3fYhZNPqwVftX+AEX6ZLYJNlZ1rfak1qaL1ROw164JZR86J4Ik7TiUJZV FBWxiJ85b6A= =gBiw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Constitution and a Right to Privacy
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:22 PM -0600 2/17/97, snow wrote: >Mr. May wrote: >> Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the >> Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing >> number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals >> of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, >> True Names revealed, etc.? > > This is where I often get a little confused. > > Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the >constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes >_I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was >allowed to do. > > In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it >restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). > > My rights are WHATEVER ISN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION, and the government >can only, ONLY do what the constitution says it can. > > ??? But why do you not object that the "right to free speech," "the right to keep and bear arms," and so on, are specifically enumeratedin the Bill of Rights? The privacy issue is that there is no such enumeration of a right to privacy in the Bill of Rights, though many think it to be implicit in some of the other enumerated rights, e.g,, the Fourth, and even in the First. Constitutional issues are not easily discussed in short messages like this. Suffice it to say the issue of whether a "right to privacy" exists has been long discussed, most recently by Bork, Posner, and others (I skimmed the latest Posner book a while back, and liked his style). The issue hit when abortion advocates argued that a "woman's right to privacy" allowed abortions. However, none of the enumerated rights made this obvious. Bork has opined that no right to privacy can be inferred from the Constitution. (And I always thought the "woman's right to privacy" argument for abortion was flaky. Accepting such an argument, wouldn't infanticide be equally protected by a woman's right to privacy?) --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. May wrote: > Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the > Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing > number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals > of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, > True Names revealed, etc.? This is where I often get a little confused. Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes _I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was allowed to do. In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). My rights are WHATEVER ISN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION, and the government can only, ONLY do what the constitution says it can. ???

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:02 PM -0500 2/17/97, John Young wrote: >Return-Path: cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com >X-Sender: jya(a)pop.pipeline.com >Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:17:32 -0500 >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> >Subject: Who's Censoring Who? >Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com > >Sandy's e-mailed several of us who've sent messages about Vulis's >ploy to put Sandy in a conflict-of-interest bind -- a well-known attack >on moderators of all kinds, not just on the net. Interestingly, I don't recall getting any e-mail from Sandy telling me he was not passing on my messages to either the Main or the Flames list...my messages were simply dropped on the floor. (Others, including John, have said they sometimes got nice Sandygrams explaining why their items were deemed unsuitable for either of the lists. Sandy may have considered it pointless to send me an explanation....) >It's probably worth saving accusations of censorship for the real thing, >after trial usage here for what is truly nasty high-stakes global info-war >gaming. As John likes literary references, recall William Burroughs' warning about "the policeman inside." I can't share John's belief that we should ignore censorship on the CP list (especially messages going to neither of the two specified lists, without notice). Waiting "for the real thing" is not a clear-cut issue, as explicit censorship of political views is not likely to happen in our lifetimes in the U.S. However, "self-censorship," a la the V-chip, the mandatory voluntary labeling of CDs, etc., is becoming the favored route. And the use of the legal system, or threats to use the legal system (a la threats made to Vulis, Against Moderation, etc.) is part of the bullying pulpit (this pun inspired by John's flights of rhetorical fancy). >[Note: Thorn, "cuckoo" and TCM responded to this; none were forwarded >to the cp-edited list, AFIK.] One of the interesting, and utterly predictable, consequences of "silent suppression" of some messages is that those on the unedited list, who see all traffic (for the nonce), get to engage in conversations which are subsequently suppressed so that several of us are having a conversation the main list (and the flames list) are oblivious to! This has had the fascinating effect of having people outside the conversation (as an example, Blanc Weber) gradually figuring out from "approved" messages that something is going on behind the scenes...they they send us messages (as Blanc did) asking what the hell is going on, what we're obliquely referring to. When the excised material is forwarded to them (as I did with Blanc), the reaction is often "Wow! I didn't know." As conversational threads are often so tangled, and become so much more tangled with time, the job of the censor gets more difficult as time passes. Not only must he excise all mention of banned topics, he must also be alert to later discussions making mention of the act of banning, or of the topics. This is territory well-covered by Orwell, of course. The rewriting of history is a full-time job. --Winston Smith Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

drose(a)azstarnet.com wrote: > With regard to chemicals, may I suggest a perusal of the PGI and PML lists > (respectively, Pyrotechnics Guild Inc. and Pyrotechnics Mailing List)? These > are good resources; just about anything you might want is available. > However, they are serious; the KeWl BoMb stuff is on USENET (attn: C'Punk > Newsgroup folks-thanx Dimi--there *is* a difference). > Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff > quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young > fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you > have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy > Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Yea, tho' they kicked me out of school for stashing this stuff in my wall locker, does that make me a bad person, or stupid? Lots of patriots in the late 1700's blew themselves up trying to make explosives for the cause. One person's freedom fighter....

