December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: KC post per Alec
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

snow <snow(a)smoke.suba.com> writes: > Crispin: > > Personally, I am in favor of absolute personal privacy, but I don't > > define that to include economic dealings -- as far as I am concerned, > > business or economic privacy is at a lower level of concern than > > personal privacy. This puts me at odds with the prevailing > > What's the difference? > > I suppose (and I'm no mind reader) that Kent feels that who you fuck/suck (for kicks, not for money) is your business, but what you do for a living is the gubmint's business. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Grumpy Old Cypherpunks
by David Gilchrist 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:31 AM 4/11/97 CST, TruthMangler wrote: >Kent Crispin wrote: >> >> Toto, thanks for your thoughtful comments. Your touching defense of >> Tim is interesting. <yammeryammersnip> >> list. Like most people, I tend to respond in kind. > > This list is one of the few places where the dogs still bark (and >bite, as well). Smarmy "gumming" of the logic and opinions of others >on this list will not get you many doggie bones. I like that. Bite me. > My personal pet peeve is the fucking happy faces that abound in >posts everywhere. If you can't figure out whether a comment is an >insult or humor, then take it as an insult, because any professed >difference between the two is only an illusion. I like that, too. Happy face me. > I suppose that it is only a matter of time before I walk into a >happy-face factory and start blowing people away at random. A barking >gun is only the final result of years of govement and societal >suppression of our natural instinct to bark loud and long when >intruders invade our personal space. You must work for the post office. Shoot me. >TruthMangler > >

