December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

IP: High-tech Anti-crime Computer Unveiled
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Jan <igniting(a)flash.net> Subject: IP: High-tech Anti-crime Computer Unveiled Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:10:22 -0500 To: Ignition-Point <ignition-point(a)majordomo.pobox.com> <center>The Associated Press </center> LONDON -- An "intelligent" computer system that uses closed circuit television to match faces in a crowd to mug shots of criminals is likely to become London's latest weapon against crime. Scotland Yard and a local council have installed the $100,000 CCTV system for a trial in Newham, a poor district in London's East End. Newspapers reported Thursday that the computer system, called Mandrake, is linked to 144 CCTV's in shopping centers, railway stations and car parks. Mandrake can scan up to 150 faces at a time and compare them with a database of criminal mug shots stored on a computer at council headquarters. If Mandrake makes a match between a face in the crowd and a criminal's mug shot, the computer alerts a monitoring team in the town hall, which alerts the police. Civil liberties groups said they were alarmed by the new system, but police defended its use. "The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing crimes in the area," The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent Dave Armond saying. "If people are not committing crimes, they have nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the message is, 'We are watching out for you'. The newspaper reported that the police will initially use the system to concentrate on catching robbery suspects. However, in the future it could be used to search crowds for hooligans who stir up trouble at soccer matches. CCTV's developer, Software and Systems International, said the system is accurate enough to identify people hiding behind makeup or eyeglasses. Even growing a beard won't help, the company said. Britain has 150,000 closed circuit TV cameras. Although most Britons are used to the devices, civil liberties groups oppose the cameras and the facial matching. "The accuracy of facial matching like this is limited. You only need a handful of photographs of celebrities to see how different the same people can look in different pictures," the Mail quoted Liz Parratt, spokeswoman for the civil rights group liberty, as saying. "Even if you did have a system which worked, it would have to be regulated very carefully to protect people's privacy." Transcribed by Ryan Wright from Sunday, Oct 18, 1998, Star Telegram, Fort Worth Texas, Section A page 19 ******=========================================***** "Among the elementary measures the American Soviet government will adopt to further the cultural revolution are... [a] National Department of Education...the studies will be revolutionized, being cleansed of religious, patriotic, and other features of the bourgeois ideology. The students will be taught the basis of Marxian dialectical materialism, internationalism and the general ethics of the new Socialist society." - William Z. Foster, Toward Soviet America, 1932 "...Stage III...would proceed to a point where no state would have the military power to challenge the progressively strengthened U.N. peace force... The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited... All other armaments would be destroyed..." -Department of State publication number 7277 **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo(a)majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ****************************************************

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RE: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES
by Harvey Rook (Exchange) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: steve.benjamin(a)juno.com [mailto:steve.benjamin@juno.com] > > 1. How can I generate 2 large prime numbers? I doubt I > could create 2, > 100-digit prime numbers in my head :-) > For cryptographic purposes, you'll want to use a probabilistic test. Try reading through these links... http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/proving.html and... http://www.itl.nist.gov/div897/pubs/fip186.htm

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IP: [FP] All IRS appeals are exhausted, SSNs required for children
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point(a)majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer(a)telepath.com Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:25:38 -0500 To: believer(a)telepath.com From: believer(a)telepath.com Subject: IP: [FP] All IRS appeals are exhausted, SSNs required for children Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point(a)majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer(a)telepath.com Forwarded: --------------- From: "ScanThisNews" <mcdonalds(a)airnet.net> Subject: [FP] All IRS appeals are exhausted, SSNs required for children Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:20:17 -0500 ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 10/18/98 Claiming children on tax returns without SSNs The following exchange is typical with regard to claiming children as deductions on federal tax returns. Names have been removed, but this is a real case. Regardless of how you feel about income taxes, the point is that the federal government no longer recognizes your children as being "yours" unless they have a Social Security Number assigned to them. More on the history of the requirement for children to be assigned SSNs (as a provision under the GATT agreement) in order for them to be acknowledged by the federal government can be found at: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1/fp-gatt-ssn-requirements.html Scott -------------------------------------------- Subject: All IRS appeals are exhausted; US District Court, next step, SSNs for children [Name removed] As you may be aware, we did not supply IRS with Social Security numbers for our dependent children, which resulted in IRS disallowing our dependents, and we then had to pay substantially more income taxes. We appealed, using various Biblical and legal arguments, which IRS refused. We then filed a 1040X, wherein we requested a refund for the extra income tax we paid, since our dependents were disallowed and we had to pay more money. IRS told us that, in the explanation section, it was very important we explain why we failed to include social security numbers for our dependents, since our religious objections would be grounds upon which we could sue IRS for First Amendment issues. Accordingly, in the Explanation section, we included the following statement: Lack of Social Security Numbers for Children, Lines 4 & 5, 25, 28, & 30, particularly 30b. For religious reasons, our children do not have Social Security Numbers. Our legal and religious reasons are explained in the document in your possession titled: Appeal, dated 25 April 1998, which should be considered part of this 1040X form. Below is IRS' response to our 1040X. At this point, we have come to the end of the appeal process with IRS: there are no more appeals available via IRS. Any further action must be taken in court, whether it be Tax Court, US District Court, or, according to the letter, US Federal Claims Court. Unless someone convinces us that one of the other courts would be better, we intend to take the matter to US District Court, which, I've been told, is in Louisiana. As all these legal matters are entirely new to us, we encourage anyone (who knows what they are talking about) who wishes to inform us to feel free to contact us. We'll consider whatever advise anyone has to offer. How do we file? Where do we file? How do we set up the law suit so we don't ruin it for everyone in the country, as some uninformed patriots have done on other income tax related matters? Should we file a class action suit, since there are many others who are in the same predicament as we are in? Is there some other form of lawsuit that we should file? By the way, the IRS letter really does say "INDENTIFICATION NUMBER." The root of "indentification" would be indent- plus the ending -ification. The word in English closest to indent- is indenture, as in indentured servant, which is someone who, by some instrument (in this case, a SSN), makes themselves the servant of someone else for a period of time, as stated in the instrument (in the case of the SSN, forever). Then again, "indemnification," as in "indemnify," (to secure against loss) is also close to "INDENTIFICATION." Maybe they are offering us an indemification number, because if we have it, they will leave us alone, and will no longer harm us financially. IRS letter follows: ------------------------------- Department of the Treasury Internal Revenue Service In reply refer to: ............ AUSTIN, TX 73301 Aug. 25, 1998 LTR 105C [name removed] CERTIFIED MAIL Taxpayer Identification Number: 666...... Kind of Tax: INCOME Amount of Claim(s): $ 1,148.00 Date Claim(s) Received: Aug. 03, 1998 Tax Period(s): Dec. 31, 1996 Dear Taxpayer: This letter is your legal notice that we have disallowed your claim(s). We can't allow your claim(s) for refund or credit for the period(s) shown above for the reason(s) listed below. PER SECTION 151(e) STATES THAT EACH DEPENDENT MUST HAVE A INDENTIFICATION NUMBER IF THEY ARE BEING CLAIMED AS A DEPENDENT ON THE TAX RETURN. SECTION 152(e) HAS BEEN CORRECTLY APPLIED If you want to sue to recover tax, penalties, or other amounts, you may file a lawsuit with the United States District Court having jurisdiction or with the United States Court of Federal Claims. These courts are independent bodies and have no connection with the Internal Revenue Service. The law permits you to do this within 2 years from the mailing date of this letter. If you decide to appeal our decision first, the 2-year period still begins from the mailing date of this letter. However, if you signed an agreement that waived your right to the notice of disallowance (Form 2297), the period for filing a lawsuit began on the date you filed the waiver. If you have any questions, please call us. You may call ............ between the hours of 8:00 A.M. and 5:00 P.M. at ............ for assistance. If the number is outside your local calling area, there will be a long-distance charge to you. If you prefer, you may call the IRS telephone number listed in your local directory or (1-800-829-1040). An employee there may be able to help you, but the office at the address shown on this letter is most familiar with your case. If you prefer, you may write to us at the address shown at the top of the first page of this letter. Whenever you write, please include this letter and, in the spaces below, give us your telephone number with the hours we can reach you. Also, you may want to keep a copy of this letter for your records. Telephone Number ( )______________________ Hours_____________ Sincerely yours, ............... District Director Enclosure(s): Publication 1 ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: <fingerprint(a)networkusa.org> ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to <majordomo(a)efga.org> and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo(a)majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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RealPlayer G2 Full Beta Release *Now Available*
by Maria Cantwell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear RealPlayer Customer, At RealNetworks, we take pride in continually improving our RealPlayer products for you. We think you'll find that our latest RealPlayer release, RealPlayer G2 full beta, is a significant improvement over earlier versions. With RealPlayer G2 full beta, you'll notice dramatic quality enhancements in RealVideo with the introduction of RealVideo G2. RealVideo G2, which uses technology from Intel, delivers smoother video with higher frame rates. There's more. Read on, or download now: ==> http://www.real.com/products/player/fullbeta20.html Aside from being even more reliable than RealPlayer G2 Beta 1, the major improvements in RealPlayer G2 full beta are: * The new RealVideo G2 offers smoother and more life-like video with technology from Intel * SureStream delivers a reliable, continuous streaming media experience without rebuffering or breakups. SureStream now supports live broadcasts. * More programming, more choices with RealChannels and presets - just one click away * For high-bandwidth users, RealAudio is now CD-quality. With all these exciting new features you have to experience the excitement yourself. Download now, watch some great new content, and ENJOY! ==> http://www.real.com/products/player/fullbeta21.html Thank you for continuing to use RealNetworks products, Maria Cantwell Senior Vice President RealNetworks, Inc. Seattle, WA USA --------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL Participation in RealNetworks product updates and special offers is voluntary. During the installation of the RealPlayer software you indicated a preference to receive these emails. For information about subscribing to or unsubscribing from future announcements, visit http://www.real.com/mailinglist/index.html Need help with your RealPlayer product? E-mail RealNetworks Technical Support via: http://service.real.com/contact/email.htm

