December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

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by Quantum Communications 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: faulty moderation software: duplicate messages
by Mark M. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- All messages with "Sender: owner-cypherpunks-unedited(a)toad.com" are received from the flames list. The difference between the unedited and moderated lists is that the moderated list changes the message ID, appending toad.com, and deletes all received headers before "majordom(a)localhost.*by toad.com". None of the messages are being doubled; this is just the result of buggy software Here's the recipe I use to filter out the three separate lists: :0 * ^Sender: owner-cypherpunks.*(a)toad.com { :0 * ^Sender: owner-cypherpunks-unedited(a)toad.com flames :0 * -1^1 ^Received: * 3^1 ^Received:.*from majordom(a)localhost.*by toad.com * ^Message-Id:.*toad.com in.cpunks :0 unedited } -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMvuzrSzIPc7jvyFpAQFSywf/YqoJLI6crxcL9qJO/CXJKWMy5NCwilIX ZNgt5YkhMUpOzGtFLEYXdiw2XVisS0fWy2X7rGul7+BYYuVAM2tnOTKWuavufJXe KhIp41KKHe7dFWDarm5VwCt7pulRM4xVinpu0+T8M/1wfRLbC4bctJXGMSYSM9Pz U+IBqSbi3MkrE3lAwJtirvC3qDgQXvLqHQRVwYkv8wmVoQXGKCGuiM4YEu3TamvH bBPEPHfh7gbtVtBFiUri7jtGLHv6kROb0/wuREgkxHd0wLld/3L7GRClIgy8b+1K 6TeuoO32SA6tp+a9yytQUuf/WvueGdFSbLwXHozMvRu5+WOcqa8Hbw== =MQlk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Ken Bass (counsel for Phil Karn) Interviewed on "Real Time" Monday
by ISP-TV Main Contact 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** ISP-TV Program Announcement: Ken Bass (counsel for Phil Karn) interviewed live on "Real Time" *** *** Monday, Jan. 27 *** *** 9:00 PM ET *** Ken Bass is a partner in the firm of Venable, Baetjer, Howard & Civiletti, LLP, and is the head of that firm's Appellate Practice Group. Recently Venable served as counsel to Phil Karn during his dispute with the Department of State concerning export of a diskette containing the source code for cryptographic algorithms published in the book _Applied_ _Cryptography_, having already received permission to export the book. For the past 20 years Bass has practiced law in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area, concentrating in civil litigation and appellate advocacy. From 1977 until 1981 he left private practice to serve as the first Counsel for Intelligence Policy at the Department of Justice. In that position he advised the Attorney General and the White House on the legal aspects of a variety of intelligence and national security matters. He also has served as a Special Master in a FOIA litigation in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia to review code word classified files concerning the Iran hostage rescue mission for Judge Louis Oberdorfer. Call-in questions will be taken during the show at (301) 847-6571. **** This video interview can be viewed on the ISP-TV main CU-SeeMe reflector at IP 205.197.248.54, or other ISP-TV affiliate reflectors listed at http://isptv.digex.net/members.html. See URL http://isptv.digex.net for more information about the ISP-TV Network To get email about future programming on ISP-TV, email the word "subscribe" to isptv-prog-request(a)isptv.digex.net. To obtain Enhanced CU-SeeMe software, go to: http://goliath.wpine.com/cudownload.htm

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Re: Metzger, Denninger square off
by David E. Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 01:24 PM 2/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >[Forwarded from Wired news. Let's cut to the chase: Which side is in the >right? Who can tell me, in plain and simple language, who is fighting for >individual freedom and property rights, and who is not?] Hee... I think they're both just after money. > 5:01 pm PST 6 Feb 97 - A proposal by the International Ad Hoc > Committee (IAHC) to expand the number of Internet top-level domain > names is stirring opposition among alternative domain name providers. Well, of course. AlterNIC does charge a few bucks for registering in some of their TLDs. I'm not sure about the other alternative-name servers, but somehow I doubt it's a charity program. And of course we all know about InterNIC's cash cow... [the proposed new TLDs] .firm .store Somehow, these two look rather similar to me. .web Actually a good idea :) A lot of the .com congestion is from companies that are virtually-hosted for the sole purpose of running a Web site with the www. prefix. .arts .rec .info How many of these would fit into the .org (or even .us) domains? .nom Nah. Just not classy enough. Now, a .nym TLD... :-) > They also think the new domain names will "fragment" the > Internet, leaving some users unable to communicate with others, if a > server does not recognize the name request. How so? AlterNIC et al. aren't exactly globally recognized anyway. If we're going to have more TLDs, it's at least less "bad" to have them coming from the place where names have been coming from anyway (InterNIC). No matter what, it'll be a long time before _any_ new TLDs are universally recognized, just because somewhere, someone's sysadmin is asleep at the wheel. (Probably at my ISP :) dave -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAwUBMvuybnEZTZHwCEpFAQGKFwf5AbWTx3mWlJ7QOsHnegxAb9Q9y5Dhi1EH If7qLWlZYPerjmWlSE72isintDADDdh81d9xyPJ1kYtR9KRE5p0WAbL5pf2sl6eT g7Z1LzS449cHesEmoSATeaDc0I0kqKVAxVUNyJxfraf6gGGquw2EpLtKZME6tV8o ESZEkXFp5bdKC3+Vf1PiuTixjnpDrgUhNshUB0xCKFDgYqGGAEoKSVO8cEYWNE4o VAH7eH537etNjnnE/r15BxHt9I3BxEU5lxM8/cuwpHKOSouGnghpLyAB426gllc4 PZNj6WhM/trkUkBj3BBWduB8DR4gwhPl71g1665IyLWMDpOLeItSpA== =4zWF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: IEEE Communications
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>A friend called this evening to let me know the February issue is dedicated >to electronic cash and its implications. I'm no longer an IEEE member. If >any of the various list members care to excerpt and comment on some of the >more interesting portions, I'm sure it would be appreciated. > >--Steve Correction: It's the February issue of IEE Spectrum, subtitled "Technology and the Electronic Economy." --Steve

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Re: automated moderation system
by David E. Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 01:15 PM 2/7/97 -0800, you wrote: [... re: a auto moderations system...] >now, the mailing list works as follows. people always receive >posts from people they put on their "pass" lists. mail from >entities on their "zap" lists is always trashed. This much, you can do on your own. Just filter "zap" messages to /dev/null or somesuch. (But I see its purpose; keep reading.) [... using other's pass/zap lists as reputation markers...] It's a good idea in theory, but would put a lot of load on the server. For every message * every list subscriber, it has to _at_least_ look up the pass/zap criteria, and possibly do some number- crunching based on the whole database of pass/zap lists, and keep track of how long each message has been sitting in the queue and its ratings by other people. Also, Mallet could skew the reputations by subscribing with a dozen other addresses (which M. created just to get the extra "votes"), decide to have all of them "zap" Alice, and then Bob might never see Alice's intelligent and thoughtful messages. (Presumably, Mallet keeps the bogus addresses subscribed, just dumping all mail into the bitbucket; any user who leaves the list shouldn't have any weight in the calculations any longer.) This also doesn't even address anonymous remailers; Chuck and Dave might both use the same remailer, even though Chuck only posts good, meaningful messages (in whatever context) and Dave only posts flaming ASCII art :) dave (who doesn't post flaming ascii art, honest) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAwUBMvuwDnEZTZHwCEpFAQHZMwf+MNIyeFS53QW4LxZzvitFi259xEso3bXT WXfAqJx7pF8aefZ7U2hBEwPzFyBR5fJWrn4Vekpl6ZK82xJsU2x6Az9+I2D1TYH/ dMAar9S+GcPPlyJ5QegWQ04VopmGzGvDZ69lL1mkJZnl9RT3jWOdVBcmUUUSqrsz LMGdVxrglx1QIkoZu/P69RheK37HJHiTG6pSokQRQPqyU2VVEwg44yJDicPfjlke raBLk6EiA6tJ2azKMshEBLm00EjGSHLmstRDqE8x6kb2WMMgCchL9KIe9XIz7fCN o0L8fTZMME7ZF82/sacnUnzdK6sJ5oAtmgUiT7cZm7Jqo3WU0OmUOw== =mSMn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: ANNOUNCEMNT: February 1997 keysigning session
by Ed Falk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- We have enough people who want to have a PGP keysigning session at tommorrow's meeting to make it worthwhile. We'll probably be doing it at 17:00 or thereabouts. If you want to join in, let me know ASAP. Include your key or a pointer to where I can download it. -ed falk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQBVAwUBMvu/eDLd6HIbO1jdAQFFRQIAire/x65aP/tlAiYRT+sP2YbztX45P07I Hk9YqDrW0Yd6sdYNtIvdl6MreklF5sI6++IcDH0nGs1Ifam1cNbEyA== =rWsE -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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No Subject
by My Account 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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BXA Encryption Regs
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Federal Register: February 7, 1997, Page 5797-5798: Bureau of Export Administration Sensors and Instrumentation Technical Advisory Committee; Partially Closed Meeting A meeting will be held March 4, 1997, 9 a.m., in the Herbert C. Hoover Building, Room 1617M-2, 14th Street between Constitution and Pennsylvania Avenues, N.W., Washington, DC. Agenda, General Session 1. Opening remarks by the Chairman. 2. Report on the status of The Wassenaar Arrangement. 3. Discussion on the Encryption Reg. 4. Presentation of papers or comments by the public. ---------- A bit more on this in the full notice at: http://jya.com/bxa020797.txt ---------- Note: February 13 is the cutoff for comments on EAR for EI: http://jya.com/bxa123096.txt

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is there a FAQ
by Rodney Thayer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I am trying to run IPSEC on Linux and I have questions. Before I ask, is there an FAQ? Rodney Thayer <rodney(a)sabletech.com> +1 617 332 7292 Sable Technology Corp, 246 Walnut St., Newton MA 02160 USA Fax: +1 617 332 7970 http://www.shore.net/~sable "Developers of communications software"

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Re: is there a FAQ
by Hugh Daniel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Currently the only documentation for the Linux IPSEC is the INSTALL file. There is no FAQ. If someone from a free country (not the one controled by the USG gang) is interested in writing some doc or a FAQ that would be great! I am working on getting 3DES working (it's in the ipsec-0.4 code base, but no doc on how to configure it!) now and could use more documentation my self. ||ugh Daniel Linux FreeSWAN Project hugh(a)toad.com

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Sandy suppresses truth about his moderation policy
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Below are some interesting facts implying that: 1) Sandy uses a bot to reject articles of people he does not like 2) When I exposed him with an article showing all Received: dates, he a) rejected the article exposing him and b) changed his moderation software so that Received: headers for the cypherpunks-flames do not show the times when messages came in 3) Sandy apologized to Tim May for rejecting one of Vulis's articles, and yet he rejects my message quoting same article. I question how genuine were his apologies to Tim. At this point, I have enough data to conclude that * Sandy is not a good moderator * Sandy does not have the interests of his readership in his mind * Sandy should not be trusted At this point, two events are likely to happen: either moderation ceases, or Sandy and John will pull the plug on the unedited and flames list. - Igor. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Note that there are no more incoming Received: lines in the message that went to flames, BUT yesterday the received lines were there. Note also that my address (From: line) has been rewritten in such a way that my name disappeared. I believe that the latter is due to a sloppy perl script that got screwed up by presence of "@" character in my name. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Received: (from geek@localhost) by manifold.algebra.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) id SAA06751 for ichudov; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 18:57:04 -0600 Received: (from root@localhost) by manifold.algebra.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with UUCP id JAA03038 for geek+test+cypherpunks-flames(a)algebra.com; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:12:23 -0600 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id KAA16283 for <geek+test+cypherpunks-flames(a)algebra.com>; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:11:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA24873; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 07:11:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199702071511.HAA24873(a)toad.com> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:34:36 -0600 (CST) From: ichudov(a)algebra.com To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>, tcmay(a)got.net Subject: Re: anonymous remailers Sender: geek(a)algebra.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO [I am sending a copy of my article to Tim just to make sure] Sandy Sandfort wrote: > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > SANDY SANDFORT > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > C'punks, > > On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Timothy C. May wrote: > > > Why was this message (attached below) sent to the "Flames" list? (*) It > > contains an assertion that the remailer operators are colluding to reveal > > identities, and this is surely a fit topic for discussion. > > > > (* I have temporarily subscribed to the Flames list to see just what it is > > being filtered or censored by Sandy. I received this message, and it had > > the header "Sender: owner-cypherpunks-unedited(a)toad.com," thus I surmise it > > is a "Flames" message. It would help, by the way, if messages were more > > clearly labelled by the Moderator as to which bucket he placed them in.) > > Currently, there are three lists. It looks as though the message > in question appeared on the Unedited list. This is NOT the same > as the Flames list. > > I don't recall where I sorted that particular post to after I > read it on the Unedited list. If it went to the "wrong" list, > my apologies to the author. As I indicated before, I don't think I am attaching Vulis's posting below, so that the mistake could be corrected. Judging by the dates in the headers, it went to flames list in 3 seconds after arrival to toad.com. That makes me think that somehow it got routed there without human involvement. > a 100% solution is possible, but I think I'm running in the high > 90s under the criteria I enunciated. Not perfection, but a > definite improvement over the prior condition. I see three problems with the current state of the list: 1) There is no charter and no criteria that I am aware of, so your 90% statement is meaningless 2) Moderation policy has not been set (or voted upon) by the readers, therefore it was not optimised to serve the readers 3) Crypto-relevant posts, not containing any flames, get rejected. >From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Thu Feb 6 22:20:35 1997 Return-Path: <cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com> Received: (from root@localhost) by manifold.algebra.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with UUCP id WAA12996; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:20:29 -0600 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id XAA01326; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 23:14:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA08550; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from uu.psi.com (uu.psi.com [38.9.86.2]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA08545; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA07700 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 97 23:07:09 -0500 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Thu, 06 Feb 97 22:24:48 EST for cypherpunks(a)toad.com To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: anonymous remailers From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Comments: All power to the ZOG! Message-Id: <iJkq2D46w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 22:22:05 EST In-Reply-To: <32fa39d8.16371604(a)mail-relay.internetmci.com> Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO c.musselman(a)internetmci.com (Charley Musselman) writes: > C'punks -- > When I told a friend about the alt.drugs.pot cultivation newsgroup > and suggested that he use an anonymous remailer to post to the group, > he laughed and said, "Who do you suppose runs the remailers? ATF, > FBI, DEA, that's who!" Gee, it makes sense to this paranoid. Does > anyone know the answer? Specifically, how can we choose a trusted > remailer? Even if the feds are not directtly involved, the so-called "cypher punk" remailers are run by people who should not be trusted. Check out their remailer-operators list: it's full of announcements that some specific person posted something via the remailer that the operator didn't like. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: My messages not appearing on either of the lists?
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"mpd(a)netcom.com" "Mike Duvos" 7-FEB-1997 20:56:39.36 >That's all very nice, but I should point out that I have not yet >seen my message to which you are responding on the filtered list. >Others mileage may vary. IIRC, Majordomo sends out messages _approximately_ in the order of the person's subscription. In any event, it has to send them out in _some_ order, and on a mailing list as large as cypherpunks, it's going to take a while to get from one end to the other. -Allen

