December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

??? wrote: [some text deleted] > > Before I explain what has happened, I want to make one thing > > absolutely clear. Though I've thought the moderation of cypherpunks > > was a terrible idea from the start and am even more convinced of it > > now, I don't assign any blame to Sandy. I believe he offered to > > moderate the list with the best of intentions, and I sincerely > > appreciate his efforts to try to revive what was once a fantastic > > mailing list, even if in my opinion those efforts have backfired. This is the fatal mistake, assuming it's really a mistake. I've worked under several corporations where, at a certain point in time, things just "went crazy", and the owners/ managers were scrambling desperately to plug as many holes in the dike as they possibly could, to no avail. People don't understand why things just "go crazy" at a particular point, and so they accept the coincidence theory ruse, lacking any other evidence. Use your head, folks. This is not a list made up of sewing-circle nannies, these are security people, NSA, CIA, and all the ugly things you shut out of your conversations because you don't want to admit the truth. "Paranoia is a way of knowing". Today I saw an old picture of Albert Einstein in full Indian regalia, smoking a peace pipe with some Hopi people. I thought of the Capone mob and the "kiss of death", or Judas and Jesus, you get the picture. So Einstein puts his name and reputation and personal seal of approval on the creation of the Doomsday Device, the atom bomb, knowing full well that it will be used to murder millions of people. What does he do for an encore? Plants the "kiss of death" on the Hopis, whose environment is co-opted by the mad bombers and their Nazi-infested thug "scientist" cohorts, for the experimentation and storage of nuclear and other hazardous materials. You know, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, all those "useless, desert lands" occupied by the Indians.

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Re: What else do I need for an Internet Server
by Otto Matic 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Otto Matic wrote: >> What else do I need for an internet server? >> HP Vectra Towers 2 each 486 cyrex chips 50 meg processor Need high >> speed hard drives. These are the Tall Towers that have multiple >> drives, these are server towers. >> I think I have a router Hub. And a couple LAN cards. >> That's all I have. But I just got them, and I want to use them. I assume I >> will be using some kind of UNIX software. > >HP does some strange things to their BIOS software - you may want to >get one of those net analyzer tools and some low-level software that >can monitor what your HP's are sending and receiving, just in case. > >They don't normally use Vectras for UNIX, so what effects you can >expect, I don't know. > Dale, Thanks for your reply. Really I'm not sure about UNIX, I was just guessing. What I really need is a B.O.M (bill of materials). What other 'hardware' will I need to round up in order to get this server up and running. Thanks: otto =-=-=-=-=- Otto Matic "Fuckin' A, Miller!" Bud, Repo Man --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Waiting for Mac version [was Re: Full strength Email Clients]
by Joe Chou 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Meanwhile, a beta version of "Pretty Safe Mail" ><http://www.highware.com/highware/PSM/safemail.htm> is available from >Highware in Belgium. It's PGP compatible, and its user interface is a >great leap forward from any Mac PGP front end I've seen. But, it still has >some deficiencies, it's very slow (25 seconds to sign this message on a 25 >MHz 68040 vs. 4 seconds for ViaCrypt PGP 2.7.1), and (as was recently >discussed on a couple of these lists) its source code hasn't been published >or externally audited. I've been testing Pretty Safe Mail on 68k and PPC platforms, and I completely agree with you for the 68040 slowness. But on a Powermac 7600 (604/120Mhz), it took less than 3 seconds to sign the same document. Highware claims that a faster 68k is in the works. They've offereed to have PSM externally audited, but I haven't heard of any volunteers. Joe -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2, by Pretty Safe Mail 1.0 iQCVAwUBMvzAT7WqygGLsQD9AQF+RwP+IbLejl0wMKQzPJmHbIOann+KUB0zsXps 36bjfsyjIYZwkcbhjqCh2lFpljlmeMMVtPX90bPLRb0J+Bgbmcv7h24BN2Q5sInr AFFk4ST07uLZ8ICJzwtkHYgNwgMmdba2QeDQ0SZCH8FYMQiLpkf45TTIIger8MXt Rkkv3V23nts= =MgGH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- | Joe Chou <jchou(a)cgl.ucsf.edu> | http://devbio-mac1.ucsf.edu/joe.html | Bargmann Lab, UCSF Department of Biochemistry | PGP KeyID 0x8BB100FD: at web page or public key servers | PGP Fingerprint [4194 EBC6 EEB0 7B1A F18F 2185 D406 EDFF]

