December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Brokat Win
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

NYP reports today on the raging success of Germany's Brokat Informationssysteme in selling strong crypto, thanks to US export restrctions. C2'sStronghold is cited as well. Brokat is negotiating with NSA to sell its technology to US companies with permission to re-export applets. http://jya.com/brokat.htm Those without Web access, send a blank message with subject: BRO_kat

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Re: [off topic] Feds reading this list, Jim Bell, and threats
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Young writes: > On Phil Hallam-Baker's rejoinder to Paul Bradley' defense of AP: > Virtually all of Phil's charges against AP apply equally well to > state-sponsored killing in the natonal interest, including that > arranged by highly educated, cultured, philosophical, nuclear > physicists and electrical engineers. > That's the issue. Who gets to decide who lives and who dies, and > how close the killer is to the slaughter, unprotected by law, by > public consensus, by popular will, by apologetics for the security > of national interest. I think John has here hit the crucial point. *Any* form of killing in cold blood - whether state sponsored executions, AP-sponsored killings, or just plain hired hit-men, has the initiator of the killing taking onto him or herself the power of life and death over others. This is not a power which I feel can be used in an ethical manner, since it's exercise is totally irrevocable. Thus, I oppose the death penalty, even in the most egregious cases. Deciding who should live and who should die is simply not a proper power for a State, nor for any person. I have much less of a problem when a person is killed in an act of defense, in the heat of the moment. [Yup, I know that that leaves a big fuzzy area in the middle, but most cases are pretty clear]. Peter Trei trei(a)process.com

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List of reliable remailers
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{"extropia"} = "<remail(a)miron.vip.best.com> cpunk pgp special"; $remailer{"mix"} = "<mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = "<remailer(a)replay.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"exon"} = "<remailer(a)remailer.nl.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"haystack"} = "<haystack(a)holy.cow.net> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"lucifer"} = "<lucifer(a)dhp.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = "<remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = "<winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord"; $remailer{'nym'} = '<config(a)nym.alias.net> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"balls"} = "<remailer(a)huge.cajones.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"squirrel"} = "<mix(a)squirrel.owl.de> cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"middle"} = "<middleman(a)jpunix.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek reord"; $remailer{'cyber'} = '<alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"dustbin"} = "<dustman(a)athensnet.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek mix reord middle"; $remailer{'weasel'} = '<config(a)weasel.owl.de> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = "<middleman(a)cyberpass.net> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"wazoo"} = "<remailer(a)wazoo.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"shaman"} = "<remailer(a)lycaeum.org> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"hidden"} = "<remailer(a)hidden.net> cpunk pgp hash latent cut"; catalyst(a)netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth(a)ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura(a)replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer(a)crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix) (weasel squirrel) The alpha and nymrod nymservers are down due to abuse. However, you can use the nym or weasel (newnym style) nymservers. The cyber nymserver is quite reliable for outgoing mail (which is what's measured here), but is exhibiting serious reliability problems for incoming mail. The squirrel and winsock remailers accept PGP encrypted mail only. 403 Permission denied errors have been caused by a flaky disk on the Berkeley WWW server. This seems to be fixed now. The penet remailer is closed. Last update: Mon 7 Apr 97 6:49:56 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- nym config(a)nym.alias.net #-#.-#*#-+## 1:14:20 99.98% weasel config(a)weasel.owl.de ++++++-++-+ 2:33:28 99.95% lucifer lucifer(a)dhp.com ++++ +++++++ 33:24 99.88% hidden remailer(a)hidden.net #.## #**+.-# 2:35:38 99.88% squirrel mix(a)squirrel.owl.de ++++++--+-+ 2:37:55 99.84% replay remailer(a)replay.com *-+- *+-.-*- 3:09:40 99.77% cyber alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net *+++*+ + +++ 39:58 99.53% extropia remail(a)miron.vip.best.com -.-_.-__..-* 29:08:06 99.52% balls remailer(a)huge.cajones.com * +# #** ### 1:49 99.49% winsock winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net ----------- 3:11:08 99.38% exon remailer(a)remailer.nl.com #* * #**#* * 1:31 99.24% jam remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca * *** ** 8:57 99.06% dustbin dustman(a)athensnet.com ++ + ------ 1:16:05 99.04% shaman remailer(a)lycaeum.org - ++++*++ 22:31 97.05% mix mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com -*___.-- 36:06:40 89.33% reno middleman(a)cyberpass.net +.-+ - - 1:41:18 50.25% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien

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Our tax dollars used to pay the Usenet forger Pidor Vorobiev
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Dr. Hecker, I would like to know whether the notorious Usenet forger and canceller Pidor V. Vorobiev is still employed by your laboratory and why.

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There's no such address as 'ca@dm.com'!!!
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

One finds the weirdest things in the orphan mailbox... >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 03:06:00 -0800 >From: Intertain Online Help <help(a)intertain-inc.com> >Message-Id: <199704051106.DAA00810(a)intertain-inc.com> >To: ca(a)dm.com >Subject: Intertain Online Membership Expiration > > >Your membership at Intertain Online (Member Name 4313672) will expire >on 97/04/10. We are constantly adding new videos and >promotional pictures to our show rooms. You can re-register any time >by simply going to our home page (http://intertain-inc.com/) and >select the New Member option - please choose a new username. > >You have a credit of $39 in your account that will be applied >towards any purchase you make at our site before your membership expires >- it cannot be credited back to your card. > >If you have any questions please email us at help(a)intertain-inc.com > > >Looking forward to hearing from you soon, > >Your Friends at Intertain Online > >http://intertain-inc.com >Intertain Online - Customer Support

