December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Keywords scanning/speech recognition
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Amanda Walker wrote: > John Kelsey <kelsey(a)email.plnet.net> wrote: > This may or may not be relevant, but I was a math major during an NSA college- > recruitment drive in the early 1980s. As part of the "come work for the NSA" > packet they were giving out, they had a sample issue of the NSA internal > linguistics journal. One of the articles concerned a system called DYPTRACK, > which tracked the pitch of a digitized voice signal to an impressive degree of > accuracy. This would imply that the NSA, at least, had invested considerable > resources into digital speech analysis as early as the late 1960s or early > 1970s (since by 1980 DYPTRACK was un-sensitive enough to be described in > college recruitment material). I have a CD today (used to be an LP in the late 1970's) of Enrico Caruso arias, digitally processed thru something called Stockham/ Soundstream digital process, circa mid-late 1970's. They took a number of samples of a modern (1970's) tenor's singing (someone whose voice had similar characteristics to Caruso's) and had the computer run it against the original Caruso recordings in an attempt to subtract out extraneous noise, resonances, and so on. The process helped somewhat, making the voice seem closer intead of somewhere a couple of rooms over, but the essential quality of the mechanically-recorded sound was still there, i.e., very dull and not at all life-like. They were supposed to release a lot more of this stuff, and they did some, but major interest was never there, and I haven't heard any more about further research in the intervening years, although I'll bet it's gone way beyond where it was.

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encrypted WinTalk/e-mails
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi there, does anybody know about an encrypting snoop-proof version of WinTalk (or a similar ytalk-style program)? If so, please copy replies to my private e-mail, for I am currently not subscribed to the CP list... Thanks in advance for your help... Harka PS: Here is also a collection of free (anonymous?) e-mail account services for those, who are interested...(sorry about the html-tags). <li>NetForward <li>HoTMaiL <li>Trale <li>WWDG Free Email <li>MailMasher <li>StarMail Over 100 domains to choose from!! <li>iName Over 100 domains to choose from!! <li>Geocities <li>Juno <li>Net@ddress <li>Bigfoot <li>MailHost <li>POBox <li>POBoxes <li>PEmail <li>La Jolla Shores <li>From.Net /*************************************************************/ /* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE * */ /* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! * * */ /* * * */ /* E-mail: harka(a)nycmetro.com * * */ /* * */ /* Finger or E-Mail for PGP public key. * * */ /* Key Size: 2047 / KeyID: 04174301 * * */ /* Fingerprint: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 http://www.eff.org */ /* 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBMuRqMTltEBIEF0MBAQEKygf+KQEkQE/yH10cgly1aIJExAX+p2kPmcPb f/ro2ulaYrs4gklKff60HE0AD39SBmTGnCI4dUzOLy0UfgTyifQ/W8H+1b1GU0Bb UnFhvWCCc8KPOY6Kf4ZpdtdRsyJjqAKjyYthKAEIKmG/m/ZHI2uJ0+F1GYhtjyhO IE5RrCImncjLW3uaXxnktzy4+jDeoQEXCVRm6muIZj/TPgTvzabkMzK5Udy0Nm1n vjevvcAiA65PWnbAT+v+GNFPZq4bW//bEnzDYYXBD++QrC7bSGXe73iS2HbrVu3Y gQg7pseOdbS5bkudhw/pqcTl5zvcdvGoQfnXZpbp4VviSwWs045vjg== =jw27 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Re: Thoughts re moderation, filtering, and name changes
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn wrote: > hjk wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Dale Thorn wrote: > > > hjk wrote: > > > > Now whatever you think of your fellow citizens, or even those of the > > > USA (to name an example), I'm sure is OK on whatever basis you apply > > > your judgement. But I guarantee you that the people on the cypherpunks > > > list are no more or less intelligent than the people who vegetate in > > > front of their TV sets every day, right there where you live, in all > > > probability. If you believe that your fellow citizens vote intelligently, > > > then I respond that cypherpunks vote intelligently. What do you think? > > > Well, I thought cypherpunks claim to be elite. > > Most of the erstwhile elite types do the ordinary things in a quite > ordinary way. Get dressed, eat, collect and send e-mail, and so on. > > The un-ordinary things (for example) are the thought processes which > take place while typing out a post. Those thought processes don't > generally intersect directly with the mundane things such as operating > the computer, unless the operations themselves are unusual and demand > the full attention of the person involved. > So what? - Igor.

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Re: Encrypting ZIP drives?
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > I am looking for a transparent (strong) encryption of ZIP drives. Any advice would be appreciated. > For which OS, and SCSI or Parallel version?

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Re: fingerd
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > Couple of things you can do: > > 2. Install a more secure "fingerd" such that it only > > allows "finger `userid(a)node.domain`" instead of > > "finger `(a)node.domain`". > > While I've seen #2 in action, I don't know where to go to snarf it. I just > > use #1. > Anyone know where to 'snarf it'? cfingerd can be gotten from: ftp.bitgate.com/pub/cfingerd/pub/cfingerd -or- sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Network/finger There are a couple of other fingerd's in the sunsite directory. Cfinger seemed to be the best last time I was looking for a fingerd.

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Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thorn: > Alec wrote: > The idea that "sin" and "evil" are abstract and somewhat arbitrary is > merely a human (and therefore faulty) perception. > If God can be perfect by definition (for sake of argument), then "sin" Somewhere in the above three lines, someone is making a hell of an asumption. See also "The Euthphro Question", plato. > A gentleman wrote to Southern Partisan magazine a few years ago and > said "Real freedom is not the license to do whatever you want, but > rather the liberty to do what you ought to do". No, real freedom is being able to decide for yourself what you ought to do--or--who the hell decides what I ought to do?

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Re: Keywords scanning/speech recognition
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Amanda Walker wrote: > John Kelsey <kelsey(a)email.plnet.net> wrote: > This may or may not be relevant, but I was a math major during an NSA college- > recruitment drive in the early 1980s. As part of the "come work for the NSA" > packet they were giving out, they had a sample issue of the NSA internal > linguistics journal. One of the articles concerned a system called DYPTRACK, > which tracked the pitch of a digitized voice signal to an impressive degree of > accuracy. This would imply that the NSA, at least, had invested considerable > resources into digital speech analysis as early as the late 1960s or early > 1970s (since by 1980 DYPTRACK was un-sensitive enough to be described in > college recruitment material). I have a CD today (used to be an LP in the late 1970's) of Enrico Caruso arias, digitally processed thru something called Stockham/ Soundstream digital process, circa mid-late 1970's. They took a number of samples of a modern (1970's) tenor's singing (someone whose voice had similar characteristics to Caruso's) and had the computer run it against the original Caruso recordings in an attempt to subtract out extraneous noise, resonances, and so on. The process helped somewhat, making the voice seem closer intead of somewhere a couple of rooms over, but the essential quality of the mechanically-recorded sound was still there, i.e., very dull and not at all life-like. They were supposed to release a lot more of this stuff, and they did some, but major interest was never there, and I haven't heard any more about further research in the intervening years, although I'll bet it's gone way beyond where it was.

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Re: Decision in Karn Case
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anonymous wrote: > > In light of the recent Executive Order transferring > > regulatory authority of non-military cryptographic computer > > source code to the Commerce Department, and the Commerce > > Department's promulgation of a new regulation under the authority > > of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, 50 U.S.C. secs. > > 1701 et seq., we remand this case to the district court to > > consider the reviewability of and, if appropriate, the merits of > > appellant's claim under the Administrative Procedure Act. > > And when that review finally reaches the appeals court, > the administration can move the regulations to the state department. Look on the bright side. Maybe they'll move them around so much that they'll lose them. > The uniqueness of the anti-crypto regulations is that it is a law > against intellectuals and academics. These people will not be willing to > break the law and then challenge its constitutionality in the courts, > or engage in any kind of civil disobedience demonstration. That is why the thugs and the brown-shirts always start by attacking scattered individuals and those they can easily brand 'troublemakers.' (Only in rare instances, do they start with Doctors). The intellectuals and academics might, at best, utter a few tut-tut's, and by the time that the rule of force has become the order of the day, there is no longer anyone 'below' them left free to object to the attacks on themselves. Toto

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Re: YEEHAW! Tobacco argument heats up in AZ
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Attila T. Hun wrote: > summary: AZ AG filed for an injunction in the public interest to stop > the sale of tobacco in AZ. tobacco company response claimed he was > infringing on legislative rights... full story is below. > :: PHOENIX, Arizona (Reuter) - The tobacco industry filed > :: motions on Tuesday in a bid to dismiss the Arizona Attorney > :: General's law suit which seeks to ban the sale of tobacco in the > :: state. Lawyers for two of the defendants, Brown & Williamson > :: Tobacco Corp. and Philip Morris Cos Inc. (MO.N), said in a > :: statement the proposed ban would eliminate tax revenue from the > :: sale of tobacco which is used to fund healthcare and education > :: programs statewide. The Indians in Arizona have some special tax breaks on cigs, as a "sovereign nation" treaty deal or something, yes? Would this ban create any interesting opportunities?