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Dear Cypherpunks /from NHK Clew
by hanabusa＠bnn-net.or.jp 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Cypherpunks, We are a film crew from NHK, Japanese Public Television (Japan's largest TV network). As you may have all seen the announcement posting, we would like to attend tomorrow's CP physical meeting for filming. We consider the "Crypto War" you are all fighting, not only a U.S domestic issue. It is a historic process which would effect the basic order/system of the global network society for the 21st century. In the midst of the ongoing changes of the idea of how a nation, a corporation and an individual ought to be, we would like to portray your assertions and proposals through the discussions of tomorrow's CP meeting, demonstrations, speeches and booings(just kidding..). We assure you all that we will do our best not be of your distractions. (I know you won't, but) I hope you don't show up with a tie and a three piece suit just because you'll be on TV... ;-) We look forward to the usual (or perhaps more than ever) Cypherpunkish meeting tomorrow! _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Shuichiro Hanabusa (hanabusa(a)bnn-net.or.jp) Producer/Special Programs NHK Enterprises 21 Inc. Location: San Mateo/Carifornia _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/

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Brassard on Grover's Shake
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Gilles Brassard writes on Grover's "quantum shake" searching algorithm, demonstrates how it would break DES, and assays the promise of QC research. He notes that enviable NSA funds favor LAQC. ----- http://jya.com/qshake.htm

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Enlightened commentary on Netizen.
by das＠razor.engr.sgi.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

First, Rebecca Vesely has a special report, the main thrust of which is that three firms being allowed to export 56 bit encryption indicates flexibility on the part of the government. http://www.netizen.com/netizen/97/05/special2a.html To top it off, here are two gems from the followup discussion. http://www.netizen.com/cgi-bin/interact/replies_all?msg.37387 2. 56 ONLY A SLIGHTLY SMALLER JOKE Ric Allan (ricrok) on Wed, 5 Feb 97 11:53 PST If it takes a college student four hours to break a 40bit code it should take him/her about six hours to do the same to 56bits. Then what excuses are the government and its butt-kissing companies going to give us for not allowing *real* coding? 4. 56bits will not take 6 hours to crack Piers Cawley (pdcawley) on Thu, 6 Feb 97 05:05 PST Rick seems to be missing the point about strong encryption -- the reason that DES/IDEA encryption is hard to crack is because the key system is based on the fact that factoring big numbers is a long, slow tedious process which gets exponentially harder as the length of the number increases. What this means is that it'll probably take the college student, ooh... 24 hours to crack a 56 bit key. However, the question has to be asked, why the fuck should we non US citizens go and buy cryptographic software that is deliberately coded to allow the US government to read our mail? -- Anil Das

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Re: NETLINK_IPSEC
by Hugh Daniel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The #define you are looking for is in: /usr/src/linux/include/net/ip_forward.h in my 2.0.25 source tree. I sugjest that you upgrate to the current 2.0.XX kernel (I have used 2..0.28 with the ipsec-0.4 distrabution). ||ugh Daniel Linux FreeSWAN Project hugh(a)toad.com

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Re: My messages not appearing on either of the lists?
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"mpd(a)netcom.com" "Mike Duvos" 7-FEB-1997 20:56:39.36 >That's all very nice, but I should point out that I have not yet >seen my message to which you are responding on the filtered list. >Others mileage may vary. IIRC, Majordomo sends out messages _approximately_ in the order of the person's subscription. In any event, it has to send them out in _some_ order, and on a mailing list as large as cypherpunks, it's going to take a while to get from one end to the other. -Allen

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NETLINK_IPSEC
by Jeremey Barrett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- When running 'make modules', NETLINK_IPSEC and IPFWD_NOTTLDEC are undeclared. I added NETLINK_IPSEC to include/net/netlink.h, but IPFWD_NOTTLDEC is not to be found. I'm running kernel 2.0.0, the INSTALL.txt file in the ipsec distribution mentions 2.0.24, is that the minimum kernel to run on? Thanks. - -- =-----------------------------------------------------------------------= Jeremey Barrett VeriWeb Internet Corp. Senior Software Engineer http://www.veriweb.com/ PGP Key fingerprint = 3B 42 1E D4 4B 17 0D 80 DC 59 6F 59 04 C3 83 64 =-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBMvvG3C/fy+vkqMxNAQECrQQAgjHE7CIQZyTHV9wfLvuoxk8TkOVHMSJD +gpHAme20wSOOtIVw3ZBJxDvCiFiyHFaoEI0o/Xkqs6fXUoRgjQkLvuSJi3dgm+N 3gVB7Gf14dK14qChJyEyPMlMXAe2hWehxojTizS2LHfX7gvzPHMN0D5DGEKsM+MN wYfDdGzNsX8= =lK+H -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Is Sandy really censoring criticisms of Stronghold, his product?
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > At 10:07 PM +0000 2/7/97, Against Moderation wrote: > >Okay, I went through my old mail, and I'm fairly sure this is the > >message. I'm convinced it never went to the flames list, and now that > >I've found out I'm on the -unedited list after all, I think it > >probably didn't go to the regular cypherpunks list either. Can people > >on the various lists confirm this for me? > >A lot of people out there are subscribing to the cypherpunks-flames > >and cypherpunks lists thinking that they will see everything that gets > >rejected (albeit with a substantial delay). If this is not the case, > >it should be made clear. Otherwise, it's not moderation, but > >dishonesty. Normally I'd address just the list, but in this case I'm sure you'll understand. Check the archives of Sandy's moderation announcements, and I believe you'll see where he claimed that although *all* messages would make it to the -unedited list, he admitted that some of those would not make it to either the -edited or -flames lists, due to the anomalies of hand-editing.

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Dear Cypherpunks /from NHK Clew
by Sh.Hanabusa 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Cypherpunks, We are a film crew from NHK, Japanese Public Television (Japan's largest TV network). As you may have all seen the announcement posting, we would like to attend tomorrow's CP physical meeting for filming. We consider the "Crypto War" you are all fighting, not only a U.S domestic issue. It is a historic process which would effect the basic order/system of the global network society for the 21st century. In the midst of the ongoing changes of the idea of how a nation, a corporation and an individual ought to be, we would like to portray your assertions and proposals through the discussions of tomorrow's CP meeting, demonstrations, speeches and booings(just kidding..). We assure you all that we will do our best not be of your distractions. (I know you won't, but) I hope you don't show up with a tie and a three piece suit just because you'll be on TV... ;-) We look forward to the usual (or perhaps more than ever) Cypherpunkish meeting tomorrow! _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Shuichiro Hanabusa (hanabusa(a)bnn-net.or.jp) Producer/Special Programs NHK Enterprises 21 Inc. Location: San Mateo/Carifornia _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/

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Sandy suppresses truth about his moderation policy
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Below are some interesting facts implying that: 1) Sandy uses a bot to reject articles of people he does not like 2) When I exposed him with an article showing all Received: dates, he a) rejected the article exposing him and b) changed his moderation software so that Received: headers for the cypherpunks-flames do not show the times when messages came in 3) Sandy apologized to Tim May for rejecting one of Vulis's articles, and yet he rejects my message quoting same article. I question how genuine were his apologies to Tim. At this point, I have enough data to conclude that * Sandy is not a good moderator * Sandy does not have the interests of his readership in his mind * Sandy should not be trusted At this point, two events are likely to happen: either moderation ceases, or Sandy and John will pull the plug on the unedited and flames list. - Igor. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Note that there are no more incoming Received: lines in the message that went to flames, BUT yesterday the received lines were there. Note also that my address (From: line) has been rewritten in such a way that my name disappeared. I believe that the latter is due to a sloppy perl script that got screwed up by presence of "@" character in my name. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Received: (from geek@localhost) by manifold.algebra.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) id SAA06751 for ichudov; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 18:57:04 -0600 Received: (from root@localhost) by manifold.algebra.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with UUCP id JAA03038 for geek+test+cypherpunks-flames(a)algebra.com; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:12:23 -0600 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id KAA16283 for <geek+test+cypherpunks-flames(a)algebra.com>; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:11:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA24873; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 07:11:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199702071511.HAA24873(a)toad.com> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:34:36 -0600 (CST) From: ichudov(a)algebra.com To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>, tcmay(a)got.net Subject: Re: anonymous remailers Sender: geek(a)algebra.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO [I am sending a copy of my article to Tim just to make sure] Sandy Sandfort wrote: > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > SANDY SANDFORT > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > C'punks, > > On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Timothy C. May wrote: > > > Why was this message (attached below) sent to the "Flames" list? (*) It > > contains an assertion that the remailer operators are colluding to reveal > > identities, and this is surely a fit topic for discussion. > > > > (* I have temporarily subscribed to the Flames list to see just what it is > > being filtered or censored by Sandy. I received this message, and it had > > the header "Sender: owner-cypherpunks-unedited(a)toad.com," thus I surmise it > > is a "Flames" message. It would help, by the way, if messages were more > > clearly labelled by the Moderator as to which bucket he placed them in.) > > Currently, there are three lists. It looks as though the message > in question appeared on the Unedited list. This is NOT the same > as the Flames list. > > I don't recall where I sorted that particular post to after I > read it on the Unedited list. If it went to the "wrong" list, > my apologies to the author. As I indicated before, I don't think I am attaching Vulis's posting below, so that the mistake could be corrected. Judging by the dates in the headers, it went to flames list in 3 seconds after arrival to toad.com. That makes me think that somehow it got routed there without human involvement. > a 100% solution is possible, but I think I'm running in the high > 90s under the criteria I enunciated. Not perfection, but a > definite improvement over the prior condition. I see three problems with the current state of the list: 1) There is no charter and no criteria that I am aware of, so your 90% statement is meaningless 2) Moderation policy has not been set (or voted upon) by the readers, therefore it was not optimised to serve the readers 3) Crypto-relevant posts, not containing any flames, get rejected. >From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Thu Feb 6 22:20:35 1997 Return-Path: <cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com> Received: (from root@localhost) by manifold.algebra.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with UUCP id WAA12996; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:20:29 -0600 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id XAA01326; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 23:14:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA08550; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from uu.psi.com (uu.psi.com [38.9.86.2]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA08545; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA07700 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 97 23:07:09 -0500 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Thu, 06 Feb 97 22:24:48 EST for cypherpunks(a)toad.com To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: anonymous remailers From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Comments: All power to the ZOG! Message-Id: <iJkq2D46w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 22:22:05 EST In-Reply-To: <32fa39d8.16371604(a)mail-relay.internetmci.com> Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO c.musselman(a)internetmci.com (Charley Musselman) writes: > C'punks -- > When I told a friend about the alt.drugs.pot cultivation newsgroup > and suggested that he use an anonymous remailer to post to the group, > he laughed and said, "Who do you suppose runs the remailers? ATF, > FBI, DEA, that's who!" Gee, it makes sense to this paranoid. Does > anyone know the answer? Specifically, how can we choose a trusted > remailer? Even if the feds are not directtly involved, the so-called "cypher punk" remailers are run by people who should not be trusted. Check out their remailer-operators list: it's full of announcements that some specific person posted something via the remailer that the operator didn't like. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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BXA Encryption Regs
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Federal Register: February 7, 1997, Page 5797-5798: Bureau of Export Administration Sensors and Instrumentation Technical Advisory Committee; Partially Closed Meeting A meeting will be held March 4, 1997, 9 a.m., in the Herbert C. Hoover Building, Room 1617M-2, 14th Street between Constitution and Pennsylvania Avenues, N.W., Washington, DC. Agenda, General Session 1. Opening remarks by the Chairman. 2. Report on the status of The Wassenaar Arrangement. 3. Discussion on the Encryption Reg. 4. Presentation of papers or comments by the public. ---------- A bit more on this in the full notice at: http://jya.com/bxa020797.txt ---------- Note: February 13 is the cutoff for comments on EAR for EI: http://jya.com/bxa123096.txt

