December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Crypto: Job Opportunity
by Carol Anne Cypherpunk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Mining Co. (http://www.miningco.com) is looking for "siteguides". There will surely be a guide needed for cryptography. Pay is commensurate with hit volume, but it isn't too shabby, at about 3K per month after about a year. There is the original posting from Sideman's Online Insider following this post to acquaint you with the particulars. Good Luck to whomever from this list (for I'm sure someone will) takes the aformentioned position. I would, but I'm applying for a different site in the Culture/Beliefs section. On one other note, the PGP Plugin for Eudora is MARVELOUS! THIS I can even teach a clueless newbie! Carol Anne Cypherpunk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Uncensored from heavily.censored.org iQCVAwUBMwAfd4rpjEWs1wBlAQG3YwP/XXgJfqD06KTLfdDfj2mAweBrFAASsRR8 q37l43InJU/AVhRJ0MKkcmxto7sfO1jHNW6O0+0HjrnMRZAmnw7YH806+mCCerUG CeTT5U97Cp/V5Yud6r6f0vqP/BPk8etGIZnGgWKajJ49rFTGlk01AgQz1xE49mmI i962UdPbyVs= =69D8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ========================================================================== Seidman's Online Insider - Vol. 4, Issue 6 Brought to you by NetGuide Magazine< http://www.netguide.com > ========================================================================== Copyright (C) 1997 Robert Seidman and CMP Media Inc. All rights reserved. May be reproduced in any medium for noncommercial purposes as long as attribution is given. Kurnit is Back and Mining the Internet ====================================== "Like Arnold, he'll be back. I've been listening to what he has to say for a long time. If you listen to him, you'll hear how the Web is the way and that the proprietary services are a dead model. If you listen between-the-lines, you'll hear a modified version of that vision. A best of both worlds vision. You'll hear that he wants to develop easy to use, functional services on the Web. Like easy to use chat. Like easy to use bulletin boards. Like AOL, but on the Web." -Thoughts on Scott Kurnit in a piece regarding the failed MCI/News Corp joint venture from Seidman's Online Insider for the Week Ending February 9, 1996. Kurnit's back, and almost exactly a year to the day since the clip above was written. On Monday February 10, the new company Kurnit founded, The Mining Company, will announce their plans to basically build AOL on the Web. I'm not sure about the choice of February 10 as the day to announce this. It is a day with special significance for me. On February 10, 1972 I had a dilemma. I was hungry for breakfast and wanted some cereal. I had cereal, but no milk. So I called my mom at work and asked her if I could run across the street to the convenience store. My mom said no because "the street" was more like a highway and because I was 9 years old. "You'll get hit by a car," my mom said. As you might imagine, I went anyway. And as you also might have guessed by now my mother was right, except no car was good enough for me. I had to face off with a ten-wheeler (it was an Amoco < http://www.amoco.com > Oil tanker.) Twenty-two stitches in the head, a healed broken wrist and 25 years later, I'm still hanging in there. I don't remember anything about it, including seeing the truck. I've always wondered if I was pushed. What I do remember was waking up in the ambulance with quite a headache. But since then, seeing how I lived and all, I've always viewed February 10 as a GOOD day. The Mining Company may not be a truck setting its sights on running down AOL or even other Web content aggregators (even to some degree NetGuide Live), but it is an interesting model. *What It Is* In effect, The Mining Company wants to be the biggest online service on the Web, ultimately offering 4,000 special-interest areas in an integrated, easy-to-use interface. Whether you call these special areas channels, departments or categories -- it's all the same thing. Kurnit wants to capitalize on the fact that it takes too long to find what you want on the Net. He wants to put it all in one place with one consistent interface so that you can easily find what you're looking for and interact with those who have common interests. Each "channel" will have content, bulletin boards, online chats, links to other good stuff on the Web in the particular area of interest. You'll also be able to search a site via Verity's search engine or search the entire Net via Digital's Alta Vista. While they are currently testing another chat product, they have decided to move to the iChat chat client. In the test system I had access to, the bulletin board system was very easy to use, but painfully slow. I'll cut them some slack since they are still in beta, but users will need to be able to move around the boards quicker than what I experienced or they will likely be put off. *And Now for Something Really Different* When Kurnit first ran the vision