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Re: Cypherpunks afraid of spam?
by Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 aaron(a)herringn.com wrote: > [Fairly prominent Cypherpunk I'll decline to name- I don't mean to ridicule > him personally, just his (distressingly common) attitude] Hey, I can take the heat. But I'm afraid you missed my perhaps too-terse point. > >Just for the record. I will not post to USENET given the spamming that > >seems to go to IDs that appear there. > > [chuckle] > > Just add an anti-spam segment to your email address. > > example: > > jsmith[at]foo.com > It's not that simple. Consider: 1) I stopped learning more about new computer tools than the minimum needed to do my work a long time ago, when I stopped programming and started lawyering. It wasn't an efficient use of my time. 2) Our system here has ONE email system: PINE. It defaults my "from" address. There is no obvious way to override it. I may have the necessary tools and permissions, I may not; I don't feel like taking whatever time it takes to figure it out. We use PINE for usenet and email, using the same config file. There are other usenet tools here, like tin, but I would have to learn them. Again, I have no idea if I have the permissions/tools/knowledge to alter my headers. I am certain that I could hack it with time enough and motivation enough. I have neither. 3) I do other things besides talk to you with this tool. I communicate with students, family and others. I want them to get my real headers. I don't want an elaborate switching mechanims every time I change the person I'm speaking to. > Most people worth talking to have enough of a clue to replace [at] with @. > > if your software requires an apparently valid email address, try > > jsmith(a)NOSPAM.foo.com > > I put a spam-busted address in my .sig and give root(a)127.0.0.1 as my email > in the from: header. Sure, somebody out there is going to be unhappy with > me, but if they have a clue they'll figure it out. Meantime, the SpamBots > are bouncing mail to the admin of the site instead of to me. > > That may not be enough if you're already in the spamming lists. Try > using 'positive' filtering- instead of filtering to eliminate unwanted > mail, filter email from regular correspondents into a 'approved' > directory, and leave the rest in the inbox to pick through later. > > It seems very strange that the denziens of this list, reputed to be gutsy > enough to take on the FBI, NSA, CIA, and White House, would be scared > away from a discussion forum (Usenet) by uninvited email. > > We'd better hope they never figure out Cypherpunks, Guardians of > Privacy and Defenders of Free Speech, are afraid of spam. > > (And supposedly the 'Moderation experiment' is over, so this won't get > kicked onto the -flames list, although it's more ridicule than flame...) > > > > == The above may have been dictated via Dragon Dictate 2.52 voice recognition. Please be alert for unintentional word substitutions. A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law | U. Miami School of Law | froomkin(a)law.miami.edu P.O. Box 248087 | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's warm here.

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by drose＠azstarnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With regard to chemicals, may I suggest a perusal of the PGI and PML lists (respectively, Pyrotechnics Guild Inc. and Pyrotechnics Mailing List)? These are good resources; just about anything you might want is available. However, they are serious; the KeWl BoMb stuff is on USENET (attn: C'Punk Newsgroup folks-thanx Dimi--there *is* a difference). Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Me, personally? I'm glad to have traded the availability of interesting reagents for the "Oppa-tune-itee" of having freedom and justice. (Although nobody "axed" my opinion prior to there having been a reversal in the thrust of gummint regulations.)

