December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RATINGS: say what?
by Panzer Boy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ok a few things. To help me, and possibly others, understand this. (Replace the word "YOU", with your name if you think you understand the rating system...) You want two lists: (of sorts) 1. Current list, as is, anything in -> everyone out. 2. Rated List, anything in -> filtering/rating -> out. Now my question is, who's going to spend the time dealing with this. And how are you going to disallow stuffing the ballot, as we all know about spoofing. And who's actually going to spend the time wading through all the Cypherpunk mail, and rating it all? Are you planning on letter the general readers of "list 1" rate articles, and then people who subscribe to "list 2" will get anything that passes a certain "rating level" (or other criteria)? Are we looking for something that you run the articles through, and it will spit out a "reading level" like most PC word-processors. Then you could ask for just the articles that have <15 misspellings, and a reading level above 11th grade... Pardon me if this isn't quite what some people seem to have in mind, but this just looks like electronic version of filling out forms in triplicate. -Matt (panzer(a)dhp.com) "That which can never be enforced should not be prohibited."

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Millions Said Paid to CIA Spy
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

AP 02/23 00:31 EST Millions Said Paid To CIA Spy Copyright 1994. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. WASHINGTON (AP) -- The KGB develops a mole in the top ranks of the CIA, state secrets are spilled, double agents are fingered, million- dollar payoffs are made, and FBI agents skulk through a suspect's household trash to find clues. And that's just the opening chapter in one of the biggest espionage cases in CIA history. The Justice Department on Tuesday charged Aldrich Hazen Ames and his wife, Rosario, with conspiracy to commit espionage. Ames, a 31- year CIA veteran and former senior Soviet counterintelligence officer, is accused of selling U.S. national security secrets to Moscow for eight years starting in 1985. A federal magistrate ordered the Ameses held without bail until a hearing on Friday. If convicted on the conspiracy charge, they could face life in prison. Neither of them spoke to reporters when they left the magistrate's office. President Clinton called the case a "very serious" breach of U.S. national security. Sources familiar with Ames' CIA career said he compromised more than one Soviet double agent, including a KGB counterintelligence investigations officer -- code named GTPROLOGUE -- who was feeding information to the CIA. Ames had access to vast amounts of classified information at the CIA. And because during at least part of his long CIA career he specialized in recruiting Soviet officials and intelligence officers as spies, he would have been able to disclose to the Soviets the identities of CIA agents inside the Soviet Union. The Justice Department wrote in an affidavit released Tuesday that Ames, 52, began spying for the Soviets in 1985 at a time when he was the chief of the Soviet Counterintelligence Branch in the CIA's Soviet-East European Division. He is accused of continuing his espionage until his arrest on Monday. Ames' wife, Rosario, 41, is a part-time student at Georgetown University. The affidavit said she was a paid informant for the CIA from about April-December 1983 while serving as a cultural attache in Mexico City. Ames met her while working for the CIA in Mexico City from 1981-83. They were married in 1985. They have a young son. William Rhoads, who lives across the street from the Ames home in a well-to-do section of suburban Arlington, Va., told reporters Tuesday that they seemed an unexceptional couple who appeared to have income beyond Ames' government job. Indeed, the Ameses spent money at an extraordinary clip, yet they apparently raised few if any suspicions by paying cash for the $540,000 Arlington home in 1989 when he was transferred to Washington from a CIA post in Rome. His CIA job paid $69,000 a year. Court documents said they also spent $99,000 on improvements to the house through July 1993 and $7,000 on furniture in the first four months they owned the house. They also spent $25,000 toward the purchase of a Jaguar automobile in January 1992, $19,500 on a new 1989 Honda, $165,000 on stocks and securities from 1985-93, and put an average of more than $500 a month on credit cards over that eight-year period. The court documents also said that from 1986 through 1993, the Ameses transferred by wire -- mostly from Credit Suisse bank accounts in Switzerland -- more than $1 million to their Dominion Bank of Virginia accounts. They deposited an additional $487,100 in cash in various local accounts from 1985-93. "This investigation has determined that none of this $1,538,685, consisting of the wire and cash deposits, was derived from any salary checks of the CIA payable to Aldrich Ames," the affidavit said. The couple also own two condominium apartments and a farm in Colombia, the records said, and large sums of money were sent to Colombia by Ames to maintain those holdings. The Colombia connection figures prominently in the Ames case. Besides the fact that Rosario Ames was born in Colombia and was working in the Colombian Embassy when she met Aldrich Ames, he also apparently met Soviet contacts there at least once. The affidavit said U.S. investigators believe Ames received a cash payment from the Russian foreign intelligence service during a meeting in Bogota in November 1993.