by me a couple of weeks ago, I said "To me it seems like this is..." "AOL on the Web," Kurnit interrupted. "Not exactly," I said, "It's like AOL on the Web with a hint of Amway thrown in." One of the problems with providing editorial context for the Net is that it winds up costing a lot of money. Kurnit's previous venture with MCI/Newscorp was iGuide. They built a great guide to the Net, but ultimately they scaled it back to just become a guide to entertainment on the Net. You've read the reports all over the place about scaled back editorial efforts and rightsizing. Good editorial doesn't come cheap, at least not when done traditionally. The Mining Company isn't going after the traditional model of hiring a bunch of full-time editors and bringing them in house. They plan to use folks already out there on the Net. Once upon a time while I was at IBM, I helped recruit Chris Locke, of MecklerWeb notoriety away from the MCI/News Corp effort Kurnit was running. While there are many things Chris and I do not agree on, I was very much in synch with Chris when it came to the idea of communities of interest on the Web. Give remote people the tools to produce the content, Locke would say, and you'd be able to easily build hundreds if not thousands of communities of interest very inexpensively. Locke who is now with a hardware company in Colorado will no doubt take interest in what Kurnit and the gang at The Mining Company are up to, because they are all about providing the tools to produce the communities of interest inexpensively! If your chosen as one of its forum moderators (they call them Guides), you'll be given access to all the tools you need to build a site on the service. Now you may be thinking, "Ah, GeoCities does that already!" GeoCities < http://www.geocities.com > gives free web pages and is organized around certain communities of interest. But their homesteader program is not about setting up an all-encompassing online service. And while it is a great place to create a free web page, there's no real business model for the person creating the page. If you build a great site there, GeoCities gets the revenue on all the traffic that goes there. Because it has a lot of traffic, GeoCities can send some traffic to your Web site. But in the end, the model for GeoCities is one to give you a free page on the Web. This is good for you if you're just in it for the fun of it, and good for GeoCities too. I think GeoCities is great, but if I am looking for something in particular, I wouldn't think to look there first. The Mining Company wants to create a space that no matter what it is you hope to find, you'll look there first. *They Call them Guides* The Mining Company wants to create quality communities of interest. And for every community (channel) created, there will be a unique moderator/editor. The Mining Company calls them Guides. It's looking for more than just a few quality folks to become Guides and form their service. Starting Monday, they will begin accepting applications to become Guides on the service. There could be multiple sites about the same thing during the start-up phase, but ultimately it will be whittled down to one Guide/site per special interest. To ensure quality, they'll be a review committee set-up to make sure quality standards are up to snuff, including some folks from the community of Guides. Kurnit believes between that, the natural inclination for other Guides to point out areas of, um, weakness and user feedback, they'll have a good handle on quality. Additionally, there will be some in-house editorial to oversee major groupings (like Technology, Personal Finance, etc.) "The Mining Company is dedicated to serving the needs of its Guides and users," said Kurnit. "We give the tools and support to the Guides to help users find what they want, trust what they find, and connect them with the most valuable sites on the Net and with other interesting people." "This model is now only possible because of the team effort at The Mining Company to integrate the latest improvements in Internet technology and the newly identified needs of users and independent Web producers," adds Kurnit. *Getting the Guides* Will it be easy to get the ultimately thousands of Guides necessary to run this service? "How much talent is out there," asks Kurnit. "We look at the thousands of pages out there on AOL, GeoCities, etc., and the rest of the Internet," Kurnit said. "All we think we need to get is 2%-3% of the talent pool." In certain areas it will likely be very competitive. Everyone will want to get there first. "First there's the application process," said Scott Kurnit in a phone Interview. "You're going to show us your bio and you're going to write some columns so we can see your writing style. If you make the grade, you make it to our orientation process," Kurnit said. The Mining Company places its focus on training the Guides and giving them the tools they need to make a site. If you "make the grade" you basically have 3 weeks (2 of which are the "orientation") to get a site up-and-running on the service. "The fact is, if you can't get it done in a reasonable time then you probably don't have the dedication or time to get it done," says Kurnit. Just how much time will it take for Guides to put together sites? "We're not looking for anyone to quite their day jobs," said Kurnit. "We're looking at about a 10 hour a week commitment to produce the sites." But Kurnit also says that though there will be only one Guide per site, the Guides will be able to line up assistants. *What's in it for You?