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Jim Bell / Columbian News Articles
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A variety of articles on Jim Bell are available at: http://www.columbian.com -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: A rant about economic distortions
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May, sounding much like 'The Bok', which is not hard for rational people to do these days, wrote: > And Big Brother gets more intrusive every year. A person like me who wants > to hire some Mexicans for work out at my house faces a triple whammy. > > First, I'm supposed to fill out various forms to hire them And so long as folks > aren't in line to become Attorney General, or the Feds are not looking for > an excuse to bust them, this ignoring the reporting laws is probably not > too dangerous. The purpose of many laws seems to be to ensure that anyone, anywhere, at any time, is breaking at least a few of them, in case the government chooses to come after them. > Second, I'm supposed to verify the "right to work" of any applicant. I'm > supposed to demand documentation, and to somehow be able to detect > forgeries. Thus, anyone who is not Houdini, or who doesn't have access to the same records/databases as covert government agencies, is probably committing criminal actions without knowing it. > Third, I'd better watch what questions I ask, though. Gotcha either way, don't they? > There are other whammies, too. Tim gives an example, but he would have to fill an entire book in order to cover a even a modicum of situations applicable to the average person. > (Somewhere along the line we lost the right to hire and fire whom we chose > to. Now all such decisions must be documented, and produced on demand. The safest route is to fire the white guy. Anything else is an obvious act of discrimination. (I am not making any claim that the reverse has not been the case in the past, but only that the situation is equally as evil in either situation. 'Revenge' does not equate to 'Justice'.) > Used to be that the economy had plenty of "niches" for people unable or > unwilling to compete for more demanding/mechanical/factory jobs...the > aforementioned handymen and maids, etc. I know a businessman who had to lay off twenty disabled/retarded employees because he couldn't afford the cost of defending himself against charges that he was somehow taking advantage of them. They kept showing up for work, however, so he turned to me to set up a system whereby he could reward them for their 'volunteer' work. Now, even that is being challenged, even though their lives are immeasurably better as a result of his effort to enable them to be productive, functional members of society. > In my view, this was a more natural, normal, almost "tribal" way of living. > Those with lesser mental or ambition skills could still do something of use > for those who worked hard or had skills in demand. The fact of the matter is, many who have become 'rich' have done so by working night and day, as well as going broke a number of times, with no more resources to work with than those who choose to squander their own resources on drink, drugs and wanton living (Trust me, I am somewhat of an expert in the latter.) > The further result: those who can't fit into jobs worthy of minimum wage > (which is actually more than the official rate, given the need for tax > accountants to manage them, forms to be kept current, training to be given > because the public schools failed, insurance, etc.) are unemployable. Then > the State steps in and pays them not to work. At the tender age of 19, I received massive amounts of electroshock and given a lifetime pass to government assistance as a person who would never be fit to work in even the simplest of positions. Since that time, I have worked in a multitude of fields, including becoming a recording artist, mob figure, and president of a computer company. (None of which negates the fact that I am, indeed, crazy as a fucking loon.) In my mind, those stuck in the social welfare-state are not in any way different from those stuck in the corporate welfare-state. They have all bought into the government world-view and are merely pawns in different aspects of the game. I see no real difference in the ghetto resident who is paid not to work, and the Congressman who is paid not to grow cotton on his plantation. > Here in Kalifornia, garbage is strewn around the freeways. Convicts no > longer are sent out (though drunk drivers, being politically incorrect, > sometimes are). Nor are welfare recipients sent out to pick up garbage. No, > this would all be demeaning. Better to have CalTrans employees do the work. > Oh, and these CalTrans "transportation engineers" have starting salaries of > $32,000 a year. A bit high for garbage collectors, but, hey, if it was any > lower they could go on welfare and make just as much. This is how skewed > our economy has become, thanks to government meddling in economic > transactions. Some of those who see the world from this realistic viewpoint walk into a Denny's and blow people away, for no apparent reason. Some join an organization to 'change' things. Others write letters to the CypherPunks list. Some just change their name to Nero, and learn to play the violin. Still others, making their mark in the world as movers and shakers in the burgeoning world of eca$h, come to their senses and realize that the safest harbor of reality, in the midst of madness, is in the center of the storm, and they post messages saying, "I *love* this list." > Other rants are obvious, such as why in 48 out of the 50 states a person on > welfare earns the equivalent of $1500 or more a month, far, far higher than > minimum wage....in other words, the taxpaying shlubs working for $5.75 an > hour at Taco Bell are subsidizing others to stay at home watching t.v. and > smoking crack and getting paid more than they're making.... > For most American coloreds, the situation is hopeless until welfare as we > know it is ended. (And people are free to engage in economic transactions > of their choosing.) Some innocents will suffer, of course. But there's no > other way. It is just as hopeless for those 'in power'. We are all trapped on a runaway train, trying desperately to hang on, in the mistaken notion that someone is 'in control' of the situation, and will soon find some way to 'fix' it. Bad news, Bubba--the 'train' is in control, and there is no one at the wheel. I could go on and on, but I'm running low on Crayolas. It is getting harder and harder to find the 'old' colors, and the 'new' colors are part of the plot against me. Everyone at the 'home' says, "Hi!" -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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german crypto laws
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- This is a press release of the german Forum of Computer Professionals for Peace and Social Responsibility (FIfF). It discusses the crypto-proposals of the german government, which are similar to the UK and US proposals. Please note, that this is my own "unofficial" translation of it. All phrases in [] are either my additional comments or are phrases, that I couldn't translate directly. If you want the original german text, e-mail me. Ciao Harka ==================================================================== P R E S S R E L E A S E of the Forum of computer professionals for peace and social responsibility Bonn, in April, 1997 Cryptography proposals reverse constitutional rights The Forum of computer professional for peace and social responsibility declare the following to the recently made-public plans and intentions to regulate cryptography internationally and nationally: Very obvious are the efforts to the regulation of cryptography. After several tries guide lines to crypto-politics were worked out at the end of march by the OECD[1]. Almost simultaneously plans from the United States[2] and the United Kingdom[3] for new national crypto regulations became public. Further developments suggest, that also the [german] Federal Government has worked out specific plans to regulate cryptographic technology in Germany. On the current level of planning the [german] Federal Government is considering three variations of regulation[5]: 1. A key-escrow-solution, in which providers of cryptographic services have to provide the keys of customers to law-enforcement, if necessary. 