December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: which remailers are safe?
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

00043.an(a)edtec.com wrote: > > does anyone know about edtec.com? > The problem is, does anyone really know who their remailer is? > Which ones are known absolutely to be run by safe operators, > and which ones are thought or known to be trolls by Unsavory Characters? The edtec.com remailer is run by communist agents within the CIA who share their informations with capitalist agents in Red China. I will phone you at your unlisted number later tonight, in order to discuss this matter further. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

1 0

Re: Reporters, Declan, Columns, Articles, and Angles
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Declan McCullagh wrote: > I've been on cypherpunks long before I got my press credentials. The > topics genuinely interest me, and this is one of the few jobs where I can > follow them full-time. If I wanted to make a decent living, I would have > taken that job as a management consultant instead. (Some of us aren't > independently wealthy, Tim.) Mercenary? Not quite. Journalists don't get > paid a whole hell of a lot. And Declan's articles genuinely interest 'me'. Having done a variety of 'reports' ranging from business reports to press reports, I recognize that they have to be written so as to be readable to those with no deep-rooted background in the events or issues being reported. While those who faithfully follow the CypherPunks list and the issued discussed here may find his reports somewhat shallow, I try to read them from the perspective of those who have an interest in the issues but only limited knowledge concerning them. From this perspective, Declan's reports do a good deal to enlighten the masses in regard to whatever issue he addresses. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

1 0

Re: on micro-explosions was Re: Black box attacks (was Re: Crypto-Dongel)
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:46 PM 4/8/97 -0700, shadow(a)count04.mry.scruznet.com wrote: >instead of minute quantities of explosives one could use extremely fine wires >suspended a small distance from the substrate to be destroyed. >Feed a short(below 3 ms) high current pulse(figure a 400w/s photoflash supply) >the wavefront from the exploding wire will be in the supersonic region. >this method may be used in lieu of explosives to achieve the effect of >a high order detonation. gee wonder if the >atf will forbid us capacitors and wires now :) Wavefronts are a possibility. The disadvantage of any capacitor based system is that capacitors discharge over time. If the system gets disconnected from the power supply, before long the device has to be activated or lose its effectiveness. "Use it or lose it". This may not be ideal for the particular application. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

1 0

WebWorld 29
by Bubba Rom Dos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1 0

Re: Black box attacks (was Re: Crypto-Dongel)
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:35 PM 4/9/97 -0400, Cynthia H. Brown wrote: >If you're trying to destroy a standard IC, why don't you just hook up the >power and ground pins to a 120V AC outlet? You are unlikely to have AC in a system by the time the tamper detector senses an intrusion. Similar problems apply to arcs and anything based on discharging a large capacitor. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

3 2

Re: KC post per Alec
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin, whose sense of humor indicates he may not, after all, be a government Bot, wrote: > On Thu, Apr 10, 1997 at 12:27:29PM -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: > [...] > > By the way, I'm staying out of this latest tamper-responding device > > argument. I worked on this at Intel, actually. But I wrote a bunch of > > fairly long articles on this the 5th, or maybe it was the 7th?, time this > > came up, circa 1993. Those who refuse to learn from the threads of the past > > are condemned to repeat them. > > Let's see, to which would I rather be condemned: participating in a > lively, current discussion; or digging through musty outdated archives? I regularly cruise back through my archives of the CypherPunks list from as far back as the early 90's and I rarely find them outdated. And rather than being pretentious, I usually find them 'portentious'. > Yes, we could continually mine the archives for words of wisdom from > past participants, and thus pay them homage -- especially since it is > so painfully obvious that is what they crave. But we should forgive > them this weakness, for at some lonely age we all start wondering > about our legacy. There is, however, a far cry of difference between those to whom homage is due, and those to whom it is not. As much as I may have railed against the fascist censorship of the 'moderation experiment' badly instituted by John Gilmore, I am not ungrateful for the years of time and effort that he spent in hosting the CypherPunks list, and stated so in a post to the list before it moved on to new homes. Not knowing Tim May personally, I cannot comment on the description of him in the press as 'crusty' (not knowing if it refers to his personality or his sexual hygene), but I can see how a review of some of his recent posts might suggest that he would not be out of place in a remake of 'Grumpy Old Men'. However, his propensity for taking an attitude of 'been there, done that' (and spanking young pups on the list) in no way negates the fact that he 'has', in fact, been there and done that, and that his (somewhat vague) pointers to sources of information in regard to various list issues might prove valuable to those who have enough interest in the issue to want to indulge in a little research on the matter. While the discussions of those currently active on the list may be enlightening, there are certainly other CypherPunks (some active, some inactive) who have dealt with current issues in the past, and done so from a perspective and knowledge base that are equal or superior to those who are participating in current discussions. While Tim is certainly an icon on the list, I haven't seen any signs of senility seeping in, just yet. {From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> Subject: Has anybody seen my shoes? I lost my shoes! } (OK, maybe a couple of signs..:) While I sometimes feel that the list would be better served by more of the long-time members being a little more specific in their aide to more inexperienced members seeking information, there is no doubt that much of the input they do provide is useful enough to point those seeking a better knowledge of crypto and crypto issues in directions which can bear much fruit if the individual is sincere enough to follow their pointers. Tim's legacy is already written in CypherStone, regardless of what he may or may not do in the future, as is that of Gilmore and Hughes. Despite whatever battles you or I may engage them in, in the future, we will be telling our grandchilren, "Hey, I <spit on>/<farted at>/ <kissed> him." when the movie 'Grouchy Old CypherPunks' hits the big screen. -- Toto "One TruthMonger down, four to go"

