December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: overview.htm (fwd)
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >>>Jim Choate wrote: >>>>>Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >>>>>>>irrelevant(a)nowhere.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>Dale Thorn wrote: It can be said 100,000 times, but it still comes out the same: Just as in "The only cure for bad speech is more speech", "the only cure for 'list-focus-drift' is more on-focus postings".

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RE: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Toto Obese-rvation? I hope you are not assuming that I am obese, just because I am responding to a post originating from 'fatmans.demon.co.uk.' I would hate to become relegated to the upcoming cypherpunks-fatpeople list because of assumptions of this nature. ................................................. Well, Toto, if you don't like this obeservation, you can always unsudribe from "unmoderated" and subcrive to "expurgated". There's also a rumor about a new "exfoliated" list for Snakes of Medusa starting up.... (I swear, I Toto is a tentacle of TCM) .. Blanc

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Re: Cellular location...
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:54 PM 1/25/97 -0500, Mark M. wrote: >> Companies working on the technology to track cellular phone calls >> [...] >I wonder how expensive it would be to put a GPS receiver in a cell phone and >have the option to transmit the coordinates on a separate channel. Pretty expensive - GPS receivers currently cost ~$200, which is more than the average cell phone, and needs a whole separate set of radio-receiver hardware, so you'd about double the size of your phone. On the other hand, the cell sites already know which you're close to, and can easily enough track when you've made transitions between cells. So they can get a good start on location by processing information that the phone companies need to have anyway. Would they save any of this for later? Of course not :-) >"location escrow" to make it easier for the feds to track drug dealers. And everybody else.... # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Toto's database
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto writes: >My database seems to indicate a direct co-relation between the >number of postings criticizing moderation and the number of >UCE/Spam postings showing up on the list. An interesting assertion. Is your database available for others to draw their own conclusions from? I'd appreciate seeing at least a first-level abstraction of the data, e.g., the number of messages posted in opposition to moderation and the number of "spam" messages posted, listed by date. The possibility that other factors caused the correlation you mention suggests that other categorizations (e.g., total # of messages, # of messages which are not spam nor related to moderation, and # of pro-moderation messages) would also be useful, although I notice you do not mention those statistics. Of course, correlation alone doesn't tell us much. If it really exists, it suggests that the two phenomena observed are related in some way, but it doesn't tell us the nature or the cause of the relationship. (All serial killers drink water; but are all water-drinkers serial killers? Does drinking water cause a person to become a serial killer?) One explanation would be the link you suggested, that a moderation proponent is sending (or causing to be sent) the spams as a way to make moderation seem more attractive, or to detract attention from the anti-moderation arguments. (If that really worked - e.g., if spam had the effect of reducing the effectiveness of certain arguments, or of being harmfully "diversionary" - wouldn't that suggest that moderation was, in fact, necessary or at least useful? Hmm.) Another explanation would be that a moderation opponent is sending the spams as a way to punish the proponents of moderation. It's further conceivable that you don't have a big enough data set to draw meaningful conclusions from. The moderation decision, implementation, and associated arguing have taken place within three weeks (John Gilmore's original announcement was sent Sunday 1/5/97); it's hard to see how you're going to be able to distinguish signal from noise in such a small data set. I think this is especially true given the relatively inexact nature of the "spam" weapon; as far as I can tell, apart from Dmitri's ASCII art/cocksucker messages, the spams we've received have been from real live spammers (not pissed-off listmembers) who harvested the "cypherpunks(a)toad.com" address from messages sent to Usenet as spam bait. Inherent in the "spam bait" attack is a lack of precise control over when messages will be sent, or how many will be sent; so I'm curious about the reliability of a correlation you've found between the actions of distributed third parties (who are pursuing their own, cypherpunk-ignorant, goals) and messages sent to the list. Yet another explanation might identify external factors (like the recent storms in the American midwest) which caused people to send more messages independent of their ideology or content. My ISP, io.com, recorded much heavier mail flow recently (to the point that it created problems for delivery) during the storm; speculation is that people were stuck at home for several days and turned to the Net to amuse themselves. Such an event might cause otherwise independent-minded groups (spammers and moderation opponents) to act in similar ways, like sending more messages than usual. Of course, one would expect to see a rise in all message traffic, were this the case. Perhaps you'll be good enough to make your database available so that we may each draw our own conclusions. I'm looking forward to hearing more about how you derived this correlation. (If you have trouble finding a server from which to make the data available, just say so; if nobody else has a handy server, I'll add it to my web page.) >Has anyone actually 'seen' John Gilmore, lately? He was at C2Net's party last Friday night (1/24), being interviewed by some folks from a Japanese TV program. -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. |

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RE: Fighting the cybercensor