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at least we have some friends...
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- +New encryption bill on way +By Alex Lash +January 22, 1997, 8:45 p.m. PT +see http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C7236%2C00.html?nd +Sen. Conrad Burns (R-Montana) next week will reintroduce legislation +aimed at wiping out most Commerce Department restrictions on the +export of software encryption, his press secretary said today. +The new version of the so-called Pro-Code bill, which died in the +Senate Commerce Committee last year after a series of high-profile +hearings, will be unchanged and should have the same support it +gained in the 1996 session, Burns's press secretary Matt Raymond said. +"The language was not something that was arrived at lightly," Raymond +said. "We should have time for a more robust and considerate debate" +compared with last year's unsuccessful rush to get the bill passed, +he added. +Burns, a leading figure on the Senate Commerce Committee, is set to +appear via satellite Tuesday at the RSA Data Security Conference in +San Francisco to announce the bill's reintroduction. +Foes of the Clinton administration's current encryption regulations, +which became effective on January 1, are looking for Congress to +legislate more liberal export guildelines. Last year, the Pro-Code +bill won the support of many key members of Congress who remain in +office and want to modify Clinton's encryption plan. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMucJKr04kQrCC2kFAQGcjwP/cjxEQcxixtx1nEg5lC6cBXK85Ff8FIkn 4x176KJokc4RSD1fNWhJkeHUYi1HCrp6nD4VsNP9Ud3c9rC2XNcGtnTEDAwZ0ikS 03kz9fUqptU6GE+Mrjl/FLhcDfSYlTUsFrFKYcTuge2nVJUAz2+kbaFg4qT9njyO 1vro9FplgIw= =ktMy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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encrypted WinTalk/e-mails
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi there, does anybody know about an encrypting snoop-proof version of WinTalk (or a similar ytalk-style program)? If so, please copy replies to my private e-mail, for I am currently not subscribed to the CP list... Thanks in advance for your help... Harka PS: Here is also a collection of free (anonymous?) e-mail account services for those, who are interested...(sorry about the html-tags). <li>NetForward <li>HoTMaiL <li>Trale <li>WWDG Free Email <li>MailMasher <li>StarMail Over 100 domains to choose from!! <li>iName Over 100 domains to choose from!! <li>Geocities <li>Juno <li>Net@ddress <li>Bigfoot <li>MailHost <li>POBox <li>POBoxes <li>PEmail <li>La Jolla Shores <li>From.Net /*************************************************************/ /* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE * */ /* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! * * */ /* * * */ /* E-mail: harka(a)nycmetro.com * * */ /* * */ /* Finger or E-Mail for PGP public key. * * */ /* Key Size: 2047 / KeyID: 04174301 * * */ /* Fingerprint: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 http://www.eff.org */ /* 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBMuRqMTltEBIEF0MBAQEKygf+KQEkQE/yH10cgly1aIJExAX+p2kPmcPb f/ro2ulaYrs4gklKff60HE0AD39SBmTGnCI4dUzOLy0UfgTyifQ/W8H+1b1GU0Bb UnFhvWCCc8KPOY6Kf4ZpdtdRsyJjqAKjyYthKAEIKmG/m/ZHI2uJ0+F1GYhtjyhO IE5RrCImncjLW3uaXxnktzy4+jDeoQEXCVRm6muIZj/TPgTvzabkMzK5Udy0Nm1n vjevvcAiA65PWnbAT+v+GNFPZq4bW//bEnzDYYXBD++QrC7bSGXe73iS2HbrVu3Y gQg7pseOdbS5bkudhw/pqcTl5zvcdvGoQfnXZpbp4VviSwWs045vjg== =jw27 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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wired news: Germany Gets Radikal About Extremists on Web
by tank 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

T O P S T O R I E S Germany Gets Radikal About Extremists on Web Tuesday - Are the German government's tactics for barring extremist material on the Internet realistic? Germany Gets Radikal About Extremists on Web by Rebecca Vesely 5:03 pm PST 21 Jan 97 - The German government, never shy about expressing its disdain for left- and right-wing radicals inside its borders, has taken to combing the Internet for signs of extremist activity. But Germany's effort to stop the distribution of terrorist manuals and Nazi propaganda is like pointing a fire hose at a beehive - instead of quashing the bees, it only scatters them, and makes them more insistent. Last week, German authorities filed charges against a member of the communist Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS), Angela Marquardt, for linking to the banned left-wing magazine Radikal from her homepage, causing Net activists to anticipate another incident like that last September, when several German ISPs temporarily blocked Radikal's server, XS4All. In response, the magazine was mirrored on more than 50 Web sites around the world. "The decision to prosecute for linking to Radikal will probably bring yet another escalation of events, where this censored magazine will become all the more popular on the Net," said Felipe Rodriquez, managing director of XS4All, which is based in the Netherlands. "Censoring the Internet is usually very counterproductive, and an insurance that many people will mirror the information and start distributing it." XS4All, which describes itself as "networking for the masses," hosts some 4,600 homepages, and was recently in the news for posting several homepages for media banned in Serbia, such as Radio B92, that continue to offer via the Web live RealAudio feeds and frequent updates on the continued nationwide protests against the Serbian government. Banned in Germany 12 years ago, and published underground for the past decade, Radikal advocates the overthrow of the German government. German officials say the magazine's publishers provide terrorist information in their pages, including how to sabotage train lines. But the publishers argue that they have the right to publish material contrary to the German government. "We fundamentally reject the notion that the state has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force," the publishers wrote in an article titled "Who We Are" in 1995. "The existing social conditions can only be changed if left-radical groups and associations build up their abilities and structures so as to be able to counter some of these effects even today. This, of course, includes militant and armed intervention, but these would be empty gestures if there wasn't also some sort of linkage or means of conveying their message." While publishers continue to produce the magazine in print form outside of Germany, sympathizers have been posting it to a homepage on XS4All. "As an act of solidarity with them and with Radikal we decided to put it on the Internet and, of course, to frustrate this censorship attempt of the German authorities," the sympathizers wrote in an email to Wired News. They added that while they had no contact with the publishers of Radikal, they are currently being investigated by Germany's public prosecutor general and have no plans to "go on holiday in Germany." Although Radikal is not banned in the Netherlands, the German government says that linking to the magazine from inside Germany is "aiding a felony," spokesman Ruediger Reiff told Reuters. In December, Chancellor Helmut Kohl's Cabinet approved a bill banning the electronic distribution of forms of hate speech, terrorism, and indecent material. The new German law places responsibility on the loosely defined "suppliers," and in response, CompuServe considered moving its administrative operations to a neighboring country. PDS member Marquardt says her prosecution has less to do with Radikal, than an attempt to quiet German citizens who, like herself, are outspoken critics of the government. "This is hardly about bomb-building instructions or highly detailed descriptions of train lines and their weaknesses," Marquardt, who could not be reached for comment, wrote in a statement posted on her Web site. "The all-too-stubborn guardians of the state will quickly learn: The Net interprets censorship as a malfunction and circumvents it." In the meantime, XS4All has not received any official communication from the German Justice Department, nor from the Dutch Justice Department. "Our policy is that as a provider we are not in the position to judge whether this magazine is illegal in the Netherlands, therefore we do not interfere with the liberty of speech of our user," XS4All's Rodriquez said. Copyright =A9 1993-97 Wired Ventures, Inc. and affiliated companies=

