December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
by P.J. Westerhof 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 18:12 4-02-97 -0800, you wrote: >Erland van Lidth de Jeude is a MIT grad. He played the big badass in "Stir >Crazy." Computer science major, BTW. > He is quite a singer too (at least he was some years ago on Dutch TV). Perhaps that made the difference. ;-) Gr. Peter _________________________________________________________ P.J. Westerhof LL.D e-mail P.J.WESTER(a)NGI.NL | Computerlaw voice +31-347-375400 | Legal informatics fax/data +31-347-375400 | IT - consultancy Web: www.ngi.nl/cr/ | Soaring _________________________________________________________

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Re: AltaVista Tunnel
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anil Das wrote: > Rick Osborne wrote: > > He triumphantly exclaimed that the encryption was 128-bit, but when > > I said "128-bit what?" he cowered and muttered that he didn't know and went > > on with his little speech. The rest of my crypto-specific questions met > > with equal dark stares. And these are the people setting industry standards... > I should be happy that you are bashing a competitor and all, but give > them a break, OK? The marketing dweeb who has to do product pitches > on roadshows is not the same as the design engineer who designs the > system and sets technical standards. There can be a big difference in > technical knowledge about the product, and even basic competency, > between the two. HP in their first 17 years of making personal computers always sent real engineers along with salespeople to their product rollouts. Starting in late 1983 with their first MS-DOS computer, they did a 180-degree and eliminated the engineers, and started sending people who knew nothing about HP products, which is bad in the sense that some folks wanted to know "Why should I buy HP when I can get the real thing, i.e. IBM"? As a sales manager, I always had a hard time with that one. I blame HP in retrospect, for a moron mentality in their marketing department.

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Re: BA Crypto Machine Photos
by Daniel R. Oelke 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > >BTW, does anyone know the meaning of 'order wire mode' in the context of a > >crypto broadcast? This mode is found in the KWR-37 online crypto > >receiver. Please send all photo requests or responses via private E-mail. > > If it means the same thing as in the telecom industry, its an out-of-band > (often analof) channel between two locations connected by wide-band (e.g., > T1) facilities. Its primary purpose is to provide service personnel, at > each end point, the ability to converse with one another while performing > work on that link. > I would also guess it might be something similar to the orderwire in the telecom industry. I am more familiar with digital orderwire systems, but orderwires are generally all similar. You have a communications link, and some overhead on that link is dedicated to providing a voice channel for communications between sites so that people working on the line can communicate with each other. In a crypto system - I could see that the orderwire might be a in-the-clear transmission as part of the overhead so that people at each end of a hop can figure out why the data (i.e. encrypted) portion isn't getting through. Dan ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Oelke Alcatel Network Systems droelke(a)aud.alcatel.com Richardson, TX

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Re: Moderation, Tim, Sandy, me, etc. * Strong crypto == DES?!
by Jason Vagner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Re: the below. Easily the best and most intelligent suggestion so >far. Why couldn't Sandy and John with all their experience think >of this? Actually, I've been sitting on the sidelines, somewhat bemused, that this far into online living the cypherpunks have to rehash this themselves. I've seen this entire exchange at least three times in the last two years. None of the lists survived. Good luck.. >> If I might make a suggestion: >> Some people want moderation. That's fine, I've never been very big on >> letting other people choose what I read, but some people want it. >> For those who want it, let someone moderate the list for as long as >> they care to do it. Approved messages get a "X-sandy-approved" >> header. The responsibility for setting up a filter to toss everything >> that doesn't have the header is the responsibility of the end user. >> Toad will need to filter incoming posts to make sure they don't come >> "pre-approved", but that's the only hole I can think of. >> Everyone gets all of the Cypherpunks list. Those who want moderation >> filter the unapproved posts, those who want all of it get all of it. >> Hopefully, this will make (almost) everyone happy. --- Jason Vagner <jlv(a)sig.bsh.com> Resist KRAP and GAK. Police States Are Bad. "All that one can give is what is going to happen, which may have little to do with a present that you can grasp." - Avital Ronell.

