December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.
by Tyler Durden 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

Well, again you've WAY oversimplified things. Indeed, this oversimplification is curiously identical to US foregin policy mistakes. Ho Chi Min, like Mao, would take guns from anybody in order to get the job done. If that meant wearing a Soviet uniform for 15 minutes, then sobeit. Don't mistake that for Eastern-European-style Soviet block "governments". Was Ho Chi Min ultimately a dictator? Sure. A Soviet-style dictator? Well, I'd argue only nominally. I'd also argue that our post World War II betrayal of Ho had a lot to do with shoving him into the arms of the Soviets, just like with Mao. (But in neither case did the association stick.) The important notion is that, unlike in Europe, China and Vietnam never had anything resembling a democracy or Parliament or anything like that. They were still largely fuedal, agrarian societies that weren't really in a position to critically evaluate the implications of Soviet-style rulership (and in fact they probably viewed it as being merely a non-Monarchic version of what they'd always done). BUT...the Soviets were providing guns and money and we weren't. That both countries were really only externally Stalinst for a brief while (ie, a couple of decades) is evidenced by the fact that both economies are as about, in SOME ways, as free-wheeling and as capitalistic as exists these days. Of course, both are still certainly authoritarian and, depending on the subject, oppressive, but this has nothing to do with their politico-economic stance per se, as is now obvious. In other words, the moral of this story is that you can't merely graft on a western political philosophy--in this case Marxism--to cultures that have unbroken traditions dating back to the stone age. It may look 'Marxist' on the outside, but internally that transplant ain't going to take root. That US foreign policy in the far east in in Indo-China during most decades of the 20th century was a complete disaster was precisely due to the views you seem to hold. It's why we didn't back Mao when even though it was obvious BILLIONS of dollars were being siphoned away by Soong Tse-Vung and the Chiang regime...it's why we backed Lon Nol to overthrow Sihounouk (bringing in the Khmer rouge), and it's why we didn't back Ho even though he fought with us against the Japanese. Had we stood back from our prejudices, respected the soverignity of those nations, engaged and offered some guns in order for them to choose their OWN government, I'd bet the era of Soviet-style government in both China and Vietnam would have been much shorter, and in Cambodia it would have CERTAINLY never existed. In other words, YOU (and people with beliefs just like yours in the US government) are responsible for the spread of communism in the far east. Now you and your friends (including, I suspect, the guy who signs your paycheck) are going to do the same thing in the near east: you're going to force many ostensibly neutral nations into the Fundamentalist Islamic camp, because you just don't get it, and think we have the right to interfere. "Well, the Soviets did it and the liberal left said it was great, so that makes it right." Forget it. Stop saying this crap and use that brain. 9/11 sucked enough in this town...we don't need another. -TD >From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)minder.net >Subject: Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam. >Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:35:39 -0800 > > -- >On 22 Dec 2003 at 22:02, Tyler Durden wrote: > > If you think Ho Chi Minh was a KGB sockpuppet then you really > > don't know anything about Vietnam, China, or East Asian > > history. > >He was not a KGB sock puppet. He was KGB. > >The indochinese communist party was run from a desk in Moscow, >and the guy behind that desk in Moscow was one Ho Chi Minh. > > > --digsig > James A. Donald > 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG > tUqRWDkYAq3CLoQkZ14K0qF1d7QxbWlf6d2ZXjZs > 43Qc8nduD4tJh6uumE28HC7EsKfnNFvnGEYCCH0BO _________________________________________________________________ Have fun customizing MSN Messenger learn how here! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize

2 1

[IP] Tracking devices required for hassle-free travel? (fwd from dave@farber.net)
by Eugen Leitl 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

----- Forwarded message from Dave Farber <dave(a)farber.net> -----

2 1

Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.
by Tyler Durden 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

