December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: PGP and Compliance with SEC and Liability Rules
by mark＠unicorn.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

tcmay(a)got.net wrote: > CMR and the Policy Management Agent can (and presumably will) be set to > scrutizine _all_ mail for "policy violations," outgoing as well as > incoming mail. The PGP page has some descriptions of their products. Hmm, I looked but couldn't find any real detail. If it can force encryption to a company key for outgoing mail as well, it's even worse than I thought. Mark

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Teaching Kids To Love Big Brother
by mark＠unicorn.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From the Infowar Web site: BRISBANE, Nov 2 AAP - Special computer software will stop Queensland school children accessing pornography on the Internet as schools are connected to the worldwide web over the next year, Education Minister Bob Quinn said today. [deletia] "Students will not be permitted to deviate down the many unsavoury side roads off the information superhighway," Mr Quinn said in a statement. "We don't want children exposed to pornography. We don't want them learning how to make bombs. We don't want them gambling in cyberspace and we don't want them wasting their valuable time on silly games and other pointless pursuits." [deletia] Attempts to access prohibited sites on school Internet terminals would trigger an automatic alarm monitored by Education Queensland's network administrators. Mr Quinn said e-mail would also be scrutinised and messages with prohibited words or phrases automatically directed to administrators. [deletia] The monitoring system would also monitor traffic patterns used by Queensland's 450,000 students and 30,000 teachers, he said. >>> END Shame about the export restrictions, or this would be a great market for PGP's new snoopware. Mark

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Re: ANNOUNCE: New Remailer - palnu@juno.com
by TruthMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Andy Dustman wrote: > > I've been pinging palnu for a day now, no response yet. Try looking at some dirty pictures while you do it... IPingMyOwnPalnuTooMonger

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Re: Why porn must be stopped at all costs, by Jodi Hoffman (fwd)
by Brandon Crosby 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > > Someone on this list, I forget who, has made numerous attempts at > > convincing us that pornography 'does no harm' to children. It is > > exactly at this point that I must draw a line. Studies have shown that > > an event which lasts even so much as three-tenths of a second, within > > five to ten minutes has produced a structural change in the brain. > > Exposure to porn causes actual brain damage, especially in a child. > > let me guess . . . scientology? it sounds to me as if you just despise > porn so much that you're seeing red, and hence . . . not seeing the > facts straight (or believing whatever you [want to] hear). > Take a young child to the mall. He or she sits on santa's lap. Does the brain change at this point? The simple fact that the brain has been altered in some way only proves that the child is concious. -Brandon Crosby

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by 94WD55P1211＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Libertaria in Cyberspace
by Jenaer Mixmaster Anonserver 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 A lot has been written about Libertaria in Cyberspace both before and after Timothy May wrote the paper by the same name. I wonder how such a Libertaria will form. For a truly free communications medium we must have strong cryptography. This is a given. Anonymity cannot be insured without strong cryptography and the freedom of remailers or similar mechanisms to operate unobstructed. Speech is never truly free unless it can be anonymous if the author so chooses. Who wants to espouse an opinion which will get them flogged, either figuratively or literally, by their neighbors, their government, or in some cases even their family? In my opinion, Mr. May is correct when he says that physical space is too small and too exposed to outside intervention. A floating oil tanker can be torpedoed, and a small island simply invaded. Libertaria cannot easily build a standing army without inviting intervention by world powers and being dubbed as terrorists or an organized gang. Yes, cyberspace does look much more promising. The amount of "space" in cyberspace is unbelievably large. The amount of data I can store on one gigabyte of hard drive is incredible by conventional standards. Data on one computer can be made accessible through a network to any number of other computers and it can further be distributed. And space is very cheap in cyberspace. A three gigabyte hard