December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: New Laws in Oregon - "Land of the Legal betatest"
by Lee Gibbon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Why do you want Congress to function? "The best government is one that governs least" (Who am I (mis)quoting?). If Congress doesn't do much, we're better off - especially if we had sunset clauses in every law... Assuming a government like ours, the problem I see with "eliminating 90% of the sitting legislature" is the question of who really rules? I favor term limits - only one term per position. I don't like the idea of professional politicians. But, where would the power reside? The bureaucracy and the political parties? -Sounds dangerous to me. Lee <standard disclaimers> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Anderson [SMTP:randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu] > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 1997 10:07 AM > To: roy(a)scytale.com > Cc: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net > Subject: Re: New Laws in Oregon - "Land of the Legal betatest" > > > On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, Roy M. Silvernail wrote: > > > > How do you propose to deal with such things as the > Telecommunications Act > > > of 1996 (which incidently included the CDA)? I can see a problem > where > > > one sentence or clause gets thrown out of a major bill (say a > compromise > > > budget, that someone screwed up one minor ammendment), and if you > have > > > that happen 3 times in 6 years, you've lost 90% of your senators! > I'm not > > > saying that your idea isn't without merit, just that it's got a > few > > > problems that strike me as somewhat major.. > > > > Please elaborate, as I can't see _any_ problem with eliminating 90% > of > > the sitting legislature. > > You've completely missed my point. This would be an on-going problem. > Congress can only function with some idea of compromise in it. When > you're passing budgets, especially the kind of budgets we have right > now, > they get big and complicated, I can't see that changing significantly, > even with a massive turnover of members. But having no consistency in > Congress at all, even for some "good" reps would be horrible. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Ryan Anderson - <Pug Majere> "Who knows, even the horse might > sing" > Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.." > randerso(a)ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the > USA > PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -

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Re: spam on this list
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 23 Jun 97 at 22:52, Jason William RENNIE wrote: > wouldn't make it worth it. Doesn't aybody in the US want to take it up > and kill spam once and for all ?? You only need the legal precedent > set. Spam is free speech... We, here in the USofA don't want any new laws, thank you. We've got way more than we need right now. Spam will never die! Spam is free speech! Ross =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

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Child Porn 3 [JPG]
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here, yet again, is the same Time-Life child pornography picture, which is encrypted with the public keys of people I don't know from squat. Nonetheless, they are now co-conspirators in the Time-Life/Cypherpunks child pornography ring. Since they are unwitting participants in the spread of this filth across the internet, I would suggest that they contact law enforcement officials and offer to testify against the cypherpunks and employees of Time-Life in return for immunity or reduced sentences ending in ... -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 MessageID: ocOxykyVcWoyrQN2vOJ2T9mmTq48/8hk hQDMA7p625ZXl6gLAQX9HnpFayBZ6FQeROihy199W3TqvalvchuXr7tHLOHtkAzF 2oZchrULSG6lty6RhDl+QFHrjR1G+CvhRjlaeCgdQPf4p5aftX4wbO7vjuIR5lRy AdZaa28e+jmFHICifJJCzqBU21QoqRPdQAGBHx97q/DG7ePc3CVXSWgYFS1z4mw3 W5mmH+hWNDwuU+ud59P5PJyaLEwccNSFSgLbDJARziRsx2Hm9jQanNbqUlIRoG/G I2ARxBIPv5WOiBEAlqd7hQCMA6/vX3KXbtf5AQP/d1FY5zK+thdykCoXerzwJBcw zzSUzP56cRc/LCv8iOBoBmdI5QSvH5D+SaVURKUlfnn1dslfJ4v6idENAaszyrmm EOygBK1RQg5kBUKICSKEjZcvQoHxrA7CKc6AC3iJM9lmyUDLgcgkQ9t3FF7BJwZY BA+cwfk/p8TLfpXKbtmFAKgDpkUZM3r0u4UBBN9AimRvDgNVTPBhpBhWCAAH4vIO vgxqojUKJEdVKsez6U9fQ7FNTZZh3qkanvWmj06+6XUbJFYh8SOuNm2ONZCT0VTo 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4 3