James Donald wrote... "They were supposedly supporters of the NLF, which they well knew was a North Vietnamese sock puppet, and thus a KGB sock puppet. " Uh...huh? You really get a lot of things mixed up. If you think Ho Chi Minh was a KGB sockpuppet then you really don't know anything about Vietnam, China, or East Asian history. Think of Ho Chi Min as, utlimately, a violent pragmatist...he was going to get his guns from whoever he could, and that's what he did. He also had Chinese guns and, during WWII, American guns (yes: We were allied with Ho Chi Minh against the Japanese during WWII). Likewise, you accused Saddam Hussein of being allied with bin Laden, which is also silly. In fact, bin Laden has regularly called for Saddam's death, and I see no reason to believe he wasn't serious. Likewise, your lambasting of Chomsky on the "Chomsky Dis" website also indicates huge and suspicious gaps in knowledge. I'm starting to connect the dots here: I dare you to read the name that signs your paycheck. -TD >From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam. >Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:14:20 -0800 > > -- >On 22 Dec 2003 at 1:10, Tim May wrote: > > I, and many others, were against the war in Vietnam without > > being supporters of Ho Chi Minh or the Soviets or anyone of > > that ilk > >True, but amongst the vast mass chanting Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, >one could no more discern principled opponents of the Vietnam >war, than one can today discern principled opponents of the >Iraqi war among the Americans worrying about poor little >victimized Saddam, and the mass of Europeans jumping for joy >over the fall of the two towers. > >Amidst the pro Saddam posters on this thread, many have come >rather close to chanting "Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh" -- for the >example the argument that the evil CIA deprived the third world >masses of their beloved socialism provided by benevolent >dictators, and the argument that the US "created' the Afghan >resistance -- and thus presumably every other resistance >movement against the Soviets. > > > Essentially _none_ of them were supporters of the Soviets or > > the North Vietnamese qua North Vietnamese.) > >Now I get to call you the pinko: > >They were supposedly supporters of the NLF, which they well >knew was a North Vietnamese sock puppet, and thus a KGB sock >puppet. And when that sock puppet was discarded to reveal the >iron fist of the NVA that had been moving its lips, none of >them were surprised or dismayed. Similarly Jane Fonda was >supposedly not a supporter of the North Vietnamese qua North >Vietnamese, yet without hesitation she lied about the condition >and treatment of the POWs she met, whom she depicted as >leniently treated war criminals. When some of those she lied >about returned home to speak the truth, she stuck to her >position, counter attacking them as hypocrites and liars, >denying that they had shown signs of starvation and torture. > >I find it strange that the speakers at your rally were so >remarkably different from the speakers at my rally -- >particularly when so many of the pro Saddam posters in this >thread sound like they are new nyms for the same people who >spoke at my rally. > >If any of your speakers really thought the NLF was something >other than a KGB sock puppet, they would have had posters of >the supposed NLF leader on their wall. Instead, not one of >these supposed supporters of the NLF blinked when the most of >the NLF vanished in the 1975 purge. > > > --digsig > James A. Donald > 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG > vgi7SNuqDzYgX5I5Cmd4QPW+QLDM2w78B+RO1o8f > 4oxwhPbCXdnYRp30H5XOTLwLfzQyCsQo15VgpDWYW _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com

2 1

Trusted Computing = Kevlar Doors
by Major Variola (ret.) 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

When the Trust Computing Worm (tm) comes out, will anyone recognize it as a version of the jihadist pilot who uses the impenetrable aircraft door? Just wondering. And doesn't Tom Ridge look great in Orange?

1 0

Humiliating the Conquered, Part II
by Eric Cordian 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

If you think it was embarrassing for the former regime in Iraq to see their fearless leader getting a public louse inspection, just wait until Christmas, when America again demonstrates it can walk the streets of Baghdad with impunity. Yesterday, the crew of WWE Smackdown arrived in Baghdad to set up for their special Christmas broadcast of Smackdown! "Live from Baghdad." "The Smackdown crew with Steve Austin arrived yesterday in Baghdad at the 28th U.S. Military Combat Support Hospital to hand out gift packages to troops and give t-shirts to those injured." "World Wrestling Entertainment in proud to present a special edition of SmackDown! from Baghdad on Christmas night. Join the Superstars of SmackDown! as they have the honor of competing in front of Americas troops in what should be an evening filled with action, excitement and emotion." Goodness, where are the Donkey Carts of Mass Destruction when they are really needed. :) -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

1 0

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by Tarapia Tapioco 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

Harmon Seaver wrote: > > This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq. > > We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism. > > No we don't. We only know what the propaganda mills have told us. > Twenty years ago it was a different story. The propaganda mills were working for Saddam, not against him. <http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/04/1599076.php> "Over the last dozen years I made 13 trips to Baghdad to lobby the government to keep CNN's Baghdad bureau open and to arrange interviews with Iraqi leaders. Each time I visited, I became more distressed by what I saw and heard - awful things that could not be reported because doing so would have jeopardized the lives of Iraqis, particularly those on our Baghdad staff." <http://www.techcentralstation.com/041103H.html> "It appears there is another, more troubling, reason Jordan decided not to report these hideous crimes until the regime was safely out of the way: CNN didn't want to lose its on-the-ground access to a big story." Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, and countless Iraqi refugees all report similar stories of widespread torture and murder. Is it your position that these are all propagandists? Dismissing as "propaganda" any reports that oppose your argument, while accepting as truth any claim that supports it, is simple intellectual dishonesty.

12 28

UN using Satellite Photos to track Israeli Apartheid Wall
by Bill Stewart 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3334235.stm It's fun what you can do with satellite images. The UN's using them to track the progress of the apartheid wall that Israel's building to "keep Palestinian suicide bombers out". They haven't been all that careful about whose land they're excluding.