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Hillary's last ditch effort potion!
by totospitter＠3253137429 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! PHEROMONES in the News! >From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more. Radio and Television Stations worldwide. All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. "PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys, he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone" but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS "The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." FORTUNE MAGAZINE: "An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. Nearly 30 years later, ... thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ... "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex. Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" Customers Say: "... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product. Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! -Dave J I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones. Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! -Tom on the Road Again, WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex. Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey? They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones. Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. PHEROMONES - THE FACTS Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness. One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male. This chemical attracts more females to him. It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about. WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name. It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: Hi-Octane (tm) .. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. .. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. .. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite perfume product. Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. BUY two -- get one free. The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. HI-OCTANE will attract the opposite sex of the wearer. McCall's magazine writes "...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." HI-OCTANE according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary. One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success. Isn't it worth trying? HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is $39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. *** For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. *** Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order. Overnight, add $15.00 per order. Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. SATISFACTION GUARANTEED Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202, 24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information, along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: Euphoria Products Dept. 202 1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133 Plantation, FL 33322 The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please send an email to: removemenow(a)start.com.au with remove in the subject line.

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You'll be their wish in life!
by totospitter＠3253137429 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! PHEROMONES in the News! >From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more. Radio and Television Stations worldwide. All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. "PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys, he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone" but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS "The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." FORTUNE MAGAZINE: "An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. Nearly 30 years later, ... thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ... "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex. Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" Customers Say: "... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product. Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! -Dave J I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones. Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! -Tom on the Road Again, WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex. Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey? They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones. Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. PHEROMONES - THE FACTS Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness. One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male. This chemical attracts more females to him. It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about. WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name. It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: Hi-Octane (tm) .. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. .. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. .. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite perfume product. Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. BUY two -- get one free. The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. HI-OCTANE will attract the opposite sex of the wearer. McCall's magazine writes "...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." HI-OCTANE according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary. One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success. Isn't it worth trying? HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is $39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. *** For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. *** Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order. Overnight, add $15.00 per order. Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. SATISFACTION GUARANTEED Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202, 24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information, along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: Euphoria Products Dept. 202 1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133 Plantation, FL 33322 The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please send an email to: removemenow(a)start.com.au with remove in the subject line.

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No Subject
by jacket9＠primenet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Are you a skeptic when it comes to health and well being products that claim they can do everything they say they can? Well I am and I did not believe this product worked until I tried it out on myself and found out that it really does work. Do you suffer from discomfort of any kind? Are you looking for something that can relieve that discomfort? Well this product may be the answer! My name is Tony and I am promoting a product that is beginning its introduction in the United States from a company in Japan which involves the use of special magnets for wellness therapy. You may have seen other companies claiming that magnets help reduce discomfort from anything from headaches to cramps to sore muscles but their magnets are not nearly as effective as they should be because of the way they were designed. This is where I come in, I am promoting a company whose magnets are specially designed to stimulate all the nerve endings in your body by the special diamond design that is patented by only one company in the world. Other magnets have the north and south poles (where the magnetic power is held) in a standard straight up and down design but the magnets I promote have the patented diamond design where the poles do not run up and down but are angled in all directions in order to stimulate each nerve ending. Since our bodies are not designed where our nerve endings are up and down we need something that will be able to cover us in all directions. These special magnets have been tested on people with many different kinds of discomfort ranging from anywhere to a simple minor headache to muscle cramps, heartburn, aching backs, tired feet, bruises, cuts, indigestion, physical discomfort from stress, even dental plaque! All the test subjects showed moderate to complete recovery from these and many other discomforts they suffered. These magnets not only ease your discomfort but they also provide you with a little extra strength and energy when you need it the most. Even if you just bumped your head or have suffered from chronic discomfort from something for years this product will help ease it as long as you keep it on your body. In some people they got results in a matter of minutes from slight discomfort but for patients who have been suffering the results may take a few days to notice a difference. This does work on anyone in any age group from small children to senior citizens, however, pregnant women and anyone with heart devices should not use this product. People who have had surgery done who have had any kind of metal or plastic can use this product also! To find out more please reply to me, Tony, and ask me about these magnets. I can tell you that any other magnet you buy at a cheap discount price ie $18 for a whole set that they do not work because of the north and south magnetic poles are being up and down. This company has a patented design where the north and south poles run in every direction stimulating each nerve ending in our body. I can tell you that this product really works and for just $18 I can send you a magnet that will help relieve just about any minor physical discomfort you suffer from. I also have a long line of other products that use these patented magnets such as: shoe inserts that will help soothe tired and sore feet but will also soothe your body all the way up your legs, wrist bands, ankle bands, knee bands that have the magnets throughout the entire band, a belt, even a gold or pearl necklace with the magnets built in! PLease reply if you are interested or would like further information. Thank you