1 0

Re: NSA Intercepts Sent to Democratic National Committee
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: > Reports that the White House fed NSA phone intercepts to the Democratic > National Committee (DNC), for political purposes. > > The calls were between a New York businessman and a Latvian national. This reminds me how some stupid cunt on Usenet thought I was latvian and posted hundreds of kilobytes of flames about how stupid latvians were using me as an example. Of course, I am NOT latvian in any way. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

1 0

Re: "...markets are fundamentally chaotic, not efficient"? Really?
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent and Bob have been huffing and puffing and blowing each others's straw men down for a few stochastically-determined rounds.... >Sorry. It's Edgar Peters, "Chaos and Order in the Capital Markets", >John Wiley, 1991. I'm sure you will rush out and buy a copy :-) > >> > Chaotic is not the same as stochastic. ... >Clearly, you don't know what you are talking about. Strictly >speaking, chaotic behavior (as mathematically defined in chaos theory) >is completely *deterministic*, not random. By that definition, markets, whether for capital or assassins, are distinctly _not_ chaotic*, since most people's decisions [* Unless Life, The Universe, and Everything are really deterministic, but fate has decreed that I don't believe that...] about what stocks to buy/sell, and particularly the timing, are influenced by lots of random events - when they hear what information, whether they were busy doing something else when they heard, whether they'd just blown their disposable income on a new car because that freak windstorm dropped a tree on their car the same week the Post Office ate their car insurance payment, whether Alan Greenspan had a bad pizza the night before the quarterly interest rates came out or too much caffeine before his latest speech.... Much of the market is driven by the large institutional trading houses, and increasingly by their computer models, but a lot of it's random, and those functions that are chaotic are driven by random inputs. To the extent that the interactions are chaotic rather than linear, it is hard to develop good models of what the market might do and squeeze a few more bits of predictive information out of the vast quantity of observable random data; even with good computer models and Nuclear Physics PhDs on Wall Street there'll probably always be enough inefficiency left in the market for people to squeeze a few more megabucks worth of arbitrage out of it. [Of course, one of the most effective ways to make money in the market has always been to provide high-priced (or low-priced high-volume) investment advice to investors - and chaos theory has contributed not only to the profitability of some investors but to the buzzword-supply of hucksters in many fields, and selling buzzwords can make a lot of short-term money...] >> Most of the physicists hired by Wall Street were people who >> discovered market analogs to physical processes. The one physicist I knew well who went to Wall Street did it during the stock market boom of 1987. (Oops...) He was fortunate to avoid getting caught in one of the major fallouts of the '87 stock crash, which was the '87-'88 stock market job crash, though. >> > Obviously I can't "prove" markets are not efficient -- >> > that's an empirical matter, not a mathematical matter. The standard way to prove that a market is inefficient is to go tap some money out of it. Doing so does eliminate that particular inefficiency after a while, but there keep being enough people employed on Wall Street to suggest that there's always inefficiency. >> > "Whip me! Beat me! Savage me in Cypherpunks!" I didn't come here for an argument.... # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

1 0

[Key Markets] Re: "...markets are fundamentally chaotic, not efficient"?
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Crispin and Hettinga discussing efficient markets for key bailment: >> In a geodesic network, a single node can not possibly process all >> the information in the network. It chokes, and the network routes >> around it. >> You can bet that any key escrow agent would be innundated with >> surveillance requests We're not talking about a lot of bits, here. If you take care of the hard problem, which is getting people to hand their keys over to easily located key baliffs for no good business reason, the amount of retrieval work is really a lot smaller than the work of wiretapping all the communications and selecting targets. If the government expects to get the key owners to pay for bailment, and get retrievals for free in return for paper copies of warrants blue-ink-signed by judges, in triplicate, with hand-pressed notary seals, yes, that'd be a bottleneck. On the other hand, if the key bailiffs accept electronic requests, digitally signed by the judge's key, with electronic payment attached (whether DigiCash or EscrowBucks), the costs of the key bailment service are quite low and the profit on each request makes it worthwhile to expand the business to meet rapidly-increasing demand - cheap enough to the government to make it worth wiretapping more encrypted transactions. Since the Secretary gets to approve Key Recovery Agent Parties, he can disavow all knowledge of agents who insist on a real signature and want to be sure the request was signed by a real judge rather than by some clerk or cop using the Escrowed copy of the judge's key. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

1 0

New York court hears challenge to state Net-censorship law
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

********** Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:50:08 -0400 To: fight-censorship-announce(a)vorlon.mit.edu From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> Subject: FC: New York court hears challenge to state Net-censorship law Sender: owner-fight-censorship-announce(a)vorlon.mit.edu Reply-To: declan(a)well.com X-FC-URL: Fight-Censorship is at http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/ ************** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,811,00.html The Netly News Network April 8, 1997 The Bad Apple by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) To those of us who follow such events, it's a common enough scene: a squad of civil liberties attorneys troops into a federal courtroom to do righteous battle with an unconstitutional law. It happened this week in New York City, before a judge who finished hearing testimony yesterday in a case the ACLU brought against yet another state Net-censorship statute. The outcome in this lawsuit, however, will reverberate not just in the Empire State but also along the marble corridors of the U.S. Capitol. If the Supreme Court rules that the Communications Decency Act indeed violates the First Amendment, Congress hopes the New York case will guide it in revising the law so it passes constitutional muster. And given how the New York case is shaping up for the forces of unbridled free speech, that could be ugly. A group of 15 plaintiffs challenging the New York statute filed suit in January, arguing that that the law unconstitutionally stifles online speech and unduly interferes with interstate commerce on the Net. The measure, which took effect last November, amends the penal code by making it a crime to distribute online pictures or text "which is harmful to minors." Attorneys for the New York attorney general's office, who are defending the law, say that the "harmful to minors" legal standard isn't as heinous as the CDA's "indecency" ban -- it covers only sexually explicit pictures, not textual conversations. They also argue that filtering software could be used to help online purveyors of adult-only stuff comply with the state statute. Of course, as always, academics, librarians and artists point out that these attempts to limit online communications are overly broad and ill-defined. What I consider harmful to a kid might not be what you consider harmful, after all. Yesterday four witnesses testified for the plaintiffs, uniformly saying they felt threatened by the law. "I walk around with a healthy fear that every book in our collection would give someone the idea that we're giving harmful materials to minors," said Maurice Friedman, executive director of the Westchester Library System. Rudolf Kinsky, an artist from Poland, weighed in next: "I feel a chilling effect on my creativity. Someone could consider my art harmful to minors and could prosecute me. I came to this country [from Poland] looking for freedom of speech, not this." But yesterday's testimony seemed like the capper to an overwhelmingly poor showing the government made in its opening arguments last week. The government's case lasted a mere hour and was hardly persuasive. Among other gaffes, the state failed to slide a new legal standard -- "level of maturity" -- into the discussion; Judge Loretta Preska quickly rebuffed that attempt: "I don't read 'level of maturity' anywhere in the statute," she said, nettled. That wasn't the only time Preska pounced on the government. By the end of the three-day hearing, I was ready to bet good money on the ACLU winning yet another victory for the Net. But I have a confession to make. In January I claimed that "knocking down New York's law should be a virtual slam dunk," saying it suffers from all of the same problems as the CDA. But now, after reading a recent law review article by UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh, I'm not as sure. Volokh points out that the government could rely on the ready existence of ratings schemes, such as RSACi and PICS, which give publishers the ability to keep their material out of the hands of minors. He writes: "Under the existing doctrine, it would be constitutional to criminalize the display of any harmful-to-minors material which does not carry a correct rating." In other words, rate your web pages with RSACi or go to jail. (I can't see Microsoft, the Software Publishers Association and other RSACi boosters probably opposing this. I can smell another Microsoft world-domination plot brewing already...) Indeed, Volokh told me yesterday that he thinks the New York attorney general may have a workable case. "I think the state has a decent defense. They could say look, this rating imposes a burden but not a very high burden. It's like that imposed on a bookseller. All you're required to do is put on this label." Certainly, Net rating systems played a big part in the New York trial. Last Friday a government attorney asked: "In general, what would be more burdensome as a whole: requiring millions of web sites to rate their contents or just requiring a percentage of web sites that contain graphical objectionable material to rate their web sites?" What the government was trying to point out was that rating systems like RSACi -- that let you assign values to web pages based on nudity or violence -- are increasingly commonplace. If they're commonplace, then netizens may be able to comply with the New York law. And if netizens can comply with the law, then it may be constitutional. [...] "Harmful to minors is something people will talk about again and it's an option, but I don't want to say we'll be out there trumpeting it," says Connie Correll, spokeswoman for Rep. Rick White, a Republican congressman from Washington State -- whose district includes Microsoft. (Coincidence, or another Microsoft attempt at world domination? While you're pondering the question, keep in mind that White championed "harmful to minors" language in December 1995, but Congress rejected it in favor of the CDA's broader "indecency" ban.) Correll adds: "People are watching the New York case. I think it's going to be a real good indication." So do I. ### -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is public. To join fight-censorship-announce, send "subscribe fight-censorship-announce" to majordomo(a)vorlon.mit.edu. More information is at http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/ ------------------------- Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

1 0

Reactionaries
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto is another loser who pays for sick.sympatico.ca-ca because he lacks the mental capacity to gain net access as a perk of either employment or academic achievment. ,,, ($ $) -ooO-(_)-Ooo- To[homo]to

2 1

Assassination Politics
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto's abysmal grammar, atrocious spelling and feeble responses clearly identify him as a product of the American education system. >\\\|/< |_ ; (O) (o) -OOO--(_)--OOOo- T[h]o[mo]to

4 3

Premium Webhosting Services
by caseym＠genesisnetwork.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks for requesting the GENESIS Network website hosting information guide, to make this short so we do not take up your valuable time, please stop in and visit us at ... http://www.genesisnetwork.net " look for the red chili pepers " The rest is easy.