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Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
by P.J. Westerhof 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 18:12 4-02-97 -0800, you wrote: >Erland van Lidth de Jeude is a MIT grad. He played the big badass in "Stir >Crazy." Computer science major, BTW. > He is quite a singer too (at least he was some years ago on Dutch TV). Perhaps that made the difference. ;-) Gr. Peter _________________________________________________________ P.J. Westerhof LL.D e-mail P.J.WESTER(a)NGI.NL | Computerlaw voice +31-347-375400 | Legal informatics fax/data +31-347-375400 | IT - consultancy Web: www.ngi.nl/cr/ | Soaring _________________________________________________________

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No Subject
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

IDEA vs DES vs Blowfish vs RSAREF Which of these symmetric algorithms are the hardest to break and what are their characteristics. //Anon

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Re: Cypherpunks FOIA request
by pdh＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:40 AM 2/5/1997, Greg Broiles wrote: > On 1/18/97, I sent freedom of information act requests to the FBI (main and > San Francisco offices), CIA, NSA, and Secret Service, asking them for copies > of information in their files relating to or referring to the cypherpunks > list, the cypherpunks meetings, and copies of any messages sent from or to > "cypherpunks(a)toad.com". > To date, I have received three responses: one from the SF office of the FBI, > indicating that they have no records responsive to my request; one from the > NSA, indicating that they are processing my request, and one from the Secret > Service, asking for a copy of my signature. (I've got no clue why they want > that; unless I screwed up, I believe my initial request was signed.) Have these organizations been known to lie? What penalties does the organization or its employees face when they do so? Have these penalties ever been applied? Also, which exceptions in the FOIA law would allow them to respond dishonestly? Inquiring minds want to know! Peter Hendrickson pdh(a)best.com

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No Subject
by Huge Cajones Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

IDEA vs DES vs Blowfish vs RSAREF Which of these symmetric algorithms are the hardest to break and what are their characteristics. //Anon

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Re: My Departure, Moderation, and "Ownership of the List"
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:20 am -0500 2/5/97, Matts Kallioniemi wrote: >Another way to get rid of the totally clueless and involuntary subscribers >would be to require subscription requests to be PGP signed and acknowledged >by the subscriber. Now, this sounds familiar... Everyone remember Eric's attempt to force signed messages? Herding cats, indeed. Cheers, Bob ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anil Das <das(a)sgi.com> writes: > Adam Back wrote: > > > > What do people think of starting an alt.cypherpunks USENET newsgroup? > > > > I have only one objection. I will never post to an Usenet group > under my real email address for fear of ending up in spammer > databases. > > -- > Anil Das > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Ireland: Bid To Ban "Tamper Proof" Phones
by Phil Karn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks for the info about the origins of the European GAK initiative. It would still be interesting to know how much of a hand the US has had (and continues to have) in influencing the crypto policies of other countries. Thanks also for the correction regarding divorce in Ireland. My sincere apologies if I offended anybody over there with my "socially backward" comment. Ireland is by no means unique even among western nations in having certain restrictive laws and practices regarding private social behavior. In general the US is not much better, and parts (especially the southeast) are probably worse. It is interesting that you would mention political terrorism and drug smuggling as prime factors pushing towards GAK in Ireland. The forces at work in the US government push towards GAK are quite similar. I am fond of saying that "national security" and "drugs" have become the root passwords to the US Constitution... Question: have there been any problems with the use of strong encryption (PGP, SSH, etc) on the Internet in Ireland? Is it widely used over there? Phil