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ADV: U.S. Patent Office Grants Patent On QPI's Breakthrough
by christine＠1stnettech.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

U.S. Patent Office Grants Patent On QPI's Breakthrough PhotoMotion Multi-Imaging Technology Quik Pix Inc. Buena Park, CA (OTCBB SYMBOL: QPIX) announced today that the Company has been granted the Patent on a breakthrough technology, PhotoMotion Multi-Imaging. QPI is a company specializing in high quality photographic imaging and visual marketing technologies. The Patent just awarded covers the technology enabling QPI to combine three or more images into a single color transparency that, as if by magic, changes as the astonished viewer moves past the image. The image moves with the viewer. The illusion is optical and requires no special equipment or other mechanism to create this mystical effect. PhotoMotion Multi-Imaging Technology images combined with text or graphics readily fit into existing light box fixtures creating a visual presentation that is so amazing and distinct that PhotoMotion stands to revolutionize the imaging for most backlit advertising displays used in tradeshows, point of purchase locations, foot traffic venues, etc. Mr. John Capie, QPI President, said, "Everyone who sees PhotoMotion is very enthusiastic. The responses from advertisers, marketers, and photo industry people have been very positive. This is going to be a photographic milestone." For more information about our company and this investment opportunity, please visit http://www.1stnettech.com/qpix/ This news release includes forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties, including risks associated with the company's: (1) entry into new markets and development and introduction of new products; and (2) the company's need to finance costs related thereto. Actual results may vary from those projected or implied by such statements. Quik Pix Inc. 7050 Village Drive Suite F Buena Park, CA. 90621 John Capie President Inside Southern California - 800-734-0432 Outside Southern California - 714 522-8255 _________________________________________________________________________ Further transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by replying to remove(a)1stnettech.com We apologize for any inconvenience

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No Subject
by christian masson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

SUBJECT: EU-USA ECHELON TO: OMEGA FOUNDATION + European Parliament (civil liberties,...) DT: 9/19/98 Ref.: Mr Steve Right OMEGA FOUNDATION Author of: http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/166499/execsum.htm I/ Section 2.3, you said: " Modern snoopers can buy specially adapted lap top computers, and simply tune in to all the mobile phones active in the area by cursoring down to their number. The machine will even search for numbers 'of interest' to see if they are active." Actually, only a public logger: http://www.rsd.de/PRODUKT/22da.htm is able to catch IMSIs and intercept called-calling parties. Do you know the model that you mentionned? II/ No a word about 100 Millions GSM mapped&traced. Why? GSM Trace Scandal exposed: http://jya.com/gsm-scandal.htm III/ Latest GSM EUser Traking Table: http://www.ii-mel.com/interception/mobile_tracegb.htm IV/ European Electronic Surveillance: http://www.ii-mel.com/interception Congratulations, except GSM-trace, for your objectivity. Regards, Christian Masson La Ferme Ch.Pierrefleur 74 Pobox505 CH- 1000 Lausanne 17 _______________________ interception(a)ii-mel.com _______________________ GSM TRACE PROTEST PETITION ON CYBERCRATE (belgium parlement) http://www.axismundi.org/Cf/laurus/cybercrate/belgium/fr/actions.htm ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rah(a)pop.sneaker.net Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:20:38 -0400 To: dbs(a)philodox.com From: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> Subject: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy Sender: <dbs(a)philodox.com> Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: <mailto:requests@philodox.com?subject=subscribe%20dbs> X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 7:45 AM -0400 on 10/19/98, Anonymous forwarded this to the dbs list: > see http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.23/anonymittext.html It's just another financial privacy rant, though a relatively decent one. It's from J. Orlin Grabbe, who was at FC98, BTW. When I met him at S&PBank's party at Cap Julaca, he seemed like a nice, though fairly intense, guy. Financial privacy *makes* you intense, I suppose. Nonetheless, like all financial privacy rants, Orlin's reverses cause and effect, but it's not really his fault. Remember, the reason we have no financial privacy these days is because we have book-entry settlement, which relies on biometric identity, known physical location, and the force of a nation state as the ultimate "error-handler" to prevent repudiation in the transaction protocol. The reason we have book-entry settlement itself is because it is several orders of magnitude cheaper than physical delivery of paper bearer certificates. The *only* way to have financial privacy in a book-entry world is to engage in the financial equivalent of steganography, which, no matter how financially and legally facile -- even elegant -- it is, at the margin it costs more to hide money than not to. It will always cost more in a book-entry economy, and for structural reasons. Worse, most of these accounting and legal gyrations are just plain old security by obscurity, something most crypto-clueful people learn, fairly early on, to treat with the utmost scorn and derision. If my hypothesis is right, and digital bearer settlement is significantly cheaper than book-entry settlement, say three orders of magnitude cheaper, then financial privacy will be the default state of affairs sooner or later. It will actually cost *more* to keep transaction records and the physical location of economic actors than not to. No amount of physical force, much less law, accounting, or "policy", will change that physical, economic, fact. A fact which every economic actor, from the smallest proprietor to the largest nation state, will end up ignoring at their peril. The reason digital bearer settlement will be faster, and thus cheaper, is because the cryptographic protocol breaks before the transaction can. Unlike a book entry protocol, where you can execute a trade and then renege on it later, causing bounced checks, charge-backs, broken trades, DKs and the like, software using a digital bearer protocol can execute *only* if both parties cannot renege on the transaction in the first place. One of the best guarantors of that inability to renege is, paradoxically, cryptographically certain anonymity. Immediate and final clearing and settlement means that you tend not to care who you've done business with in the first place, but cryptographic anonymity not only makes the transaction stronger and safer, it is the very enabling technology of the process, the thing which makes digital bearer transaction settlement the fastest, and, systemically, the cheapest transaction technology to use. Again, it's just like air travel. You can go very fast on land, much faster than it takes to fly even without wings, as sound-barrier-breaking speed records show us. But, the physical, economic fact is, people can travel the fastest and cheapest over the longest distances when they fly, so that's what they do. They don't fly just because the view's nicer, or, as I've joked before, "to slip the surly bounds of earth". And, most important, this economic reality, that economics ultimately determines a technology's use, is true no matter what the intent is of any airplane -- or bearer protocol -- designer. The cost of anything is the foregone alternative. One of costs of book-entry settlement is privacy, surely, but in a world of strong financial cryptography and ubiquitous geodesic networks, the primary cost of book-entry settlement is wasted time and computing resources. Costs which will eventually force the adoption of digital bearer transaction settlement, giving us ubiquitous financial privacy -- and freedom -- as a result. Effects of our technology, in other words. Not its cause. Cheers, Bob Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNitXcMUCGwxmWcHhAQHApAf/f1mtuoqig0dsyOa6d5n39N4O8EmCykST eF2+s+cDP6Nur4KZ8PdFXczfQIBot3Hn7NYWR1cUwvuxE2yJJSBDLKd3MK7ubQey qyLtRA8Z033q2OqUmMIc3v62QrtusBO1Xbbdgx800Z5IyuwlprfN6VPcaNpTzIl6 zmdS8KLjj1z2I/C0gi715cyQ/X9y11FHrgvXmF/7HTcbH+mtxQHxxl44DrbqVPBQ XTPU09+1UpVirhIq7KQgSAXD+GFNsr5LGSRVsdtXGQJy8mbSkmsMMOrVOG32yqa9 Ual0RqEC7ELQQLWx+86g7f5loNJEQzgTggYOGZs0AIIZJPUG1WnvAw== =PqXA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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RE: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES
by Fisher Mark 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>2. Is there an implentation of DES in perl? I didn't see a link to one >on the export-a-sig page. If not perl, is there one for DOS? I'm >looking for a bare bones one, not something with tons of features >and a GUI. A perl or dos version of the unix "des" program would be >preferable. CPAN (the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network), <URL:http://www.perl.com/CPAN/>, is your friend -- use it. (Look under "Authentication, Security and Encryption" -- there are 3 versions of DES listed, along with an interface to SSLeay, which includes DES as one of its algorithms). ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm(a)indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is 'Don't Tread on Me'"