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Disinformation
by fhalper＠pilot.njin.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Miller wrote: The idea of a disinformation campaign to oppose Clipper really bothers me. Isn't the true about Clipper damning enough? Lying about Clipper seems like moral and ethical surrender. I agree that lying can produce favorable results, but I'm not willing to stoop to that level. If the anti-Clipper people (and I count myself one of them) can't defeat Clipper with the truth, this tells me the world is so fucked up it deserves Clipper and Capstone in every machine on. I feel that in the present situation with the Clipper chip, the ends justifies t he means. If Clipper is widely implemented it will affect the development of th e "Information Super Highway" for years to come. What Jim Miller sayts about ly ing about Clipper is true. But, what if that is the only way to open peoples eyes? Any means neccesary is the ONLY way to a victory in this case. you can't truly believe that the government is inly going to implement Clipper on a "voluntary" basis? Reuben Halper -Anger is a gift- Rage against the machine/Freedom P.S. Did anyone read the article in Covert action a couple months back on Clipper, it was very well done.

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Re: REAL WORLD ENCRYPTION
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There are several factors that are probably leading people to ask about how digicash is valued. WHile digicash is basically a transaction technology, there are different categories of transactions it can support. One way for it to acquire value is the method that checks and bank notes use - somebody deposits real money in a bank, and writes requests to move it around. Since you're talkign about starting a bank, the obvious question is whether the accounts will be in dollars, yen, gold/silver, rubles, etc.; while much of the business may be in dollars or Swiss francs, supporting more than one currency increases your workload a good bit, and each additional currency adds a certain amount of work. The other way digicash is likely to acquire value is for it to represent requests for certain amounts of service, e.g. digital postage stamps, highway tolls, etc, where it's basically service-provider scrip. For some systems, this may be free and used just for resource allocation, or testing, or whatever. Bill

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Digsig in Germany for RX?
by Alan (Miburi-san) Wexelblat 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[I snarfed this from Phil Agre's RRE list; I know nothing else about this... --AW] Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 15:33:43 +0000 From: G.Joly(a)cs.ucl.ac.uk (Gordon Joly) Subject: MICE Seminar for February 22 at 14:00 GMT. Newsgroups: dec.mail.lists.rem-conf You are invited to the next MICE International Seminar which will take place next week. Please limit traffic for two hours from 14:00 GMT on Tuesday, February 22. This seminar will be transmitted on the usual multicast addresses (please see the sd entry), and will be advertised in sd from Tuesday morning. Further information of this and future seminars is kept in the URL http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/seminars.html Bruno Struif (GMD) speaking from Darmstadt, Germany will give a presentation on: "The Privacy Enhanced Electronic Prescription". Abstract -------- In Germany, more than 500 millions prescriptions are issued per year. Normally, the patient receives the prescription in the doctor's practice and takes it to a pharmacy where he gets his medicaments. From the pharmacy, the prescription is physically transported to a pharmacy computer center where it will be processed in different ways. Finally the patient health insurance gets this prescription with listings containing the result of the processing in the pharmacy computer center. Since the prescription is a paper document, the processing is difficult, time-consuming and cost-intensive. The introduction of the health insurance card in Germany will improve the technological environment in the doctor's practices.The prescriptions will be produced in the future by using the health insurance card, a personal computer and a printer. The model presented shows that the electronic presentation of the prescription produced in the doctor's PC can be maintained so that the difficult and expensive way of processing paper prescriptions in the pharmacy, the pharmacy's computer center and finally by the health insurance can be avoided. The solution described and already implemented at GMD is - to sign the electronic prescription by the doctor with its physician smartcard capable to compute digital signatures - to write the electronic prescription in the patient's smartcard - to prove the authorization of a pharmacist for the access to the patient's smartcard by using a pharmacist smartcard - to electronically transmit the electronic prescription together with pharmacy information (name of the pharmacy, prescription cost etc) to the pharmacy computer center or the health insurance computing center where it can be automatically processed. The patient gets therefore two representation forms of the prescription, the electronic form and the paper form. The paper form is still necessary in the relationship doctor/patient/pharmacist, since - the patient has a right to look on the issued prescription, - in case of malfunction of the patient's smartcard in the pharmacy the delivery of the medicaments has still to be possible and - the assembly of the medicaments is easier with a paper form in the hand. In the new release of the electronic prescription model a step in the direction of data privacy has been made. The personal data of the patient and the doctor are replaced by digital pseudonyms in a way that the pharmacy computing center and the health insurance can verify only certain characteristics, e.g. that the prescription has been issued by a registered doctor and that the related patient is a member of the respective health insurance. In special cases, a re-identification of the doctor or the patient is possible by using re-identification smartcards. Gordon Joly Phone +44 71 380 7934 FAX +44 71 387 1397 Email: G.Joly(a)cs.ucl.ac.uk UUCP: ...!{uunet,uknet}!ucl-cs!G.Joly Comp Sci, University College, London, Gower Street, LONDON WC1E 6BT WWW WWW WWW http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/gjoly.html WWW WWW WWW