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MODERATION
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, I'm ending my participation in the moderation of the list. It would have been an interesting experiment if list members had been open minded enough to give it a good faith effort. Instead, those who weren't even willing to give another approach a try, set out to sabotage it and destroy any possibility of a meaningful test of the concept. I see no reason to prolong the agony. I've asked John to take me out of the loop as soon as possible. If he can't get that done right away, I'll continue to moderate in some capacity so that list members aren't cut off. However, I'm going to take a break today to help a friend move into her apartment. There won't be any messages forwarded for the next 24 hours or so. Hopefully, John will have things switched over by that then. If not, I shove whatever is in the queue on down the line. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Anyone got a hash, in Java, in Europe?
by nobody＠wazoo.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Degenerate L<avender> Vasectomy K<rap> Of The Moment has been a source of endless embarassments to his sympathizers on and off the net. o_o ( ) Dr.Degenerate L<avender> Vasectomy K<rap> Of The Moment ( | | ) ' " " `

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MODERATION
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, I'm ending my participation in the moderation of the list. It would have been an interesting experiment if list members had been open minded enough to give it a good faith effort. Instead, those who weren't even willing to give another approach a try, set out to sabotage it and destroy any possibility of a meaningful test of the concept. I see no reason to prolong the agony. I've asked John to take me out of the loop as soon as possible. If he can't get that done right away, I'll continue to moderate in some capacity so that list members aren't cut off. However, I'm going to take a break today to help a friend move into her apartment. There won't be any messages forwarded for the next 24 hours or so. Hopefully, John will have things switched over by that then. If not, I shove whatever is in the queue on down the line. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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MODERATION
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, I'm ending my participation in the moderation of the list. It would have been an interesting experiment if list members had been open minded enough to give it a good faith effort. Instead, those who weren't even willing to give another approach a try, set out to sabotage it and destroy any possibility of a meaningful test of the concept. I see no reason to prolong the agony. I've asked John to take me out of the loop as soon as possible. If he can't get that done right away, I'll continue to moderate in some capacity so that list members aren't cut off. However, I'm going to take a break today to help a friend move into her apartment. There won't be any messages forwarded for the next 24 hours or so. Hopefully, John will have things switched over by that then. If not, I shove whatever is in the queue on down the line. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Decision in Karn Case
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Degenerate Vulis K[rust]OfTheMoment likes to be the man in the middle, getting it both up the ass and in his mouth. o \ o / _ o __| \ / |__ o _ \ o / o /|\ | /\ ___\o \o | o/ o/__ /\ | /|\ / \ / \ | \ /) | ( \ /o\ / ) | (\ / | / \ / \ Dr.Degenerate Vulis K[rust]OfTheMoment

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[PICS] Dr. Denning
by nobody＠wazoo.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Destitute L(ibel) Vilus K(adaver)OfTheMonth is so vile because rancid semen is dripping from all of his orifices. o o /< >\ Destitute L(ibel) Vilus K(adaver)OfTheMonth \\\_______/// // \\

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Encrypting ZIP disks
by nobody＠wazoo.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dimwit L[eper] Vehement K[reep]OTM prefers to have sex with little kids because his own penis is like that of a three-year- old. o o /< >\ Dimwit L[eper] Vehement K[reep]OTM \\\_______/// // \\

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Re: Trigger-Words
by nobody＠wazoo.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dinghy L[ily] Vinyl is so full of shit that some of it bursts out on this mailing list. __o _ \<_ Dr.Dinghy L[ily] Vinyl (_)/(_)

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Humor in the oddest places...
by Damaged Justice 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The February issue of the _Pinky and the Brain_ comic, based on the animated television show of two lab mice constantly foiled in their plans to take over the world, has a main story entitled "Mission: Unpinkable". Our heroes intercept a stray piece of microfilm and accept the mission to steal Microstomp's "prototype Internet computer control chip, the 1286 GAK", with Brain plotting to reprogram the chip so that... "When the program is introduced on the Internet, every connected CPU across the globe will download ME! My personality matrix will soon control every computer in the world!" Naturally, the plan goes awry. One wonders if the writers have been following the "key escrow" debate here on Cpunks. -- Explain to me, slowly and carefully, why if person A, when screwed over on a deal by B, is morally obligated to consult, pay, and defer to, person C for the purpose of seeing justice done, and why person C has any legitimate gripe if A just hauls off and smacks B around like a dead carp. (Michael Schneider)