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RE: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("Kill Switch")
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> [Note from Matthew Gaylor: Several years ago on this list I mentioned > that EMP devices will soon be used to stop car chases. Several of my > subscribers wrote in and said I must be crazy, that I lived in a > science fiction fantasy. Oh well, the future is now.] These ideas have been around for more than a few years. In the past year or so I've seen two systems on Discovery Channel. One was a flat strip that was unrolled across the road and generated some ESD when the car crossed it. The other one was a cockamamie toy rocket car that would be deployed by the pursuing car and run under the pursued. They say it shows promise. These things are fine. It would probably require small effort to devise effective CM. The project solicitation is pretty nasty however: they very casually talk about high energy RF. I would say pointing that crap at anyone would come under "reckless endangerment". I miss the days of mechanical ignition points and carbureters! BTW - Did you see the bullshit that happened up in Vallejo? Cops sent a dog into a culvert after a suspect. The suspect shot and killed the dog. The police had a full-fledged funeral, casket and all for the fucking dog. Flowers all over he place, mourners. Now they're buying goddamned kevlar vests for their dogs. Fuckheads. Who's the citizen? The human or the dog? As for the suspect he's charged with something for killing the dog. Simple destruction of property, which would be a charge befitting the act, is probably not enough to avenge beloved Bowser's death. Because it's a cop-dog-on-duty the penalty is probably more than restitution and some community service. Jail time for defending yourself against an attack dog? I think maybe our society is suffering from a form of mass insanity induced by the fucking television programming. LE seem to think they're John Wayne or Steven Segal. They actually believe the brain-dead, binary morality of pop fiction. Us vs Them, Good-guys vs. Bad-guys, Human vs. Non-human. The lack of perspective is mind-blowing. Mike

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EU Privacy Directive
by David Watts 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Deadline for EU Data Privacy Law Prompts Worry Among Businesses By JENNIFER L. SCHENKER and JULIE WOLF Special to THE WALL STREET JOURNAL The mounds of data that zap electronically across borders may face some travel restrictions as a European Union law takes effect this week. Three years of talks between the EU and the U.S. have failed to find a compromise on how to protect the privacy of data, and that has businesses and consumer groups worried. The issue arose in 1995, when Citibank Deutschland AG came under attack for a co-branded credit-card program with Deutsche Bahn AG. The program, Germany's data police decided, invaded the privacy of citizens because the sign-up questionnaire was too nosy and the data was processed in the U.S. The bank made headlines by offering to allow Germany's data police to come to the U.S. to inspect its data-processing arrangements. Citibank solved its problems in Germany, but the European Commission reasoned national data regulators couldn't possibly travel to the U.S. to verify the compliance of all of the companies in Europe that send personal data abroad for processing. Instead, the commission passed a law that gave national data regulators wide powers to control what type of data can be processed abroad and let them halt exports of personal data to countries that don't have adequate protection, such as the U.S. EU member states were given three years to institute necessary changes. Intensified Negotiations Businesses panicked at the prospect of having data flows cut off, databases erased and huge fines levied. Negotiations intensified between Europe and the U.S., which planned to ensure data protection mainly through industry self-regulation. Three years later, just days before the deadline, a solution has yet to be found, and Citibank and other multinationals doing business in Europe are back in the headlines again, the targets of privacy advocates who want to inspect transborder data flows. At issue is how U.S. companies operating in Europe can send data back to the U.S. without running afoul of strict new EU legislation on data protection. The issue won't be settled before the legislation goes into effect Oct. 25 although U.S. and EU officials say they are hopeful enough progress has been made to ensure that companies won't see their data flows interrupted on Oct. 26. "The message to business should be don't panic," advised Francis Aldhouse, deputy data-protection registrar at the U.K.'s office of data protection. "Nothing great and dramatic" is going to happen this week when the directive goes into force, he said. Threat of Legal Action But uncertainty abounds, and big companies in Europe are worried they could face legal action from a variety of quarters, including Privacy International, a Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group that plans to increase its activities in Europe. "This is not a deal that can be cut between the White House and Brussels," said Simon Davies, Privacy International's director. "The data-protection directive establishes new constitutional rights in Europe and gives us a mandate to move forward." Between now and Jan. 15, Privacy International will meet with 25 multinational corporations and government agencies it has identified. The group wants to examine data flows through available public records to determine whether these companies are in compliance with the new laws. At the moment all personal data gathered from European clients that is processed outside the EU is suspect. Hong Kong, Quebec and New Zealand are the exceptions because they have received the commission's stamp of approval for providing adequate protection. Only three EU countries are expected to meet the commission's Oct. 25 deadline for implementing the data-protection directive -- Italy, Greece and Finland. "Business can not live with such uncertainty," said Mark Loliver, legal adviser to the European Federation of Direct Marketing. Possible Solutions Solutions on the table include: 1. Setting up safe harbors, a compromise that would allow U.S. companies operating in Europe to ship data back to the U.S. even though the U.S. itself won't get the European Commission's stamp of approval for adequate protection. The U.S. Commerce Department would issue principles on data privacy, and companies agreeing to abide by these would be allowed to transfer data from Europe to the U.S. 2. Drawing up model contracts between companies operating in Europe and those that process data overseas. The foreign companies would have to commit to meeting Europe's data privacy standards. 3. Implementing new software solutions that are designed to allow companies that handle personal information about consumers to meet privacy requirements. Both the U.S. and EU have shifted considerably from their original positions. The commission is no longer insisting that the U.S. adopt national data-protection legislation. And the U.S. now concedes that consumers should be able to complain to an independent group about a company's behavior. The commission will have to get the support of member states for any compromise at two meetings this month, the first of which will be held Monday. Model Contract Meanwhile the International Chamber of Commerce, British Federation of Business and a number of other organizations are jointly working on a model contract that could be drawn up between a company operating in Europe and the company which processes data for it abroad, said Colin Fricker, director of legal affairs at the U.K.'s Direct Marketing Association and a member of the model contract working party of the Confederation of British Industry. Separately, some companies hope to tackle the problem with technological solutions. NCR Inc., a Dayton, Ohio, data-warehousing specialist said that beginning in January it will build in new software features that will allow the auditing of computer databases to ensure compliance with government data privacy regulations. Its clients include financial institutions and retailers. For its part, Privacy International says neither model contracts or technological solutions offer adequate protection. "Companies in the U.S. continue to maintain that industry code of practice and privacy-enhancing technology afford protection and it does not -- it is a very tiny step in the right direction," said Privacy International's Mr. Davies. "The message we want to give the U.S. is why are you following an outdated libertarian philosophy when you know it is going to cost you dearly." _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

