December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: The Science Generations, II
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. May wrote: > Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the > Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing > number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals > of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, > True Names revealed, etc.? This is where I often get a little confused. Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes _I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was allowed to do. In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). My rights are WHATEVER ISN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION, and the government can only, ONLY do what the constitution says it can. ???

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:02 PM -0500 2/17/97, John Young wrote: >Return-Path: cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com >X-Sender: jya(a)pop.pipeline.com >Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:17:32 -0500 >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> >Subject: Who's Censoring Who? >Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com > >Sandy's e-mailed several of us who've sent messages about Vulis's >ploy to put Sandy in a conflict-of-interest bind -- a well-known attack >on moderators of all kinds, not just on the net. Interestingly, I don't recall getting any e-mail from Sandy telling me he was not passing on my messages to either the Main or the Flames list...my messages were simply dropped on the floor. (Others, including John, have said they sometimes got nice Sandygrams explaining why their items were deemed unsuitable for either of the lists. Sandy may have considered it pointless to send me an explanation....) >It's probably worth saving accusations of censorship for the real thing, >after trial usage here for what is truly nasty high-stakes global info-war >gaming. As John likes literary references, recall William Burroughs' warning about "the policeman inside." I can't share John's belief that we should ignore censorship on the CP list (especially messages going to neither of the two specified lists, without notice). Waiting "for the real thing" is not a clear-cut issue, as explicit censorship of political views is not likely to happen in our lifetimes in the U.S. However, "self-censorship," a la the V-chip, the mandatory voluntary labeling of CDs, etc., is becoming the favored route. And the use of the legal system, or threats to use the legal system (a la threats made to Vulis, Against Moderation, etc.) is part of the bullying pulpit (this pun inspired by John's flights of rhetorical fancy). >[Note: Thorn, "cuckoo" and TCM responded to this; none were forwarded >to the cp-edited list, AFIK.] One of the interesting, and utterly predictable, consequences of "silent suppression" of some messages is that those on the unedited list, who see all traffic (for the nonce), get to engage in conversations which are subsequently suppressed so that several of us are having a conversation the main list (and the flames list) are oblivious to! This has had the fascinating effect of having people outside the conversation (as an example, Blanc Weber) gradually figuring out from "approved" messages that something is going on behind the scenes...they they send us messages (as Blanc did) asking what the hell is going on, what we're obliquely referring to. When the excised material is forwarded to them (as I did with Blanc), the reaction is often "Wow! I didn't know." As conversational threads are often so tangled, and become so much more tangled with time, the job of the censor gets more difficult as time passes. Not only must he excise all mention of banned topics, he must also be alert to later discussions making mention of the act of banning, or of the topics. This is territory well-covered by Orwell, of course. The rewriting of history is a full-time job. --Winston Smith Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

drose(a)azstarnet.com wrote: > With regard to chemicals, may I suggest a perusal of the PGI and PML lists > (respectively, Pyrotechnics Guild Inc. and Pyrotechnics Mailing List)? These > are good resources; just about anything you might want is available. > However, they are serious; the KeWl BoMb stuff is on USENET (attn: C'Punk > Newsgroup folks-thanx Dimi--there *is* a difference). > Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff > quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young > fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you > have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy > Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Yea, tho' they kicked me out of school for stashing this stuff in my wall locker, does that make me a bad person, or stupid? Lots of patriots in the late 1700's blew themselves up trying to make explosives for the cause. One person's freedom fighter....