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RE: the black budget
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The statement someone earlier made (I don't remember by who) that "The black budget is taxation without representation.", could be restated to indicate that it is taxation without *true* representation, for all the reasons that many subscribers to this list would already be aware of (if there was true representation, there would be some rather anarchistic congressmen & IRS agents in office). Which reminds me - "In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream". (In the space between some people's ears, that is.) In the best circumstances, open & honest speaking would be more profitably addressed to an audience possessed of an active intelligence that is interested in knowing & comprehending the actual & its consequences. ....................... I didn't see, in Tim's reply to my question about the spreading of "disinformation", where what he relates represents that (perhaps because I'm not very knowedgable regarding some of the 'facts' mentioned); it actually seems to me to be an unfortunate label to apply to all of these efforts, since they are offered in a concern for, and in consideration of, the consequences to everyone's personal interest - privacy. Whether the picture is "blown up" to appear to be worse than it looks, presently, seems moot, since it should be easy to imagine what could happen in the future even if these invasive plans are not yet in effect; i.e., just what such a scenario purports for the situation here in the US and everywhere else. The future truth could be more fearsome than any present, alarming fictionalization. (But, then, I'm prepared to imagine.) Blanc

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BIX musings on Zimmermann
by peace＠BIX.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Reposted from bix.com ========================== security/encryption #695, from gnikoloff, 2722 chars, Tue Feb 22 19:24:18 1994 This is a comment to message 694. -------------------------- I think many of us want to know anything that happens. (About the Zimmermann Grand Jury). If Phil Zimmermann is indicted for what he did, then I can't see how the US can differ from any third-world police state. I can remember reading about how 'Fusion' magazine, which is a publication dealing with Nuclear Fusion, was prosecuted for allegedly revealing secrets behind the construction of thermonuclear weapons (amazingly, one of the key techniques was the use of Styrofoam to build a stable plasma during detonation). They pointed out that the details had been published 30 years ago in the Encyclopedia Americana. I believe the case was dropped. Phil didn't invent RSA encryption. He just popularised it by providing a great product, professionally designed and written, easy to use. To attempt to suppress this technology now would be as futile as suppressing details on the construction of nuclear weapons. Enough information exists in the public domain for countries such as North Korea to build a bomb. You can't, as one science-fiction writer said in another context, "put the mushroom cloud back in the shiny uranium sphere". Actually, now I think about that, it was Isaac Asimov in his story about an invention which allowed people to see back into time. Suppressed by the Government, it was independently re-invented by a professor who only got curious about the topic when he realised it was classified. The catch; when does time begin? one second ago?, one nano-second ago?. With the invention, privacy became a thing of the past; you could go anywhere, see anything. Its kind of a neat twist on this issue. The government would have us believe encryption is a *bad thing* because bad guys will use it to hide their activities. But,like the time-travel machine, there are good and bad points. Who do you believe?. Myself, I want to use encryption such as PGP for good and legitimate reasons. For example, if I want to send confidential information over the Internet, which is obviously not a secure channel. It is patently ridiculous to suggest that I should not be permitted to do this. But the arguments have been done to death. Like abortion, it boils down to the right of the individual versus the rights of the State (and by implication, society as a whole). I vote for the right to privacy. In fact, I had thought it enshrined in the Constitution. It is a basic tenet of life in a democratic society. If you're reading this, Phil, there are many people backing you 100%. As for the rest of us, make a stand. To the owners of BIX, if you permit these sorts of discussions on your system, you should have the courage to post PGP. There are other US sites on the Internet still holding it. Stand up and be counted!. They can't sue you all.

