December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa
by ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Re: SSL & GET I suspect that the pass-the-buck syndrome is in full force. If the specs authors should realize that programmers are going to code by them then shouldn't programmers realize that users are going to use their products? The user, the specification author, the browser manufacturer, the server manufacturer, and the content provider all share the responsibility. Just 'cause its in the specs doesn't mean (shouldn't mean) that everyone else can just wash their hands of it. There are stupid users, stupid specification authors, stupid browser manufacturers, etc. If the specs are not secure the user shouldn't use it, the manufacturer shouldn't code to it, etc. OR SHOULD THEY SHARE RESPONSIBILITY? I guess the real solution will come in court when someone tries to sue a content provider who tries to sue a server manufacturer who tries to sue a browser manufacturer who tries to sue a specs author. My concern is that the author of the comments, who works for Netscape by the way, is passing the buck on to the content provider. Its great policy for Netscape, bad policy Netscape's clients. Re: HTTP REFERER Useful? Yes. Entitled? NO. Art Grapa agrapa(a)banamex.com ---------- From: Eric Murray To: ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA; AGRAPA(a)k2.banamex.com Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com; tomw(a)netscape.com; cryptography(a)c2.net Subject: Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa Date: Monday, April 14, 1997 12:45PM Microsoft Mail v3.0 IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note De: Eric Murray Para: ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA AGRAPA(a)k2.banamex.com Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com tomw(a)netscape.com cryptography(a)c2.net Asunto: Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa Fecha: 1997-04-14 12:45 Prioridad: 3 Ident. del mensaje: 8C705E17CEB1D011AF91006097838CEB ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -- ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA writes: > > > Tom Weinstein wrote: > > >This particular feature (the HTTP referer header) has nothing to do with > >corporations "having their way" with users. It was created so that web > >authors could put "back" buttons on their pages. The security problem > >arises when stupid CGI authors use GET forms to transfer sensitive > >information. This is a security hole in the web site, not in the > >browser. The browser follows the HTTP specification. If you have a > >problem with that, contact the author of that specification. Or, better > >yet, contact the web site (as far as I know, there are none) that has > >this security hole. > > Stupid programmers abound even in large corporations. Bugs, patches and > security holes are now normal everyday things. I agree with Toto. > Companies should take more responsability in the programs they produce. No, specification authors should take more responsibility in the specs that they produce. The HTTP spec's use of GET is insecure. Specification writers should realize that people will follow their specs, and should be thinking of security and privacy issues as they are beig written. > >In the eyes of some, the referer header is a privacy violation. It > >allows a site to see what site you visited before coming there. In the > >case of Navigator, we ONLY send the referer header when you click on a > >link. Not when you select a bookmark. Not when you type a URL into the > >location field. This allows web sites to see who links to them. I > >think that's something that a web author is entitled to know. > > NO WAY! The web author is NOT entitled to know where I came from. So if > you go to Sears the saleperson is entitled to know you came from > JCPenney's? If so, then I am just as much entitled to not tell him or at > least entitled to know that there's a sign on my back that says where I > came from. How many web users are aware of the HTTP REFERRER header? Not > many, especially if they have not read the specs or looked at the logs > from a web server. As an adminsitrator I AM NOT ENTITLED to that info. Why not? It's a useful tool to find out who has linked to you. On the other hand, it _is_ a privacy concern, and I don't want to send it to sites I visit. So I included an option blocking the Referrer tag in Cookie Jar, the cookie-blocking program I wrote. I'd like to think that writing it helped push Netscape into supporting better options for cookies (see rfc2109) and into adding this option for not sending Referrer but I'm sure there were many other louder calls for the same thing. > Accept responsibility? Ok, that's wishful thinking. How about not > blaming others? How about warning your users? You didn't do it in this > case. If you do then you can say "I told you so!" Users need to educate themselves. Even a fairly security and privacy concious company like Netscape still has exectutives who feel as though they have to answer to the bottom line and who will sacrifice consumer privacy to get there if they feel that the advantages outweigh the risks. Netscape has consistently led industry in realizing and fixing and admitting security holes and privacy issues, largely due to the effort of Jeff and the rest of their security group in educating upper management on those issues and making them realize their importance. However I am not willing to bet my privacy on Netscape's good will, as it could turn at any time. The way to real privacy is to educate oneself. Demanding companies to "fix it" is lame and ineffectual. You have the technology- fix it yourself! Distribute your code. Make the companies look bad. Educate the sheeple. But asking companies to look out for your privacy is a waste of time. -- Eric Murray ericm(a)lne.com Privacy though technology! Network security and encryption consulting. PGP keyid:E03F65E5

1 0

Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa
by ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

How about: "You are about to send a 'referrer header' telling the next web site about the web page you are currently looking at. Should <netscape> send this 'referrer header'? [Yes/No/Always Send Referrer Headers/Never Send Referrer Headers] [CHECKBOX] Don't ask again." ---------- From: bryce(a)digicash.com To: ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA; Black Unicorn Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com; cryptography(a)c2.net; toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca; Tom Weinstein; Bill Stewart; Mark M.; ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA Subject: Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa Date: Monday, April 14, 1997 1:44PM Microsoft Mail v3.0 IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note De: bryce(a)digicash.com Para: ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA Black Unicorn Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com cryptography(a)c2.net toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca Tom Weinstein Bill Stewart Mark M. ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA Asunto: Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa Fecha: 1997-04-14 13:44 Prioridad: 3 Ident. del mensaje: A0705E17CEB1D011AF91006097838CEB ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -- A million monkeys operating under the pseudonym "Black Unicorn <unicorn(a)schloss.li>" typed: > > "You are about to forward a referer header to the page you have selected. > Forwarding the referer header to this site may reveal more about your web > browsing habits than you would prefer. Should <netscape> surpress the > referer header? Yes/No/Always Surpress/Never Surpress." Minor UI nit: it would be much much better if it said "You are about to send a 'referrer header' telling the next web site about the web page you are currently looking at. Should <netscape> send this 'referrer header'? [Yes/No/Always Send Referrer Headers/Never Send Referrer Headers]" Regards, Zooko Journeyman Disclaimers follow: I am not a cypherpunk. NOT speaking for DigiCash or any other person or organization. No PGP sig follows.

1 0

Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa
by ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> GET forms aren't the only thing wrong with referer, btw. An >associate of mine discovered some prioprietary Netscape information >from the Referer: headers on hits to his website from Netscape >employees, even. Could you elaborate? ---------- From: sameer To: ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA; Tom Weinstein Cc: toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca; cypherpunks(a)toad.com; stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com; markm(a)voicenet.com; AGRAPA(a)k2.banamex.com; cryptography(a)c2.net Subject: Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa Date: Monday, April 14, 1997 2:23PM Microsoft Mail v3.0 IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note De: sameer Para: ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA Tom Weinstein Cc: toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca cypherpunks(a)toad.com stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com markm(a)voicenet.com AGRAPA(a)k2.banamex.com cryptography(a)c2.net Asunto: Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa Fecha: 1997-04-14 14:23 Prioridad: 3 Ident. del mensaje: A7705E17CEB1D011AF91006097838CEB ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -- > information. This is a security hole in the web site, not in the > browser. The browser follows the HTTP specification. If you have a [. . .] > > In the eyes of some, the referer header is a privacy violation. It > allows a site to see what site you visited before coming there. In the > case of Navigator, we ONLY send the referer header when you click on a > link. Not when you select a bookmark. Not when you type a URL into the > location field. This allows web sites to see who links to them. I > think that's something that a web author is entitled to know. GET forms aren't the only thing wrong with referer, btw. An associate of mine discovered some prioprietary Netscape information from the Referer: headers on hits to his website from Netscape employees, even. I commend Netscape for providing users with the ability to turn off referers. -- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-986-8770 President FAX: 510-986-8777 C2Net http://www.c2.net/ sameer(a)c2.net

2 1

Cryptographers made fun of on late-night network television
by Bruce Schneier 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The show is Politically Incorrect, on ABC at 1:00am. This show aired on March 21st (which is the night of the 20th): Here's what Bill Mahar said (it doesn't parse well): "Are there any users of cellular phones here? Because people are concerned (2-3 people finally clap) I knew it was a sophisticated group. Um, no. People are concerned about the privacy you know. Newt Gingrich, what happened to him. So a couple of months ago they set out to make these things a lot better so that you couldn't break in. Well. Put in a new code. Yesterday, a team of computer experts announced that they had already cracked the electronic code. And sadly, none of them knew how, still, to unhook a bra." All right, so it's not a GOOD joke. But still.... Bruce ************************************************************************** * Bruce Schneier For information on APPLIED CRYPTOGRAPHY * Counterpane Systems 2nd EDITION (15% discount and errata), * schneier(a)counterpane.com Counterpane Systems's consulting services, * http://www.counterpane.com/ or the Blowfish algorithm, see my website. **************************************************************************

1 0

HOW TO TURN THE WORLD WIDE WEB INTO A MONEY MACHINE
by house＠savetrees.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

HOW TO TURN THE WORLD WIDE WEB INTO A MONEY MACHINE As a computer owner you have Web Wealth at your fingertips... In a few short years virtually every business will be on the Web ... Don't be left behind... Experts predict that 95 percent of Americans will be on the Internet within 15 years (about where television is today) Dr. Jeffrey Lant, the author of 14 best selling business books, tells you everything you need to know to make Really Big Money on Your Web Site... His NEW book, "Web Wealth" is a fact - filled goldmine of marketing information... If your serious about making money on the Web, this 248 - page power packed book is an absolute necessity... Dr. Lant tells you: *Why almost every business will be on the Web *Why you can't afford to NOT be on the Web *Why you must be associated with and Internet Mall *Why setting up a solo home page makes no sense at all *Why treating a Web Site like a standard print ad is a big mistake *Why the secrets of netvertising generates maximum traffic & results *How to promote your Web Site within the internet *How to promote your Web Site off the Internet *How to build your business with Facts-On-Demand technology *How you can profit from the Internet, even if your running a local service business *How you can profit if your in network marketing *How publications can forget big price increases in paper, production and postage, and make huge profits on the web This MUST-HAVE 8x10 248 page book is a steal at only $27.95 (this price includes shipping & handling). 10 day money back guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied return the book within 10 days any your money will be returned in full. Send your order TODAY... simply write "Web Wealth" with your name and address on a sheet of paper... Send your check for only $27.95 NOW and take the high road to Web Wealth on the information superhighway... Send your order to: Mail House Publishing 403 Nasa Road 1 East Suite 210 / Dept WW21 Houston, Texas 77598 would like your product or service advertised via the internet to over 100,000 people a day call 281-333-0428

1 0

WebWorld 31-32
by Bubba Rom Dos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1 0

[URGENT] Cyclic codes
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Warning: if you fuck Timmy C[ocksucker] May in the ass, a rabid tapeworm might bite your penis. /\_./o__ Timmy C[ocksucker] May (/^/(_^^' ._.(_.)_

2 1

Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Wesley Felter wrote: > If I want to run an SSL > Web server, why the hell won't Navigator or MSIE let me do it > (peacefully) without a certificate? > If I > already paid RSA's ransom for SSL servers and clients, why should I have > to pay Verisign an outrageous amount of money to make clients "trust" my > server > I know that Netscape is making the Internet safe for rampant consumerism > (if you see the blue bar, it's safe to spend money), but what about > secure, non-financial communications? Sorry, the needs of the AOL sheep > to not have to think about security outweigh everything else. While I > think referrers and cookies are useful, they represent other ways in > which the big commercial browser companies want to pave over the Internet > and turn it into the Mall of America. My own theory is that the Great Beast talked about in the Book of Revelations is the Home Shopping Network. The graven image which the Jews worshipped in the the Egyptian desert was actually a Fat Elvis porcelain figurine, embedded with genuine cubic zirconiums. When Jesus returns, it will be on his own WebSite. The only question is whether the server will be in Jerusalem, Rome, or Salt Lake City. The reason Armageddon will be such a great battle is that Jesus will be handicapped by the fact that so many of his representatives have pissed away the major portion of his reputation capital during his absence. The Home Shopping Network, having never had much reputation capital, will be forced to drop prices dramatically, resulting in us all entering a Heavenly Kingdom where we can each afford a Plastic Jesus for our dashboard AND a Fat Elvis porcelain figure for our boudoir. Of course, the above scenario all depends on Jesus being able to get certification as a 'trusted authority' for his WebSite. I hope he brings his wallet with him. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