Re: Anti-SPAM SPAM should be banned by Congress
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 23 Jun 97 at 10:29, Tim May wrote: > That's why I want a law banning your anti-SPAM SPAM from being > spammed into my mailbox! Anti-SPAM SPAM is free speech. God, this whole free speech thing is way out of control. Legislation is in order, and fast, before it gets any worse. And this "free speech" thing seems to be ALL OVER the internet. Something needs to be done. Ross =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

1 0

Re: Devisive comments [sic]
by Alec McCrackin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 10:17 PM 6/20/97 -0700, you heatedly wrote: |Take a gander at this out-of-the-blue and off-the-wall thing I just got |from Georgia's finest. Proves to me that what they say about Georgia is |right. Hey, Tim. Fill me in. Perhaps other list members would like to know also. What do _they_ say about Georgia? And to whom do _they_ say it? And just who are _they_? Or was this just Tim in a snit? Alec BTW the most recent Mixmaster remailer (remailer(a)anon.efga.org) and nym server are in Ga. Try them out, Tim, when you want to blow off some steam without appearing foolish in public. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM67T3iKJGkNBIH7lAQHRKwP9HmtQIDMeB57Oj4zvwRmh/JizkcIi9Q0D WAYPrDXNxGDibBZs6EnXMBar3ltY1ZyspXYyf39w69DY02WCIBFfpuw1Cj4LhXpb Ws0LhszVWaG75voqDbDLGkCl37XfGfrHUW3osftLJ3hV3HaAuSWGPImMKQuVb8Xm xjJH3SDCqJc= =D1ql -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Re: Canarypunk: Jim Bell in a coalmine
by Michael Myers 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 11:53 PM 6/22/97 -0700, Blanc wrote: >Having said that, I'll consider the possibility, if visitors are allowed on >weekends. Perhaps several cpunks could go (if anyone else around here >interested? (Wei, Joel, I know you're just dying to go <g>)), if more than >one visitor at a time is allowed . Well, I work in Tacoma, and have thought of visiting...PNW area physical meet, anyone? A jail is a reasonably appropriate setting, If this horrid legislation isn't stopped, just think of it as house-hunting ;-> Has John Young sussed out the visitor situation yet? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQCVAgUBM67bmpmFdfLoqDWNAQF9QAQAl5M339rLKpfWMesrSvXoo4J/xd0F/Dlu gtEiTkKNR1g0BzbaSdyYOxG+YV2EwP9f8nTWHCtI5T7Y+ha7N2sdKzHy+QrAKS4/ JbL9eBVw4cEcsRBGYMFZIWQilw2IHzlRNPCpmWRQsy30k5HYSIXqOqstiKj/Vi1P TI8JgQnyeYU= =nzca -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- /```````Instead of being born again, why not just GROW UP?`````````\ Michael Myers Vote Libertarian....you'll sleep better! Don't like abortion? Don't have one. Don't like guns? Don't buy one. blackavr(a)aa.net root(a)crowncollege.com PGP public key on keyservers \_________________ http://www.aa.net/~blackavr/____________________/

2 1

New Middleman Mixmaster
by Medusa Admin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have just set up a new mixmaster with the following key. It's purely a middleman remailer, and hence will only forward mail to other mixmasters. If it's used as the last link in the chain, or you send a request for the key or statistics information, this will be sent out via a randomly chosen remailer. Because all mail to the remailer goes through the nymserver as well as my system, you should expect latency of a couple of hours. Here is the public key for Medusa Remailer =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= medusa medusa(a)weasel.owl.de d34e77b9c0e4f52a51767c20a9e9b942 2.0.4b1 MC -----Begin Mix Key----- d34e77b9c0e4f52a51767c20a9e9b942 258 AATU6i9jf6U7CE08LTZA+JOUQzRd4RLPTW1v+PB3 ju0+oxGgLvPGAQ6N6ZlVnFGV8NpbYjc08S/dLlik T41DcQcPoi9rCy9UgzWh8WcsxGr6GsCTgXrTyhOw rw2WRJI3S/GH6+Zdexvw4+8ABtn8nGzh0vftpzUo Jl+dX+kiSsbGvQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB -----End Mix Key-----