drive runs around two hundred U.S. dollars and that price is dropping all the time. A truly free communications medium must allow its users to be anonymous. Speech is never truly free unless it can be anonymous if the author so chooses. Who wants to espouse an opinion which will get them flogged, either figuratively or literally, by their neighbors, their government, or their own family? Who wants to die "under mysterious circumstances" or in an automobile "accident" on an empty road? That an opinion is unpopular does not make that opinion wrong or invalid. That an author does not want his "true name" attached to an opinion does not diminish the value of that opinion. In some cases an author simply does not want to attract attention regardless of whether such attention be positive or negative. Strong cryptography is necessary for anonymity and the secure exchange of information. A remailer system such as we have built is simply not secure without the aid of cryptography. No network connection is secure when the connection is visible to anyone who has the capability and curiosity to listen in. A disturbing trend on the Internet today is the opinion that "good users are known users" and that "good users have nothing to hide." This kind of idea is offered by the government of the United States as well as many users and system administrators. Such an opinion is detrimental to the free flow of ideas and information. The arguments that a "good users are known users" policy is necessary to curb "computer crime" and network abuse are invalid in my opinion. A great percentage of "computer crime" is simply due to lax security protocols in the first place. When somebody can go into a university and run a sniffer program to get hundreds of passwords the problem is not so much that the user is running the program as it is that the data is available to the user in the first place. When somebody can get a throw-away account and post 30,000 ads to USENET the problem is not so much the abuser as it is abusing the network as it is a fault in the system. When people post mindless drivel to a network the problem isn't so much the poster as it is that such drivel is read and ranked at the same level with more legitimate postings. The first case of somebody running a packet sniffer can be avoided very easily by using encrypted protocols and secure machines. If root permissions can not be easily obtained on a machine and they are necessary to install trojans one major avenue for our cracker is blocked. If all network traffic is encrypted the cracker's job becomes all but impossible. Sadly most people seem to send passwords and vital information in the clear and most machines do not have encrypted communications tools installed. The majority of TCP/IP traffic is cleartext. The second and third cases of network abuse and drivel propagation are avoidable by various common sense means. First, news servers can be altered to not propagate massively crossposted articles or articles which are virtually identical and posted to many different groups over a short time period. Second, readers of news can use reputation capital systems to eliminate the remainder of off-topic postings and mindless drivel. If I trust Bob's opinion and Bob says that a particular posting is rubbish nobody has been censored unless Bob becomes very powerful and misuses that power to censor opinions he doesn't like without anybody knowing. However even that sort of abuse can be avoided by people being able to retrieve what they aren't normally seeing to occasionally check. And the argument that encryption must be outlawed or the government must have access to decryption keys is rediculous. The law abiding citizens will be monitored while the real terrorists, child pornographers, and tax evaders will hide their data in sounds or pictures and use encryption anyway. Put simply, for Libertaria to truly thrive in Cyberspace many things need to occur: First, encrypted network layers must become easily available. Nobody sitting on a network backbone should be able to see what I am saying or what anybody is saying to me. Authentication should be included here as well. Second, traffic analysis must be made considerably harder if not thwarted totally. When I go to http://www.cypherpunks.to an outside observer should not be able to see that I was the one who filed this request by watching my TCP/IP traffic. A modification of CROWDS is perhaps appropriate here. Third, some form of true distributed and redundant data system must be created. Eternity servers as currently implemented accomplish this to a certain extent, but don't seem to quite reach the mark. Some form of truly redundant, distributed, and secure filesystem which spreads across many jurisdictions would be most appropriate, I think. There are many technical problems involved in this however. As with anything else, such