1 0

Re: [URGENT] Cyclic codes
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anonymous wrote: > > Warning: if you fuck Timmy C[ocksucker] May in the ass, a rabid tapeworm > might bite your penis. This was already discussed extensively on the list in the early days. It was one of the many threads I started on the subject. Those such as Anonymous, Nobody, and others, are merely recent interlopers who attempt to take credit for discoveries by the original list members, such as myself. After all, how do you think Rabid Wombat got his name? Just say "No" to "TruthMangler Inside" We got tapeworms, we're biting penis's, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----

1 0

Re: SSL weakness affecting links from pa
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've written an article on the subject of CA liabilities absent a state digital signature law. Read it and weep. <A HREF="http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/articles/trusted.htm">Click here</A> A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law | "Cyberspace" is not a place. U. Miami School of Law | [still avoiding spam] P.O. Box 248087 | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's warm here.

1 0

DoDeclassifying Crypto
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: DOD5200.1-R: "Information Security Program" January, 1997 Appendix D Special Procedures for Use in Systematic and Mandatory Review of Cryptologic Information 1. General guideline: Cryptologic information uncovered in systematic or mandatory review for declassification of 25- year old government records is not to be declassified by other than the National Security Agency. The information may concern or reveal the processes, techniques, operations, and scope of signals intelligence (SIGINT), which consists of communications intelligence (COMINT), electronic intelligence (ELINT), and foreign instrumentation signals intelligence (FISINT), or it may concern the components of Information Security (INFOSEC) which consists of communications security (COMSEC) and computer security (COMPUSEC), including the communications portion of cover and deception plans. Much cryptologic information is also considered "Foreign Government Information" as defined in Para. 1.1(d) of the Executive Order 12958. 2. Recognition of cryptologic information may not always be an easy task. There are several broad classes of cryptologic information, as follows: a. Those that relate to INFOSEC: In documentary form, they provide COMSEC/COMPUSEC guidance or information. Many COMSEC/COMPUSEC documents and materials are accountable under the Communications Security Material Control System. Examples are items bearing telecommunications security (TSEC) nomenclature and crypto keying material for use in enciphering communications and other COMSEC/COMPUSEC documentation such as the National Telecommunications and Information Systems Security Committee or is predecessor organization, COMSEC/COMPUSEC Resources Program documents, COMSEC Equipment Engineering Bulletins, COMSEC Equipment System Descriptions, and COMSEC Technical Bulletins. b. Those that relate to SIGINT: These appear as reports in various formats that bear security classifications, frequently followed by five-letter codewords, for example, World War II's ULTRA, and often carry warning caveats such as "This document contains codeword material" and "Utmost secrecy is necessary..." or "Handle Via COMINT Channels Only" or "HVCCO" or "CCO." Formats may appear as messages having addresses, "from" and "to" sections, and as summaries with SIGINT content with or without other kinds of intelligence and comment. c. Research, development, test, life cycle support, planning, and evaluation reports and information that relates to either COMSEC, COMPUSEC, or SIGINT. 3. Some commonly used words that help to identify cryptologic documents and materials are "cipher," "code," "codeword," communications intelligence," or "COMINT," "special intelligence," "communications security," or "COMSEC," "computer security or COMPUSEC," cryptanalysis," "crypto," cryptography," "cryptosystem," "cipher," "decipher," "decode," "decrypt," "direction finding," "electronic intelligence" or "ELINT," "electronic security," "encipher," "encode," "encrypt," "foreign instrumentation signals intelligence" or "FISINT" pr "FIS"," "telemetry," "information systems security" or "INFOSEC," "intercept," "key book," "one-time-pad," "bookbreaking," "signals intelligence" or "SIGINT," "signals security," "TEMPEST," and "traffic analysis" or "TA." 4. Special procedures apply to the review and declassification of classified cryptologic information. The following shall be observed in the review of such information. a. INFOSEC (COMSEC and COMPUSEC) Documents and Materials. (1) If records or materials in this category are found in agency or department component files that are not under INFOSEC control, refer them to the senior COMSEC/COMPUSEC authority of the agency or department concerned or return them, by appropriate channels, to the address in item 4.c, below. (2) If the COMSEC/COMPUSEC information has been incorporated into other documents by the receiving agency, that information must be referred to the National Security Agency/Chief Central Security Service (NSA/CSS) for review before declassification occurs. b. SIGINT (COMINT, ELINT, and FISINT) Information. (1) If the SIGINT information is contained in a document or record originated by a U.S. Government cryptologic organization and is in the files of a non- cryptologic agency or department, such material will not be declassified. The material may be destroyed unless the holding agency's approved records disposition schedule requires its retention. If the material must be retained, it must be referred to the NSA/CSS for systematic review for declassification when it becomes 25-years old or older. (2) If the SIGINT information has been incorporated by the receiving agency into documents it produces, referral of the SIGINT information to the NSA/CSS for review is necessary prior to any declassification action. c. COMSEC/COMPUSEC or SIGINT information which requires declassification by the NSA/CSS should be sent to: Director, National Security Agency/ Chief, Central Security Service ATTN: Information Policy Staff (N5P6) Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 ---------- For full document: http://jya.com/dod52001r.htm (315K)