1 0

Comparing Cryptographic Key Sizes
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Below is a explanation of the meaning of cryptographic key sizes which started as an explanation I wrote for a journalist friend of mine, on being asked about how relatively secure a system using DES and RSA (SET) was as compared to netscapes export version of SSL. I've re-written it to make it more general in scope. One of the most common errors I see in news stories about cryptographic breaks is to (say) compare 1024 bit RSA keys with 56 bit symmetric keys as if the two key sizes are directly comparable. This new document is intended to be simple and understandable to give people a handle on how to describe and compare cryptographic systems strengths. This document by design glosses over some details, where I think this is reasonable. It could use some criticism. If you are not that crypto aware, does it make sense to you? If you are crypto aware, what do you think of my off the cuff estimates of hardness? I wrote it with journalists in mind. If you are a journalist and find it useful, feel free to quote parts/all of it without attribution. Adam Comparing Cryptographic Key Sizes There are two types of key sizes: public key (sometimes called asymmetric key) and symmetric keys. Examples of public key algorithms are RSA, and Diffie-Hellman. Examples of symmetric key algorithms are RC4, DES, IDEA. You can not directly compare public key lengths (for example RSA keys) with symmetric key lengths (DES, RC4). This is an important point which confuses many people. For example 40 bit RC4 (a symmetric key cipher) can be broken in a few hours with a few hundred workstations. 40 bit RSA (a public key cipher) can be broken in a fraction of a second on one PC. RSA keys need to be I'd guess around 350 bits to be equivalent in strength to 40 bit RC4. 56 bit DES is probably roughly similar to 512 bit RSA in hardness to break. Symmetric keys sizes are easy to reason with: one more bit in key length is twice as hard to break, for the same algorithm. It is more complicated estimating the hardness to break of public key (say RSA) keys of varying sizes as they get harder more gradually than symmetric keys. This is why public key systems have longer keys, you need more bits to get the same security level. Most systems use a mixture of public and symmetric key ciphers. This is because public key ciphers are _slow_. Symmetric key ciphers are fast, and so are used in combination with public key systems to speed up the combined system. Public key systems are used because of the advantages of public key management they make possible. When considering the strength of a system using two ciphers one public key and one symmetric key, the strength of the system is equal to the strength of the weakest link. For example: consider the export version of SSL, as shipped in the export version of Netscape browsers and servers. It uses 512 bit RSA, and 40 bit RC4. It is easier to crack 40 bit RC4 than it is to crack 512 bit RSA, so export SSL can be broken by breaking the 40 bit RC4 component. Ian Goldberg recently broke a 40 bit RC5 key himself with Berkeley univ machines in 3.5 hours. 40 bit RC4 could be broken in a similar amount of time. 512 bits RSA is not enough either, and you can rest assured that the NSA, other governments' secret services, and any corporation or organised crime group with sufficient funds can break it. 512 bits is likely within reach of a distributed internet effort, of similar or smaller scale than the recent DES breaking. 56 bit DES is harder to break than 40 bit RC4 (SSL), from the number bits you might think it would be 65536 times harder, but it's less than that because DES is faster than RC4. In software it's about 5 times faster, so that means breaking DES in software is about 10000 times harder than breaking 40 bit RC4 (as used in export SSL) in software. But, if the Russian Mafia, or a corporation involved in industrial espionage wanted to break 56 bit DES they would not do it in software. They would build a special purpose piece of hardware which was designed only to break DES. DES was designed to be fast in hardware, it is a relatively slow ciphers in software. About 10 years ago now Michael Wiener made a design for such a DES breaking machine. He estimated it would cost $10,000,000 to build a machine which would break a 56 bit DES encrypted message a few hours. His machine was scalable, pay more money, break the key faster, pay less take longer. The estimate was that could build one with enough DES key searching units to break it in a day for $1,000,000. That was 10 years ago. 10 years is a long time in the computer industry. Nowadays you build the machine more cheaply as chip technology has progressed, and computers are much faster per $. Estimates are around $100,000 to build the machine (neglecting hardware engineers consultancy fees). Everyone expects that NSA, GCHQ, SCSSI have built such a machine for $100,000+. This is obvious because the NSA and SCSSI allow export of 56 bit DES. $100,000 is not much money for a secret service. Algorithms using 40 bit keys aren't secure at all, past a very superficial casual level of protection. Systems using DES, such as SET are only secure against organisations who can't raise $100,000 and can't find people who know lots about crypto and hardware design. $100,000 is not much money for a secret service. It's not much for the Rusian Mafia either. END