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by camcc＠abraxis.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 05:28 PM 2/17/97 -0800, you wrote: :anomalies in the new system, [now the big words!] :given the haste in which they must initiate a new distributed :mailing list system. : On the other hand, they may all be godless communists, seeking :to twist our fragile minds to do their bidding. (Much like myself) : :Toto I recant. You ARE nuts! Alec Niice post. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 Comment: Message PGP 2.6.2. encrypted. Public key available on request or from keyservers. iQCVAgUBMwkMFiKJGkNBIH7lAQHNKQP/dDV5v6wREV37IPkaJTfQqL35c4MyFNfK t4/KmgneKmzGX9uqGzd8Z6kCeRk5vBhAbrhVsqaOhvZouakj2YWe1JbRZWmy+gNR ohY2NERNi0Xm5S1PUrwjQAJutFlw2VV+CZ4GYa/0IV3Fn++GzeZFENbOt6zBTkEZ PsWVhjvoRPU= =3ZEn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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PDAs as alternatives to smart cards?
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With the widespread adoption of an industry standard IR link between PDA type devices, networks and PCs might this not present an opportunity for their use as more user-configurable and application agile financial and communiation privacy instruments? I'm especially thinking along the lines of their use for ecash transactions in conjunction with smart card-type merchant terminals sporting an inexpensive IR link to the customer's PDA. If disk protection programs (e.g., DiskCrypt/PGPDisk) were extended to PDAs ight that not enable them for a whole host of personal applications? --Steve

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Telecom Frequently Asked Questions File - 1997 Edition [fwd]
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: David Leibold <djcl(a)interlog.com> To: Telecom Digest <ptownson(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Telecom Digest FAQ - revised edition TELECOM Digest - Frequently Asked Questions - v.8 8 February 1997 * Frequency of Updates: approximately annual (special updates are possible) * FAQ contributions to: Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org or, dleibold(a)else.net or, aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca Introduction... This is a list of frequently asked questions made in the TELECOM Digest. New versions of the list are occasionally made available to deal with new, corrected or updated questions. Many contributors have made the FAQ what it is today (those listed in the "Who contributed to this FAQ?" question are hereby thanked). Check the Archives... Much of the telecom information that is requested can be found in the TELECOM Digest Home Page, via WWW at: http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives This web page should have links to this FAQ file, as well as various informational files on telecom subjects and the Digest itself. The Archives for TELECOM Digest should also be available via the Home Page. The TELECOM Digest Archives are also available through anonymous FTP at massis.lcs.mit.edu (login as anonymous, mail address for password, cd to telecom-archives). If possible, try to access the information via the TELECOM Digest Home Page first. You can also access the Archives using anonymous ftp at the mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives. Also, there is an email <--> ftp service operating called the Telecom Archives Email Information Service. Anything in the archives can be obtained automatically by email. Send mail addressed to: tel-archives(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu The subject does not matter. Include no text, sending just a blank letter. You will get a help file by return mail and should use that as a guide to ordering stuff by email from the archives. A list of terms commonly used in TELECOM Digest is contained in a "Glossary" section on the Home Page or in the Archives. Try direct inquiries... Direct netmail requests to persons posting on topics of interest to you may also be helpful. In fact, doing things "behind the scenes" can be more productive as the Digest Moderator is frequently swamped with other items. Future editions of this list could include netmail addresses of contacts for certain topics (say for ISDN, cellular, area codes/numbering plan, consumer protection matters, etc.); offers to that end would be appreciated. Where to contact the FAQ maintainer... Suggestions for other common questions, or corrections or other amendments to this file may be made to Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org (Fido 1:259/730) or dleibold(a)else.net or aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca. Note that any or all of these addresses are subject to change or discontinuance. This file is updated approximately annually; special updates may be made as time and circumstances permit. Disclaimer Type Stuff... All information herein should be considered subject to correction or change. No endorsements or promotions of specific products or companies are intended. Any specific references are made for example only, or in order to adequately deal with certain subjects.

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PDAs as alternatives to smart cards?
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With the widespread adoption of an industry standard IR link between PDA type devices, networks and PCs might this not present an opportunity for their use as more user-configurable and application agile financial and communiation privacy instruments? I'm especially thinking along the lines of their use for ecash transactions in conjunction with smart card-type merchant terminals sporting an inexpensive IR link to the customer's PDA. If disk protection programs (e.g., DiskCrypt/PGPDisk) were extended to PDAs ight that not enable them for a whole host of personal applications? --Steve

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by drose＠AZStarNet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With regard to chemicals, may I suggest a perusal of the PGI and PML lists (respectively, Pyrotechnics Guild Inc. and Pyrotechnics Mailing List)? These are good resources; just about anything you might want is available. However, they are serious; the KeWl BoMb stuff is on USENET (attn: C'Punk Newsgroup folks-thanx Dimi--there *is* a difference). Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Me, personally? I'm glad to have traded the availability of interesting reagents for the "Oppa-tune-itee" of having freedom and justice. (Although nobody "axed" my opinion prior to there having been a reversal in the thrust of gummint regulations.)