1 0

Cypherpunks List Info
by cpunk＠lne.com 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

Cypherpunks Mailing List Information Last updated: Oct 13, 2003 This message is also available at http://www.lne.com/cpunk Instructions on unsubscribing from the list can be found below. 0. Introduction The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society. It is not a moderated list (but see exceptions below) and the list operators are not responsible for the list content. Cypherpunks is a distributed mailing list. A subscriber can subscribe to one node of the list and thereby participate on the full list. Each node (called a "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer", although they are not related to anonymous remailers) exchanges messages with the other nodes in addition to sending messages to its subscribers. A message posted to one node will be received by the list subscribers on the other nodes, and vice-versa. 1. Filtering The various CDRs follow different policies on filtering spam and to a lesser extent on modifying messages that go to/from their subscribers. Filtering is done, on nodes that do it, to reduce the huge amount of spam that the cypherpunks list is subjected to. There are three basic flavors of filtering CDRs: "raw", which send all messages to their subscribers. "cooked" CDRs try to eliminate the spam on that's on the regular list by automatically sending only messages that are from cypherpunks list subscribers (on any CDR) or people who are replying to list messages. Finally there are moderated lists, where a human moderator decides which messages from the raw list to pass on to subscribers. 2. Message Modification Message modification policy indicates what modifications, if any, beyond what is needed to operate the CDR are done (most CDRs add a tracking X-loop header on mail posted to their subscribers to prevent mail loops). Message modification usually happens on mail going in or out to each CDR's subscribers. CDRs should not modify mail that they pass from one CDR to the next, but some of them do, and others undo those modifications. 3. Privacy Privacy policy indicates if the list will allow anyone ("open"), or only list members, or no one ("private") , to retrieve the subscribers list. Note that if you post, being on a "private" list doesn't mean much, since your address is now out there. It's really only useful for keeping spammers from harvesting addresses from the list software. Digest mode indicates that the CDR supports digest mode, which is where the posts are batched up into a few large emails. Nodes that support only digest mode are noted. 4. Anonymous posting Cypherpunks encourages anonymous posting. You can use an anonymous remailer: http://www.andrebacard.com/remail.html http://anon.efga.org/Remailers http://www.gilc.org/speech/anonymous/remailer.html 5. Unsubscribing Unsubscribing from the cypherpunks list: Since the list is run from a number of different CDRs, you have to figure out which CDR you are subscribed to. If you don't remember and can't figure it out from the mail headers (hint: the top Received: line should tell you), the easiest way to unsubscribe is to send unsubscribe messages to all the CDRs listed below. How to figure out which CDR you are subscribed to: Get your mail client to show all the headers (Microsoft calls this "internet headers"). Look for the Sender or X-loop headers. The Sender will say something like "Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)lne.com". The X-loop line will say something like "X-Loop: cypherpunks(a)lne.com". Both of these inticate that you are subscribed to the lne.com CDR. If you were subscribed to the algebra CDR, they would have algebra.com in them. Once you have figured out which CDR you're subscribed to, look in the table below to find that CDRs unsubscribe instructions. 6. Lunatics, spammers and nut-cases "I'm subscribed to a filtering CDR yet I still see lots of junk postings". At this writing there are a few sociopaths on the cypherpunks list who are abusing the lists openness by dumping reams of propaganda on the list. The distinction between a spammer and a subscriber is nearly always very clear, but the dictinction between a subscriber who is abusing the list by posting reams of propaganda and a subscriber who is making lots of controversial posts is not clear. Therefore, we tolerate the crap. Subscribers with a low crap tolerance should check out mail filters. Procmail is a good one, although it works on Unix and Unix-like systems only. Eudora also has a capacity for filtering mail, as do many other mail readers. An example procmail recipie is below, you will of course want to make your own decisions on which (ab)users to filter. # mailing lists: # filter all cypherpunks mail into its own cypherspool folder, discarding # mail from loons. All CDRs set their From: line to 'owner-cypherpunks'. # /dev/null is unix for the trash can. :0 * ^From.*owner-cypherpunks@.* { :0: * (^From:.*ravage@ssz\.com.*|\ ^From:.*jchoate@dev.tivoli.com.*|\ ^From:.*mattd@useoz.com|\ ^From:.*proffr11@bigpond.com|\ ^From:.*jei@cc.hut.fi) /dev/null :0: cypherspool } 7. List of current CDRs All commands are sent in the body of mail unless otherwise noted. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Algebra: Operator: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)algebra.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)algebra.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)algebra.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? Info: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- CCC: Operator: drt(a)un.bewaff.net Subscription: "subscribe [password of your choice]" to cypherpunks-request(a)koeln.ccc.de Unsubscription: "unsubscribe <password>" to cypherpunks-request(a)koeln.ccc.de Help: "help" to to cypherpunks-request(a)koeln.ccc.de Web site: http://koeln.ccc.de/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks Posting address: cypherpunks(a)koeln.ccc.de Filtering policy: This specific node drops messages bigger than 32k and every message with more than 17 recipients or just a line containing "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject. Digest mode: this node is digest-only NNTP: news://koeln.ccc.de/cbone.ml.cypherpunks Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Infonex: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)infonex.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)infonex.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)infonex.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)infonex.com Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lne: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)lne.com Filtering policy: cooked Posts from all CDR subscribers & replies to threads go to lne CDR subscribers. All posts from other CDRs are forwarded to other CDRs unmodified. Message Modification policy: 1. messages are demimed (MIME attachments removed) when posted through lne or received by lne CDR subscribers 2. leading "CDR:" in subject line removed 3. "Reply-to:" removed Privacy policy: private Info: http://www.lne.com/cpunk; "info cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Archive: http://archives.abditum.com/cypherpunks/index.html (thanks to Steve Furlong and Len Sassaman) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Minder: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)minder.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)minder.net Help: "help" to majordomo(a)minder.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)minder.net Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: private Info: send mail to cypherpunks-info(a)minder.net --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Openpgp: [openpgp seems to have dropped off the end of the world-- it doesn't return anything from sending help queries. Ericm, 8/7/01] Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to listproc(a)openpgp.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to listproc(a)openpgp.net Help: "help" to listproc(a)openpgp.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)openpgp.net Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sunder: Subscription: "subscribe" to sunder(a)sunder.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe" to sunder(a)sunder.net Help: "help" to sunder(a)sunder.net Posting address: sunder(a)sunder.net Filtering policy: moderated Message Modification policy: ??? Privacy policy: ??? Info: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pro-ns: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)pro-ns.net Filtering policy: cooked Posts from all CDR subscribers & replies to threads go to local CDR subscribers. All posts from other CDRs are forwarded to other CDRs unmodified. Message Modification policy: 1. leading "CDR:" in subject line removed 2. "Reply-to:" removed Privacy policy: private Info: http://www.pro-ns.net/cpunk