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Re: Enlightened commentary on Netizen.
by Jerry Basham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have no idea why I received the below message. I don't know any of the people in it, and I don't care about the issue. ---------- > From: Alan Olsen <alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com> > To: Anil Das <das(a)razor.engr.sgi.com> > Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Subject: Re: Enlightened commentary on Netizen. > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 10:55 AM > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > At 08:41 PM 2/6/97 -0800, Anil Das wrote: > > > However, the question has to be asked, why the fuck should we non US > citizens go and buy > > cryptographic software that is deliberately coded to allow the US > government to read our mail? > > You shouldn't. > > Maybe someone should print up a batch of "Voyeur Enabled" stickers for all > the GAKed products (or should that be KRAP products, since it is the Key > Recovery Alliance, but that is redundant) we will be seeing at our local > software stores. > > Sometimes I think the reason for all this snake oil we have been seeing is > the Feds need it for extra lubricant so they don't chafe themselves while > getting off on reading our mail. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 4.5 > > iQEVAwUBMvyv1+QCP3v30CeZAQEGigf+PA45Q2ySEZ6iLwc8+fRURvXJRinStWwy > oNGWKDnyYHFJ91L8Z+11oKvMov45CC4MOISy36/Oz2CY9qyq8l5L1wTU7J8CezsS > 3QezDreJtUXr/OCmxRngOQbeHuGDkXuIocfTV7sZU/j7ARWj9hKCd39xf6J/MmZ6 > zjKS7olJmzMMyJrAWaNo5zaW4g/ER8wJiI0zbakvrd/8Y+VJkiTN05znbIfLiOTV > 0Olt/OaX4seWWNwZb5FaPv2y8ST3j+xm4Uv6fdc4Qo8QGWnGpuBAKo0D+q39KNkY > Ps47vKyf2VwQM6Ci49/uuU8um/l9TmDsuHkYYmsoDfsGpcZImEWzZw== > =Prg6 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --- > | "Mi Tio es infermo, pero la carretera es verde!" | > |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | > | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | > |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| > | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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Re: anonymous remailers
by Jerry Basham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I don't know what you're talking about. Who is "cypherpunks," and who are you? Please don't answer...I'm just trying to figure out how I started getting these wierd e-mails from people I never heard about discussing something I never cared about. I truly want you to have a great life...but please leave me out of it. ---------- > From: Mark M. <markm(a)voicenet.com> > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Subject: Re: anonymous remailers > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 11:11 AM > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > On Sat, 8 Feb 1997, Jeremiah A Blatz wrote: > > > Ummm, if you run your own remailer, and don't get lots of people to > > use it, then traffic analysis will reveal that you are the sender > > quite quickly. It will pretty much make everything in the chain before > > your remiler useless. If you send your message through remailers a, b, > > c, and d like this: > > > > you -> a -> b -> c -> d -> alt.drugs.and-other-various-horsemen > > > > and only you use c, then your effective chain is: > > > > someone who could only be you -> d -> alt.drugs.and-other-various-horsemen > > This is assuming that it is a reasonable assumption that all traffic going > through remailer c originated from the owner. If there is one non-corrupt > remailer in the chain before c, then this would not be a valid assumption > because traffic from the owner would be indistinguishable from traffic sent > by anyone else. If the remailer has low traffic, the solution is, of course, > to make it higher traffic. Chain a bunch of messages that get sent to > /dev/null through the remailers, being sure to include c somewhere in the > middle of the chain. If Mixmaster is used, then it would be virtually > impossible to differentiate between "real" messages and messages destined for > /dev/null. It would be a little easier with Type I since the size of the > ciphertext decreases after each hop. This all assumes that encryption is being > used, of course. > > > Mark > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3 > Charset: noconv > > iQEVAwUBMvyzcCzIPc7jvyFpAQHRpQf+LusfAS8dhDczpYTHGjgIRo38gPHeDdVn > +qmmikRNravoEiPD9GIrZ4OeYKOs6zykvhWuMoTtsVi/a7p1HZyWzl5A5KkxofUv > nLOUoPriQ9Ps8fzc3B31G5nwj5d6Es7nnfZbGk1dV5KS5bN7fyu9umBeFiW7jNcj > eTf8GmFH7Rxi5aoUc0uMMR/YffMNl0fHo+wooPNnTBMppLouTIr9iQdCxDOJ7eJc > QAFyEXYWtRP8AqrnB0/pVAXUtrnui+Ev1waOkMYKbWuiQ8tkHbLAvcmpAVnD67jX > 4f3ZQkhXG6C4VbYF3fTlL0ujZgRal0csG0X4u6x/5ID4Blle9hwtIQ== > =BqMW > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >

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Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation
by Jerry Basham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ok...this is the fourth junk e-mail I've received that I don't want. Your account is in jeapordy, and my advice is for you to just stop sending me this junk. Take me off your e-mail list, NOW. If this e-mail from me, being mad at you, is what makes you happy, and is how you have fun, then you just have a personal problem and I feel sorry for you. Do what you can to heal yourself...meanwhile, don't send me anymore...your isp provider is next on my e-mail list. ---------- > From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> > To: freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org; cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Cc: Against Moderation <antimod(a)nym.alias.net>; InterNet Freedom Council <ifc(a)pgh.org> > Subject: Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 10:54 AM > > ??? wrote: > > [some text deleted] > > > > Before I explain what has happened, I want to make one thing > > > absolutely clear. Though I've thought the moderation of cypherpunks > > > was a terrible idea from the start and am even more convinced of it > > > now, I don't assign any blame to Sandy. I believe he offered to > > > moderate the list with the best of intentions, and I sincerely > > > appreciate his efforts to try to revive what was once a fantastic > > > mailing list, even if in my opinion those efforts have backfired. > > This is the fatal mistake, assuming it's really a mistake. > I've worked under several corporations where, at a certain > point in time, things just "went crazy", and the owners/ > managers were scrambling desperately to plug as many holes > in the dike as they possibly could, to no avail. > > People don't understand why things just "go crazy" at a particular > point, and so they accept the coincidence theory ruse, lacking any > other evidence. Use your head, folks. This is not a list made up > of sewing-circle nannies, these are security people, NSA, CIA, and > all the ugly things you shut out of your conversations because you > don't want to admit the truth. "Paranoia is a way of knowing". > > Today I saw an old picture of Albert Einstein in full Indian regalia, > smoking a peace pipe with some Hopi people. I thought of the Capone > mob and the "kiss of death", or Judas and Jesus, you get the picture. > > So Einstein puts his name and reputation and personal seal of approval > on the creation of the Doomsday Device, the atom bomb, knowing full > well that it will be used to murder millions of people. What does he > do for an encore? Plants the "kiss of death" on the Hopis, whose > environment is co-opted by the mad bombers and their Nazi-infested > thug "scientist" cohorts, for the experimentation and storage of > nuclear and other hazardous materials. You know, Nevada, Arizona, > New Mexico, all those "useless, desert lands" occupied by the > Indians. >

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Re: Internet Alert! Pay for local dial-up??
by Jerry Basham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Take me off your list or I will complain to your isp. ---------- > From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> > To: freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org; cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Cc: E-Mail Communications <freedom(a)econopromo.com> > Subject: Re: Internet Alert! Pay for local dial-up?? > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 11:09 AM > > E-Mail Communications wrote: > > > See our "Patriotic Quotes That Make Sense" > > at the end of this publication. > > > "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will > > always be prepared, so we may always be free." > > -- President Ronald W. Reagan June 6, 1984 - Normandy, France > > What Ronald Reagan didn't say (but what he really meant): > > "I come here to Bitburg to honor the fallen Nazis, because I am in > fact an honorary Nazi myself. Just ask my personal secretary Helen, > who used to work for Fritz Kraemer." >