* So why The Mining Company then? Why not GeoCities or doing it on your own? Well, there are a couple of reasons. One is the promise of exposure, the other is the promise of MONEY. There is a model here, especially if you're not looking to quit your day job. While I imagine it will have to shift its model somewhat, there are some opportunities to make a buck or two for the Guides. It might not be much money, but if you're already throwing 10 hours or so a week towards maintaining a Web page that lines up around a special interest or two, any money is better than what you're probably getting now. Basically, The Mining Company is looking to allocate 40% of all advertising revenues back to the Guides themselves. The real pool here is 30%, with the additional 10% being used for things like bonuses. So, how does it work? Kurnit is looking to get quickly to a million or so page views a day (each of the pages I saw had 2 advertisements. By the end of the year, Kurnit hopes to be in the 10 million - 15 million page views. It sounds a little ambitious, but if they're successful lining up quality Guides, it could become a reality. So let's say they're getting 5 million page views per day. Based on what I saw, that would net out to be about 300 million ads running per month. Lets say ad sales average out to $30/1000 (a $30 CPM). Based on that, you're looking at a cool $9 million a month in advertising revenue. So $3.6 million is in the Guide pool, but only $2.7 million is for the true revenue split. Now, let's say you're a Guide who got one-tenth of 1 percent of The Mining Company's overall traffic. You'd make a cool $2,700 a month for your efforts. If you happen to be a guide in one of the "killer categories" whether it be a parents site or a kids site or a computing site, it's not unreasonable to think that you might get as much as 1%. That would be $27,000 per month!! Some people will balk at the 40%-60% share, but I think that's pretty fair. Where I'd predict the model will have to change, however, is in the cases where the cost per thousand (CPM) view being charged the advertisers is much higher than the average of the overall site. If the overall site average is $30/1000, but your site is generating a CPM of around $90, you're probably not going to want to be paid based on averages. *Will it Work?* In short, I think this could work quite nicely. The premise of a front door that links to content that is all packaged with a consistent look and feel is a winning premise. With AOL's recent move to flat-fee, one big advantage a Net service has over a proprietary model like AOL is the ability to create content far more easily and inexpensively. Much coverage has been given this week regarding AOL beginning to charge its partners in its Company Connection a $55,000 fee each year to participate. Some in AOL are saying its reasonable since the areas amount to "free" advertising for the companies, but realistically speaking, I think it is a maintenance fee AOL is charging to offset the cost of dealing with these forums. I think it is reasonable to expect to see AOL begin to charge similar fees for any content that isn't "must have" for them, now that the hourly charges that once subsidized these areas are gone. There is a cost of throwing in-house support at these online areas and much of the cost is due to the fact that it's a proprietary system. Setting up new "forms" and new looks just isn't easily accomplished by the content providers themselves. So, the timing may be good for The Mining Company. There are at least two tricks Kurnit and Co. must pull off. First, they have to get the Guides. That starts on Monday, when they begin accepting applications. The next will be to market the site in a way that gets people to the front door. Internet of the people, for the people and by the people, it has a nice ring to it... I'm sure we'll hear more about this when the site officially launches in April. For more info, check out < http://www.miningco.com >, sometime on Monday, they will make a lot more information available there than the "coming soon" that was there as of this writing. Member Internet Society - Certified BETSI Programmer - Webmistress *********************************************************************** Carol Anne Braddock (cab8) carolann(a)censored.org 206.42.112.96 My Homepage The Cyberdoc ***********************************************************************