1 0

Give us at least 3 Nyms
by Major Variola (ret.) 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

. We had to get very disciplined and accept nothing less than three names." A major obstacle was simply gathering the names correctly, considering that many Arabs have four proper names, including family and tribal surnames http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-tribalcode21dec21,1,4576…

1 0

Indications Saddam Was Not in Hiding But a Captive
by Michael Kalus 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 http://www.debka.com/article_print.php?aid=743 Indications Saddam Was Not in Hiding But a Captive DEBKAfile Special Report December 14, 2003, 6:55 PM (GMT+02:00) A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13: 1. The length and state of his hair indicated he had not seen a barber or even had a shampoo for several weeks. 2. The wild state of his beard indicated he had not shaved for the same period 3. The hole dug in the floor of a cellar in a farm compound near Tikrit was primitive indeed b 6ft across and 8ft across with minimal sanitary arrangements - a far cry from his opulent palaces. 4. Saddam looked beaten and hungry. 5. Detained trying to escape were two unidentified men. Left with him were two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used. 6. The hole had only one opening. It was not only camouflaged with mud and bricks b it was blocked. He could not have climbed out without someone on the outside removing the covering. 7. And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him (a pittance for his captors who expected a $25m reward)b but no communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world. According to DEBKAfile analysts, these seven anomalies point to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein was not in hiding; he was a prisoner. After his last audiotaped message was delivered and aired over al Arabiya TV on Sunday November 16, on the occasion of Ramadan, Saddam was seized, possibly with the connivance of his own men, and held in that hole in Adwar for three weeks or more, which would have accounted for his appearance and condition. Meanwhile, his captors bargained for the $25 m prize the Americans promised for information leading to his capture alive or dead. The negotiations were mediated by Jalal Talabanibs Kurdish PUK militia. These circumstances would explain the ex-rulerbs docility b described by Lt.Gen. Ricardo Sanchez as b resignationb b in the face of his capture by US forces. He must have regarded them as his rescuers and would have greeted them with relief. From Gen. Sanchezbs evasive answers to questions on the $25m bounty, it may be inferred that the Americans and Kurds took advantage of the negotiations with Saddambs abductors to move in close and capture him on their own account, for three reasons: A. His capture had become a matter of national pride for the Americans. No kudos would have been attached to his handover by a local gang of bounty-seekers or criminals. The country would have been swept anew with rumors that the big hero Saddam was again betrayed by the people he trusted, just as in the war. B. It was vital to catch his kidnappers unawares so as to make sure Saddam was taken alive. They might well have killed him and demanded the prize for his body. But they made sure he had no means of taking his own life and may have kept him sedated. C. During the weeks he is presumed to have been in captivity, guerrilla activity declined markedly b especially in the Sunni Triangle towns of Falluja, Ramadi and Balad - while surging outside this flashpoint region b in Mosul in the north and Najef, Nasseriya and Hilla in the south. It was important for the coalition to lay hands on him before the epicenter of the violence turned back towards Baghdad and the center of the Sunni Triangle. The next thing to watch now is not just where and when Saddam is brought to justice for countless crimes against his people and humanity - - Sanchez said his interrogation will take b as long as it takes b but what happens to the insurgency. Will it escalate or gradually die down? An answer to this, according to DEBKAfilebs counter-terror sources, was received in Washington nine days before Saddam reached US custody. It came in the form of a disturbing piece of intelligence that the notorious Lebanese terrorist and hostage-taker Imad Mughniyeh, who figures on the most wanted list of 22 men published by the FBI after 9/11, had arrived in southern Iraq and was organizing a new anti-US terror campaign to be launched in March-April 2004, marking the first year of the American invasion. For the past 21 years, Mughniyeh has waged a war of terror against Americans, whether on behalf of the Hizballah, the Iranian