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto and Jim Choate were having a little disagreement about the rights of nations to maintain the boundaries of ignorance around their "citizenry", and Jim said that no one outside a nation's boundaries should feel moved to interfere with the program: > 'We' shouldn't, it is their own country and it is up to their populace to > stop it. Do you really want Singapore or China having a say in how we run > our web? I certainly don't, and won't support any move to force any > particular view on them. ............................................................ Normally, I would agree that people who choose to live within a certain locale and choose the kind of government that they will live with and the kind of policies that they will accept as impositions upon their lives, should be allowed to "enjoy the fruits of their labors". But on further examination of the situation in 'foreign' countries, these things must be realized: . Individuals do not agree with each other 100% . Individuals living within the boundaries of a nation will not agree with each other 100% about the kind of government they should have . Many of the individuals living within the boundaries of *any* nation do not have 100% control over which policies, or the quality of them, they will have to live under . It is not uncommon for "leaders" of nations to take advantage of their position to benefit more from the contributions of their citizenry than vice versa (the citizenry benefitting from their leadership) . It is not uncommon for there to be proportionately more people in favor of living in a state of dependence than not; and it is not uncommon for those who favor dependence to favor proposals which seem to put them on the receiving end of "benefits" (versus being contributors); and it is not uncommon for these "benefits" to be derived at the expense of such virtues as freedom and liberty . Many individuals reside within a nation not because they favor its po litics, but because they feel more comfortable among their own kind than with strangers elsewhere - for example, Chinese who have lived in China all their lives (and whose ancestral roots are there) will wish to stay there and do what they can within the boundaries of that nation, rather than for instance moving to Canada, when the going gets rough. Given these things, nevertheless it is true that the internet , among other events in our "modern" world, is opening up avenues towards advantages and benefits hitherto difficult to comeby. As many of you are aware, many people are beginning to identify with a global network of friends and co-workers according to their particular (or peculiar) interests, rather than with the "Old Order". It is becoming moot what nationality or what government or what company one works for - the loyalties of the past are being tested and re-configured in the minds of those who now do business and communicate and share things and develop friendships, acquaintances, and empathies, on the net. So to speak of "having a say" on how Singapore or China or any other nation-state runs "our web" or vice versa "us" having a say on how they run "their web" is becoming irrelevant. Economics will be determining how the web is run, and by whom. The identity of those who use it will be not "those who are citizens of Singapore", but: "my friend who lives in Singapore and is having a hard time accessing a file that I wanted him/her to have". Affiliations will be seen differently by those who connect in cyberspace, and if certain of one's cyberspace friends are having problems - if, say, a Hitler were to suddenly rise up in their midst - then the netizens could send their emergency alert out to anyone and everyone on the net about a problem brewing which perhaps someone could help them deal with, according to their ability to do so. It is true that individuals still live within the physical boundaries of "nations" which have formed in the past, and they still hold the concepts of these boundaries in their minds and they still identify closely with these, and they still vote problems upon themselves. But it is becoming an anachronism, and it is becoming inaccurate to speak of "what Singaporians want for the internet". This phrase would describe many of those who live in Singapore, but not all of them. It is more accurate to speak of what "individuals who use the internet" want, of what "individuals who want to communicate" want, of what "individuals who want to connect with others" want. The identifications of self as a citizen who must be identified with the vote of a majority, and consequently suffer the perception of oneself as someone who "voted to accept restrictions of the net, therefore should not be helped against it", is becoming irrelevant. When a distress call goes out from someone anywhere on the planet, the assistance and relief may come from anyone anywhere who chooses to rally others and provide assistance. It is not the traditional "we" against "them", and it is not the "citizens of the US" helping those who "voted themselves a Hitler into power" or "voted themselves into restrictions against free speech". It is "those of us who appreciate the liberty in communications technology" against "those who would take it away". .. Blanc

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RE: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Toto Obese-rvation? I hope you are not assuming that I am obese, just because I am responding to a post originating from 'fatmans.demon.co.uk.' I would hate to become relegated to the upcoming cypherpunks-fatpeople list because of assumptions of this nature. ................................................. Well, Toto, if you don't like this obeservation, you can always unsudribe from "unmoderated" and subcrive to "expurgated". (There's also a rumor about a new "exfoliated" list for Snakes of Medusa starting up....) .. Blanc

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Re: Encrypting ZIP disks
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lucky Green wrote: | At 11:40 AM 1/25/97 -0500, Adam Shostack wrote: | > | >Paul Kocher announced that he has cracked it, and can recover data | >quickly. He is not publishing details of the break. | | Why? Probably to make money. Paul does do this for a living. Even if he hasn't cracked it, the ZIP protection mechanism is propreitary and exportable. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:11 AM 1/22/97 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >> Singapore and China are blocking certain net groups. I think >> this is a bad thing, question is how can we stop it? > >'We' shouldn't, it is their own country and it is up to their populace to >stop it. Do you really want Singapore or China having a say in how we run >our web? I certainly don't, and won't support any move to force any Nonsense - the net doesn't "belong" to "Singapore or China" - it's made up of the activies and property of many different people. If some of those people don't like what other people are saying, or reading, they've got no right to limit it, just because they've got enough guns to call themselves "the government". If they don't like something, they don't have to read it, or they can send out their own counter-propaganda. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Re: Cellular location...