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > Interestingly, I don't recall getting any e-mail from Sandy telling me he > was not passing on my messages to either the Main or the Flames list...my > messages were simply dropped on the floor. [snip] > As conversational threads are often so tangled, and become so much more > tangled with time, the job of the censor gets more difficult as time > passes. Not only must he excise all mention of banned topics, he must also > be alert to later discussions making mention of the act of banning, or of > the topics. This is territory well-covered by Orwell, of course. The > rewriting of history is a full-time job. Exactly. I hate to intrude, but some of us kids learned that lesson in something called "Sunday School" way back when. The lesson was "If you tell one lie, you'll have to tell another to cover it up, then another and another until you're buried in the lies and your credibility is shot". A related lesson: "An excuse is the skin of a reason packed with a lie".

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Campbell wrote: > > Everyone and his/her cousin has jumped into the void > created when John Gilmore decided to pull the plug > on toad.com. > Has anyone composed a concise summary of just > what the options are? I have subscribed to Igor's cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Jim Choate and Lance Cottrel (?) are participating with Igor and others in maintaining continuity of the list, to my understanding. They all seem to be moving toward maintaining a distributed list which will ensure both continuity and integrity. I would suggest joining one or the other list and then, once the 'dust' has settled, taking steps to verify that whatever list you are subscribed to is operating in such a way as to ensure that there are no shenanigans going on in the background. I, for one, am content to give the new list distributors the benefit of the doubt if there are anomalies in the new system, given the haste in which they must initiate a new distributed mailing list system. On the other hand, they may all be godless communists, seeking to twist our fragile minds to do their bidding. (Much like myself) Toto

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- snow <snow(a)smoke.suba.com> writes: > Mr. May wrote: > > Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the > > Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing > > number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals > > of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, > > True Names revealed, etc.? > > This is where I often get a little confused. > > Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the > constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes > _I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was > allowed to do. > > In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it > restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). You neglect things like the interstate commerce provision, which means that if it crosses state lines, the feds can regualte it. In addition, the court (in its infinite wisdom), decided that "the people" meant the states, then the people. So, as long as it isn't meantioned in the constitution, the states can do whatever they want. Welcome to America, please stay in line. Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMwjGzskz/YzIV3P5AQGKbAL+OA3vfIyutiHrnKXRaydKz0R9hhIinVV3 sSjacpA7MNDxH+bCQhDwqx2WRT89JjKK64nTw+4YF05h3pzl1IV3TD1WNDkt8UIe 5m8Y0LY1v2M5+dGq0ifpKicV8IUkvYar =UsSo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Moderation experiment and moderator liability
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back wrote: > Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: > > Adam Back wrote: > > > [summary of events] > > I believe your summary is very accurate except: > > I would add after the paragraph about Dimitri posting the warning > > about C2, that C2's lawyers sent an immediate threatening letter > > to Dimitri. > Agree, that should be added: > 15a. Dimitri received a legal notice from C2Net's lawyers about > Dimitri's allegations I know this could sound really nitpicky, but proofreading etc. is a big thing for me, so, I personally would not say "legal notice" alone, as it doesn't convey the sense of threat that was very real in the letter to Dimitri. Perhaps "terse legal notice" or words to that effect... > > I would change the paragraph about Tim May receiving a warning from > > C2's lawyers to say that Tim May received a warning second-hand that > > anything Tim would say to support or reiterate Dimitri's claims > > would be actionable by C2 as well. > Let's see I wrote: > > 21. Tim received a warning from C2Net's lawyers that if he did not > > desist from mentioning that Dimitri had posted an article criticising > > a C2Net product that he would be sued! > Tim explained the situation in fair detail in his recent post, > explaining, after Sandy's "Absolutely false." retort to my above > claim. Perhaps my wording could be more accurately changed in the > light of the further explanation from Tim to: > 21. Tim was told by a C2Net employee that if he did not desist from > discussing Dimitri's claims about C2Net's StrongHold product, C2Net > would take legal action against him! Again, at the risk of nitpicking, I'd say "might take legal action...". Just an opinion, I think you've done a really good job summarizing these events.