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Re: Cypherpunks afraid of spam?
by Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 aaron(a)herringn.com wrote: > [Fairly prominent Cypherpunk I'll decline to name- I don't mean to ridicule > him personally, just his (distressingly common) attitude] Hey, I can take the heat. But I'm afraid you missed my perhaps too-terse point. > >Just for the record. I will not post to USENET given the spamming that > >seems to go to IDs that appear there. > > [chuckle] > > Just add an anti-spam segment to your email address. > > example: > > jsmith[at]foo.com > It's not that simple. Consider: 1) I stopped learning more about new computer tools than the minimum needed to do my work a long time ago, when I stopped programming and started lawyering. It wasn't an efficient use of my time. 2) Our system here has ONE email system: PINE. It defaults my "from" address. There is no obvious way to override it. I may have the necessary tools and permissions, I may not; I don't feel like taking whatever time it takes to figure it out. We use PINE for usenet and email, using the same config file. There are other usenet tools here, like tin, but I would have to learn them. Again, I have no idea if I have the permissions/tools/knowledge to alter my headers. I am certain that I could hack it with time enough and motivation enough. I have neither. 3) I do other things besides talk to you with this tool. I communicate with students, family and others. I want them to get my real headers. I don't want an elaborate switching mechanims every time I change the person I'm speaking to. > Most people worth talking to have enough of a clue to replace [at] with @. > > if your software requires an apparently valid email address, try > > jsmith(a)NOSPAM.foo.com > > I put a spam-busted address in my .sig and give root(a)127.0.0.1 as my email > in the from: header. Sure, somebody out there is going to be unhappy with > me, but if they have a clue they'll figure it out. Meantime, the SpamBots > are bouncing mail to the admin of the site instead of to me. > > That may not be enough if you're already in the spamming lists. Try > using 'positive' filtering- instead of filtering to eliminate unwanted > mail, filter email from regular correspondents into a 'approved' > directory, and leave the rest in the inbox to pick through later. > > It seems very strange that the denziens of this list, reputed to be gutsy > enough to take on the FBI, NSA, CIA, and White House, would be scared > away from a discussion forum (Usenet) by uninvited email. > > We'd better hope they never figure out Cypherpunks, Guardians of > Privacy and Defenders of Free Speech, are afraid of spam. > > (And supposedly the 'Moderation experiment' is over, so this won't get > kicked onto the -flames list, although it's more ridicule than flame...) > > > > == The above may have been dictated via Dragon Dictate 2.52 voice recognition. Please be alert for unintentional word substitutions. A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law | U. Miami School of Law | froomkin(a)law.miami.edu P.O. Box 248087 | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's warm here.

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by drose＠azstarnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With regard to chemicals, may I suggest a perusal of the PGI and PML lists (respectively, Pyrotechnics Guild Inc. and Pyrotechnics Mailing List)? These are good resources; just about anything you might want is available. However, they are serious; the KeWl BoMb stuff is on USENET (attn: C'Punk Newsgroup folks-thanx Dimi--there *is* a difference). Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Me, personally? I'm glad to have traded the availability of interesting reagents for the "Oppa-tune-itee" of having freedom and justice. (Although nobody "axed" my opinion prior to there having been a reversal in the thrust of gummint regulations.)

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by camcc＠abraxis.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 05:28 PM 2/17/97 -0800, you wrote: :anomalies in the new system, [now the big words!] :given the haste in which they must initiate a new distributed :mailing list system. : On the other hand, they may all be godless communists, seeking :to twist our fragile minds to do their bidding. (Much like myself) : :Toto I recant. You ARE nuts! Alec Niice post. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 Comment: Message PGP 2.6.2. encrypted. Public key available on request or from keyservers. iQCVAgUBMwkMFiKJGkNBIH7lAQHNKQP/dDV5v6wREV37IPkaJTfQqL35c4MyFNfK t4/KmgneKmzGX9uqGzd8Z6kCeRk5vBhAbrhVsqaOhvZouakj2YWe1JbRZWmy+gNR ohY2NERNi0Xm5S1PUrwjQAJutFlw2VV+CZ4GYa/0IV3Fn++GzeZFENbOt6zBTkEZ PsWVhjvoRPU= =3ZEn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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PDAs as alternatives to smart cards?
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With the widespread adoption of an industry standard IR link between PDA type devices, networks and PCs might this not present an opportunity for their use as more user-configurable and application agile financial and communiation privacy instruments? I'm especially thinking along the lines of their use for ecash transactions in conjunction with smart card-type merchant terminals sporting an inexpensive IR link to the customer's PDA. If disk protection programs (e.g., DiskCrypt/PGPDisk) were extended to PDAs ight that not enable them for a whole host of personal applications? --Steve