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Re: Cypherpunks FOIA request
by Peter Hendrickson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:40 AM 2/5/1997, Greg Broiles wrote: > On 1/18/97, I sent freedom of information act requests to the FBI (main and > San Francisco offices), CIA, NSA, and Secret Service, asking them for copies > of information in their files relating to or referring to the cypherpunks > list, the cypherpunks meetings, and copies of any messages sent from or to > "cypherpunks(a)toad.com". > To date, I have received three responses: one from the SF office of the FBI, > indicating that they have no records responsive to my request; one from the > NSA, indicating that they are processing my request, and one from the Secret > Service, asking for a copy of my signature. (I've got no clue why they want > that; unless I screwed up, I believe my initial request was signed.) Have these organizations been known to lie? What penalties does the organization or its employees face when they do so? Have these penalties ever been applied? Also, which exceptions in the FOIA law would allow them to respond dishonestly? Inquiring minds want to know! Peter Hendrickson pdh(a)best.com

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Re: John's: In anarchy -everyone responsible
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970204:2343 jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> said: +At 09:05 PM 2/4/97 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote: +> In a "popular" anarchy, Jim Bell's assassination politics make +> perfectly good sense; but, a "popular" anarchy is not an _anarchy_. +I guess I don't understand the distinction you are trying to make, +between a "popular anarchy" and an "anarchy." Maybe you were trying +to distinguish between "dictatorship of the few (or one)" and +"dictatorship of the many (perhaps a majority)" but it didn't come out +very understandably. +Put simply, "anarchy is not the lack of order. It is the lack of +_orders_." disagree. pure anarchy is not the lack of "orders" --pure anarchy implies that everyone is imbued with that perfect sense of responsibility. +> anarchy is only possible in an ideal world where _everyone_ +> assumes not only responsibility for themselves, but for the common +> good. no malice, no greed, no need for assassination politics.... +No, that's traditional thinking and that's wrong. See AP part 8. +Freud believed (as "everyone" else believed, even myself, before AP) +that anarchy was inherently unstable. But it ISN'T, if the tools of +AP are used to stabilize it. And no, no altruism is necessary for AP +to work as well; no individuals are being asked to sacrifice +themselves for the common good. Rather, they are given the +opportunity to work to achieve a reward offered, cumulatively, by a +number of citizens. aah, but that is the difference between a _pure_ anarchy and a _popular_ anarchy. A pure _anarchy_ is sufficiently idealistic in that _noone_ lacks the necessary resonsibility to keep society moving, each individual in their own niche. As long as there is perfect responsibility in a perfect anarchy, then there is no need for AP. AP is a negative, or _punative_, influence; I might liken it to the Catholic Church which is a religion of fear, and an instrument of political control. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBMvixAL04kQrCC2kFAQECsQQAlPSQRpEE2dAKkqrWSlPf79QhSBtYbjXa rEyAlOrmi8NOxgyb8hGF/VwVkURUKnPr4gGJW9JvwuPB2x/AQeT11ZEQyVqeFGNF 0W6WR7yv3XsOT9UM6JCP9hFLWU33BumcPd26w8f/Z5mx87qEUoXeJD4ApLv5QNI3 WlyL0xDT1PM= =sfD3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: what's in a name?
by Dave Hayes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles <gbroiles(a)netbox.com> writes: > Wei Dai's message raises an important question: what is the relationship > between ownership and list content or quality? I'll assert that ownership can only have a negative impact on content. Freedom is preferable to bias, and hence loss of freedom can only hurt content...according to -my- standard of content anyway. > Are mailing lists an example of a situation where "the tragedy of the > commons" is not a useful metaphor? Yes. Such analogies assume that common people create tragedy, which is only true if their leaders have designed things to work that way. > Is the desire for an anarchic community at odds with a desire for > good use of resources? The network resources are there to handle email traffic. Attempting to place a non-technical content-based standard on the usage of resources invites censorship and leads to stagnation of ideas. If people would simply learn to filter what they don't like from their net.viewport, there would not be a perceived problem. ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet Nasrudin arrived at an all-comers horse race mounted on the slowest of oxen. Everyone laughed, an ox cannot run. "But I have seen it, when it was only a calf, running faster than a horse.", said Nasrudin. "So why should it not run faster, now that it is larger?"