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Re: McCain Talks Crypto
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:23 AM 6/23/97 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: I still think that there is a huge power behind the effort - and that is based in dollars. The child-porn/national security issues just make it understandable for the CNN digest of reality, and the clueless among the Government. Appealing to those arguments with compelling counterarguments in the same terms will effect results, perhaps, but only if big dollar$ are behind it. Money will change the course of events here, and I doubt anything else will. > >Sigh. Make the laws and then work out the details -- I don't think so :-) > >However, if his real concern IS national security, then perhaps >he can be reached - not only is our real national security based on >the economy, but any vaguely competent foreign government or >major terrorist organization has access to all the crypto they need: >unlike fully assembled missiles and plutonium, which are hard to get and >hard to smuggle across borders, crypto is easy to buy anywhere in the US, >and the Enemies Of The State just have to take one copy out, by laptop, >by floppy disk, by modem, or by satellite, and you've lost control. > >I assume he knows he's using the child pornography excuse as a >cynical play to the media - the obvious response is that > McCain's Pro-Forgery Bill >by making good crypto tools less available, and by making sure >that people will choose to get their important digital certificates >from multiple CAs and non-US-controlled CAs, or just go uncertified, >will make it forgery more common and digital signatures less trusted. >So <wave hands wildly here> your kids are more likely to have fake IDs >like we did to drink when we were younger and <wave hands again> >that'll lead to more pornography on the net, imported from foreign >countries that have lower standards than our fine American communities, and... > > ># Thanks; Bill ># Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com ># You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp ># (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.) > > >

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The spam thread
by Jason William RENNIE 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ooops, looks like i started a raging debate. Sorry if this debate bores anybody but as was said to me, just delete it. I notice nobody commented on the i just dont want advertising in my mailbox point, and why shouldn't they be billed. What i suggested WASN'T a new law that could be abused etc. It was a very minor legal precedent, where the owner of a phone or email box could be paid for advertising in in IF the marketer was informed. To Ross, SPAM may be freedom of expression as my child pornography, but 2 things, 1. What about my rights to privacy, and my rights to my mailbox that I pay for. Why should it be used as an advertising medium if i font want it to be used for one ?? 2. By your argument, mailbombing of all flavours is free expression and should be allowed. Seeing as this follows logically RU going to get upset if i mail bomb you ?? All this started when i asked if SPAM might be coming through this list, i didn't think it would have tyhis effect, but discussion is healthy. Anyway shall we let this thread die at this point ?? Jason =8-]