a filesystem should be anonymous and should be very hard to shut down. Fourth, if indeed a programmer in the United States can use a crypto library available outside the United States without infringing on ITAR then programmers outside the United States should begin work on such a library. Such a library should include many different algorithms for authentication, encryption, and key exchange. This would allow programmers inside the United States to legally write software which employs these technologies. Fifth, existing news and mail readers on all major platforms need to be altered to support anonymous remailers, encryption, decryption, authentication, and key exchange. This should include, at minimum, Windows, the Macintosh, and UNIX variants. Perhaps a whole new set of network protocols is necessary even if a bit grandiose. Tim May is correct: Libertaria will thrive in cyberspace. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.0i Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNF+NoHXr/REbgWGuEQJbfgCfZ/j8KZIubDkBBFmiWmXCguZMCDgAn3/8 KrkCbQdmWDFXbv7KlXpETEOT =q4kv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGP 5.0i mQGiBDRfi98RBADnsCoIsCkfD6bgRKEubaP5qAyUmZRX4b7JXn9CIPUNMp+KWA7p QObKWOs+DQ4Rc4DISrCm3TSdtvBHIZ0PvXNd1Ry2mhtaZKA0T9JawWotmKJzP/q1 yFh+A0Cs7nUW09vbgg3r7p17hRtrLY2UicXT+trajZc62ZmbPO5uMw+cawCg/6g2 uRrNxBRtqy8rEYoJ+7o7mw8EANSHUM+mSmKwNoSHQR1NeCcs76TjHsHiXjGwXewg ECxg9aQrCRD4DrHMkoPOiEHuKbHZzMfIMrkjHn46s00Is64zEVXv1rPWO0iB4/fQ h5W9L/ncA+05ltBNSQSwGaUuHy7HSUPqgPxET6heSYUWakIPs7WRc/WFCmtVgp0P OUIMA/4oQs45VL1GZUv9Oh25DNY6ZHLYOsULj2d6IdyxM0H6sdC59x0nGk6Gx9bb 0+4xVy/P+ZHnsvR5I6P0fZeIfvv8uLiy/kR7xIm7atx/PQh65uoVrxIuBeqkrl+7 ece1uCQLJuhTTHqK2jEcu4FLkHIGBi3LKPp7pRosYQQm/c7Fk7QiVmlzaW9uYXJ5 IDxhbHQuYW5vbnltb3VzLm1lc3NhZ2VzPokASwQQEQIACwUCNF+L3wQLAwECAAoJ EHXr/REbgWGuxqkAn0gFBb+rkOXMJN7SaDQT/in9fmG9AKCBr078DSRLz0FQf/Ot lNu72aDtkrkCDQQ0X4vhEAgA9kJXtwh/CBdyorrWqULzBej5UxE5T7bxbrlLOCDa AadWoxTpj0BV89AHxstDqZSt90xkhkn4DIO9ZekX1KHTUPj1WV/cdlJPPT2N286Z 4VeSWc39uK50T8X8dryDxUcwYc58yWb/Ffm7/ZFexwGq01uejaClcjrUGvC/RgBY K+X0iP1YTknbzSC0neSRBzZrM2w4DUUdD3yIsxx8Wy2O9vPJI8BD8KVbGI2Ou1WM uF040zT9fBdXQ6MdGGzeMyEstSr/POGxKUAYEY18hKcKctaGxAMZyAcpesqVDNmW n6vQClCbAkbTCD1mpF1Bn5x8vYlLIhkmuquiXsNV6TILOwACAggAmKdYv7uXJ8Vf nqp57+feOEQJx0wfBr/dcDpMBy3FLarVlkZJd3J/HwjRY/Nz1fZpeZrH0Trp0IeV 5OL+HkZVBDbzOqcXZ/o8YrgfbwlMpnAPjzMncRdJ9txLZFrGg89YFCoSHbvvAZwU 0PT8KtgXPYkDhzfPqPHny9J7Wg0DpdUEJc7HR+0d5rxeQ0/9rAbBym4/Qc+jdk6T g54vlRDOucm9MeYui9VUyGo2bZmZCfC792eK3Vve8At2XFRPBCP3cGP8QagqkJR6 Tc/uFOPjV4OkUkMLMD6Svi5jZFn6k4bxpqbPfo8NCH9vkoOS10qLOIUeBZMyu6zK tE5RPuMe9okAPwMFGDRfi+F16/0RG4FhrhECJ6EAoKNzXAfSzHaMQby20kgWg8Pu pScWAKDJ/nas7KT03gs374nVb7nxwzgrkQ== =TMag -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Taxing Churches for their views? Bad idea. (fwd)
by Brandon Crosby 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > >More telling, she doesn't seem to have a problem using a religious (and > >therefore tax-exempt) organization to push a political agenda. Apparently > >that whole 'separation of church and state' thing only applies when it's > >convenient. > > > >If religions want to play politics, the least we can do is get them to pay > >for the privilege. I'd feel a certain guilty pleasure seeing some of those > >bottom-feeders taxed into penury. > > Nonsense. And a dangerous course. Yes. > One can decide to "tax churches" or to "not tax churches." I have no > particularly strong opinion on either option. > > But one must definitely _not_ base the decision to tax or not to tax on the > opinions expressed by a church! Agian, yes. > One cannot decide to tax the Catholic Church "into penury" because its > anti-abortion views have become politically incorrect in the last 30 years. > Nor can one decide to tax the tempes and synagogues of Judaism "into > penury" because they are centers of support for the Zionist Entity. 'Political Agenda' and free speech are two seperate things. Nowadays, free speech is constantly being challanged by racism, bias and such. People sue each other because they say something that makes someone feel bad. Churches lie at the center of free speech, being awarded for their views by tax exemption. Should 3M have tax exemptions because it gives people jobs? While I do not want a debate over tax exemptions in churches, 'Free Speech' may very well involve supporting canidates for positions in a democracy. This is the very basis for elections. However, one begins to question this reasoning when a church leader attempts to get into the government, using the church's tax exemptions, for either support of the church, support of self, or some illegal (or, at least, unethical) mix. Should churches be tax exempt? Without their long history of helping people, I doubt they would have any benifits. However, even if their privillige was removed, they would simply be able to donate less money to community causes. Uncle Sam (and his son, IRS) really shouldn't be applied to this subject: What is free speech? Is tax exemption justifiable to all types of [free] speech? -Brandon Crosby [Can you see the ghosts making snowmen?]