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 09:27 PM 1/25/97 -0800, Steve Schear wrote: >>> Presented in a "this will help 911" context. Still disconcerting. >>> >>> [...] >>> Companies working on the technology to track cellular phone calls >>> have been given additional incentive with a Federal Communications >>> Commission order that all cell phone service companies have location >>> programs in place by the year 2001. >>> [...] >> > >Looks like this might create an opportunity for 'anonymous' cellular rentals. > >--Steve Anonymous cellular accounts have been available in NYC for a year or so. See any copy of the Post or the Daily News for the ads. A similar service just started in Mexico City according to the NYT. You call the company and order the phone for circa $249.00 C.O.D. This includes one hour of calls. Subsequent hours are purchased for $36. Not cheap but anonymous. No roaming either. DCF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQCVAgUBMuuHDIVO4r4sgSPhAQFKjwQAoYOpb6t/L3/ah6yN7bMnwlTXX34q7yLC ECW8R7QzZsvZoHd9LxwN38DrvHsCmyot+xWwF/Drixupen8ydJz9yXcmSpddeYM6 r8mmvQcA27YmNID6LF4iAh1Z7gqYu1iUyIaxEE6WhPN1cAEobJn9x3rFVV1dpouC Y88L4vFRo+I= =acJo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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PGPmail for Windows, Version 4.5
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Anyone running Windows 95 who hasn't grabbed the beta of PGPmail 4.5 from http://www.pgp.com/ is crazy. It works seamlessly with Netscape 3.0 and Eudora Pro 3.0. The 30-day demo of Eudora Pro is at: http://www.eudora.com/prodemo/. It is easy to use. I just installed it and pointed it at my old pubring.pgp and secring.pgp files and went to work. All my messages have been signed since then and some have been encrypted. The installation program found my existing copies of Eudora and Netscape and installed the PGP add in without any fuss. My only problem was finding the controls for the add in which (in the case of Eudora) consist of buttons to encrypt, sign, bring up the program, insert a copy of your key, and actually modify the message. The controls only appear on the message create, and message read windows. Easy to use. DCF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQCVAgUBMuuKMYVO4r4sgSPhAQFfzAP+LkDjOecHxz0iEVVggLLABxAOE9tVyOLl AIkKlagFqK+lBboo7fETCZtSpmDHcNsJG6Et6BWO5aYf7Artw+jXj+734c+w4RWj zcj6+351LUqT60TmcukH02p2MT0sd8w1dAnhD8+o1E13G5h5N1CF/p6KQjmHOiQ6 9T1ehMax0jE= =E8Pu -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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RE: Fighting the cybercensor
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

blanc <blancw(a)cnw.com> writes: (a bunch of sensible stuff) > . Many individuals reside within a nation not because they favor its po > litics, but because they feel more comfortable among their own kind than > with strangers elsewhere - for example, Chinese who have lived in China all > their lives (and whose ancestral roots are there) will wish to stay there > and do what they can within the boundaries of that nation, rather than for > instance moving to Canada, when the going gets rough. Also many "un-freer" societies restrict the ability to emigrate, and many "freer" society restrict the ability to immigrate. It's not so easy for someone living in Communist China to pick up his ass and go someplace else, like Taiwan. A large number of people got shot while trying to cross the Berlin Wall. Plus if they do get out, they may have difficulty going to countries like U.S. or Canada. (In case anyone missed it, the U.S. is much more selective about who it lets in as immigrants than it was earlier in the century.) > It is true that individuals still live within the physical boundaries of > "nations" which have formed in the past, and they still hold the concepts > of these boundaries in their minds and they still identify closely with > these, and they still vote problems upon themselves. But it is becoming > an anachronism, and it is becoming inaccurate to speak of "what > Singaporians want for the internet". This phrase would describe many of > those who live in Singapore, but not all of them. It is more accurate to > speak of what "individuals who use the internet" want, of what > "individuals who want to communicate" want, of what "individuals who want > to connect with others" want. > > The identifications of self as a citizen who must be identified with the > vote of a majority, and consequently suffer the perception of oneself as > someone who "voted to accept restrictions of the net, therefore should not > be helped against it", is becoming irrelevant. When a distress call goes > out from someone anywhere on the planet, the assistance and relief may come > from anyone anywhere who chooses to rally others and provide assistance. > > It is not the traditional "we" against "them", and it is not the "citizens > of the US" helping those who "voted themselves a Hitler into power" or > "voted themselves into restrictions against free speech". It is "those of > us who appreciate the liberty in communications technology" against "those > who would take it away". However U.S.G. is able to say that people of Iraq or Lybia or Cuba should not be permitted on the 'net. It also bombs Iraq and murders their civilians in retaliation for something their governments supposedly did. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, Toto wrote: > I think that anyone who thinks that moderation is, or could ever be, > anything other than a dance into the arms of the establishment, is > already crazy. Apparently, Toto does not know very much about John or me or our relationships with the "Establishment." It is who are using a intellectually dishonest smokescreen of "freedom of speech" in order to disrupt and hamper the work of Cypherpunks who are dancing into the arms of the "Establishment." > For the record, I don't think that either John or Sandy is crazy. > I think that they have their own pre-established goals which others > on the cypherpunks list are not privy to. I can't speak for John, but my goals have been stated too often and too completely for anyone not to know them. I want us all to have privacy. The Cypherpunks list was created to facilitate discussion--and ultimately action by those who were inclined and able to do something to further that goal via the use of cryptographic and other technologies. I believe that childish name-calling and personal attacks interferes with rational discourse and a spirit of common purpose and community. It is obvious to me that those who are waving the bloody flag of "censorship" are doing so for either of two reasons. The ones to whom I am the most sympathetic are those who simply do not have a clear and coherent understanding of rights in an anarchistic, volunteeristic society. The ones for whom I have no sympathy are those whose obvious goal is disruption of the Cypherpunks list and who are hiding behind a phoney interpretation of "free speech." I think both of these groups are intellectually dishonest in the extreme when it comes to telling others how this list should be run. I doubt any of them would permit the sort of disruptive behavior that goes on here to go unchallenged in salons they sponsor in their own homes or on Net lists that they themselves maintain. This is a voluntary list folks. We tried incivility and that did not work. Right now we are experimenting with reasoned discourse in an atmosphere of interpersonal respect and good will. If most list members like the change, it will continue. If not, then we can go back to the swill or perhaps try something else. In the meantime, get over it. If you really like flames and spam, show John and me how it really should be done. Start another list. Of course squating and claim jumping appeal to the lazy a lot more than homesteading. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: DPT Win 3.xx, 95, NT ENCRYPTION program
by Igor Chudov ＠ home 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In article <5cd7ki$52b(a)news.xs4all.nl> bernard(a)xs4all.nl Crypto wrote: Newsgroups: comp.security.misc * DPT Win 3.xx, 95, NT ENCRYPTION program * * DPT16 or DPT32 total encryption Windows program. * * Encrypt fast, Files, Dir, Floppys, e-mail, text or Messages .... * * Key up to 30 Kb, Hide your encrypted data's in a picture file. * Direct mail encryption, Visit the Data Privacy Tools home page. * * at; http://www.xs4all.nl/~bernard Bernard, thanks for an interesting post. I am Cc-ing your message to Cypherpunks mailing list which is ostensibly dedicated to discussions of cryptography. As follows from info on your home page, you do use simple XOR to encrypt your data. It was not clear to me though, how do you generate the keys to encrypt the data. I am sure that many readers of cypherpunks mailing list will be interested, so please send a copy of your reply to cypherpunks(a)toad.com. igor

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 03:28:53 -0800 > From: Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd) > > At 12:11 AM 1/22/97 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > >> Singapore and China are blocking certain net groups. I think > >> this is a bad thing, question is how can we stop it? > > > >'We' shouldn't, it is their own country and it is up to their populace to > >stop it. Do you really want Singapore or China having a say in how we run > >our web? I certainly don't, and won't support any move to force any > > Nonsense - the net doesn't "belong" to "Singapore or China" - The part of it that comes out of their pocketbook does. Just like the part of 'the net' that I pay for belongs to me. The net is a bunch of computers, running software, hooked together over cables and other links. Each and EVERY ONE of these require installation, upkeep, repair, and utility support. This costs money. He who pays the money owns the net, everybody else is along for the ride. If we take your argument to its logical conclusion then once a box goes on the net it belongs to nobody/everybody. Clearly utter nonsense. If you really and truly believe that the net belongs to everyone and nobody has a right to limit or otherwise control the hardware and software along with the associated comm links they own and pay for then you obviously don't understand what is going on. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com ps I also support France's current attempt at forcing the Georgia university web site on French soil to use French.