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Telecom Frequently Asked Questions File - 1997 Edition [fwd]
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: David Leibold <djcl(a)interlog.com> To: Telecom Digest <ptownson(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Telecom Digest FAQ - revised edition TELECOM Digest - Frequently Asked Questions - v.8 8 February 1997 * Frequency of Updates: approximately annual (special updates are possible) * FAQ contributions to: Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org or, dleibold(a)else.net or, aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca Introduction... This is a list of frequently asked questions made in the TELECOM Digest. New versions of the list are occasionally made available to deal with new, corrected or updated questions. Many contributors have made the FAQ what it is today (those listed in the "Who contributed to this FAQ?" question are hereby thanked). Check the Archives... Much of the telecom information that is requested can be found in the TELECOM Digest Home Page, via WWW at: http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives This web page should have links to this FAQ file, as well as various informational files on telecom subjects and the Digest itself. The Archives for TELECOM Digest should also be available via the Home Page. The TELECOM Digest Archives are also available through anonymous FTP at massis.lcs.mit.edu (login as anonymous, mail address for password, cd to telecom-archives). If possible, try to access the information via the TELECOM Digest Home Page first. You can also access the Archives using anonymous ftp at the mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives. Also, there is an email <--> ftp service operating called the Telecom Archives Email Information Service. Anything in the archives can be obtained automatically by email. Send mail addressed to: tel-archives(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu The subject does not matter. Include no text, sending just a blank letter. You will get a help file by return mail and should use that as a guide to ordering stuff by email from the archives. A list of terms commonly used in TELECOM Digest is contained in a "Glossary" section on the Home Page or in the Archives. Try direct inquiries... Direct netmail requests to persons posting on topics of interest to you may also be helpful. In fact, doing things "behind the scenes" can be more productive as the Digest Moderator is frequently swamped with other items. Future editions of this list could include netmail addresses of contacts for certain topics (say for ISDN, cellular, area codes/numbering plan, consumer protection matters, etc.); offers to that end would be appreciated. Where to contact the FAQ maintainer... Suggestions for other common questions, or corrections or other amendments to this file may be made to Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org (Fido 1:259/730) or dleibold(a)else.net or aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca. Note that any or all of these addresses are subject to change or discontinuance. This file is updated approximately annually; special updates may be made as time and circumstances permit. Disclaimer Type Stuff... All information herein should be considered subject to correction or change. No endorsements or promotions of specific products or companies are intended. Any specific references are made for example only, or in order to adequately deal with certain subjects.

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PDAs as alternatives to smart cards?
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With the widespread adoption of an industry standard IR link between PDA type devices, networks and PCs might this not present an opportunity for their use as more user-configurable and application agile financial and communiation privacy instruments? I'm especially thinking along the lines of their use for ecash transactions in conjunction with smart card-type merchant terminals sporting an inexpensive IR link to the customer's PDA. If disk protection programs (e.g., DiskCrypt/PGPDisk) were extended to PDAs ight that not enable them for a whole host of personal applications? --Steve

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by drose＠AZStarNet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With regard to chemicals, may I suggest a perusal of the PGI and PML lists (respectively, Pyrotechnics Guild Inc. and Pyrotechnics Mailing List)? These are good resources; just about anything you might want is available. However, they are serious; the KeWl BoMb stuff is on USENET (attn: C'Punk Newsgroup folks-thanx Dimi--there *is* a difference). Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Me, personally? I'm glad to have traded the availability of interesting reagents for the "Oppa-tune-itee" of having freedom and justice. (Although nobody "axed" my opinion prior to there having been a reversal in the thrust of gummint regulations.)

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > Interestingly, I don't recall getting any e-mail from Sandy telling me he > was not passing on my messages to either the Main or the Flames list...my > messages were simply dropped on the floor. [snip] > As conversational threads are often so tangled, and become so much more > tangled with time, the job of the censor gets more difficult as time > passes. Not only must he excise all mention of banned topics, he must also > be alert to later discussions making mention of the act of banning, or of > the topics. This is territory well-covered by Orwell, of course. The > rewriting of history is a full-time job. Exactly. I hate to intrude, but some of us kids learned that lesson in something called "Sunday School" way back when. The lesson was "If you tell one lie, you'll have to tell another to cover it up, then another and another until you're buried in the lies and your credibility is shot". A related lesson: "An excuse is the skin of a reason packed with a lie".