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Brassard on Grover's Shake
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Gilles Brassard writes on Grover's "quantum shake" searching algorithm, demonstrates how it would break DES, and assays the promise of QC research. He notes that enviable NSA funds favor LAQC. ----- http://jya.com/qshake.htm

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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Hash functions
by Huge Cajones Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. Mayo's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is cross-ruminated. o o o o o /~> <><><> <> Timothy C. Mayo o...(\ |||||| ||

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Re: ANNOUNCEMNT: February 1997 keysigning session
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199702072349.PAA20677(a)peregrine.eng.sun.com>, on 02/07/97 at 05:49 PM, Ed.Falk(a)Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk) said: >We have enough people who want to have a PGP keysigning session at tommorrow's >meeting to make it worthwhile. We'll probably be doing it at 17:00 or >thereabouts. Unfortunatly I have too much work to make the 3,000 miles to get there. :( Would it be possiable at the next meeting to set up a CU-SEE-ME session for those of us who do not live in the Bay Area? Thanks, - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. Finger whgiii(a)amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info - ----------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I'm an OS/2 developer...I don't NEED a life! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Registered User E-Secure v1.1 0000000 iQCVAwUBMvv9D49Co1n+aLhhAQE1lgP/Sh0Mszii6dvSkssMI3rTHllz+EbFrtKk k3qOPFkBSRbsaSXBTopenUjNpbbHANgzzUJRnekaUJIyZbTGRY9PF+QAFcsF/vXI 2HIjnStiyXdgESPE0YFPRiTzrkR5/18Ga2s20AlWXgaQApSSmIAhwrFWjmi1kQws y0n+CZwqa0U= =A+nO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Enlightened commentary on Netizen.
by Anil Das 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

First, Rebecca Vesely has a special report, the main thrust of which is that three firms being allowed to export 56 bit encryption indicates flexibility on the part of the government. http://www.netizen.com/netizen/97/05/special2a.html To top it off, here are two gems from the followup discussion. http://www.netizen.com/cgi-bin/interact/replies_all?msg.37387 2. 56 ONLY A SLIGHTLY SMALLER JOKE Ric Allan (ricrok) on Wed, 5 Feb 97 11:53 PST If it takes a college student four hours to break a 40bit code it should take him/her about six hours to do the same to 56bits. Then what excuses are the government and its butt-kissing companies going to give us for not allowing *real* coding? 4. 56bits will not take 6 hours to crack Piers Cawley (pdcawley) on Thu, 6 Feb 97 05:05 PST Rick seems to be missing the point about strong encryption -- the reason that DES/IDEA encryption is hard to crack is because the key system is based on the fact that factoring big numbers is a long, slow tedious process which gets exponentially harder as the length of the number increases. What this means is that it'll probably take the college student, ooh... 24 hours to crack a 56 bit key. However, the question has to be asked, why the fuck should we non US citizens go and buy cryptographic software that is deliberately coded to allow the US government to read our mail? -- Anil Das

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Re: Dear Cypherpunks /from NHK Clew
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm sorry I can't drive the 500 miles to the meeting, but in Los Angeles, the USA's #2 city, there are NO meetings. Sad but true. People in Los Angeles just don't comply with censorship as well as those in the Bay Area, apparently. Anyway, please don't base the whole story on what goes on at the meeting, since the people who show up at the meeting are the ones who most agree with John and Sandy. Do you know what I mean? There's an assumption in the USA, which even the cypherpunks share, that the rogue elements of the government are to be considered "innocent until proven guilty", even after the fact when they are caught and never prosecuted. Someday, when we have enough research data on this current series of events, we will be able to expose the money trail which demonstrates the motivations of the "list" owners. In the meantime, I trust you'll not be taken in by the sweet-talk you'll get in San Francisco. Sh.Hanabusa wrote: > We are a film crew from NHK, Japanese Public Television (Japan's largest > TV network). As you may have all seen the announcement posting, we would > like to attend tomorrow's CP physical meeting for filming. > We consider the "Crypto War" you are all fighting, not only a U.S domestic > issue. It is a historic process which would effect the basic order/system > of the global network society for the 21st century. > In the midst of the ongoing changes of the idea of how a nation, a corporation > and an individual ought to be, we would like to portray your assertions and > proposals through the discussions of tomorrow's CP meeting, demonstrations, > speeches and booings(just kidding..). > We assure you all that we will do our best not be of your distractions. > (I know you won't, but) I hope you don't show up with a tie and a three > piece suit just because you'll be on TV... ;-) > We look forward to the usual (or perhaps more than ever) Cypherpunkish > meeting tomorrow!

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What else do I need for an Internet Server
by Otto Matic 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What else do I need for an internet server? HP Vectra Towers 2 each 486 cyrex chips 50 meg processor Need high speed hard drives. These are the Tall Towers that have multiple drives, these are server towers. I think I have a router Hub. And a couple LAN cards. That's all I have. But I just got them, and I want to use them. I assume I will be using some kind of UNIX software. Thanks: otto =-=-=-=-=- Otto Matic "Fuckin' A, Miller!" Bud, Repo Man --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------