2. A key-escrow-solution, in which only federally licenced providers of cryptographic services are permitted to operate. 3. A key-escrow-solution with simultaneous prohibition of all not federally permitted technologies. The FIfF is seeing herein a serious threat to the developement of society, that is increasingly dependent on information transfer. Not only is the protection of privacy now ranking below federal surveillance wishes, but also the protection of all interactions and transactions, that happen on electronic networks. This not acceptable interferance [with privacy] is for technical reasons not even accompanied by any plus sides for federal investigators. The planning of crypto regulations make clear not only the complete neglect of civil rights in our [german] constitution. It is becoming a symbol for the huge deficits in understanding the problems, possibilities and challenges of [...] an information society. The FIfF sees five areas, where arguments for the damage of crypto regulations can be made: I. Crypto regulations as last building block of surveillance Why does cryptography have to be regulated by law? From the official side a crypto regulation in Germany is necessary, because it's the last missing piece to surveillance of [long distance] information traffic. The law for "Long-distance information traffic surveillance" (FUeV)[6] forces providers of information traffic installations to provide the clear-text of monitored traffic to law enforcement. This can be avoided by end-to-end cryptography by single users. Since telefone and fax [communication] are rarely encrypted, a regulation of cryptography would mainly affect users of electronic networks, who can ensure the postal privacy only through encryption. It's underlying suggestion is, that encrypted data traffic of suspects [of crime] in electronic networks is the norm and can't be under surveillance. This is not true. The current laws and regulations are forcing providers of electronic networks to guarantee a surveillance of law enforcement and intelligence services; this is already happening[7]. Up until now no case is known, where the investigation of a crime was made impossible through cryptography. Nevertheless vague threat-scenarios are mentioned, to make an increased surveillance of information traffic more plausible. In Germany though it's hard to observe an under-development in surveillance. While in the United States and it's 240 million citizens 1229 telefone surveillance requests were granted in 1995, Germany with 80 million citizens had in the same time 3667 requests granted[8] - per citizen 6 times as many surveillance activities as in the USA. In 1996 the number of granted requests increased again 175 percent to 6428 [9]. No comparison of the crime rates in Germany and the USA can possibly explain these differences [...]. In which way these methods [of surveillance] have contributed to crime investigation is not known, since here a control of the [surveillance] activities is not done, as opposed to the USA. Although deficits [in surveillance] aren't noticable, the Great Listening Attack and crypto law are to open new fields for surveillance. Through that basic civil rights are increasingly limited. II. Basic rights are reversed The protagonists of a crypto law say, that such a regulation would be nothing new, but only a adaption of [existing] info surveillance to technical developments. This is wrong. Outlawing all not licenced crypto technology is reversing current principles of civil rights. The limitation of postal secrecy is only permitting the control of sendings. There are no forced ways of writing, nor are certain languages or ways of expression prohibited. No law is prohibiting to write with secret ink or to use any other means to make messages secret. Somebody opening letters has to do all work of analysis himself - no sender has to help him with a [correct] letter written according to law. A prohibition of cryptography, despite all current systems of law, would throw the law-conform electronic communication under the dictat of governmentally sanctioned syntaxes. No dictatorship in Germany has ever demanded that. III. After all, it's your money.... Electronic networks are transporting not only letters, even the politicians got that. Using cryptographic technologies therefore is not limited only to postal secrecy, but also other things worthy of protection. Those who make crypto laws also want the control over the electronic variants of transactions, that are currently under special privacy protection rights. The electronic service law of the IuKDG makes it obvious by stating explicitly electronic banking as an electronic service. For users of online-banking, online-work and online-medicine the bank-, service-, and medical secrecy gets reduced to the information traffic secrecy [law]. Thus the information traffic secrecy [law] is becoming a strategic basic [constitutional] right. A crypto law would not only undermine this basic right, but many others as well. Such a law is a trojan horse [for the democratic state] in an information society. IV. Additional problems in reality Let's assume, a crypto law would be formulated. How would it be [constitutional] and would it be practicable? To note is a law to digital signatures in the IuKDG, that indicates [a limitation of asymmetric] cryptography technologies. This leads to characteristic problems. 1. A handing-over of an escrowed key to law-enforcement means with currently available systems, that a unlimited surveillance of the key-owner is possible, as long as he uses the same [unchanged] key. This is even in the practice of surveillance an un-precedented limitation of citizens-rights, which [out-of-proportion nature] is also clear to cryptography experts and supporters of a [crypto] law: No one less than Otto Leibrich, Ex-President of the Federal Agency of Information Technology Security (BSI), publicized, how through introducing a time-variable in cryptography technologies timely limits should be set to surveillance[10]. But could the security agencies have an interest in [such] a lawful technology, that could not be decrypted anymore, when users could prevent investigation already through a changed system date? 2. The [available to law-enforcement] private key of a suspect makes only his incoming data traffic readable, but not his messages to third persons. In respect to the nature of asymmetric crypto technologies [...] proofs for an communicated agreement with third persons to commit a crime are only to be won, if also the keys of his communication partners are available, and beyond that in certain circumstances even their partners. The result is a tendency of an exponential increase of the [circle of] suspects, the surveillances and the work-load for the investigators. Here is no proportionality anymore nor effective Investigation. 3. Due to the lack of competent institutions, the federal government will not be able to avoid using the infra-structure, that it's currently creating for introducing and issuing digital signatures, to control crypto keys as well. No law will balance the loss of trust, when one one side the institution has to hand over private keys to law-enforcement and on the other hand guarantees for the security of the digital signature. Would the digital signature get into the wrong hands, any document could be lawfully signed. The fear of citizens is understandable, to be [powerless] to manipulations of federal key mighties. With such a loss of trust the federal government and companies [that support the digital signature] shouldn't even bother [to set up the infra-structure]. 