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Internet, Countries, Nationalism, etc.
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, blanc has put forth an interesting assertion relating to nationalism and the Internet. If he is correct then we will have a one world government (ie technocracy) whether we like it or not. I agree with this assertion, which is why I hold that it is a waste of bandwidth trying to 'control' the Internet or access thereof by citizens of such countries as Singapore. Let them cut themselves off, it does us all a service, and themselves a dis-service. If the citizens have as much dissatisfaction as some members claim they will take care of it themselves. When they get hungry for ideas, materials, and food they will change. You can take a horse to water, you can't make him drink. You can drown him however. Then you are walking, not riding. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Internet, Countries, Nationalism, etc.
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, blanc has put forth an interesting assertion relating to nationalism and the Internet. If he is correct then we will have a one world government (ie technocracy) whether we like it or not. I agree with this assertion, which is why I hold that it is a waste of bandwidth trying to 'control' the Internet or access thereof by citizens of such countries as Singapore. Let them cut themselves off, it does us all a service, and themselves a dis-service. If the citizens have as much dissatisfaction as some members claim they will take care of it themselves. When they get hungry for ideas, materials, and food they will change. You can take a horse to water, you can't make him drink. You can drown him however. Then you are walking, not riding. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Toto's database
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > Toto writes: > >Has anyone actually 'seen' John Gilmore, lately? > He was at C2Net's party last Friday night (1/24), being interviewed by some > folks from a Japanese TV program. It would be interesting if someone could show up at Gilmore's press conferences to supply an alternative view of Gilmore himself. Of course, those still clinging to the notion that Gilmore is working for us might not be comfortable with this idea - biting the hand that feeds, etc., but I think it could be a good way to keep the moderator honest.

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[noise?] Media
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This was forwarded to me. It was too good not to share... >"Tonight on tales from Encrypt, we have a ghastly little story involving >Congress and your Web page." --- | If you're not part of the solution, You're part of the precipitate. | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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Humor
by Casey Iverson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Watch out for the Goodtimes Virus Goodtimes will re-write your hard drive, scramble any disks that are even close to your computer, recalibrate your refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice cream goes melty,demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards, screw up the tracking on your television and use subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's you try to play. It will give your ex-girlfriend your new phone number. It will mix Kool-aid into your fishtank. It will drink all your beer and leave its socks out on the coffee table when there's company coming over. It will put a dead kitten in the back pocket of your good suit pants and hide your car keys when you are late for work. Goodtimes will make you fall in love with a penguin. It will give you nightmares about circus midgets. It will pour sugar in your gas tank and shave off both your eyebrows while dating your current boyfriend behind your back and billing the dinner and hotel room to your Visa card. It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is dead, such is the power of Goodtimes, it reaches out beyond the grave to sully those things we hold most dear. It moves your car randomly around parking lots so you can't find it. It will kick your dog. It will leave libidinous messages on your boss's voice mail in your voice! It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve. Goodtimes will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet seat up. It will make a batch of Methamphetamine in your bathtub and then leave bacon cooking on the stove while it goes out to chase gradeschoolers with your new snowblower. These are just a few signs... Just be very careful! CI

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Re: If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before....