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Re: Full strength Email Clients.
by Vangelis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Steven Herod wrote: > > Hello, I'm in search of an *EASY TO USE* Internet Email client > software that uses full strength (outside US export restriction) RSA > encryption. Private Idaho (for Windoze), without question. It's freeware, and acts as an almost seamless front-end to PGP. I use it all the time w/ my crpto-aware friends. http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/pi.html -- Vangelis <vangelis(a)qnis.net> /\oo/\ Finger for public key. PGP KeyID 1024/A558B025 PGP Fingerprint AE E0 BE 68 EE 7B CF 04 02 97 02 86 F0 C7 69 25 Life is my religion, the world is my altar.

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Re: A Vote of Silence for Human Gus-Peter
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Larry Johnson <lwjohnson(a)grill.sk.ca> writes: > I want to be the new modernator so anyone who wants me to be it can > not send any messages, ok? > So any people who dont send messages are voting for me, ok? > > (If I am modernator I will give everyone free pizza and Schotch.) > > Ok. Now evceryone vote, ok? > > Human Gus-Peter > > I volunteer to moderate cypherpunks(a)toad.com. I'll use a 'bot (like Sandy uses a 'bot) to junk submissions from Gilmore, Sandfart, and other known homosexuals, and pass on everything else. It'll probably have better S/N that Sandy's censored list does now. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Moderation [Tim,Sandy]
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: > > > > The drunk can be excluded, but when someone wants to use the drunk as > > > an example to escalate the exclusion to other persons who are not in > > > fact drunk, watch out! > > > If I get really really drunk, which happens very seldom, then I'm > > too drunk to post. I don't mind an occasional beer, though. > > > Oksas, have you ever tried beer? :-) > > I had my first beer(s) in three years at one of those industrial > parties last night. It made the craps table action seem a bit > merrier, and the girls were friendlier too. > I like an occasional Coors Lite. BTW I think Limey Faggots are right about one think: I like room-temperature beer better than cold beer. YMMV. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: If guilty of a lesser crime, you can be sentenced for a greater
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Dale Thorn wrote: > > > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > > people who have such money are not going to bump off very many more > > > people than they already do, because: > > > 1. They need the people to make money off of (Mafia rule #4, never > > > kill someone who owes you money [or is a money source]). > > > This is a wrong Mafia rule, they do kill debtors who are in default. > > Really? Then how do they collect their money? BTW, I heard the rule > from the mouth of a real mob hitman. mafia used to have a habit of hiring some lonely person do do work for them (such as, set up their crypto infrastructure), then make him disappear, and he won' be missed, and they won't have to pay for the work. Bumping off the people that you owe money to is bad for one's rep. I'd be reluctant to do consulting for organized crime for this reason. Perhaps that's why the Feds have such easy time wiretapping them. :-) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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ITAR and Paper ROM
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Given that high-density inkjet printers can do 600x600 dpi resolution, it >should be possible to achieve the equivalent of 100x100 bpi of >easily-recoverable data on ordinary paper. That's about 800 kilobits, or >100 kilobytes. What does ITAR say about this? > > >Jim Bell >jimbell(a)pacifier.com I'm not sure if what I did in the 80s, trying to create what I called 'paper ROM, is applicable. In these investigations I used matricies of small (1-3 mm) squares of gray (16 levels) or color (64 levels) with a mind to replace diskettes for inexpensive mass data distribution. I was able to reliably get 100-200 KB/page side using standard offset printing. With modern ink-jet/laser printers you should be able to reliably get at least 10-50KB/page side. Although a technical success, I abandoned the effort when I discovered someone had patented (4,488,679) something similar a few years earlier. -- Steve