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate wrote: > > Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd) > > > 'We' shouldn't, it is their own country and it is up to their populace to > > > stop it. > > And Germany was Hitler and the Nazi Party's own country. > And your point is? Are you equating a specific individual or organization > with Hitler or the National Socialist? Sorry, I forgot that people who work well with numbers often aren't as good at working with concepts. I'll write slowly. I'm equating 'any' country where individuals take and keep power over it's citizen by illicit and/or dehumanizing means with Nazism and Fascism. > If the people in those counties want to give away their freedom that > is their business (and right), not mine, yours, or this countries unless > there is evidence they are trying to take their views and impose them here. Right. And if someone 'chooses' to give their money to a thief with a gun, then it is not the business of other people, or the police. I would hate to interfere with someones 'right' to get robbed, raped, or murdered. > In reference to Hitler, had he stayed in his own > country WWII and the ensuing half century of conflict would most likely not > have occured. But according to your viewpoint, countries he had not invaded had no right to 'help' those he conquered. Perhaps Hitler was merely the Dr. Vulis of isolationism. The isolationists' claims that the affairs of other countries were not our affairs changed rather rapidly when it became apparent that they had better either get their heads out of their butts, or learn to speak German. > I say, let them filter themselves into economic collapse, intellectual > nihilism, and political suicide. Suicide, assissted or otherwise, is a right > any and all individuals have whether acting as individuals or as groups. It seems that several million Jews got 'filtered' into 'nihilism' during the Second World War while the isolationists were busy not interfering with the rights of individuals in other nations to commit 'suicide' at the hands of the Nazis. > Never forget, a tree can exist without a forest but a forest can not exist > without trees. It is a one way street however much some people may want to > convince us otherwise. Never forget. A forest can apparently exist without Jewish trees. > If those people agree to support a system that limits or controls what > information they get to see that is their choice. It didn't work in Russia > and it won't work in Singapore or China any better. There are a lot of people lying in graves around the world who might suggest that perhaps they didn't support the system that limited, controlled, and murdered them. They might also argue that it 'did' work in many countries, for many years. > > No. The internet was conceived so that the DOD could monitor the > > communications > > of physicists and researchers who thought it was awfully nice of the > > government > > to provide this wonderful method of sharing data and information. > > The original goal > of the Internet was to allow computers to be connected in a nuclear conflict > and the period afterward when communications would be most critical. I believe you mean the 'stated' original goal of the InterNet. (Similar to the 'stated' goal of crypto regulations.) A series of manuscripts entitled "The True Story of the InterNet" expose the shadowy faces behind the facade of the InterNet, and the plans, during its very inception, for it to become part of the underlying fabric of everyday life, internationally. They were almost considered to be sci-fiction at the time they were written, because the InterNet, at the time was just a smallish, specialized, technical entity at the time. The claims they made for the InterNet being foreordained to become almost exactly what it is now becoming were written off as ludicrous. > One of the biggest problems this country has right now is the inability of > people like yourself to differentiate the difference between the ideals of > the country and the people who impliment it. You seem to have very strong feelings about people who think differently from yourself being a 'big problem'. > The problem is not the > government or the ideals it was founded on but rather the way we impliment > it. The battle cry of every apologist for every corrupt or jackboot regime that has ever existed on earth. Why do I never hear this view from anyone who is being censored, persecuted, or who can hear the jackboots thumping against their own door or their neighbor's door? It always seems to come from someone who is getting their piece of the pie and is worried that it might end. > Our government is people, who put their pants on the same way you or I > do (assuming you wear pants that is). They are not inherently some mineon of > Hell, they are people who in general either don't give a damn and it's just > a job or else they really believe what they are doing. You might try reading something other than 'Life' magazines from the 1950's if you want to get a little better picture of how our government really operates. > Accept and deal with your schizophrenic tendencies and help solve this > national problem we face. Let's try to solve it now so that our > grandchildren won't have to fight this fight again. I'm already working toward solving the problems that I see, in other countries as well as this one. The people behind the Iron Curtain have never seemed to have any problem with me risking my life and liberty making prohibited information available to them. "I can hear the rumbling of the trucks as they come up the street, and soon I will be hearing the thumping of the jackboots storming up the staircase, as I have heard them so many times before. But I suspect that, this time, the sound will be different, that it will have an ethereal quality about it, one which conveys greater personal meaning than it did when I heard it on previous occasions. "This time, they are coming for me." "My only hope, is that I can find the strength of character somewhere inside myself to ask the question which lies at the heart of why there is a 'they' to come for me at all...why, in the end, it has finally come to this for me, as for countless others. "The question is, in retrospect, as simple and basic as it is essential for any who still espouse the concepts of freedom and liberty to ask themselves upon finding themselves marveling at the outrageousness being perpetrated upon their neighbors by 'them'...by 'others'...by 'Friends of the Destroyer.' "The question is...'Why didn't "I" do something?'" A quote from the personal diary of Vice-Admiral B. D'Shauneaux, from the Prologue to Part II of 'The True Story of the InterNet' Toto

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Re: Thoughts re moderation, filtering, and name changes
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Dale Thorn wrote: > > hjk wrote: > > > On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Dale Thorn wrote: > > Most of the erstwhile elite types do the ordinary things in a quite > > ordinary way. Get dressed, eat, collect and send e-mail, and so on. > > The un-ordinary things (for example) are the thought processes which > > take place while typing out a post. Those thought processes don't > > generally intersect directly with the mundane things such as operating > > the computer, unless the operations themselves are unusual and demand > > the full attention of the person involved. > So what? The so what is that hjk believed that since cypherpunks were "elite", it followed that they would notice certain administrative messages more than non-elite people, and also remember those messages better. I had no contention with the remember-better part, assuming that was stated somewhere, but my argument is that greater intelligence does not necessarily lead to paying better attention to mundane everyday things like administrative messages and notices. The specific example was whether most cypherpunks subscribers would take more than momentary notice of the new list arrangements, and whether they would consciously think about whether they should change their status (subscription), and if so, why. My contention is that most would not give it any serious amount of attention. This is no different IMO than whether erstwhile "intelligent" people pay greater attention to road signs while driving than people of average mental power do.

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Re: P.S. David Kahn's editorial today
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Carl Ellison wrote: | I just sent the following P.S. to newsday.com | ---------------------- | | If I use an AT&T Clipper-style cellular phone, as David suggested, and I | call you on a normal wired phone, we can't encrypt the conversation and it | is vulnerable to interception. The protection works *only* if both parties | have encrypting phones while interoperate. Its worth thinking about multiple layers of protection for a datastream. The end to end encryption issue is seperate from the issue of mobile to base encryption (and mobile to base authentication, for that matter.) Compute power is getting cheap enough that doing both seems roughly feasable to me. Multiple protective layers is also nice in an environment where theres policy checking going on, ie, a firewall. SSL only gets plugged through a firewall because it can't be partially unwrapped. I can't proxy in any meaningful sense. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

snow wrote: > Thorn: > > Alec wrote: > > The idea that "sin" and "evil" are abstract and somewhat arbitrary is > > merely a human (and therefore faulty) perception. > > If God can be perfect by definition (for sake of argument), then "sin" > Somewhere in the above three lines, someone is making a hell of an > asumption. See also "The Euthphro Question", plato. Humans do OK with simple issues, example: 1 + 1 = 2. Especially true if the issue has no inherent moral/ethical tie-in. Once you get past the simple, however, you start seeing motivation, personal imperative, etc., which leads to hidden agendas and lies. When I speak of God, I'm not surrendering any personal power, or subscribing to your God concept necessarily (e.g. Plato), I'm just defining an object of pure reason that is free of human self-interest, for sake of argument. > > A gentleman wrote to Southern Partisan magazine a few years ago and > > said "Real freedom is not the license to do whatever you want, but > > rather the liberty to do what you ought to do". > No, real freedom is being able to decide for yourself what you ought to > do--or--who the hell decides what I ought to do? My example shows that real freedom goes hand-in-hand with responsibility. A person could interpret my example in a way that "what you ought to do" is defined and controlled by external parties, but that was not my point or the point of the original author.

