December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: My Departure, Moderation, and "Ownership of the List"
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"jer+(a)andrew.cmu.edu" "Jeremiah A Blatz" 5-FEB-1997 06:54:01.96 >On the choke points note, mailing lists are better than usenet because >legendary AOLers with there 5 free hours of fame and their ilk usually >don't figure out how to pester mailing lists. Being on a mailing list >usually requires a commitment, that is enough of a barrier for many of >the usenet underirables. Umm... try reading list-managers for a while on AOL cluelessness for mailing lists. The Usenet AOL undesirables also do things like reading AOL's ever-so-helpful directory of mailing lists (some list managers have asked to have their list taken _off_ of this directory). -Allen

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Re: Moderation, Tim, Sandy, me, etc. * Strong crypto == DES?!
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"mclow(a)owl.csusm.edu" "Marshall Clow" 5-FEB-1997 04:04:13.13 >At 4:05 PM -0800 2/4/97, aaron(a)herringn.com wrote: >> >>If I might make a suggestion: >> >>Some people want moderation. That's fine, I've never been very big on >>letting other people choose what I read, but some people want it. >> >>For those who want it, let someone moderate the list for as long as >>they care to do it. Approved messages get a "X-sandy-approved" >>header. The responsibility for setting up a filter to toss everything >>that doesn't have the header is the responsibility of the end user. >>Toad will need to filter incoming posts to make sure they don't come >>"pre-approved", but that's the only hole I can think of. >> >>Everyone gets all of the Cypherpunks list. Those who want moderation >>filter the unapproved posts, those who want all of it get all of it. >> >>Hopefully, this will make (almost) everyone happy. >> >I like this idea. >However, I would suggest an additional refinement: > Implement a cypherpunks-moderated list which >is all the 'approved' messages. This way, people who wish >to have the benefits of a filtered list are happy, people who >wish to have posts rated for them (but be able to check on >the "rater") are happy, and people who wish to see every >message are happy. > >(I know that John has concerns about toad's mail capacity, >and this may be too big a load) Lance's offer for informix to host the unmoderated version of the list may be of assistance here. >ObCrypto policy: > Was anyone else besides me amazed by the guy >from Deloitte-Touche at the Internet Privacy Coalition luncheon >last week? I mean, he all but advocated violent overthrow of >the government. D-T is the most "establishment" of the big-6 >accounting firms, last time that I looked. What all did he have to say? -Allen

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Edited Edupage, 4 February 1997
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"educom(a)educom.unc.edu" 5-FEB-1997 01:10:14.09 To: IN%"edupage(a)elanor.oit.unc.edu" "EDUCOM Edupage Mailing List" >************************************************************ >Edupage, 4 February 1997. Edupage, a summary of news about information >technology, is provided three times a week as a service by Educom, a >Washington, D.C.-based consortium of leading colleges and universities >seeking to transform education through the use of information technology. >************************************************************ >GATES SAYS OLD LAWS ARE GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE NET >Microsoft's Bill Gates: "It's always surprising how old concepts carry over >into the new medium. It's overly idealistic to act like, Oh, the Internet >is the one place where people should be able to do whatever they wish: >present child pornography, do scams, libel people, steal copyrighted >material. Society's values have not changed fundamentally just because it's >an Internet page. Take copyright. Sure, there should be some >clarifications about copyright, but the old principles work surprisingly >well in the new medium. Anybody who says you have to start over -- I don't >agree with that." (George Feb 97) Looks like he hasn't thought about enforcement problems, which may fortunately prevent the application of unnecessary laws to the 'net. >CULTURE CLASHES ON THE INTERNET >At a session of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, the issue of >censorship on the Internet was debated from East/West perspectives, with the >Eastern view represented by such countries as Singapore, Iran, and Egypt. >Denmark foreign minister Uffe Ellemann-Jensen said, "Whenever you want to >stop the free flow of information, you must ask yourself what is possible. >The usual answer from politicians is we need international rules. I say, >forget it. It won't happen." Iranian mathematics professor Mohammed >Lasijani countered: "In the west, the issue is sometimes how to globalise >liberalism: how to export an ideology. I am not a liberal, and I do not >believe liberalism is the only way to a decent life." (Financial Times 4 >Feb 97) Well, yes, neither did Adolf Hitler. Sorry, cultural differences won't wash; individual liberties are more important than culture or national sovreignty. >Edupage is written by John Gehl <gehl(a)educom.edu> & Suzanne Douglas ><douglas(a)educom.edu>. Voice: 404-371-1853, Fax: 404-371-8057. >Technical support is provided by Information Technology Services at the >University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. >********************************************************** >Edupage ... is what you've just finished reading. To subscribe to Edupage: >send mail to: listproc(a)educom.unc.edu with the message: subscribe edupage >Edgar Allan Poe (if your name is Edgar Allan Poe; otherwise, substitute >your own name). To unsubscribe send a message to: listproc(a)educom.unc.edu >with the message: unsubscribe edupage. (If you have subscription problems, >send mail to manager(a)educom.unc.edu.)