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Re: Another Article on Jim Bell from the Oregano
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Rich Graves wrote: > On Sat, 5 Apr 1997, Alan Olsen wrote: > >>On Thursday, Environmental Protection Agency agents were at Bell's home with > >>a hazardous waste removal contractor analyzing chemicals found by the IRS > >>raiders. One of the chemicals reportedly was cyanide. Since the article doesn't mention the quantity, or other details, one has to wonder if it was a type of rodent or roach poison that many people commonly keep around the house. Did Ma and Pa Bell purchase a little something to take care of a mouse problem? Does this make them co-conspirators? Did the local hardware man suggest the product? Is he part of the plot against the government? I am reminded of the Campaign Against Marijuana Production in Northern California, where TV's and chainsaws were regularly seized as "articles used in marijuana production." At least in Northern California the small town newpapers were honest enough to poke fun at the federal bullshit rather than using it as an opportunity to overblow every minor aspect of the situation. > >They seemed to be unable to nail Jim on free speech issues, so they nailed > >him on "other things". > > No, they never tried to nail him on free speech issues. Read the Friendly > Affidavits at http://www.parrhesia.com/jimbell/ > > The government wasn't even aware of the AP essays until seven months after > they began legal proceedings on "other things." You have it backwards. The > government is using his speech in an attempt to nail him for tax evasion > and conspiracy. It's hard to get an all-encompassing search & seizure > warrant merely to fish for evidence of tax evasion and conspiracy to > harass IRS agents, but throw in an alleged Internet-based murder racket > and the judge will happily bend over and allow you to seize everything of > value. There was so much bullshit in the application for the search warrant that it had to be done by a real fisherman, practiced in the art of enlargening the size of the one that got away, in an attempt to justify asking the judge to let him use a net, instead of trolling. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: Another Article on Jim Bell from the Oregano
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Rich Graves wrote: > > On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Timothy C. May wrote: > > > At 11:45 PM -0700 4/6/97, Rich Graves wrote: > > > > >I think there is a censorship issue in the way the government is using the > > >issue. I think AP is protected speech, just as the Unabomber Manifesto is. > > >I don't want to see such speech chilled. But I think you've got the > > >instrumentality wrong. > > > > I don't see any evidence either Bell's AP or Kacynski's Unabomber > > manifestos are being chilled. Tim's eyesight is getting worse in his old age. > There's plenty of evidence right here in this thread. See especially the > "Feds Reading This List" branch and Lucky's "First they came for..." > comments. Just because you don't feel chilled doesn't mean others don't. > Whether this paranoia is justified is, of course, another issue: Paranoia is always justified. We live in a predatorial universe, where you have to eat to survive. > > I've written elsewhere why I think Bell was raided. Tim sounded like an IRS aplogetist in that post. I'm beginning to think that the same people who got the dirt on Gilmore and forced him to bend over for C2Net's censors also have some pictures of Tim tucked away somewhere. Contrary to Tim's flimsy reasoning, the IRS did not confine themselves to seeking a search warrant based on the evidence they had regarding possible SSN violations, or even a stretching of logic on that evidence. Instead, they used a blatant misinterpretation of Bell's AP system and developed a train of conspiracy which was even more theoretical than Bell's writing, with absolutely no reference to any hard evidence of Bell having engaged in any illegal speech, despite having read hundreds of Bell's posts. It seems that Tim May despises those on the cypherpunks list who develop conspiracy theories in regard to those who are attempting to censor and ridicule list members, but has no shortage of support for large, powerful government organizations who wish to develop conspiracy theories, using obvious misrepresentations of a persons ideas to subject them to search and seizure on a fishing expedition. > what Inspector Gordon says about AP being in and > of itself evidence of an anti-government conspiracy really bothers me. > That's the kind of thing that does create a chilling effect. Exactly as it is meant to do. At least Rich Graves, snow, and others still have the ability to recognize suppression of speech when they see it. For all of Tim's blustering about Bell's other sins being the source of his problems, Tim could easily find himself in the same position as Jim, if a large government agency should ever decide to use Tim's words to add to his woes in a civil or criminal case. How many on the cypherpunks list are co-conspirators with Jim Bell in his evil plan to murder government officials? Those who replied to his posts? All who received them? I would like to see one of the legal eagles on the list write up an application for a search warrant on the cypherpunks list servers and various individuals (written from the perspective of a government agent/prosecutor), using the same stretch of logic used in Bell's case. TruthMonger

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Re: AP Revisited
by Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin wrote: > > If we had anonymous betting pools which ABSOLUTELY shielded the > > identity of the people transferring money to and from them, > > There are many other weak points in the security of a system besides > the cryptographic techniques. The major problem with the scheme is that rat-choice is a theoretical abstraction and not graven on tablets of stone by the supreme being. Its a bit like Marxism, discover one small aspect of the way that economies work then assert that it is the _only_ effect. Unfortunately for Bell he underestimated the scope for state intervention. He's lucky he lives in the US, in France he would have been silenced long ago. > Suppose there was an international treaty banning such betting > pools, with penalty of death for running one? I think its more likely that the states involved would start using covert operations using their own personel rather than contracting out the job. Recently a bunch of UK entepreneurs with significant political backing (brown envelopes?) attempted to start a private lottery. They managed to continue for a few months until the government was forced to close them down. But for their ex-cabinet minister on the board the directors would probably have gone to jail. > Anonymous betting pools are an extremely contrived way of funding any > positive social good. Indeed they were merely one in a long line of schemes each of which had three things in common, cryptography, anti-government sentiments and murdering people. I think that people are giving Jim too much credit. I seem to recall that Tim May or Perry Metzeger took Bell's original scheme apart, made it into something like a coherent argument and then dissmissed the strengthened scheme. The problem with AP is that to make it work you have to assume that the public at large accept some particular normative ethical standard. If this were true you wouldn't need AP. > The political implications are far from obvious. Don't forget that > Hitler didn't kill 6 million jews by himself. Civil forfeiture laws > have supporters. Clinton did win an election. I seem to recall that the War on Drugs was a Bush proposal originally. Dole supported it and as with the CDA I would not expect a single member of congress to stand up against charges of "drug dealers friend". I think its quite wrong to see Clinton as someone who believes in the authoritarian position, the real problem is he cuts his cloth according to the popular whim. In fact Clinton demonstrates precisely the type of outcome AP would produce but without the murders. Basically AP is mob law or lynch law at best. > This is purely wishful thinking on your part. People from all sides > of issues could end up contributing money to all kinds of bets. Hitlers supporters would probably have set up a bounty for killing Jews, Communists and homosexuals. The British Government spent considerable amounts of effort attempting to assasinate Hitler. It proved impossible. The CIA offers considerable rewards for "information" on certain individuals but the takeup rate is much lower than rat-choice would indicate. If anyone wants to make a quick couple of million I can give them the names of a number of people the CIA would like to see "out of the game". If the sum on offer is insufficient a higher one can almost certainly be agreed. I doubt that there will be many takers however. > > Nuclear weapons would go away, the hole in the ozone > > layer would close up, and whales would be safe and happy again. > > All hogwash, of course. If these problems could be solved through > the application of volunteer money they would have been solved long > ago. I think the author might have been being sarcastic. > *No* government will support them. Since AP only works if > you have a sizable fraction of the population participating, some > participants will get caught. If the penalties are stiff there will > be very little incentive to play -- should I risk 10 years in jail so > I can donate $10 to get some dictator killed? Not likely. Interestingly enough the politics of Iran demonstrate why no government could afford to allow an AP type scheme to be enacted. The Iranian government is actually a composite of several power centers. As well as the government proper there are a number of "independent" theocratic organisations that are built on the former state industrial combines. The various groups that formed an alliance to topple the Shah each got a payoff in the form of "guardianship" of one or more of the combines. These combines have the resources to create what is effectively a state within a state. The government would like to move towards a more accomadating situation with the West but it cannot because of the threat from the private states within the state. The infamous fatwah against Salman Rushdie was issued by one of the combines. Similarly the Lebanese crisis involved multiple often opposed "Iranian" supported groups funded by different state factions. Eliminating the leadership of the combines is futile. Death is not a usefull deterent against suicide bombers. Assasination would at best spark off a civil war. Attempting to apply a US constitutional analysis based on the cult of the individual to other cultures is futile. > Of course, it is much easier to aviod getting caught, and the > probability of success is much greater, if the victim is a relative > unknown. So the prize hits would actually be small ones -- someone > might offer $10000 to kill you or me, for example, or a local > political rival, and that would be a good deal for a professional > assassin -- no bodyguards, police protection, or other safeguards to > worry about; and the pursuit will be a small effort. $10,000 is about the market rate for a hit man at present. In places like Columbia the price is considerably lower - $1000 perhaps. Phill