1 0

Reactionaries
by nobody＠hidden.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto is another loser who pays for sick.sympatico.ca-ca because he lacks the mental capacity to gain net access as a perk of either employment or academic achievment. ,,, ($ $) -ooO-(_)-Ooo- To[homo]to

2 1

APRIL BAY AREA CYPHERPUNKS MEETING AND BEACH PARTY, BONNY DOON
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The April Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting will be held jointly with the Clan MacDude Back To The Beach party, April 12 at Bonny Doon Beach. ( www.macdude.org , http://www.macdude.org/aprbeach.htm for event description.) Among other things, John Randolph was planning to do a Great Wall of Fire with his leftover moving boxes, and various other cypherpunks are part of the Glorious Clan, which is a generally silly organization. Cypherpunkish agenda: It's been a quiet month, except for Jim Bell. CFP was just after the March meeting. The UK is hyping Key Escrow. Bring some discussion topics that benefit from handwaving but don't need a blackboard :-) Ron Rivest and Carl Ellison have been doing some good work on key distribution. PGP Inc. is up to something. China is announcing plans for Hong Kong. It's also time to celebrate "Diffie-Hellman Would Have Been Patent-Free!" day, though of course they changed the patent laws to make it September. MacDude planned events Fizzball: A game involving cheap evil smelling beer and large stick Caber toss: Except that we use a surf board Haggis toss: Using an old Bean Bag Chair Siege engines: How far can you launch a can of fizzbeer? Bonny knees contest: Best legs in (or out) of a kilt, blindfolded judging. Dry Ice bombs: Dry Ice in plastic soda bottles, big boom. Fire: Fire pit as executed by the army corpse of engineers Music: Bardic and Filk around the burning pit of doom and cheer Food and drink: bring stuff for potlucking. Silly clothes: Plaid and hawaiian print. "During the day there will be many special events including a Caber toss (with a longboard), a contest for best legs in a kilt (judging with and without blindfolds), ritual sacrificing of consumer goods, sand fortress building and, of course, fizzball. There will be a potluck dinner on the beach featuring a whole roast pig. Time: All day, especially afternoon and dinner time. What to bring: Food, Toys, Silly People, Sand-tolerant musical instruments. Catapults are good, too... Directions to Bonny Doon: Bonny Doon Beach is about 8-9 miles north of Santa Cruz on Hwy 1 (still south of Davenport (but only just...)). Bonny Doon Road is inland. The beach is between the highway and the ocean. Park and walk over the hill to the ocean. (This hill is a steep begger, with an abandoned rail line across the top.) Map: http://www.vicinity.com/yt.hm?FAM=mapblast&CMD=GEO&SEC=find&IC=0%3A0%3A5&IC% 3A=Beach+Party&AD2=Highway+1+%26+Bonny+Doon+Rd.&AD3=Santa+Cruz%2C+CA ASCII MAP 1 | | Beach |------ Bonny Doon Road | | ~ ~ Santa Cruz # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

1 0

Information Systems Security Board
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On December 13, 1996, representatives from The National Information Infrastructure (NII) Task Force of The President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) held a meeting at Steptoe & Johnson in Washington, D.C. to discuss industry interest in developing an industry-run Information Systems Security Board (ISSB). Stewart Baker of Steptoe & Johnson discussed the antitrust laws and their application to the meeting, with particular emphasis on the need to avoid discussion of competitive conditions and to show openness to all interested participants. Guy Copeland, a representative from the Task Force, briefly discussed the ISSB model and the purposes of the meeting. Will Ozier, Chairman of the GSSP Committee, next discussed the efforts of the Generally Accepted System Security Principles (GSSP) project. Several representatives from the Administration expressed support for the concept of the ISSB. These representatives also indicated that the Administration would like private industry to take the lead in this area and is more than willing to take "a back seat" to such an effort. These representatives did request for periodic updates on any industry driven initiative in this area. ----- For full report and links to background documents: http://jya.com/issb.htm Thanks to RH.

1 0

EVENT REMINDER! Rep. Rick White on democracy.net tonight! (4/10/1997)
by Shabbir Safdar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

========================================================================= _ _ __| | ___ _ __ ___ ___ ___ _ __ __ _ ___ _ _ _ __ ___| |_ / _` |/ _ \ '_ ` _ \ / _ \ / __| '__/ _` |/ __| | | | | '_ \ / _ \ __| | (_| | __/ | | | | | (_) | (__| | | (_| | (__| |_| |_| | | | __/ |_ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|\___/ \___|_| \__,_|\___|\__, (_)_| |_|\___|\__| |___/ Government Without Walls _________________________________________________________________________ Update No.4 http:/www.democracy.net/ April 9 1997 _________________________________________________________________________ Table of Contents - REMINDER - Town Hall Meeting with Rep. Rick White (R-WA) THURS April 10. - Upcoming Events - About democracy.net _________________________________________________________________________ REPRESENTATIVE RICK WHITE BRINGS TOWN HALL MEETING TO CYBERSPACE Just a reminder that Rep. Rick White (R-WA) will be live online at democracy.net on Thursday April 10. We hope you will stop by, ask a few questions, and join Rep. White and Wired Magazine's Todd Lappin as we kick off the democracy.net Virtual Town Hall meeting project. Date: Thursday April 10, 1997 Time: 8:30 pm ET (5:30 pm Pacific) Event will last approx. 45 min Location: http://www.democracy.net You will need RealAudio and a telnet application (available free at http://www.democracy.net/software) Rep. White is the co-founder of the Congressional Internet Caucus, an opponent of the CDA, and a leading voice in Congress on Internet policy issues. White will discuss current Internet issues and respond to your questions. You can submit questions for Rep. White in advance by visiting http://www.democracy.net ___________________________________________________________________________ UPCOMING EVENTS Wednesday April 16 - 8:30 pm ET (5:30 pm Pacific) Representative Anna Eshoo (D-CA) Eshoo, who represents California's Silicon Valley, is co-sponsor of the SAFE bill to ease government controls on encryption technologies and has recently set up the first interactive "Virtual District Office" in the Congress. Join Representative Eshoo and democracy.net live online. Details are available at http://www.democracy.net/ ___________________________________________________________________________ ABOUT DEMOCRACY.NET democracy.net is a joint project of the Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT) and the Voters Telecommunications Watch (VTW) to explore ways of enhancing citizen participation in the democratic process via the Internet. To this end, democracy.net will host live, interactive cybercasts of Congressional Hearings and online town hall meetings with key policy makers. democracy.net is made possible through the generous support of WebActive, Public Access Networks, the Democracy Network, and DIGEX Internet. More information about the project and its sponsors can be found at http://www.democracy.net/about/ To receive democracy.net announcements automatically, please visit our signup form at http://www.democracy.net/ __________________________________________________________________________ end update no.4 04/09/97 ===========================================================================