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Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> writes: > Erland van Lidth de Jeude is a MIT grad. He played the big badass in "Stir > Crazy." Computer science major, BTW. > > > > > At 07:37 PM 2/3/97 -0800, Clint Barnett wrote: > >wasn't Dolph Lundgren an MIT grad? I seem to remember something about him > >having a degree in Chemical Engineering or something along those lines. > > > >clint barnett > >lord of the cosmos > >emily carr institute > > > >On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Anonymous wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> According to Rick Osborne: > >> > >> "I disagree and can speak from experience. I was denied admission to MIT > >> even thought I had a 3.82 GPA, 1440 SAT (one try), and had taken 9 AP test > >> with two 5's, four 4's, two 3's, and one 2. As for being well-rounded, I > >> was on several academic teams, sang in Chorus, acted and stage managed in > >> Drama, and played Tennis." > >> > >> People get into MIT--or don't get into MIT--for lots of reasons. Most > >> intelligent people apply to several schools, knowing that admissions > >> practices are subject to the vagaries of reality. > >> > >> In my case, my SATs were about 1500, with some 800s in achievement tests. > >> And the usual bullshit high school clubs, political offices, etc. etc. I > >> was accepted by MIT, but not by Caltech. I didn't lose any sleep over the > >> way things turned out. > >> > >> And I decided not to go to MIT, either. > >> > >> "The only thing I didn't have that the next MIT applicant had was money. > >> made the mistake of letting them know that I was dirt poor and would need > >> full aid/grants/etc, and to quote "The Great Escape" it was "Zzzt! To the > >> Russian front!"" > >> > >> My guess is that "other factors" were involved. > >> > >> I noted with some interest, but little surprise, that the guy claiming MIT > >> required a 4.0 GPA and a 1600 combined SAT score could barely spell, and > >> had major problems making a coherent point. Methinks this is why MIT > >> rejected him, not his lack of a "1600." > >> > >> ">For what it's worth, I wanted to go to MIT my sophomore year in high > >> >school, too > >> > >> "Lucky you. It had been a dream of mine since I was an annoying > >> overachiever of 6. Sux to be white trash, I guess." > >> > >> MIT offered me a substantial economic aid package, in the form of loans, > >> grants, and various campus jobs. What does this tell you? > >> > >> "MIT may be a great school, but they tend to be snooty assholes for the mo > >> part. (DISCLAIMER: Not all MIT grads/attendees are necessarily "snooty > >> assholes", I'm just saying that I've yet to meet one that wasn't.) > >> > >> I've known about a dozen or so MIT grads, and only one of them was a snoot > >> asshole, and it was a _she_, one of the first MIT women grads (and she was > >> _very_ impressed by this). > >> > >> Most MIT grads are perfectly reasonable. > >> > >> Xanthar > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > > > > > > > Jim Bell > jimbell(a)pacifier.com > This thread has no crypto-relevance, but Sandy the Asshole forwards it to the censored list. He also sends crypto-relevant threads to the flames list. This will be the first post in this thread that Sandy the Asshole will junk. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Information Warfare
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"tmcghan(a)mail.bcpl.lib.md.us" <tmcghan(a)mail.bcpl.lib.md.us> writes: > in a message allegedly from: Peter Hendrickson <pdh(a)best.com> > > > The cypherpunks list has been under "attack" for some time. > {snip} > > Some people have dismissed the idea that rogue governmental elements > > are behind some of our problems. > {snip} > > We know that "Information Warfare" is the big thing in the defense > > establishment right now. > > Information Warfare Conference > sponsored by DPMA/AITP > > Washington, DC, March 13-14, 1997 > Crystal City Marriott > 1999 Jefferson Davis Highway > Arlington, VA 22202 > > Presentations by: > Major General Michael V. Hayden, Commander, Air Intelligence Agency > Dr. C. Kenneth Allard, Competitive Strategies > Col. H. Stevens, Land Information Warfare Activity > > - current service visions and planned program initiatives > - operational concepts for 'third-wave' warfare > - information warfare drivers for 21st century C4I architectures > - emerging technologies and systems for information warfare > superiority: opportunities on the horizon > > 'information warfare targets and vulnerabilities', Maxim I. Kovel, > TASC systems management group > > 'information warfare for deterrence', William H.J. Manthorpe, Jr. > Applied Physics Laboratory, Johns Hopkins > > 'adaptive techniques for counter-deception', James Llinas, > technical advisor, DOD JDL, Data Fusion group > > 'emerging threats come in all sizes and flavors', Eugene Schultz, SRI > consulting > > "Information has been termed the 'fifth dimension' in the conduct of > 'third-wave' warfare, and promises to dramatically enhance the role > of C4I as a force multiplier. Joint and individual service doctrine > is emerging for IW, ans is affecting the needs and requirements for > diverse systems: from space-based surveillance and communications > systems to terrestrial image processing, visualization, and > information fusion systems." > > "This conference will provide a valuable forum where military and > industry staff can interact with key decision-makers to achieve the > most current possible understanding of Information Warfare concepts, > initiatives, technologies and potential opportunities. The Critical > Questions to be addressed include: > > - how is IW changing operational concepts? > - how can we defend the weak links in the planned > information-intensive reconnaissance, strike, targeting architecture? > - what developments in enabling technologies are needed to support > current Information Operations, Battlefield Visualization, and > Information Exploitation initiatives? > -what can be done to develop defensive information technology > capabilities? > > and last, but _c_e_r_t_a_i_n_l_y_ not least: > > - how will we move forward to develop a true offensive IW capability > > ============================================== > Many of my f2f meetings with the people on and around this mailing lists were at the InfoWarCon's. It's no secret that my research interests include IW (with PsyOps and DOS). And what was Gilmore (spit, fart) doing there? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by Anil Das 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. Thanks for the hint, Dr. Vulis. I have registered for a course, but seats are available only in fall. -- Anil Das