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Cuba and AP
by Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If people want to see the effect of an AP society have a look at Cuba. Under the Batista regime $50 was sufficient to have someone killed. There was anarchy, the police were corrupt, the mafia ran most of the few parts of the country that worked - even they found the lack of order a problem. The result was Fidel Castro. The Batista regime could neither reform nor survive. Any society that was threatened by AP would likewise collapse. It is important to distinguish liberty and libertines. The libertine recognises no check on individual rights, even when they affect the rights of others. The inevitable result of libertinage is authoritarianism. Phill

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Bell case and the liability of information...
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Sender: pswire(a)pop.service.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:54:35 -0400 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications <CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications <CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> From: Peter Swire <swire.1(a)OSU.EDU> Subject: Re: America Online and liability for dissemination of informatio To: CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM At 09:23 PM 4/6/97 -0700, Bob Stock wrote: >Someone said: >>>Look at it this way: what if this anonymous one had gone to his >>>local library, went through the newspapers and collected >>>classified ad forms. Then sent them all in, publishing >>>classifieds which said the same thing in 20 newspapers across the >>>country. > >>the newspapers which published those ads would have >>potential liability if they were negligent in their fact checking >>before publishing them. > >Newspapers are legally required to check the facts of classified ads >before publishing them in order to escape any potential libel >liability? You can't be serious. Sorry. Check out the cases that Soldier of Fortune magazine lost for failing to check its classified ads. The cases involved "gun for hire" classifieds, someone got shot, and the estate was permitted to sue the magazine. The tort analysis used a Hand test, in which the cost of screening the classified (on its face an invitation to commit a deadly crime) was found to be less than the cost to society of allowing the magazine to run such ads. The facts of SOF are very special, but they show at least one scenario where courts have found liability for running a classified ad. Regards, Peter Prof. Peter Swire Ohio State University College of Law e-mail: swire.1(a)osu.edu web: http://www.osu.edu/units/law/swire.htm (in early stages of construction) --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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(Fwd) Re: AP Revisited
by Charles Anthony 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 11:48:48 -0400 From: Hallam-Baker <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> To: Kent Crispin <kent(a)songbird.com>, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: AP Revisited I think its quite wrong to see Clinton as someone who believes in the authoritarian position, the real problem is he cuts his cloth according to the popular whim. Think again. Clinton and his administration are rabid when it comes to cryopto policy and the expansion of the FBI and others ability to pry into the lives of innocent citizens.. The draft of the crypto legislation is a good example of how, when given an opportunity to act out of the general public's sight and grasp, he's in there seeking even more ridiculously easy ways to get into everybodies business. I mean the current draft requires only a govt request in order to obtain access to your email. NOT a court ordered/appproved warrant- They may as well ask to be allowed to open and read every letter and pkg at the post office too.(and if this draft becomes law they probably will) All of these 'new' and neccessary' intrusions are Clinton proposals, not hold overs from some other admininstration. If he were opposed in principle he could certainly 'cut his cloth' along less authoratarian lines, following the lead of many of the administrations own committee reports that have come out against key escrow plans, but he will not budge on the issue. In fact, each time it is put back out there it gets worse. Clinton's ability to coopt left energy and appear to be less than he is is- earning appologistic comments like the one above- is what is really frightening. When it comes to US citizens civil liberties, Clinton is more dangerous than Reagan and Bush put together and I wouldn't call either of them friends of the people. Since it has been thrown around so much, remember that Hitler was a most powerful speaker, who connected well with the masses, couching nazi policy in the terms that gave the people what they wanted to hear. They too thought he was a most sincere and earnest fellow, with only the good of the country at heart. A 'Nixon' would never get away with this sort of proposal- but a telegenic, non-enhaling, sax playing, mcdonalds eating, aw shucks, (they lay it on thick you think?) well meaning bubba? --C ********************************************************************** Charles Anthony canthony(a)info-nation.com http://www.info-nation.com -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3a mQBtAzM63W8AAAEDAMRi15+AIXC0j2R7IrdeNhM7AQXPGAYAd2mCNhKrQa09fICZ 4jEpTd0biV+3nMAL6/6pWUm1AmFPS/FngecmXkrmMPlbgv3O0dapbJ2/FQf3XUtH Z5AEOdKL9xK5Ml7dCQAFE7QIY2FudGhvbnmJAHUDBRAzOt1wi/cSuTJe3QkBAemw AwC1DGxodXVPkA1D6uLdqFvP5H3/98i/gM2x9IvvfZscWszwrJuOhkYyd71TF7K5 gy55OqPp+Rf77On0XhmHoi98Y4HOSTHYPhN9o9zQQ+pn/4HmxQ4Tbtih2sCDNvmG b2g= =0pHR -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: AP Revisited
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:48 AM 4/7/97 -0400, Hallam-Baker wrote: >I seem to recall that the War on Drugs was a Bush proposal originally. >Dole supported it and as with the CDA I would not expect a single >member of congress to stand up against charges of "drug dealers friend". The War on Drugs was first declared by President Nixon. It has been a failure ever since. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: Helping Prof. Jim Bell
by Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Secret Squirrel wrote: > > If the FBI story is not yet another hoax, I think that it is > a good diea to call jimbell and maybe donate him some $$ for > lawyers or something like that. I'm not sure sending him money for lawyers would be most helpful. I was thinking another type of profession entirely. Until Jim actually gets charged for something I don't see that freedom of speech is the issue. Jim appears to be in trouble for reasons not associated with his AP rants. The AP manifesto has made it worse and attracted the opinion of the press but it does not appear to have caused his trouble, merely affected the way he was dealt with. AP probably caused there to be 20 heavilly armed cops rather than two unarmed ones. It probably meant that casual comments were taken rather more seriously than otherwise. Bell was always much more wacko off list than on. Phill

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Embedded in Tim C[rook] May's babblings are preposterous lies, wild distortions, child pornography (both as graphic descriptions and in JPEG format), ethnic slurs, and racial epithets. \\\\\|///// \\\\|//// < * | * > | * | \( . )/ \___/