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[Noise] From The Onion
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

SATAN TO REVISE BAR CODE SYSTEM NEW YORK--Responding to retailers' calls to "streamline the Mark of the Beast," Satan announced plans Monday to make significant changes in the UPC symbol by the end of the millenium. "All men, small and great, rich and poor, slave and free, shall bear the mark of the beast," Satan said. The mark, "666," now hidden in every UPC symbol, may be more effective if taken off products and burned directly onto consumers' foreheads or hands, according to The Father of Lies. Said National Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan: "As foretold in the Book of Revelations, it shall come to pass that no man shall be able to buy or sell without the Mark of the Beast." The new bar code system will be introduced through a series of televised public-service announcements featuring Friends star Matthew Perry and Satan, who will appear as a beast with seven heads and ten horns. http://www.theonion.com/onion3102/index3102.html -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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[Noise] From The Onion
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

SATAN TO REVISE BAR CODE SYSTEM NEW YORK--Responding to retailers' calls to "streamline the Mark of the Beast," Satan announced plans Monday to make significant changes in the UPC symbol by the end of the millenium. "All men, small and great, rich and poor, slave and free, shall bear the mark of the beast," Satan said. The mark, "666," now hidden in every UPC symbol, may be more effective if taken off products and burned directly onto consumers' foreheads or hands, according to The Father of Lies. Said National Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan: "As foretold in the Book of Revelations, it shall come to pass that no man shall be able to buy or sell without the Mark of the Beast." The new bar code system will be introduced through a series of televised public-service announcements featuring Friends star Matthew Perry and Satan, who will appear as a beast with seven heads and ten horns. http://www.theonion.com/onion3102/index3102.html -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

1 0

RE: greed and the internet
by Internaut 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Will you send some references for Internet II and the government hubs? Thx, Internaut ---------- From: Attila T. Hun[SMTP:attila@primenet.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 1997 08.32 PM To: cypherpunks Subject: greed and the internet -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- greed and the internet our network provider (MCI) has been gradually burying our T1 trunk and the effective feed has been reduced to 1200 baud from 1.56 Megabaud; that, and add 20 seconds to 5+ minutes of packet hold, and it is now worthless. they claim they will have increased capacity, but there are no pressing big money commercial interests on this feeder --so when? Problem is not just here --everywhere; the greedy commercial bastards have oversold their network space intentionally as they are bucking for per packet and timed usage charges which are currently prohibited by the FCC and the state PUCs. The FCC is the key since other than the local network, which is burdened with the costs of the trunk, everything is regulated by the FCC which is trying to totally eliminate the state PUCs in the 105th Congress, Newt's mouth not withstanding. The FCC agreed to review the matter, capitulating to big greed interests, which will make the Internet a rich man's toy. $19.95/month plus access charges will increase to thousands of dollars per month; slow networks make toast of the free hours and overtime kills. Without the creative input of the multitude, there will be no content, so why have a net other than for commercial purposes? suites the misinformation cabal just fine. Well, the FCC granted a reprieve --for the moment. but will come up again, and again, until it passes. The Internet will no no longer be the peoples net, and the commercial greedies are establishing a faster, more secure network with controlled access points; leaving the common man's access in the mud, still paying the exorbitant rates on a pay before play basis. That, and it gives control of information to the government --which, as we all know. is 'heavenly white' -above sin. Universities are being bought off with the 'Internet II' proposal which provides super trunks of over 600 Megabaud capacity, a 400 times improvement. All of this feeds into five stategically placed super-hubs where Uncle's shadow government can monitor everything. The Internet was supposed to be our freedom: freedom of information and government in the sunshine, but government is proving it is still bigger, faster, and badder by using draconian rules of illegal regulatory agencies. agencies which are usurping rights limited to the legislative branch. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMubOW704kQrCC2kFAQE0gQQAxrkUhyX5wl+dZ/i6ajMJXAD7f+gpvc6Z CBik+g62RqWrMbOblfLRubhEIWUfK2FQxIBRJ+0cQezCH4IfM1CxbytJ4Cx3BBBs GwHGuhTfLnGVnuCAugguRdNUrd/tXaN47pAVqmg330XvLlTJqha8ODPsi2b+7qst 2z8qbOW0cqo= =M9c5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

RE: greed and the internet
by Internaut 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Will you send some references for Internet II and the government hubs? Thx, Internaut ---------- From: Attila T. Hun[SMTP:attila@primenet.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 1997 08.32 PM To: cypherpunks Subject: greed and the internet -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- greed and the internet our network provider (MCI) has been gradually burying our T1 trunk and the effective feed has been reduced to 1200 baud from 1.56 Megabaud; that, and add 20 seconds to 5+ minutes of packet hold, and it is now worthless. they claim they will have increased capacity, but there are no pressing big money commercial interests on this feeder --so when? Problem is not just here --everywhere; the greedy commercial bastards have oversold their network space intentionally as they are bucking for per packet and timed usage charges which are currently prohibited by the FCC and the state PUCs. The FCC is the key since other than the local network, which is burdened with the costs of the trunk, everything is regulated by the FCC which is trying to totally eliminate the state PUCs in the 105th Congress, Newt's mouth not withstanding. The FCC agreed to review the matter, capitulating to big greed interests, which will make the Internet a rich man's toy. $19.95/month plus access charges will increase to thousands of dollars per month; slow networks make toast of the free hours and overtime kills. Without the creative input of the multitude, there will be no content, so why have a net other than for commercial purposes? suites the misinformation cabal just fine. Well, the FCC granted a reprieve --for the moment. but will come up again, and again, until it passes. The Internet will no no longer be the peoples net, and the commercial greedies are establishing a faster, more secure network with controlled access points; leaving the common man's access in the mud, still paying the exorbitant rates on a pay before play basis. That, and it gives control of information to the government --which, as we all know. is 'heavenly white' -above sin. Universities are being bought off with the 'Internet II' proposal which provides super trunks of over 600 Megabaud capacity, a 400 times improvement. All of this feeds into five stategically placed super-hubs where Uncle's shadow government can monitor everything. The Internet was supposed to be our freedom: freedom of information and government in the sunshine, but government is proving it is still bigger, faster, and badder by using draconian rules of illegal regulatory agencies. agencies which are usurping rights limited to the legislative branch. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMubOW704kQrCC2kFAQE0gQQAxrkUhyX5wl+dZ/i6ajMJXAD7f+gpvc6Z CBik+g62RqWrMbOblfLRubhEIWUfK2FQxIBRJ+0cQezCH4IfM1CxbytJ4Cx3BBBs GwHGuhTfLnGVnuCAugguRdNUrd/tXaN47pAVqmg330XvLlTJqha8ODPsi2b+7qst 2z8qbOW0cqo= =M9c5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

Add To Your Monthly Income!!
by CV Communications 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The following message has been brought to you by Quantum Communications. If you would like advertising rates and information, send an email to info(a)quantcom.com or visit our website http://www.quantcom.com If you prefer NOT to receive promotional messages inthe future, send an email to remove(a)quantcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ADD $250.00 TO YOUR MONTHLY INCOME!!! ADD $250.00 TO YOUR MONTHLY INCOME WITHOUT SELLING AND KNOW YOU'LL WIN BEFORE YOU BEGIN!! Join a program that provides you with ALL THE TOOLS for success at NO COST TO YOU! *A FREE WEBPAGE *A FREE AUTORESPONDER *FREE SNAILMAILERS *FREE MAILING LABELS *FREE DOWNLINE BUILDING *FREE GENEOLOGY REPORTS *NO MEETINGS *NO INVENTORY *NO MAJOR INVESTMENT *NO GROUP VOLUME REQUIREMENTS *NO HASSLES! *NO SURPRISES! YOU WILL BE THE LOSER IF YOU FAIL TO CHECK THIS ONE OUT! IT REALLY IS THE BEST OPPORTUNITY AVAILABLE. IT NOT ONLY PROMISES, BUT ALSO DELIVERS. ON THE NET, EMAIL COST(a)QUANTCOM.COM FOR FULL DETAILS WITH NO ARM-TWISTING FROM ME.