4 3

"Microsoft is racist"
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15702.html On the sidewalk in front of the building, a handful of protesters held up a sign saying "Microsoft is racist." The group attacked the company for not donating money to Howard University, which is predominately black.

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Your New Adobe Customer Number
by Adobe Systems 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thank you for registering with Adobe Systems, Inc. Your new Online Customer ID is: 2202094119525317 The PIN you entered and confirmed has been encrypted and stored with your registration information. Please remember your Customer ID and PIN for the next time you login as an Adobe Customer on www.adobe.com.

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by STUFFED TUE OCT 20 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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NEW SECURE INFO MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
by info＠tcii.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Subject: NEW SECURE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY ANNOUNCEMENT The reason that we are communicating to you is simple. We understand that you are concerned with information security solutions and we need to get the news out about a new kind of technology, which we call Premonition. You need to know that this brand new class of secure Internet publishing technology is in the final phase of development and our company is working hard to make it available! Please take just a few moments to visit our web page located at www.tcii.net/premonition. You will find that there are no requests to purchase anything. We believe our company is on target and that information-based businesses and clients who need secure publishing will benefit. This is an enormous opportunity involving the entire information publishing industry so we know we need help. During this final development phase our company is now beginning to organize a network of business contacts across the country and around the world including those who may wish to participate or become associated with us in this venture. For you to understand what this means you need an opportunity to visit our website at www.tcii.net/premonition. So come to our web site for a visit. If you like what you see then you can send us an email reply from our address on our web page. We know that you will find the general concept of our technology interesting and we will appreciate constructive suggestions. But please do not wait and do not delay; this is a limited one-time window of opportunity for you to consider. After this message your email address will be automatically added to our remove list and we will not try to target your address again. We must limit the number of people we will send this message to. However, you are welcome to forward this message on to other qualified professionals who you think may be interested. We want to thank those of you who choose to participate for your honest review of www.tcii.net/premonition. You will see that sometimes it can be refreshing and worth your while to take a look at new information that drops in your email. Sincerely, Transaction Control International, Inc. Memphis, Tennessee www.tcii.net/premonition

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Dorkslayers..
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text From: steven.soroka(a)mts.mb.ca X-Lotus-FromDomain: MTS To: coderpunks(a)toad.com Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:02:52 -0500 Subject: Dorkslayers.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-coderpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk You'll notice that toad.com is on the dorkslayers list, (under ip 140.174.2.1).. It'd advisable to find a way to remove it.. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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IP: WEBSITE: Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT)
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: believer(a)telepath.com Subject: IP: WEBSITE: Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:39:27 -0500 To: believer(a)telepath.com Forwarded: ---------------- Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:44:43 -0700 From: "A.C." <angie(a)computerhut.net> Subject: WEBSITE: Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT) BELOW IS A SITE WORTH VISITING AND DESERVING OF CAREFUL STUDY, as the US military has made it clear in its numerous documents, that a considerable segment of the US population is suspect, and a sizable number are of the "warrior classes," hence must be contained. Machiavelli, a shrewd military strategist, understood well the strategies for keeping the balance of power and, thus, advised the princes of Renaissance Italy, which at that time were a collection of powerful city-states, always at war with each other. Machiavelli's strategies AND PHILOSOPHIES, have been, still are, the subject of SERIOUS study by US military strategists. "He [the prince or any ruler] must, therefore, never raise his thought from this exercise of war, and in peacetime, he must train himself more than in time of war; this can be done in two ways: one by action, the other by the mind. And as far as actions are concerned, besides keeping his soldiers well disciplined and trained, he must always be out hunting, and must accustom his body to hardships in this manner; and HE MUST ALSO LEARN THE NATURE OF THE TERRAIN, AND KNOW HOW MOUNTAINS SLOPE, HOW VALLEYS OPEN, HOW PLAINS LIE, AND UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF RIVERS AND SWAMPS; [emphasis ac] and he should devote much attention to such activities. ... and a Prince who lacks this ability lacks the most important quality in a leader; because this skill teaches you to find the enemy, choose a campsite, lead troops, organize them for battle, and besiege towns to your own advantage." .... Therefore, a prince must not worry about the reproach of cruelty when it is a matter of keeping his subjects united and loyal; ......." The Prince, by Machiavelli. > >http://earthops.org/sovereign/urban_warfare/ >Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT) FM 90-10 Headquarters Department of Army Washington, DC, 15 August 1979 FM 90-10 Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT) Table of Contents CHAPTER 1... INTRODUCTION Urbanization Characteristics of Urban Warfare CHAPTER 2... OFFENSE How the Enemy Defends Planning the Attack The Offensive Battle Corps Division Brigade Battalion Task Force CHAPTER 3... DEFENSE How the Enemy Attacks Planning the Defense The Defensive Battle Corps Division Brigade Battalion Task Force CHAPTER 4... COMBAT SUPPORT Field Artillery Engineer Army Aviation Tactical Air Air Defense Military Police Chemical Communications CHAPTER 5... COMBAT SERVICE SUPPORT Support Organization Logistical Functions Noncombatants Civil Affairs Operations Refugee Control APPENDIX A... Urban Terrain Analysis APPENDIX B... Weapons Effects And Employment APPENDIX C... How To Select And Prepare Defensive Positions In Built-Up Areas APPENDIX D... Employment Of Obstacles And Mines In Built-Up Areas APPENDIX E... Demolitlons APPENDIX F... Armored Forces In Built-Up Area APPENDIX G... How To Attack And Clear Building APPENDIX H... References And International Agreements **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo(a)majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ****************************************************