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New group
by Paul Bradley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi all, Well despite the obvious problems of propogation I thought it was time someone actually did something to get us a new home, even if it`s only temporary. So I have created alt.cypherpunks... See you all over on usenet!... Best regards... Paul Bradley

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Sandy hit a pothole in the moderation experiment when Mr. Nemesis > submitted a posting containing nothing but libelous statements about > Sandy's employer. He never anticipated that he wouldn't be able to > follow his announced "post it to one list or the other" policy because > to do so would make him legally liable (in his opinion; he's a lawyer, > I'm not). His gears jammed, and the whole machine came to a halt for > a few days. No, I think you are mistaken. If you take this as a pothole then there was very little road throughout the entire "moderation experiment". At the end of the day Sandfort discarded articles he didn`t like without posting them to either list and routed all criticism of his censorhip to the shit can. > Now each of these posters will get their chance to do it "right" -- > on their own time and with their own resources. As I said, you have dragged the lists name down with you. It is better that you close the list down now so it is no longer associated with a fascist such as yourself. > A large fraction of the list seems to think that "freedom of speech" > means that everyone is required to listen to everyone else at all > times. That there can't be focused, topical conversations in a > society that has freedom of speech. I would say the opposite; part of > freedom of speech is the freedom to choose to whom we speak and to > whom we listen. This is part of what cryptography does: lets us > control who can receive our speech, and lets recievers determine who > the speaker is. This is accepted by many members of the list including myself, However, I prefer to choose for myself who I listen to and converse with rather than having you or Sandfort decide for me. > To paraphrase Zappa, you wouldn't know censorship if it bit you on the > ass. You think you're being censored when you're just being excluded > from a forum because what you're saying isn't interesting to that forum. And you wouldn`t know an anarchist if he bit you on the ass. Toad was supposed to host a list the purpose of which was to allow people to speak freely and without "moderation". You have censored it and you have fucked up. Face it, you are a fascist. > So anyway, I'm tired of it all. I'd much rather focus on getting my > crypto work done than babysitting majordomo, tracking down attempts to > subscribe the entire US Congress to the list, and debating the seventy > or eighty "obvious right ways" to handle the list. The obvious right way to handle the list, and the way you advocated until your greed for power and fear of criticism warped your judgement, was to run it as a totally free and open list. > This is a "put up or shut up" to the cypherpunks community. This is a "fuck off" to John Gilmore. > The next ten days of moderated discussion, through the end of the > original experiment, will give the community a chance to discuss > whether and where it plans to host the list after the experiment is > over. My feeling is that the stalkers who have been trying to shut it > down (Dimitri, etc) will be out in full force, trying to disrupt the > process of finding a new home. It would be very hard to make progress > along that line in an unmoderated list. Cypherpunks-unedited readers > are welcome to try. Eh? - Dimitri supports fully the aims and idealogies of crypto-anarchy as far as I can see. What he takes issue with is censorship, elitism and hypocisy. I happen to believe the same but I suppose that makes me a "stalker". > Sandy reports that he's changing his criteria for moderation for the > remainder of the experiment. It was his idea, and I approve. The > criteria now are: > > * The topics of the list are: > cryptography > setting up replacements for cypherpunks(a)toad.com Add praise of Sandfort, Gilmore (fart)(spit) and Sandforts employer to that. > * On-topic, legal, posts will go to the list. Apart from the ones Sandfort doesn`t like. > * Postings with any hint of legal liability (in Sandy's opinion) > will be silently ignored. So will posts which cricise Sandfort (spit), Gilmore (fart), Sameer (piss) or c2net (belch). > * Legal but off-topic posts will go to cypherpunks-flames. Ie. None, because they will all be "silently ignored" by Sandfort. > Sandy will apply these criteria retroactively to the backlog (of about > 140 messages), which means that most recent criticisms of the > moderation (which don't invove someone volunteering to do things for > the list) will go straight to the flames list. If you don't like it, > I recommend that you start your own list. Soon. I shall, and on topic posts shall include those declaring John Gilmore is a cocksucker. And off topic posts will not be censored, so fuck you. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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Any info on Rep. Goodlatte's SAFE act?
by Aaron D. gifford 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone have any information on Congressman Goodlatte's S.A.F.E. act? Aaron out.