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Re: Sympatico Petition
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

john smith wrote: > > Please tell me everything Sympatico has done to make you think they > moniter your email. Everything please and i can make something of it. When I first saw your email re: Sympatico petition, I assumed that Sympatico would be monitoring activity surrounding the petition. I visted your web site on Oct 28 and surfed around. When I got to the petition-signing page, I decided not to sign, in order to see if those merely visiting the page were being monitored. I pretty much forgot about it until I got an email from Sympatico Admin which dealt with what appeared to be bogus concerns, and containing vague threats of loss of access. I checked out the headers on my past incoming and outgoing email and found changes in the way it was routed and dealt with--changes which started shortly after I visited your website. I confirmed the results of my traffic analysis on my own account by checking them against those of another Sympatico account whose records I have access to, and which is used as a 'control' because it is used only for very normal and boring communications by a very regular jane/joe. (The changes started late on Oct 28th, and I got the threat from Sympatico on Nov. 4th.) As well, my follow up communications with Sympatico Admin resulted in replies which contained further evidence that the claims they were making in regard for the reasons for their actions were askew. Sympatico is little more than a company that acts as a front for the Canadian Telecos, so that they can continue to operate what are basically monopolies, without appearing to do so. SaskTel charged outrageous connect charges of ~$5.00 an hour out in the boonies, as long as they could. When it became apparent that they couldn't get away with it for much longer, Sympatico appeared on the scene, as SaskTel's 'competition'. The two entered into a sweetheart deal which effectively allows Sympatico and SaskTel to operate a dual monopoly, by making it difficult for small operators in the boonies to get a cut of the action. You may have noticed that 'Sympatico Admin' is pretty much synonymous with the SaskNet Admin. Their bum-buddy relationship is covered by only a thin veil of pretension. SaskTel still manages to maintain a semi-monopoly in the big cities, but their real power comes in the boondocks, where the Sympatico deal allowing no toll-charges effectively cuts out the smaller providers who can only offer services to a handful of in-area customers. The bottom line is that there are advantages to the basic infrastrucure of the system being developed by a single entity, such as SaskTel, but if that entity is allowed to pick and choose who receives preferred treatment, then they tend to do so in their own interests, and not in the interests of the end users. SaskTel charged $5.00/hr connect time in the boonies until there were enough complaints that they made a deal with Sympatico to control the market at slightly less monopolistic rates. People tend not to figure out that the change from $5.00/hr to around $1.50/hr, practically overnight, merely reflects that SaskTel charged over twice what was reasonable, for as long as they could get away with it. I checked the numbers, in regard to bandwidth costs, etc., to hook up and provide an InterNet service, and found that the types of rates you quote on your website are not out of line, but are not possible if one cannot get the type of deal Sympatico gets. e.g. - I charge you $20/month for total access, but you pay $6.00/hr to SaskTel for long-distance charges, to connect. SaskTel/Sympatico will continue to maintain a monopoly whose prices will reflect how much they can charge before complaints force them to move toward more truly competitive rates. I applaud your efforts to make some noise in this regard, and hope that they have the effect of forcing SaskTel/Sympatico to maintain their monopoly at more reasonable rates than at present. I am somewhat notorious in certain areas of the underground computer movement, having been involved in the dissemination of a number of subversive on-line manuscripts, so I often get hackers and phreaks sending me confidential information from my ISP's. I found it rather humorous that the original email from the Sympatico Admin: > Please note: this note is being sent to our security dept. as we > deem this type of activity to be mis-use of the mail system and > as such you could loose your access privileges. ...contained an 'additional' note from a hacker named the Evil-1, who added: > [And I'll make sure you get a copy! (;>} ~~ Evil-1] Toto ~~~~ "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix "WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs" http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld "InfoWar" http://bureau42.base.org/public/infowar3 "The Final Frontier" http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn