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Re: spam on this list (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:25:51 -0400 > From: "Philip A. Mongelluzzo" <phimon(a)ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Re: spam on this list > I support the constitution. In the case of the first ammendment: The > freedom it allows you, or whoever, to send spam and indulge in child > pornography is the same freedom provided to those who say those ideas are > wrong. Got it? But it isn't the same as you present it. I will explain below. > How do we deal with child pornography and free speech in such a way as to > allow both to exist and insure our children are not exposed to pornographic > material until they are at a maturity level where they can deal with it? Let's look at this carefuly for a moment. Child pornography in and of itself is irrelevant. The issue is sexual acts involving one or more children by adults which are committed with (or without) the specific intent of creating some physical record for personal use or to pass to others (with or without profit). Now let's contrast this with a simple pencil drawing of a child and an adult having sex (eg. Greek pottery). The question is are these two acts, one involving a real physical act involving a minor, and the other as a physical expression of the artists imagination equivalent? Some would have you believe they are the same. Unfortunately, I have yet to see a clear explanation of the view. Now the other side is that they are different. This belief rests on at least two basic tenents. The first being that it is the physical act that constitutes the crime and not simply thinking about it. The second is that there is a fundamental difference of quality between an item and its representation in some symbology. From this it becomes clear that the issue is how do we reduce the initial sexual contact. If THAT can be resolved the other problems resolve themselves. Now, let's assume for a moment that we have in fact resolved this issue. Should we then regulate representations of these acts by persons when it is assumed no actual child was involved? The representation is nothing more than the ramblings of an expressive mind. So are we not making certain thought illegal? This certainly contrasts with the belief that a crime requires an act. That doesn't sound very rational to me. And what about if I don't draw it but rather write a story? Or perhaps use my image editor to take children bathing suite adds and medical sources to fill it out, why should this be any different than a written description? Or perhaps that image on the Greek pot? No, these sort of line drawing was meant to be prohibited by the Constitution. The founding fathers must have known the world was a gray sort of place so they took special precautions (ie 10 Amendments) to make nice and clear boundaries for the federal government (ie 1'st Amendment). It is clear that they expressely did not want the government involved in human expression. > If pornography is the enemy of crypto then that is enemy that must be fought. This is a straw man. There is no crypto involved in the physical act. Nice strawman argument though, got almost the whole damn world swallowing at this point.... > A battle that must be won without killing the enemy to insure continued > free speech. Quite a challenge I think. Only if you are confused about exactly what the issue at hand is. We need diagnostic proceedures usable by regular physicians and the issue really needs to be handled as a medical and not a legal issue. Putting people in jail won't effect this sort of human behaviour one damn bit. By the time the guy gets to jail some poor kid has been really abused, is that how you want your kid dealt with? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: A better DES challenge
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:15 PM 6/23/97 -0700, Mike Duvos wrote: >Really. It appears that the DESCHALL frivolities actually >enhanced the reputation of DES, fluffy press releases by C2 and >Security Dynamics notwithstanding. Which is why I opposed a distributed crack ever since the crack was first proposed. But once the crack got underway, the only thing to do was to participate and hope it wouldn't take all that long. Stressing the individual that found the key over the group effort was the best thing that could be done in an already bad situation. Spin control is a fact of life. Now on to breaking 56 bit RC5 (a waste of time, but until that's out of the way there will be no sufficient support to break 64 bit RC5). I am encouraging corporate sponsorships for breaking RC5-64. If we can get $100,000 together (should be easy), people will find cycles you didn't even know existed. :-) --Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56. http://rc5.distributed.net/

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digital signature software
by chewp＠pacific.net.sg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Besides PGP and RIPEM/SIG, is anyone aware of other US-exportable digital signature software? Thanks Lip Ping chewp(a)pacific.net.sg

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Who is going to HIP'97?
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Who on this list intends to go to HIP'97? http://www.hip97.nl I would like to organize a C*punks meeting there. Thanks, --Lucky --Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56. http://rc5.distributed.net/