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Telecom Frequently Asked Questions File - 1997 Edition [fwd]
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: David Leibold <djcl(a)interlog.com> To: Telecom Digest <ptownson(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Telecom Digest FAQ - revised edition TELECOM Digest - Frequently Asked Questions - v.8 8 February 1997 * Frequency of Updates: approximately annual (special updates are possible) * FAQ contributions to: Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org or, dleibold(a)else.net or, aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca Introduction... This is a list of frequently asked questions made in the TELECOM Digest. New versions of the list are occasionally made available to deal with new, corrected or updated questions. Many contributors have made the FAQ what it is today (those listed in the "Who contributed to this FAQ?" question are hereby thanked). Check the Archives... Much of the telecom information that is requested can be found in the TELECOM Digest Home Page, via WWW at: http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives This web page should have links to this FAQ file, as well as various informational files on telecom subjects and the Digest itself. The Archives for TELECOM Digest should also be available via the Home Page. The TELECOM Digest Archives are also available through anonymous FTP at massis.lcs.mit.edu (login as anonymous, mail address for password, cd to telecom-archives). If possible, try to access the information via the TELECOM Digest Home Page first. You can also access the Archives using anonymous ftp at the mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives. Also, there is an email <--> ftp service operating called the Telecom Archives Email Information Service. Anything in the archives can be obtained automatically by email. Send mail addressed to: tel-archives(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu The subject does not matter. Include no text, sending just a blank letter. You will get a help file by return mail and should use that as a guide to ordering stuff by email from the archives. A list of terms commonly used in TELECOM Digest is contained in a "Glossary" section on the Home Page or in the Archives. Try direct inquiries... Direct netmail requests to persons posting on topics of interest to you may also be helpful. In fact, doing things "behind the scenes" can be more productive as the Digest Moderator is frequently swamped with other items. Future editions of this list could include netmail addresses of contacts for certain topics (say for ISDN, cellular, area codes/numbering plan, consumer protection matters, etc.); offers to that end would be appreciated. Where to contact the FAQ maintainer... Suggestions for other common questions, or corrections or other amendments to this file may be made to Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org (Fido 1:259/730) or dleibold(a)else.net or aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca. Note that any or all of these addresses are subject to change or discontinuance. This file is updated approximately annually; special updates may be made as time and circumstances permit. Disclaimer Type Stuff... All information herein should be considered subject to correction or change. No endorsements or promotions of specific products or companies are intended. Any specific references are made for example only, or in order to adequately deal with certain subjects.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: > > Igor Chudov writes: > > Bryan Reece wrote: > > > > > > It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece > > > reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open > > > newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. > > > > > > I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that > > > is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > > > > > > It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. > > > alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the > > > order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to > > > Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). > > > > > > > I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: > > > > :0 c > > | formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ > > sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl > > > > Any objections? > > > > - Igor. > > It would be more mailing-list-like to have the list in a separate, > isolated hierarchy. That would avoid the principal problems of Usenet > (delays and email spam). It is a very good objections. I would like readers to speak up and say their word for or against forwarding the list messages to alt.cypherpunks. If a significant number of people objects (2-3 is enough) I will disable this feature. - Igor.

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:52 PM 2/17/97 -0700, drose(a)AZStarNet.com wrote: >Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff >quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young >fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you >have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy >Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Yes, those nosy shopkeepers should really keep it to themselves! I remember at about age 14 being pissed because I'd been sold _10%_ nitric acid, when I was expecting the 70% stuff! Within a few weeks I was buying direct from his supplier! Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: List of reliable remailers
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Raph Levien wrote: > > information about remailer features and reliability. > > To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu > > There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of > interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: > http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html > Raph, Would it be possible to use your testing program to test reliability of cypherpunks mailing lists? Thank you. igor

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Re: Cypherpunks FAQ
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto wrote: > ISP_Ratings wrote: > > Yes--and given the role Dr. Vulis has played in this matter > > it would be most appropriate for him to write an FAQ (although > > I personally ignore most FAQs). >Perhaps it would be more appropriate for the good doctor to write a FUQs. Why not do it like the Declaration of Independence? A primary author puts the basic document together, and other persons with expertise in other important areas add to it, then it gets circulated on the list for comments and suggestions. "Other areas" not normally addressed in these kinds of documents should include subscribers' awareness that the crypto lists are a prime target of attention from federal agencies, et al, and that much of the material posted could be pure disinformation.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: > > It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece > reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open > newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. > > I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that > is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > > It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. > alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the > order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to > Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). > I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: :0 c | formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl Any objections? - Igor.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Bryan Reece 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Delivered-To: reece-cpunks-raw(a)nceye.net Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:07:25 -0600 (CST) Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com, wcampbel(a)peganet.com Reply-To: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov) From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) X-No-Archive: yes Organization: Bool Sheet Software X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Mark M. wrote: > - Newsgroups alt.cypherpunks, alt.cypherpunks.announce, > alt.cypherpunks.social, alt.cypherpunks.technical have been created. ... Along with several others. > - The distributed list is still forming and so far consists of > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, cypherpunks(a)ssz.com, and others of which I > do not know the location. A mail<->news gateway is planned, but not > yet in place, between the distributed list and the newsgroup(s). It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?).