1 0

Online Banking: "MoneyClip"
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Sender: oldbear(a)pop.tiac.net Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:59:34 -0400 To: Digital Commerce Society of Boston <dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu> From: The Old Bear <oldbear(a)arctos.com> Subject: Online Banking: "MoneyClip" Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: The Old Bear <oldbear(a)arctos.com> MONEYCLIP DOES ONLINE BANKING A group of companies has developed a device that turns almost any PC into an automatic teller machine. The MoneyClip, which is a diskette that incorporates a smart card and access software, enables users "to perform virtually any ATM transaction from the comfort of their homes," says the CEO of the Home Financial Network, one of the four developers. In order to use the MoneyClip, a PC has to already be loaded with online banking software and the owner has to have an account at a bank that offers online banking. source: Tampa Tribune April 14, 1997 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from the dcsb list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

2 1

Your Job Posting
by m2c＠idt.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ref: Robo Surfer Can Find Resumes Hi: We saw your Job Posting and thought you might be interested in the Robo Surfer Resume Finder which is your Own Personal Internet Resume Robot. Robo Surfer Resume Finder will search and surf the Internet for you looking for resumes posted on individuals home pages that meet your criteria. When Robo Surfer finds resumes that meet your criteria, it saves them to your hard drive for you to view off-line. You can view all of the Resumes retrieved by Robo Surfer directly in your Netscape Navigator or Internet Explorer Browser. You can also import the Resumes retrieved by Robo Surfer into most Databases. The Robo Surfer Resume Finder is a very powerful Java based application that runs on Windows 95, and can retrieve as many 1,000 resumes in a single run. We would like to invite you to visit our Web site for additional information on Robo Surfer Products. Our Web site address is: http://www.robosurfer.com Or if you like, please feel free to give a call at 914-398-0911 to discuss how Robo Surfer can help with your recruiting needs. Thank You Market 2000 Corp./Robo Surfer 914-398-0911 P.S. If you do not want to receive and future mail from us, simply reply to this message with the word REMOVE in the subject field, and we will remove your address from our files. ROBO SURFER PRODUCTS Robo Surfer Classic Robo Surfer Pro Robo Surfer Research Partner Robo Surfer Resume Finder Robo Surfer Email Finder Robo Surfer Web Content Finder Robo Surfer Custom

1 0

MICHAEL JORDAN AND OTHER SPORTS STARS - SPECIAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by SPORTFAN 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DO YOU OR ANYONE YOU KNOW LIKE SPORTS ? DO YOU OR ANYONE YOU KNOW COLLECT SPORTS CARDS ? HAVE YOU EVER WANTED TO MAKE A SECOND INCOME ? HAVE YOU EVER BOUGHT A GIFT FOR A SPORTS FAN ? If the answer was YES for any of the above questions - we have some INCREDIBLE DEALS for you. ALSO - IF YOU ORDER IN APRIL (Min. $ 50) we will send you ***** FREE ***** A 25th Anniversary 1990-91 Mini BULLS Schedule ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - INSTRUCTIONS TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR E-MAIL LIST - IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST PLEASE DO NOT HIT REPLY. TO BE REMOVED E-MAIL SPECIALSMGR(a)OVERTIMEINC.COM AND ASK TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR LIST. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For years Sports Collectables, especially Sports Cards have been a Multi-Billion dollar industry. Sports collectables have been both a GREAT HOBBY AND BUSINESS for Millions of people of ALL AGES. We at OVERTIME DIST., INC. have been involved in this industry for 10 years. The most important thing we've learned that has helped us and others be successful is: IF YOU CAN BUY ANYTHING CHEAP ENOUGH - YOU CAN ALWAYS MAKE MONEY !!!! THAT IS WHY OVER HALF OF THE PRODUCTS WE CARRY ARE, WHAT WE CALL "CLOSEOUTS". These products wholesale for 50 - 60 % of their suggested retail price. We sell them to you for between 20 - 30 % of their suggest retail price. THE FOLLOWING ARE SOME OF OUR BEST SELLERS (CLOSEOUTS AND NEW RELEASES) FOR A MORE COMPLETE LIST VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT: ------------------- ***** WWW.OVERTIMEINC.COM ***** ------------------- BASEBALL: 1996 LEAF PREFERRED - 24 PACKS @ 3.49 EACH - FOR ONLY $ 29 !!!!! 1996 PINNACLE 2 JUMBO - 36 PACKS PRE-PRICED AT $ 2.99 EACH FOR ONLY $ 29 1996 ULTRA 1 JUMBO - 24 PACKS PRE-PRICED AT $ 3.39 EACH FOR ONLY $ 25 1996 E-XL EMOTION HOBBY - 18 PACKS RETAIL = $ 90 - OUR PRICE $ 29 1995 EMOTION - 36 PACKS - RETAIL = $ 180 - OT'S PRICE = ONLY $ 39 1995 FLAIR 1 OR 2 - 24 PACKS - RETAIL = $ 120 - OT'S PRICE $ 29 1994 UPPER DECK 2 RETAIL - 36 PACKS = RETAIL $ 90 - OT'S PRICE $ 19 BASKETBALL: 1995-6 ULTRA 1 JUMBO - 36 PACKS @ 3.39 = $ 122 - FOR ONLY $ 25 !!!! 1995-6 ULTRA 2 RETAIL - 36 PACKS = RETAIL $ 90 - OT'S PRICE $ 25 1995-6 SKYBOX 2 RETAIL - 36 PACKS = RETAIL $ 90 - ONLY $ 25 1995-6 FLAIR 2 - HOBBY - 24 PACKS - RETAIL $ 120 ONLY $ 35 !!!!!!!! FOOTBALL: 1995 FLAIR - 36 PACKS - RETAIL $ 180 - FOR ONLY $ 39 !!!!!! 1995 ULTRA 1 OR 2 JUMBO - 36 @ 3.39 = $ 122 RETAIL FOR ONLY $ 25 !!!!! HOCKEY: 1995-6 EMOTION - 36 PACKS - RETAIL = $ 180 - FOR ONLY $ 39 !!!!! 1995-6 ULTRA EXTRA RETAIL - 36 PACKS = FOR ONLY $ 25 1994-5 FLAIR - 24 PACKS - FOR ONLY $ 29 !!!!!!!! NON-SPORTS 1995 BATMAN ULTRA FOREVER - 36 PACKS - RETAIL $ 72 FOR ONLY $ 15 1995 BATMAN FOREVER METAL - 36 PACKS - RETAIL $ 90 FOR ONLY $ 15 1995 LION KING 2 - 36 PACKS - RETAIL = $ 60 + ONLY $ 12 1995 POCOHONTAS - 36 PACKS FOR ONLY $ 12 !!!!!! ------------ NEW RELEASES - BEST SELLERS ------------ BASEBALL - ALL 1997 PRODUCTS TOPPS 2 RETAIL - 36 PACKS - RETAIL = $ 72 = FOR ONLY $ 35 PINNACLE - HOBBY - 24 PACKS FOR ONLY $ 39 FINEST - HOBBY - 24 PACKS - EMAIL FOR PRICE BASKETBALL - 1996-7 PRODUCTS ULTRA 2 - HOBBY - 24 PACKS FOR ONLY $ 45 SKYBOX 2 - HOBBY - 24 PACKS FOR $ 49 SKYBOX Z-FORCE 2 HOBBY - 24 PACKS FOR $ 59 ULTRA 1 HOBBY - 24 PACKS FOR $ 59 FINEST 2 - HOBBY - 24 PACKS - EMAIL FOR PRICE TOPPS CHROME - 20 PACKS - EMAIL FOR PRICE UPPER DECK - SPACE JAM 2 - 36 PACKS - $ 27 FOOTBALL: 1996 PRODUCTS METAL RETAIL - 36 PACKS - RETAIL = $ 90 FOR ONLY $ 29 ULTRA 1 RETAIL = 36 PACKS FOR ONLY $ 29 PINNACLE JUMBO = 36 PACKS @ 2.99 FOR ONLY $ 29 PLAYOFF TROPHEY CONTENDERS - 24 PACKS FOR $ 39 IMPACT 48 PACK RETAIL BOXES FOR ONLY $ 29 FLEER 48 PACK RETAIL BOXES FOR ONLY $ 29 HOCKEY: 1996-7 PRODUCTS LEAF PREFFERRED - 24 PACKS FOR ONLY $ 65 ZENITH - 24 PACKS FOR ONLY $ 65 METAL - HOBBY - 24 PACKS FOR $ 45 ULTRA 1 HOBBY - 24 PACKS FOR ONLY $ 45 OTHER SPECIALS: ----- MICHAEL JORDAN STANDUP FROM UPPER DECK ------- IT COMES WITH 2 PACKS PRICED AT $ 2.49 EACH FOR ONLY $ 9 EACH OR 10 FOR $ 79 NON-SPORTS WE CARRY MOST OF THE MAGIC THE GATHERING GAMING CARDS EMAIL OR CALL FOR PRICES. TO ORDER ANY OF THE ABOVE ITEMS OR TO CONTACT US FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT US BY: EMAIL: GREATDEALS(a)OVERTIMEINC.COM CALL: 1-800-425-GAME (4263) FAX: 1-847-564-9684 MAIL: OVERTIME DIST., INC. 1970 RAYMOND DR. NORTHBROOK, IL .60062 PAYMENT TERMS: VISA, MASTERCARD, DISCOVER, AMERICAN EXPRESS, PRE-PAYMENTS, COD CASH SHIPPING: ALL ORDERS ARE SHIPPED UPS AND CHARGED THE ACTUAL UPS CHARGES - BASED ON WEIGHT AND DISTANCE AND INSURANCE. PRICES AND PRODUCTS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WE ALSO BUY - MANY SEALED BOXES AND CASES OF TRADING CARDS - CONTACT US WITH WHAT YOU HAVE TO SELL - YOU MAY FIND OUT THAT "JUNK" IN YOUR CLOSET IS WORTH SOMETHING ------------------------------------------------------------------------ THANK YOU FOR READING THIS - HOPEFULLY WE CAN "WORK OVERTIME TO MAKE YOU MONEY"