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Re: ANNOUNCEMNT: February 1997 Cypherpunks Bay Area Meeting
by Ed Falk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi all; if anybody's interested in having a PGP key-signing party at this event, I'd be willing to organize one. If interested, send me your key (or a pointer to where I can download it), and let me know what times are good for you for the party. -ed falk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQBVAwUBMvkGtzLd6HIbO1jdAQGZFQH9GNbQCwSS09YuPrC9jg43A9NiusV18sdM 66MKMVxIYYi2EstThJVWN8NLYCIGCgOiJnnIJ4ZgkbnAwY9zmZviVw== =4etp -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anil Das <das(a)sgi.com> writes: > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > > > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. > > Thanks for the hint, Dr. Vulis. I have registered for a course, but > seats are available only in fall. Toilet seats in the state of free fall? The stego on Sandy's moderated list blows my mind... --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by Rabid Wombat 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > Anil Das <das(a)sgi.com> writes: > > > Adam Back wrote: > > > > > > What do people think of starting an alt.cypherpunks USENET newsgroup? > > > > > > > I have only one objection. I will never post to an Usenet group > > under my real email address for fear of ending up in spammer > > databases. > > > > -- > > Anil Das > > > > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. > Unfortunately, if everyone is posting from "nobody@thevoid" or such, we'd lose the "personalities" that make up the community. Why not use a "nym" account to post - one that is configured to discard all incoming email? -r.w.

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In soc.culture.russian.moderated, the moderation bot has a special feature that allows anonymous posters to establish and maintain their "identities" and reputations. igor Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > > Anil Das <das(a)sgi.com> writes: > > > > > Adam Back wrote: > > > > > > > > What do people think of starting an alt.cypherpunks USENET newsgroup? > > > > > > > > > > I have only one objection. I will never post to an Usenet group > > > under my real email address for fear of ending up in spammer > > > databases. > > > > > > -- > > > Anil Das > > > > > > > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. > > > > Unfortunately, if everyone is posting from "nobody@thevoid" or such, we'd > lose the "personalities" that make up the community. Why not use a "nym" > account to post - one that is configured to discard all incoming email? > > -r.w. > - Igor.