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Re: Cuba and AP
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hallam-Baker, counting on cypherpunks readers to be unwitting victims of ten second sound-byte mentality, wrote: > > If people want to see the effect of an AP society have a look at Cuba. > Under the Batista regime $50 was sufficient to have someone killed. > There was anarchy, the police were corrupt, the mafia ran most of the > few parts of the country that worked - even they found the lack of order > a problem. > > The result was Fidel Castro. The Batista regime could neither reform nor > survive. Any society that was threatened by AP would likewise collapse. So Hallam-Baker recognizes the AP system as a valid way to bring about the collapse of unpopular, corrupt dictatorships. > It is important to distinguish liberty and libertines. The libertine > recognises no check on individual rights, even when they affect the > rights of others. The inevitable result of libertinage is > authoritarianism. The result of men living together on the face of the earth leads to the inevitable result of authoritarianism. Systems such as "Assassination Politics" can aide in fighting against unbearable corruption of power by lowering the cost of assassination and thus raising the cost of corruption. The stench in Cuba was so bad under the U.S. backed Batista regime that Guerva and Castro were a breath of fresh air for the majority of Cuban people. Despite years of harassment, invasion, and economic attack on Cuba by the shameless 'free' countries <yuk,yuk> of the world, Castro is still a better option for the Cuban people than other options. When this ceases to be the case, then another variation of the Cuban AP system will arise (perhaps Bell's?), and we will see the rise of a new Cuban government. Despite the grand support the IRS is receiving from the government- owned members of the cypherpunks list, it can hardly be argued that the U.S. government has a problem with "Assassination Politics," since they have availed themselves of it in the past, but only with the power of AP being in the hands of the citizens instead of their own ruling hands. TruthMonger (#7)

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Re: Helping Prof. Jim Bell
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hallam-Baker wrote: > Until Jim actually gets charged for something I don't see that > freedom of speech is the issue. > The AP manifesto...merely affected the way he was dealt with. Hallam-Baker is apparently incapable of understanding his own trail of logic. He tells us that freedom of speech is not the issue, and then proceeds to tell us that Jim Bell was dealt with differently than others for exercising his freedom of speech. Now perhaps he can explain to us how race issues are not involved when cops beat the living crap out of niggers when arresting them for traffic violations. ("Until the nigger in intensive care 'gets charged with something' I don't see that race is an issue.") -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: Helping Prof. Jim Bell
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Although I don't disagree with Phill in general, I note from the IRS agent's affidavit that the reason given for searching his house was they thought he was gonna do the AP thing after all. So AP does appear to have caused if not all his troubles, at least the ones from last week. -Declan At 3:17 PM -0400 4/7/97, Hallam-Baker wrote: > >Until Jim actually gets charged for something I don't see that >freedom of speech is the issue. Jim appears to be in trouble >for reasons not associated with his AP rants. The AP manifesto >has made it worse and attracted the opinion of the press but it >does not appear to have caused his trouble, merely affected the >way he was dealt with. > >AP probably caused there to be 20 heavilly armed cops rather than >two unarmed ones. It probably meant that casual comments were >taken rather more seriously than otherwise. Bell was always much >more wacko off list than on. > > > Phill ------------------------- Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

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New Paper by Ron Rivest
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text From: "Phillip M. Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> To: "Micropay (E-mail)" <micropay(a)ai.mit.edu> Subject: New Paper by Ron Rivest Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:18:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-micropay(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: micropay(a)ai.mit.edu Ron Rivest has just added a new paper on Micropayments to his Web site: Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (rump session talk given at the Financial Cryptography '97 conference) http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/publications.html Its in Postscript, perhaps when the HTML Math proposal finally appears... (Three years and counting so far). Phill Phillip M. Hallam-Baker Visitng Scientist MIT Laboratory for Artificial Intelligence. hallam(a)ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/hallam/hallam.html --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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Re: Wassenaar Arrangement now available
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > In early March, I filed a FOIA request with the Arms Control & Disarmament > Agency, a division of the Department of State, for a copy of the Wassenaar > Arrangement, a multinational agreement which is intended to regulate and > coordinate the regulation of military and "dual-use" items. (Cryptographic > software and hardware is often considered a "dual-use" item.) > > I received a copy of the Arrangement last week, and have converted it to > HTML. It is available on the web at > > <http://www.parrhesia.com/wassenaar/>, or > <https://www.parrhesia.com/wassenaar/> for the security-conscious. > > The document itself does not refer to cryptography or cryptographic > software/hardware. The last page of the document - the "Munitions List" was > blank; but the document was marked "released in full". I'm going to compare > what I've got with the various pieces of the Arrangement which have been > released through other sources to see if I need to make a supplemental > request for more information. The disparity between various informational 'releases' of information surrounding the Wassenaar Agreement points to the real intentions of those involved, which is to regulate the availability to strong crypto not so much through legislation, as through uncertainty surrounding legal issues which can result in severe penalties to those who might chance to cross ill-defined legal lines. In a previous post, I mentioned a law enforcement official who responded to my question about one of the finer points of the law with the reply, "I'm not paid to 'know' the law, I'm paid to 'enforce' it." i.e. No matter what action you perform, the interpretation that the government uses to fuck you in the ass will take an opposite position on the matter. I have seen back-to-back cases in the same courtroom, with the same judge, where government prosecutors argued diametrically opposed positions in order to convict the accused. The result? Two convictions. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: Cypherpunks FAQ
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: > * First, calling for _others_ to write a FAQ, or to "collectively" write a > FAQ, rarely works. (I'm not criticizing Paul, just noting historical truth.) > > * Second, many FAQs have been started, few have been finished. An excellent FAQ from L.Deitweller was shot down by Timmy May and his cronies precisely because Timmy was envious of LD's ability to do what Timmy couldn't do. <blah, blah, blah> --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Fan mail from Hallam-Baker...
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Sender: hallam(a)etna.ai.mit.edu >Message-Id: <334920D5.ABD(a)ai.mit.edu> >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:29:09 -0400 >From: Hallam-Baker <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) >Mime-Version: 1.0 >To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> >Subject: Re: I hope thr IRA nails Hallam-Baker... >References: <5i4971$iug(a)life.ai.mit.edu> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >You are now in very serious trouble. > >I have contacted the FBI and other agencies. You will encounter >difficulty in travelling to certain foreign countries. > >You may have put your own life at risk. The IRA is not the only >terrorist group in Ireland, its opponents make a point of assasinating >anyone who openly supports IRA activities. > > Phill. Paul, or someone in U.K. - I'd like to donate $1 to the IRA every time Hallam-Baker posts to this mailing list. Can someone please tell me a convenient way to send them donations? Thank you very much.