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IP: [FP] National ID back on table?
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: believer(a)telepath.com Subject: IP: [FP] National ID back on table? Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:52:36 -0500 To: believer(a)telepath.com Forwarded: --------------- From: "ScanThisNews" <mcdonalds(a)airnet.net> Subject: [FP] National ID back on table? Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:05:28 -0500 SCAN THIS NEWS MONDAY OCTOBER 19, 1998 National ID back on table? Weekend maneuvers in Congress may kill moratorium http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/981019_national_id_back_o.shtml By David M. Bresnahan Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com Last-minute deals on Capitol Hill may remove a previously negotiated moratorium on the national ID card, and one organization opposed to the card is not surprised or disappointed. The law was already passed by Congress in 1996 and a national ID for all Americans will soon be in use unless changes to the law are made soon. The omnibus appropriations bill contained a ban on the national ID, first exposed in WorldNetDaily, but over the weekend efforts were made to remove that ban. A great many bills were never voted on during the year. With elections just around the corner, politicians want to go home to their districts and brag about something they've done this past year. The omnibus bill contains thousands of pages, including many pet projects intended to win votes. The main purpose of the bill, negotiated last week and scheduled for a vote tomorrow, is to approve the budget and keep government in business. Prior to the negotiations last week, all sides were predicting a shut-down of government over disagreements in the budget. No one in Congress wants to explain to voters why government has come to a grinding halt just before an election, so the passage of the omnibus bill is assured, along with anything else attached to it. "There are so many deals that have been made and are still being made that no one will ever know exactly what's in that thing and what's not until long after the vote is over and the members all go home to campaign," explained a congressional aide who did not wish to be named. The moratorium was first included in the transportation appropriations bill, but Rep. Lamar Smith, R-TX, convinced Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-GA, to remove it before passage, according to House Transportation Committee sources. The ban on the national ID was then included the omnibus bill. However, Smith has continued to make efforts to kill the provision, according to a congressional source who has been working on the ban. "It's very hard to say just what will happen, but I do know that Smith has recruited help from some other members and the Speaker is considering their requests," said the source yesterday. It was Smith who got the national ID ban out of the transportation appropriations bill. "It was reported that Lamar Smith had obtained an agreement from Speaker Gingrich to eliminate this provision from the bill," reported Patrick Poole of the Free Congress Foundation. The ban was back in the bill "after many House members openly complained to the speaker about Lamar Smith's seemingly religious devotion to the national ID idea and the American peoples vehement opposition to being branded and tagged by the U.S. government," explained Poole. Numerous organizations opposed to the concept of a national ID rallied their members to send thousands of letters, faxes, and make phone calls to Congress for the past two weeks. Rep. Smith could not be reached on Sunday night by WorldNetDaily, but he did publish a letter in the Washington Times last Tuesday because of the many calls his office received. "I do not support a national ID card and don't know anyone in Congress who does," said Smith in his letter. He tried to label those voicing opposition as radicals when he added, "There are fringe groups that believe the United Nations is taking over Yellowstone National Park, that Congress is creating a national ID card or that they have been abducted by UFOs." The law to create a national ID card was passed as part of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. One section of the act requires all states to make their driver's licenses comply with certain guidelines found in Section 656 (b) of the act, including the use of the Social Security Number on all licences and in all data bases beginning Oct. 1, 2000. The act also calls for digitized biometric information to be a part of each license, or "smart card." The biometric information will include fingerprints, retina scans, DNA prints, and other similar information. Responsibility for the design and implementation of the cards has been given to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the Department of Transportation. That agency has recently published the proposed "Driver's License/SSN/National Identification Document," which contains the guidelines which must be in force by each state -- a federal mandate once campaigned against by many conservative Republicans. "These new national ID regulations violate every notion of federalism, because they force states to comply with regulations issued by the federal government without any constitutional authority to do so," said Poole recently. "Nor are federal agencies empowered to force states to gather detailed information on every person in order to comply with federal mandates. The net result of the DOT's regulations is to establish a national ID system, which has been opposed by almost every non-governmental sector for the past five decades." House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-TX, Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX, and Rep. Bob Barr, R-GA, have been working on repeal legislation, but there was insufficient time to bring it to a vote during this session of Congress. The DOT solicited public comments on their plans for implementation of Section 656 (b) of the act earlier this year. The public comment period has just closed and many thousands of letters in opposition were received, according to a spokesman. Five states also expressed opposition to the plan, and only a "small number" of letters supporting the plan were known to the spokesman, who spoke on condition that his name would not be published. One group that has worked diligently for the repeal of the national ID card was not surprised to learn of plans to remove the ban from the omnibus bill. "I won't be terribly disappointed if the one-year moratorium is removed from the appropriations bill. In fact, if left in, the moratorium may actually serve to provide an unwelcomed delay in this issue being addressed by Congress and the DOT," said Scott McDonald leader of "Fight the Fingerprint." McDonald says his group will use the situation to educate more people regardless of which way the bill ends up. He is concerned that national debate on the national ID will be delayed by the ban and would lessen the chances to get the law repealed. McDonald wants the debate to begin now. "Time is on the side of the proponents of the national ID. Opposition to any issue tends to wane as time passes. The American people have already firmly stated their strong opposition to the DOT's proposed standardized driver's license proposal. Now it's time for the DOT to act on behalf of the people they serve. The DOT should go back to Congress with a report stating that the American people do not want a national ID which the 1996 immigration law would establish via standardized driver's licenses," explained McDonald on Sunday. McDonald's group is opposed to the use of Social Security numbers from being used as past of driver's licences and in centralized government databases tied to driver's licenses and other government documents. His group is also opposed to the use of fingerprints on such records. In the event there is a moratorium on the implementation of the National ID, McDonald predicts there will be a good chance the DOT will design a compromise which will keep Social Security numbers off licences but keep the number on license applications and in universal data bases to keep track of individuals. Without a moratorium, a report must be provided by DOT detailing the responses they received from the public on the issue. McDonald wants Congress to see that report as soon as possible. "Without the temporary reprieve, the DOT is required by law to respond to all public comments which have been filed with the agency, and to publish their responses in the Federal Register," said McDonald. "I am anxious to see their responses. If the moratorium goes into effect, the DOT may be able to avoid this mandatory requirement. The American people deserve to be know what the DOT's official position is in response to the objections raised by those individuals and groups who took the time to object." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can call the capitol toll free at........1-800-378-1844 Lamar Smith..................................1-202-225-4236 Speaker Gingrich.............................1-202-225-0600 ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: <fingerprint(a)networkusa.org> ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to <majordomo(a)efga.org> and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo(a)majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ****************************************************