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RE: Fighting the cybercensor
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:09 PM 2/4/97 -0800, jim bell wrote: >At 08:15 PM 1/28/97 -0800, Steve Schear wrote: >>>The poor can not hope to match the tyrants bid as they only have 10% of the >>>wealth, the household knows that thier participation in an attempt on the >>>tyrant will get them killed. Even if the attempt was successful. >>>The people from the outside who would benefit from the bounty benefit more >>>by taking the tyrants offer and then trying again, i.e. tiger teams. >> >>I think a hole in your thinking is to assume that the assasins have no >>motive other than financial gain. I would submit that there are those that >>have the skills, training and a political agenda coherent with the >>wagerers, lacking only the financial incentive to make the risks >>acceptable. These wetworkers won't consider accepting the bribe of the >>rich/powerful ... > >However, fortunately I don't think it would make any difference in the >overall effects. While AP would eliminate the taxation which is commonly >thought of as the main way a "rich person" loses assets, in practice it >would also shut down the well-hidden systems that allow some people to get >rich (or, merely live off somebody else) "unfairly." Government agents >come to mind, of course. > The money doesn't necessarily come from taxation, the owner of a business takes a cut of whatever money is made even if that person is unproductive. The tyrant would be the owner of the industry. If you are right then governments would effectively lose the ability to tax, with or without representation, as most people do not agree on everything, like how their money is spent. However, even now, as pointed out in some recent posts, our tax money is used to foreward the goals of a few, these few want to eliminate guns, crypto, free speech, ect. Although we are in oppostition, our money is still used to foreward the goals. Not unlike what I heard about the U.S.S.R. in vietnam. The following is according to my source. When the Soviet Ambassitor to the U.N. was sick, thats when the aid to vietnam could begin, as the U.S.S.R was not there to veto it. Now the U.S.S.R. was forced to aid both sides, those that were in agreement with them politically, and the U.N., of which they were a member. End of source data. Even those who oppose the taxes would be forced to pay as it would be the army that would be collecting. Then they could take the remaining monies that they had to target the leaders, who would use the tax revinues to protect themselves. If more money was needed, nore taxes would be collected. If it were a private corporation, the wages of the workers would be reduced on occassion to pay for the different security systems of the owner. Additionally, under our current system, the assassin would have his day in court, perhaps he could escape the government, making the cost-benefit analysis skewed in favor of crime. Under a system as proposed, the assassin would be forced do deal with a more powerful curse. Insurance companies would be reconfigured to anonymously see to the death of whatever caused the death of thier clients. They would make money because if the death could be ruled accidental, they would not have to pay. If the person died of a heart attack, and the food taster didn't, (the food taster would probably be the cooks son by the way), then the bond that the tyrant had with the company would be void. The company would cash the check. If the tyrant wanted to insure h[is/er] survival, (s)he would take out several of these bonds, with different companies, each with a signature amount to give to the executors to check their loyalty. If the company paying 1295065 dollars didn't pay up, the executors would tell the world. The idea is, where a layer can be subverted, duplicate the layer so that at least one element is bound to work.