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Re: RATINGS: Subject tags
by Alexander Chislenko 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For quite a while now, I have been advocating a rating system based on *calculating correlations* of people's interests in each topic domain. This allows to: - give personalized ratings to each user; - filter out any number of "evil tentacles" recommending you junk; - suggest incentives to each user to rate articles; - introduce digicash payments for all messages and ratings; - implicitly use quality criteria that are difficult to formalize; - find like-minded people, even if you never post anything In short, it works like this: you read stuff, if you like it, you pay for it as much as you want; what you pay is considered your rating of the article; the System calculates correlations of your ratings with everybody else's; you can select articles that people with your interests in the given area liked most; so it makes sense for you to pay and be sincere - otherwise the system may not work for you, and you will read too much junk. Also, people whose ratings helped you choose it, can get some share of your payment - another incentive to read early and carefully, and be fair (you can actually earn credits as a critic). Authors can establish minimal payments for their texts, but it will be not their advertizing headers, but the opinions of like-minded with *you* people that will help you choose texts. I have a more or less detailed development proposal for such a system and would be happy to share it if anybody is interested. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Alexander Chislenko | sasha(a)cs.umb.edu | Cambridge, MA | (617) 864-3382 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RATINGS: an alternative request-based system?
by Seth Morris 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have been thinking about the proposed ratings system, and thought long and hard about what *I* would want in ratings I receive, and how much I would like to rate articles with ease. The model I arrived at was substantively different, and may reduce overall bandwidth while allowing greater control of my own personal mbox. What I would see is a list which only sent the traffic to a subscriber on _request_ instead of at once (perhaps more digest-oriented). I would send a message to cypherpunks-rated(a)whatever.domain (which could be an independant ratings group subscribed to receive and hold the "normal" 'punks list, and perhaps other related lists) with a command to get the mail I had not yet received. I would prefer that the list handle a database of when I last requested mail, and perhaps had a command to just tell me how MUCH mail was waiting (in both messages and Kb). Then, the messges would arrive, along with any ratings. Perhaps some services could maintain a ratings profile for me, of the signators I trusted to rate and the topics/ratings I prefer (one especial benefit for me would be to raise my filtering level at the transmission end on those days when the volume had increased, as launchpad has _serious_ disk problems, and I'm telnetted in at 2400 bps anyway). The messages would arrive and I could reply to cypherpunks-rated with MY ratings/comments (whichI would like to see batched and transmitted to the author, so comments on saliency/style/flamage would be sent only to her/him and not clutter up anyone's mailbox) to the server to be added to the list. This way, new messages are always sent (although it would be easy to change that, preferably in my profile) to be rated, and old messges have longer accumulated ratings. Actually, this runs more like a mail-based archive than a list, but the end result is similar. Perhaps a couple of days hacking at some archive manager (like the ones at most listserv's... does majordomo have archiving?) could set up a running prototype. It seems that this meets most of the requirements: multiple ratings, multiple ratings services, easily alterable filtering profiles, easily extended to handle keywords (many archivers already o this, of course). Specifics are debatable: the source filtering seems controversial (although I don't know why, unless people are worried about having the list manager know their preferences, in which case they can get everything and its ratings and handle them locally), so maybe the server shouldn't keep persistent profiles, but should receive a request with a profile for that specific request. Perhaps I send a "request on" message, and receive a message containing information on the queue: how many new messages (in however much time, so I know), how many Kb, how many rated messages on which common topics (in any given two-day period, the number of topics stays pretty low), etc, and I reply with numbers ie: >Per: your "request on" message of 940401:1935GMT > Last request 940401:1209GMT >Messges: 12 >Kbytes: 65 >Remember: ar is "Average Rating" of raters accepted in your > "request on" message: Raters id's follow: > exclude: BIFF.DORK(a)BITNET.SHOUT > exclude: ld*@lance* > accept: master.rater(a)text.analysis.god.com > >Keyword: Remailers... 3 messages rated, 1 message unrated, ar:8.2 send all Remailers >Keyword: Libertarian... 2 messages rated, 0 messages unrated, ar:0.6 send above 2.0 >Keyword: PGPTools... 5 messages rated, 1 message unrated, ar:5.2 send above 7.0 send below 1.0 #for chuckle factor > Your messages comments: > msg id: xxxxxx > "Excellent, it changed my life" Rating: 1.1 --SomeOne > "Rehash of old crap" Rating 7.6 --SomeOne Else > msg id: yyyyyy > <no comments> Hmmm... a bit too wordy, but you get the idea. (Get the lucifer? Get the skipjack? (Remember: Ounce for ounce...) ) This would also make receiving multiple lists easier for those of us with no filters (Where does one get pc-elm???????), as we could receive one list, process it, and then get another list, allowing us to not get them mixed up. Seth Morris (seth.morris(a)launchpad.unc.edu)

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Education needed, but what specifics?
by Seth Morris 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I think we all agree that the public needs education on crypto and crypto politics. What specific issues need to be addressed? For some time now, I have been kicking around ideas for games related to crypto, and I have decided that it may be an excellent education/propoganda tool. What I'm thinking of is a BBS door that incorporates encryption ideas (probably without using any actual excryption, to make sysops more comfortable with it -- I'm co-sysop of a local BBS and my "real" sysop refuses to allow crypto software on it, for the same reason he's reluctant to house an adult area, no matter how much he personally would like both (although, admittedly, he's primarily interested in the adult area)). Originally I had thought of a game where encryption was used to transmit messages to units (a space-war-game, perhaps?), and capturing and decrypting your opponents messages was paramount. Ultimately, as your "cryptotech level" increased, you'd get stronger cyphers and develope public-key tech, etc., but this seemed pretty limited in its educational potential and pretty derivative of existing games. My current idea is something more based on the net. Players take the role of corporations pet punks, or freelancers, and use encryption to cover their butts while following traffic analysis trails of opponents (digital) money, setting up services for profit (and perhaps to follow the traffic opponents pass through them... leading to more encryption, etc), leading to ratings services and digital reputations, leading to denial-of-service attacks, etc. This could get exciting to play, and would lead to a cypherpunks-agreeable position in the game, perhaps facilitating "market penetration" of EFF, CPSR, and other cypherpunks-friendly literature. Perhaps the game should make frequent mention of PGP, RSA, Chaum and other sources in the literature (a door with a bibliography!)? What do y'all think of the idea? I think gaming is a wonderful way to spread ideas, and have been looking for a way to use it for some time. What elements of cypherpunks' philosophy and methods should/could be incorporated? I think emphasising the cyBerpunk-like aspects of the game (spoofing to get information, copyiong mail logs to follow message traffic, etc) would make the game more popular, and while it might hurt the game's reputation as a propoganda tool (wow-- a game that's a manual on attacking services on the net... how is that good for people?), it should increase the player's awareness of the _need_ for signatures, reputations, untraceablility, etc. Besides, who wouldn't want to infiltrate Denning Associates Corporation and Stern & Light Pharmaceuticals to funnel money and information to Mayday Publishing or somesuch? Seth Morris (seth.morris(a)launchpad.unc.edu) PS- I'm still having problems with PGP Tools 1.0c. The ptd.exe locks in fifo_destroy when trying to find a private key on the ring. Any suggestions? My first applet to test the library (an MD5 hasher for files on the command line) works fine, though.