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by Peter J. Capelli 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

< snow writes > > This is where I often get a little confused. > > Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the > constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes > _I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was > allowed to do. > > In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it > restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). > > My rights are WHATEVER ISN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION, and the government > can only, ONLY do what the constitution says it can. > > ??? ( non-US residents, tune out ... ) This is the way it ( the constitution ) was written to work; however, the feds have found an interesting way around this. Here, in two easy steps, is their secret backdoor through the constitution: Step 1: Take our money in federal taxes. Step 2: Refuse to give it back to us unless we follow their guidelines. It's been done time and time again, "for our own good". Witness the country-wide drinking age of 21 ( if states don't enact it, they lose their highway funds ), or the upcoming welfare "return" to the states. So, while the Federal government doesn't enact the legislation, they have a big enough stick to force states and local govt. to bend to their "suggestion". Sorry. -pete -- Pete Capelli, CNE UB Networks, Inc. pcapelli(a)ub.com ****** Finger pete(a)idaho.ubisg.com for my PGP Public key! ****** They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1759

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Alec 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 05:28 PM 2/17/97 -0800, you wrote: :anomalies in the new system, [now the big words!] :given the haste in which they must initiate a new distributed :mailing list system. : On the other hand, they may all be godless communists, seeking :to twist our fragile minds to do their bidding. (Much like myself) : :Toto I recant. You ARE nuts! Alec Niice post. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 Comment: Message PGP 2.6.2. encrypted. Public key available on request or from keyservers. iQCVAgUBMwkMFiKJGkNBIH7lAQHNKQP/dDV5v6wREV37IPkaJTfQqL35c4MyFNfK t4/KmgneKmzGX9uqGzd8Z6kCeRk5vBhAbrhVsqaOhvZouakj2YWe1JbRZWmy+gNR ohY2NERNi0Xm5S1PUrwjQAJutFlw2VV+CZ4GYa/0IV3Fn++GzeZFENbOt6zBTkEZ PsWVhjvoRPU= =3ZEn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: > > Igor Chudov writes: > > Bryan Reece wrote: > > > > > > It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece > > > reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open > > > newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. > > > > > > I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that > > > is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > > > > > > It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. > > > alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the > > > order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to > > > Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). > > > > > > > I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: > > > > :0 c > > | formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ > > sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl > > > > Any objections? > > > > - Igor. > > It would be more mailing-list-like to have the list in a separate, > isolated hierarchy. That would avoid the principal problems of Usenet > (delays and email spam). It is a very good objections. I would like readers to speak up and say their word for or against forwarding the list messages to alt.cypherpunks. If a significant number of people objects (2-3 is enough) I will disable this feature. - Igor.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mark M. wrote: > - Newsgroups alt.cypherpunks, alt.cypherpunks.announce, > alt.cypherpunks.social, alt.cypherpunks.technical have been created. ... Along with several others. > - The distributed list is still forming and so far consists of > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, cypherpunks(a)ssz.com, and others of which I > do not know the location. A mail<->news gateway is planned, but not > yet in place, between the distributed list and the newsgroup(s). It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com is receiving messages from > cypherpunks-unedited. I assume this means that the other hosts part > of the distributed list are also receiving cypherpunks-unedited > messages. Correct. > - Lance Cottrell is running another list (cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net) that is > not yet part of the distributed list. It is also receiving feed from > toad.com. I will subscribe to it. Now, it is important to realize that Lance's machine is probably much better connected than mine. Once we get connected with him, you may be better off reading cypherpunks from cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net. If you su-bsc-ribe to cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, it may take longer for articles to reach you. > If you don't want to miss any messages, then you should subscribe to both > cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net and one of the distributed list nodes. Since both > are receiving cypherpunks-unedited, you can safely unsubscribe from > cypherpunks-unedited, -flames, or the "main" list. Since these lists have > overlapping content, you should delete duplicates. I still think that it is a good idea to do nothing for several days and wait until the distributed network picks up cyberpass. Then, subscribe to any node of your liking. - Igor.