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Campbell wrote: > > Everyone and his/her cousin has jumped into the void > created when John Gilmore decided to pull the plug > on toad.com. > Has anyone composed a concise summary of just > what the options are? I have subscribed to Igor's cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Jim Choate and Lance Cottrel (?) are participating with Igor and others in maintaining continuity of the list, to my understanding. They all seem to be moving toward maintaining a distributed list which will ensure both continuity and integrity. I would suggest joining one or the other list and then, once the 'dust' has settled, taking steps to verify that whatever list you are subscribed to is operating in such a way as to ensure that there are no shenanigans going on in the background. I, for one, am content to give the new list distributors the benefit of the doubt if there are anomalies in the new system, given the haste in which they must initiate a new distributed mailing list system. On the other hand, they may all be godless communists, seeking to twist our fragile minds to do their bidding. (Much like myself) Toto

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- snow <snow(a)smoke.suba.com> writes: > Mr. May wrote: > > Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the > > Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing > > number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals > > of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, > > True Names revealed, etc.? > > This is where I often get a little confused. > > Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the > constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes > _I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was > allowed to do. > > In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it > restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). You neglect things like the interstate commerce provision, which means that if it crosses state lines, the feds can regualte it. In addition, the court (in its infinite wisdom), decided that "the people" meant the states, then the people. So, as long as it isn't meantioned in the constitution, the states can do whatever they want. Welcome to America, please stay in line. Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMwjGzskz/YzIV3P5AQGKbAL+OA3vfIyutiHrnKXRaydKz0R9hhIinVV3 sSjacpA7MNDxH+bCQhDwqx2WRT89JjKK64nTw+4YF05h3pzl1IV3TD1WNDkt8UIe 5m8Y0LY1v2M5+dGq0ifpKicV8IUkvYar =UsSo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Moderation experiment and moderator liability
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back wrote: > Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: > > Adam Back wrote: > > > [summary of events] > > I believe your summary is very accurate except: > > I would add after the paragraph about Dimitri posting the warning > > about C2, that C2's lawyers sent an immediate threatening letter > > to Dimitri. > Agree, that should be added: > 15a. Dimitri received a legal notice from C2Net's lawyers about > Dimitri's allegations I know this could sound really nitpicky, but proofreading etc. is a big thing for me, so, I personally would not say "legal notice" alone, as it doesn't convey the sense of threat that was very real in the letter to Dimitri. Perhaps "terse legal notice" or words to that effect... > > I would change the paragraph about Tim May receiving a warning from > > C2's lawyers to say that Tim May received a warning second-hand that > > anything Tim would say to support or reiterate Dimitri's claims > > would be actionable by C2 as well. > Let's see I wrote: > > 21. Tim received a warning from C2Net's lawyers that if he did not > > desist from mentioning that Dimitri had posted an article criticising > > a C2Net product that he would be sued! > Tim explained the situation in fair detail in his recent post, > explaining, after Sandy's "Absolutely false." retort to my above > claim. Perhaps my wording could be more accurately changed in the > light of the further explanation from Tim to: > 21. Tim was told by a C2Net employee that if he did not desist from > discussing Dimitri's claims about C2Net's StrongHold product, C2Net > would take legal action against him! Again, at the risk of nitpicking, I'd say "might take legal action...". Just an opinion, I think you've done a really good job summarizing these events.