1 0

Re: FCPUNX:Advocating Violence
by jamesd＠echeque.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:29 PM 4/13/97 -0800, Jim Bell wrote: > Looked at traditionally, "we" have a > military because "they" have militaries. There appears to be no way out of > this game, and thus in that context militaries could be viewed as a public > good, or at least a public necessity. But give the public a relatively easy > option to exit this game, and that public good becomes a public evil. > Naturally, it doesn't appear that way to the people who profit from such > waste: Government officials and employees, etc. Area defence is a public good, and therefore can only be paid for by charity or by coercion. Retribution, however is an excludable good. Therefore it can be paid for by normal market mechanisms. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

1 0

Not the General Election
by Shift Control 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In this week's Not The Election Issue of Shift Control: "Now that the abattoir bosses have revealed that the real cause of the E. coli outbreak is because cows are covered in faeces, how can we waste time voting? We could save the life of a little old lady simply by hosing down a cow." - Nick Green on alternative ways to spend May Day "Nobody minds people's personal sexual foibles, but it'd be the decent thing if old Piers Merchant had campaigned for the rights of sex workers. Or if Sir Michael Hirst had voted for lowering the age of homosexual consent. Being too apathetic to register my vote even for Reader's Digest free prize draws, I have failed to grill my local party candidates on this particular hot sausage. In fact, my only political contact is the landlord of the pub next to my mother's house, who is the chairman of the Monster Raving Loony Party." - Kate Spicer tries to decide how - or if - she should vote "The Monarch will preferably be of the warrior mentality, with a smart, non-people-based army. Say, for example, 10 battalions of cloned and chip-implanted SAS geezers plus a lot of anti-personnel surveillance gear embedded in any interactive mass media - telephones, computers, televisions. This way the King can not only know and rule his people, he can direct market to them as well." - Robin Hunt assesses alternatives to the liberal democratic system Also this week: Our quiz asks how wild you are about sleaze, our consumer section explains how to eat a liberal, Leo Hickman provides his fantasy Cabinet, plus more antics from Freebee, the rock 'n' roll insect with ants in his pants. Shift Control: incorruptible as ever, waiting for you at http://www.shiftcontrol.com Shift Control is produced by the Guardian's New Media Lab with help from Boddingtons and Stella Artois Dry To unsubscribe from this mailing list send e-mail to shiftcontrol-request(a)nml.guardian.co.uk with the following text in the body of the mail message: unsubscribe