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Re: mail-to-news fun
by stewarts＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> Well, I'd really rather not do that. I already have to deal with >> abuse from nym.alias.net and mix(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu users. >All that being said, it might not be worth the effort to allow posting, >since you're not actually doing the posting anyway. I've thought about >allowing posting again with a very restrictive newsgroup list >(only alt.anonymous.messages). If I were going to restart a remailer, and to offer news posting, I'd probably limit it to posting to moderated newsgroups only, so a human can trash things that look like SPAM or abuse; the abuse that caused me to kill my remailer wasn't something a simple filter would catch. (I'd also prefix each posting with a header about this message having been received from an anonymous source, not verified, not guaranteed to be worth the electrons it's printed on, probably not written by anybody whose name's at the bottom, etc.... People don't read mail headers or disclaimers at the bottom, and putting disclaimers like that into message text for email exposes the message to traffic analysis.) Alt.anonymous.messages is an interesting alternative, but one of the ideals of posting news from a remailer is to allow people to broadcast politically incorrect speech anonymously, avoiding censorship and retribution as much as possible. This means letting people call Lee Kwan Yew a fascist, complain that OJ's a space alien, identify the person Hillary paid to off Vince Foster, or proclaim that Hubbard's Ahmaddiyya Witnesses are the One True Religion -- Or post the One Page RSA+RC4 to the China newsgroups. On the other hand, I don't want to support postings titled "ALL FAGS MUST DIE" with a forged signature and email at the bottom, and I especially don't want to post that from my remailer without indicating that anything posted by a remailer might be forged. That's why I shut down my previous remailer - the forger only posted one forged message; the person whose name got forged got flamed severely by dozens of people who objected to "her" posts. Blocking the gay newsgroups cuts down on that kind of trolling, but also cuts out the "Help, I might be gay and my parents will kill me" traffic that remailers are supposed to help with. On several other hands, though, even if you limit news posting, trolls can abuse a remailer by sending email to large mailing lists. It'd certainly never happen to Cypherpunks :-), but some other mailing lists might attract trolls, and it's not easy to identify them in advance (though I suppose adding a disclaimer and cutmarks any time you post to something other than a known remailer is a partial solution.) # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Re: More on Cellular Encryption Docs
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:39 AM 2/5/97 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >>>>Here's more on the controlled documents for cellular encryption >>>>from TIA/EIA we described in a 26 January post to cpunks: >... >>>Of course, ITAR as recently modified says it's ok to send this >>>stuff overseas to foreigners, as long as it's on paper. >>>There may be separate restrictions on sending it, or on copying, >>>but they're based on copyright or contractual non-disclosure. >> >>Given that high-density inkjet printers can do 600x600 dpi resolution, it >>should be possible to achieve the equivalent of 100x100 bpi of >>easily-recoverable data on ordinary paper. That's about 800 kilobits, or >>100 kilobytes. What does ITAR say about this? > >These are text, perhaps with occasional illustrations, so the current >interim export rules say it's ok. > >For optically-scannable printed data, the government's announcement says >it reserves (somehow) its right (acquired in unspecified manner :-) >to re-evaluate the exportability at a later time. I think they >haven't settled on whether they'd be more embarassed by banning it >(which bans export of printed material, risking serious Constitutional >challenges) or by not banning it (having people laugh at them while >exporting source code or even binaries in OCR-A on loose-leaf paper >with page numbers and checksums.) ... Let's not tempt them with something that the common person on the street would consider computer media, I.E. punched cards and dataglyphs. Remember the old fonts that used to be everywhere? The ones with the thickened letters at key places? Look at a check some time, that is the type of font at the bottom, its designed to be readable by both man and machine. Print out the source code in one of those fonts and mail that. This is not as data intensive as the other way, but at least it can be argued that it can be read by an unaided person. That way, on the other end, the text can be scanned in directly, using a modified form of check clearing software, and converted into electronic media, sans errors.