by mjb＠aiinc.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Yes that would be cool so i could test it out against my decompiler that seems to do great agains encrypted txt. With the realease of the usa policy on encryption do you all think that the 160 level will be increased or will they make new standards. ---------- > From: ichudov(a)algebra.com > To: DataETRsch(a)aol.com > Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Subject: Re: If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before.... > Date: Thursday, January 23, 1997 8:06 PM > > Mr. Ramos, > > > You promised to release the algorithm of your program as well as > crypto-relevant source code. You promised to do it atfer a month, and > the time has come. We are eagerly awaiting the promised code. > > Thank you so much for your openness. > > igor > > DataETRsch(a)aol.com wrote: > > > > {If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before, we're extremely sorry.} > > {UDCM's web site may have been under construction during the time you > > visited.} > > {UDCM's web site has finished undergoing its changes and will operate > > correctly.} > > {UDCM V2.0 has been extensively modified from its previous variation.} > > {Digital signaturing and public key cryptosystem capabilities have been > > added.} > > {UDCM's DS and PKCS techniques do NOT make use of conventional PN factoring.} > > {UDCM's source code is currently unavailable. PLEASE DO NOT REQUEST IT.} > > {UDCM's on-line help documentation has also been extensively modified.} > > {This advertisement has also been modified.} > > > > Hello, > > > > Greetings! I am Jeremy K. Yu-Ramos, president of DataET Research, Data > > Engineering Technologies. I am sending you this message to let you know that > > DataET Research has recently initiated the distribution of UDCM, Universal > > Data Cryptography Module. UDCM implements a revolutionarily new, extremely > > advanced and sophisticated, digital data encryption algorithm named IMDMP, > > Integrated Mathematical Data Manipulation and Positioning. > > > > UDCM (the IMDMP algorithm)... > > > > o Is a royalty-free Windows DLL module featuring advanced cryptography. > > o Contains more than 150 procedures and functions. > > o Is a very cost-effective size of only 60 kilobytes. > > o Implements the IMDMP encryption algorithm. > > o Allows encryption keys as large as 2048 bits. > > o Includes 18 sub-algorithms. > > o Processes all forms of binary and ASCII files. > > o Allows multiple encryption layer levels. > > o Has absolutely no back-doors or magical keys. > > o Includes time and date locking features. > > o Includes file specific unique encryption features. > > o Includes file authentication guard features. > > o Includes digital signaturing capabilities. > > o Implements the public key cryptosystem method of security. > > o Includes data importance and sensitivity stamping features. > > > > UDCM, being a Windows DLL module, can be accessed through programs developed > > with popular application and database programming languages and environments > > such as: C, C++, Visual Basic, PowerBuilder, Delphi, OOP Pascal, Turbo > > Pascal, dBase, Paradox, Access, Sybase, Oracle, etc. > > > > DataET Research has released a shareware version of UDCM named UDCM V2.0. > > > > To download UDCM V2.0 for free, please go to: > > http://members.aol.com/dataetrsch/udcm.html. > > > > I hope you will consider applying UDCM in the software you develop. Thank-you > > very much for your time. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Jeremy K.Yu-Ramos > > President > > DataET Research > > Data Engineering Technologies > > > > > > - Igor.