5 5

Re: The Global Fix is In
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Maybe I should have said lobbyist group masquerading as 'thinktank' Like the American Security Council. AND: grassroots is totally different - I agree that they would be a voice in the wilderness - and very ineffectual How can you put them in the same category, "conservative thinktanks and grassroots groups" as if they are even in the same universe? Can any grassroots org. demonstrate the same track record in pushing legislation to go their way as can the corporate-funded PAC/thinktanks? Go back and look at the PAC list for McCain, and tell me how many that he is aligned with are leading the opposition to administration proposals? And then tell me that the thinktanks and the PACs are independent and unrelated. I don't think so. The thinktanks are used by the PACs and funded by them, indirectly at least. By the way, what does Rand Corp. have to say? At 10:16 PM 6/22/97 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Without taking a position on the rest of the following post, I should say >that it's the conservative thinktanks and grassroots groups that are >leading the opposition to all administration proposals and are taking a >crypto-absolutist stance. > >-Declan > >Sure, libertarian groups are just as good or better, but there are fewer >of them. (Cato -still- hasn't come out with their crypto policy analysis >even after they've been working on it for half a year. At least their >privacy paper should be coming out soon. And CEI doesn't have the staff to >devote someone to this issue.) They've done a few conferences and such, >but they're limited by numbers. > > > >On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 geeman(a)best.com wrote: > >> massive investments being made by Industry in the conservative thinktanks >> who produce the >> intellectual fodder-de-jour that supports the position of this elite, and >> overwhelm the >> likes of McCain and Kerrey with >> impossible-for-the-legislature-to-understand managed > > >

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ZDU Summer Registration is Now Open!
by announce＠lists.zdnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

----------------------------------------------------------------- ZDNET ANNOUNCEMENT 6/24/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Registration is now open for summer classes at ZDU: http://www.zdu.com ZDNet University--the most affordable and convenient source of computing education on the Web--kicks into high-gear this summer with a brand new line-up of online courses covering some of the hottest topics in technology today. For only $4.95 a month, take as many computing classes as you want, when you want. Whether you're at the beach, at home, or at the office, ZDU's comprehensive curriculum offers you the opportunity to learn new computing skills, earn Continuing Education Units CEUs), and beef-up your resume -- all at your convenience. ===== Sign up Now! Classes Fill Quickly ===== These are some of the ZDU courses you can register for today: * Java for Programmers * Advanced JavaScript * ActiveX for Programmers * C++ Programming * Build Your Own PC * Visual Basic * Intro to HTML * Dynamic HTML * Intro and Advanced Web Site Design * Adobe Photoshop 4.0 * And many more! New classes are added all the time. You can view the complete ZDU Course Catalog at: http://www.zdu.com/zdu/catalog/open.htm. ==== Stay Tuned for New Features and Site Enhancements ==== Also coming this summer: Special offers for ZDU students, online chats, extracurricular clubs, and more. For more information about ZDU, get online and tour the ZDU campus or check out a sample class. Then register for the best value in continuing education today -- ZDNet University! http://www.zdu.com _______________________________________________________________ ZDNet Announcements are periodic notices of new features, special events and free offers available to members of ZDNet. --To subscribe to ZDNet Announcements, please send mail to: announce-on(a)lists.zdnet.com You can leave the subject and body blank. --To unsubscribe to ZDNet Announcements, please send mail to: announce-off(a)lists.zdnet.com You can leave the subject and body blank. _______________________________________________________________ Powered by Mercury Mail: http://www.merc.com ===============================================================

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Re: A better DES challenge
by Tom Weinstein 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lucky Green wrote: > > At 06:15 PM 6/23/97 -0700, Mike Duvos wrote: >> Really. It appears that the DESCHALL frivolities actually >> enhanced the reputation of DES, fluffy press releases by C2 and >> Security Dynamics notwithstanding. > > Which is why I opposed a distributed crack ever since the crack was > first proposed. But once the crack got underway, the only thing to do > was to participate and hope it wouldn't take all that long. Stressing > the individual that found the key over the group effort was the best > thing that could be done in an already bad situation. Spin control is > a fact of life. IMHO, it would have been better to emphasize the group effort, and that they could continue to crack keys at a rate of one every 30 days even if the computing base didn't continue to grow. Not to mention that they could also be cracking 40-bit keys at a rate of about 2000 a day. -- What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate| Tom Weinstein for the novice. You must understand Tao before | tomw(a)netscape.com transcending structure. -- The Tao of Programming |