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IP: Brave New World of Implants
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: believer(a)telepath.com Subject: IP: Brave New World of Implants Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:42:06 -0500 To: believer(a)telepath.com Source: Jewish World Review / Oct. 19,1998 / 29 Tishrei, 5759 http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0798/mothernature.html Can we 'fool Mother Nature'? Do we want to? By David S. Oderberg IMAGINE THAT YOU have been fitted with a tiny electronic device, measuring nearly an inch long and a third of an inch wide. This device receives and emits radio waves in the presence of transceivers in 'intelligent' buildings fitted to recognize the unique signal emanating from the tiny 'smart' chip in your body. This chip, implanted just under the skin on your arm, has immense advantages. With it you can open and close doors, pass through security channels set up to recognize your identity, operate machines such as computers and faxes, and generally negotiate your technological world with greater ease and convenience than at present. You can even use your chip to carry out daily commerce. Swipe your arm over a scanner and you can make payments, have your account debited automatically, check you bank balance. In short, you can do everything which currently requires you to lug around a walletful of credit cards. One small catch, though: because of this chip, your whereabouts are known to others at every minute of every day. You can be tracked like a car or airplane. Orwellian nightmare? Delusional apocalyptic fantasy? One would have thought so, until it emerged in the British press a short while ago that Kevin Warwick, professor of cybernetics at the University of Reading -- my own university, as a matter of fact -- has decided to try out such a scenario on himself. Seeing himself as a latter day Edward Jenner -- the pioneering scientist who tried out the smallpox vaccine on his own body -- Prof. Warwick has entered the hallowed halls of self-experimentation by having just such a silicon chip injected under the skin near his elbow. He is, as far as anyone knows, the first person to do so. The results of his experiment are not yet known. He has to take antibiotics against the risk of infection, and is a little concerned his body will reject the alien device. Speaking of the doctor who agreed to implant the chip, Prof. Warwick says: "If it all goes wrong and my arm explodes, which I have been warned could happen, my wife will probably sue...". The good professor is, nevertheless, sanguine about the possible side effects. For he sees himself as a crusader at the cutting edge of cybertechnology. Already famous for his little machines -- looking a bit like cockroaches on wheels -- which, he glows, behave for all the world as though they have intelligence (something I and others doubted when we saw them in action), Prof. Warwick is thrusting forward in the attempt to fulfil the prophecy of his own recent best-seller, March of the Machines. "It is possible," he says, "for machines to become more intelligent than humans in the reasonably near future. Machines will then become the dominant life form on earth." Is this a tragedy? No, he adds blithely: "We are just an animal, not much better or worse than the other animals. We have our uses [sic], because we are different. We are slightly more intelligent than the other animals." The professor looks forward to the day when machines rule our lives. The fact that his microchip enables him to be traced is no great worry. His secretary finds it a boon: "It was often hard to find Prof. Warwick...but since the implant we always know where he is." And so would your employer if you were similarly implanted. You would be monitored every time you clocked in and out of work, or left the workplace. Prof. Warwick surmises the chip could carry all sorts of information, such as medical records, past convictions, financial data. "It is quite possible for an implant to replace an Access or Visa card. There is very little danger in losing an implant or having it stolen," he said. But it seems Prof. Warwick is alive to the dangers of the microchip implant: "I know all this smacks of Big Brother," he comments. Where the technology will ultimately go "I really don't know and would not like to envisage." By now, you may well be feeling a little spooked. This is not surprising. Nor should the experiment itself be such a shock. After all, on October 11th 1993, The Washington Times reported on the "high-tech national tattoo" made by Hughes Aircraft Company --- an implantable transponder which the company called "an ingenious, safe, inexpensive, foolproof and permanent method of ... identification using radio waves." In 1994, in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, it was reported that a local humane society offered pet owners, for $25, to inject their dogs or cats with a microchip, to prevent their being lost or stolen. A Dr. Carl Sanders, electronics engineer and inventor of the Intelligent Manned Interface biochip, told the Monetary Economic Review that satellites could be used to track people fitted with the IMI chip: "We used this with military personnel in the Iraq war where they were actually tracked using this particular type of device." Whether soldiers have actually 'volunteered' to be surgically implanted with the chip, as opposed to carrying it on their clothing, is not made clear by Dr. Sanders. But what we do know is that proponents of this technology envisage first using it on animals (now widespread, particularly dogs, cats and cattle), then prisoners (more effective than electronic ankle tags), then children (e.g., newborn babies, so as to prevent their being switched or lost) and elderly people suffering from Alzheimer's disease (to prevent their wandering and getting lost). After that, who knows? The potential for the chips to replace credit cards and cash is huge, and will tempt financial institutions in turn to tempt their customers to 'try out' the chip with no obligation to carry it permanently, and monetary rewards for those who persevere. Supporters of the injectible microchip say it is just the logical extension of a technology that already allows the heavy monitoring of people through pagers, cellular phones, 'smart' cards, and cars fitted with Global Positioning System transponders. On the other hand, could it not be said that the advent of the chip implant is the final outrage which demonstrates the inherent unacceptability of its technological ancestors? We are, it seems, fast approaching a world that even George Orwell was not able to envisage. Had the microchip implant been known in his day there can be no doubt it would have replaced the 'telescreen' in his dystopian novel 1984. The fact that the corporations and individuals promoting its use are not being bombarded daily with protests from millions of outraged citizens is itself cause for wonder. How, particularly in countries such as the USA and Britain in which civil liberties are so prized, is it possible for so much propaganda to reach the mass media with barely a hint of contrary opinion? Prof. Warwick has gained enormous publicity, and is flooded with calls from journalists wanting to know how his little experiment is going. Until, however, a sufficient number of citizens make known their implacable opposition to the totalitarian trend of a technology which threatens to reduce most humans to the status of cattle, the likes of Prof. Warwick will go about their evil work unperturbed. JWR contributor Dr. David S. Oderberg is Lecturer in Philosophy at the University of Reading, England, and a freelance journalist. ©1998, David S. Oderberg ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo(a)majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ****************************************************

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My citizenship renunciation made difficult
by Vincent Cate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My Barbados Embassy/Consulate contact Steve Steger (246) 228 4338 called me up and told me that the state department has not approved my renunciation - they say one of the forms the Barbados guys had me fill out is old. For those just tuning in, I renounced my citizenship to be free of US laws on cryptography. While I was at the Consulate they had me fill out a 1st set of forms, then said those were obsolete (a few years back) and after waiting around for hours they had me fill out a 2nd set of forms that they said was the current version. I filled out and signed everything they gave me. They then had an interview with several witnesses. They took my US passport and gave me copies of the 2nd version of all the forms with my signatures and theirs on them. Now Steve says that I am supposed to travel down to Barbados again using up my time and my money because of their error to do a 3rd version of their forms. Both the time and the money make this a hardship. They won't mail me this 3rd version of the forms and they won't pay for my trip (let alone time). It seems to me that since I told the New York times that I renounced my US citizenship, and they told the world, that it should be a done deal. Also, spending a day in the Consulate signing everything they gave me should be enough to do it. And why is a form saying basically "I renounce my citizenship" that worked awhile back not effective today? But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me permission to renounce my association with it seems totally wrong. The people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or subjects. Free means free to leave. Any advice? -- Vince ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vincent Cate Offshore Information Services Vince(a)Offshore.com.ai http://www.offshore.com.ai/ Anguilla, BWI http://www.offshore.com.ai/vince ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You have to take life as it happens, but you should try to make it happen the way you want to take it. - German Proverb