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MA Electronic Records and Signature Act
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:08:30 -0500 (EST) To: Multiple Recipients of e$pam <e$pam(a)intertrader.com> From: e$pam(a)intertrader.com (e$pam) Reply-To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com X-Comment: To unsubscribe, send any email to e$pam-off(a)intertrader.com Precedence: Bulk Subject: MA Electronic Records and Signature Act X-orig-from: EskWIRED <eskwired(a)shore.net> X-e$pam-source: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Forwarded by Robert Hettinga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: EskWIRED <eskwired(a)shore.net> To: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Subject: MA Electronic Records and Signature Act MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EskWIRED <eskwired(a)shore.net> A discussion draft of the MA Electronic Records and Signatures Act is now available on the web at http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/itd/legal/mersa.htm. The draft appears to be very preliminary--entire sections are marked [under development]. It is notable for its brevity, especially compared to the Utah Statute. Noticeably absent is any language dealing with licensure of certification authorities (bravo!). A link is provided for submission of public comments to Ray Campbell and Dan Greenwood. ========================================================= ---------EskWIRED(a)shore.net------------ ========================================================= ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from the dcsb list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu -------------------------------------------------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Java e$ Software Developers in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$pam? Help pay for it! See <http://www.atanda.com/rah.html> Or, for e$pam sponsorship, see <http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> HTMLurgist: Cynthia Zwerling <mailto:czrider@@webstuff.apple.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Remember the Blackout
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:12:47 -0500 (EST) To: Multiple Recipients of e$pam <e$pam(a)intertrader.com> From: e$pam(a)intertrader.com (e$pam) Reply-To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com X-Comment: To unsubscribe, send any email to e$pam-off(a)intertrader.com Precedence: Bulk Subject: Remember the Blackout X-orig-from: dwiner(a)well.com (DaveNet email) X-e$pam-source: owner-davenetworld(a)wired.com Forwarded by Robert Hettinga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- X-Sender: dwiner(a)mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:23:02 -0800 To: jonl(a)microsoft.com (Jon Lazarus), hopmann(a)holonet.net (Alex Hopmann), anna(a)LivePicture.com (Anna Godfrey), scotty1024(a)aol.com (Scott Turner), 577-7433(a)mcimail.com (Bobby Orbach), mwhutch(a)aol.com (Michael Hutchinson -- AOL Webmaster), rsiegelman(a)kpcb.com (Russ Siegelman), davenetworld(a)wired.com, pdeziel(a)adobe.com (Pam Deziel), siegel(a)barebones.com (Rich Siegel), slove(a)netscape.com (Scott Love) From: dwiner(a)well.com (DaveNet email) Subject: Remember the Blackout Sender: owner-davenetworld(a)wired.com Precedence: bulk --------------------------------------- Amusing Rants from Dave Winer's Desktop Released on 2/5/97; 1:23:01 PM PST --------------------------------------- A short piece, in the middle of much website work, to remind everyone that Saturday February 8 is the first anniversary of an important event in our new medium -- the web blackout of 1996. It's already history. In some circles it's not fashionable to remember that the United States government attempted to censor free speech on the Internet. I believe it would be cynical to overlook it. We defeated the law, even though we re-elected many of the politicians who tried to outlaw free speech in the name of protecting children. I'm building a website that will go live on Saturday to commemorate the protest, and to serve as a monument to the spirit of free speech. To remind us that this is a worldwide community, and no political system has the power to enforce its standards of decency on the medium. The battle to retain our rights is ongoing. Important organizations such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union deserve and require our support. It's easy to lose sight of the principles that we believe in, to be distracted by questions of corporate survival, of fear or greed. These are interesting issues, no doubt. But this is a creative and expressive medium and to protect its potential, unqualified free speech is essential. I played a small role in the web blackout last year. This year I hope to facilitate, to organize more sites and help to spread the word that free speech is not an option, not something that can be traded or limited and that no compromises are possible. <http://www.scripting.com/davenet/misc/blackout/> If you run a democracy-related site, large or small, please visit the page before Saturday and register. If you know someone who does, please pass this on. And if you value free speech, please visit the site on Saturday or later. It'll be a fascinating trip thru Internet history, if nothing else! Remember the blackout. Remember why it was necessary. Don't let people use children as an excuse to deprive people of their power to express themselves. Dave Winer ------------------------------------------- News & Updates: <http://www.scripting.com/> -------------------------------------------------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Java e$ Software Developers in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$pam? Help pay for it! See <http://www.atanda.com/rah.html> Or, for e$pam sponsorship, see <http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> HTMLurgist: Cynthia Zwerling <mailto:czrider@@webstuff.apple.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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British export restrictions?
by John Lehmann (SSASyd) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anyone know how the British govt. falls on crypto export legislation? -- John Lehmann

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[CRYPTO] PGP
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C[reep] May has been beaten up numerous times by fellow prostitutes for driving blow job prices down. (((> /< ( / ((({{{{{:< \ \<

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Hash functions
by mixmaster＠remail.obscura.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C[reep] Maya is the living proof that anal sex causes pregnancy. () \--o .-\__. ( \_ '-.-'

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Mondex
by mixmaster＠remail.obscura.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C. Maypole's aberrant sexual life has negatively impacted his mental integrity. \|/ @ @ -oOO-(_)-OOo- Timmy C. Maypole

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British export restrictions?
by John Lehmann 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anyone know how the British govt. falls on crypto export legislation? -- John Lehmann

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Hash functions
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C[reep] Maya is the living proof that anal sex causes pregnancy. () \--o .-\__. ( \_ '-.-'