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Junk e-mails
by Jerry Basham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm receiving a bunch of inane e-mails from your domain. Could you please put a stop to it? It's coming to all of my e-mail addresses, including the one below. 2ndSun(a)bigfoot.com------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------Learning to Remember the Future---http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/5335

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Re: Enlightened commentary on Netizen.
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:41 PM 2/6/97 -0800, Anil Das wrote: >First, Rebecca Vesely has a special report, the main thrust >of which is that three firms being allowed to export 56 bit >encryption indicates flexibility on the part of the >government. >http://www.netizen.com/netizen/97/05/special2a.html >To top it off, here are two gems from the followup discussion. >http://www.netizen.com/cgi-bin/interact/replies_all?msg.37387 > >2. 56 ONLY A SLIGHTLY SMALLER JOKE > Ric Allan (ricrok) on Wed, 5 Feb 97 11:53 PST > > If it takes a college student four hours to break > a 40bit code it should take him/her about six > hours to do the same to 56bits. Then what excuses > are the government and its butt-kissing companies > going to give us for not allowing *real* coding? Ironically, we (the good guys) are going to be the beneficiaries of an ignorant public, for a change! We all know that difficulty is not linear with bit-size, but hearing that "40 bits is crackable in four hours!" will be interpreted by non-technical people as a strong level of suspicion directed at DES as well. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Cellular encryption
by nobody＠wazoo.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dimitri Vasectomy K`adaver'OTM is so full of shit that some of it bursts out on this mailing list. ^ ^ (o o) Dimitri Vasectomy K`adaver'OTM ( ) \___/ !_!

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Fw: Internet Alert! Pay for local dial-up??
by IconOfSin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- > From: E-Mail Communications <freedom(a)econopromo.com> > To: you(a)alberta.sallynet.com > Subject: Internet Alert! Pay for local dial-up?? > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 7:09 PM > > > ***************************************** > > INTERNET USERS ALERT!!! It has come to our attention that several > local telephone companies have petitioned the FCC for permission > to charge Internet Users by the minute for LOCAL dial-up telephone > service. This would affect every Internet User, including those > using AOL dial-up. > > For more information, see the FCC site: http://www.fcc.gov/isp.htm. > Please send an E-Mail to isp(a)fcc.gov > to express your outrage at the idea of allowing telephone companies > to charge by the minute for LOCAL dial-up service. E-Mail comments > must be sent by Feb. 13th, 1997. This affects every Internet user!! The question is.... "what can *WE* do. IconOfSin Fly DALnet! /server irc.dal.net 7000 Msg IconOfSin :)

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[STEGO] PRNG
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy May sits at his terminal dressed in five-inch stiletto heels, fishnet stockings, a gold-lame mini-skirt, a purple halter with girdle underneath to keep in his flabby gut, a Fredericks of Hollywood padded bra also underneath the halter, a cheap Naomi Sims pink afro wig, waiting to yank his crank whenever a black man responds to one of his inane rants. < > < > V )_.._( V \\ <____> // ~ <______> ~ > /~\______/~\ // /~\_____/~\ /_\ /~\____/~\ /_\ /~\___/\~\ _/_\/ \___/\__/__\/ \___/__\/