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[news] TV station sets cybersex sting
by Vipul Ved Prakash 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** TV station sets cybersex sting With cyperporn and cybersex ranking as sensational news items on local TV stations, Fox's Los Angeles outlet has taken the trend a step further by ensnaring adult sexual predators. KTTV's Fox 11 News at 10 worked with a 21-year-old woman posing as a 14-year-old to conduct cybersting operations that led to the arrests of five men. KTTV used the unnamed woman as bait, having her enter online chat rooms where she was immediately targeted. The station filmed the online seductions as well as the arrests of the men, who included an attorney, a doctor, a retired Army officer and an investigator for the Dept. of Labor. See story at http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=5777644-464

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Re: Taxing Churches for their views? Bad idea. (fwd)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Brandon Crosby wrote: > While I do not want a debate over tax exemptions in churches, 'Free Speech' > may very well involve supporting canidates for positions in a democracy. > This is the very basis for elections. However, one begins to question this > reasoning when a church leader attempts to get into the government, using > the church's tax exemptions, for either support of the church, support of > self, or some illegal (or, at least, unethical) mix. The problem, as I see it, is that the laws regarding political donations and resulting political activity are different from the laws regarding church donations, thus leading to the Christian Right using the differences to bypassing the restrictions that are placed on organizations registered as political groups. If 'Joe's Whorehouse and Illegal Drug Emporium' were to engage in the same types of political activities that the 'We Wear Halos Church' did, they would be subject to arrest and imprisonment for a wide variety of violations of electoral law. Vote-Reality is that most politicians would no sooner oppose a totally unconstitutional law that promises to 'save the life of a single child', than they would promote the prosecution of the 'good guys' for doing 'bad things'. Churches hold the same favored 'good guy' status as policemen who violate the civil rights of 'bad' citizens. > Should churches be tax exempt? Without their long history of helping people, > I doubt they would have any benifits. However, even if their privillige was > removed, they would simply be able to donate less money to community causes. Churches, like governments, corporations, or any other organized entity, have some wonderful people in them, doing wonderful things. The problem, as always, is what our founding fathers realized--these types of organizations/structures tend to grow and attain power which is then used for the purpose of self-sustained growth (survival). Humanity tends to evolve, while organized humanity tends to de-volve. Biped humans, walking upright, form organizations which move toward becoming quadrapeds dragging large clubs. Most of the issues/problems discussed on the Cypherpunks list are often dealt with in terms of a combination of 'the way things are' vs. 'the way things should be' vs. 'the way things are becoming'. My view is that things have become so askew that any one of the above, or any of them in combination, are not adequate for dealing with what is to come in the near future. The statement of one of the founding fathers, in regard to needing a revolution every twenty years, or so, should be considered in the light of the history of 'forest fires.' Forest fires know that there should be a 'revolution every twenty years' but humans do not. In our foolish wisdom, we decide to intervene in the natural course of things, to 'make things better'. We then proceed to put the natural balance so far out of askew that, once we have 'saved' the forests by not allowing forest kindling to burn for a hundred years, the Forest Stock Market undergoes a major 'correction'. The structure of American government, electoral laws, charitable tax deductions, etc., are not inherently evil in themselves. The problem is that they have all been subject to interference with the basic underlying concepts, in efforts to improve them with a 'more is better' mentality, that they are all ripe for burning. ["Welfare (charity) has resulted in many positive benefits. Hey! I have a good idea! Let's