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Mondex
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C. Maypole's aberrant sexual life has negatively impacted his mental integrity. \|/ @ @ -oOO-(_)-OOo- Timmy C. Maypole

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Rabid Wombat <wombat(a)mcfeely.bsfs.org> writes: > > > On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > > Anil Das <das(a)sgi.com> writes: > > > > > Adam Back wrote: > > > > > > > > What do people think of starting an alt.cypherpunks USENET newsgroup? > > > > > > > > > > I have only one objection. I will never post to an Usenet group > > > under my real email address for fear of ending up in spammer > > > databases. > > > > > > -- > > > Anil Das > > > > > > > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. > > > > Unfortunately, if everyone is posting from "nobody@thevoid" or such, we'd > lose the "personalities" that make up the community. Why not use a "nym" > account to post - one that is configured to discard all incoming email? > > -r.w. Post as "nobody(a)nowhere.net", but mention e-mail address for replies in the body of the article (or the signature). --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sandy the asshole continues to forward crypto-irrelevant fluff to the censored list as long as it's posted by his boyfriends: "P.J. Westerhof" <p.j.wester(a)NGI.NL> writes: > At 18:12 4-02-97 -0800, you wrote: > >Erland van Lidth de Jeude is a MIT grad. He played the big badass in "Stir > >Crazy." Computer science major, BTW. > > > He is quite a singer too (at least he was some years ago on Dutch TV). > Perhaps that made the difference. ;-) > > Gr. > Peter > > > _________________________________________________________ > > P.J. Westerhof LL.D > e-mail P.J.WESTER(a)NGI.NL | Computerlaw > voice +31-347-375400 | Legal informatics > fax/data +31-347-375400 | IT - consultancy > Web: www.ngi.nl/cr/ | Soaring > _________________________________________________________ > > --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: mail-to-news fun
by Andy Dustman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com wrote: > Alt.anonymous.messages is an interesting alternative, but one of the > ideals of posting news from a remailer is to allow people to > broadcast politically incorrect speech anonymously, avoiding censorship > and retribution as much as possible. This means letting people > call Lee Kwan Yew a fascist, complain that OJ's a space alien, > identify the person Hillary paid to off Vince Foster, > or proclaim that Hubbard's Ahmaddiyya Witnesses are the One True > Religion -- Or post the One Page RSA+RC4 to the China newsgroups. Hey, I agree. I allowed unlimited USENET posting from dustbin back in October. I almost had to shut the whole remailer down and the only reason I didn't was that I was able to hide it as a middleman. That's partly because dickwads were (for example) posting spams about Tim May on cypherpunks, and some people were complaining to my ISP. > On several other hands, though, even if you limit news posting, > trolls can abuse a remailer by sending email to large mailing lists. > It'd certainly never happen to Cypherpunks :-), but some other > mailing lists might attract trolls, and it's not easy to > identify them in advance (though I suppose adding a disclaimer > and cutmarks any time you post to something other than a > known remailer is a partial solution.) I'm working (slowly, as I have time) on some new remailer software which blocks by default and notifies the recipient that he can claim his anonymous mail as soon as he "signs" the usage agreement (magic cookie exchange). -- Andy Dustman / Computational Center for Molecular Structure and Design / UGA You can have my PGP public key by sending mail with subject "send file key". You can have my PGP secret key when you pry it out of my cold, dead neurons. http://charon.chem.uga.edu/~andy mailto:andy@CCMSD.chem.uga.edu <}+++<