1 0

Internet security code said vulnerable to hackers
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Sender: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com Reply-To: "Joseph M. Reagle Jr." <reagle(a)rpcp.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: Bulk Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:47:06 -0400 From: "Joseph M. Reagle Jr." <reagle(a)rpcp.mit.edu> To: Multiple recipients of <e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com> Subject: Internet security code said vulnerable to hackers This is one screwed up story. I don't know what they are actually trying to say, but the guy from MasterCard isn't helping. (I stick my two derisive comments into the story. <smile>) Forwarded Text ---- ATLANTA, April 9 (Reuter) - The new security protocol for safeguarding credit-card transactions on the Internet may have to change because the underlying cryptography is too easy to hack through and too difficult to upgrade, an expert said Wednesday. Steve Mott, senior vice president of electronic commerce and new ventures for MasterCard International, said it could take hackers as little as a year to break the industry's standard encryption code, which is supposed to render credit-card numbers unreadable to outsiders on the Internet's World Wide Web. For that reason, the consortium of technology companies and creditors that has spent two years years developing the Secure Electronic Transaction (SET) protocol may switch to a faster encryption system called Elliptic Curve, which is produced by Certicom Corp. The first complete version of SET, known as SET 1.0, will be available to software makers June 1 with core cryptography provided by RSA Data Security, a unit of Security Dynamics Technologies Inc. ``RSA is a very good starting point. But we suspect that in a year or two, the Kevin Mitnicks of the world will start to figure out ways to hack it,'' Mott said. Mitnick is one of the most notorious computer hackers. [This is stupid mixing "hackers" with key lengths. Kevin Mitnick doesn't have didley to do with encryption. He just grabbed a huge CC plain text file off of netcom file system. Should have said Ian Goldberg, or the folks at Ecole Polytechnique in Paris or MIT.] ``The only way you scale an RSA is to add a lot more bits. You add a lot more bits and it becomes more complex software in terms of the interaction of the transaction messages. That's part of what's taken SET so long to start with.'' [This is a hoot! Adding a longer key length makes the software more complex! And THIS is what has held up SET!!!?? <grin>] MasterCard has been helping put together merchants with its own member banks for SET pilot projects in Denmark, Japan, Taiwan, South Africa and the United States. Mott told a news conference at the Internet Commerce Expo that the Elliptic Curve encryption system would make a better encryption core. In fact, he said it would have been chosen in the first place if developers had been known about it. ``It will fit on a chip card. I think its 160 bits equals security to 1,024 bits of RSA,'' the credit industry executive said. ``We anticipate putting it into some SET 1.0 pilots in the very near future this year in the U.S.'' Far from being disturbed by the possibility of hackers getting through the current SET cryptography, Mott said SET's developers would ``give them an award and a ribbon and then embody whatever they did as part of the improvements'' in the next version of security standards. ``The current version for SET is as safe as anybody can make it,'' he said. End Forwarded Text ---- _______________________ Regards, A man's dreams are an index to his greatness. -Zadok Rabinwitz Joseph Reagle http://web.mit.edu/reagle/www/ reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E ---------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd: "Digital Money Online" <http://www.intertrader.com/library/DigitalMoneyOnline> Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$? Help pay for it! <http://www.shipwright.com/beg.html> For e$/e$pam sponsorship, mail Bob: <mailto:rah@shipwright.com> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