4. A national crypto law is not able to adress accordingly the problems of international traffic typical for electronic networks. To get the crypto keys of a "Mafia Organization", the agencies of several countries would have to be mobilized. Are the supporters of a crypto law really serious, that an international co-operation in getting escrowed keys would function better than the current bad co-operation in investigating crimes, where electronic networks were used? 5. Compared to that it's almost neglectable, how such a crypto law would make harder the life of the software industry. To guarantee a relation of crypto key and user on the grounds of the law, the makers of Internet-browsers, for example, [...], would have to refrain from distributing their products in Germany via the Internet and instead sell software packages only [in stores] to persons with ID. Such an effort is affordable only for a few and wouldn't necessarely strengthen the position of the legal use of secure systems. When beyond that different and technically incompatible national regulations were enacted, the much cheered upon global Electronic Commerce would remain an illusion. V. A crypto law doesn't make the investigators smarter either Nobody can overlook this fact: a crypto law can be easily [routed around]. A legal cryptographic system can be used several times on a message, in fact, a with an illegal technology encrypted message could be "packed" in a legal system. Also a crypto law can be avoided, so that nobody knows: Steganography and other means to use covert channels hide messages in plain-text files, for example, and put a veil around the very existence of an encrypted message. - From the routing around of the crypto law, the federal security experts hope to actually gain advantages, because out of the circle of users of illegal crypto technologies, they could win worthy hints about the organizational structure of the suspected circle of people. With the use of steganography such a group of persons is never to become known [to law-enforcement]. But what would be won, even if a group of people would be found, that uses the same illegal crypto system? Their communication would not be decryptable, thus has to be won through other means. As investigators today are already sinking in a mountain of papers with protocols of phone surveillances, in the future they will have to spend even more effort to investigate groups, who have done nothing wrong but to use an non-permitted crypto system and communicate incidently with people, who are suspected of something. Such an effort can't even be justified by employment-market reasonings. To stamp the users of non-permitted cryptography automatically to suspects would be therefore even from an investigative perspective nothing but nonsense. - From a technical and practical perspective, a crypto law is nonsense and un-enforcable. [Some] lawyers though have the opinion, that independent from the enforcement the law has to be obeyed in any case. But such a dogmatic viewpoint is hard to balance with a democratic society. VI. Conclusion The FIfF has the opinion, that a crypto law would even more increase the already not shyly used surveillance of information traffic in Germany. It reverses constitutional rights and principles. It threatens drastically the constitutionally protected citizens-rights in electronic transactions and interactions. It would lead in practicality to severe additional problems with laws and will certainly not make the work for investigators any easier. The problems that come with such a regulation will also not be solved through law-dogmatism. The severe damage for civil rights, democracy, but also economical interests, are opposed by a very thin advantage. With that background, every rational analysis would therefore have to come to the conclusion, to avoid a regulation of cryptography. That the federal government is not doing that, despite consultations with acknowledged experts over several years, is either a proof for lack of knowledge or the willing neglect of the consequences. The very similar regulations of the OECD, Great Britains, the USA and the West-German plans are out-of-sync with the visions of a global, democratic information society. VII. Demands Instead of a limitation of cryptography it is according to the FIfF necessary to: 1. increase the availability and use of cryptography, 2. not hinder the use of cryptography through limitations or prohibitions, 3. make the free choice of crypto systems possible, 4. support the development of secure crypto systems, 5. increase the protection for electronic transactions and interactions, 6. evaluate the use of federal surveillance of communication regularly, independently and in-depth. -------------------------- 1 Cryptography Policy Guidelines; Recommendation of the Council, http://www.oecd.org/dsti/iccp/crypto_e.html 2 http://www.cdt.org/crypto/admin_397_draft.html 3 Minister for Science and Technology: Licensing of Trusted Third Parties for the Provision of Encryption Services; http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/dti.html 4 Presserklaerung des forschungspolitischen Sprechers von Buendnis 90/Die Gruenen, Dr. Manuel Kiper: http://www.gruenebt.de/aktuell/pm/indizes/in970236.htm 5 am konkretesten: C. Schulzki-Haddouti: Kanthers Kurs auf das Kryptoverbot; in: http://www.heise.de/tp/te/1146/fhome.htm 6 vgl. die Stellungnahme des FIfF zur FUeV unter http://hyperg.uni-paderborn.de/0x83ea6001_0x0036ce9 7 Erste Faelle einer Ueberwachung von Internet-Accounts wurden bekannt in: 30.000 Telephonate mitgehoert; in: Sueddeutsche Zeitung, 2.12.96, S. 15 8 USA: Newsweek 20.5.96, Bundesrepublik: Bt-Drs 13/3618 9 Bt-Drs. 13/7341 10 Otto Leiberich: Verschluesselung und Kriminalitaet II, in: BSI-Forum der KES 1/95 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Forum InformatikerInnen fuer Frieden und FFFF I fff FFFF gesellschaftliche Verantwortung (FIfF) e.V. F I f F Reuterstr. 44, D-53113 Bonn FFFF I fff FFFF E-mail: fiff(a)fiff.gun.de F I f F Tel.:xx49-228-219548 Fax: -214924 F I f F CL/GRUPPEN/FIFF und http://hyperg.uni-paderborn.de/~FIFF forum computer professionals for peace and social responsibility * * * * * * * * * * * * * PGP-Key on request * * * * * * * * * ==================================================================== /*************************************************************/ /* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE ...more info at */ /* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! -> http://www.epic.org */ /* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBM08quzltEBIEF0MBAQEn1gf/Ww87W3y3SrI6bK6Qg9iCgC6E40HSCkrB 2tFV3Zy+k7KtegHPrLikKhX1inJ+vEYPadHLhH1K45eGRJ/4lr4G3Pg+ozYNRalQ KAIeoD4XQNY4nOvm6+vMlg5lOhkObB5z4pf7H5P6j48c0HSKEITPk5ExBo7g5Hcv gl+yOrXYioEbSEScFkGYjvTh6zPNEqsr7Ma7nucON5OlqRe71Rdtn9FiGWSkxgTZ rRg1bnB6geksL/OeKz6neYXIfWuyFEoHs19sLo7gqGcCaib6nn+bs+qrWikJeY5L dWNzpoeqUSW46mZtUwC3IastDE2YhKuh7ffYPCG1v5AvaBG0NCZ4Sg== =fpKk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Re: The Balance of Terror
by TruthMangler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > At 12:22 AM -0400 4/12/97, Jeremiah A Blatz wrote: > > >peace. No logical holes there. However, the premise that a large nuke > >will keep some 3rd world dictator from lobbing some Exocets at your > >ships is, well, provably false. > > Given that the peace was kept, for whatever ultimate reasons, saying the > Peacekeeper had a "provably false" mission or name is unsupported. The same could be said for Charles Manson's aims being "provably false". The country has been going downhill since the 'Communist plot' to flouridate the water supply. "Provably false" has little meaning in this context, as well. > (We never have the luxury of running history over and over again, under > different controlled conditions, so we can't say for sure what caused > things to happen the way they did. I am persuaded that the balance of > terror in the 1950s-80s played a major role in the avoidance for 50 years > of any major wars. At horrendous cost to the U.S. and U.S.S.R., to be sure, > and better ways could probably have been found. But major wars _were_ > avoided.) I know it's midnight, the drugs are kicking in, and there are few posts to respond to on the weekend, but please make an attempt to start a new thread, as opposed to taking the easy way out and piling new drivel on top of old drivel. Dr. TruthRoberts