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Re: ISPs vs Bells - Email FCC
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:26 AM 2/7/97 -0500, Derrick Storren wrote: >By Michelle V. Rafter >LOS ANGELES - Regional phone companies and Internet service providers >are waging a war of words over Internet traffic on the nation's local >telephone network and who should pay for upgrades as the online boom >continues. [snip] >In one corner, Pacific Bell, Bell Atlantic and other regional phone >carriers say the growth of Internet traffic is pushing local telephone >networks to the breaking point. > >Pacific Bell, for example, says Internet surfers use its phone lines an >average of 45 minutes a day -- more than twice the amount the network >was built to handle. Heavy Internet use in Silicon Valley led to brief >service outages in that area earlier this year, the company said. This is an "excellent" example of lying with statistics. Contrary to the implication above, telephone switches aren't designed to handle a certain amount of telephone traffic per day; Rather, they are designed to handle a certain peak amount of traffic. This, and the knowledge about the typical usage patterns that communities generally see in their telephones allows a statistician to estimate how much traffic that switch will actually see per day, in the real world. However, change the pattern of usage, perhaps by adding usage to previously-underused time periods, and you could dramatically increase the daily traffic statistics for a given telephone switch. If, say, 2% of the population were to suddenly decide to make 6-hour phone calls daily between 12 midnight and 6am, a time of very low usage, you might increase the average daily usage by 50%, but with absolutely no increase in the peak usage during the daytime hours nor need for new switches. While that's a fanciful example, a similar effect occurs, I think. I've seen a set of graphs showing the typical usage level for the Teleport ISP, and it appears that while usage reaches a level of about 70% between about 8 am and 4 PM, it continues to increase after 4pm, solidly peaking between 8 pm and 11 pm at about 98% usage. This is long past the time that most humans make voice phone calls. The implication is that easily 3/5 of Teleport's traffic occurs after 4 pm and 6 am next morning, a time frame which is definitely post-peak hours. (Traditionally, pre-Internet, telephone usages peaks at about 11 am and 3 pm.) Since modern telephone switches don't wear out, unused call capacity is simply wasted. It makes no sense to charge people more for services which cost the supplier no more to provide. >If, for example, Internet providers passed through an access fee of 1 >cent a minute, a subscriber spending 10 hours online a month would pay >an extra $6 -- hardly a deterrent, said David Goodtree, an analyst with >Forrester Research in Cambridge, Mass. Even that is unacceptable. If an average ISP's phone line was busy 50% of the time, with "only" an extra charge of 1 cent per minute, that would be an average charge of $7.20 per day, or $216 per month, as compared to a typical business line which might cost, say, $40 per month. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: John's: In anarchy -everyone responsible
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:35 AM 2/6/97 -0600, snow wrote: >> At 09:05 PM 2/4/97 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote: >> >on or about 970204:0312 Greg Broiles <gbroiles(a)netbox.com> said: >> >+ Is the desire for an anarchic community at odds with a desire for >> >+ good use of resources? >> Actually, it is quite possible that an "anarchic community" is _more_ >> efficient in the use of resources than some sort of organized community. >> It is explained, for example, that the reason there are so many different >> kinds of life on earth is that there are so many ecological niches to fill. > > Good does not necessarily mean efficient, and efficient does not >necessarily mean good. Since the definition of "good" above wasn't specified, I substituted "efficient." > Picture--if you can--the "perfect" centrally planned economy where all >possible market conditions, wants and needs are taken into account. Factories >are placed optimally for access to natural resources and distribution to >consumers etc. Also assume that the people running this society _are_ intersted >in efficient production methods, and activly look for new and better ways of >getting things done--benign facism/socialism if you will. This would (assuming >perfect people, but bear with me) be the _most efficient_ method of producing >and delivering goods, but it would introduce certain "choke points", one >natural disaster or war could cripple production of necessary items. Let me suggest, however, that in addition to the "choke point" problem, it is also impossible, maybe even theoretically so, for a similar reason "Maxwell's Demon" is. Maxwell's Demon, for those unfamiliar with thermodynamics, was a gate which was postulated to allow the passage of molecules of energy greater than average, and stop the passage of molecules of energy less than average. The net result would have been, theoretically, a separation of a gas into two halves of dramatically different temperatures. However, given such a heat separation, it should be possible through some heat engine to extract energy from this difference, and return the gas to its prior statistical distribution of energies. Was this "something from nothing"? Obviously this appeared to be a serious contradiction, given the various laws of thermodynamics, and it was. It turns out that the source of the contradiction is the false presumption, implied above, that it is possible to identify and thus separate molecules without using appreciable amounts of energy. Perhaps not surprisingly, the amount of energy needed to do the separation is at least as great as whatever amount of energy you could theoretically extract from the system, almost magically balancing the books. I suggest that centrally-planned economic theory may fail for a very similar reason: Implicit in that analysis it is assume that it is possible to do a "cost-free" plan, where in reality costs do occur. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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RRE: Copyright and the Net