put _everyone_ on welfare!] The structure of government/laws/society is very similar to that of the Internet, with everything being linked in ways that become increasingly complex once individual entities decide that things need to be done a 'certain way' in their own self-interest, instead of in the needs of the underlying infrastructure. The problems multiply as the number of entities deciding which 'certain' way is the 'right' way becomes smaller. "Spam is bad. _I_ am going to _save_ everyone from spam. Flames aren't so good, either. I'd better save you from 'flames' as well. What constitutes a flame? Well, it all begins with disagreement and, since I decide what is and is not a flame, I guess that a flame could be defined as disagreement with _me_!" ("In order to save the list from spam, we had to destroy the list.") Now that we are all aware of the disruptive manipulations of the Evil Dr. Vulis, perhaps he has changed his online persona to that of 'Jodi Hoffman'. (:>} NukeReality! ~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: [news] TV station sets cybersex sting
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Vipul Ved Prakash wrote: > > *** TV station sets cybersex sting > > With cyperporn and cybersex ranking as sensational news items on > local TV stations, Fox's Los Angeles outlet has taken the trend a > step further by ensnaring adult sexual predators. KTTV's Fox 11 News > at 10 worked with a 21-year-old woman posing as a 14-year-old to > conduct cybersting operations that led to the arrests of five men. > http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=5777644-464 And Fox is going to do a similar entrapment sting on Catholic priests, right?

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Springer/Gates Merger
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

CANADIAN NUTLY NEWS: [CNN, Bienfait, Saskatchewan] BAR OWNERS at the Coaldust Saloon, in violation of Canadian bartender/customer confidentiality laws, revealed details of a planned merger between Micro$oft and the Jerry Springer Show. Computer magnate Bill Gates has signed a secret deal with Jerry Springer to host a variety of WebTV productions which will be InterActive variations on the 'Terminal Man' theme. Springer, upset over the news media outcry over his proposed move toward bringing his Barnum & Baily act into the mainstream news forum, plans to take his revenge by using Micro$oft's domination in the lowest-common-denominator market to parlay his lack of good taste and journalistic ethics into a full-scale assasult on the elitest mainstream news media which continues to ignore the real desires of the general public. Philip R. Zimmerman, former head of PGP, Inc., announced his new position as Publicity Representative for 'New Reality Productions' by saying, "Daddy always told me, 'If you're going to sell out a little, you might as well sell out a lot--and make the BIG bucks.'" PRZ told gathered reporters that the increasing interest shown by television viewers in shows such as 'The World's Scariest Police Chases' threatened the growing popularity of the InterNet as the medium of the future. Zimmerman said, "The virtual reality of TV and the movies has always been a harbringer of the virtual future. The success of Terminal Man showed that the future was in snuff-flicks, and Police Chases was the natural movement of that theme into the trend toward Real TV." PRZ added, "The InterActive capabilities of the InterNet will allow the Gates/Springer merger to give the viewers the ability to get personally involved in the decisions as to who lives and who dies." New technologies which enable law enforcement agencies to activate kill-switches in fleeing automobiles have been abandoned in favor of technologies which allow the home viewer to use joysticks to control the movement of the criminal's vehicle and those of their police pursuers. Zimmerman defended the use of the new technology by saying, "Sure, snuff-flicks used to be illegal, but so did gambling and drinking. 'New Reality Productions' is just following the money." The beta-testing of the new technology took place on the CypherPunks mailing list, where list subscribers were given the opportunity to actively participate in the second 'moderation experiment' on the list by using their accumulated Moral Majority Reputation Credits to kill undesirable posts to the list. Chief CypherPunks Spokesperson, Jodi Hoffman, said that putting control of the list in the hands of the lowest common denominator had stemmed the "downward spiral" of the mailing list and that the Christian CypherPunks mailing list was a definite improvement over the original non-Christian-Jew infested CDR list. "Once we got rid of the Christkillers and the Commies," Hoffman proclaimed, "the list postings trickled down to two or three a day, but if it saves the life of just one child..."