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The Frightening Dangers of Moderation
by Against Moderation 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Well, folks, tonight I have witnessed the frightening dangers of moderation and censorship first-hand, and would like to tell you what has happened. I think there is an important lesson to be learned from these incidents. Before I explain what has happened, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Though I've thought the moderation of cypherpunks was a terrible idea from the start and am even more convinced of it now, I don't assign any blame to Sandy. I believe he offered to moderate the list with the best of intentions, and I sincerely appreciate his efforts to try to revive what was once a fantastic mailing list, even if in my opinion those efforts have backfired. Sandy has been a valuable advocate of cypherpunk beliefs and a lively contributor to cypherpunks list for a long time. Though the moderation experiment has resulted in some terrible consequences, we can't blame him for what has happened. If the events I have witnessed tonight occured with such a high-standing member of the cypherpunks community in charge, the cause of them can only be the very nature of moderation and censorship. I don't think any of us could have done much better in Sandy's shoes. Now, what happened tonight? As some of you may recall, a month or so ago I vehemently argued against the elimination of the cypherpunks-unedited mailingt list. Some people (though no one associated with toad.com) were claiming that 3 mailing lists might be too much load, and that having cypherpunks and cypherpunks-flames would be enough. I argued that not only would the delay of waiting for a decision put alternate cypherpunks moderators at a disadvantage, it would make it farm more difficult to convince people of the moderator's honesty as there would be no guarantee that messages made it to either list. Fortunately, cypherpunks-unedited did get created (it seems no one "in charge" ever intended not to create it). Well, as it turns out, a number of messages have made it neither to cypherpunks nor to cypherpunks-flames. Making matters worse, however, not only are certain messages being suppressed from both lists, but even messages mentioning that fact get suppressed from both the cypherpunks and the cypherpunks-flames lists! Here's exactly what happened. I was beginning to believe that Dmitri Vulis had sent an (admitedly objectionable) message to the cypherpunks mailing list, but that the message had gone to neither the cypherpunks nor the cypherpunks-flames lists. Since I was under the impression that every article was supposed to go to one list or the other, and many people probably still believe that, I mentioned this somewhat startling fact on the cypherpunks mailing list, I believe in response to a post by Tim May on the same subject. Tim replied (in a message Cc'ed to cypherpunks--though I don't think it went anywhere but to -unedited), asking me in the message, "Can you send to the list, with a copy to me, the articles CENSOREDCENSOREDCENS OREDCENSOREDCENSORE?" I therefore went back through my mail archives and found a copy of the message that I believed had gone to neither mailing list. I sent it to Tim and to cypherpunks. I prepended a few paragraphs in which I asked people to confirm that the message had gone to neither mailing list. Among other things in those paragraphs, I stated that Vulis's message was "verifiably false". It was clear from the context that I was forwarding this message to ask people which lists it had gone to, not because I believed the content to be correct or even at all convincing or interesting. That message I sent, quoting Vulis's, immediately follows this message, after the line '========'. Then, tonight, I received a message from Sandy, which I include below a second '========' marker. In that letter, Sandy had explicitly aknowledged not only that he had sent Vulis's letter to neither mailing list, but that he wouldn't send my letter to either mailing list, either! He claimed that he couldn't forward Vulis's message because it was libel, and accused me of committing libel simply by quoting Vulis's message, even though I explicitly stated that Vulis's message was verifiably false. Well, this travesty must exposed, even if I can't make known all the details for fear of libel charges. I am therefore forwarding everything I can to the cypherpunks mailing list, for all to see. As you can see, Vulis made unfounded and incorrect charges that a particular system contained a security hole. Believe me, if I could get into the details of the case I could convince you easily that his claim is not true. However, since even quoting that claim apparently opens me up to charges of libel, I can't give you the details. Thus, I have censored (by overriting original text with the letters CENSORED) any portion of quoted messages that might give you an indication of what system Vulis actually claimed had a security hole. This censorship should not, however, affect my main point, and the lesson that I hope we can all take away from this. When it comes down to it, the details of this case do not matter. What does matter is that even when the "good guys" attempt benign censorship, it can have frighteningly far-reaching effects on people's ability to discuss otherwise reasonable topics such as the mechanics of the cypherpunks list. I generally dislike censorship and moderation, but the consequences of the cypherpunks experiment have gone far beyond anything I could have imagined. In closing, let me reiterate that I don't think most of this is Sandy's, John's, or anyone else's fault. Given the knowledge I have of this case, I believe Sandy has unwittingly found himself ensnarled in a nasty legal situation where, for fear of legal reprisal he must block articles that he has a moral obligation to send to cypherpunks-flames. I certainly don't envy his position. [To moderator Sandy: I believe we must get the content of this message to the main cypherpunks mailing list. I have done everything I can to ensure that the message contains no libel. If, for some reason, you still can't send it on to the main cypherpunks mailing list, can you please tell me specifically which parts cause problems. I will the CENSOR them out and try again. This message contains important, highly relevant information for the cypherpunks community. Please help me do what it takes to get it accepted by the moderation process. Thanks.] ======== To: tcmay(a)got.net CC: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Chain: nym=antimod In-reply-to: <v03007802af21505d61f5(a)[207.167.93.63]> (tcmay(a)got.net) Subject: Re: Is Sandy really censoring criticisms of CENSORCENSOREDCENSOREDC? Okay, I went through my old mail, and I'm fairly sure this is the message. I'm convinced it never went to the flames list, and now that I've found out I'm on the -unedited list after all, I think it probably didn't go to the regular cypherpunks list either. Can people on the various lists confirm this for me? Given the total lack of technical content, the flamey nature of the article, and the fact that it is verifiably false (CENSOREDCENSOREDC ENSOREDCENSOREDCE), I can see people arguing it should have gone to - -flames (though I would probably disagree). However, I don't want to debate that. What I object to more strongly and think is wrong is the fact that it went to *neither* list. A lot of people out there are subscribing to the cypherpunks-flames and cypherpunks lists thinking that they will see everything that gets rejected (albeit with a substantial delay). If this is not the case, it should be made clear. Otherwise, it's not moderation, but dishonesty. - -- >From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Thu Jan 30 17:26:50 1997 From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Subject: Security alert!!! To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 16:15:21 EST Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18833; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from uu.psi.com (uu.psi.com [38.9.86.2]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18824; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA02017 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 97 16:57:10 -0500 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Thu, 30 Jan 97 16:19:19 EST for cypherpunks(a)toad.com Comments: All power to the ZOG! Message-Id: <aw5c2D4w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Lines: 19 WARNING: There's a rogue trojan horse out there on the internet CENSOREDCENS OREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCEN. It's actually a hacked-up version of CENSOR with a backdoor, which allows hackers (or whoever knows the backdoor) to steal credit card numbers and other confidentil information on the Internet. Be careful! Always use encryption. Do not send confidential information 9such as passwords and credit card numbers) to any site running the trojan horse CENSOREDCENS. In general, beware of "snake oil" security products and hacked-up versions of free software. Please repost this warning to all relevant computer security forums. - --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps ======== X-From: sandfort(a)crl.com Sat Feb 08 00:56:23 1997 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:45:31 -0800 (PST) From: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort(a)crl.com> To: Against Moderation <antimod(a)nym.alias.net> Subject: Re: Is Sandy really censoring criticisms of CENSOREDCENSOREDCENSORE? In-Reply-To: <19970207220720.15530.qmail(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Hi, On 7 Feb 1997, Against Moderation wrote: > What I object to more strongly and think is wrong is the > fact that it went to *neither* list. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. As soon as I can arrange it with John, I am going to stop moderating the list. In the interim, I *will not* be sending your post onto either the Flames or the Moderated lists. This is done for legal reason. As it is, you have already published a libel on the unedited list by repeating Dimitri's libel. This exposes you to legal liability, but as an anonymous poster, you are somewhat insulated from the consequences of your act. If you would like to PRIVATELY discuss this matter with me, I would not mind going into more detail with you. Suffice it to say, I any re-publication by me of Dimitri's libel would expose John and myself to legal liability and could also act to insulate Dimitri from liability as a result of CENSOREDCENSOREDCE NSOREDCENDOREDCENDOREDC. Take care, S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ======== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMvwBkICHQnqYPZ9VAQGf+gP/cCw3gs23pL36RIi7OTRpZaM8E7D55hVE I7H8VX4u9TdWpPJPw0Q+ZqftRxn2Ancf/6RzqZA03jSnNCqUqkEhrPSTnq4qmZmx M+BGMI/3Y3Gl3Aj7YQhpcQLEaCLMMkQ4ddG5VVujeFwMs8gWt8Zi80aytD5dLenF ykV0cj2DsWs= =ezEz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: 40-bit RC5 crack meaningless??
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:37 AM 2/7/97 -0500, Vin McLellan wrote: > Now, an international institution which buys and bets the bank upon >US-exportable (40-bit) cryptography probably deserves what it has bought: > [...] even 56-bit keys -- whatever the algorithm! -- offer only "minimal" security. >(What Goldberg did in hours, many could do in a days or weeks with much >less equipment. You don't bet the bank on 40-bit crypto, unless you're, ummm, accepting credit cards over wimp-configured sessions of SSL. (You, as merchant, may not lose if there's a forgery, and your customer's loss may be limited to $50, but the bank's loss isn't limited except by how fast they can block thieves.) While banks get Extra Slack on crypto exports, and can use 56-bit DES, they've got more serious adversaries - building a $1M machine to win a $1000 contest is a bit expensive for the average grad student, but it's a perfectly reasonable investment if you're planning to rob banks of millions of dollars with it, especially if you think you can either siphon the money off slowly while hitting a lot of banks or else make a really big haul all at once. Banks aren't the only kind of company with big money floating around; stockbrokers, commodities traders, purchasing departments of big companies that might not notice that they're buying a few percent more parts, and all sorts of other large companies are targets for crypto-cracking thieves. Because well-funded thieves can do this kind of financial damage, we have a legitimate-sounding spin on "Federal law enforcement's job includes preventing large-scale theft, and they're letting their political agenda get in the way of doing their job. Sure, 56-bit keys are harder to crack than 40, but well-funded crackers could use the same techniques Ian did." Either method of theft requires being non-stupid enough not to get caught afterwards (like the $(24?)M computerized bank job last year), and having your "partners" not rip you off; a big heist also risks detection by tracking chip purchases, and provoking the Feds into banning "ASIC Laundering" and criminalizing illegal possesion of field-programmable gate arrays and such paranoid silliness. ..>> the same Strassmann Yeah, him :-) > (It was a usefully overheated hook for some article on compsec, but >I don't think I ever used it. Reminded me too much of warnings that >someone was bound to someday taint the city water reservoir with LSD;-) But we _were_ planning to enhance the water that way, back in the 60s! :-) # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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What else do I need for an Internet Server
by Otto Matic 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What else do I need for an internet server? HP Vectra Towers 2 each 486 cyrex chips 50 meg processor Need high speed hard drives. These are the Tall Towers that have multiple drives, these are server towers. I think I have a router Hub. And a couple LAN cards. That's all I have. But I just got them, and I want to use them. I assume I will be using some kind of UNIX software. Thanks: otto =-=-=-=-=- Otto Matic "Fuckin' A, Miller!" Bud, Repo Man --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Metzger, Denninger square off
by Roy M. Silvernail 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In list.cypherpunks, ericm(a)lne.com writes: > Damaged Justice writes: >> administration about this." Barring that, Denninger will lobby >> Internet service providers around the country, asking them not to >> recognize the new GTLDs. "There is no reason to support it. We will do >> everything in our power to convince ISPs not to go along," he says. > If I didn't already think that Karl was an idiot, I'd sure think so after > reading this. Concur. When I went after my domain name last year, I was effectively forced into taking a .com, which was the _last_ TLD I wanted. (first choice was .net, but that's supposedly now only given to ISPs) I'd happily accept scytale.nom, especially since it's doubly cryptic. - -- Roy M. Silvernail [ ] roy(a)scytale.com DNRC Minister Plenipotentiary of All Things Confusing, Software Division PGP Public Key fingerprint = 31 86 EC B9 DB 76 A7 54 13 0B 6A 6B CC 09 18 B6 Key available from pubkey(a)scytale.com, which works now -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMvvDqBvikii9febJAQE23AQAle+xfNgFCof8CjIDD1VxKv62TbHz5itj 7z2aAPaOD9IT812heFSKn+wYteETpWKWy6iGI/cKyR4siEtqJq2IiqaEs6bjSkIL 2C2ErK0FaKmnW14rUNX2XdSGHlqBGfh3rkjKM5UrHd+PBakNQKIIByPvTxn/Stsl /XzWZBZyAG0= =qAs2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Congressional cell phone security hearing
by Dan Veeneman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hyperbole flew hot and heavy during a February 5 hearing on cellular telephone privacy chaired by Louisiana Republican Billy Tauzin. The House Commerce Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade, and Consumer Protection held a hearing titled "Is anybody listening? You betcha." Subcommittee members were shocked, just shocked to learn that, according to a hyper-animated Thomas Wheeler (president of the Cellular Telephone Industry Association), Americans are engaged in "electronic stalking" of cellular telephone users. Further details of CSPAN pandering and Ed Markey's (D-MA) Humpty Dumpty imitation ("words mean whatever I want them to mean") elided. Some notable moments: Representative Cliff Stearns (R-FL), during a discussion about encryption, called PGP "a darn good program." Jay Kitchen, head of the Personal Communications Industry Association, related an (apocryphal?) story about MI5 requiring 2 Crays to run for 3 days to break a single GSM. Jim Kallstrom, Assistant Director FBI and head of the New York field office, woodenly delivered his (IMHO unfocused) testimony and reported that on the first day of the TWA Flight 800 crash investigation he determined that the news media knew more than they should, so he confiscated the cell phones of the FBI agents and locked them away, under the (reasonable) presumption that reporters were listening to FBI cell phone calls. Jimmy also reiterated the FBI line that their new wiretap requirements were reasonable and necessary to protect American citizens from terrorists. Dan dan(a)decode.com -- cypherp(a)decode.com (Dan Veeneman) Cryptography, Security, Privacy BBS +1 410 730 6734 Data/FAX

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Re: Sandy suppresses truth about his moderation policy
by Mark M. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Below are some interesting facts implying that: > > 1) Sandy uses a bot to reject articles of people he does not like I see no evidence to substantiate this claim. People who would be most likely to get auto-blocked have managed to get at least one post sent to the moderated list. > 2) When I exposed him with an article showing all Received: dates, > he > a) rejected the article exposing him The only thing your previous post proved is that toad.com has a very little delay between receiving and sending mail to cypherpunks-unedited. Notice that the post in question does not have an altered Message-Id and the sender is set to owner-cypherpunks, not owner-cypherpunks-unedited which appears in all messages sent to the flames list. > and > b) changed his moderation software so that Received: headers > for the cypherpunks-flames do not show the times when > messages came in The modification was made after there was the problem of the received headers exposing the supposedly secret outgoing destination address of the moderated list. This change was certainly made before February 6, the date the post in question was posted. Also, John would have made this modification; not Sandy. Mark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMvwF/CzIPc7jvyFpAQE0lwf8Dx8bY2WUKDZQ4piOc0XRgY0LpbCOcbXZ FGMOlR9o1Hk9Z3DlCtNReM1YF9WoeHkc4Z6wDtDu0XJunB5Rj4Hwa1qZmvY2a2S/ IkkBDp+RyA1QpTsEU1fQjNJR0LQBoIa/fVKyAzKJSD66tCHHneIvc4IrXAciobE1 9WX+h6r5wBjXkVEI9mgehrprqBRIRaNgURunyCavbXPbiEoS7bflBfKBLurj7OQf uAERvyX6YYv7ZaycV9Qjx33ozrSrMzARbahx+ryWrO5MUuoZ9fabyeS61xr141Cv QCPRyxq1Pl2TcJF2otpxpCuzoty4VzEONDib+O+BkNDPo9sGx8a/8w== =J1Sw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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** THE 30 SECOND COMMUTE **
by action＠answerme.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello,^Morons, Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:15:29 -0600 Message-Id: <05152934600809(a)sitegen.net> WELCOME TO THE 30 SECOND COMMUTE...45, IF YOU GRAB SOME COFFEE! Let's take a trip back to 1950 and imagine that my name is Ray Crock and I want to tell you about a little restaurant named McDonald's. If you had bought the stock that I was selling then, you'd certainly be doing the 30 second commute now!! Seriously, had you bought that stock then, it would've been the right decision. Fact is, it's 1997, I don't own McDonald's corporation and I'm not selling anything. What I want to know is: 1. Would you spend 3 or 4 minutes a day to make $300 or $400 a week to spend on yourself and family? 2. Would you trade $100 for $600 ? 3. If you got promoted to president of the company, would you accept? 4. Would you make the right decision now, if you had to? 5. Would you e-mail me to see how you can do the 30 second commute? mailto: action(a)answerme.com Matt Emerson Toll Free: 1 800-976-8608 Fax: 602 641-3514 InterNet Address: http://www.rb-dist.com