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Re: Education needed, but what specifics?
by Seth Morris 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Seth Morris writes : > > > > For some time now, I have been kicking around ideas for games related to > > crypto, and I have decided that it may be an excellent education/propoganda > > tool. > > Interesting.. Interesting.. > > > > > Perhaps the game should make frequent mention of PGP, RSA, Chaum and > > other sources in the literature (a door with a bibliography!)? > > Getting better... > > > > Whoa... is this thing supposed to be a *game*, or a training school for > net.guerilla.warfare? I may be a minority of one, but I'm not going to Point well made, and I did allude to the possibility that some would see it as that (although I think I was unclear about specifics, I had nothing actually _training_ like in mind certainly!). This is to be a game, primary emphasis on fun. I find that I learn best when I'm having fun, and my experience with rpg's and wargames has been that I think about the implications and inspirations for the games I play. (Has anyone else read the story about the USG using games to manipulate the voters? Where they make a voting game to increase turnout in a manner similar to Monopoly's supposed influence on people during the depression?) > risk *anything* by trying to hack mail systems, trace their logs, or > spoof. Quite frankly, I can't be bothered - apart from a sort of 'James > Bond' thrill, that sort of thing has no appeal whatsoever. Hopefully, I'm > just missing the point here, but I wonder how smart it is to advocate > 'hacking net services' in a game that is supposed to introduce people to Understyood, and agreed. All simulation, not like reality. I haven't ever commited such silliness myself (part of why I'm asking for ideas), and I see no reason for anyone else to. > strong crypto. Although it might not be very thrilling, my hope is that > Mom and Pop Citizen will one day use PGP (or <insert-favorite-crypto-here>) > on their routine e-mail - they may never know or care about telnetting to > port Q-47, and I don't think that matters much. Be careful with the game; > don't overemphasize the cloak-and-dagger to the point that Average Citizen > gets spooked off strong crypto. I'm hoping that the game would emphasize that anyone could _need_ strong crypto, and anonymity, and digital cash, etc. Also that understanding your network makes you and everyone else safer. > Don't take this as flame-bait, please; this just posting just hit me at > the right time to provoke a philosophical outburst. While it is fun for > the cypherpunks to skulk around and spoof each other, we must not lose > sight of a large segment of our intended audience - namely, those people > who might hop on the strong crypto bandwagon so long as the 'skullduggery' > factor does not get too high. I think there is a large market for crypto > services that is completely detached from the 'full blown' cypherpunk > agenda of anonymity, remailers, untraceability, etc. Have you played the game "Neuromancer" based on Wm Gibson's novel? My thought all the while reading the book was that it's make a better game than novel, and I was right. The game focuses on finding and infiltrating systems on the net with emphasis on tracking financial transactions and reaching secure(?) meeting places with other net underworld figures. The game was immensely popular, and could have used more "puzzle-like" elements, more data presented to the player, and an interactive option. That is more like what I'm proposing. The players I know of BBS door games in Tucson, Arizona (where I'm located physically), would like to see more control than would make the game "friendly." Understanding that their sysadmin can follow the sendmail logs might encourage users to use crypto on their mail, and use remailers (even non-anonymous remailers, just designed to take the tracking away from their own sysadmin and put it with one they have CHOSEN to trust). I know a lolt of sysops, and you'd be surprised how much email is read. Also, if more people are thinking about didgital cash, anonymity, encryption, and the lack of proivacy they have (and how public their lives may become if governments/corporations/"unfriendlies" of all types were the ones controlling information entirely vis a vis clipper, storuies of sysops reading mail, stories of corporations reading mail, stories of operators listening in on phone calls, ...), the more solutions will emerge, and the more prepared the people already using computers to exchange ideas will be when confronted with the options that take away privacy as opposed to those which enhance it. Perhaps I should send you a plan of what I'm thinking? Storyboards? I do **NOT** want to be seen as suggetsing/writing a manual on net.warfare, but the cyberpunk novels are already pretty closeto to what I'm thinking of and without presenting real dangers, I don't know how to suggest people use real solutions. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. (Glad I didn't mention the proto idea of having users use hunter-killer viruses... that'd get me in trouble!) I appreciate criticism. Disagreement isn't flamage. Indignation isn't necessarily ad hominem. Please help me prepare a concept that won't cause these reactions in the non cypherpunks-friendly communities. Ideally, the abstract for the gam,e shouldn't raise too many eyebrows in comp.virus, talk.politics.crypto, or anywhere else. It certainly should be something sysops would be willing to use. Seth Morris (Seth.Morris(a)LaUNChpad.unc.edu)

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Re: Disinformation (or the Truth?) About Clipper
by geoffw＠nexsys.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Phil Karn says: > > >The idea of a disinformation campaign to oppose Clipper really bothers me. > > >Isn't the true about Clipper damning enough? Lying about Clipper seems like > > > > I agree completely. Telling the truth is all that's necessary. You know, I'm a person that rarely lies, I don't lie to aquaintances let alone friends, but in this regard I think I have to side with Tim. We don't have the time or money to flood the media with the truth, this thing has to be STOPPED by any means necessary, The truth will surface one way or the other, It will surface when it is too late and we are all in jail for using illegal crypto, or it will surface when Clipper is finally derailed and the nation/industrialized world is free to be able to have the truth known. "THINK, It ain't illegal... yet." - George Clinton