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Telecom Frequently Asked Questions File - 1997 Edition [fwd]
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: David Leibold <djcl(a)interlog.com> To: Telecom Digest <ptownson(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Telecom Digest FAQ - revised edition TELECOM Digest - Frequently Asked Questions - v.8 8 February 1997 * Frequency of Updates: approximately annual (special updates are possible) * FAQ contributions to: Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org or, dleibold(a)else.net or, aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca Introduction... This is a list of frequently asked questions made in the TELECOM Digest. New versions of the list are occasionally made available to deal with new, corrected or updated questions. Many contributors have made the FAQ what it is today (those listed in the "Who contributed to this FAQ?" question are hereby thanked). Check the Archives... Much of the telecom information that is requested can be found in the TELECOM Digest Home Page, via WWW at: http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives This web page should have links to this FAQ file, as well as various informational files on telecom subjects and the Digest itself. The Archives for TELECOM Digest should also be available via the Home Page. The TELECOM Digest Archives are also available through anonymous FTP at massis.lcs.mit.edu (login as anonymous, mail address for password, cd to telecom-archives). If possible, try to access the information via the TELECOM Digest Home Page first. You can also access the Archives using anonymous ftp at the mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives. Also, there is an email <--> ftp service operating called the Telecom Archives Email Information Service. Anything in the archives can be obtained automatically by email. Send mail addressed to: tel-archives(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu The subject does not matter. Include no text, sending just a blank letter. You will get a help file by return mail and should use that as a guide to ordering stuff by email from the archives. A list of terms commonly used in TELECOM Digest is contained in a "Glossary" section on the Home Page or in the Archives. Try direct inquiries... Direct netmail requests to persons posting on topics of interest to you may also be helpful. In fact, doing things "behind the scenes" can be more productive as the Digest Moderator is frequently swamped with other items. Future editions of this list could include netmail addresses of contacts for certain topics (say for ISDN, cellular, area codes/numbering plan, consumer protection matters, etc.); offers to that end would be appreciated. Where to contact the FAQ maintainer... Suggestions for other common questions, or corrections or other amendments to this file may be made to Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org (Fido 1:259/730) or dleibold(a)else.net or aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca. Note that any or all of these addresses are subject to change or discontinuance. This file is updated approximately annually; special updates may be made as time and circumstances permit. Disclaimer Type Stuff... All information herein should be considered subject to correction or change. No endorsements or promotions of specific products or companies are intended. Any specific references are made for example only, or in order to adequately deal with certain subjects.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: > > Igor Chudov writes: > > Bryan Reece wrote: > > > > > > It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece > > > reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open > > > newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. > > > > > > I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that > > > is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > > > > > > It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. > > > alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the > > > order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to > > > Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). > > > > > > > I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: > > > > :0 c > > | formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ > > sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl > > > > Any objections? > > > > - Igor. > > It would be more mailing-list-like to have the list in a separate, > isolated hierarchy. That would avoid the principal problems of Usenet > (delays and email spam). It is a very good objections. I would like readers to speak up and say their word for or against forwarding the list messages to alt.cypherpunks. If a significant number of people objects (2-3 is enough) I will disable this feature. - Igor.

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:52 PM 2/17/97 -0700, drose(a)AZStarNet.com wrote: >Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff >quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young >fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you >have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy >Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Yes, those nosy shopkeepers should really keep it to themselves! I remember at about age 14 being pissed because I'd been sold _10%_ nitric acid, when I was expecting the 70% stuff! Within a few weeks I was buying direct from his supplier! Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: List of reliable remailers
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Raph Levien wrote: > > information about remailer features and reliability. > > To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu > > There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of > interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: > http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html > Raph, Would it be possible to use your testing program to test reliability of cypherpunks mailing lists? Thank you. igor

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Re: Cypherpunks FAQ
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto wrote: > ISP_Ratings wrote: > > Yes--and given the role Dr. Vulis has played in this matter > > it would be most appropriate for him to write an FAQ (although > > I personally ignore most FAQs). >Perhaps it would be more appropriate for the good doctor to write a FUQs. Why not do it like the Declaration of Independence? A primary author puts the basic document together, and other persons with expertise in other important areas add to it, then it gets circulated on the list for comments and suggestions. "Other areas" not normally addressed in these kinds of documents should include subscribers' awareness that the crypto lists are a prime target of attention from federal agencies, et al, and that much of the material posted could be pure disinformation.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: > > It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece > reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open > newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. > > I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that > is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > > It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. > alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the > order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to > Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). > I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: :0 c | formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl Any objections? - Igor.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Bryan Reece 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Delivered-To: reece-cpunks-raw(a)nceye.net Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:07:25 -0600 (CST) Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com, wcampbel(a)peganet.com Reply-To: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov) From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) X-No-Archive: yes Organization: Bool Sheet Software X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Mark M. wrote: > - Newsgroups alt.cypherpunks, alt.cypherpunks.announce, > alt.cypherpunks.social, alt.cypherpunks.technical have been created. ... Along with several others. > - The distributed list is still forming and so far consists of > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, cypherpunks(a)ssz.com, and others of which I > do not know the location. A mail<->news gateway is planned, but not > yet in place, between the distributed list and the newsgroup(s). It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?).