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by chefren 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 11 Feb 97 at 3:54, John Gilmore wrote: > I've come to the conclusion that I'm not willing to host the > cypherpunks list any more. It's not the true assholes that brought me > to this decision; it's the reaction from the bulk of people on the > list: suspicion, flamage, and criticism with every attempt to improve > things. I noticed few people volunteering some of their own time, > money, or machines to help out. Almost all the suggestions were > advice for *other* people to implement: Hm... In the year 1513 or 1514 someone who could be an Honourable Member of this list (if one could be one...) wrote: > There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more > perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, > than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order > of things. <Niccolo Machiavelli, Il Principe> Please stop at looking too much on how people scream about your new ideas and continue this list the way you like it!!! I think it's Your Machine and we have to respect your decision to pull the plug, nobody should blame you for that, but please listen a little to the 1000+ people who don't scream and are obviously happy with the list and respected your right to do the "sandy filter experiment". +++chefren

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please
by mfisher＠ash.nl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please take mfisher(a)ash.nl off of your mailing list

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REMOVE MY NAME
by KENNETH A. LEONE 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

PLEASE DO NOT FORWARD FURTHER CYPHERPUNKS MESSAGES TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS. THANK YOU.

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REMOVE MY NAME
by KENNETH A. LEONE 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

PLEASE DO NOT FORWARD FURTHER CYPHERPUNKS MESSAGES TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS. THANK YOU.

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URLs for public keys
by nobody＠wazoo.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Deceptive Vinegar's aberrant sexual life has negatively impacted his mental integrity. ____ \ _/__ Deceptive Vinegar \\ / \/

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Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, What is the current future of the Cypherpunks webpage? Will it continue to be kept up or is it going down as well? Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Network of majordomos
by Trust Me 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > I sent a proposal to alt.config last night and intend to newgroup > alt.cypherpunks in a week or so Is this a follow-up to your suggestion to kill the list? The list that you stated you were leaving because you don't think it's worthy of subscribing to? Is there any particular reason you want to redirect the future of a list that you want killed and no longer want to subscribe to? Just asking. Trust Me (<--shouldn't this be 'your' sig?)

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Re: Germany Versus Scientology
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Evil se7en wrote: > I have posted a rather lengthy story about Germany's war against the > Scientologists. It was long enough to preclude mailing it directly to the > lists, so I have put it on my web site. You may find it at: The L.A. Times ran a very impressive two-page article on this last week. The text compared the current steps by the German govt. to the steps taken against Jews by the Nazi govt. I happen to believe that Scientologists are dangerous, for how quickly they can ruin someone's mental state. But the article is interesting for the comparisons....

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov <ichudov(a)algebra.com> writes: > so we have myself, Jim Choate, and you who colunteer to host > mailing lists for the distributed cypherpunks. > > I have already created majordomo(a)algebra.com and cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. > > We can coordinate our efforts. Actually, we can even have a mini > mailing list for people who want to participate in the distributed > cypherpunks experiment. If there is any interest, I can create such > a list. Please do. Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

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Re: List! No Way: Creation of "alt.cypherpunks"
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Attila T Hun <attila(a)primenet.com> writes: > tim: > > two points you make: > > 1. the propogation is slow... > > 2. some sites do not carry alt. groups > > are enough to kill an active discussion list. of course, it does > slow down excessive volume. Is there any offline newsreading software for linux? (Something to grab feeds from an NNTP server of selected newsgroups to put in /usr/spool/news/, and something to queue posts for posting via NNTP when on line) (My difficulty with USENET groups is that we have pay per second phone bills over here, and online USENET reading is inefficient, that plus propogation delays). Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

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Re: List for discussing many majordomos
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > At 06:59 PM 2/11/97 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > >We can coordinate our efforts. Actually, we can even have a mini > >mailing list for people who want to participate in the distributed > >cypherpunks experiment. If there is any interest, I can create such > >a list. > > Yes, this is a good idea. One of the proponents of the "many majordomos" > project apparently has plans to impose his own ideas about intellectual > property on the project, and this seems like a pretty serious thing for a > setup that's allegedly going to prevent censorship. We need a place to > discuss this. I have acreated a mailing list, cypherpunks-hosts(a)algebra.com, for people interested in participating in the multi-homed cypherpunks list. You can subscribe to cypherpunks-hosts by talking to majordomo(a)algebra.com. - Igor.