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One-time pads
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C[reep] Mayonnaise studied yoga back-streching exercises for five years so he could blow himself (nobody else will). ///// | @ @ Timmy C[reep] Mayonnaise C _) \ o

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jWebWorld 30
by Bubba Rom Dos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Cryto Doggrel
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Embedded in Tot[h]o[mo]'s babblings are preposterous lies, wild distortions, child pornography (both as graphic descriptions and in JPEG format), ethnic slurs, and racial epithets. \\\\\|///// \\\\|//// < * | * > | * | \( . )/ \___/

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Hash Techniques
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto carries a turd in his wallet for identification purposes. _ _/| \'o.0' =(___)= Tot[h]o[mo] U

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Bloated Economies
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Totohomo has been a source of endless embarassments to his sympathizers on and off the net. o \ o / _ o __| \ / |__ o _ \ o / o /|\ | /\ ___\o \o | o/ o/__ /\ | /|\ / \ / \ | \ /) | ( \ /o\ / ) | (\ / | / \ / \

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anonymous credit
by Wei Dai 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I used to think that the problem of anonymous credit is hopelessly intractable. I mean, who would loan money to an anonymous entity that may disappear at any time without a trace? Reputation, which is useful for other types of anonymous cooperation, is not a good solution in this case, since typically you need to borrow money to invest in reputation. Recently, I came upon a solution, inspired by an essay by the economist Steven Landsburg. I have to admit however, that the solution is fatally flawed. But I present it here anyway in the hope that one of you can offer an improvement that would make the scheme practical. The idea goes like this. The government announces a new series of anonymous zero-coupon treasury bonds that mature in 10 years, backed by a special lump-sum tax to be collected when the bonds mature. The proceeds of the bond auction and the tax are distributed equally among everyone. So basicly, the government forces everyone to take out a loan on the credit market and guarantees its collection. Anyone who does not want the loan anonymously buys treasury bonds with all of his distribution, holds them for 10 years, redeems them at maturity and uses the proceeds to pay off the lump-sum tax. The fatal flaw, of course, is that there is no reason why the government would want to help people get anonymous loans. Can anyone find a way to fix this? BTW, if anyone is interested in Steven Landsburg's essays, they are available at http://www.slate.com/Code/Compost/Compost.asp?Sort=Section&Key=20. I also highly recommend his book, _The Armchair Economist: Economics and Everyday Life_. "All crypto is economics." - Eric Hughes

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Re: Jim Bell raid
by jimbell＠pacifier.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:43 4/10/97 -0400, Sergey Goldgaber wrote: >On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Greg Broiles wrote: >- -> I realize that we're talking about net-time, but "long before" seems like a >- -> poor way to describe the 2-2.5 days between the appearance of the "IRS >- -> Inspection" report (which was, in fact, the transcription of newspaper story) > >Time flies fast on the Internet; or haven't you noticed? Three days of rather >heated discussion took place between the time the arrest was announced and >your message saying that you had the warrants, etc. For the record, I was never arrested and so far haven't been charged with anything. They're mightily pissed, however, and who knows what'll happen in the future. However, the local news was pretty embarrassing to them, and they've unintentionally alerted the media that there is actually a story to be covered, although it wasn't the one they wanted! The local newspaper is putting the essay on their website, or so I hear, so the public is going to be able to bypass all of the government hype and get to the real issue. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Jim Bell raid
by jimbell＠pacifier.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 20:05 4/04/97 -0500, John Young wrote: >Now that's Assassination Politics to feed the lust of the best and brightest >of all nations, if not that of a few of the overmuch AP protestors here. > >Jim's telephone number: 1-360-686-3911 My _correct_ phone number is 1-360-696-3911. Sorry that I didn't notice the error until now. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: "...markets are fundamentally chaotic, not efficient"? Really?
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. Crispin? Fuck you. With a brick. Now, exactly what did that nasty little bit of vituperation have have to do with our admittedly equivocal discussions about the definition of randomness, and whether any given market was a random process -- definitional prestidigitation aside -- and thus as efficient as it was ever going to be? Something any finance major, and probably any electrical engineer, for that matter, is taught in the third week of school? Not a god-damned thing. A point, which, if you actually go back and *read* the asinine (woops!) bit of logical sophistry (so sorry!) you eventually found yourself in, you might have actually comprehended. If you didn't fancy yourself as God's Gift to Disputation (damn... another one; I simply *must* stop this). Which, of course, was my point in showing you all your ad hominems. A point you didn't actually get, insisting on piling on more instead, so you could "prove" your point with a veritable bestiary of informal fallacies. (The nadir of which, by the way, was asking me to clarify something I said in passing, and then calling it a "straw man" in reply. Remarkable.) Having watched you for a while, and having determined that you have nothing new to add to the discussions here, I have no compunction whatsoever about putting you into my killfile. With a brick, Mr. Cretin^h^h^h^hispin. <Plonk!> Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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Fuck/god-damned/damn / Was--Re: "...markets are fundamentally chaotic, not efficient"? Really?
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert Hettinga wrote: > > Fuck you. With a brick. > god-damned > damn... As a long-time sufferer of Tourette Syndrome, I would like to thank all those on the list who have gone out of their way to make me feel at home. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld

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Re: "internet is ruining representative govt"
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > *To: Multiple recipients of list <info-policy-notes(a)essential.org> > *Subject: Cokie Roberts on How Internet Is Ruining Representative Government > For many parents, the idea of yet another influence in their children's > lives over which they have no control is threatening. Kookie Roberts is just another in a long line of parents who seem to think that control over their children's development is the responsibility of someone other than themselves. I have a wonderful idea. How about if those parents who don't want to assume responsibility for control over their children's lives pass custody of them to someone who will assume that responsibility, instead of arguing that everyone else's rights must be abridged because they are busy doing other things. I, for one, don't want to be forced to live in Kookie's world just because she is too busy being busy and important to properly supervise her children. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: Appeals to Authority and Herr Doctor Professors
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin wrote: > > my opinions are my own, and do not represent any agency > other than the ones involved in the murder of J.F.K. Uhh...OK. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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[ADMINISTRATIVIUM] Degausser
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Embedded in Timothy C. May's babblings are preposterous lies, wild distortions, child pornography (both as graphic descriptions and in JPEG format), ethnic slurs, and racial epithets. <<<< o(0-0)o -ooO-(_) Ooo-- Timothy C. May

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the substrate
by *****Jay Jason LaBelle***** 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What exactly happens to the substrate that causes data to be somewhat readable after a specific bit pattern has been stored there for a long time? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jay LaBelle Amateur Radio Callsign: KB8ZAV Phone:(317)495-2836 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Business Opportunity
by Henry Summers 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