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Re: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation
by Against Moderation 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:54:05 -0800 (PST) > From: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort(a)crl.com> > > Sir, Please don't assume anything about my sex. Do you think only men know how to use nym servers? > I asked you to keep our communications private. You did not do > so. I have nothing further to say to you. I understand your desire to keep this secret. Believe me, I know this must be an unpleasant situation for you. Nonetheless, I believe this issue is so important and relevant to the cypherpunks community that it outweighs your wish to keep it a secret. I respect the difficulty of your situation, and would not try to air this issue if I did not think exposing it immediately was of the utmost importance. Please, try to see this from as disinterested a point of view as possible. I know it's difficult being both the moderator and one of the parties involved in the dispute. However, we have a situation here where threats of libel have suppressed not only technical discussion of the actual software in question (which actually wouldn't be much of a discussion), but even discussion on the mechanics of moderation, something highly relevant to the list. Worse yet, people subscribed to the list DON'T EVEN KNOW that this discussion is being suppressed. We need to get this issue out, even if only in part. If my article was unacceptable, can you at least tell me which parts I should eliminate. I am willing to censor as much of it as I need to to get it published, as long as my main point gets accross. Surely you must agree that my main point doesn't have anything to do with the piece of software involved, right? Has it really come down to a situation where even the *fact* that some articles are being suppressed must be suppressed? Please. Think of the purpose of cypherpunks. Do the right thing. I am flexible. I will edit my article even more. But please, tell me what I can do to get it onto the main list. People need to know what is happening. I append my article here once again. If you really cannot accept it, at least tell me what I can change to get it accepted. Thank you. - -- To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com CC: tcmay(a)got.net Subject: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation Well, folks, tonight I have witnessed the frightening dangers of moderation and censorship first-hand, and would like to tell you what has happened. I think there is an important lesson to be learned from these incidents. Before I explain what has happened, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Though I've thought the moderation of cypherpunks was a terrible idea from the start and am even more convinced of it now, I don't assign any blame to Sandy. I believe he offered to moderate the list with the best of intentions, and I sincerely appreciate his efforts to try to revive what was once a fantastic mailing list, even if in my opinion those efforts have backfired. Sandy has been a valuable advocate of cypherpunk beliefs and a lively contributor to cypherpunks list for a long time. Though the moderation experiment has resulted in some terrible consequences, we can't blame him for what has happened. If the events I have witnessed tonight occured with such a high-standing member of the cypherpunks community in charge, the cause of them can only be the very nature of moderation and censorship. I don't think any of us could have done much better in Sandy's shoes. Now, what happened tonight? As some of you may recall, a month or so ago I vehemently argued against the elimination of the cypherpunks-unedited mailingt list. Some people (though no one associated with toad.com) were claiming that 3 mailing lists might be too much load, and that having cypherpunks and cypherpunks-flames would be enough. I argued that not only would the delay of waiting for a decision put alternate cypherpunks moderators at a disadvantage, it would make it farm more difficult to convince people of the moderator's honesty as there would be no guarantee that messages made it to either list. Fortunately, cypherpunks-unedited did get created (it seems no one "in charge" ever intended not to create it). Well, as it turns out, a number of messages have made it neither to cypherpunks nor to cypherpunks-flames. Making matters worse, however, not only are certain messages being suppressed from both lists, but even messages mentioning that fact get suppressed from both the cypherpunks and the cypherpunks-flames lists! Here's exactly what happened. I was beginning to believe that Dmitri Vulis had sent an (admitedly objectionable) message to the cypherpunks mailing list, but that the message had gone to neither the cypherpunks nor the cypherpunks-flames lists. Since I was under the impression that every article was supposed to go to one list or the other, and many people probably still believe that, I mentioned this somewhat startling fact on the cypherpunks mailing list, I believe in response to a post by Tim May on the same subject. Tim replied (in a message Cc'ed to cypherpunks--though I don't think it went anywhere but to -unedited), asking me in the message, "Can you send to the list, with a copy to me, the articles CENSOREDCENSOREDCENS OREDCENSOREDCENSORE?" I therefore went back through my mail archives and found a copy of the message that I believed had gone to neither mailing list. I sent it to Tim and to cypherpunks. I prepended a few paragraphs in which I asked people to confirm that the message had gone to neither mailing list. Among other things in those paragraphs, I stated that Vulis's message was "verifiably false". It was clear from the context that I was forwarding this message to ask people which lists it had gone to, not because I believed the content to be correct or even at all convincing or interesting. That message I sent, quoting Vulis's, immediately follows this message, after the line '========'. Then, tonight, I received a message from Sandy, which I include below a second '========' marker. In that letter, Sandy had explicitly aknowledged not only that he had sent Vulis's letter to neither mailing list, but that he wouldn't send my letter to either mailing list, either! He claimed that he couldn't forward Vulis's message because it was libel, and accused me of committing libel simply by quoting Vulis's message, even though I explicitly stated that Vulis's message was verifiably false. Well, this travesty must exposed, even if I can't make known all the details for fear of libel charges. I am therefore forwarding everything I can to the cypherpunks mailing list, for all to see. As you can see, Vulis made unfounded and incorrect charges that a particular system contained a security hole. Believe me, if I could get into the details of the case I could convince you easily that his claim is not true. However, since even quoting that claim apparently opens me up to charges of libel, I can't give you the details. Thus, I have censored (by overriting original text with the letters CENSORED) any portion of quoted messages that might give you an indication of what system Vulis actually claimed had a security hole. This censorship should not, however, affect my main point, and the lesson that I hope we can all take away from this. When it comes down to it, the details of this case do not matter. What does matter is that even when the "good guys" attempt benign censorship, it can have frighteningly far-reaching effects on people's ability to discuss otherwise reasonable topics such as the mechanics of the cypherpunks list. I generally dislike censorship and moderation, but the consequences of the cypherpunks experiment have gone far beyond anything I could have imagined. In closing, let me reiterate that I don't think most of this is Sandy's, John's, or anyone else's fault. Given the knowledge I have of this case, I believe Sandy has unwittingly found himself ensnarled in a nasty legal situation where, for fear of legal reprisal he must block articles that he has a moral obligation to send to cypherpunks-flames. I certainly don't envy his position. [To moderator Sandy: I believe we must get the content of this message to the main cypherpunks mailing list. I have done everything I can to ensure that the message contains no libel. If, for some reason, you still can't send it on to the main cypherpunks mailing list, can you please tell me specifically which parts cause problems. I will the CENSOR them out and try again. This message contains important, highly relevant information for the cypherpunks community. Please help me do what it takes to get it accepted by the moderation process. Thanks.] ======== To: tcmay(a)got.net CC: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Chain: nym=antimod In-reply-to: <v03007802af21505d61f5(a)[207.167.93.63]> (tcmay(a)got.net) Subject: Re: Is Sandy really censoring criticisms of CENSORCENSOREDCENSOREDC? Okay, I went through my old mail, and I'm fairly sure this is the message. I'm convinced it never went to the flames list, and now that I've found out I'm on the -unedited list after all, I think it probably didn't go to the regular cypherpunks list either. Can people on the various lists confirm this for me? Given the total lack of technical content, the flamey nature of the article, and the fact that it is verifiably false (CENSOREDCENSOREDC ENSOREDCENSOREDCE), I can see people arguing it should have gone to - -flames (though I would probably disagree). However, I don't want to debate that. What I object to more strongly and think is wrong is the fact that it went to *neither* list. A lot of people out there are subscribing to the cypherpunks-flames and cypherpunks lists thinking that they will see everything that gets rejected (albeit with a substantial delay). If this is not the case, it should be made clear. Otherwise, it's not moderation, but dishonesty. - -- >From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Thu Jan 30 17:26:50 1997 From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Subject: Security alert!!! To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 16:15:21 EST Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18833; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from uu.psi.com (uu.psi.com [38.9.86.2]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18824; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA02017 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 97 16:57:10 -0500 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Thu, 30 Jan 97 16:19:19 EST for cypherpunks(a)toad.com Comments: All power to the ZOG! Message-Id: <aw5c2D4w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Lines: 19 WARNING: There's a rogue trojan horse out there on the internet CENSOREDCENS OREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCEN. It's actually a hacked-up version of CENSOR with a backdoor, which allows hackers (or whoever knows the backdoor) to steal credit card numbers and other confidentil information on the Internet. Be careful! Always use encryption. Do not send confidential information 9such as passwords and credit card numbers) to any site running the trojan horse CENSOREDCENS. In general, beware of "snake oil" security products and hacked-up versions of free software. Please repost this warning to all relevant computer security forums. - --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps ======== X-From: sandfort(a)crl.com Sat Feb 08 00:56:23 1997 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:45:31 -0800 (PST) From: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort(a)crl.com> To: Against Moderation <antimod(a)nym.alias.net> Subject: Re: Is Sandy really censoring criticisms of CENSOREDCENSOREDCENSORE? In-Reply-To: <19970207220720.15530.qmail(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Hi, On 7 Feb 1997, Against Moderation wrote: > What I object to more strongly and think is wrong is the > fact that it went to *neither* list. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. As soon as I can arrange it with John, I am going to stop moderating the list. In the interim, I *will not* be sending your post onto either the Flames or the Moderated lists. This is done for legal reason. As it is, you have already published a libel on the unedited list by repeating Dimitri's libel. This exposes you to legal liability, but as an anonymous poster, you are somewhat insulated from the consequences of your act. If you would like to PRIVATELY discuss this matter with me, I would not mind going into more detail with you. Suffice it to say, I any re-publication by me of Dimitri's libel would expose John and myself to legal liability and could also act to insulate Dimitri from liability as a result of CENSOREDCENSOREDCE NSOREDCENDOREDCENDOREDC. Take care, S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ======== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMvwRPoCHQnqYPZ9VAQF60gQAizQlcgLKHMviZclZZtGEHm0AcWjjhijr bj809X1/70+KUzfHXJ9vVt4Jc5nqJblKlWiuux/KnSsnAXT8C0pyaUpp1vARYE2C w78pMfZxNQRuo/0IYuHfEb/rhdGieLQbqFGkpN3gj9iRzU4jOE7/PFejJKLYckDT 7aP0LdeRS/8= =wCgj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Congressional cell phone security hearing
by Dan Veeneman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hyperbole flew hot and heavy during a February 5 hearing on cellular telephone privacy chaired by Louisiana Republican Billy Tauzin. The House Commerce Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade, and Consumer Protection held a hearing titled "Is anybody listening? You betcha." Subcommittee members were shocked, just shocked to learn that, according to a hyper-animated Thomas Wheeler (president of the Cellular Telephone Industry Association), Americans are engaged in "electronic stalking" of cellular telephone users. Further details of CSPAN pandering and Ed Markey's (D-MA) Humpty Dumpty imitation ("words mean whatever I want them to mean") elided. Some notable moments: Representative Cliff Stearns (R-FL), during a discussion about encryption, called PGP "a darn good program." Jay Kitchen, head of the Personal Communications Industry Association, related an (apocryphal?) story about MI5 requiring 2 Crays to run for 3 days to break a single GSM. Jim Kallstrom, Assistant Director FBI and head of the New York field office, woodenly delivered his (IMHO unfocused) testimony and reported that on the first day of the TWA Flight 800 crash investigation he determined that the news media knew more than they should, so he confiscated the cell phones of the FBI agents and locked them away, under the (reasonable) presumption that reporters were listening to FBI cell phone calls. Jimmy also reiterated the FBI line that their new wiretap requirements were reasonable and necessary to protect American citizens from terrorists. Dan dan(a)decode.com -- cypherp(a)decode.com (Dan Veeneman) Cryptography, Security, Privacy BBS +1 410 730 6734 Data/FAX

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** THE 30 SECOND COMMUTE **
by action＠answerme.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello,^Morons, Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:15:29 -0600 Message-Id: <05152934600809(a)sitegen.net> WELCOME TO THE 30 SECOND COMMUTE...45, IF YOU GRAB SOME COFFEE! Let's take a trip back to 1950 and imagine that my name is Ray Crock and I want to tell you about a little restaurant named McDonald's. If you had bought the stock that I was selling then, you'd certainly be doing the 30 second commute now!! Seriously, had you bought that stock then, it would've been the right decision. Fact is, it's 1997, I don't own McDonald's corporation and I'm not selling anything. What I want to know is: 1. Would you spend 3 or 4 minutes a day to make $300 or $400 a week to spend on yourself and family? 2. Would you trade $100 for $600 ? 3. If you got promoted to president of the company, would you accept? 4. Would you make the right decision now, if you had to? 5. Would you e-mail me to see how you can do the 30 second commute? mailto: action(a)answerme.com Matt Emerson Toll Free: 1 800-976-8608 Fax: 602 641-3514 InterNet Address: http://www.rb-dist.com

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Internet Alert! Pay for local dial-up??
by E-Mail Communications 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