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Re: Germany Versus Scientology
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Evil se7en <se7en(a)dis.org> writes: > I have posted a rather lengthy story about Germany's war against the > Scientologists. It was long enough to preclude mailing it directly to the > lists, so I have put it on my web site. You may find it at: > > http://www.dis.org/se7en/ > > with the link being directly under the large "X." I decided to post it > for the reasons that I know several people who suffered directly at the > hands of the Scientologists after trying to infiltrate their organization > via the Internet. These people will recieve this message due to this > posting. Enjoy. Heh, the top German Gov't anti-$cientoligist: "The state is obliged to protect its citizens from totalitarian organizations." I just love this whole thing. It's like two neighborhood bullies going at it in the school yard. It doesn't matter who wins, as long as it's long and bloody. Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMwFSnckz/YzIV3P5AQH/DwL/aX8VIWcSo7JqQuxL3EgyqOnOyYikRlTh irV8YtXhDlsqbVaZDIPoweE5viibrR0ZrfuCqRm4oClGRvttSJdPxTN5iY5ry+HQ 6HFgT3zWxOH5OSyg/8tz2oVirtCOoGD/ =L0xY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 01:23 PM 2/11/97 -0600, ichudov(a)algebra.com wrote: >linux with 16 MB ram will probably get you through. I have that available on the current machine. If no one else volunteers and there is interest in continuing the list, I am willing to donate the services of my machine. It is running Redhat Linux 4.0 with 16 megs of ram (soon to be upgraded to 32 or 64 depending on cash) and 3.3 gigs of hard drive. It is connected to the net via a T-1. Should be more than enough to run the list. And, yes, i have run majordomo before... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAwUBMwFegeQCP3v30CeZAQEjuAf9HujkexOWErjLRt9cd1CtTo6IosU5UPxW 8ovctEooTql6ZPrAkdHWLATwFnInRdFBNRQeKPGCjdyS1U5VpXCDPrG24gs/BUdm ZQLAT8UdCOiS//vb7IXXUeAgvKT4VciqEfw4Z9r9NawDWA0K93Q+d+5iQ5bYxE72 KmEQHseHL/x1mJZ4x3OlVdUmxdpFeFOmIlu3Ik1L372sRTNgM1r7m1psh6gnr6dp mYIwEs3oG3gz0hwDV2FhdIg7O3xLBg80FWKufYylx2Z+3Ezm1wUArFTaFC4LwIvP 8cRGUucGd8GOanSIjaj8d72JQWgRIDRqtkWv9Tlz538n+SygJZBl9w== =0SlX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- | "Mi Tio es infermo, pero la carretera es verde!" | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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List for discussing many majordomos
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 06:59 PM 2/11/97 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >We can coordinate our efforts. Actually, we can even have a mini >mailing list for people who want to participate in the distributed >cypherpunks experiment. If there is any interest, I can create such >a list. Yes, this is a good idea. One of the proponents of the "many majordomos" project apparently has plans to impose his own ideas about intellectual property on the project, and this seems like a pretty serious thing for a setup that's allegedly going to prevent censorship. We need a place to discuss this. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAgUBMwFm8f37pMWUJFlhAQE4uQf/RfjKd++IRYJZyLPRqsh150098IgMY4oE GITsrs9S4N/mCRzjPUYLDmDKmEkGlN3UilQsMVT7QiPA7vxpw3yvOgWEATXMRWo6 46BRFhKHbKupy6uVCbfrNiXRa76JSdWisxi9NzwJK7jmj5g8SsEJW1Z4pij5VYVJ Ck4mVziejIE/uyQ4hzenbS2ZN+EEApoF5dxVbS5rvlk/HEcUxJMUvuoxXiVm+fFQ gs59X/Yj4WtUCNb6STH89Qwdr2RdtK5yvqvP56cMNudIcdK28K/hiEXWtkCSueLu XU1aa02TQMn/oA24iGYpUF9gnjsGgieIJSx7VB96uE9UsOg6i71mIA== =ILiw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. |