Shiite fundamentalists, al Qaeda or for himself. The Lebanese arch-terrorist represents for the anti-American forces in Iraq an ultimate weapon. Saddambs capture will not turn this offensive aside; it may even bring it forward. For Israel, there are three lessons to be drawn from the dramatic turn of events in Iraq: First, An enemy must be pursued to the end and if necessary taken captive. The Sharon governmentbs conduct of an uncertain, wavering war against the Palestinian terror chief Yasser Arafat stands in stark contrast to the way the Americans have fought Saddam and his cohorts in Iraq and which has brought them impressive gains. Second, Israel must join the US in bracing for the decisive round of violence under preparation by Mughniyeh, an old common enemy from the days of Beirut in the 1980s. Only three weeks ago, DEBKAfilebs military sources reveal, the terrorist mastermind himself was seen in south Lebanon in surveillance of northern Israel in the company of Iranian military officers. With this peril still to be fought, it is meaningless for Israelis to dicker over the Geneva Accord, unilateral steps around the Middle East road map, or even the defensive barrier. Third, Certain Israeli pundits and even politicians, influenced by opinion in Europe, declared frequently in recent weeks that the Americans had no hope of capturing Saddam Hussein and were therefore bogged down irretrievably in Iraq. The inference was that the Americans erred in embarking on an unwinnable war in Iraq. This was wide of the mark even before Saddam was brought in. The Americans are in firm control - even though they face a tough new adversary b and the whole purpose of the defeatist argument heard in Israel was to persuade the Sharon government that its position in relation to the Palestinians and Yasser Arafat is as hopeless as that of the Americans in Iraq. Israelbs only choice, according to this argument, is to knuckle under to Palestinian demands and give them what they want. Now that the Iraqi ruler is in American custody, they will have to think again. b14 December Commander of US ground forces in Iraq, Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, said at the dramatic news conference in Baghdad (Bremer: We Got him!), that Saddam Hussein was discovered in a b spider holeb 6-8ft deep behind a mud hut in a walled farm compound in Adwar, a town 15 km from Tikrit, eight months after his regime was toppled. His capture was achieved without a shot fired and no injuries. He was emaciated, tired and unkempt and had grown a gray beard. The initial medical examination was videotaped and aired. He was then shaved for identification. Found with him were two AK-47 assault rifles and $750,000. Two associates were detained with him. A ventilator enabled them to stay underground. The hole in which Saddam was hiding was camouflaged with bricks and dirt. Operation b Red Dawnb was carried by 4th Infantry Division and coalition special forces b 600 men. It was made possible by a great deal of human intelligence and the interrogation of captives. Gen. Sanchez reported the deposed Iraqi ruler, discovered Saturday, December 13, at 8.30 pm local time, showed no resistance and appeared resigned to his fate. He was b talkative and cooperativeb while being taken to a secure place. The interrogation will b take as long as it takes.b US administrator Paul Bremer called on the Iraqi people to turn to reconciliation and Saddambs followers to lay down their arms. US troops poured into Baghdad and blocked the road-bridges into the capital as soon as word spread, in anticipation of violence from Saddam fedayeen or foreign terrorists fighting the US-led coalition presence. Baghdadis fired guns in the air to celebrate the capture of the man who ruled the country with an iron fist for 23 years. Kurdish and Shiite towns filled with dancing and jubilation. Iraq officials demand Saddam be handed over to the new Iraqi war crimes tribunal to be judged for the murder of 300,000 Iraqis. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0.3 iQA/AwUBP+ZImGlCnxcrW2uuEQJeCQCfT2ADo3h8UQBJTwaP8F0OkX3OJ0YAnjHn AaAM+czY70SpxOgvVfauZvuD =SId2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Re: I am anti war. Yawn.
by Major Variola (ret) 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

At 05:41 PM 12/20/03 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: > >Anyone who wants to argue that the guys in the two towers had >it coming, "Collateral damage". The workers at say a WWII refinery did not directly do evil to anyone. Still, they were killed, because of where they were. Bummer, eh? Sleep with dogs.. Better put some ice on that, bub.

1 0

Mitnick wants war stories
by Tim Meehan 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