3 2

Cato/Brookings conference on "Regulation in the Digital Age"
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:59:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Cato/Brookings conference on "Regulation in the Digital Age" [Robert Bork weighs in on the CDA -- who can pass that up? This promises to be a fabulous conference. --Declan] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 05:35:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Solveig Bernstein <sberns(a)cato.org> To: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> Subject: Digital Regulation Conference Declan, would you please post this to fight-censorship with an invitation to repost freely. Cato and Brookings have a really interesting conference lined up for April 17/18 in DC. I'm particularly looking forward to seeing Bob Corn-Revere debating former Judge Bork on content controls. We've decided to waive the registration fee for students, professors, teachers, policymakers, and those in the public interest community. Feel free to join us--email Julie to rsvp at jbriggs(a)cato.org or call (202) 789-5296. REGISTRATION FEE HAS BEEN WAIVED FOR NONPROFITS, EDUCATORS, STUDENTS, AND POLICYMAKERS!!! **************************************************************** C A T O . B R O O K I N G S @ C A P I T A L_H I L T O N . A P R I L 1 7 / 1 8 / 1 9 9 7 Regulation in the Digital Age Schedule of Speakers THURSDAY, APRIL 17, 1997 8:00 - 8:30 a.m. Registration 8:30 - 8:45 a.m. Welcoming Remarks: Robert Litan, Director, Economic Studies Program, Brookings Institution, and William Niskanen, Cato Institute 8:45 - 10:15 a.m. Does the Digital Age Require a New Approach to Regulation (If So, What Is It)? Michael Katz, University of California, Berkeley Lawrence J. White, New York University Peter Pitsch, Pitsch Communications Richard E. Wiley, Wiley, Rein & Fielding 10:15 - 10:30 a.m. Break 10:30 - 12:00 a.m. Does the Digital Age Require a New Approach to Antitrust? Donald I. Baker, Baker & Miller Robert E. Hall, Stanford University Timothy F. Bresnahan, Stanford University Thomas Hazlett, University of California, Davis 11:30 - 1:00 p.m. Luncheon and Luncheon Address: "Implications of the Digital Age for Democratic Government: A Dialogue," Thomas E. Mann, The Brookings Institution, and William Niskanen, Cato Institute 2:00 a.m. - 3:45 p.m. Making Global Commerce Happen (including Intellectual Property, Encryption, Privacy, UCC Contracts, Anti-fraud, and Tax Issues) Anne Branscomb, Harvard University Dorthy E. Denning, Georgetown Computer Science David Post, Georgetown University Law School Kenneth W. Dam, University of Chicago Law School Whitfield Diffie, Sun Microsystems 3:45 - 4:00 p.m. Break 4:00 - 5:15 p.m. Professional Licensing Joel Hyatt, Hyatt Legal Services Robert Waters, Arent Fox Jay Sanders, American Telemedicine Association 5:45 - 6:15 Reception 6:15 - 8:00 p.m. Dinner and Dinner Address: "Regulation the Telecosm," George Gilder, The Discovery Institute FRIDAY, APRIL 18, 1997 8:30 - 9:30 a.m. Regulating Content (Culture, Pornography, and Libel) Robert Bork, American Enterprise Institute Patrick Vittet-Phillip, European Union Bob Corn-Revere, Hogan & Hartson Nadine Strossen, ACLU (invited) 9:30 - 10:30 a.m. Standards and Interoperability Cynthia Beltz, American Enterprise Institute Jeff Rohlfs, Strategic Policy Institute Daniel L. Brenner, National Cable Television Association 10:30-10:45 a.m. Break 10:45 - 11:45 a.m. Ensuring Access Robert W. Crandall, The Brookings Institution Jonathan Sallett, MCI Lawrence Gasman, Cato Institute Lawrence Strickling, Ameritech 11:45 - 1:15 p.m. Luncheon and Luncheon Address: "Birth of the Digital Nation," Louis Rossetto, Editor & Publisher of Wired. News media please email or call Robin Hulsey at (202) 789-5293. THE CAPITAL HILTON 16th & K STREETS, NW WASHINGTON, DC Click above for pricing and registration information Return to the Cato Home Page Solveig Bernstein, Esq. (202) 789-5274 (202) 842-3490 (fax) Assistant Director of Telecommunications & Technology Studies Cato Institute 1000 Mass. Ave. NW Washington, DC 20001

1 0

Re: [NTSEC] GOOD GRIEF! re:Hack' punches hole in Microsoft NT s (fwd)
by Ray Arachelian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "If you're gonna die, die with your|./|\. ..\|/..|sunder(a)sundernet.com|boots on; If you're gonna try, just |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!" |.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|..... ======================== http://www.sundernet.com ========================= For with those which eternal lie, with strange eons even death may die. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:10:04 +0000 From: Alan C. Ramsbottom <acr(a)als.co.uk> To: Jos Visser <josv(a)osp.nl> Cc: ntsecurity(a)iss.net Subject: Re: [NTSEC] GOOD GRIEF! re:Hack' punches hole in Microsoft NT s > I am currently reviewing the write-up to include the newest > relevant information.I had considered the possibility that you could > brute-force attack the password space. However, the possible number > of passwords is quite bi. Let us assume that the average password > contains about 40 bits of information, the entie plausible passowrd > space then is 2^40 = 1099511627776 possible passwords. Suppose you > could hash and store 1,000,000 passwords each secondthe brute-force > approach takes more then 12 days to calculate and requires about > 16 GB diskspace to store the results (uncompressed). > > Could you please point me the errors in my calculations so I can fix > the article asap? Certainly.. Theoretically, for a "complete" brute-force attack on the DES hashes we need to consider a 56 bit ( 7 chars x 8 bits) password space. This space is the maximum we have to worry about because of the 14 char password to two independent 7 char DES keys split. The timing overheads of checking both the 8 char hashes during a brute-force attack are relatively trivial. Now the crunch. Theory is fine, but in the real world there are constraints on the password space - in reality it gets much smaller e.g. 1) chars below 0x20 can't be entered in the password dialogue box 2) alphas are uppercased prior to being used as DES keys so you can also ignore 0x61 to 0x7A. Correcting the case of any alphas after finding a LanMan password is a quick and relatively trivial task using MD4. That much is guaranteed even if you (reasonably in 99.99% of cases) start throwing away characters that are difficult to quickly enter on a keyboard e.g. anything that needs an ALT-0-nnn sequence to enter (more or less everything above 0x80 subject to country). Finally 3-4Gb disks are now relatively inexpensive so the amount of diskspace required for a precomputed attack is not much of an obstacle. It has been also been suggested that if you are short of diskspace you could always keep sequentially sorted sections of the precomputed file on a backup tape. Then, as you mention above there is compression. My main point is that you don't need an exceptionally fast machine or impossible amount of disk space. If I can write code to do this then you can guarantee that other people have, and that theirs is both cleverer and runs faster ;-) "Greater password complexity" is a good idea for many reasons but not much help in this specific case. The LanMan hashes are simply far too easy to attack and you should concentrate your defences in preventing access to them. Finally, we need to put this in proper perspective - this attack and the associated IE 3.0 SMB and NTLM problems can EASILY BE AVOIDED with a few simple network administration policies. --Alan-- acr(a)als.co.uk PS. Haven't seen my original message turn up on NTSecurity yet so I don't suppose this will.