1 0

No Dimitri??
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have noticed that there has not been any post from Dimitri in a couple of days. I am assuming that this means that the list moderation has now started? - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. Finger whgiii(a)amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info - ----------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Logic, not magic. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMuexAI9Co1n+aLhhAQGcIAQAkEhaPi0bljU274ZXgkjU3rXFmIrUS4dm OEm0CqTH0eGDYHyftEyGdwI8ibKukC9SVpgG8bzgKHP+O4tjXJN+afcVAHbTxaMy uVqxgsvOexUR0tFKVCQ7MySMwCyDudCSbsDgf8Ox2swISwmIOqaxwLrBF5DqDy9w G6JNq5gUruo= =hIV+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

No Dimitri??
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have noticed that there has not been any post from Dimitri in a couple of days. I am assuming that this means that the list moderation has now started? - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. Finger whgiii(a)amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info - ----------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Logic, not magic. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMuexAI9Co1n+aLhhAQGcIAQAkEhaPi0bljU274ZXgkjU3rXFmIrUS4dm OEm0CqTH0eGDYHyftEyGdwI8ibKukC9SVpgG8bzgKHP+O4tjXJN+afcVAHbTxaMy uVqxgsvOexUR0tFKVCQ7MySMwCyDudCSbsDgf8Ox2swISwmIOqaxwLrBF5DqDy9w G6JNq5gUruo= =hIV+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

3 2

Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Asgaard 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Jim Choate wrote: >The Web does not equal the Internet, straw man argument. A semantic comment: We here all know that this is right but it's obvious that the language is sliding towards Internet = Web. Most people using tcp/ip email don't think about this as using the Internet. Another list I'm on has recently set up a Hypermail site on the Web, mingling transparently with the list, for those who are overwhelmed by 100 posts a day (it's a proffessional list unrelated to computers per se). When people here about it they say: 'Wow, I didn't know you had access to the list on the Internet too!' It's treated the same on television, in the US as well as here in Sweden, Internet = Web and nothing else. It will be hard for us who have been around for a while, and to fresh computer litterates who know something of what's behind the screen, to relearn the use of the term 'Internet'. But we will eventually have to accept it or become 'dinosaurs', that's the way language evolution works. Asgaard

1 0

Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation (fwd)
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:20 PM 1/23/97 +1100, proff(a)suburbia.net wrote: ... >The catch is that positive votes are inherently more valuable than >negative votes, since to obstruct progress requires a number of votes >equal to the outstanding proposals, but to move forward a proposal only >requires a number of votes equal to the proposal. Blind obstructionism >(and blind advocacy) are uneconomical. That's the point of having >more than one vote to potentially spend on an issue, with potentially >more issues than you can vote on all of them. You will have to pick >you battles carefully if you want to avoid being lost in the noise. > Here you risk the media controlling the vote even better. First they push a tearjerker proposal early in the year to swallow up all of the votes, then they ask for special interest legislation to protect their respective monopolies on grounds of ecology, (one paper means more trees, one TV station means clearer communication, etc.) ... >For reciprocity, it's possible to charge off percentages in the >win/lose case to bias the power concentration: if your side wins, it >costs you one less token then you voted, etc.. Again, initial >bylaws are established through constitution provision: "we have the >power that is being shared, therefore, these are the weights". > ... This prompts people to vote with who they think will win as opposed to how they feel. In this case the media shows numerous charts showing a pending landslide in thier favor. What do you know, everyone voted in favor of the media just to recycle votes. ... >Heh. I was thinking more in terms of its value as a cascade trigger >to increasingly complex social organisms in the Internet implementation >space. Representational democracies (republics, really) came about >because of rate limits on communication. The US could not elect a >president by popular vote because there were no methods of verification, >and communication rates were limited by travel time. Therefore, the >US has an Electoral College. But a side effect of this structure is >a bias for bipartite seperation of interests, instead of seperation >into as many interest groups as it takes to do the job of mapping the >interest space. This bias is not removed because the bipartite >interests have (and must continue to have) the power concentration. >This leads to continued "wasted vote syndrome", where people vote >for the lesser of two evils instead of voting their conscience... an >effect of mass psychology. Similar pressures prevent the polling >times from being changed to opening at 8am EST and closing at 8am EST >to prevent early returns from earlier time zones influencing the >outcome of elections before people in later time zones have even voted. >For example, Ross Perot got almost 20% of the vote in the 1992 >election, but 0% of the electors. He would still have lost, given >the actual values. There is actually a case in US history where the >winner of the electoral vote lost the popular vote... the president >was not chosen by the people, but by the electors. ... Actually, our founding fathers thought that the people were morons, a reasonable assumption since news carried so slowly and most people were more worried about how to survive the winter than how to read. ... >Yep. The reason I went weighted, by the way, was the volunteer >nature of the project. In theory, number of vote tokens spent >should be proportional to willingness to actually volunteer. As >you point out, there could be feedback here as well: for instance, >if a proposal passes, if it is completed, the tokens spent on >the vote could be refunded to those who voted for it. If it dies >on the vine, the tokens could be refunded to those who voted >against it. Being right would give you more license to participate, >and being wrong would not, etc.. Again, a matter for the initial >bylaws. ... Not being right, just agreeing with the concensus. Remember that most of the Germans eventually agreed with Hitler, that did not make them right. By the way, the general populus is still mostly morons. Even with a higher literacy rate. Most of them seem to use it to read the National Enquirer and Hollywood based publications.

1 0

No Dimitri??
by drose＠azstarnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

William H. Geiger III wrote: >I have noticed that there has not been any post from Dimitri in a couple of >days. Yup. Ditto Tim May. Fair trade?

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Re: greed and the internet
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Internaut wrote: > > Will you send some references for Internet II and the government hubs? There is a www.internet2.edu -rich

1 0

Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation (fwd)
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:20 PM 1/23/97 +1100, proff(a)suburbia.net wrote: ... >The catch is that positive votes are inherently more valuable than >negative votes, since to obstruct progress requires a number of votes >equal to the outstanding proposals, but to move forward a proposal only >requires a number of votes equal to the proposal. Blind obstructionism >(and blind advocacy) are uneconomical. That's the point of having >more than one vote to potentially spend on an issue, with potentially >more issues than you can vote on all of them. You will have to pick >you battles carefully if you want to avoid being lost in the noise. > Here you risk the media controlling the vote even better. First they push a tearjerker proposal early in the year to swallow up all of the votes, then they ask for special interest legislation to protect their respective monopolies on grounds of ecology, (one paper means more trees, one TV station means clearer communication, etc.) ... >For reciprocity, it's possible to charge off percentages in the >win/lose case to bias the power concentration: if your side wins, it >costs you one less token then you voted, etc.. Again, initial >bylaws are established through constitution provision: "we have the >power that is being shared, therefore, these are the weights". > ... This prompts people to vote with who they think will win as opposed to how they feel. In this case the media shows numerous charts showing a pending landslide in thier favor. What do you know, everyone voted in favor of the media just to recycle votes. ... >Heh. I was thinking more in terms of its value as a cascade trigger >to increasingly complex social organisms in the Internet implementation >space. Representational democracies (republics, really) came about >because of rate limits on communication. The US could not elect a >president by popular vote because there were no methods of verification, >and communication rates were limited by travel time. Therefore, the >US has an Electoral College. But a side effect of this structure is >a bias for bipartite seperation of interests, instead of seperation >into as many interest groups as it takes to do the job of mapping the >interest space. This bias is not removed because the bipartite >interests have (and must continue to have) the power concentration. >This leads to continued "wasted vote syndrome", where people vote >for the lesser of two evils instead of voting their conscience... an >effect of mass psychology. Similar pressures prevent the polling >times from being changed to opening at 8am EST and closing at 8am EST >to prevent early returns from earlier time zones influencing the >outcome of elections before people in later time zones have even voted. >For example, Ross Perot got almost 20% of the vote in the 1992 >election, but 0% of the electors. He would still have lost, given >the actual values. There is actually a case in US history where the >winner of the electoral vote lost the popular vote... the president >was not chosen by the people, but by the electors. ... Actually, our founding fathers thought that the people were morons, a reasonable assumption since news carried so slowly and most people were more worried about how to survive the winter than how to read. ... >Yep. The reason I went weighted, by the way, was the volunteer >nature of the project. In theory, number of vote tokens spent >should be proportional to willingness to actually volunteer. As >you point out, there could be feedback here as well: for instance, >if a proposal passes, if it is completed, the tokens spent on >the vote could be refunded to those who voted for it. If it dies >on the vine, the tokens could be refunded to those who voted >against it. Being right would give you more license to participate, >and being wrong would not, etc.. Again, a matter for the initial >bylaws. ... Not being right, just agreeing with the concensus. Remember that most of the Germans eventually agreed with Hitler, that did not make them right. By the way, the general populus is still mostly morons. Even with a higher literacy rate. Most of them seem to use it to read the National Enquirer and Hollywood based publications.