1 0

URGENT
by cm＠subcellar.mwci.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello; "My research indicates the following material is of interest to you. If you prefer not to be on this mailing list, please let us know, and you will be promptly removed." I am on a mission, no I'm on a CRUSADE to educate people that there are no "GET RICH QUICK" programs, only honest or dishonest opportunities. There are also, no "Miracle Products" or "Cure All Products". Remember, what you see isn't always what you get. Anything that has the potential to be a money-earner will take some work, and sometimes alot of work. I (Christopher Miller) started this Company with the belief that it shouldn't be necessary for you to spend a fortune to be healthy and feel good. Also, I believe that there are far too many companies that offer Business Opportunities only to end up draining the Distributors bank account instead of filling it. There are also many deceptive trade practices taking place everyday where Con-Artists take advantage of unsuspecting people. Our products are very competitively priced and Distributorships are very inexpensive to operate. Cosmic Enterprises, a world leader in manufacturing quality nutritional products. With its headquarters located in Iowa, La., Cosmic Enterprises has Independant Representatives in the U.S., Indonesia and the United Kingdom. President Christopher Miller who is the founder, started his Nutritional career working from home in his spare time, doing research on his own value packed Nutritional Energy Formula. This energy product is the result many months of research, shopping and testing. I was searching for a product that would satisfy the need for sustained energy levels, increased mental alertness, balanced blood pressure and blood sugar levels along with antioxidant prtection and improved hormone activity. Not finding one, I started on a quest to find a manufacturing company that would want to do things my way. After many months of searching and negotiations the result of my quest was born. I called the formula Renew because it does so many things. It literally enhances every one of the body processes and functions. If all this sounds too good to be true, it's because we have been programmed by large corporations all these years to beleive that the things we need to healthy are very very expensive. In fact, just the opposite is true. We at Cosmic Enterprises have gone to great lenghts to provide our customers with he most value-packed product that has ever been placed on the market. The pharmacalogical make up of Renew has been very well researched to ensure the synergistic properties of the ingredients were not sacrificed. The majority of products on the market are made up of a single ingredient and the rest of it is composed of fillers. Just to give you an idea of how much filler material weve consumed over the years, listen to this example. Renew is packed in a "00" {double ought} capsule which can hold from 850 milligrams up to well over 1000 milligrams of material depending upon the molecular weight of the individual ingredients, most single ingredient products that are available in capsule form use a "0" {single ought} capsule which can hold up to 550 milligrams of material or possibly much more depending on the weight. Now lets say that this product has 25 milligrams of active ingredient, then why is the pill so big? It doesnt take a mathematician to figure out that most of your money just went toward fillers instead of what you thought you were getting. Also, many of these products come in tablet form, which means that they are capable of holding much more because the pill press compresses the ingredients. So even though the tablet or caplet may be large, that doesnt mean theres alot of active ingredients. There are, however, many multible ingredient products out there, some of them are very good I might add. The truth is though, many products only use one or two main ingredients and trivial amounts (sometimes reffered to as window dressings) for the remainder of the ingredients. The purpose here is not to hold any particular company in judgement, but to demonstrate the difference between Renew and many of the products being bought by millions of unsuspecting people every day. Renew contains less than 100 milligrams (approximately) of fillers and each ingredient in Renew is, according to the most recent research studies, present in effective dosage levels . . . Not just window dressings. That means that in that "00" {double ought} capsule that is capable of holding up to 1000+ milligrams of material contains less than 100 milligrams of filler. There is over 1100 milligrams of active ingredients in Renew. Furthermore, if there are other products that can make this statement, I would like to see that people can still get a good deal. The kind of deal where you really get what you paid for. ########################################################## For More Information Contact: Chris Miller (318) 588 - 4473 cosmic(a)info.mwci.net ##########################################################

1 0

Re: Neo-Nazis indict Compuserve official
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Alan Olsen wrote: > > My understanding is that they were upset about Compu$erve carrying a game > containing such images. (The quote seems to be missing a paragraph.) The > game sounds suspiciously like Castle Wolfenstien 3D (i.e. "Doom 0".) to me. "Those who do not understand Doom are history and repeat the level." Six-Inch Nails

1 0

Filet Mignon vs Spam
by Windansea＠mail1.access.digex.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You're about to discover that not *everything* that lands in your e-mail box is a scheme. If you've been thinking about making a lasting change in your financial destiny, you owe it to yourself to get the FREE facts, at: http://www.windansea.com [x] The *truth* about your financial security, schemes and scams [x] How Safe is Your Job? Take our revealing CyberQuiz and find out [x] EntrepreneURLs: Packed with valuable links, resources and articles [x] Internet Marketing Strategies of the Pros [x] Get your own 3D Home Page [x] And Much More! _/_/_/_/ What the Experts Say _/_/_/_/ " You will be astonished!" --Brian Tracy, best-selling author of MAXIMUM ACHIEVEMENT and THE PSYCHOLOGY OF SUCCESS "Goes much deeper than it's competition." --OPPORTUNITY Magazine "Based on tried and true strategies, that, for the most part, the experts have kept secret." --Author Anthony Trupiano, in THE BEST DEALS IN AMERICA TODAY "Literally shouts professionalism in every sense of that over-used term." --Stew Caverly, STEW'S REVIEWS _/_/_/_/_/ THE KITCHEN TABLE MILLIONAIRE Online _/_/_/_/_/ Check It Out Now, at: http://www.windansea.com ***NOTE*** While we are proponents of sending legitimate information to targeted recipients by e-mail, if this message has reached you in error, please accept our sincere apologies, and kindly send a reply with "Remove" in the subject to be excluded from future contact.