This sounds like a very interesting project! -Tim http://news.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020330,39118685,00.htm Mitnick calls for hackers' war stories Patrick Gray ZDNet Australia December 19, 2003, 10:40 GMT Notorious hacker Kevin Mitnick is collating tales of hackers' 'art' into a book Famed hacker and master social engineer Kevin Mitnick has been commissioned to write a new book following the success of his first text The Art of Deception. The new book, tentatively titled The Art of Intrusion will tell the stories of real hacks, with the names of attackers obscured to protect them from the authorities and their victims. Mitnick has called on retired hackers to come forward with their stories, offering a $500 (#283) prize for the best story that makes it into the book, and a $200 payment for all stories that make the final draft. "I'm going to tell the true stories of some of the untold most salacious hacks in cyberspace. The sexy, the ingenious, the innovative and the clever," he told ZDNet Australia by phone from the US "The stories are not going to be the same attack vector or the same class of vulnerability. I'm looking for stories that will include a variety of attack methods exploiting physical, operational, network host, and personnel security vulnerabilities." Fame found Kevin Mitnick when the US government made an example of him, incarcerating him for five years for computer based offences. Four of his years inside were served before he was even tried, and he was forced to endure eight months in solitary confinement because "the government said I could start a nuclear war if I had access to a telephone," Mitnick says. In trouble with the law for technological mischief since 1982, Mitnick became a fugitive in January 1993 when he skipped town after authorities sought to question him about a possible parole violation. During that time he used various aliases, including Eric Weiss -- Harry Houdini's real name -- and worked several jobs, including a stint as a systems administrator at a law firm. He was captured in 1995 by the FBI after two years on the run. The hunt for Mitnick and his subsequent capture were dramatised in the novel Takedown, which was subsequently turned into a movie of the same name. The book was written by Mitnick's rival and security professional Tsutomu Shimomura, and co-authored by New York Times journalist John Markoff. Shimomura assisted the FBI in tracking Mitnick, who launched a scathing attack on the Takedown account of events in a chapter of his last book that was never published. Mitnick was released from custody into supervised release in early 2000. The conditions of his release meant he was not allowed to use a computer. When it came time to write his book, however, the government was flexible. "The government had given me permission to obtain a computer prior to my supervised release expiring. I wasn't permitted to use the Internet but I did use a computer to do the last book. It was more difficult... I had to actually send a floppy disk to my co-author, that's how we traded material -- by physical postal mail," Mitnick explained. "But now these restrictions have been lifted I think it's really going to increase our productivity now we can use this marvellous thing called email." The terms of Mitnick's supervised release were lifted in January this year. As well as being able to use the Internet again, Mitnick has been able to leave the US -- a luxury not afforded to him while under the conditions of his release agreement. "Lately I've been travelling all around the world, I've been to Brazil -- I just got back from Portugal. I've been in the Czech Republic, Poland, Spain, Helsinki [in] Finland -- which is kind of funny because Nokia mobile phones, one of our prior victims, actually sponsored my talk which is great. They've been forgiving," he said. Conceding his notoriety is at least in part responsible for his "reversal of fortune" -- he claimed he was worried that the initial conditions of his release would make it difficult for him to find a job -- Mitnick says his well-known name is useful in getting his foot in the door. "My demand in the speaking arena -- my name value or my branding -- is really a product of the sensationalism that was attached to the 'Kevin Mitnick' case... if that never happened I might be a fantastic author, a fantastic consultant, and a world renowned security professional, but by name I might not be known," Mitnick argued. "I do attribute the trials and tribulations that I experienced in the past to why my name is so well known, and... this notoriety -- it does drive some business." Mitnick plans to hand the finished manuscript to his publisher in September next year. Have you got a story for Mitnick's new book? Email him at hacks(a)defensivethinking.com.

1 0

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
by Freematt357＠aol.com 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

In a message dated 12/19/2003 8:33:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, jdd(a)dixons.org writes: > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > >>Why does the US military have > >>to treat them as though they had US constitutional rights? They are not > >>citizens or physically present in the United States. > > > >In a nutshell, our Constitution *recognizes* universal human rights. It > does > >not *establish* these rights. If we are going to be faithful to this > >premise, physical location is a non-sequitor. > > This is a valid and probably commendable political position. I do not > believe, however, that it reflects current practice in the USA or > elsewhere. > > I say "probably" because it seems likely that adopting this as a practice > would have very high costs. You deserve a Tim response, but that ain't my style- Of course the USA doesn't currently practice upholding the universal rights that our constitution recognizes, this is why Tim suggests that people need to be shot, or be fucked till dead. And why would you think that American judicial morality and justice should be dependent on cost? After all it would be cheaper for the cops on a traffic stop to administratively just shoot you in the head for an offense then go through the costs and rigors of a trial. Regards, Matt-

7 9

Re: "the Kuwait issue is not associated with America"
by Freematt357＠aol.com 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

I'm not sure what your motivation is for wanting to rewrite history, but that isn't what Glaspie said. There's a video interview I saw about all of this on 60 minutes (I think) where it was made clear that Glaspie did in fact say to Saddam that "We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait." Regards, Matt-

3 2

Streisand loses to Adleman over California Coastline pics
by Bill Stewart 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

http://www.californiacoastline.org/streisand/pressrelease-decision.html Ken Adleman and his wife photographed the entire California coastline from their helicopter and put it on line free to the public. Barbara Streisand, ostensible environmentalist, sued because it might let gawking fans figure out how to get near her Malibu estate. The suit was against Adleman and his ISPs. The court agreed that free speech wins and that this was a SLAPP suit, and dinged her for legal fees.