1 0

A Remarkable Income Opportunity!!
by CV Communications 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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1 0

North American crypto site -- correction
by Michael Paul Johnson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Correction: the "front door" to the North American crypto site is http://www.sni.net/~mpj/usa/getcrypt.htm (the /usa was missing in in an earlier post) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.0 Personal Edition iQEVAgUBMuWW/W+Iqt/O4EnZAQHnSAgAmMNA1UcEsd8wTkLz50ayj16t8SCFnfLs y86ZwxUd0aD7PoyMwGXbr2KkY9E9/I+CQAf9P56DbxDSCWWPzZA0Tydy0Zb+yeH1 +hIoFYMJbWi4nj34B1OtiZeNW9QbWxqyD7CUu8gdaRncxM83tsFY9UAQd8+wyV3w IFyrT6MZj+WLNBh1IhzkKTSdJzNW1mool97hm2KHH/nVuSYtBiVixmeTXkyoB5NU NfesjceO9g0PrVl0jW7NE1kOCJteFI2AAEaAKVYLVYvgvEdGSUkO0DnAXzVFCGKv Eb7/Wk0S7YVEFgVfamxsHvu/PoofVnvXX92UtXPhcHmbobqANA/yfg== =2ZhX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jesus Christ is coming back with power and glory! Are you READY? mailto:mpj@csn.net Bible site-> http://www.sni.net/~mpj Is 40:31 BBS 303-772-1062 PGPprint=3E67A5800DFBD16A 6D52D3A91C074E41

1 0

Privacy-enhancing technologies for the Internet
by David Wagner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ian Goldberg, Eric Brewer, and I wrote a paper giving a high-level introduction to privacy-enhancing technologies for the Internet. Nothing terribly new, but it's about time this stuff made it past oral history and into the literature. To be presented at IEEE COMPCON '97 in February. The paper is available on the web. A html version is at http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/privacy-compcon97-www/privacy-html.html and there's a postscript version at http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/privacy-compcon97.ps Comments, critiques, and discussions are welcome.

1 0

GOO_gol
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Richard Crandall, NeXT scientist, writes eloquently on large numbers in February SciAm. He cites cryptographic strength as one result of research on the gargantuan googol and googolplex. He reviews current work on sieve techniques for factorization -- Quadratic, Number Field, Elliptic Curve Method and others -- as well as advanced algorithms. And exclaims: Blaine Garst, Doug Mitchell, Avadis Tevanian, Jr., and I implemented at NeXT what is one of the strongest -- if not the strongest -- encryption schemes available today, based on Mersenne primes. This patented scheme, termed Fast Elliptic Encryption (FEE), uses the algebra of elliptic curves, and it is very fast. ----- GOO_gol Thanks to PJP for pointing.

1 0

about the e-mails that im recibing
by grupo textil glz ruelas 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dir, cypher im recibing all your e-mails and i was wondering if you can do something abuot becouse to me all of this is pure yonk. so please do something and stop the e-mails im not a cypherpunk and i dont understan nothing you write ok see you.

1 0

Double Your Downline & Triple Your Income With 200 FREE MLM LEADS A Month !!
by Scott Marr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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1 0

THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
by abostick＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In the Jan. 20, 1997, issue of THE NEW YORKER, the "Comment", written by Malcolm Gladwell, makes a powerful arguement about the unintended consequences of the V-Chip, the programmable device to be included in next-generation television sets sold in the US that supposedly will allow parents to control their children's access to sex and violence on TV. Gladwell makes an analogy between V-Chipped TV content and air-conditioned cars in the New York City subway system in summertime: " . . . we need air-conditioners on subway cars because air-conditioners on subway cars have made stations so hot that subway cars need to be air-conditioned." Similarly, he argues, "the V-chip is likely to increase the amount of sex and violence on television, not decrease it" because when viewers can block offensive programming, there is far less pressure on broadcasters and cable operators to avoid offending. This is just the sort of thing that John Young is given to scanning and putting up on his Web site or sending out to people who send him email with FUN_nie subject lines. If I were him, I'd put it up. And, for the benefit of those people who don't think the V-Chip isn't in itself on-topic for cypherpunks, I might point out that Gladwell's argument applies equally well to mail filtering with procmail recipes -- or Sandy's and John's list moderation experiment. If the noise level on the unmoderated list jumps to even higher than we were seeing before the moderation began, that would provide observational support to Gladwell's argument. -- Alan Bostick | To achieve harmony in bad taste is the height mailto:abostick@netcom.com | of elegance. news:alt.grelb | Jean Genet http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~abostick

2 1

Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:59:34 +0100 (MET) > From: Asgaard <asgaard(a)Cor.sos.sll.se> > Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd) > > >The Web does not equal the Internet, straw man argument. > > A semantic comment: > > We here all know that this is right but it's obvious that > the language is sliding towards Internet = Web. Most people Typical modern American attitude, getting it right is too much work so let's lower the benchmark so anyone can be 'right'. You'll be supporting Ebonics next. Blah. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:58:41 -0800 > From: Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd) > > > If the people in those counties want to give away their freedom that > > is their business (and right), not mine, yours, or this countries unless > > there is evidence they are trying to take their views and impose them here. > > Right. And if someone 'chooses' to give their money to a thief with > a gun, then it is not the business of other people, or the police. > I would hate to interfere with someones 'right' to get robbed, > raped, or murdered. This is a perfect example of why we disagree. You feel society has the same responsibilities as an individual, I don't. Countries and societies are a tightly linked concept because man is a social animal. Trying to equate this to an individual who chooses to ignore the moral, ethical, and legal standards of their society is a non-sequiter. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: [Noise] From The Onion
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> SATAN TO REVISE BAR CODE SYSTEM [snip] Not to be outdone, Satan's major competitor, Choronzon, Chief Demonic Officer and only resident of the accursed 10th Aether of the Enochian System, today announced his own plans for a system to label his mortal followers and regulate their business transactions. "Stamping numbers on the foreheads and hands of individuals is primitive technology," Choronzon explained, snapping his barbed tail, and emitting a sulphurous plume. "We are pleased to announce our plans to identify our followers using digital watermarking technology licensed from RSA Data Security, Inc." Implementation of the scheme, which will involve the encoding of a subtle full-body pattern into each individual by surface ablation with high powered eximer lasers, will be managed by Choronzon's Supreme Legate to the Material World, Jim Bidzos. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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GOO_gol
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Richard Crandall, NeXT scientist, writes eloquently on large numbers in February SciAm. He cites cryptographic strength as one result of research on the gargantuan googol and googolplex. He reviews current work on sieve techniques for factorization -- Quadratic, Number Field, Elliptic Curve Method and others -- as well as advanced algorithms. And exclaims: Blaine Garst, Doug Mitchell, Avadis Tevanian, Jr., and I implemented at NeXT what is one of the strongest -- if not the strongest -- encryption schemes available today, based on Mersenne primes. This patented scheme, termed Fast Elliptic Encryption (FEE), uses the algebra of elliptic curves, and it is very fast. ----- GOO_gol Thanks to PJP for pointing.