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Adults Only!
by Danielle-Cindy＠emirates.net.ae 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Looking for the hottest adult action on the web? The Newly Renovated 4XXXX FREE HardCore is the place to go For The Hottest Pictures and Services, Plus . . . Links and Reviews of the hottestest sites on the Net. --CLICK HERE! For Instant Access to the finest in HardCore Adult Entertainment!

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Re: New PGP signatures (fwd)
by Mark Grant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, William H. Geiger III wrote: > You really need to modify your mail-processing code as you are going to > see more and more of these. You should also start work on implementing the > PGP/MIME RFC as you will be seeing more of these messages. It's kind of hard to modify the code when I'm still waiting for the PGP 5.0 code to be made available. I can't do a lot until people finish OCR-ing it. > Nothing personal but your code should not "break" on any data that is sent > to it. PGP 2.6.x doen't have a problem with these signatures it just > returns a error code and goes on it's way. Precisely; it returns an error and drops out. It *does not* output the signed message to stdout as it would do if it were an RSA-signed message, so it just looks like an empty message. At the moment I have better things to do, but I guess if people are going to use non-standard message formats they don't want us to read what they write anyway. Mark

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Re: How did these people find our list? (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 04:05:42 +0000 (GMT) > From: jonathon <grafolog(a)netcom.com> > Subject: Re: How did these people find our list? > The State of Oregon << The only state to have been bombed by > a foreign country. >> during World War Two. Brrrrppppp. Thank you for playing. Your consolation prize is a big whoopie cushion. Alaska was not only bombed by a foreign country (ie Japan) but it was the only continental US location to actualy be invaded. Do a search on Kiska and Dutch Harbor on Yahoo.... Hawaii was also bombed and last time I checked it was part of the US, the same goes for Wake Is., Midway Is., and Phillipines. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

2 1

Re: Comparing Cryptographic Key Sizes
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter Trei <trei(a)process.com> writes: > Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes. > > 56 bit DES is probably roughly similar to 512 bit RSA in hardness to > > break. > > This is way off. We used ~457,000 MIPS years to search half of the > DES keyspace. Factoring a 512 bit modulus using the General Number > Field Sieve (GNFS) would take about 28,000 MIPS years (see Schneier > for the exact number - I don't have AC2 at hand) > > Lenstra has estimated that with 500,000 MIPS years, you should be > able to factor a 600 bit modulus using GNFS, if your workstations > had enough memory. Ah yes. Well I did read your post on coderpunks where you described the results of asking Lenstra and looking for ideas for what to break next, how hard 512 bits was etc. So... 28,000 MIPs years you say... but that neglects memory. Lenstra's conclusion was that even 512 bits couldn't be done, from your post. So by that measure it is harder (due to memory overhead) than DES even though theoretically taking less MIPS with 64 mb workstations. Also he was unsure about the availability of a large enough supercomputer to reduce the final matrix. So any suggestetions of how to summarise the "hardness" of a problem when it includes memory and cpu costs in as simple terms as possible. (Bearing in mind the reader in most cases hasn't grasped the difference between public key crypto and symmetric key, and is comparing 1024 bit keys to 56 bit keys and probably thinks that it is 1024/56 times harder.) > > About 10 years ago now Michael Wiener made a design for such a DES > > breaking machine. He estimated it would cost $10,000,000 to build a > > machine which would break a 56 bit DES encrypted message a few hours. > > His machine was scalable, pay more money, break the key faster, pay > > less take longer. The estimate was that could build one with enough > > DES key searching units to break it in a day for $1,000,000. That was > > 10 years ago. 10 years is a long time in the computer industry. > > Nowadays you build the machine more cheaply as chip technology has > > progressed, and computers are much faster per $. Estimates are around > > $100,000 to build the machine (neglecting hardware engineers > > consultancy fees). > > Go back and check the numbers - if you don't the journalists will. > (I don't have this paper to hand either :-( ) The Wiener paper is > much more recent (93?) , and the cost much lower (I think it was > about $1M for HW and $500K for development costs, for a 3.5 hour > machine). I think I have his paper as a postscript file, will look. But what do you think of the extrapolation to todays prices? $100k? (Ignoring consultancy fees). Thanks for the criticisms, more please on readability and understandability to neophytes! Adam -- Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

3 3

2
by TruthMailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anon-To:

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[ PGP 2.6.3 ]
by bull＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Can someone give me a site where I can get a compiled copy of PGP 2.6.3?

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Re: spook pressure on crypto exports
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ian Grigg <iang(a)systemics.com> writes: > Bill said: > > ... and have been trying to work on the Irish...) > > and Adam said: > > Ireland is new to me. What's their problem? > > Ditto! I'd like to know because ... > > > Who's exporting things to attract spook export attention over there? > > Systemics is an Irish company, and so is Baltimore, and we both > are 'exporters' depending on one's viewpoint. So's SSE (subsidiary of Siemens-Nixdorf). But that's mostly/all defense stuff, so they're presumably in thick with the military intelligence, and export permission would be a snip for them. > I don't know about Baltimore, but there is not a lot of pressure > they can put on Systemics, as the majority of the Cryptix effort is > now handed over to non-Systemics people. That's the beauty of > freeware. Ireland allows intangible export, no permission required, same as UK. They do say they would like a list of customers after the fact, but that's just would like, not you are required to give or else. (Clearly it would be a bit difficult to list the customers off your open access web page). For tangible exports you need permission, much as in the UK. I get the impression that the `open for business' attitude (love that 10% corporate tax break, is systemics getting this?) would mean you'd get an easier time than in the UK. They promise fast efficient turn around on export applications. (Unlike NZ MFAT, reread Peter Gutmann's story of down under intrigue on http://jya.com/nsazeal.htm amazing, nearly bankrupted the company!) > In contrast, I have been told that Ireland represents a prime place > for this sort of stuff, as there are no restrictions whatever. I think it's better than say UK. But clearly not `no restrictions' at least for tangible exports re above comments. I don't know how this works out in practice, what they give tangible export permission to, etc. Adam -- Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

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Netscape, 128-bit export
by Ariel Glenn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

from their web site, at http://www.netscape.com/flash2/newsref/pr/newsrelease428.html --- MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (June 24, 1997) -- Netscape Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: NSCP) today announced the United States Department of Commerce has granted the company permission to export Netscape Communicator client software with 128-bit encryption capabilities. Available for immediate download from the Netscape Internet site, Netscape Communicator with strong encryption would allow users worldwide to enjoy far greater protection for their information when communicating with certified, strong encryption applications on Intranets and the Internet. Netscape also received approval to export Netscape SuiteSpot server software featuring 128-bit encryption capabilities to certified banks worldwide. VeriSign will be providing a special-use digital certificate which enables the encryption. This will allow Netscape Communicator users to access their banking information from almost anywhere in the world and communicate using strong encryption with those banks which have implemented Netscape SuiteSpot servers and completed the certification process. --- some pr crap deleted --- International users who have Netscape Communicator do not need to download a new version of Netscape Communicator to take advantage of the strong encryption capabilities being announced today. Negotiation of the strong encryption between international versions of Netscape Communicator and Netscape SuiteSpot servers approved for export to banks occurs through a unique mechanism based on a special-use digital certificate. etc... ----- So... is this new approval for export of 128-bit encryption only for encryption between the users and these banks, or is it general? If it's general, is GAK built in or not? And if not, how did they get approval? Ariel Glenn / AcIS R&D / Columbia University ariel(a)columbia.edu #include <stddisclaimer.h>

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