***************************************** INTERNET USERS ALERT!!! It has come to our attention that several local telephone companies have petitioned the FCC for permission to charge Internet Users by the minute for LOCAL dial-up telephone service. This would affect every Internet User, including those using AOL dial-up. For more information, see the FCC site: http://www.fcc.gov/isp.htm. Please send an E-Mail to isp(a)fcc.gov to express your outrage at the idea of allowing telephone companies to charge by the minute for LOCAL dial-up service. E-Mail comments must be sent by Feb. 13th, 1997. This affects every Internet user!! ******************************************* - FREEDOM NEWSLETTER - Feb. 7th, 1997 ******************************************* We realize that some people prefer not to receive commercial E-Mail. We only want to keep INTERESTED recipients on our list. So... If YOU would rather not receive our mail - HIT REPLY - and type REMOVE in the message and subject area. This is an automated system. You will be removed from all future mail from us. Since this is an automated system, there is no need to say anything else, as nobody but the computer will see it anyway! You will be removed within 24. (You must spell REMOVE correctly!!!) ********************************* <for best viewing max your screen to largest size> ********************************* Standing for FREEDOM, LIBERTY, and AMERICA! We believe in Freedom of the Press and Speech. (These freedoms are essential for the development and growth of the Internet.) See our "Patriotic Quotes That Make Sense" at the end of this publication. Interesting Web Sites of The Week: Citizens Against Government Waste: http://www.Govt-Waste.org/ Lots of FREE Software at: http://tucows.com PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS. They are the Entrepreneurs that make the Free Enterprise System of America work. We make it EASY to receive FREE INFORMATION from our sponsors. ************************************ "HIT REPLY" INFORMATION SECTION: ***Send a -seperate- request for each information offer*** For each FREE information document desired, HIT REPLY - and then type the indicated Key Word (s) in the subject -and- message area, and send. That's all you need to do. This automatic system will forward your request to the vendor. The vendor will send you the FREE INFORMATION that you desire. Remember, type the Key Word (s) or it won't work. Nothing else is necessary. (If you misspell the Key Word (s), it won't work!) Please don't "quote back" the ad - - just type the Key Word (s). ************************************* ATTENTION CRUISE LOVERS! If you love Cruise Vacations, you need to subscribe to Cruise News. It's FREE. This E-Mail newsletter will come to your mailbox twice monthly. You will read the latest news from the Cruise Industry, special insider deals, reader contests (win a prize!), funny stories, and more. To subscribe HIT REPLY and type: SUBSCRIBE CRUISE NEWS _______________________________ ATTENTION GOLF LOVERS: Subscribe to Golfers Express! It will come to your E-Mail mailbox twice a month, with exciting new products and services & unusual offers for Golfers Only! Sometimes we feature great golf / vacation offers! It's FREE!! To subscribe - HIT REPLY and type: SUBSCRIBE GOLF _______________________________ ATTENTION BUSINESS OWNERS - RETAIL SALES MANAGERS, PROMOTERS, ETC. Reward your best customers with a deluxe, luxury vacation to Orlando, Florida! With our new Orlando Voucher your customer will receive four days and three nights at the Orlando / Westgate Ramada Inn Resort, (located right at the main gate of Disney World). Included with this voucher are TWO FREE ROUNDS OF GOLF, a $500 Fun Book, and more! Your cost for these exciting vouchers can be as low as $20 each. For complete details, HIT REPLY and type: VOUCHER (Vouchers are for incentive purposes only) _______________________________ Tax Trouble? Have not filed for a while? We will do older returns, federal, any state. Ask us how many years you need to file. Missing Information?? We will get it, talk to collections, do payment plan or offer. http://www.filetax.com . We will help, no guilt, no attitude. Interline Employee?? Check: http:www.filetax.com/flight.html For free Info by E-Mail - HIT REPLY and type: TAX ________________________________ Wouldn't you rather be on a Sea Cruise? Deep Discounted Cruise Vacations to the Caribbean, Alaska, Europe, the Far East and other Exotic Ports of Call. For Free Info, HIT REPLY and type: VACATION ________________________________ "FREE" $400 Bulk E-Mail Software "Explodes Your Business" For FREE Information, HIT REPLY and type: EXPLODE ________________________________ OPPORTUNITY! The Complete Internet Business Starter Kit! FREE Web Page! Information Technology System! FREE DETAILS: HIT REPLY and type: SYSTEM ______________________________ Reach 50,000,000 on the Internet with iMall Classifieds, or Full Color Display Ads. Advertise your product, service, or information on the iMall. Free Bonus with every Homepage. Send for FREE details. AccessMillennium, Inc. (tm) Internet Advertising Consultants For FREE Information - HIT REPLY and type: MALL ________________________________ TRAVEL in style and EARN $$$ as an independent Travel Agent. For FREE Information - HIT REPLY and type: TRAVEL ________________________________ 10 yrs in Europe. NOW in US! Unique weightloss program - Distributors needed. For FREE info - HIT REPLY and type: WEIGHTLOSS ________________________________ EAT CHOCOLATE - LOSE WEIGHT!! Amazing discovery has crowds lining up to enroll - it's a SPONSORING FRENZY! Exclusive patented ingredient in chocolate STOPS food and sweet cravings. Debt free MLM about to EXPLODE!!! For FREE info - HIT REPLY and type: CANDY ________________________________ Did you know that the internet is full of sites that offer FREE stuff? Reply now and get a FREE SAMPLE of one of these sites. For FREE SAMPLE - HIT REPLY and type: STUFF ________________________________ ====KM users, WE GOT IT!!! === World's Best Herbal Tonic got better! ORIGINAL KM chemist makes 20 herb 'BOTANOL" European Potency Standards. Improved flavor! Front Line /w Boreyko ties will help build your $5-20K/mo. income in 3-6 months. Call 602-503-0266 or HIT REPLY and type: KM _________________________________ Fast Cash * Experienced Networkers Only !! Successful business group uses pooled resources to Jump - Start successful networkers in #1 growth MLM. Don't need your $; just your experience & energy. Opportunity of a Lifetime. FAX resume to 602-503-0744 or - HIT REPLY and type: JUMP - Include w/ E-Mail a brief experience biography in message. _________________________________ **Obscene $$ on the INTERNET!! ** $19K per month in 5 months!! Lightning Speed Sales Growth. Really CRANKS!! Success magazine featured, Nov. 96. We train & coach qualified people. No capital investment. Leading products with dynamite marketing system. FREE info pack - HIT REPLY & type: BUNDLES _________________________________ +++ FREE Tape Offer +++ Exposes FDA & Drug Industry control of modern day medicine & gives LIFE SAVING health information. Better than Dead Doctor tape!! For FREE Tape HIT REPLY & type: SECRETS. (be sure to include postal address in message.) __________________________________ ** Could ENNIS COSBY'S DEATH have been PREVENTED? ** Shocking!! Is YOUR FAMILY Safe? Avoid life-threatening situations with these revolutionary auto products. HIT REPLY & type: SAFE __________________________________ >>CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR TICKER? << FREE Audio Tape - Dr. Ruhe tells how the Nation's #1 Killer, heart disease, can be stopped! Your life may depend on this information. To get Tape - HIT REPLY & type: TICKER. (be sure to include postal address) ___________________________________ GET IN TOUCH WITH YOUR LONG LOST FRIEND! MG Services will help you find and reunite with your long lost friend. For a FREE complete list of our services - HIT REPLY & type: UNITE ___________________________________ Make $$$ With Your Home PC. For FREE information - HIT REPLY & type: CASH ___________________________________ Real Home Publishing Business For FREE Information - HIT REPLY & type: PUBLISH ___________________________________ ****FREE Gossip about Movie Stars!! HIT REPLY & type: GOSSIP ___________________________________ *************************************** *************************************** *************************************** REGULAR RESPONSE SECTION: To respond to any of the following announcements, DO NOT HIT REPLY! Rather, follow the instructions in each ad. If sending an email for FREE information, you must create a NEW email and send it to the address in the ad. This is very important! If you hit "reply" for these ads, nothing will happen! You must send a separate request for each information offer. *************************************** *************************************** *************************************** (This is a Fund Raiser, and merits your support) ***SPORTS *** SCORES *** SPREADS *** NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB Sports & Entertainment Information For You!! Stay informed and up to date. Sports Results * Movie Reviews * Financial Updates * Updated Hourly!! 1-900-484-5800 ext. 8109 $2.99 per min. Must be 18 years. (Touch Tone Phone required) The proceeds from your call will be donated to Make - A - Wish Foundation ! (They Grant Wishes to Terminally Ill Children) ______________________________ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16 _____________________________ ***************INSTANT * AIDS * TEST ********************** ** HETERO-SEXUAL * HOMO-SEXUAL * BI-SEXUAL * HYPER-SEXUAL ** ****WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW * WHEN YOU NEED TO KNOW IT **** HERMETICALLY SEALED PACK OF 5 CREDIT CARD SIZE TESTS $10 TO DR. GREY PALADIN, 637 S. BROADWAY, B-105, BOULDER, CO 80303 ______________________________ Everyone has one! Earn your $$ off them! http://www.drbd.com ______________________________ Go with a proven system! We have 16 yrs experience helping people lose weight & keep it off with all natural, herbal - based products. E-Mail: herbalpc(a)answerme.com for details ______________________________ ******** TERM LIFE QUOTES ON-LINE ******* Our database shops over 180 insurance companies ... no sales pressure For quotes, visit our web site at ... http://www.hoot.com/insure ______________________________ Ultra tour BALATAS @ 60% off !!! $13.50 per w/3 doz min order. NEW logo'd Balatas 90 & 100 comp. For FREE Info - E-Mail me at JRGOLF(a)concentric.net ________________________________ MAKE MONEY IN GOLF - Need distributors to handle wholesale clubs, equipment, closeouts, etc., part / full time M/F. E-Mail for information at JRGOLF(a)concentric.net ________________________________ Own the NEW CAR of your choice for $695 out of pocket cost. For FREE DETAILS, send an E-Mail to our Auto - Responder: newcar(a)answerme.com ________________________________ Look Great, Feel Great, Lose Weight Go with a proven system! We have 16 yrs experience helping people lose weight & keep it off with all natural, herbal -based products. E-Mail: herbalpc(a)answerme.com for FREE details. _________________________________ ENCYCLOPEDIA INTERNET! "Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask, or don't know who to ask" For FREE Info - E-Mail autoresponder: request12(a)answerme.com put "BIZ12" in E-mail body. _________________________________ Don't Delete until you see the INTERNET'S FIRST SUPER SAVER STORE. FIRE sale pricing. Tons of products. FREE LIFETIME SHOPPING membership for the first few browsers - so surf NOW: http://www.isivn.com use member ID #02172. No Obligation! _________________________________ Great Business Opportunity, Complete Ligitimacy, $65,000 a year. Help others achieve Dreams, Go to: http://www.out.infront.com/Home.Business _________________________________ Lose Weight Yesterday, 100% Guaranteed, Different Plans for your budget. First enter $20,000 contest at: http://out.infront.com/contest *********************************************** ATTENTION ON-LINE ADVERTISERS! BE A SPONSOR AND GET YOUR MESSAGE OUT TO MILLIONS! If you would like to place your message before 1/2 million on-line readers a week, we can do it for you for as little as $10 per line! We mail to different people each week! We will get your message out to millions! We have a very economical plan to give you a real presence on the net. Find out how you can get a FREE week of E-Mail advertising!!! New Feature: " FLAME PROOF ADVERTISING." Get your message out without being bothered by Flames. No more TOS problems, no more warnings from your ISP. We filter out the problems! Call for details. We can also do an "Exclusive" mailing of your letter alone. For the "do-it-your-self" marketer, we can also provide you with your own mailing lists for your own direct E-Mail marketing. For full details, call our office @ 919-772-8855 9-5 Eastern Time - OR - HIT REPLY and type - ADINFO - in the message area. Our Auto-Responder will send you rates and ordering details. FREEDOM NEWSLETTER E-Mail Communications / Econo Promotions *********************************************** Quotes that make sense: "We tried to provide more for the poor and produced more poor instead. We tried to remove the barriers to escape poverty, and inadvertently built a trap" --Charles Murray "Character is doing what's right when nobody's watching" --Congressman J.C. Watts "The point to remember is that what the government gives, it must first take away." -- John S. Coleman "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." -- President Ronald W. Reagan June 6, 1984 - Normandy, France "Blessed is the Nation whose God is the Lord" -- Psalms 33:12 *****************************

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Re: lead remailer is shut down
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Raph's remailer list is at http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html and indicates lots of different remailer features, including whether they accept or require PGP, and what reliability they've been getting recently. The remailer that was shut down was the remailer named "lead"; you may have noticed that your reply went to a machine named "zinc"..... At 11:56 PM 2/7/97 +0100, you wrote: >Can anybody give me the address of reliable remailer which accepts >pgp messages. > >BTW which remailer was shut down and why? > > > > > > > # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Re: 40-bit RC5 crack meaningless?
by Ian Goldberg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article <199702071941.LAA29283(a)toad.com>, Peter Trei <trei(a)ziplink.net> wrote: >The purpose of an IV is to make dictionary and replay attacks more >difficult. It is not intended to prevent brute force attacks, and so >is _normally_ included in the clear in communications protocols (for >example, see RFC 1827 for it's clear transmission in IPSEC). If it >is not included, it is effectively part of the keying material, and >thus adds it's bits to the strength of the key. As such, its value >would have to be transmitted and protected as carefully as the rest of >the key. This is a common mistake. Just use the first block of ciphertext as the IV, and start decrypting from the second block. Let's say you discover that key K causes C2,C3,... to decrypt to something intelligible (P2,P3,...), using C1 as the IV. What could P1 have been? Well, we know that (if IV is the _actual_ IV, which you don't know) E_K[IV^P1] = C1, so IV^P1 = D_K[C1]. But we now have what is effectively a one-time pad situation, where P1 is the plaintext, IV is the pad, and D_K[C1] is the ciphertext. Thus, if you don't know the IV in a CBC situation, you can still recover all of the plaintext starting at the second block with the same amount of work it would have taken to have recovered the whole plaintext, given the IV (the IV does not in fact add its bits to the strength of the key), but you learn nothing about the first block (unless something about the protocol gives you a clue based on your knowledge of subsequent blocks). Disclaimer: I've been having a rough week... - Ian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMvwT8kZRiTErSPb1AQEqMgQAoM3TW9xyN47aLt5p8BsYMEvWFa+e7sgt TGZa8DtuPPosciR8J7O2aMbKSvRHoLFFF0bBccC6NSsoVTlBUB2C+gGeMJ4ufk+A PbPMW1z4JvGyeVYtrEKPweetTl5ZprbbLoS778Pwm+9/RpwZte372B7BkgTvQR+H QjXuSmuua9c= =pqWE -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Internet Alert! Pay for local dial-up??
by E-Mail Communications 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