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:59:34 +0100 (MET) > From: Asgaard <asgaard(a)Cor.sos.sll.se> > Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd) > > >The Web does not equal the Internet, straw man argument. > > A semantic comment: > > We here all know that this is right but it's obvious that > the language is sliding towards Internet = Web. Most people Typical modern American attitude, getting it right is too much work so let's lower the benchmark so anyone can be 'right'. You'll be supporting Ebonics next. Blah. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:58:41 -0800 > From: Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd) > > > If the people in those counties want to give away their freedom that > > is their business (and right), not mine, yours, or this countries unless > > there is evidence they are trying to take their views and impose them here. > > Right. And if someone 'chooses' to give their money to a thief with > a gun, then it is not the business of other people, or the police. > I would hate to interfere with someones 'right' to get robbed, > raped, or murdered. This is a perfect example of why we disagree. You feel society has the same responsibilities as an individual, I don't. Countries and societies are a tightly linked concept because man is a social animal. Trying to equate this to an individual who chooses to ignore the moral, ethical, and legal standards of their society is a non-sequiter. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
by Alan Bostick 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In the Jan. 20, 1997, issue of THE NEW YORKER, the "Comment", written by Malcolm Gladwell, makes a powerful arguement about the unintended consequences of the V-Chip, the programmable device to be included in next-generation television sets sold in the US that supposedly will allow parents to control their children's access to sex and violence on TV. Gladwell makes an analogy between V-Chipped TV content and air-conditioned cars in the New York City subway system in summertime: " . . . we need air-conditioners on subway cars because air-conditioners on subway cars have made stations so hot that subway cars need to be air-conditioned." Similarly, he argues, "the V-chip is likely to increase the amount of sex and violence on television, not decrease it" because when viewers can block offensive programming, there is far less pressure on broadcasters and cable operators to avoid offending. This is just the sort of thing that John Young is given to scanning and putting up on his Web site or sending out to people who send him email with FUN_nie subject lines. If I were him, I'd put it up. And, for the benefit of those people who don't think the V-Chip isn't in itself on-topic for cypherpunks, I might point out that Gladwell's argument applies equally well to mail filtering with procmail recipes -- or Sandy's and John's list moderation experiment. If the noise level on the unmoderated list jumps to even higher than we were seeing before the moderation began, that would provide observational support to Gladwell's argument. -- Alan Bostick | To achieve harmony in bad taste is the height mailto:abostick@netcom.com | of elegance. news:alt.grelb | Jean Genet http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~abostick

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Re: fingerd
by Steven L Baur 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

snow writes: >> > Couple of things you can do: >> > 2. Install a more secure "fingerd" such that it only >> > allows "finger `userid(a)node.domain`" instead of >> > "finger `(a)node.domain`". > cfingerd can be gotten from: cfingerd is not a safe program. It must run as root, and has some big problems. Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:34:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Janos Farkas <chexum(a)shadow.banki.hu> To: Administrador da Rede <admrede(a)opensite.com.br> cc: linux-security(a)tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Subject: Re: Finger Doubt Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.960918181033.2523A-100000(a)shadow.banki.hu> Howdy people! On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Administrador da Rede wrote: > I use the newest version of cfinger, setted to not allow general finger, just > specific ones. Does anyone knows how this person did that ? I hope I can > find out, otherwise, bye bye finger service. Badly. I have sent the author a letter, but never got any reply back (it's 3 months later now!), so I just take the opportunity to warn the public against its use. Excerpts from the source (1.2.3, older versions have been a bit more directly broken, now it has root privs only at the moments it shouldn't have.) "This daemon must be run as root!" [And unfortunately, does..] ... unlink ("/tmp/fslist"); ... sprintf(st, "%s | tail +2 >> /tmp/fslist", prog_config.finger_program); ... system(st); A similarly terrible one some lines later: system("cat /tmp/fslist | sort > /tmp/fslist.sort"); As it stands, it can allow any local user to destroy any file on the system, including partition tables on disks. Please someone correct me if I am wrong, I tried this with cfingerd-1.2.2 and it allowed me to do bad things. I was a bit disappointed by the lack of any reply from the author, so I think I am now justified to tell that if anyone installed cfingerd (about 1.1 or later) on his system, disable it IMMEDIATELY, until at least the author clarifies this bug in a new version. The current version is BAD. However if you just need a finger daemon, you may take a look at xfingerd, at ftp://ftp.banki.hu:/pub/xfingerd/xfingerd-0.1.tar.gz which is the one I wrote when I got desperate about cfingerd. (If you take a look at its date stamp, you can see that cfingerd is long broken..) I too can't garantee that it's good for you, but it at least doesn't require to be run as root, which is why I started being against cfingerd. I hope this note finds everyone concerned. Janos -- steve(a)miranova.com baur Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message. Real men aren't afraid to use chains on icy roads.

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RE: Just another government fuckover: New crypto regulations
by Brett Carswell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>-----Original Message----- >From: Toto [SMTP:toto@sk.sympatico.ca] >Sent: Friday, January 24, 1997 12:29 AM >To: Attila T. Hun >Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Subject: Re: Just another government fuckover: New crypto regulations > >Attila T. Hun wrote: > >> free speech, which is what we are talking about. supposedly >> absolute freedom of speech in America was in the Articles of >> Confederation and was a major point of the Declaration of >> Independence. free speach was an "intention" of the Magna Carta. > >> ::> books are an intellectual 'solution' to the problem. the real >> ::>problem is the hardware. in order to negate governments and their >> ::>virtually stated intentions of blocking our inalienable freedoms, >> ::>particularly freedom of speach, we must be able to distribute >> ::>universal crypto worldwide, and be able to improve it as the shadow >> ::>governments of the various spook shows improve their ability to >> ::>break our code. > >Dear Mr. Hun, > I see that your post was expunged from the cypherpunks-politically- >correct-outgoing list. > I am assuming that it was as a result of linking crypto to free >speech. >Perhaps you need to fall more into line with the New List Order. > >Toto > >More likely 'grep dimitri '

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If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before....
by DataETRsch＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

{If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before, we're extremely sorry.} {UDCM's web site may have been under construction during the time you visited.} {UDCM's web site has finished undergoing its changes and will operate correctly.} {UDCM V2.0 has been extensively modified from its previous variation.} {Digital signaturing and public key cryptosystem capabilities have been added.} {UDCM's DS and PKCS techniques do NOT make use of conventional PN factoring.} {UDCM's source code is currently unavailable. PLEASE DO NOT REQUEST IT.} {UDCM's on-line help documentation has also been extensively modified.} {This advertisement has also been modified.} Hello, Greetings! I am Jeremy K. Yu-Ramos, president of DataET Research, Data Engineering Technologies. I am sending you this message to let you know that DataET Research has recently initiated the distribution of UDCM, Universal Data Cryptography Module. UDCM implements a revolutionarily new, extremely advanced and sophisticated, digital data encryption algorithm named IMDMP, Integrated Mathematical Data Manipulation and Positioning. UDCM (the IMDMP algorithm)... o Is a royalty-free Windows DLL module featuring advanced cryptography. o Contains more than 150 procedures and functions. o Is a very cost-effective size of only 60 kilobytes. o Implements the IMDMP encryption algorithm. o Allows encryption keys as large as 2048 bits. o Includes 18 sub-algorithms. o Processes all forms of binary and ASCII files. o Allows multiple encryption layer levels. o Has absolutely no back-doors or magical keys. o Includes time and date locking features. o Includes file specific unique encryption features. o Includes file authentication guard features. o Includes digital signaturing capabilities. o Implements the public key cryptosystem method of security. o Includes data importance and sensitivity stamping features. UDCM, being a Windows DLL module, can be accessed through programs developed with popular application and database programming languages and environments such as: C, C++, Visual Basic, PowerBuilder, Delphi, OOP Pascal, Turbo Pascal, dBase, Paradox, Access, Sybase, Oracle, etc. DataET Research has released a shareware version of UDCM named UDCM V2.0. To download UDCM V2.0 for free, please go to: http://members.aol.com/dataetrsch/udcm.html. I hope you will consider applying UDCM in the software you develop. Thank-you very much for your time. Sincerely, Jeremy K.Yu-Ramos President DataET Research Data Engineering Technologies