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Re: Constitution and a Right to Privacy
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > >> Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the > >> Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing > >> number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals > >> of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, > >> True Names revealed, etc.? [snip] > The issue hit when abortion advocates argued that a "woman's right to > privacy" allowed abortions. However, none of the enumerated rights made > this obvious. Bork has opined that no right to privacy can be inferred from > the Constitution. (And I always thought the "woman's right to privacy" > argument for abortion was flaky. Accepting such an argument, wouldn't > infanticide be equally protected by a woman's right to privacy?) A perfect invitation for rational argument. You obviously refer to the privacy/right to destroy your own personal property, which you pretty much have in the U.S., Constitution or no. So the issue above is whether the unborn baby is personal property (in the sense that I can chop off my hair or even my ear if I want to), or the child is personal property. The child issue has been settled effectively for many years now, but the controversy remains on the unborn. At least some of this privacy discussion would be better presented from another angle - how deep would the feds want to probe into the common folks' lives, what techniques would be employed, how would the serious folks get around those things, and where would the greatest (and most serious) amount of actions converge to flare up in the public consciousness (media, internet, etc.)?

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) >Bryan Reece wrote: >> >> It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. >> alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the >> order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to >> Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). Well, Lance Cottrell would appear to be a good person to ask on this matter, but... >I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: >:0 c >| formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ > sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl >Any objections? given that mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu gets one of its USENET feeds via cyberpass.net, it would appear to be unnecessary if this recipe is in use. However, I do have one problem with this recipe: lack of loop prevention if a news2mail gateway is going in the other direction. I don't know, but the mail2news gateway folks may not be too happy with this idea either, given massively increased load; this is particularly true since IIRC misc.misc is _not_ the proper place to crosspost stuff from & to; it's only for stuff that _really_ doesn't fall under any other category. (I've crossposted this message to the remailer-operators mailing list to make sure it gets to the operators of the gateways in question.) In regards to your later query about whether people want their postings going to Usenet, might I suggest that this be individual to the given distributed mailing list? In other words, since the recipe is logically going to have to not forward to a gateway messages from other mailing lists (since it's not a good idea to have multiple copies of the same message arriving at the gateway if it can be helped; better to filter it out beforehand), some of the mailing lists can forward and the others cannot. (One could even determine this behavior on application of the proper X-header, although I never trust various mailing systems to forward such intact.) The same could also be done with gatewaying _from_ Usenet - if the news2mail gateway feeds to whatever individual lists sign up to it and they _don't_ forward such messages to others, people can decide whether or not to receive Usenet postings on alt.cypherpunks.* by which list they subscribe to. -Allen P.S. A thank you to Reece for setting up a gateway; I had looked at the program and did _not_ much like the idea of having to maintain it on my limited knowledge of C/C++ and mailing software.

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:52 PM 2/17/97 -0700, drose(a)AZStarNet.com wrote: >Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff >quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young >fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you >have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy >Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Yes, those nosy shopkeepers should really keep it to themselves! I remember at about age 14 being pissed because I'd been sold _10%_ nitric acid, when I was expecting the 70% stuff! Within a few weeks I was buying direct from his supplier! Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by drose＠azstarnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My dear fellow: I suppose you missed the notion that, on the Internet, *some* folks know that you are a dog. P.S. You, Dimi, D. Thorn, Dimi, "Nurdane Oskas", Dimi, "Awaken to Me", Dimi,"World's Youngest Cypherpunk", Dimi, "Andre the Cypherpunk", Dimi, etc. etc. are to be commended if not appreciated for your efforts in ruining an amazingly good thing. See you in alt.baloney. Incidentally, do you habitually defecate (FYI, that's "to discharge feces from the bowels") in your own single-wide? (Son, that's a rhetorical question.) The very fact that you shamelessly and boneheadedly refuse to keep your head down after all of the damage that you and your lot have caused (with 1K+ lurkers "looking on") is worthy, certainly, of some serious consideration. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Fhtagn! >drose(a)azstarnet.com wrote: >> >> With regard to chemicals, may I suggest a perusal of the PGI and PML lists >> (respectively, Pyrotechnics Guild Inc. and Pyrotechnics Mailing List)? > > Sounds like this is an on-topic post for the 'flames' list. > >Toto > > >

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