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No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

May Timmy May's forgeries get stuck up his ass so he'll have to shit through his filthy mouth for the rest of its miserable life. ||||||||||| \~0/ \0~/ < (0) > --oOO--/|||\--OOo- Timmy May

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Re: Deloitte-Touche?
by Marshall Clow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Several people wrote: >I wrote: >>ObCrypto policy: >> Was anyone else besides me amazed by the guy >>from Deloitte-Touche at the Internet Privacy Coalition luncheon >>last week? I mean, he all but advocated violent overthrow of >>the government. [...] > >For the benefit of those of us who were not at this luncheon (probably >not even in the same country), could you please say more about this, >Marshall? What was the subject? What _did_ the DT speaker say, exactly? > After a while, I stopped taking notes, because I was so astounded at what he was saying. (Maybe someone with more complete notes could post a better summary) But, here a brief overview of the luncheon: Last Wednesday, January 29th, the Internet Privacy Coalition had a "policy lunch" in San Francisco. It was in one of the hotels hosting the RSA conference, and at the same time that the conference was breaking for lunch, so it was easy for attendees to "switch lunches". The speakers (as I remember, apologies to any I miss) were: Whit Diffie John Gilmore Kenneth Bass (counsel in Karn vs. Dept of State) Herb Lin (who ran the NRC staff for the crypto study) Marc Rotenberg William Hugh Murray (Deloitte & Touche) and a couple others that I missed, as I left early. Mr. Murray gave a long, impassioned speech. He said that the government is going to crack down on domestic possession and use of crypto, that they were looking to increase their wiretapping capabilities 100-fold, and so on. He was very emphatic about not trusting anything that the government says, and that once they got their "foot in the door", that they would seek to expand their abilities to regulate, etc, etc. He advocated deployment of strong crypto. He insisted that there was no way the government could stop the export of strong crypto. He exhorted people to refuse to obey the ITAR/EAR regulations, and to lobby their congresscritters to get the PRO-CODE bill passed. It wasn't really what he said that amazed me, because I had heard most of it (in bits and pieces) before. It was presenting it all in a package, in an emotional manner, by an elderly, conseratively dressed accountant who was representing a large corporation whose job it is to help people obey the government. [ My father was an accountant. He worked for Deloitte-Touche, in fact. I don't expect accountants to be passionate about government regs, and especially not to advocate disobediance. Maybe that's why this affected me so strongly. ] -- Marshall Marshall Clow Aladdin Systems <mailto:mclow@mailhost2.csusm.edu> Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear.

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by Anil Das 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. Thanks for the hint, Dr. Vulis. I have registered for a course, but seats are available only in fall. -- Anil Das

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