1 0

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
by James A. Donald 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 21:37, Freematt357(a)aol.com wrote: > That's bullshit. Saddam was told by our Chick ambassador (I > can't remember her name) that the US had no interest in his > dispute with Kuwait, in effect giving Saddam a green light. Commie lie http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html What Glaspie said was: : : The instruction we had during this period was that : : we should express no opinion on this issue and that : : the issue is not associated with America. James : : Baker has directed our official spokesmen to : : emphasize this instruction. We hope you can solve : : this problem using any suitable methods via Klibi or : : via President Mubarak. All that we hope is that : : these issues are solved quickly. With regard to all : : of this, can I ask you to see how the issue appears : : to us? : : : : My assessment after 25 years' service in this area : : is that your objective must have strong backing from : : your Arab brothers. I now speak of oil But you, Mr. : : President, have fought through a horrific and : : painful war. Frankly, we can see only that you have : : deployed massive troops in the south. Normally that : : would not be any of our business. But when this : : happens in the context of what you said on your : : national day, then when we read the details in the : : two letters of the Foreign Minister, then when we : : see the Iraqi point of view that the measures taken : : by the U.A.E. and Kuwait is, in the final analysis, : : parallel to military aggression against Iraq, then : : it would be reasonable for me to be concerned. And : : for this reason, I received an instruction to ask : : you, in the spirit of friendship -- not in the : : spirit of confrontation -- regarding your : : intentions. Which is diplomat talk for threats and menaces, not a green light. When she asks him to see 'how the issue appears to us" this is diplomat code for "I cannot state plainly how the issue appears to us because that would constitute making threats." And when she says "I ask not in the spirit of confrontation" that means "If the answer is unacceptable, there may well be a confrontation' --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG lzBXFdOUF+tOl6rQBvd0AC1waiR3dN1345QzG0hr 4avCGxaFFDmv2sq/x5Ltz8sQgA0tgllba+DAdFQq7

1 0

RE: The killer app for encryption
by Major Variola (ret) 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

At 08:18 PM 12/19/03 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: [on onion routing POTS] >"trace" that call, or payment for that matter. So if bin Laden were feelin' >lonely one day and signed onto the network, you could give him a call, >without him worrying about the missles falling within a few minutes. > >-TD If you ran voice analysis over every POTS call and then directed your missile at the customer demarc you'd get your man. A good reason to decrypt to analog the voice at the endpoint, eh?

1 0

"the Kuwait issue is not associated with America"
by Nomen Nescio 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Thanks Steve, I don't think I have heard this before. I googled on the text you quoted and found this url http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_andambassaprilglaspie22303.html and a few more http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html I don't know what to say. This makes me sick to my stomach. I guess one way of lookin at this is that U.S. played dirty and deceiving. U.S. is more or less the reason Iraq invaded Kuwait. I guess this is not told on Fox news.

2 1

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
by Freematt357＠aol.com 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

In a message dated 12/19/2003 3:38:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, jamesd(a)echeque.com writes: > Saddam was warned that if he took Kuwait, terrible consequences > might well follow. > > That's bullshit. Saddam was told by our Chick ambassador (I can't remember her name) that the US had no interest in his dispute with Kuwait, in effect giving Saddam a green light. Regards, Matt-

3 2

fox news
by privacy.at Anonymous Remailer 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

http://www.fauxnewschannel.com/

1 0

RE: The killer app for encryption
by Tyler Durden 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Uh...I assume you're quoting somebody here? The last point is actually a very good one, but getting there requires hacking through gobbledeegook. What's this "all businessmen" silliness? And using vpns WITHIN a company? As an employee of a major Wall Street firm, I can tell you that's completely wrong. But the interesting thing, which again is "obvious" is, "How will P2P Networks morph into something like blacknet?" I'm very interested in hearing about whether any P2P networks support encrypted transactions of any sort yet (ie, can one yet pay for some files via P2P)? Are there any P2P Networks being designed deliberately to support anything/everything, including peered IP Telephony? -TD >From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com >Subject: The killer app for encryption >Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:47:14 -0800 > > -- >Encryption is a defense against threats. For people to adopt >encryption, they need to be threatened. > >All businessmen are guilty of insider trading and destruction >of evidence. In consequence all businessmen use encrypted vpn >internally within companies, but not, however, in external >communications, rendering a public key infrastructure quite >useless. For widespread tax evasion to take off, we would like >widespread use of public keys. > >Now the entire population is guilty of file trading. Pretty >soon, therefore, the entire population will be using >encryption, but it is far from clear that this encryption will >enable all the potential uses of encryption that cypherpunks >foresaw. > > --digsig > James A. Donald > 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG > 5fFQJC040+P9QrkF8BhWR4nUBWhNmexs1EH0ej6o > 4a8EuzGFht8mQloFG16q2B76njPoWM/jVAzYAxKoQ _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