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4th ACM Conference on Computer and Communications Security
by Mike Reiter 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** EARLY REGISTRATION DISCOUNT ENDS JANUARY 31 *** Fourth ACM Conference on Computer and Communications Security (Preliminary Technical Program) Zurich, Switzerland April 1-4, 1997 Sponsored by ACM SIGSAC For more information, including registration and hotel information, see: http://www.zurich.ibm.ch/pub/Other/ACMsec/index.html ================ TUESDAY, APRIL 1 ================ 4 half-day tutorials in two parallel tracks: Theory Track Practice Track Morning Cryptography CERT and Practical Network Security Jim Massey, Ueli Maurer Tom Longstaff (ETH Zurich) (Software Engineering Institute) lunch Afternoon Internet Security Info-Wars Refik Molva Paul Karger (Eurecom) (IBM TJ Watson) ================== WEDNESDAY, APRIL 2 ================== 09:00-09:30 Introduction and Opening Comments Richard Graveman (Bellcore) Phil Janson (IBM Zurich Lab) Li Gong (JavaSoft) Clifford Neuman (Univ. of Southern California) 09:30-10:30 Invited talk 1: To Be Announced 10:30-11:00 Coffee Break 11:00-12:00 Session 1: Fair Exchange of Information Chair: Philippe Janson (IBM Zurich Lab) * Fair Exchange with a Semi-Trusted Third Party Matthew Franklin, Mike Reiter (AT&T Research) * Optimistic Protocols for Fair Exchange N. Asokan, Matthias Schunter, Michael Waidner (IBM Zurich Lab and Univ. Dortmund) 12:00-14:00 Lunch 14:00-15:30 Session 2: Language and System Security Chair: Michael Waidner (IBM Zurich Lab) * Static Typing with Dynamic Linking Drew Dean (Princeton University) * Secure Digital Names Scott Stornetta, Stuart Haber (Surety Technologies) * A Calculus for Cryptographic Protocols: The Spi Calculus Martin Abadi, Andrew D. Gordon (DEC SRC and Cambridge) 15:30-16:00 Coffee Break 16:00-17:30 Panel 1: Programming Languages as a Basis for Security Chair: Drew Dean (Princeton) Panelists: To Be Announced Welcome Cocktail ================= THURSDAY, APRIL 3 ================= 09:00-10:30 Session 3: Authentication Chair: Ravi Sandhu (George Mason Univ.) * Authentication via Keystroke Dynamics Fabian Monrose, Avi Rubin (New York Univ. and Bellcore) * Path Independence for Authentication in Large-Scale Systems Mike Reiter, Stuart Stubblebine (AT&T Research) * Proactive Password Checking with Decision Trees Francesco Bergadano, Bruno Crispo, Giancarlo Ruffo (Univ. of Turin) 10:30-11:00 Coffee Break 11:00-12:00 Invited talk 2: To Be Announced 12:00-14:00 Lunch 14:00-15:30 Session 4: Signatures and Escrow Chair: Martin Abadi (DEC SRC) * Verifiable Partial Key Escrow Mihir Bellare, Shafi Goldwasser (UC San Diego and MIT) * New Blind Signatures Equivalent to Factorisation David Pointcheval, Jacques Stern (ENS/DMI, France) * Proactive Public-Key and Signature Schemes Markus Jakobsson, Stanislaw Jarecki, Amir Herzberg, Hugo Krawczyk, Moti Yung (UC San Diego, MIT, IBM Haifa Lab, IBM TJ Watson, and Bankers Trust) 15:30-16:00 Coffee Break 16:00-17:30 Panel 2: Persistance and Longevity of Digital Signatures Chair: Gene Tsudik (USC/ISI) Panelists: To Be Announced Banquet Dinner =============== FRIDAY, APRIL 4 =============== 09:00-10:30 Session 5: Commerce and Commercial Security Chair: Jacques Stern (ENS/DMI, France) * A New On-Line Cash Check Scheme Robert H. Deng, Yongfei Han, Albert B. Jeng, Teow-Hin Ngair (National University of Singapore) * Conditional Purchase Orders John Kelsey, Bruce Schneier (Counterpane Systems) * The Specification and Implementation of 'Commercial' Security Requirements including Dynamic Segregation of Duties Simon Foley (University College, Cork, Ireland) 10:30-11:00 Coffee Break 11:00-12:30 Session 6: Cryptography Chair: Mike Reiter (AT&T Research) * On the Importance of Securing Your Bins: The Garbage-Man-in-the-Middle Attack Marc Joye, Jean-Jacques Quisquater (Univ. Louvain) * Improved Security Bounds for Pseudorandom Permutations Jacques Patarin (Bull) * Asymmetric Fingerprinting for Larger Collusions Birgit Pfitzmann, Michael Waidner (Univ. Hildesheim and IBM Zurich Lab) 12:30 Conference Adjourns

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Re: Commerce Sec. Hearings and Encryption
by Bill Campbell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca wrote: > Bill Campbell wrote: > > > > I have been watching the confirmation hearings for William Daley, > > and I was amazed at the number of references in the questioning > > to encryption. I have been watching confirmation hearings for a long > > time and have never noticed this much attention being placed on such > > a (formerly?) obscure topic. > > It certainly looks like someone is gearing up for a battle in regard > to cryto. > I find it very interesting that there would be a grand battle over > 'exporting' what is already freely available overseas (and always > will be, despite the export laws). This "freely available overseas" concept is a bit overstated. France and other countries are beginning to come down hard on encryption. (Also note the post from the guy in New Zealand on the hassles exporting from his country.) The US now has a "Crypto Ambassador" roaming the world, and I *don't* think he is encouraging an open common encryption standard. > I suppose that a cynic might > be led to believe that perhaps the anti-export champions' agenda > might be to make more convenient for the average joe to just > give in and accept weak, government approved crypto. Cynic or realist, you make the call. <G> The average Joe doesn't even know *why* he needs encryption...at least not yet. =Bill=

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Re: No Dimitri??
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

drose(a)azstarnet.com writes: > William H. Geiger III wrote: > > >I have noticed that there has not been any post from Dimitri in a couple of > >days. > > Yup. Ditto Tim May. Fair trade? No. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"abostick(a)netcom.com" "Alan Bostick" 23-JAN-1997 23:09:54.72 >In the Jan. 20, 1997, issue of THE NEW YORKER, the "Comment", written by >Malcolm Gladwell, makes a powerful arguement about the unintended >consequences of the V-Chip, the programmable device to be included in >next-generation television sets sold in the US that supposedly will >allow parents to control their children's access to sex and violence on >TV. >Gladwell makes an analogy between V-Chipped TV content and >air-conditioned cars in the New York City subway system in summertime: >" . . . we need air-conditioners on subway cars because air-conditioners >on subway cars have made stations so hot that subway cars need to be >air-conditioned." Similarly, he argues, "the V-chip is likely to >increase the amount of sex and violence on television, not decrease it" >because when viewers can block offensive programming, there is far less >pressure on broadcasters and cable operators to avoid offending. Personally, I'd view this as a positive development. The puritanical types will be busily still protesting it, but without so many parents who (falsely) believe their children will be harmed by exposure to sex, thus dividing their efforts. Normally one would think that advertisers et al might give in to a small number... but advertisers particularly suceptible to this won't be sponsoring anything but G-rated shows anyway. (Of course, I view the V-chip itself as a bad thing, but if it has an outcome opposite in at least _some_ ways to the one intended by the neo-puritans, I can see the silver lining.) >And, for the benefit of those people who don't think the V-Chip isn't in >itself on-topic for cypherpunks, I might point out that Gladwell's >argument applies equally well to mail filtering with procmail recipes -- >or Sandy's and John's list moderation experiment. If the noise level on >the unmoderated list jumps to even higher than we were seeing before >the moderation began, that would provide observational support to >Gladwell's argument. An interesting question... although I'd point out that the degree of social pressure against spamming et al appears to be ineffective. The herd-like public (referring to the parents with their foolish fears and anyone else brainwashed into believing the puritans/fundamentalists) can put pressure on with their buying patterns... as yet such a market system is lacking in mailing lists (except for putting people on filter lists, which probably exacerbates the problem). In other words, there is no particular reason for the spammers et al to desist even if people _are_ receiving their email. -Allen

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RE: No Dimitri??
by Brett Carswell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>drose(a)azstarnet.com writes: > >> William H. Geiger III wrote: >> >> >I have noticed that there has not been any post from Dimitri in a couple >>of >> >days. >> >> Yup. Ditto Tim May. Fair trade? > >It's all part of Dr Dimitri's social experiment. Create two personalities who >appear to hate each other but are the same person. Watch out for the upcoming >series.... > Dimitri L[abia] Vulis styles his facial hair to look more like pubic hair. o o --/-- <~\ Dimitri L[abia] Vulis __\ _/\ \ / > >

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