******************************************************************* The author of this message used a trial version of NetMailer from Alpha Software Corporation to send this message to you. NetMailer is Email-Merge for the internet. You can send personalized email to all of your contacts at once. For more information, visit http://www.netmailer.com/trial or call (617) 229-2924 x117. NetMailer is also available at CompUSA, Computer City, Egghead, Best Buy, and other retailers worldwide. ******************************************************************* Earn $800.00 a Week Extra Income! Here's How to Get Started Dear Friend, Let me tell you which companies to contact so you can start to receive your checks. They can be $200.00, $400.00, $800.00, or more per week, depending on what you do. You can earn this excellent income right at home, and you work only when you want. My name is Henry Summers. I know you can make this money because I investigate income opportunities. I send for the moneymaking programs and offers that are listed in home work directories or advertised in magazines or by mail. I also track down companies with opportunities so good that they seldom need to advertise. Then I talk to people who are actually using these opportunities. I ask how much money they make . . . and whether they enjoy the work. This helps me direct you to the best opportunities that are available today. Ones that people are using right now to earn all the money they want. GET PAID FOR STUFFING ENVELOPES. NO FEES, NOTHING TO BUY This easy work is very appealing, but most people do not know how to get it. That's because so many of the envelope stuffing programs being advertised are not what you expect, and you don't find that out until after you have sent in your money. Let me tell you the real facts connected with true envelope stuffing: - You do not pay any fee or buy any materials to get started, - You do not place any ads or handle any orders, - All printed materials, postage, and mailing lists are supplied free by the companies that pay you, - Your pay is based entirely on how many envelopes you complete. Caroline Grant is an example of someone who earns money stuffing envelopes. The company delivers all the materials right to her door. She stuffs the envelopes, seals them, and applies the mailing labels and postage stamps that are supplied. Then she gets paid for every envelope completed. Caroline says, "I'm retired, and I enjoy having something to do. I usually watch television while I work. The home shopping shows are much more fun now that I have extra money to spend." If you'd like to do this kind of work, just follow the directions in Chapter 3 of my book Real Home Income. Hundreds of companies are ready to help you make money. I'll tell you what each one has available right now. Choose the kind of work you like and write to the companies who offer it. Pick any you want. You can work as an independent contractor for as many companies as time allows. There are no qualifications to meet, so you will not be turned down. I guarantee it. If you don't like one company or you want to make more money, there are plenty of others you can try. GET PAID FOR EVERY MINIATURE YOU ASSEMBLE Gina Walker of Texas likes to assemble miniature furniture for doll houses. All the necessary materials are supplied by the company that pays her. She puts them together and sends them back to the company. Everything is conveniently handled by mail and UPS. The company sends her a nice pay check for each batch she completes. Gina says, "I really like the work, and the extra money helps pay my bills. I'm glad I discovered these companies." You can get paid the same way, and you don't have to make miniature furniture. You can choose from many other types of work. They are all guaranteed to make you money. HOW I MADE $800.00 PER WEEK AFTER LOSING MY JOB I became interested in home income opportunities several years ago when I lost my job. I couldn't find another one that paid even half as much. I sent for dozens of money making offers. Most were totally worthless. Others involved work that did not appeal to me. Circular mailing caught my interest . . . and it actually worked. In just six weeks, I was making more than $800.00 a week working part time at home. It was better than my previous job. I soon paid my bills and bought a new car. Life was more fun than ever. As I learned more information and tried different ideas, the money poured in even faster. It made a huge difference when I applied certain secrets that are used by the experts. I was amazed at how profitable it was. In Real Home Income you'll learn how to use those secrets yourself. I'll tell you which companies to contact to get started. I'll show you some simple steps you can take to double your income without doing any more work. If you want, you can do all of this without handling any orders. Your name and address does not have to appear on anything you mail. You just mail circulars for companies and receive nice fat checks from them. With my proven methods, you can soon be earning more money than you ever imagined. Certain companies have been sending me checks for years. Just follow my directions, and they'll do the same for you. RECEIVE ONE DOLLAR FOR EACH ENVELOPE YOU STUFF. Envelopes come to you already stamped and addressed. This easy work is advertised by more than thirty-five companies, but they require that you pay $25.00 to $49.00 to register in their program. Then the program seldom turns out to be what you expected. That's where my book can help out. I describe the three kinds of mail programs that pay one dollar per envelope, but there is only one that I recommend. Not only is it more profitable overall, but you don't have to pay any fee to do it. Read about "The World's Best Dollar-Per-Envelope Program in Chapter 4. HOW TO AVOID DISAPPOINTMENT So many worthless offers are commonly advertised that many people give up before they come across a good one. That will not happen to you when you have my book. It tells you exactly how to recognize and avoid worthless offers. The most common ripoffs are covered in detail. This knowledge can save you a great deal of time and money. You can then take advantage of the many practical, down-to-earth opportunities that are described. Ones that enable you to start making money fast. Even just one extra source of income can make a big difference in your standard of living. EARN MONEY IN 48 HOURS When you get the book, look over the many excellent opportunities. Each listing includes a brief description of what is offered. Write to the companies you liked and request an application form. They have openings right now, and they'll be happy to get you started. You can begin to make money even faster if you choose one of the programs or plans that the book describes in detail. I'll tell you everything you need to know to get started. By taking a few simple steps, you can already be making money just 48 hours after you receive the book. LIFETIME MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE Real Home Income costs just $29.95 plus $3.00 for postage and handling. I'm so confident you can make the money I've talked about, that I back it with an unlimited, no-nonsense guarantee. If at any time you feel the book has not helped you make all the money you want, just send it back. I'll promptly send you a full refund of everything you paid, including postage and tax. I take pride in having an honest and reliable company where the customer comes first. If you ever have any questions about your order or the guarantee, you can call our listed phone number during regular business hours. My friendly customer service assistant will be glad to help you. RECEIVE THIS VALUABLE GIFT When it comes to improving your lifestyle, getting more with the money you have is just as important as earning more money. So along with your copy of Real Home Income, I'll include the free bonus report, "The 50 Best Ways to Live Better and Afford More With Any Income." Now matter what your income is, this report shows you how to enjoy the lifestyle of someone who earns up to $50% more. Start to enjoy more income and better life as soon as possible. Please complete the order form and mail it today. Everything will be rushed to you by first class mail. With the best wishes for you prosperity and happiness, Henry Summers P.S. I've recently discovered an amazingly profitable opportunity. One person I talked to made $20,000.00 in his first six weeks working right at home in his spare time. It is not multi-level-marketing. I've never seen anything like it. I'll give you a toll-free number to call so you can get started fast. Print this order form. __________________________________________________________ -Rush Order Form- #60268 Yes, I would like to start earning money as soon as possible. Please rush me Real Home Income and the bonus report by first class mail. I understand it is backed by a lifetime money back guarantee. Enclosed is $29.95 plus $3.00 for postage and handling. $32.95 total. (If you live in California, please send $34.95.) Name: SUMMERS PUBLICATIONS 1010 Calle Cordillera Address: P.O. Box 3127 San Clemente, CA 92674 City, State, Zip: _________________________________________________________ ******************************************************************* <[USERNAME]> sent you this message using NetMailer from Alpha Software Corporation. Visit http://www.netmailer.com/trial for more information. *******************************************************************