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My citizenship renunciation made difficult (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:17:12 -0400 (AST) > From: Vincent Cate <vince(a)offshore.com.ai> > Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult > But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me > permission to renounce my association with it seems totally wrong. The > people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or subjects. Free > means free to leave. > > Any advice? Sue. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Dorkslayers..
by Missouri FreeNet Administration 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We had a run-in with Dorkslayers last night too :( The first time we brought out our sendmail update, we left it in it's "Virgin state" for approximately 6 hours for monitoring. During that period we "failed" a "relay test", and were blacklisted. As an RBL subscriber, I was appalled at the difference in attitudes between vix and dorkslayers. It is obvious after just a momentary look at the web site that they are out to "have some fun" antagonizing others. The RBL will mail a notice. These slimebags don't even care if you have had an illegal relay: all they care about is finding an *excuse* to put you on their list. Why is a group "dedicated to saving the InterNet" giving it's biggest prominence (in terms of W3 space) to hate mail recieved from people that D/S has intentionally wronged? This group is actually *hurting* the cause significantly. I was furious enough that I almost left the anti-relay out just to piss them off. The problem is, *that's what they really want*. Getting off is easy, just configure your networks they way *THEY* want them configured: your clients/customers/employees can all go to hell as far as Dorkslayers is concerned. VERY POOR. Perhaps a torrent of mail asking *THEM* to clean up their act would be a "push in the right direction"? J.A. Terranson sysadmin(a)mfn.org (Who will not doubt be back on their list by tomorrow for daring to bad mouth the all-mighty "Dorkslayers")

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Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I've a point unrelated to this topic. I recieved two copies of your email. One was 101 lines and the other was 108 lines, the difference being 7 blank lines. Pretty curious, no? Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:15:13 -0400 > From: tzeruch(a)ceddec.com > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... > Not labor any more than capital. I think what you refer to is often > called "stakeholders" which includes suppliers and customers in addition > to employees. Well suppliers are a business unto themselves so I'm not sure I can extend my point that far. I certainly wouldn't include customers as this confuses the entire issue of the point of business (ie making a profit). If we extend the issue to include customers then we're looking at reducing our profit margin to zero as we discount our services to the customer over time. There is also the aspect that with this model we end up selling our service to ourselves, an inherently loosing proposition since there is no profit to be made at all in that case. > However you do not need to play games to justify proper treatment of > employees. I didn't mean to imply any sort of mistreatment, though I did raise that spectre in related postings. Sorry for the confusion. The point I was trying to make was that business has a third, and untried near as I can tell, strategy in approaching their business process. Include the employees in the plan with the specific goal of making them rich enough and invested enough so they don't have to work and do it in a short time span - say 10 years. I've read a few pieces (I must admit to viewing them as pie-in-the-sky) which predict that what will happen with technology is that people will begin to invest in automated processes and over time as these become ubiquitous people don't work, they live off their profit from the investment in these automated factories. One aspect, which I alluded to above, is that at some point the investors are also their own customers so that the profit they make to buy the materials is in a closed loop. This seems to me to invite a level of inflation (in order to preserve at least the ghost of a profit) that would explode pretty quickly. > If you consider capital such as a machine, it is usually > better to keep it well maintained and in good repair instead of letting it > wear out and rust - the quality of your goods will suffer, profits will go > down, and shareholders will dump management. True enough, though the machines don't retire (they do wear out). If we look at it from a strictly cost analysis perspective I'd agree with you (as I understand your point) fully. The question I have is what if we abandon the Friedman view and take on a more humanistic view. In short, business represent a participant in a social process. As a result they have more duties than just making profit for their shareholders (or stakeholders). [text deleted] > Our current stock market bubble - which is in the process of popping - > distorted this. I agree in part, I believe that the reason we're seeing the failure of the traditional economic systems is that in large scales with extremely fluid capital (intellectual, physical, monetary, etc.) it becomes very difficult to keep long term participants when there are so many more lucrative short-term potentials. I personaly feel the collapse of the CCCP in the early 90's is a good indication of this 'delayed responce' syndrome. I also believe the current problem with funding the government is another example where the gains are such that the traditional political and social views don't apply well enough so that the errors cancel each other out. Instead they pile on top of each other over time. My guess is that the current political system will collapse of its own ineptitude and lethargy as well as a wedding to outmoded ideas sometime in the next 20 years or so. What comes after, I believe at this point, will be a polycratic technocracy based on distributed democratic ideals. > My concept of Usury (yes, another mideval or earlier > idea) is loaning in the abstract. You just want 5% or 10%, and try to > find a piece of paper (or electronic book entry) that will return it > regardless of what is behind the paper. This can include ponzi schemes if > they aren't recognized as such. Oops, what's a 'ponzi scheme'? I can't find it in any of my texts.... > If people were really investing in the non-usurous sense, they would be > concerned with the company as an organic whole, with the suppliers, and > customers, and employees, and the physical plant and everything else, I understand the conept of 'organic whole'. I have to disagree at extending it to include the customers and suppliers for the reasons listed above. In a very real sense the term you use is more apt than anything I've come up with so far as a label. > If I want milk, I will be very concerned with keeping the cow happy and > healthy, and doing so rationally - pampering the cow too much won't give > any more milk and maybe make the cow less healthy, but starving it or > beating it would be worse. I agree, the interesting question - I hope without stretching the comparison too far - is what happens when the farmer figures out how to make the milk using a bacteria (for example) via genetic manipulation? (this is meant as an example of technical invasion of a traditional market) Does the farmer continue to feed the cow on principle (it being a fellow living creature and mankind having destroyed its natural habitats and hence we can't turn it loose) or simply kill the beast and sell the remains to the golden arches? > price didn't go up further). I haven't heard a reason connected with > something tangible (dividends, book-value, cash flow) for someone to own > such a stock. Only that "it the internet". And I think this decoupling > is at the center of what you are getting at. Paper v.s. people, and when > it comes time to decide, the paper wins. That is most definitely a major aspect of the problem. People get so dazzled by the visions of fruit plums dancing before their eyes they don't notice the snow has melted. > There is a lot of ignorance, and it is rational in the short term - these > stocks are going up, so it would otherwise make sense to follow the trend. > But if the trend is all that is being watched, who is going to care if > they are using slave-labor? - to mention just one issue. I'm afraid I don't quite catch your point here. Could you reword it? > But that is investing in a bubble. Exactly why I don't want to see an integrated world economy. It's doomed to fail from the get go. > The same thing happened in 1720 with > the South Seas company in Great Britian and the Mississippi Scheme in > France. I'll look into these as I'm not familiar with the particular. Thanks for the lead. > And I think we will see the same thing here and across the globe shortly. > Japan started to see this in the early '90s. Agreed. What I find really funny (in a macabre sort of sense I admit) is that the folks who are hording gold and other supposed universal valuables are in for a big surprise at what comes out of the other end. This is going to be a economic/political Industrial Revolution the likes of which haven't been seen since mankind invented the little clay balls for sealing contracts for selling sheep and such. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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