1 0

lambda 3.02 online
by Jerome Thorel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bonjour, Lambda 3.02 edition by majordomo is not yet ready. The bulletin's text edition will come out this evening -- 8 pm GMT. You can access to it on the web: http://www.freenix.fr/netizen/302-e.html This bulletin reproduces the Statewatch (http://www.poptel.co.uk/statewatch) report released Feb. 27 about the global wiretap pact agreed among European Union's 15 members for international interceptions of telecommunications. Archived on the lambda's site thanks to Tony Bunyan, Statewatch's director: http://www.freenix.fr/netizen/swreport.html Privacy yours, -- NOTE If you receive this message, that means you are registered as a subscriber of majordomo-backed lambda list. To unsubcribe, send to majordomo(a)freenix.fr the following command (subject blank - in the message field): unsubscribe lambda-en your@email -- --> Jerome Thorel lambda bulletin Paris, France www.freenix.fr/netizen <--

1 0

Useful utility?
by Black Unicorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've been hearing a lot of complaints from sysadmins who I try to convince to run SSH lately. "Key management is too difficult." "I cant keep track of all that stuff." I think that an interesting answer might be a ssh key issuing "robot." or vending machine of sorts. It might works something like this. User wants access to the sshd running host. Sysadmin gives the user a one time key only good for connecting to the vending machine via SSH. Would be nice if the robot recycled the password every time a successful connection was made. Connecting to the vending machine, the user would fill out a form including the hostnames he was likely to connect from and etc. After filling out that form, the user would be issued a key for the system, which would be automatically entered into authorized_keys. Whatever other automation was needed to get a user up and running on SSH would be executed. Of course, the main problem is that the sysadmin could capture the secret key of the user and use it to create a false login trail or other mischief. This could be avoided by allowing a user generated key to be submitted, of course. Ideally both options would be presented with a "less secure" warning for the former. Might make a nice project for someone fluent in perl, or even a webpage. I'd do it my self if my programming talents were not so pathetic. Comments? -- Forward complaints to : European Association of Envelope Manufactures Finger for Public Key Gutenbergstrasse 21;Postfach;CH-3001;Bern Vote Monarchist Switzerland

2 1

The Ethics of Electronic Information
by Les Pourciau at UMem 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

******WITH ALL APOLOGIES FOR POSTING TO MULTIPLE LISTS,****** ******PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY****** THE ETHICS OF ELECTRONIC INFORMATION IN THE 21st CENTURY September 26-28, 1997 Sponsored By: The University of Memphis Libraries The U of M Information systems The U of M Linder Center for Urban Journalism The U of M Division of Research and Graduate School The U of M Marcus Orr Center for the Humanities The U of M Cecil C. Humphreys School of Law The U of M Fogelman College of Business and Economics CONFERENCE VENUE Fogelman Executive Center, The University of Memphis, Memphis TN, U.S.A. http://www.people.memphis.edu/~operations/fec_list.htmlx Additional Memphis Web Site: http://www.memphistravel.com THE ELECTRONIC INFORMATION ISSUE Recently historian Neil Postman warned against the naive belief that information is "an unmixed blessing, which through its continued and uncontrolled production and dissemination offers increased freedom, creativity, and peace of mind" (1992, p. 71*). Indeed, information and information technology raise a host of difficult issues: Who will be authorized to have access to the plethora of information that is generated by computers in the 21st century? Will privacy, that most revered of American values, be passe, given the power of computers and the invasiveness of information bureaucracy and technology? Will the possession of information mean riches for the possessors, and will those possessors of information inevitably be the rich nations and neighborhoods of the earth? Who will own information, and who will be barred from access to information? How will copyright be administered on the Internet? These are only a few of the myriad of questions and concerns that occur to practitioners in a variety of professional fields. *Neil Postman, 1992. TECHNOPOLY: THE SURRENDER OF CULTURE TO TECHNOLOGY, New York, Vintage Books, 1992. CALL FOR PAPERS The Symposium Planning Committee seeks original research and application oriented papers, not previously presented elsewhere, which address questions about ethical considerations attendant to the forthcoming Information Age. You are invited to submit an abstract of a proposed paper for consideration by the Review Committee. Alternative modes of presentation, e.g., panel discussions, case studies, will be considered. The deadline for receipt of proposals is April 25, 1997. The following guidelines should be observed in the preparation and submission of your abstracts: 1. The abstract should be a precis of your paper and should be between 1000 and 1,500 words in length. 2. The heading should include the title of your paper, followed by the name(s) and affiliation(s) of the author(s), and the name, address, FAX number, and email address of the author who will present the paper at the Symposium. 3. Acceptance or otherwise will be at the discretion of the Symposium Planning Committee. The presenting author will be notified of the Committee decision no later than May 9, 1997. 4. Upon acceptance of abstracts, authors will be required to forward, no later than August 1, 1997, a copy of their papers as an ASCII file, or a URL which can linked to the Symposium site. 5. Abstracts should be sent to: Dr. Lester J. Pourciau Director of Libraries and Executive Chair, EEI Planning Committee McWherter Library 203 The University of Memphis Campus Box 526500 Memphis, TN 38152-6500 Email: pourciau(a)cc.memphis.edu CONTACT FOR GENERAL INFORMATION: Mr. Tom Mendina Assistant to the Director The University of Memphis Libraries Phone: 901/678-4310 Fax: 901/678-8218 E-mail: tmendina(a)cc.memphis.edu LODGING Fogelman Executive Center Hotel $65 for one person; $10 per additional person 901/678-5410 Ridgeway Inn $76 for one person Complimentary airport shuttle 901/766-4000 REGISTRATION To register for symposium attendance only or paper presentations, complete the form BELOW and mail it for receipt no later than August 30, 1997 to: THE UNIVERSITY OF MEMPHIS P.O. BOX 1000, DEPT. 313 MEMPHIS TN 38148-0313 U.S.A. ----DETACH-------DETACH-------DETACH-------DETACH-------DETACH------DETACH----- THE UNIVERSITY OF MEMPHIS SYMPOSIUM ON THE ETHICS OF ELECTRONIC INFORMATION IN THE 21st CENTURY September 26-28, 1997 FOGELMAN EXECUTIVE CENTER THE UNIVERSITY OF MEMPHIS REGISTRATION FORM Make checks payable to: The University of Memphis FAX NUMBER 901-678-2272 For VISA/MASTERCARD/DISCOVER Card number____________________________________ Expiration Date_________________________________ Signature of cardholder_________________________ FEES (includes breakfasts, lunches, and Friday evening cocktails and banquet) Attendance only: $150 Presenters: $100 Students $50 Late Fee: $50 added to any remittance after August 30, 1997 NAME_______________________________________________________________ ADDRESS____________________________________________________________ CITY_______________________________________________________________ STATE__________________________________________ZIP_________________ COUNTRY____________________________________________________________ ORGANIZATION/AFFILIATION___________________________________________ POSITION/TITLE_____________________________________________________ TELEPHONE__________________________________________________________ FAX________________________________________________________________ E-MAIL_____________________________________________________________ Receipt #_______________(for UofM Office use only)