***************************************** INTERNET USERS ALERT!!! It has come to our attention that several local telephone companies have petitioned the FCC for permission to charge Internet Users by the minute for LOCAL dial-up telephone service. This would affect every Internet User, including those using AOL dial-up. For more information, see the FCC site: http://www.fcc.gov/isp.htm. Please send an E-Mail to isp(a)fcc.gov to express your outrage at the idea of allowing telephone companies to charge by the minute for LOCAL dial-up service. E-Mail comments must be sent by Feb. 13th, 1997. This affects every Internet user!! ******************************************* - FREEDOM NEWSLETTER - Feb. 7th, 1997 ******************************************* We realize that some people prefer not to receive commercial E-Mail. We only want to keep INTERESTED recipients on our list. So... If YOU would rather not receive our mail - HIT REPLY - and type REMOVE in the message and subject area. This is an automated system. You will be removed from all future mail from us. Since this is an automated system, there is no need to say anything else, as nobody but the computer will see it anyway! You will be removed within 24. (You must spell REMOVE correctly!!!) ********************************* <for best viewing max your screen to largest size> ********************************* Standing for FREEDOM, LIBERTY, and AMERICA! We believe in Freedom of the Press and Speech. (These freedoms are essential for the development and growth of the Internet.) See our "Patriotic Quotes That Make Sense" at the end of this publication. Interesting Web Sites of The Week: Citizens Against Government Waste: http://www.Govt-Waste.org/ Lots of FREE Software at: http://tucows.com PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS. They are the Entrepreneurs that make the Free Enterprise System of America work. We make it EASY to receive FREE INFORMATION from our sponsors. ************************************ "HIT REPLY" INFORMATION SECTION: ***Send a -seperate- request for each information offer*** For each FREE information document desired, HIT REPLY - and then type the indicated Key Word (s) in the subject -and- message area, and send. That's all you need to do. This automatic system will forward your request to the vendor. The vendor will send you the FREE INFORMATION that you desire. Remember, type the Key Word (s) or it won't work. Nothing else is necessary. (If you misspell the Key Word (s), it won't work!) Please don't "quote back" the ad - - just type the Key Word (s). ************************************* ATTENTION CRUISE LOVERS! If you love Cruise Vacations, you need to subscribe to Cruise News. It's FREE. This E-Mail newsletter will come to your mailbox twice monthly. You will read the latest news from the Cruise Industry, special insider deals, reader contests (win a prize!), funny stories, and more. To subscribe HIT REPLY and type: SUBSCRIBE CRUISE NEWS _______________________________ ATTENTION GOLF LOVERS: Subscribe to Golfers Express! It will come to your E-Mail mailbox twice a month, with exciting new products and services & unusual offers for Golfers Only! Sometimes we feature great golf / vacation offers! It's FREE!! To subscribe - HIT REPLY and type: SUBSCRIBE GOLF _______________________________ ATTENTION BUSINESS OWNERS - RETAIL SALES MANAGERS, PROMOTERS, ETC. Reward your best customers with a deluxe, luxury vacation to Orlando, Florida! With our new Orlando Voucher your customer will receive four days and three nights at the Orlando / Westgate Ramada Inn Resort, (located right at the main gate of Disney World). Included with this voucher are TWO FREE ROUNDS OF GOLF, a $500 Fun Book, and more! Your cost for these exciting vouchers can be as low as $20 each. For complete details, HIT REPLY and type: VOUCHER (Vouchers are for incentive purposes only) _______________________________ Tax Trouble? Have not filed for a while? We will do older returns, federal, any state. Ask us how many years you need to file. Missing Information?? We will get it, talk to collections, do payment plan or offer. http://www.filetax.com . We will help, no guilt, no attitude. Interline Employee?? Check: http:www.filetax.com/flight.html For free Info by E-Mail - HIT REPLY and type: TAX ________________________________ Wouldn't you rather be on a Sea Cruise? Deep Discounted Cruise Vacations to the Caribbean, Alaska, Europe, the Far East and other Exotic Ports of Call. For Free Info, HIT REPLY and type: VACATION ________________________________ "FREE" $400 Bulk E-Mail Software "Explodes Your Business" For FREE Information, HIT REPLY and type: EXPLODE ________________________________ OPPORTUNITY! The Complete Internet Business Starter Kit! FREE Web Page! Information Technology System! FREE DETAILS: HIT REPLY and type: SYSTEM ______________________________ Reach 50,000,000 on the Internet with iMall Classifieds, or Full Color Display Ads. Advertise your product, service, or information on the iMall. Free Bonus with every Homepage. Send for FREE details. AccessMillennium, Inc. (tm) Internet Advertising Consultants For FREE Information - HIT REPLY and type: MALL ________________________________ TRAVEL in style and EARN $$$ as an independent Travel Agent. For FREE Information - HIT REPLY and type: TRAVEL ________________________________ 10 yrs in Europe. NOW in US! Unique weightloss program - Distributors needed. For FREE info - HIT REPLY and type: WEIGHTLOSS ________________________________ EAT CHOCOLATE - LOSE WEIGHT!! Amazing discovery has crowds lining up to enroll - it's a SPONSORING FRENZY! Exclusive patented ingredient in chocolate STOPS food and sweet cravings. Debt free MLM about to EXPLODE!!! For FREE info - HIT REPLY and type: CANDY ________________________________ Did you know that the internet is full of sites that offer FREE stuff? Reply now and get a FREE SAMPLE of one of these sites. For FREE SAMPLE - HIT REPLY and type: STUFF ________________________________ ====KM users, WE GOT IT!!! === World's Best Herbal Tonic got better! ORIGINAL KM chemist makes 20 herb 'BOTANOL" European Potency Standards. Improved flavor! Front Line /w Boreyko ties will help build your $5-20K/mo. income in 3-6 months. Call 602-503-0266 or HIT REPLY and type: KM _________________________________ Fast Cash * Experienced Networkers Only !! Successful business group uses pooled resources to Jump - Start successful networkers in #1 growth MLM. Don't need your $; just your experience & energy. Opportunity of a Lifetime. FAX resume to 602-503-0744 or - HIT REPLY and type: JUMP - Include w/ E-Mail a brief experience biography in message. _________________________________ **Obscene $$ on the INTERNET!! ** $19K per month in 5 months!! Lightning Speed Sales Growth. Really CRANKS!! Success magazine featured, Nov. 96. We train & coach qualified people. No capital investment. Leading products with dynamite marketing system. FREE info pack - HIT REPLY & type: BUNDLES _________________________________ +++ FREE Tape Offer +++ Exposes FDA & Drug Industry control of modern day medicine & gives LIFE SAVING health information. Better than Dead Doctor tape!! For FREE Tape HIT REPLY & type: SECRETS. (be sure to include postal address in message.) __________________________________ ** Could ENNIS COSBY'S DEATH have been PREVENTED? ** Shocking!! Is YOUR FAMILY Safe? Avoid life-threatening situations with these revolutionary auto products. HIT REPLY & type: SAFE __________________________________ >>CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR TICKER? << FREE Audio Tape - Dr. Ruhe tells how the Nation's #1 Killer, heart disease, can be stopped! Your life may depend on this information. To get Tape - HIT REPLY & type: TICKER. (be sure to include postal address) ___________________________________ GET IN TOUCH WITH YOUR LONG LOST FRIEND! MG Services will help you find and reunite with your long lost friend. For a FREE complete list of our services - HIT REPLY & type: UNITE ___________________________________ Make $$$ With Your Home PC. For FREE information - HIT REPLY & type: CASH ___________________________________ Real Home Publishing Business For FREE Information - HIT REPLY & type: PUBLISH ___________________________________ ****FREE Gossip about Movie Stars!! HIT REPLY & type: GOSSIP ___________________________________ *************************************** *************************************** *************************************** REGULAR RESPONSE SECTION: To respond to any of the following announcements, DO NOT HIT REPLY! Rather, follow the instructions in each ad. If sending an email for FREE information, you must create a NEW email and send it to the address in the ad. This is very important! If you hit "reply" for these ads, nothing will happen! You must send a separate request for each information offer. *************************************** *************************************** *************************************** (This is a Fund Raiser, and merits your support) ***SPORTS *** SCORES *** SPREADS *** NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB Sports & Entertainment Information For You!! Stay informed and up to date. Sports Results * Movie Reviews * Financial Updates * Updated Hourly!! 1-900-484-5800 ext. 8109 $2.99 per min. Must be 18 years. (Touch Tone Phone required) The proceeds from your call will be donated to Make - A - Wish Foundation ! (They Grant Wishes to Terminally Ill Children) ______________________________ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16 _____________________________ ***************INSTANT * AIDS * TEST ********************** ** HETERO-SEXUAL * HOMO-SEXUAL * BI-SEXUAL * HYPER-SEXUAL ** ****WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW * WHEN YOU NEED TO KNOW IT **** HERMETICALLY SEALED PACK OF 5 CREDIT CARD SIZE TESTS $10 TO DR. GREY PALADIN, 637 S. BROADWAY, B-105, BOULDER, CO 80303 ______________________________ Everyone has one! Earn your $$ off them! http://www.drbd.com ______________________________ Go with a proven system! We have 16 yrs experience helping people lose weight & keep it off with all natural, herbal - based products. E-Mail: herbalpc(a)answerme.com for details ______________________________ ******** TERM LIFE QUOTES ON-LINE ******* Our database shops over 180 insurance companies ... no sales pressure For quotes, visit our web site at ... http://www.hoot.com/insure ______________________________ Ultra tour BALATAS @ 60% off !!! $13.50 per w/3 doz min order. NEW logo'd Balatas 90 & 100 comp. For FREE Info - E-Mail me at JRGOLF(a)concentric.net ________________________________ MAKE MONEY IN GOLF - Need distributors to handle wholesale clubs, equipment, closeouts, etc., part / full time M/F. E-Mail for information at JRGOLF(a)concentric.net ________________________________ Own the NEW CAR of your choice for $695 out of pocket cost. For FREE DETAILS, send an E-Mail to our Auto - Responder: newcar(a)answerme.com ________________________________ Look Great, Feel Great, Lose Weight Go with a proven system! We have 16 yrs experience helping people lose weight & keep it off with all natural, herbal -based products. E-Mail: herbalpc(a)answerme.com for FREE details. _________________________________ ENCYCLOPEDIA INTERNET! "Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask, or don't know who to ask" For FREE Info - E-Mail autoresponder: request12(a)answerme.com put "BIZ12" in E-mail body. _________________________________ Don't Delete until you see the INTERNET'S FIRST SUPER SAVER STORE. FIRE sale pricing. Tons of products. FREE LIFETIME SHOPPING membership for the first few browsers - so surf NOW: http://www.isivn.com use member ID #02172. No Obligation! _________________________________ Great Business Opportunity, Complete Ligitimacy, $65,000 a year. Help others achieve Dreams, Go to: http://www.out.infront.com/Home.Business _________________________________ Lose Weight Yesterday, 100% Guaranteed, Different Plans for your budget. First enter $20,000 contest at: http://out.infront.com/contest *********************************************** ATTENTION ON-LINE ADVERTISERS! BE A SPONSOR AND GET YOUR MESSAGE OUT TO MILLIONS! If you would like to place your message before 1/2 million on-line readers a week, we can do it for you for as little as $10 per line! We mail to different people each week! We will get your message out to millions! We have a very economical plan to give you a real presence on the net. Find out how you can get a FREE week of E-Mail advertising!!! New Feature: " FLAME PROOF ADVERTISING." Get your message out without being bothered by Flames. No more TOS problems, no more warnings from your ISP. We filter out the problems! Call for details. We can also do an "Exclusive" mailing of your letter alone. For the "do-it-your-self" marketer, we can also provide you with your own mailing lists for your own direct E-Mail marketing. For full details, call our office @ 919-772-8855 9-5 Eastern Time - OR - HIT REPLY and type - ADINFO - in the message area. Our Auto-Responder will send you rates and ordering details. FREEDOM NEWSLETTER E-Mail Communications / Econo Promotions *********************************************** Quotes that make sense: "We tried to provide more for the poor and produced more poor instead. We tried to remove the barriers to escape poverty, and inadvertently built a trap" --Charles Murray "Character is doing what's right when nobody's watching" --Congressman J.C. Watts "The point to remember is that what the government gives, it must first take away." -- John S. Coleman "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." -- President Ronald W. Reagan June 6, 1984 - Normandy, France "Blessed is the Nation whose God is the Lord" -- Psalms 33:12 *****************************

1 0

Re: anonymous remailers
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Andrew Loewenstern <andrew_loewenstern(a)il.us.swissbank.com> writes: > Charley Musselman writes: > > Does anyone know the answer? Specifically, how can we choose > > a trusted remailer? > > The answer is to run your own remailer. Make sure your chain includes your > remailer at least once. If you can't trust yourself, who can you trust? Ummm, if you run your own remailer, and don't get lots of people to use it, then traffic analysis will reveal that you are the sender quite quickly. It will pretty much make everything in the chain before your remiler useless. If you send your message through remailers a, b, c, and d like this: you -> a -> b -> c -> d -> alt.drugs.and-other-various-horsemen and only you use c, then your effective chain is: someone who could only be you -> d -> alt.drugs.and-other-various-horsemen This chain is weak indeed. Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMvwyI8kz/YzIV3P5AQE6JgL/RJ9Y3GmZl2mQ0dK9tVtaZG7OW33xKHqV Ur9fQt3Yms19bCbq+bAWoeNC5ZPjXESCtGigPW3VmXVjCd4igPepk25dtzR1OcL+ In/0n9QcRqDvmupZFFdldY62orGQyVEm =JIWK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