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Re: Disinformation
by smb＠research.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

How will the development of the Clipper hamper the info-supe-hi? And what is the info-super-hiway anyway, eh? I'll leave out the buzzwords -- but Clipper will definitely hamper the deployment of good networks. Encryption is a vital tool for network management and authentication, even apart from privacy considerations. But Clipper is of necessity hardware-only, which means that most current platforms will never support it, and few future ones will actually have it, whether they're capable of it or not. And on many important boxes -- routers, for example -- just leaving room for Clipper on the boards will be expensive. We have the following dilemma: DES isn't exportable, Clipper isn't suitable, and lots of foreign governments won't allow it in anyway, I suspect. How is one supposed to do authentication on a global Internet? --Steve Bellovin

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Bet it's not encrypted...
by Alan (Miburi-san) Wexelblat 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[The following was snipped from EDUPAGE, the online summary service. Anyone have access to more information? --AW] AND OPTICAL FINGERPRINTS. The National Registry uses an optical scanning technology to create and compare digital maps of the finger surface. The map can be converted to a modified bar code for inclusion on a wallet ID card. The information can also be encoded on circuitry inside a credit or debit card. (Tampa Tribune 2/20/94 B&F1)

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Re: Mac encryption
by Ron Davis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> What is everyones opinion of the best encryption software forthe Mac? >> Frederic Halper >> fhalper(a)pilot.njin.net > >MacPGP, available by anonymous ftp from the soda.berkeley.edu site, is >the only one I know of using public key methods, and hence the only >one of real interest to Cypherpunks. I find this to be a strange statement. Do we have no interest in non-public key methods? Seems the Cypherpunks should have an interest in all forms of crypto. Most users don't currently use public key becuase they just want to keep thier boss from sitting down at thier computer and reading the resumes they wrote for other companies. This can be accomplished with symetrical crypto just as well, if not faster than PGP. >Commerical products (like the various "Kent Marsh" products) are >mostly DES-or-weaker and are oriented toward local file protection. >(MacPGP will do that, too, of course). Cryptomatic does come with Triple DES which is still a very strong method. Unfortunatly MacPGP's biggest draw back is that its interface is poor and it is hard to use. There is also MacRIPEM which is written by Raymond Lau, author of Stuffit, and is much easier to use, but weaker than PGP (but legal). > >About six or seven years ago I bought "Sentinel," from SuperMac, and >used it a few times. The problems were obvious: lack of other users >(so my friends couldn't receive or send), and the symmetric cipher >nature (we had to share keys for a message). Public key systems based >on PGP have solved both problems (though problems of convenience >remain). > Can't stop without mentioning that my company make a product called Citadel which does DES encryption. ___________________________________________________________________________ "I want to know God's thoughts...the rest are details." -- Albert Einstein _________________________________________ Ron Davis rondavis(a)datawatch.com Datawatch, Research Triangle Park, NC (919)549-0711

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Re: Mac encryption
by dmandl＠lehman.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: Ron Davis <rondavis(a)datawatch.com> > > >> What is everyones opinion of the best encryption software forthe Mac? > >> Frederic Halper > >> fhalper(a)pilot.njin.net > > > >MacPGP, available by anonymous ftp from the soda.berkeley.edu site, is > >the only one I know of using public key methods, and hence the only > >one of real interest to Cypherpunks. > > I find this to be a strange statement. Do we have no interest > in non-public key methods? Seems the Cypherpunks should have > an interest in all forms of crypto. Most users don't currently > use public key becuase they just want to keep thier boss from > sitting down at thier computer and reading the resumes they wrote > for other companies. This can be accomplished with symetrical > crypto just as well, if not faster than PGP. Cypherpunks do have an interest in all forms of crypto, but there are very good reasons why public key is more desirable than symmetric for "our purposes." This is at the very root of the crypto revolution and the cypherpunk ethos. Have you done the basic reading? (That's a serious question, not sarcasm.) PGP _does_ symmetric crypto. > >Commerical products (like the various "Kent Marsh" products) are > >mostly DES-or-weaker and are oriented toward local file protection. > >(MacPGP will do that, too, of course). > > Cryptomatic does come with Triple DES which is still a very > strong method. And MacPGP comes with IDEA, which is at least as strong (as far as we know). And of course, it does all the public-key encryption and key-management as well. A pretty incredible package, considering its size and cost. > Unfortunatly MacPGP's biggest draw back is that its interface > is poor and it is hard to use. I disagree. > Can't stop without mentioning that my company make a product > called Citadel which does DES encryption. Hmmm... --Dave.