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Re: Helping Prof. Jim Bell
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:01 PM -0600 4/7/97, Toto wrote: > Hallam-Baker is apparently incapable of understanding his own >trail of logic. > He tells us that freedom of speech is not the issue, and then >proceeds to tell us that Jim Bell was dealt with differently than >others for exercising his freedom of speech. Look, we know Jim Bell the writer. (Some people have met him and know him as Jim Bell the loon, according to their assessments here, but that's a different, though possibly relevant, point.) An error many are making here is to assume that Bell was searched because of his "Bell the writer" personna. This is clearly incorrect. The search warrants dealt with many issues, as have been detailed in several posts here, and in the stuff Greg Broiles put up in scanned format. Assuming that his writings here were the cause of the actions against him is just plain incorrect. His writings may have affected the assessment of "likelihood" and "intent," given the various other things, but how else should it be? One's spoken or written words may indeed be protected by the First, against prior restraint and censorship, but they can generally be used, if available. In my posts I've carefully avoided evaluating whether Bell will be found guilty of any actual crime...I don't know the evidence, or the legal code, well enough. I _have_ said that I don't find it _surprising" that the Feds would think him a plausible threat, at least worthy of a search. They may read his rants and ultimately decide his threats were not plausible. They may decide the chances of conviction aren't good. Who knows? Bell himself said he was not surprised. --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Bot-generated insults
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ray Arachelian <sunder(a)brainlink.com> writes: > It figures you wouldn't know any other language than BASIC, and nadly ^^^?? > written basic at that. I've seen better code written by chimpanzees. If Ray "Arsen" Arachelian can work for Earthweb, LLP, as an "associate network adiministrator", then I'm not surprised if they have chimpanzees writing Java code as well. I used to think that LISP is the best language for such apps, but wouldn't debase it by writing a simulation of a dandruff-covered Armenian in it. **************************************************************************** (DEF 'randomize '(LAMBDA () (SETQ RSEED (DTIME)) (SETQ RSEED (- RSEED (* 12345(/ RSEED 12345)))))) (DEF 'random '(LAMBDA (s) (SETQ RSEED (+ RSEED 911)) (COND ((GT RSEED 15000) (SETQ RSEED (- RSEED 15000)))) (+ 1 (- RSEED (* s (/ RSEED s)))) )) ~ (DEF 'statement '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 020)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC "Let the games begin!")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC "Sweet Jesus!")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC "Not that!")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC "At last!")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC "Land O' Goshen!")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC "Is that all?")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC "Is it in?")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC "Cheese it, the cops!")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC "I never dreamed it could be like this!")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC "If I do, you won't respect me!")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC "Oh my God!")) ((EQ R 012) (PRINC "Now!")) ((EQ R 013) (PRINC "Open Sesame!")) ((EQ R 014) (PRINC "Pomade!")) ((EQ R 015) (PRINC "Harder!")) ((EQ R 016) (PRINC "Faster!")) ((EQ R 017) (PRINC "Again!")) ((EQ R 018) (PRINC "Help!")) ((EQ R 019) (PRINC "Ay de mi!")) ((EQ R 020) (PRINC "Deeper!")) ))) (DEF 'said '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 018)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC " cried")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC " bellowed")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC " yelped")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC " croaked")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC " growled")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC " panted")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC " moaned")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC " grunted")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC " laughed")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC " warbled")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC " sighed")) ((EQ R 012) (PRINC " ejaculated")) ((EQ R 013) (PRINC " whispered")) ((EQ R 014) (PRINC " stammered")) ((EQ R 015) (PRINC " wheezed")) ((EQ R 016) (PRINC " squealed")) ((EQ R 017) (PRINC " whimpered")) ((EQ R 018) (PRINC " pleaded")) ))) (DEF 'girl '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 011)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC "saucy baggage")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC "wanton hussy")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC "unfortunate woman")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC "lust-crazed duchess")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC "female impersonator")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC "nine-year-old nymphomaniac")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC "45-year-old virgin bull-dyke")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC "leather freak")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC "home-cumming queen")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC "defrocked nun")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC "bisexual budgie")) ))) (DEF 'adj-1 '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 014)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC "thrashing")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC "slurping")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC "insatiable")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC "rabid")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC "satanic")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC "corpulent")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC "nose-grooming")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC "tripe-fondling")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC "dribbling")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC "spread-eagled")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC "orally fixated")) ((EQ R 012) (PRINC "vile")) ((EQ R 013) (PRINC "awesomely endowed")) ((EQ R 014) (PRINC "strapping")) ))) (DEF 'boy '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 020)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC " rakehell")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC " black panther")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC " hunchback")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC " friar")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC " archduke")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC " midget")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC " great dane")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC " stallion")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC " donkey")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC " electric eel")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC " lecherous")) ((EQ R 012) (PRINC " lickspittle")) ((EQ R 013) (PRINC " faggot butler")) ((EQ R 014) (PRINC " paraplegic")) ((EQ R 015) (PRINC " pothead")) ((EQ R 016) (PRINC " dirty old man")) ((EQ R 017) (PRINC " black-power advocate")) ((EQ R 018) (PRINC " follicle fetishist")) ((EQ R 019) (PRINC " egg-sucking chicken flicker")) ((EQ R 020) (PRINC " hired hand")) ))) (DEF 'verb-1 '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 011)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC " plundered")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC " diddled")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC " devoured")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC " fondled")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC " mouthed")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC " tongued")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC " lashed")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC " tweaked")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC " violated")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC " defiled")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC " irrigated")) ))) (DEF 'adj-2 '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 012)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC "alabaster")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC "pink-tipped")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC "creamy")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC "rosebud")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC "moist")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC "throbbing")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC "juicy")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC "heaving")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC "straining")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC "mammoth")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC "succulent")) ((EQ R 012) (PRINC "quivering")) ))) (DEF 'tits '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 013)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC " schnoobies")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC " globes")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC " melons")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC " mounds")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC " buds")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC " paps")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC " chubbies")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC " protruberances")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC " treasures")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC " bum")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC " bung")) ((EQ R 012) (PRINC " vestibule")) ((EQ R 013) (PRINC " armpits")) ))) (DEF 'verb-2 '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 011)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC "plunged")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC "thrust")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC "squeezed")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC "pounded")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC "drove")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC "eased")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC "slid")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC "hammered")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC "squished")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC "crammed")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC "slammed")) ))) (DEF 'adj-3 '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 018)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC "bursting")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC "jutting")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC "glistening")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC "brobdingnagian")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC "prodigious")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC "purple")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC "searing")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC "swollen")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC "rigid")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC "rampaging")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC "warty")) ((EQ R 012) (PRINC "steaming")) ((EQ R 013) (PRINC "gorged")) ((EQ R 014) (PRINC "trunklike")) ((EQ R 015) (PRINC "foaming")) ((EQ R 016) (PRINC "spouting")) ((EQ R 017) (PRINC "swinish")) ((EQ R 018) (PRINC "red-hot")) ))) (DEF 'prick '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 024)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC " prosthesis")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC " intruder")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC " prong")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC " stump")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC " member")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC " meatloaf")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC " majesty")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC " bowsprit")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC " earthmover")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC " jackhammer")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC " ramrod")) ((EQ R 012) (PRINC " cod")) ((EQ R 013) (PRINC " jabber")) ((EQ R 014) (PRINC " gusher")) ((EQ R 015) (PRINC " engine")) ((EQ R 016) (PRINC " brownie")) ((EQ R 017) (PRINC " joy stick")) ((EQ R 018) (PRINC " plunger")) ((EQ R 019) (PRINC " piston")) ((EQ R 020) (PRINC " tool")) ((EQ R 021) (PRINC " manhood")) ((EQ R 022) (PRINC " lollipop")) ((EQ R 023) (PRINC " kidney prodder")) ((EQ R 043) (PRINC " device")) ))) (DEF 'adj-4 '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 010)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC "pulsing")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC "hungry")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC "hymeneal")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC "palpitating")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC "gaping")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC "slavering")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC "welcoming")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC "glutted")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC "gobbling")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC "cobwebby")) ))) (DEF 'cunt '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 017)) (COND ((EQ R 001) (PRINC " swamp")) ((EQ R 002) (PRINC " honeypot")) ((EQ R 003) (PRINC " jam jar")) ((EQ R 004) (PRINC " butterbox")) ((EQ R 005) (PRINC " furburger")) ((EQ R 