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Re: Cellular phone triangulation
by Mark M. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Toto wrote: > So far, as a result of the plethora of laws passed to enable law > enforcement agencies to 'catch drug dealers', I have seen only a > few minor criminals who are claimed to have been brought to justice > as a result of these laws, while seeing documentation of hundreds > and thousands of ordinary citizens being harassed and having their > human rights violated by these same laws. > And still, we have people like Mark, who seem relatively intelligent > and informed but who still echo the party-line of Big Brother when > He proclaims that the average citizen must be subjected to new and > better ways to monitor the movements and activities of His citizens > in order to 'protect' them from 'drug dealers'. Somehow, I thought my original post was ambiguous enough to be interpreted as support for the government's expansion of surveillance capabilities or the War on Some Drugs. Nothing could be further from the truth. I believe that the original intention of requiring cell phone providers to have the ability to triangulate all the signals they receive was so that drug dealers and other Enemies of the People could be caught easier. Since, drug dealers frequently use cell phones to avoid tracking, I thought that this was probably the primary justification. Just like the current GAK proposal, the government has found another way to justify a proposal to fool people into thinking that it's really for their own good. Many people have grown tired of hearing about the government's "compelling interest" in fighting "crime." The government claims that GAK is not only for violating people's rights by trying to get people to believe that it is a valuable service because it will allow people to recover their crypto keys if they ever lose them. In the case of the cell phone proposal, the promise of better 911 service is used to justify this latest violation of civil rights. Mark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMuu7UizIPc7jvyFpAQG55gf6ApVENBJJEIQ+9xKs/9ldaSRbDvemI1DY Q0MyPkuOHo4e97i3dMYFk42Jb+OA+O0Q0kdsxRV0Y2i26GxTvC362+f/xI2+dTly YvyhPwgUyztfVC+IrjQgpuvqOMWthqdBrkZR7cJAs7KQG49CiWMAVcmCmQGUWJU/ mv2TRHAw3GT0NYIqF5FhTFAEoXcPZAjuEHP1pYPOPJ1zjrUkp6adcK2khgFHKwYp L8Pc9YLTJ/VNuw1n02PcfnitzPfgQIdhQVJAxwRClCxyifBKzQW1BtcMKyPhoxHY roTqotTzpIROBJVGZStx99mEscYG3KJCymDp6zqEfC78WWcUhoMMYg== =N8mn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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RE: Fighting the cybercensor
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Dr.Dimitri Vulis However U.S.G. is able to say that people of Iraq or Lybia or Cuba should not be permitted on the 'net. It also bombs Iraq and murders their civilians in retaliation for something their governments supposedly did. ................................................................ The U.S.G. has many more resources than most of us to do these things, including equipment, cooperative troops, money, and recognition from other governments. If other nations disagree with the U.S.G. they have the resources to discuss, bargain, negotiate, criticize, form alliances, take their chances and retaliate, etc. These things are done on a level not accessible to the most of us. All that we individuals have are access to telephone lines, computers, and modems. Yet even as we speak the world is being "wired" with cables to further make this singular communication possible and open up avenues to non-government organized activities: international corporations are se tting up offices, services, and correspondence wherever in the world they can find markets. All this is happening even while the governments are complaining to each other about what their citizens are posting (tch, tch) and threatening to deprive each other of that privilege. While governments and their True Believer citizens are dealing with each other on one level, the rest of the world is reorganizing itself into a different order of living and doing business. They are sharing ideas and examining their concepts and beliefs, they are conducting a lot of their disagreements on the net (instead of physically against each other on the ground), opening up to a broader view of relationships between individuals, or to governments, or to religions, sexuality, etc. The situation hasn't completely changed yet, but it is in process. .. Blanc

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Elliptic curves
by nobody＠zifi.genetics.utah.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C[reep] May's family tree goes straight up. All of his ancestors were siblings, to dumb to recognize each other in the dark. _ O O _ \-|-\_/-|-/ Timmy C[reep] May /^\ /^\ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

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Cellular Encryption Docs
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks to David Wagner and Steve Schear, we've learned about the latest documents on cellular encryption which supercede the 1992 CAVE document, Appendix A to IS-54, which contained the CAVE algorithm. Here are the latest, followed by ordering information. TIA/EIA/IS-136.1-A -- TDMA Cellular/PCS - Radio Interface - Mobile Station - Base Station Compatibility - Digital Control Panel, October, 1996, 372 pp. $350.00. Addendum No. 1 to IS-136.1-A, November, 1996, 40 pp. Free. TIA/EIA/IS-136.2-A -- TDMA Cellular/PCS - Radio Interface - Mobile Station - Base Station Compatibility - Traffic Channels and FSK Control Channel, October, 1996, 378 pp. $310.00. TIA/EIA-627 -- 800 MHZ Cellular System, TDMA Radio Interface, Dual-Mode Mobile Station - Base Station Compatibility Standard, June, 1996, 258 pp. $120.00. These documents can be ordered from: Global