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[Fwd: Horsemen] Horsemen
by TruthMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Taxing Churches for their views? Bad idea. (fwd)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Burnes wrote: > On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Anonymous wrote: > > Churches, like governments, corporations, or any other organized > > entity, have some wonderful people in them, doing wonderful things. > > The problem, as always, is what our founding fathers realized--these > > types of organizations/structures tend to grow and attain power which > > is then used for the purpose of self-sustained growth (survival). > > Humanity tends to evolve, while organized humanity tends to de-volve. > > Biped humans, walking upright, form organizations which move toward > > becoming quadrapeds dragging large clubs. > Ha! This is pretty interesting. Rather than the typical cypherpunk > approach of eliminating such inefficient and corrupting methods as > income taxation and tax exemption we are playing by their game. Taxation and exemptions are, conceptually, no different than a tribal agreement that those who bring home the deer will share with those who guard the campsite, and that the shaman who keeps the evil spirits at bay has to do neither. When one strips the semantics from various cypherpunks posts, there is usually an underlying agreement that there should be no 'free rides' and no 'oppressive burdens.' <-- generality> > The whole of HG Wells warning to society was that by systematically > altering the language, you alter the things that can be discussed. I believe that half of the disagreements on the cypherpunks list, and the vast majority of disagreements in the world in general, are the result of disputes over semantics, rather than beliefs. > rather than bitch and moan about how the Churches are exempt, why > not rejoice in the fact that at least the churches are free from > taxation. We are part of the way there. Revolutionary idea! Instead of calling for Churches to be subject to the same oppressive taxation as the rest of us, call for the rest of us to be given the same exemptions as Churches. I vote Jim Burnes the honorary title of 'CypherPunks Chief Taxation Spokesperson' (Norman Vincent Peale Chapter). > Or start your own church. ;-) I agree. TruthPastor "CypherPunks Church of One" (All donations declared by myself to be tax deductible--check with the authorities in *your* jail cell (*after* sending me money) as to their views in this regard.)

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Government goons force Goddard to recant
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Time to add a new horseman: "conspiracy theory-spreading libertarians" ... CNN logo [ISMAP]-Navigation Infoseek/Big Yellow Pathfinder/Warner Bros Barnes and Noble Main banner Weird guy. Cool phone. Click here. rule TWA missile theory co-author apologizes Salinger Says report was 'reckless' From Correspondent Christine Negroni November 5, 1997 Web posted at: 2:05 p.m. EST (1905 GMT) NEW YORK (CNN) -- Ian Goddard, co-author of a report that claimed the U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 800, has told CNN that those charges were "reckless and a mistake." In a written statement to CNN, Goddard apologized to "all those in the Navy I have wrongfully accused" and to "those who believed in my efforts and who are now upset with me for my change of mind." Goddard co-authored the report with former ABC news reporter Pierre Salinger and a third man, Mike Sommers. Ian Goddard's statement to CNN: "While many witness accounts remain a mystery to me, I believe that my effort to pin the crash of TWA 800 on the Navy was reckless and a mistake. I apologize to all those in the Navy I have wrongfully accused. I also apologize to those who believed in my efforts and who are now upset with me for my change of mind. "We all need to put our support behind the families of the victims of TWA 800. Many who died left children behind who now need your support... Please give." National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Goelz, on learning of the Goddard apology, said that Goddard had done real damage, particularly to the victims' families, by promoting charges that the Navy's "friendly fire" caused the July 1996 crash. "He has caused innumerable people great agony," Goelz said, adding that both the FBI and the NTSB had to spend time responding to what were basically groundless accusations. Joe Lychner of Houston, who lost his wife and two daughters in the crash, told CNN that Goddard and Salinger owe an explanation to the American public. The so-called Salinger report laid out an elaborate conspiracy theory that alleged a huge government cover-up following the TWA crash. Goddard had kept the theory alive on a Web site he created, which now appears to have been discontinued. "I just wanted to give the government a black eye by any means that looked opportune. TWA 800 was just a vehicle for my larger agenda."  