006) (PRINC " cherry pie")) ((EQ R 007) (PRINC " cush")) ((EQ R 008) (PRINC " slot")) ((EQ R 009) (PRINC " slit")) ((EQ R 010) (PRINC " cockpit")) ((EQ R 011) (PRINC " damp")) ((EQ R 012) (PRINC " furrow")) ((EQ R 013) (PRINC " sanctum sanctorum")) ((EQ R 014) (PRINC " bearded clam")) ((EQ R 015) (PRINC " continental divide")) ((EQ R 016) (PRINC " paradise valley")) ((EQ R 017) (PRINC " wanton desire")) ))) (DEF 'smut '(LAMBDA () (PRINC '\") (statement) (PRINC '\") (said) (PRINC " the ") (girl) (PRINC " as the ") (adj-1) (boy) (verb-1) (PRINC " her ") (adj-2) (tits) (PRINC " and ") (verb-2) (PRINC " his ") (adj-3) (prick) (PRINC " into her ") (adj-4) (cunt) (PRINC ".") (TERPRI) )) (randomize) **************************************************************************** ~Pseudo-random 1 to s (DEF 'randomize '(LAMBDA () (SETQ RSEED (DTIME)) (SETQ RSEED (- RSEED (* 12345(/ RSEED 12345)))))) (DEF 'random '(LAMBDA (s) (SETQ RSEED (+ RSEED 911)) (COND ((GT RSEED 15000) (SETQ RSEED (- RSEED 15000)))) (+ 1 (- RSEED (* s (/ RSEED s)))) )) (DEF 'adj-phrase '(LAMBDA () (PROG () LOOP-adj (SETQ R (random 124)) (PRINC (COND ((EQ R 001) "stinking") ((EQ R 002) "little") ((EQ R 003) "smelly") ((EQ R 004) "ugly") ((EQ R 005) "bisexual") ((EQ R 006) "deranged") ((EQ R 007) "revolting") ((EQ R 008) "sickening") ((EQ R 009) "disgusting") ((EQ R 010) "perverted") ((EQ R 011) "stupid") ((EQ R 012) "illiterate") ((EQ R 013) "flea-bitten") ((EQ R 014) "depraved") ((EQ R 015) "uncouth") ((EQ R 016) "bad breathed") ((EQ R 017) "pitiful") ((EQ R 018) "dumpy") ((EQ R 019) "offensive") ((EQ R 020) "dim witted") ((EQ R 021) "loathsome") ((EQ R 022) "insignificant") ((EQ R 023) "blithering") ((EQ R 024) "repulsive") ((EQ R 025) "worthless") ((EQ R 026) "blundering") ((EQ R 027) "retarded") ((EQ R 028) "useless") ((EQ R 029) "obnoxious") ((EQ R 030) "low budget") ((EQ R 031) "asisine") ((EQ R 032) "neurotic") ((EQ R 033) "subhuman") ((EQ R 034) "crochety") ((EQ R 035) "indescribable") ((EQ R 036) "contemptible") ((EQ R 037) "unspeakable") ((EQ R 038) "sick") ((EQ R 039) "lazy") ((EQ R 040) "good for nothing)") ((EQ R 041) "slutty") ((EQ R 042) "spastic") ((EQ R 043) "creepy") ((EQ R 044) "sloppy") ((EQ R 045) "dumb") ((EQ R 046) "predictable") ((EQ R 047) "atrocious") ((EQ R 048) "grotesque") ((EQ R 049) "ungodly") ((EQ R 050) "feeble-minded") ((EQ R 051) "clueless") ((EQ R 052) "demented") ((EQ R 053) "bewildered") ((EQ R 054) "outrageous") ((EQ R 055) "deranged") ((EQ R 056) "confused") ((EQ R 057) "miserable") ((EQ R 058) "detestable") ((EQ R 059) "annoying") ((EQ R 060) "shameless") ((EQ R 061) "ignorant") ((EQ R 062) "despicable") ((EQ R 063) "insane") ((EQ R 064) "tiny brained") ((EQ R 065) "oblivious") ((EQ R 066) "hopeless") ((EQ R 067) "god-awful") ((EQ R 068) "bungling") ((EQ R 069) "appalling") ((EQ R 070) "lackluster") ((EQ R 071) "skaggy") ((EQ R 072) "brainless") ((EQ R 073) "boring") ((EQ R 074) "uncultivated") ((EQ R 075) "inadequate") ((EQ R 076) "inhuman") ((EQ R 077) "self-exalting") ((EQ R 078) "testy") ((EQ R 079) "irresponsible") ((EQ R 080) "mentally deficient") ((EQ R 081) "disdainful") ((EQ R 082) "friendless") ((EQ R 083) "dreadfull") ((EQ R 084) "psychotic") ((EQ R 085) "opinionated") ((EQ R 086) "monotonous") ((EQ R 087) "disgraceful") ((EQ R 088) "preposterous") ((EQ R 089) "totally tacky") ((EQ R 090) "uneducated") ((EQ R 091) "rediculous") ((EQ R 092) "double ugly") ((EQ R 093) "irrational") ((EQ R 094) "cranky") ((EQ R 095) "goofy") ((EQ R 096) "crude") ((EQ R 097) "embarrassing") ((EQ R 098) "deeply disturbed)") ((EQ R 099) "inept") ((EQ R 100) "undisciplined") ((EQ R 101) "crooked") ((EQ R 102) "pathetic") ((EQ R 103) "infantile") ((EQ R 104) "witless") ((EQ R 105) "indecent") ((EQ R 106) "infuriating") ((EQ R 107) "unimpressive") ((EQ R 108) "insufferable") ((EQ R 109) "dismal") ((EQ R 110) "erratic") ((EQ R 111) "incapable") ((EQ R 112) "hallucinating") ((EQ R 113) "pompous") ((EQ R 114) "pitiable") ((EQ R 115) "slovenly") ((EQ R 116) "laughable") ((EQ R 117) "bad tempered") ((EQ R 118) "decrepit") ((EQ R 119) "bizarre") ((EQ R 120) "driveling") ((EQ R 121) "uncultured") ((EQ R 122) "cantankerous") ((EQ R 123) "hypocritical") ((EQ R 124) "sleazy"))) (COND ( (LT(random 3) 3) (PRINC ", ") (GO LOOP-adj)) ( T (PRINC " ")) )))) (DEF 'noun '(LAMBDA () (COND ((EQ (random 4) 1) (SETQ R (random 15)) (PRINC (COND ((EQ R 01) "twit") ((EQ R 02) "bastard") ((EQ R 03) "fool") ((EQ R 04) "idiot") ((EQ R 05) "cretin") ((EQ R 06) "dolt") ((EQ R 07) "moron") ((EQ R 08) "degenerate") ((EQ R 09) "mutant") ((EQ R 09) "asshole") ((EQ R 10) "imbecile") ((EQ R 11) "incompetent") ((EQ R 12) "failure") ((EQ R 13) "noncompoop") ((EQ R 14) "pothead") ((EQ R 15) "wiper of other peoples' behinds")))) (T(SETQ R (random 30)) (PRINC (COND ((EQ R 01) "lump") ((EQ R 02) "crock") ((EQ R 03) "ball") ((EQ R 04) "mass") ((EQ R 05) "tub") ((EQ R 06) "loaf") ((EQ R 07) "bucket") ((EQ R 08) "mound") ((EQ R 09) "bunch") ((EQ R 10) "stack") ((EQ R 11) "glob") ((EQ R 12) "bag") ((EQ R 13) "heap") ((EQ R 14) "mountain") ((EQ R 15) "load") ((EQ R 16) "toilet full") ((EQ R 17) "barrel") ((EQ R 18) "sack") ((EQ R 19) "blob") ((EQ R 20) "pile") ((EQ R 21) "clump") ((EQ R 22) "shovel full") ((EQ R 23) "cake") ((EQ R 24) "bowl") ((EQ R 25) "wheelbarrel full") ((EQ R 26) "box") ((EQ R 27) "crate") ((EQ R 28) "collection") ((EQ R 29) "truckload") ((EQ R 30) "vat") )) (PRINC " of ") (SETQ R (random 69)) (PRINC (COND ((EQ R 01) "stale ") ((EQ R 02) "foul ") ((EQ R 03) "fossilized ") ((EQ R 04) "festering ") ((EQ R 05) "steaming ") ((EQ R 06) "gross ") ((EQ R 07) "reasty ") ((EQ R 08) "recycled ") ((EQ R 09) "mildewed ") ((EQ R 10) "raunchy ") ((EQ R 11) "putrid ") ((EQ R 12) "moldy ") ((EQ R 13) "synthetic ") ((EQ R 14) "filthy ") ((EQ R 15) "soppy ") ((EQ R 16) "radioactive ") ((EQ R 17) "infested ") ((EQ R 18) "septic ") ((EQ R 19) "crusty ") ((EQ R 20) "smelly ") ((EQ R 21) "dirty ") ((EQ R 22) "rotten ") ((EQ R 23) "crumby ") ((EQ R 24) "musty ") ((EQ R 25) "second-hand ") ((EQ R 26) "fly-covered ") ((EQ R 27) "imitation ") ((EQ R 28) "moth-eaten ") ((EQ R 29) "pureed ") ((EQ R 30) "decaying ") ((EQ R 31) "decomposed ") ((EQ R 32) "freeze dried ") ((EQ R 33) "soggy ") ((EQ R 34) "petrified ") ((EQ R 35) "seething ") ((EQ R 36) "stinking ") ((EQ R 37) "clammy ") ((EQ R 38) "dehydrated ") ((EQ R 39) "polluted ") ((EQ R 40) "lousy ") ((EQ R 41) "stenchy ") ((EQ R 42) "malignant ") ((EQ R 43) "noxious ") ((EQ R 44) "grimy ") ((EQ R 45) "fusty ") ((EQ R 46) "reeky ") ((EQ R 47) "nasty ") ((EQ R 48) "mutilated ") ((EQ R 49) "sloppy ") ((EQ R 50) "fresh ") ((EQ R 51) "gruesome ") ((EQ R 52) "foreign ") ((EQ R 53) "grisly ") ((EQ R 54) "sloshy ") ((EQ R 55) "dusky ") ((EQ R 56) "wormy ") ((EQ R 57) "mealy ") ((EQ R 58) "defective ") ((EQ R 59) "spoiled ") ((EQ R 60) "contaminated ") ((EQ R 61) "sun-ripened ") ((EQ R 62) "rancid ") ((EQ R 63) "old ") ((EQ R 64) "fermenting ") ((EQ R 65) "industrial-strength ") ((EQ R 66) "flea-bitten ") ((EQ R 67) "nauseating ") ((EQ R 68) "decomposing ") ((EQ R 69) "unimaginable ") )) (SETQ R (random 91)) (PRINC (COND ((EQ R 01) "pig bowels") ((EQ R 02) "walrus blubber") ((EQ R 03) "dog barf") ((EQ R 04) "coyote snot") ((EQ R 05) "carp guts") ((EQ R 06) "skunk waste") ((EQ R 07) "camel fleas") ((EQ R 08) "llama spit") ((EQ R 09) "rat boogers") ((EQ R 10) "toe jam") ((EQ R 11) "maggot guts") ((EQ R 12) "dog meat") ((EQ R 13) "ear wax") ((EQ R 14) "nose nuggets") ((EQ R 15) "swine remains") ((EQ R 16) "rubbish") ((EQ R 17) "goat carcusses") ((EQ R 18) "sewage") ((EQ R 19) "zit cheese") ((EQ R 20) "vulture gizzards") ((EQ R 21) "hogwash") ((EQ R 22) "navel lint") ((EQ R 23) "gutter mud") ((EQ R 24) "leprousy scabs") ((EQ R 25) "nasal hairs") ((EQ R 26) "garbage") ((EQ R 27) "elephant plaque") ((EQ R 28) "slug slime") ((EQ R 29) "buzzard barf") ((EQ R 30) "jock straps") ((EQ R 31) "parrot droppings") ((EQ R 32) "camel manure") ((EQ R 33) "chicken guts") ((EQ R 34) "underwear") ((EQ R 35) "compost") ((EQ R 36) "pig droppings") ((EQ R 37) "rabbit raisins") ((EQ R 38) "turkey puke") ((EQ R 39) "whale waste") ((EQ R 40) "hippo vomit") ((EQ R 41) "pimple pus") ((EQ R 42) "dog phlegm") ((EQ R 43) "buffalo chips") ((EQ R 44) "weasel warts") ((EQ R 45) "shark snot") ((EQ R 46) "swamp mud") ((EQ R 47) "tripe") ((EQ R 48) "pig hickies") ((EQ R 49) "fish lips") ((EQ R 50) "cockroaches") ((EQ R 51) "dandruff flakes") ((EQ R 52) "rodent droppings") ((EQ R 53) "carrion") ((EQ R 54) "monkey zits") ((EQ R 55) "horse puckies") ((EQ R 56) "pig slop") ((EQ R 57) "sewer seepage") ((EQ R 58) "armpit hairs") ((EQ R 59) "ape puke") ((EQ R 60) "frog fat") ((EQ R 61) "bug parts") ((EQ R 62) "mule froth") ((EQ R 63) "hog livers") ((EQ R 64) "camel flops") ((EQ R 65) "sludge") ((EQ R 66) "pimple squeezings") ((EQ R 67) "toad tumors") ((EQ R 68) "sweat socks") ((EQ R 69) "bat guano") ((EQ R 70) "rat cysts") ((EQ R 71) "moose entrails") ((EQ R 72) "foot fungus") ((EQ R 73) "buzzard leavings") ((EQ R 74) "eel guts") ((EQ R 75) "maggot brains") ((EQ R 76) "sinus clots") ((EQ R 77) "stable sweepings") ((EQ R 78) "drain clogs") ((EQ R 79) "cigar butts") ((EQ R 80) "pigeon bombs") ((EQ R 81) "cow cud") ((EQ R 82) "snake innards") ((EQ R 83) "spitoon spillage") ((EQ R 84) "barf curds") ((EQ R 85) "maggot fodder") ((EQ R 86) "nose pickings") ((EQ R 87) "cow pies") ((EQ R 88) "puke lumps") ((EQ R 89) "hog swill") ((EQ R 90) "sinus drainage") ((EQ R 91) "lizard bums") )) )))) (DEF 'directional-verb '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 5)) (PRINC (COND ((EQ R 1) "puke") ((EQ R 2) "vomit") ((EQ R 3) "fart") ((EQ R 4) "piss") ((EQ R 5) "shout obscenities"))))) (DEF 'direction '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 3)) (PRINC (COND ((EQ R 1) " at you") ((EQ R 2) " in your face") ((EQ R 2) " in your general direction"))))) (DEF 'verb-phrase '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 5)) (COND ((EQ R 1) (directional-verb) (direction)) ((EQ R 2) (PRINC "cry")) ((EQ R 3) (PRINC "weep")) ((EQ R 4) (PRINC "scream")) ((EQ R 5) (PRINC "commit gross abominations")) ))) (DEF 'suggestion '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 6)) (PRINC (COND ((EQ R 1) "crawl back under a rock") ((EQ R 2) "go back whence you came from") ((EQ R 3) "die abd leave us in peace") ((EQ R 4) "go jump in a lake") ((EQ R 5) "take a long walk off a short pier") ((EQ R 6) "do yourself a favor and drop dead") )))) (DEF 'proper-name '(LAMBDA () (SETQ R (random 5)) (PRINC (COND ((EQ R 1) "Alan Turing") ((EQ R 2) "Marvin Minsky") ((EQ R 3) "Douglas Hofstadter") ((EQ R 4) "your best friend") ((EQ R 4) "a large crowd of graduate students")) ))) (DEF 'abuse '(LAMBDA () (PRINC "You ") (adj-phrase) (noun) (PRINC ". ") (SETQ RR (random 4)) (COND ((EQ RR 1) (PRINC "May ") (proper-name) (PRINC " ") (directional-verb) (direction) (PRINC ". ")) ((EQ RR 2) (PRINC "Whenever I see you, I want to ") (verb-phrase) (PRINC ". ")) ((EQ RR 3) (PRINC "Why don't you ") (suggestion) (PRINC ". ")) ((EQ RR 4) (PRINC "Please, ") (suggestion) (PRINC ". ")) ))) (randomize) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Adam Back speaks out on AP / was: Jim Bell? Never heard of him.
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back wrote: > I see lots of discussion of AP. However I see lots of people > discussing cautiously, couching it in terms of: > game theory, or intellectual possibility > or dismissing it as impractical. > > Perhaps I'm just imagining things, but it would seem to me that if one > had in the past made comments on the list suggesting that AP might > even be a _good thing_, Jim Bell's experience might make one think now > was be a good time to disclaim that one was talking theoretically. Jim *who*??? > I've viewed several posters comments on AP ever since Jim Bell got > involved in discussing anonymous markets in illegal services as being > careful to stay on the side of speech. > It is almost as if they are afraid to discuss openly their views on > the subject. This doesn't stop them from castigating those who post anonymously in regard to this subject. (As if not wanting to face 20 armed government agents who consider you "armed and dangerous" {i.e. shoot first and ask questions later} somehow negates their facts and logic.) > Democracy is one person one vote, however this is skewed in most > democracies by numerous factors: corporate lobbying, media influence, > and people who are easily influenced by media. > > AP is one $ one vote. Theoretically rich people could out-vote their > rivals. So the end result might well be, not the assassination of those involved, but the lessening of their power by virtue of depleting their funds, which leads to a more equal playing field. > Game theoretically: AP may be a good thing for you personally if the > reduction in power of groups targetted by AP bets was beneficial > enough to you to cancel out the negative aspects of you yourself being > targetted, and the negative aspects of living in the resulting > society. Green Peace might serve as a good example of this. A sufficient number of individuals contributing small amounts to the pool might not be able to negate the total funds available to whaling companies, but they might be able to impact the profit margin sufficiently that they would not be able to extinct the species. > I'm not too sure what the outcome would be. All sorts of people might get > targetted by all kinds of unanticipated groups of the populace. Will the > mafia join the fray, and offer insurance against having a contract taken out > on yourself? Will the government join in and take out hits on GAK > dissenters and free speech activists? Will corporations get rid of > embarassing whistleblowers? Will irritating media starlets get offed? > > We have no way of knowing whether the outcome would be "a good thing" by any > chosen metric. But the results would be a far cry more interesting than reruns of Gilligan's Island. TruthMonger (#7 - the 'sane' one)

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ElGamal
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim C[ocksucker] Mayhem is widely recognized on the net, because of his frequent vitriolic postings, as someone/thing ready to cut off his own penis to spite the testicles, although his friends recognize him better from the rear. /\ /..\ Tim C[ocksucker] Mayhem /_\/_\

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