1 0

Re: FCC to take control of the Net? Domain names and addresses...
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Rich Graves wrote: > >NSF... FNC-AC... IANA... ARIN... IP... NSI... IAHC... RIPE... FCC... > > There was a W3C IP BOF at WWW6 wherein this stuff was discussed. > JM said they'd have a POV PDQ. Suggest you check out the WG WWW > page ASAP. BT, DT. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

1 0

What's good for the goose...
by Chris DiBona 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello all... I was thinking about some things....like many other people, I really dislike junk email. How they get email addresses to send to is no mystery. So here's the idea. We've started seeing people change their email return addresses so that they can avoid spam. I've got a better idea. Make your return address "wallace(a)cyberpromo.com" , that's right... Good old spamford wallaces email address needs a little traffic. You'll want to change your SIG so that people don't freak out on you. IN FACT, and although I WOULD never RECCOMMEND THIS. (notice the enunciation...'nuf said) I would be tempted, if I had the time of course, to subscribe the freak to as many lists as I could find, but of course I would never do such a thing, as that might at the very least make his communication links kind of active, bringing up the price of doing business for him. Just a little idea.... Chris DiBona PS: Of course I would never do such a thing myself. This is information and ideas provided for your entertainment only...uh huh...that's right...for sure ;-)

3 2

URGENT
by cm＠subcellar.mwci.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello; "My research indicates the following material is of interest to you. If you prefer not to be on this mailing list, please let us know, and you will be promptly removed." I am on a mission, no I'm on a CRUSADE to educate people that there are no "GET RICH QUICK" programs, only honest or dishonest opportunities. There are also, no "Miracle Products" or "Cure All Products". Remember, what you see isn't always what you get. Anything that has the potential to be a money-earner will take some work, and sometimes alot of work. I (Christopher Miller) started this Company with the belief that it shouldn't be necessary for you to spend a fortune to be healthy and feel good. Also, I believe that there are far too many companies that offer Business Opportunities only to end up draining the Distributors bank account instead of filling it. There are also many deceptive trade practices taking place everyday where Con-Artists take advantage of unsuspecting people. Our products are very competitively priced and Distributorships are very inexpensive to operate. Cosmic Enterprises, a world leader in manufacturing quality nutritional products. With its headquarters located in Iowa, La., Cosmic Enterprises has Independant Representatives in the U.S., Indonesia and the United Kingdom. President Christopher Miller who is the founder, started his Nutritional career working from home in his spare time, doing research on his own value packed Nutritional Energy Formula. This energy product is the result many months of research, shopping and testing. I was searching for a product that would satisfy the need for sustained energy levels, increased mental alertness, balanced blood pressure and blood sugar levels along with antioxidant prtection and improved hormone activity. Not finding one, I started on a quest to find a manufacturing company that would want to do things my way. After many months of searching and negotiations the result of my quest was born. I called the formula Renew because it does so many things. It literally enhances every one of the body processes and functions. If all this sounds too good to be true, it's because we have been programmed by large corporations all these years to beleive that the things we need to healthy are very very expensive. In fact, just the opposite is true. We at Cosmic Enterprises have gone to great lenghts to provide our customers with he most value-packed product that has ever been placed on the market. The pharmacalogical make up of Renew has been very well researched to ensure the synergistic properties of the ingredients were not sacrificed. The majority of products on the market are made up of a single ingredient and the rest of it is composed of fillers. Just to give you an idea of how much filler material weve consumed over the years, listen to this example. Renew is packed in a "00" {double ought} capsule which can hold from 850 milligrams up to well over 1000 milligrams of material depending upon the molecular weight of the individual ingredients, most single ingredient products that are available in capsule form use a "0" {single ought} capsule which can hold up to 550 milligrams of material or possibly much more depending on the weight. Now lets say that this product has 25 milligrams of active ingredient, then why is the pill so big? It doesnt take a mathematician to figure out that most of your money just went toward fillers instead of what you thought you were getting. Also, many of these products come in tablet form, which means that they are capable of holding much more because the pill press compresses the ingredients. So even though the tablet or caplet may be large, that doesnt mean theres alot of active ingredients. There are, however, many multible ingredient products out there, some of them are very good I might add. The truth is though, many products only use one or two main ingredients and trivial amounts (sometimes reffered to as window dressings) for the remainder of the ingredients. The purpose here is not to hold any particular company in judgement, but to demonstrate the difference between Renew and many of the products being bought by millions of unsuspecting people every day. Renew contains less than 100 milligrams (approximately) of fillers and each ingredient in Renew is, according to the most recent research studies, present in effective dosage levels . . . Not just window dressings. That means that in that "00" {double ought} capsule that is capable of holding up to 1000+ milligrams of material contains less than 100 milligrams of filler. There is over 1100 milligrams of active ingredients in Renew. Furthermore, if there are other products that can make this statement, I would like to see that people can still get a good deal. The kind of deal where you really get what you paid for. ########################################################## For More Information Contact: Chris Miller (318) 588 - 4473 cosmic(a)info.mwci.net ##########################################################

1 0