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Re: List! No Way: Creation of "alt.cypherpunks"
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: > At 7:11 PM +0000 2/11/97, Attila T. Hun wrote: > > I vote we just set up a new majordomo with some additional antispam > > filters including knocking out exploding mail headers, etc. I would > > accept excluding non-members as long as we take the remailers which > > are listed with either JP or RL. > > This is a suggestion I have long thought to be a good one. Only allow posts > from list subscribers, and make a special exception for remailers by adding > them to the approval list. Figure if a spammer is smart enough to know what > a remailer is, at least see her traffic for a while. Drop the inclusion of > remailers if volume is too high. A couple of "me too"s: Low volume spam via remailers increases the strength of the remailer net. Yay! Not allowing non-subscribers to post is not a problem is the mailing list is linked to the usenet version. The people who read/post to cypherpunks via a newsgroup interface now can just use the real newsgroup. Also, people who don't get alt.* and don't want to use dejanews can sub to the list version. Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMwF8A8kz/YzIV3P5AQG+UgL+OPshqmTH8uLZw8gj/9OhrJ3qz+h8mo0t g+KY2rlNLgmMP9AJoGszlc02jNOxWKahBMT/tLWztBG4g3/0Jy4IIFMU0gRz9t/2 pRNwig+MHm5EvhClMeva3rhVe/7t0Fz9 =Xaaf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Cypherpunks-related lists on toad.com
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, John - thanks for supporting and putting up with us all these years. How do you feel about continuing support for the cypherpunks-related lists that are also on toad.com, coderpunks and cypherpunks-announce? I'd guess that if we move the cypherpunks list to another machine, rather than mutating it into alt.cypherpunks, the -announce list should probably also move once the new list is working. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Crypto: Job Opportunity
by Carol Anne Cypherpunk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Mining Co. (http://www.miningco.com) is looking for "siteguides". There will surely be a guide needed for cryptography. Pay is commensurate with hit volume, but it isn't too shabby, at about 3K per month after about a year. There is the original posting from Sideman's Online Insider following this post to acquaint you with the particulars. Good Luck to whomever from this list (for I'm sure someone will) takes the aformentioned position. I would, but I'm applying for a different site in the Culture/Beliefs section. On one other note, the PGP Plugin for Eudora is MARVELOUS! THIS I can even teach a clueless newbie! Carol Anne Cypherpunk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Uncensored from heavily.censored.org iQCVAwUBMwAfd4rpjEWs1wBlAQG3YwP/XXgJfqD06KTLfdDfj2mAweBrFAASsRR8 q37l43InJU/AVhRJ0MKkcmxto7sfO1jHNW6O0+0HjrnMRZAmnw7YH806+mCCerUG CeTT5U97Cp/V5Yud6r6f0vqP/BPk8etGIZnGgWKajJ49rFTGlk01AgQz1xE49mmI i962UdPbyVs= =69D8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ... For more info, check out < http://www.miningco.com >, sometime on Monday, they will make a lot more information available there than the "coming soon" that was there as of this writing. Member Internet Society - Certified BETSI Programmer - Webmistress *********************************************************************** Carol Anne Braddock (cab8) carolann(a)censored.org 206.42.112.96 My Homepage The Cyberdoc ***********************************************************************