Engineering Documents 15 Inverness Way East Englewood, Colorado 80112 Telephone: 1-800-854-7179 However, each of the documents lists the following related supplements which contain "sensitive information" and may be obtained by US/CA citizens from TIA by signing a Non-Disclosure Agreement and acceptance of export restrictions: Appendix A to IS-136. Appendix A to 627. Common Cryptographic Algorithms. Interface Specification for Common Cryptographic Algorithms. These controlled documents can be requested by calling Ms. Sharon Vargish at 1-703-907-7702, who will fax an NDA, and upon receipt of the completed form, will send the controlled documents at no cost. Here's the NDA: AGREEMENT ON CONTROL AND NONDISCLOSURE OF COMMON CRYPTOGRAPHIC ALGORITHMS REVISION A TO IS-54, IS-95, AND IS-136 [Note: 627 supercedes IS-54; IS-95 is for CDMA] "I, _________________________, an employee/consultant/affiliate (typed name) of __________________________, hereafter, "the company," (Company name) _____________________________ (Company address) _____________________________ and a United States or Canadian citizen, acknowledge and understand that the subject documents, to which I will have access contain information [which] is subject to export control under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) (Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 120-130). I also understand that the subject documents represent valuable, proprietary and confidential business information of TIA and its members. I hereby certify that this information will be controlled and will only be further disclosed, exported, or transferred according to the terms of the ITAR. ______________________________ _____________________________ Signature Date ______________________________ _____________________________ Printed Name Witness ______________________________ _____________________________ Title Printed Name of Witness [End NDA]

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Re: Hi again, and an invitation to kibitz
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In addition to David Wagner's comments, I'd like to point out several more weaknesses. - Would Kerberos work just as well? No sense reinventing the 3-headed dog. - You're not authenticating the server to the client. - If the challenge is different every time, the server needs to keep the user's password in plaintext (unlike Unix encrypted passwords.) This means that attacks on the server's file system can steal it, and since the password is used for session encryption, it can be used to forge sessions as well. - Alternatively, if the challenge is always the same (per user), then even one eavesdrop kills you, as with Unix passwords. - Since you're using the same 7-byte password hash for the first third of the authentication as for the session key, the dictionary attack on E(challenge, First-seven-bytes) gives you the session key, so you can eavesdrop just fine. If the password is too short, you can then dictionary-attack MD4 to find it also. - There's a Diffie-Hellman variant that can do logins. Unfortunately, it's patented (by some guy from Siemens in Paderborn DE, who patented it in Germany about 2 years before I rediscovered it, and patented it in the US about 6 months before :-) It covers any login methods using commutative hashes H1(H2(x)) == H2(H1(x)). The Siemens version extends it to authenticate both ends to each other; I extended it to get a session key for encryption and/or authentication. This really shouldn't have been patentable - my rediscovery shows that it must be pretty obvious to anyone skilled in the trade :-), and rather than reinventing the wheel, I was reinventing the hubcap or tire swing.... > In article <199701140755.CAA04514(a)mail.intercon.com>, >Amanda Walker <amanda(a)intercon.com> wrote: >> (a) Server sends 8-byte challenge to client >> (b) Client sends Microsoft NT authentication response to the server >> (take the password in Unicode form, do an MD4 hash, pad with 0s to 21 >> bytes, split into 3 7-byte groups, use these as DES keys to encrypt >> the challenge three times, send the 24-byte result as the response). >> (c) If authentication fails, close the connection. >> (d) If authentication succeeds, all subsequent traffic is enccrypted with >> DES in CFB mode. Until April :), the DES key used is taken from the >> first 7 bytes of the MD4 hash of the password (after April, we expect >> to switch to Diffie-Hellman key exchange first, followed by a revised >> authentication handshake). > At 11:20 AM 1/17/97 -0800, David Wagner wrote: >Some weaknesses: >- It doesn't resist dictionary attacks (no salt) when the attacker can make > one active probe (forge a fixed challenge and get the client's response). In particular, an 8 byte challenge is nowhere near enough, though the average million-dollar DES-cracker won't be as easy to adapt for 2**64 cycles of hash+DES*3 - and don't handle each third separately! At least do something like 3DES-EDE and return an 8-byte response, or hash the three output bytes together and send the hash. Using >=16 bytes of challenge would be better, or >=24 if you want printable challenges. >- It doesn't stop replay attacks (replay a fixed challenge, now the same DES > key is used, so replay DES-encrypted session data). You may not be able to replay a given challenge usefully, assuming it's different each time, but MITM attacks work ok after you've cracked the password by dictionary attack in the previous round. >- DES-encryption doesn't provide message authentication against active > attacks; use a MAC too. >- You should use independent DES keys for each direction of the connection. >- Also the DES encryption key doesn't change for each connection. It should. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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