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Re: mail-to-news fun
by stewarts＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> Well, I'd really rather not do that. I already have to deal with >> abuse from nym.alias.net and mix(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu users. >All that being said, it might not be worth the effort to allow posting, >since you're not actually doing the posting anyway. I've thought about >allowing posting again with a very restrictive newsgroup list >(only alt.anonymous.messages). If I were going to restart a remailer, and to offer news posting, I'd probably limit it to posting to moderated newsgroups only, so a human can trash things that look like SPAM or abuse; the abuse that caused me to kill my remailer wasn't something a simple filter would catch. (I'd also prefix each posting with a header about this message having been received from an anonymous source, not verified, not guaranteed to be worth the electrons it's printed on, probably not written by anybody whose name's at the bottom, etc.... People don't read mail headers or disclaimers at the bottom, and putting disclaimers like that into message text for email exposes the message to traffic analysis.) Alt.anonymous.messages is an interesting alternative, but one of the ideals of posting news from a remailer is to allow people to broadcast politically incorrect speech anonymously, avoiding censorship and retribution as much as possible. This means letting people call Lee Kwan Yew a fascist, complain that OJ's a space alien, identify the person Hillary paid to off Vince Foster, or proclaim that Hubbard's Ahmaddiyya Witnesses are the One True Religion -- Or post the One Page RSA+RC4 to the China newsgroups. On the other hand, I don't want to support postings titled "ALL FAGS MUST DIE" with a forged signature and email at the bottom, and I especially don't want to post that from my remailer without indicating that anything posted by a remailer might be forged. That's why I shut down my previous remailer - the forger only posted one forged message; the person whose name got forged got flamed severely by dozens of people who objected to "her" posts. Blocking the gay newsgroups cuts down on that kind of trolling, but also cuts out the "Help, I might be gay and my parents will kill me" traffic that remailers are supposed to help with. On several other hands, though, even if you limit news posting, trolls can abuse a remailer by sending email to large mailing lists. It'd certainly never happen to Cypherpunks :-), but some other mailing lists might attract trolls, and it's not easy to identify them in advance (though I suppose adding a disclaimer and cutmarks any time you post to something other than a known remailer is a partial solution.) # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Re: Cypherpunks FOIA request
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 08:22 AM 2/5/97 -0800, Peter Hendrickson wrote: >At 12:40 AM 2/5/1997, Greg Broiles wrote: >> To date, I have received three responses: one from the SF office of the FBI, >> indicating that they have no records responsive to my request; one from the >> NSA, indicating that they are processing my request, and one from the Secret >> Service, asking for a copy of my signature. (I've got no clue why they want >> that; unless I screwed up, I believe my initial request was signed.) > >Have these organizations been known to lie? What penalties does >the organization or its employees face when they do so? Have these >penalties ever been applied? Yes, various law enforcement agencies and intelligence agencies have been willing to lie to the American public (and the world at large) from time to time :) Pragmatically, the only penalty that the organization(s) and individuals face is political, e.g., cuts in funding or loss of employment due to public humiliation/embarrassment. >Also, which exceptions in the FOIA law would allow them to respond >dishonestly? They are allowed to respond that "no records exist" even if records do exist, where: (1) The records relate to an active criminal investigation, the subject of the investigation is unaware of the investigation, and the disclosure of the existence of records would likely disrupt law enforcement activity; (5 USC 552 (c)(1)) (2) The records relate to a confidential informant, and the disclosure of the existence of the records would tend to reveal the identity of the informant (e.g., I suspect Joe Blow is an informant, so I make a FOIA request for information gained from confidential informant Joe Blow; even if I receive only blacked-out pages, the fact that the records exist tells me something about Joe) (5 USC 552 (c)(2)) (3) The records are classified, held by the FBI, and pertain to intelligence, counterintelligence, or international terrorism. (5 USC 552 (c)(3)) They may also withhold information in other circumstances, but are not otherwise allowed to say that "no records exist". (There's something surreal about presuming careful attention to tiny legal details from organizations which perpetrated debacles like COINTELPRO, Waco, Ruby Ridge, perjury/manufacturing evidence in the FBI lab, etc. But sometimes something interesting is released, e.g., <http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/Scowcroft.gif>.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAgUBMvky//37pMWUJFlhAQE5tgf/QstFYJxNcJuRIQjF14a+3luyJgFe8MCp UpMfykNKHmnbq+ChZCsmgXUCt49s0VFQYeMdNH1HWaaOcTtRr3uqNFqmyLBQxSne PboMtzvl0Z6NKcP/DV1BwHxHJZbYVGPoPXDYd7xHvIsU0xRbHVOQgidgMJQmjf4E 4S/T3tovD+e1ahoSCBkZslLs/13pMstmDxz5tPd2mHwsFfLiklSaRUcKmtdkGPTc da3VFFOjYlYB4ps4dkd7Vv6zgl4ZQJLMXZyoBsYrAax4k3eLuheVj/inZIqZFHvO LqJPdCM34QurFXIOQmlo7sQnOvWPgc2ASdctV46lHTSJA6USIhbt9A== =KAj+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. |