1 0

RE: New York court hears challenge to state
by ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Remember that the Internet is an international playground and while the U.S. Government may say "Rate your site or go to jail" or worse yet filter traffic that is not rated (blind censorship), the rest of the world may go on its merry way and not even flinch (crypto is a good example). Sounds like a state-run New York Times. The phrase "harmful to children" also means different things in different countries. Maybe the idea is that countries and/or sites that do not rate their content will be blocked from accessing U.S. sites (immigration law on the net). Other countries could do the same in retaliation. That would mean the loss of access to a lot of information for all sides. "Excuse me sir, I can't let your packet pass unless I've seen your Net passport and visa". And what happens to all those international sites hosted on U.S. territory? If they were to move out it would mean a loss of $$ for U.S. companies (again). Also, don't forget that state laws would impede interstate commerce (loss of revenue for the state). I see the word "boycott" in my future. Somebody please slap the person who said the Cold War was over. I'm glad that somebody has finally discovered time travel. Unforunately its in back in time not forward! Art Grapa agrapa(a)banamex.com ---------- From: Declan McCullagh To: ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA; cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: New York court hears challenge to state Date: Wednesday, April 09, 1997 7:33PM Microsoft Mail v3.0 IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note De: Declan McCullagh Para: ARTURO GRAPA YSUNZA cypherpunks(a)toad.com Asunto: New York court hears challenge to state Fecha: 1997-04-09 19:33 Prioridad: 3 Ident. del mensaje: 9E367DA622B0D011AF8D006097838CEB ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -- ********** Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:50:08 -0400 To: fight-censorship-announce(a)vorlon.mit.edu From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> Subject: FC: New York court hears challenge to state Net-censorship law Sender: owner-fight-censorship-announce(a)vorlon.mit.edu Reply-To: declan(a)well.com X-FC-URL: Fight-Censorship is at http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/ ************** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,811,00.html The Netly News Network April 8, 1997 The Bad Apple by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) To those of us who follow such events, it's a common enough scene: a squad of civil liberties attorneys troops into a federal courtroom to do righteous battle with an unconstitutional law. It happened this week in New York City, before a judge who finished hearing testimony yesterday in a case the ACLU brought against yet another state Net-censorship statute. The outcome in this lawsuit, however, will reverberate not just in the Empire State but also along the marble corridors of the U.S. Capitol. If the Supreme Court rules that the Communications Decency Act indeed violates the First Amendment, Congress hopes the New York case will guide it in revising the law so it passes constitutional muster. And given how the New York case is shaping up for the forces of unbridled free speech, that could be ugly. A group of 15 plaintiffs challenging the New York statute filed suit in January, arguing that that the law unconstitutionally stifles online speech and unduly interferes with interstate commerce on the Net. The measure, which took effect last November, amends the penal code by making it a crime to distribute online pictures or text "which is harmful to minors." Attorneys for the New York attorney general's office, who are defending the law, say that the "harmful to minors" legal standard isn't as heinous as the CDA's "indecency" ban -- it covers only sexually explicit pictures, not textual conversations. They also argue that filtering software could be used to help online purveyors of adult-only stuff comply with the state statute. Of course, as always, academics, librarians and artists point out that these attempts to limit online communications are overly broad and ill-defined. What I consider harmful to a kid might not be what you consider harmful, after all. Yesterday four witnesses testified for the plaintiffs, uniformly saying they felt threatened by the law. "I walk around with a healthy fear that every book in our collection would give someone the idea that we're giving harmful materials to minors," said Maurice Friedman, executive director of the Westchester Library System. Rudolf Kinsky, an artist from Poland, weighed in next: "I feel a chilling effect on my creativity. Someone could consider my art harmful to minors and could prosecute me. I came to this country [from Poland] looking for freedom of speech, not this." But yesterday's testimony seemed like the capper to an overwhelmingly poor showing the government made in its opening arguments last week. The government's case lasted a mere hour and was hardly persuasive. Among other gaffes, the state failed to slide a new legal standard -- "level of maturity" -- into the discussion; Judge Loretta Preska quickly rebuffed that attempt: "I don't read 'level of maturity' anywhere in the statute," she said, nettled. That wasn't the only time Preska pounced on the government. By the end of the three-day hearing, I was ready to bet good money on the ACLU winning yet another victory for the Net. But I have a confession to make. In January I claimed that "knocking down New York's law should be a virtual slam dunk," saying it suffers from all of the same problems as the CDA. But now, after reading a recent law review article by UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh, I'm not as sure. Volokh points out that the government could rely on the ready existence of ratings schemes, such as RSACi and PICS, which give publishers the ability to keep their material out of the hands of minors. He writes: "Under the existing doctrine, it would be constitutional to criminalize the display of any harmful-to-minors material which does not carry a correct rating." In other words, rate your web pages with RSACi or go to jail. (I can't see Microsoft, the Software Publishers Association and other RSACi boosters probably opposing this. I can smell another Microsoft world-domination plot brewing already...) Indeed, Volokh told me yesterday that he thinks the New York attorney general may have a workable case. "I think the state has a decent defense. They could say look, this rating imposes a burden but not a very high burden. It's like that imposed on a bookseller. All you're required to do is put on this label." Certainly, Net rating systems played a big part in the New York trial. Last Friday a government attorney asked: "In general, what would be more burdensome as a whole: requiring millions of web sites to rate their contents or just requiring a percentage of web sites that contain graphical objectionable material to rate their web sites?" What the government was trying to point out was that rating systems like RSACi -- that let you assign values to web pages based on nudity or violence -- are increasingly commonplace. If they're commonplace, then netizens may be able to comply with the New York law. And if netizens can comply with the law, then it may be constitutional. [...] "Harmful to minors is something people will talk about again and it's an option, but I don't want to say we'll be out there trumpeting it," says Connie Correll, spokeswoman for Rep. Rick White, a Republican congressman from Washington State -- whose district includes Microsoft. (Coincidence, or another Microsoft attempt at world domination? While you're pondering the question, keep in mind that White championed "harmful to minors" language in December 1995, but Congress rejected it in favor of the CDA's broader "indecency" ban.) Correll adds: "People are watching the New York case. I think it's going to be a real good indication." So do I. ### ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This list is public. To join fight-censorship-announce, send "subscribe fight-censorship-announce" to majordomo(a)vorlon.mit.edu. More information is at http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/ ------------------------- Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