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Re: List! No Way: Creati
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- -=> Quoting In:attila@primenet.com to Harka <=- In> I vote we just set up a new majordomo with some additional In> antispam filters including knocking out exploding mail headers, In> etc. I would accept excluding non-members as long as we take the In> remailers which are listed with either JP or RL. Were it possible to use Perry's PGPDomo, which would effectively keep out at least the Spammers? Perry? :) Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE ...more info at */ /* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! --> http://www.eff.org */ /* E-mail: harka(a)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail preferred) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBMv/y/zltEBIEF0MBAQEnBQf/UVcg/iFUtR3hMk2zrNwZmweqE4XA3cLy ixfNNGoKO6cP0oUnSrqRoWW4LtMrHamMldBMXmFARmkh3joqgFZpzXSwCbiCSFtv yN7tDOmfzvDfI4gRpohuc7ou3rMMlbjs/lZamJAV5iByE8Kh3/phcvOmb5u9zjWK m/bcLsje39fLpIeMHL3y0jYf4Z5wyvb4dndBVeF+m50IguT9hVd3KZ4hza2XiKQr zPkX1Y2uDW1vq9/m2Wd9PLxnio5hrbOuLHdVFzTUxcVBfnJjMB0rrexW3z/2KqJ8 4V0r3xZXqui5z6k55PQTrVZt9Hqb+zVDoDAAA/tzMfHpVU+MOnM3Xg== =Jtwu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Win '95 disk crypto...
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Forwarded message: In> Subject: SOFT> Encrypted disks for Windows NT In> From: softwinter(a)post1.com In> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 03:13:22 +0200 (IST) In> Soft Winter Corporation, February 10, 1997 released: In> Shade - strong encryption software for Windows NT. In> Shade allows you to create encrypted disk device inside a file. In> Such a device can then be formatted using any file system In> (like NTFS or FAT) and used as a regular disk. The only difference In> is that Shade will encrypt the data on every write operation In> and decrypt it on every read operation. In> To download go to: http://softwinter.bitbucket.co.il In> Soft Winter Corporation, In> softwinter(a)post1.com Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE ...more info at */ /* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! --> http://www.eff.org */ /* E-mail: harka(a)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail preferred) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBMv/y1TltEBIEF0MBAQHJGAf8Cyqr97JIRraQNIS+ioHQiT5KDEozoI5w i7C1pEtMk39WX/dmmcECR561KS3/8595a4mf7bebJ9iS8Bl6ZewSHE6F/oo0biWn rLfmCVIAy23ADoww/rwLXhWxntybjQAr2kObbrPhtf8Um8KlmnJ24QTEWWbhugwx UgC+7N4gRAuxv4Qxoshey1oNeASx7cOQ3Q2REj3wsRq1WPFQMkB43lI5YcMQzlYX KgAoCRRLpnRIOpH5gq6qdC8QNs1cy3gZmfoFML/oqBhn0YaxiAs0Hz7LmlSpufgH +7APc4UpVvadRTTi65APbv1BAJQYq+dGo1fhp7Y+rgFYcEeCh4ZC8Q== =0p9D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Re: Shade Disk Encryptor for NT Registration key
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>SoftWinter Support >softwinter(a)post1.com >http://softwinter.bitbucket.co.il Shade looks like an interesting product, and anything that fits into 64K these days (even if that is the size of the zip file) deserves some respect :-) For cypherpunks - it's using MDC as its crypto algorithm, with 160-bit SHA as the hash. I can't tell if that's the original SHA or the revised SHA-1. The readme.txt is adapted from Peter Gutmann's MDC documentation. The demo version runs for 21 days, and doesn't do encryption, so perhaps the real thing is a bit larger. List price is $149 US. I couldn't get it to run - I'm using NT 3.51, which you haven't tested it on, rather than NT 4.0; it complained about not being able to find Image_List_SetImageCnt in COMCTL32.dll or something like that. Perhaps that's related to not having installation instructions with the demo? there's a SecDisk.sys that looks like it wants something done with it... Or perhaps it's just a 3.51 vs. 4.0 difference. Oh, well... > Shade allows you to create encrypted disk device inside a file. > Such a device can then be formated using any file system > (like NTFS or FAT) and used as a regular disk. The only difference > is that Shade will encrypt the data on every write operation > and decrypt it on every read operation. I assume it's possible to use this for TEMP directories for applications like word processors. I'm not sure I'd want to use it for swap, but do you know if that would work? # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Any info on Rep. Goodlatte's SAFE act?
by Aaron D. gifford 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone have any information on Congressman Goodlatte's S.A.F.E. act? Aaron out.

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