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Remember the Blackout
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:12:47 -0500 (EST) To: Multiple Recipients of e$pam <e$pam(a)intertrader.com> From: e$pam(a)intertrader.com (e$pam) Reply-To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com X-Comment: To unsubscribe, send any email to e$pam-off(a)intertrader.com Precedence: Bulk Subject: Remember the Blackout X-orig-from: dwiner(a)well.com (DaveNet email) X-e$pam-source: owner-davenetworld(a)wired.com Forwarded by Robert Hettinga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- X-Sender: dwiner(a)mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:23:02 -0800 To: jonl(a)microsoft.com (Jon Lazarus), hopmann(a)holonet.net (Alex Hopmann), anna(a)LivePicture.com (Anna Godfrey), scotty1024(a)aol.com (Scott Turner), 577-7433(a)mcimail.com (Bobby Orbach), mwhutch(a)aol.com (Michael Hutchinson -- AOL Webmaster), rsiegelman(a)kpcb.com (Russ Siegelman), davenetworld(a)wired.com, pdeziel(a)adobe.com (Pam Deziel), siegel(a)barebones.com (Rich Siegel), slove(a)netscape.com (Scott Love) From: dwiner(a)well.com (DaveNet email) Subject: Remember the Blackout Sender: owner-davenetworld(a)wired.com Precedence: bulk --------------------------------------- Amusing Rants from Dave Winer's Desktop Released on 2/5/97; 1:23:01 PM PST --------------------------------------- A short piece, in the middle of much website work, to remind everyone that Saturday February 8 is the first anniversary of an important event in our new medium -- the web blackout of 1996. It's already history. In some circles it's not fashionable to remember that the United States government attempted to censor free speech on the Internet. I believe it would be cynical to overlook it. We defeated the law, even though we re-elected many of the politicians who tried to outlaw free speech in the name of protecting children. I'm building a website that will go live on Saturday to commemorate the protest, and to serve as a monument to the spirit of free speech. To remind us that this is a worldwide community, and no political system has the power to enforce its standards of decency on the medium. The battle to retain our rights is ongoing. Important organizations such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union deserve and require our support. It's easy to lose sight of the principles that we believe in, to be distracted by questions of corporate survival, of fear or greed. These are interesting issues, no doubt. But this is a creative and expressive medium and to protect its potential, unqualified free speech is essential. I played a small role in the web blackout last year. This year I hope to facilitate, to organize more sites and help to spread the word that free speech is not an option, not something that can be traded or limited and that no compromises are possible. <http://www.scripting.com/davenet/misc/blackout/> If you run a democracy-related site, large or small, please visit the page before Saturday and register. If you know someone who does, please pass this on. And if you value free speech, please visit the site on Saturday or later. It'll be a fascinating trip thru Internet history, if nothing else! Remember the blackout. Remember why it was necessary. Don't let people use children as an excuse to deprive people of their power to express themselves. Dave Winer ------------------------------------------- News & Updates: <http://www.scripting.com/> -------------------------------------------------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Java e$ Software Developers in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$pam? Help pay for it! See <http://www.atanda.com/rah.html> Or, for e$pam sponsorship, see <http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> HTMLurgist: Cynthia Zwerling <mailto:czrider@@webstuff.apple.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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