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu" 8-FEB-1997 23:44:12.64 To: IN%"rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu" CC: Subj: Copyright and the Net: Is Legislation the Answer? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE). Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below. You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use the "redirect" command. For information on RRE, including instructions for (un)subscribing, send an empty message to rre-help(a)weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:03:10 -0500 From: Dave Banisar <banisar(a)EPIC.ORG> Subject: Panel - Copyright and the Net: Is Legislation the Answer? Copyright and the Net: Is Legislation the Answer? ACM97: The Next 50 Years of Computing Sunday March 2 2:00 PM - 5:00 PM Fairmont Hotel San Jose, CA Sponsored by the U.S. Public Policy Committee of ACM (USACM) Panelists: Hank Barry, Pam Samuelson, Mark Stefik, Gio Wiederhold Moderator: Barbara Simons, Chair, USACM o What is the role of copyright in all-electronic publication world? Will it be replaced by contract law? o Can the needs of authors who want to publish for renown (academics) and authors that want to publish for pay (entertainment etc) be handled in one mechanism? o Should browsing on the World Wide Web of full copyrighted texts be made illegal because people make temporary copies in their computer's memory when they look at a web page? o Should online service providers, including libraries and universities, have to monitor user accounts in order to enforce copyright laws? o Should firms that compile data have intellectual property rights so that scientists and news reporters can't use the data without permission or payments? o How should existing differences in national copyright be handled in a networked world where national boundaries and are little more than a speedbump on the information superhighway? o Does technological protection for copyrighted works inherently undermine fair use ? These and related issues will confront the 105th Congress in the coming year. They will also be examined by this panel, which will discuss controversies surrounding the extension of copyright law to deal with cyberspace. Examples include: How does proposed legislation reflect the net? How much influence have lobbyists for the entertainment industry had in writing legislation? What should be the role of professional societies in analyzing policy initiatives? We will discussed legislation and international treaties that have been proposed by the White House. We will also examine both technical and legal approaches to problems created by the net, as well as how various approaches might impact the science, technology, and business communities. A significant amount of time will be allowed for audience interaction in the discussion. Biographical sketches Hank Barry is member of the firm of Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati and is Chairman of the firm's Interactive New Media practice group. He represents publicly and privately-held companies in the multimedia, software, computer, on-line and entertainment industries. Hank has authored numerous articles in the fields of venture capital, interactive media and technology transactions. He currently serves on the Editorial Board of the Cyberspace Lawyer. Hank received his law degree in 1983 from Stanford University, where he was managing editor of the Stanford Law Review. Pamela Samuelson is a Professor at the University of California at Berkeley where she holds a joint appointment at the School of Information Management and Systems and in the School of Law. She has written and spoken extensively on the challenges posed by digital technologies for the law, particularly in the field of intellectual property. She is a Contributing Editor of Communications of the ACM and a Fellow of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Mark Stefik is a principal scientist at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center. At Stanford University he received a Bachelor of Science degree in mathematics in 1970 and a Ph.D. in computer science in 1980. His current research activities are in approaches for creating, protecting, and reusing digital property. Stefik is review editor for the international journal "Artificial Intelligence" and has authored two books on AI-related topics and a third book on the Internet. Gio Wiederhold is a professor of Computer Science at Stanford University, with courtesy appointments in Medicine and Electrical Engineering. His research focuses on large-scale software construction, specifically applied to information systems, the protection of their content, often using knowledge-based techniques. Wiederhold has authored and coauthored more than 250 published papers and reports on computing and medicine. Wiederhold received a degree in Aeronautical Engineering in Holland in 1957 and a Ph. D. in Medical Information Science from the University of California at San Francisco in 1976. He has been elected fellow of the ACMI, the IEEE and the ACM. He currently serves on the ACM Publications Board, focusing on the move to electronic publication. Barbara Simons received her Ph.D. in Computer Science from U.C. Berkeley in 1981. She joined the Research Division of IBM in 1980; she is currently working in IBM Global Services. Simons is a Fellow of both the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) and ACM. In 1995 she was selected as one of 26 Internet "Visionaries" by c|net, and in 1994 Open Computing included her in its list of the top 100 women in computing. She was awarded the 1992 CPSR Norbert Wiener Award for Professional and Social Responsibility in Computing. Simons founded and chairs USACM, the ACM U. S. Public Policy Committee.

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Re: MODERATION
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

While I ultimately concluded it (or at least the manner of doing it) was a bad idea, I am appreciative of the effort. I hope this won't discourage you too much from trying out other (hopefully better) ideas. -Allen

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