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by Peter J. Capelli 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

< snow writes > > This is where I often get a little confused. > > Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the > constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes > _I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was > allowed to do. > > In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it > restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). > > My rights are WHATEVER ISN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION, and the government > can only, ONLY do what the constitution says it can. > > ??? ( non-US residents, tune out ... ) This is the way it ( the constitution ) was written to work; however, the feds have found an interesting way around this. Here, in two easy steps, is their secret backdoor through the constitution: Step 1: Take our money in federal taxes. Step 2: Refuse to give it back to us unless we follow their guidelines. It's been done time and time again, "for our own good". Witness the country-wide drinking age of 21 ( if states don't enact it, they lose their highway funds ), or the upcoming welfare "return" to the states. So, while the Federal government doesn't enact the legislation, they have a big enough stick to force states and local govt. to bend to their "suggestion". Sorry. -pete -- Pete Capelli, CNE UB Networks, Inc. pcapelli(a)ub.com ****** Finger pete(a)idaho.ubisg.com for my PGP Public key! ****** They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1759

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Alec 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 05:28 PM 2/17/97 -0800, you wrote: :anomalies in the new system, [now the big words!] :given the haste in which they must initiate a new distributed :mailing list system. : On the other hand, they may all be godless communists, seeking :to twist our fragile minds to do their bidding. (Much like myself) : :Toto I recant. You ARE nuts! Alec Niice post. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 Comment: Message PGP 2.6.2. encrypted. Public key available on request or from keyservers. iQCVAgUBMwkMFiKJGkNBIH7lAQHNKQP/dDV5v6wREV37IPkaJTfQqL35c4MyFNfK t4/KmgneKmzGX9uqGzd8Z6kCeRk5vBhAbrhVsqaOhvZouakj2YWe1JbRZWmy+gNR ohY2NERNi0Xm5S1PUrwjQAJutFlw2VV+CZ4GYa/0IV3Fn++GzeZFENbOt6zBTkEZ PsWVhjvoRPU= =3ZEn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: > > Igor Chudov writes: > > Bryan Reece wrote: > > > > > > It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece > > > reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open > > > newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. > > > > > > I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that > > > is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > > > > > > It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. > > > alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the > > > order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to > > > Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). > > > > > > > I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: > > > > :0 c > > | formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ > > sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl > > > > Any objections? > > > > - Igor. > > It would be more mailing-list-like to have the list in a separate, > isolated hierarchy. That would avoid the principal problems of Usenet > (delays and email spam). It is a very good objections. I would like readers to speak up and say their word for or against forwarding the list messages to alt.cypherpunks. If a significant number of people objects (2-3 is enough) I will disable this feature. - Igor.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mark M. wrote: > - Newsgroups alt.cypherpunks, alt.cypherpunks.announce, > alt.cypherpunks.social, alt.cypherpunks.technical have been created. ... Along with several others. > - The distributed list is still forming and so far consists of > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, cypherpunks(a)ssz.com, and others of which I > do not know the location. A mail<->news gateway is planned, but not > yet in place, between the distributed list and the newsgroup(s). It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com is receiving messages from > cypherpunks-unedited. I assume this means that the other hosts part > of the distributed list are also receiving cypherpunks-unedited > messages. Correct. > - Lance Cottrell is running another list (cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net) that is > not yet part of the distributed list. It is also receiving feed from > toad.com. I will subscribe to it. Now, it is important to realize that Lance's machine is probably much better connected than mine. Once we get connected with him, you may be better off reading cypherpunks from cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net. If you su-bsc-ribe to cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, it may take longer for articles to reach you. > If you don't want to miss any messages, then you should subscribe to both > cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net and one of the distributed list nodes. Since both > are receiving cypherpunks-unedited, you can safely unsubscribe from > cypherpunks-unedited, -flames, or the "main" list. Since these lists have > overlapping content, you should delete duplicates. I still think that it is a good idea to do nothing for several days and wait until the distributed network picks up cyberpass. Then, subscribe to any node of your liking. - Igor.

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