3 2

(No Subject)
by Anonymous 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Re saddam et all... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EL19Ak01.html The war of words over Saddam & Bush is quite amusing. The blind faith in ones govt structure and the willingness to support force that is in such extreme measure overpowering and statist such as the dropping of tons of depleted uranium high explosives shows that some on this list have not broadened their news reading beyond fox news. What courage is required to fly at 40000 ft and drop the MOAB containing DU on essentially defenceless targets? How can people think that Bush would never harm civilians? It does not really matter if there are democrats in the whitehouse or "republican" kings appointed by courts. Just because you choose not to deeply examine the effects of the policies of your govt does not make them "reasonable". Successful policies and reasonable policies can be two different things. Its possible to be both successful and reasonable. Its also possible to be successful and un-reasonable... http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html http://www.robert-fisk.com/depleted_uranium_links.htm Saddam merely gassed a few thousand people maybe. Bush senior's gulf war and now Shrub's fine legacy will ensure the slow torturous death of many generations of Iraqis and those American soldiers involved. The awful horrors of Stalin, Hitler and Saddam will pass with a few generations... the half-life of DU is in billions of years.Re American soldiers: Bush has cut medical care for active duty personnel as well as veterans.(link via google search: http://www.veteransforpeace.org/bush_cuts_vet_benefits_041503.htm) The childish blind faith in US statist instituitions does not make their pronouncements right.This is no better than those that blindly followed their communist or nazi leaders. The USA is at the heights of its power because of a well defined strategy of monetary and military control of the world (the dollar as the currency of international trade and its consequences, see links below). Only the people of the USA can prevent the degeneration of their vaunted state into a hellhole that will make the Soviets blush. The seeds are in place - fine grained monetary oversight, 99.99% unsecured easily intercepted private conversation, the shredding of the "bill of rights", willing armies of police and other govt organized thugs, the impending death of the dollar as the only currency of international trade, the overvalued stock market with absurd PEs, the willingness to scam for a buck (Enrons, Halliburton etc), the lack of true capitalism and open competition in certain sectors [eg medical cos, microsoft]. Those on this list should know better. Note: I'm not suggesting that this is going to happen overnight, but as I said the seeds are in place... Some links to ponder: Why is the width of damage to the pentagon not as wide as a 757 (flt 77)? http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/pentagon/index.html http://911research.wtc7.net/ http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/index.html Dollar: http://home.flash.net/~rhmjr/c1219.html http://home.flash.net/~rhmjr/index.html http://thoughts.editthispage.com/ http://www.justiceplus.org/bankers.htm Dollar and war: http://www.pressurepoint.org/pp_iraq_dollars_euro_war.html http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html USS liberty [or the lies the US govt will tell] http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/ http://www.ussliberty.org/ Former KGB head consults for US Dept of homeland security: http://www.impeach-bush-now.org/Articles/Americans/USSA.htm http://www.threadcity.com/cgi-local/social/config.pl?read=27 Of course there will be the chest pounders vouching for their wonderful state... about how all this is Internet garbage. Those unwilling to make a deep and wide investigation are unteachable. Bush needs you.

1 0

RE: The killer app for encryption
by Tyler Durden 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

"I'm not certain, but I think there are some MS certified modems which have a generalized A/D-D/A capability sufficient to handle voice." They do. And I'm not so sure POTS is going to be where things will be the most interesting...cable modem telephony might be where things get interesting. As for the Telcos allowing a call to be terminated on their copper, they'll never let this happen without going through the 5ESS, and recent legislation means they probablyt won't have to let you use some higher frequency band either. I've heard of some P2P startups that leverage the discovery mechanisms in P2P networks in order to setup a SIP session for telephony. It's interesting to consider the possibility that, depending on the P2P system, it's conceivable that one could call another user without having any way to "trace" that call, or payment for that matter. So if bin Laden were feelin' lonely one day and signed onto the network, you could give him a call, without him worrying about the missles falling within a few minutes. -TD >From: Steve Schear <s.schear(a)comcast.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: RE: The killer app for encryption >Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:42:01 -0800 > >At 03:47 PM 12/18/2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: >>At 08:16 PM 12/18/03 +0000, Jim Dixon wrote: >> >> >What exactly do you mean by "peered IP telephony"? > >What I'd like to see is a P2P telephony that also supports end-user >gateways to the POTS. I'm not certain, but I think there are some MS >certified modems which have a generalized A/D-D/A capability sufficient to >handle voice. Although it opens up the possibility of end-user >eavesdropping some of this might be thwarted by randomizing user node >selection and detecting/reporting line impedance changes (indicating an >extension going off-hook) to the 'client' wising to use the POTS. I >suggested this idea to Jeff Pulver, now a VoIP champion, in 1999 but he >thought it was too out of the mainstream to be interesting. Now that P2P >is beginning to branch out from file sharing maybe this is no longer a far >out idea. > >steve _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com

1 0

Release Saddam now
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Saddam is being wrongly held by illegal invaders and occupiers. He should be immediately released or turned over to legitimate authorities, such as the international courts. Advocate for the release of Saddam Hussein, and the withdrawal of the USurpers. Pass the word. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]

3 6

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
by privacy.at Anonymous Remailer 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Greetings Has Saddam recieved a lawyer yet? Will Saddam be judged by a court having jurisdiction and being recognized internationally?

5 6