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Sierra On-Line FAQ
by Sierra On-Line 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks for visiting SierraWeb! This message contains important information regarding your subscription, so we recommend that you keep a copy for future reference. In particular, you will need to know your username and password to access certain features of our web site: USERNAME: cypherpunks PASSWORD: cypherpunks We can't change your password or look up your existing information, so if you lose your password, you'll have to re-apply under a different name. The rest of this message contains an introduction to our site and answers to frequently asked questions. Thanks again for visiting SierraWeb! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Questions! When you have a web site, you tend to hear the same questions from a lot of different people. And so your friendly webfolks at Sierra put together a list of questions that we hear on a regular basis, complete with the answers that we've typed so many times that we see them in our sleep. And we call it: THE SIERRAWEB FAQ (that's Frequently Asked Questions, not Frantic About Queensryche. Read on!) Q: Okay, I've managed to live this long without logging onto your really cool web site, but I just can't take it any more! How do I log on? A: Well, first you're going to have to go there. The SierraWeb address is: http://www.sierra.com/ This will take you to our main menu page. From this page, you can register to be a member of our site (which we'd probably like to call the Sierra Club, except that the name's already taken, and they don't do computer games). Click on Join to register, and you'll be asked to choose a user name and password, and write them down somewhere where the dog won't chew `em up. Q: I've spent the last six months in a freak time warp/in my aunt's house in Pittsburgh/in a pit/writing my thesis/on an archaeological expedition to Egypt/trying to solve the Chinese Checkers puzzle in Shivers, and in the meanwhile I've forgotten my username or password. Can you tell me what it is? A: Nope! We have no way to tell what your password or user name is. If you've forgotten yours, it's time to pick a new one. Just fill out the registration form again, this time choosing a different username and password. Q: You've got enough pages on your web site to keep Victor Hugo happy (cultural reference, here, folks ... French author, wrote Les Miserables, you could get a hernia lifting the unabridged version). So how am I supposed to find all the info I want about a specific product without having to dig through all those pages? A: You're in luck. The Search feature of our site will allow you to go to just the topics you're interested in and skip the rest, like picking through the dessert buffet and selecting only the stuff that has jell-o in it. So if you only like baseball simulations, or low-fat recipe programs, or computer games with robots in them, all you need to do is click on Search (always found at the bottom right-hand corner of each page), and type in the word you're looking for. This will provide you with a list of all the places on our site that your subject is mentioned. Look through the list, click on anything that looks interesting, and it'll take you there! Q: Okay, so I've looked through 97 different pages on your site, downloaded 8 demos and enough screenshots to fill a bucket of zip cartridges, talked for three hours with the folks in the Chat rooms, and, frankly, my brain is fried and I really don't want to hit "<- Back" about 183 times to get back to the index page. Isn't there an easier way? A: Yep. At the bottom of each page is a "Home" button. Click it. Q: I clicked to download a file, and it gave me an error message which said, "FTP anonymous access denied". What's up with that? I wasn't trying to be anonymous. Doesn't your system recognize me any more? This is starting to sound like an episode of "Nowhere Man"! A: Don't worry about it. It just means that the file you want can't be downloaded from the server at the moment. Our server is usually busier than a colony of ants at a Fourth of July picnic, so it may take several tries to get a file. Just try your download again later.

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Re: "...markets are fundamentally chaotic, not efficient"? Really?
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, Apr 12, 1997 at 04:57:57PM -0400, Robert Hettinga wrote: > Mr. Crispin? > > Fuck you. With a brick. [...] > Having watched you for a while, and having determined that you have nothing > new to add to the discussions here, I have no compunction whatsoever about > putting you into my killfile. > > With a brick, Mr. Cretin^h^h^h^hispin. > > <Plonk!> > > Cheers, > Bob Hettinga Well, you've probably all seen this before, but somehow it seemed appropriate for the occasion: Pierre, the French fighter pilot, takes his girlfriend, Marie, out for a pleasant little picnic by the river Seine. It's a beautiful day and love is in the air so Marie leans over to Pierre and says: "Pierre, kiss me!". So our hero grabs a bottle of red wine and passionately splashes it on Marie's lips. "What are you doing, Pierre?" shrieks Marie. "Well, my name is Pierre, the French Fighter Pilot, and when I have red meat I like to have red wine!" His answer is good enough for Marie and things begin to heat up. So she says: "Pierre, kiss me lower." Our hero rips off her blouse, grabs a bottle of white wine and starts pouring it all over her breasts. "Pierre, what are you doing?" "My name is Pierre, the French Fighter Pilot, and when I have white meat, I like to have white wine!" They resume their passionate interlude and things really steam up. Marie leans over once more and softly whispers into his ear: "Pierre, kiss me lower." Pierre tears off her underwear, grabs a bottle of Cognac and sprinkles it all over. He grabs a match and lights it on fire. Patting the flames out furiously, Marie screams: "PIERRE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!?" "My name is Pierre, the French Fighter Pilot, and when I go down, I go down in flames!" -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent(a)songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

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Digi-Cash IPO! $1.60 per share
by chairman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greetings: Our market research indicated that this information may very well be very interesting to you! As you may know, initial public stock offerings confer upon QUALIFIED INVESTORS huge profit potential opportunities, IF they understand risk. Millennium Interactive Technologies Corp., developer of the first ever advertiser funded system of digital cash is offering 625,000 common shares directly to the public at $1.60 per share, with a 625 share minimum. MITNET is an E-commerce startup which will offer Digital Cash and a FREE smart card to every user who retrieves advertising E-mail from its Internet web site. MITNET DCUs (Digital Currency Units) can be redeemed to pay for your on-line charges, Or converted instantly into the currency of any nation. MITNET ad-mail is the future of Internet advertising! OFFERING CAN ONLY BE MADE BY WAY OF PROSPECTUS QUALIFIED INVESTORS of full age can obtain a printed copy of this offering prospectus, demo software, and the website URL, by sending a reply with name, street address, and day or evening phone number. (please specify) =================================================== This is neither an offer to sell, nor the solicitation of an offer to buy any securities. =================================================== Dislike commercial e-mail? Let us put you on our master *DO-NOT-MAIL* list which we supply to 400+ bulk e-mail firms. Simply reply with the word remove anywhere in your message. =================================================== mailto:ceo@mitnet.com

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Re: LSL5 - Patty can't get into Studio 2
by tdls＠voyager.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

When you get to the bottom of the elevator, you have to go one screen to the right to get to the right studio. Then you can use the number from the blue stickum. -- (This message was sent to you automatically as a reply to a message you posted in "The Land of the Lounge Lizards" on Sierra's web site at http://www.sierra.com/messages/larry/.)

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