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Another Brick in the Wall (fwd)
by Mike Godwin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message:

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Re: Mac encryption
by Ron Davis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Cypherpunks do have an interest in all forms of crypto, but there are >very good reasons why public key is more desirable than symmetric for "our >purposes." This is at the very root of the crypto revolution and the >cypherpunk ethos. Have you done the basic reading? (That's a serious >question, not sarcasm.) Depends on what the required reading list for this group is. I thought that our purposes were to promote the privacy of individuals through the use of cryptography. This can be done in the contexts I talked about with symmetric as well as PK crypto. Maybe I have the wrong idea about "our purposes", please correct me if I'm wrong. >PGP _does_ symmetric crypto. >And MacPGP comes with IDEA, which is at least as strong (as far as we know). Rumor has it that Kent Marsh is working on an IDEA module for thier products as well. >And of course, it does all the public-key encryption and key-management as >well. A pretty incredible package, considering its size and cost. You're right its free. If something is free you can't really complain about it. If it does anything its a bargan. > >> Unfortunatly MacPGP's biggest draw back is that its interface >> is poor and it is hard to use. > >I disagree. I can live with disagreement. Of course hopefully you would admit that Cryptomactics ability to select a file in the finder, pull down a menu and Boom encrypted file is easier than PGP's methods. ___________________________________________________________________________ "I want to know God's thoughts...the rest are details." -- Albert Einstein _________________________________________ Ron Davis rondavis(a)datawatch.com Datawatch, Research Triangle Park, NC (919)549-0711

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http:--cnnfn.com-hotstories-washun-wires-9707-24-fcc_wg-
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Help for your desk so that it is no longer flooded with calls with the new HP Vectra PCs. [INLINE] Washington Unwrapped graphic New FCC chief to be named Kennard expected to get post, but choice has irritated Sen. Hollings July 24, 1997: 6:49 p.m. ET [LINK] [INLINE] Hundt sees book in future - June 2, 1997 FCC Chairman steps down - May 27, 1997 [INLINE] Federal Communications Commission Infoseek search __________ ____ ____ WASHINGTON (CNNfn) - President Clinton has settled on William Kennard to be his choice to become the next chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, well-placed Administration officials tell CNN. [INLINE] Kennard, the FCC's current general counsel, would succeed Reed Hundt, if confirmed by the Senate. [INLINE] The sources say the president could make the announcement as early as Friday, though the official announcement could slip a bit. [INLINE] Kennard was favored for the job by Vice President Al Gore, the White House official who makes most of the final decisions regarding FCC appointments, because of Gore's long time work on telecommunications issues. But another telecommunications policy maker in Washington is furious at the White House for the Kennard selection. [INLINE] Sen. Ernest Hollings, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Commerce Committee, had pushed his former chief of staff on the committee, Ralph Everett, for the job. Everett, the first African American to ever serve as chief of staff to any Senate committee, had the endorsement of 16 Senators and was considered a leading candidate for the job. [INLINE] Not only is Hollings angry that his candidate didn't get the nod, but sources say he is also miffed about how the White House handled the process of making the final decision. White House Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles called Hollings, Senate sources say, "to apologize for how this was handled." [INLINE] One source close to Hollings told CNN Financial News, "Don't expect quick work in the Senate on this nominee." [INLINE] The president also is expected to nominate Justice Department attorney Michael Powell to fill a Republican vacancy on the five-member FCC, according to the sources. [INLINE] And Gloria Tristani, a phone regulator from New Mexico, is expected to be Clinton's choice to fill a Democratic seat. [INLINE] Those two nominations, however, aren't expected to be announced at the same time as the Kennard pick. Clinton already had nominated Kennard for the FCC. But the president has yet to name his choice for chairman of the agency following Hundt's announcement in May that he planned to leave. [INLINE] Clinton already has nominated Harold Furchtgott-Roth, chief economist for the House Commerce Committee, to fill a second Republican vacancy. The FCC oversees the phone, broadcast, wireless, satellite and cable-television industries. Link to top home | washington unwrapped | hot stories | contents | search | stock quotes | help Copyright © 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

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ironic
by Carl Ellison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It's a bit ironic that the Administration is crying foul so loudly over the Soviet/Russian spy in the CIA -- as if this was unfair -- while they're openly proclaiming the right to spy on citizens and foreigners via Clipper. (IMHO) - Carl Carl M. Ellison cme(a)sw.stratus.com RIPEM MD5OfPublicKey: 39D9860686A9F075A9A83D49589C677A PGP 2.4 Key fingerprint = E0 41 4C 79 B5 AF 36 75 02 17 BC 1A 57 38 64 78

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Re: Disinformation (or the truth?) about clipper
by Andy Lowton 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Given that this is a public forum, is it a good idea to announce that you are going to lie about Clipper? Next time Tim May (for example) is on a radio prog talking about Clipper, he is wide open to the question 'Why should we believe you? Your group advocates spreading disinformation doesn't it?' I agree that this should be fought, but I would be cautious about announcing tactics like this to the world. Andy