NYC meeting?
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi there, are there any Cypherpunks-Meetings in NYC? Ciao Harka -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMvw4/DltEBIEF0MBAQEHXwf8D93/Y2XUteMNha8/sISuETEHz5U+t1Jo P27CX706L6qidSxUU8ytMLERAjpIw1khId6DBm/XiHNCS7lSR4PPLs3iW+wJRWTf 1OslxP8c7QuXLsr8QwFQQJ8S9BfYPMN08Kev9hUd7zX7tZJV6DToKe4msROME7Wx s5weFEpsRqUDH44c0fsDdo5486vuoSuqCmbfhfKqhvR4PwErwxLHoQ4AvUyj3YfL jSkt5QJFbA1iMDOQQBh4N/gKS0qsIUotDLtI+gLb7RI4828wF87M4pJLwyqOIohS oiV1PFWQx4n1gmG2kZh3PbkXYlOU1dzDwS6nDNx1ZR9mjdTiZ+cWdQ== =Cnr+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Privacy Problems with the IAHC New TLD Report SLD Policies
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The International Internet Ad-Hoc Committee released its report on new Top Level Domains for the Internet. It's interesting, and resulted from much political wrangling and religious conflict, and for the most part I think it's taking a reasonable approach to the problems, and I'm certainly not going to go postal like Postmaster Karl Denninger :-) A few particularly nice features: - .nom TLD, for name-based domains - Multiple registrars per name space, reducing the monopoly problem - trying to keep governments or PTTs from controlling it, though it's a bit big-business oriented for stability reasons. Mostly I wasn't worried, because sensible people were going to make sure they didn't do anything totally disastrous. Apparently I _should_ have been watching more closely, because the SLD _Second_ Level Domain part has some policies that seriously interfere with the privacy of potential domain name users. References and long quotes are below... To a large extent, they've been trying to avoid getting stuck in trademark problems by collecting lots of information and defining jurisdiction. In the process, they're asking you to sign away your first-born child in return for getting your name in the Yellow Pages(tm), and they're requiring all the Registrars to reject your application unless you do. The rules are especially inappropriate for the .nom domain, which is for personal names and such, and don't need overkill. There's a place for serious high-value commerce behaviour, and much of this isn't too inappropriate for .firm - but even that ignores the radical communication-pushed changes in the economy that make everybody able to run a worldwide business. It's not just that they want your email address (highly reasonable) or your phone and physical address (ought to be optional) or your IP address (they don't ask) or domain name (ok) or digital or written signature. It's not even just obnoxious things like demanding that you swear (against _my_ religion...) to a bunch of things, like "the reason for requesting this particular domain name" or what you're planning to do with the domain name (perfectly reasonable things to ask for as optional extras, and business may want to reveal these, but "Decline to State" or "" or "MYOB" are perfectly reasonable responses.) It's things like designating an agent for service of process, and "submits to the personal and subject matter jurisdiction and venue of a competent tribunal in the country where the registrar resides". Aside from believing that you ought to be able to choose what governments, if any, you're going to subject yourself to, I'd also expect that this would be annoying to people who don't live in one of the <=28 countries that get Registrars in them. And certainly if you're going to designate someone as an agent for service of process (you can use the Registrar) there'd better be some contractual language available so you can tell what you're swearing to. Is it reasonable to have a policy that users need to indicate how they'd like to receive communications about name and trademark disputes? Sure. And that they hold the Registrar harmless in such disputes? Probably. And which dispute resolution organization they're willing to have resolve disputes over names (a _much_ milder statement than "submit to personal and subject matter jurisdiction"....)? Yeah, even if the default is "the Registrar can disconnect your name if you don't respond to trademark complaints in N days." Certainly the Registrar ought to have some options here. ======================== REFERENCES =================================== The Final Report is at http://www.iahc.org/draft-iahc-recommend-00.html (nice name for a "final" report :-) The Application Forms for SLDs aren't in the draft on the web page, so I'm assuming they're referring to something similar to the December draft's Appendix. Mailing list archives are at http://www.iahc.org/iahc-discuss/ ========================================================================== QUOTES FROM THE REPORT ========================================================================== 6.1.5 Second-Level Domains SLD application Application for a second-level domain name must include: Sufficient contact and intended use information Appointment of an agent for service of process Agreement to jurisdiction in the event of trademark litigation. Mediation and arbitration clause (discussed in a later section) A separate document entitled "SLD Applications" (see section 1.4) contains the information that must be included in a SLD application. Applications submitted electronically must include state of the art electronic identification; written applications must be signed by the applicant, if an individual, or by an officer or other legally authorized representative if the applicant is an entity. Renewal and non-use To promote accountability, discourage extortion and minimize obsolete entries, SLD assignments must be renewed annually. Appendix B, attached, includes the information that must be included in a renewal application. Renewal applications submitted electronically must include state of the art electronic identification; written renewal applications must be signed by the applicant, if an individual, or by an officer or other legally authorized representative if the applicant is an entity. In addition to requiring annual renewal, CORE will develop policies to ensure the recovery of sub-domains which no longer have an authoritative source (lame delegations). 6.2 Discussion In order to ensure consistency of basic service across registrars, certain information is required in all applications for SLDs under gTLDs. It is desirable that a domain name application include sufficient information regarding the applicant and the applicant's intended use of the domain name to ensure applicant accountability and to ensure that sufficient information is available to enable trademark owners to assess the need for a challenge to the proposed SLD domain. ================= [more stuff] ================================================ 7.1.3 Publication All applications for SLDs in the gTLDs will be published on a publicly available, publicized web site, immediately upon receipt by the registrar. Such publication entries will include: Name of the SLD; Contact and use information contained in the application; A permanent tag or label (created by CORE) indicating whether the applicant chose the option of waiting 60 days prior to assignment of the requested SLD or chose to forego the 60 day wait; Entry validation using accepted digital signature and timestamping techniques. Those applicants choosing not to wait will not be in a position to claim the defensive benefit of the waiting period against a challenge, at any time, by a trademark owner. =================================================== ======================================================================= APPENDIX FROM DRAFT - SLD APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS ======================================================================= 11.1 Appendix A - SLD Application Requirements Every application for assignment of a SLD must include the following elements (incomplete applications must be returned to the applicant for completion): 1.Applicant's name, business or residential address, email address, fax and phone number(s). 2.The state or country of incorporation or partnership (if applicable). 3.The name and address of a designated agent for service of process where the registrar is located, which may be the applicant in the case of an individual. (The applicant may designate the registrar as the agent for service of process.) 4.A sworn statement by the individual applicant or by an officer or general partner of a corporate or partnership applicant: 1.that there is a bona fide intent to use the domain name publicly within 60 days of registration, and a bona fide intent to continue such use in the foreseeable future; 2.that the domain name will be used for [fill in the blank, e.g., "for a web site to advertise applicant's candy manufacturing business"]. This may be a broad statement and is not intended in any way to restrict actual use. However, to the extent that a commercial use is intended, this statement should identify the industry in which the use is intended to be made and should indicate which of the following uses will be made: web site, email, bulletin board and/other describe); 3.that the applicant believes that the intended use of the domain name will not infringe any rights of any other party; 4.that the reason for requesting this particular domain name is that it conforms to [check one of the following]: ___ applicant's company name or variation thereof ___ applicant's trademark or variation thereof ___ individual applicant's name or variation thereof ___ other (provide full explanation) 1.that the applicant submits to the personal and subject matter jurisdiction and venue of a competent tribunal in the country where the registrar resides for purposes of any action brought under trademark law, unfair competition laws, or similar/related laws arising out of actual or intended use of the domain name applied for; and applicant waives all rights to challenge such personal jurisdiction, subject matter jurisdiction and/or venue. ============================================================================ ======== # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Successfully Routing Around Censorship In Italy
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In Cu Digest, #9.07 -- see Cu Digest Homepage: http://www.soci.niu.edu/~cudigest/ * is a nice article on how an Italian mailing list was blocked by the University bureaucracy. LISA (Lista Italiana Sull'Accesso a Internet) is "an unmoderated area devoted to discussion about social, cultural and economic aspects related to the development of the Internet in Italy." Two days later they were up and running on a machine in Utah. > Choosing censorship instead of an open debate is > something we will never be willing to silently accept. > Laura Caponi > Owner of LISA > Lista Italiana Sull'Accesso a Internet * This issue isn't on the web page quite yet.... # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Re: lead remailer is shut down
by bs-org＠c2.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 21:42 1997-02-07 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >Raph's remailer list is at > http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html >and indicates lots of different remailer features, >including whether they accept or require PGP, >and what reliability they've been getting recently. Thanks, and it worked too... > >The remailer that was shut down was the remailer named "lead"; >you may have noticed that your reply went to a machine named "zinc"..... > >At 11:56 PM 2/7/97 +0100, you wrote: >>Can anybody give me the address of reliable remailer which accepts >>pgp messages. >> >>BTW which remailer was shut down and why? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ># Thanks; Bill ># Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com ># You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp ># (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.) > >

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Re: censorship and headers
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- the "message" example which follows is obviously a message which should have been destinated for owner-cypherpunks-flame. there is absolutely no indication of the differentation and the header shows: Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com when it should have shown: Sender: owner-cypherpunks-edited(a)toad.com let's put it this way, if cp is to be censored, might as well do the job correctly as this message was dumped into the main list. regardless, censoring what is supposed to be the free speech defenders of the online world is a poor example of our toleration for differing viewpoints, regardless of their alledged stupidity or off-topic value, or lack of value. So far, cypherpunks is showing less tolerance for freedom of speech that the United State Supreme Court. You all know something I dont? or do I need to start cleaning and oiling real soon? --attila +Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) + by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10780 + for <attila(a)primenet.com>; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 05:23:55 -0700 (MST) +Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id +EAA21727; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 04:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from +sirius.infonex.com (root(a)sirius.infonex.com [206.170.114.2]) by +toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA21718; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 +04:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.infonex.net +(dfbfl4-37.gate.net [199.227.103.228]) by sirius.infonex.com +(8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA26850 for cypherpunks(a)toad.com; Fri, 7 +Feb 1997 04:19:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: +<199702071219.EAA26850(a)sirius.infonex.com> Date: Friday, 07 Feb 97 +07:19:25 EST +To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com +From: winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net (WinSock Remailer) +X-Mailer: WinSock Remailer Version ALPHA1.3 +X-Comments: - +X-Comments: This message is NOT from winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net. It +was X-Comments: remailed by an automated anonymous remailer. +X-Comments: - +X-Comments: SEND ALL COMPLAINTS AND BLOCKING REQUESTS DIRECTLY TO: +X-Comments: REOP-L(a)cornell.edu <Remailer Operator's Network> +X-Comments: - +X-Comments: WinSock Remailer (winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net) +X-Comments: http://www.cyberpass.net/~winsock/ X-Comments: - +X-Remailer-Setup: Maximum Message Size -- None +X-Remailer-Setup: Reordering is ON, Mail Poolsize is 3 +X-Remailer-Setup: News Posting DISABLED +X-Remailer-Setup: Subject Header KILLED +X-Remailer-Setup: Logging OFF +X-Remailer-Setup: All messages must be PGP encrypted +Subject: Re: Sphere packings +Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com +Precedence: bulk +X-UIDL: e2bae6a70f8b97f156939d711ba124ba -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBMvxVZr04kQrCC2kFAQG7TwP/XI3wSXvMUgYdIqyjrXUN5CT5W/XVONqF jOfGDNxeTj+UbvIGuMzfcdxZB0X2lMCm8IptXncDfQgULIt6Fex9xfBmrlr1F12G xdnZKwoU9QUga27UX1Lyfw3V8uJYgx10h1o1/54CPAoFJVBhWwA5aI6RL/7hvoeI E/l3Tx9iIyE= =djYo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: unimbibing
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> I have been trying to get off this list for nearly a week now. The instructions given in the welcome message don't work. > Get me off this list now.! > I joined to learn about cryptography, not listen to some socially retarded juveniles argue over who's got the biggest dick. I participate in this list to discuss cryptography and related issues. If you have been reading posts discussing large genitalia you are probably confusing list traffic with private email from your gay friends. Here are instructions telling you how to unsubscribe: To unsubscribe from the cypherpunks mailing list: Send a message to majordomo(a)toad.com with the *MESSAGE BODY* reading exactly as follows: unsubscribe cypherpunks you(a)your.domain.com Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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