1 0

Checkout the crypto in IE 4.0
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Maybe people have already noticed but the pre-release IE 4.0 has S/MIME encryption and signatures built in. I'm trying to set it up as we speak. Unfortunately Outlook Express does not seem to pick up the Outlook '97 address book so I haven't been able to add the sig to this message :-) Phillip M. Hallam-Baker Visitng Scientist MIT Laboratory for Artificial Intelligence. hallam(a)ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/hallam/hallam.html

1 0

Re: Information Systems Security Board
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"John Young" <jya(a)pipeline.com> wrote in article <5iil75$n93(a)life.ai.mit.edu>... > On December 13, 1996, representatives from The National > Information Infrastructure (NII) Task Force of The President's > National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee > (NSTAC) held a meeting at Steptoe & Johnson in Washington, D.C. > to discuss industry interest in developing an industry-run > Information Systems Security Board (ISSB). > > Stewart Baker of Steptoe & Johnson discussed the antitrust laws > and their application to the meeting, with particular emphasis on > the need to avoid discussion of competitive conditions and to show > openness to all interested participants. I would consider such a proposal from Suart Baker to involve an unfortunate conflict of interest. As one of the people who makes his living as a fixer enabling people to comply with the export control laws he does not have an interest in pressing for reform of the anti-crypto regulations that stop computer security sdystems being used. He is like the owner of a NYC taxi medallion. His 'property' has no legitimate value but he has an interest to continue the legal distortions that keep it in place. Phill

1 0

Re: Reporters, Declan, Columns, Articles, and Angles
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >Nothing personal. I just get tired of hearing about "story angles" and > >"columns." Frankly, the only people I want to communicate with are those > >who take the time to read this and related lists....the sheeple who read > >about the Net in Time and Newsweek and their ilk are not worth > >communicating with. They will be spaded under. > > But what if Declan were writing for the Economist... I have a lot more respect for Duncan's style than certain Economist articles. A case in point was a little hatchet job some journo-hack did on Sorros' piece on the open society in the Atlantic monthly. I consider that Sorros has demopnstrated empirically a knowledge of markets that few economists and no journalists can claim to match yet the economist decided to have a go at him. In any case since the piece was principally about political philosophy the Economist interpretation was plain wrong. Phill

2 1

Re: [PGP-USERS] BestCryp NP
by Alec 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From: GWNapier(a)aol.com >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:11:41 -0400 (EDT) >To: pgp-users(a)rivertown.net >Resent-Message-ID: <"h3W-hD.A.rVC.jmUTz"@rivertown> >Reply-To: pgp-users(a)rivertown.net > >To Fred and His Question About BestCrypt NP. I received this today and >thought it might be of interest. > >>Someone asked on the list about the possibility to transparently access >>encrypted data on a CD. SFS doesn't allow this, but I yesterday found >>a software for Windows 95 that does. > >>BestCrypt NP costs $115, the home page is www.jetico.sci.fi. >>They even have our Mr Peter Gutmann on their credits list. BestCrypt >>supports BlowFish, DES (boo) and GOST, a russian standard with >>256bit key. It supports all fixed, removable or networked media, >>allowing upto 6 "containers" be open simultaneously. > >>Although the company seems like Finnish, they don't speak Finnish and >>I don't get even a discount for telling you this :) Just thought some >>of you might be interested. > >>Jyrki Petsalo

2 1