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Re: Mac encryption
by dmandl＠lehman.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: Ron Davis <rondavis(a)datawatch.com> > > > dmandl(a)panix.com said: > > > >Cypherpunks do have an interest in all forms of crypto, but there are > >very good reasons why public key is more desirable than symmetric for "our > >purposes." This is at the very root of the crypto revolution and the > >cypherpunk ethos. Have you done the basic reading? (That's a serious > >question, not sarcasm.) > > Depends on what the required reading list for this group is. > I thought that our purposes were to promote the privacy of > individuals through the use of cryptography. This can be done > in the contexts I talked about with symmetric as well as PK crypto. The invention (discovery?) of public-key crypto changed the world, and makes practical everyday use of crypto infinitely easier. It also makes the kinds of specific things cypherpunks are interested in much more practical (or POSSIBLE). If you correspond with hundreds of people on a regular basis, including people you don't know and people you may send something to once and never deal with again, it is impractical to say the least to have to generate and exchange keys. That's the basic argument. Why was public key crypto invented at all? Why are people interested in using it? Practically, it's really fundamentally different from symmetric crypto, which is of very limited use in the situation we're all in now (anonymous communication, the net, quick hit-and-run dissemination of information, digital signatures, etc., etc.). PGP also has the "web of trust" structure built in. This is worlds away from basic symmetric crypto. This is really basic stuff, so I'm hesitant to discuss it on the list. > Maybe I have the wrong idea about "our purposes", please correct me > if I'm wrong. If you're relatively new to the list, try to get your hands on some of the basic cypherpunk material, like tcmay's Crypto-Anarchy manifesto, the cypherpunk articles in Wired or Whole Earth Review, etc. There are many different views represented on the list, but I think we all agree on the significance and importance of pk crypto. Symmetric is fine for hiding things from your boss. PK is intended for different purposes. > >And of course, it does all the public-key encryption and key-management as > >well. A pretty incredible package, considering its size and cost. > > You're right its free. If something is free you can't really complain > about it. If it does anything its a bargan. I didn't mean to insult PGP by claiming that it's worth the price ($0). It's actually worth much more. I was just saying that for free it's an astounding deal. --Dave.

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Clipper
by tomh＠bambi.ccs.fau.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If the govt and all its agencies used Clipper for all their communications, they would be vulnerable to attack from foreign govts that have bought the keys from spys. Despite being in escrow, I can't imagine they are really as secure as everyone seems to think. If random govt agencies can get the keys for legal wiretaps, spys will also be able to do so. Does Clinton have the right to listen in on NSA communication? If he tried he might find that they aren't using Clipper internally (or that they keys aren't in the proper escrow locations).

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Re: Mac encryption
by Ron Davis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> From: Ron Davis <rondavis(a)datawatch.com> >The invention (discovery?) of public-key crypto changed the world, and >makes practical everyday use of crypto infinitely easier. It also makes >the kinds of specific things cypherpunks are interested in much more >practical (or POSSIBLE). If you correspond with hundreds of people on a >regular basis, including people you don't know and people you may send >something to once and never deal with again, it is impractical to say the >least to have to generate and exchange keys. That's the basic argument. >Why was public key crypto invented at all? Why are people interested in >using it? Practically, it's really fundamentally different from symmetric >crypto, which is of very limited use in the situation we're all in now >(anonymous communication, the net, quick hit-and-run dissemination of >information, digital signatures, etc., etc.). PGP also has the "web of >trust" structure built in. This is worlds away from basic symmetric >crypto. > >This is really basic stuff, so I'm hesitant to discuss it on the list. I wasn't saying that PK wasn't important, or the most important. I agree it is a great thing. I was just saying that I thought cypherpunks was also about non-PK crypto. I also ventured to think it wasn't just about PGP, but all crypto used for purposes of insuring individual freedom and privacy. >> Maybe I have the wrong idea about "our purposes", please correct me >> if I'm wrong. > >If you're relatively new to the list, try to get your hands on some of the >basic cypherpunk material, like tcmay's Crypto-Anarchy manifesto, the >cypherpunk articles in Wired or Whole Earth Review, etc. There are many >different views represented on the list, but I think we all agree on the >significance and importance of pk crypto. I read the Wired article. I've also read the FAQ. Missed May's manifesto is it available via ftp? > >Symmetric is fine for hiding things from your boss. PK is intended for >different purposes. But isn't hiding things from your boss important in the cypherpunks worldview, even if people choose not to use PGP? Seems to me that the fact is many, if not most, people will not use PGP because of is outlaw status. Many of us are attracted to it because of that, but many people aren't. We can still advocate methods that people are comforatable with that will further our goals. If I'm wrong about the very basics of the list, then I guess this discussion is good, because I've been around for a couple of months at least and this is the idea I got. ___________________________________________________________________________ "I want to know God's thoughts...the rest are details." -- Albert Einstein _________________________________________ Ron Davis rondavis(a)datawatch.com Datawatch, Research Triangle Park, NC (919)549-0711

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Disinformation
by fhalper＠pilot.njin.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Net is growing rapidly. As it grows it will become more signifigant in our world(transaction of digital cash, etc.) Security will become more of a neccesi ty(lets face it MOST people don't need encryption) If Clipper is widely impleme nted (be it voluntary or forced) people will be looking over their shoulders and righ tfully so. Also, i feel that the structure of the Internet is likely to change( It's present structure is not a good base to build on) when the cahnge occurs do n't you think Clipper is going to become the "standard." Reuben Halper -anger is a gift- rage against the machine/freedom

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