Ian Goddard Goddard has recently E-mailed associates about his report. In those messages, Goddard called his support of the conspiracy theory "a big mistake," and said he only pursued the charges because he "wanted to give the government a black eye by any means that looked opportune." Goddard says he wanted to promote libertarian ideology by encouraging distrust of the government. CNN's Christine Negroni reports on the admission: icon 2 min. 30 sec. VXtreme video When contacted by CNN about Goddard's statement, Salinger said that he is moving on from his investigation into the TWA crash, although he did not retract any of his charges that a Navy missile brought down the 747. Salinger called FBI Deputy Director James Kallstrom last week and told him that he was giving up his probe. In his statement to CNN, Goddard asked that the public support the families of the victims of TWA 800 and that donations be made to the Flight 800 Family Relief Fund. TWA Flight 800 crashed off Long Island, killing all 230 people on board. The FBI and NTSB have not yet named an official cause of the accident. ______________________________________________________________ © 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy
by John Kelsey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks ## Date: 11/03/97 ## Subject: Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy ] >Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:26:03 -0700 >To: "John Kelsey" <kelsey(a)plnet.net>, > "cypherpunks" <cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM> >From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> >Subject: Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy >Such insurance is now common. A boat owner doesn't buy >insurance for iceberg collisions if he is never in arctic >waters, a small plane pilot doesn't buy cargo insurance if >he doesn't ferry cargo, and so on. Yes, I understand this. Nobody with a grain of sense insures himself for things he knows will never happen. >>the point of having insurance, which is to protect yourself >>from low probability high cost things happening. That is, >I have a different view of what insurance is than John does. >What insurance is, and how it is priced, is too long a topic >to get into here. Suffice it to say that the insurance >company makes its profits by charging more for coverage than >it pays out. And the customer, of course, tends to lose the >differential. An insurance broker and a bookie are in the same business. A bookie takes a bet from me, at 1000 to 1 odds, for some unlikely to occur event--which he thinks has a probability of less than 1/1000. An insurance broker does the same thing. The only important difference is my purpose in placing the bet. When I take out medical insurance, I am placing a bet that I will get sick enough to spend more than my deductable on doctors. The insurance broker estimates (based on whatever information is available) the probability that this will happen, and makes me a bet at odds that are in his favor, if his estimate is true. If I get sick, I get some money (or my doctors do). If I stay well, I lose the bet. This is just paying someone to take some risk off my hands. >Each side tries to get as much information as possible. If >Joe Client knows he never pilots a cargo plane, he doesn't >opt for cargo insurance. If Joe Client knows he never >engages in unprotected sex with diseasy prostitutes, etc., >he skips HIV insurance. The fact that some "low probability >events," like meteor strikes, are uncovered is part of the >price of keeping Joe's premiums tolerable. >>before I've taken the test for genetic disease X, my best >>estimate of the probability that I will test positive is >>very low. Once I have taken it, I know the result. If I >>sign up for a-la-carte insurance for this disease, the >>insurance company effectively knows I must have tested >>positive for a predisposition to it, and so either won't >>give me insurance, or will give me insurance only at an >>extremely high rate (corresponding to a 1/10 chance of >>getting the disease, rather than a 1/1,000,000 chance). >This is the idea. It causes those with the predilections to >the disease to pay the high coverage costs. Right. I don't think I expressed my point too clearly, because you seem to have responded to something different than what I was saying. Suppose there is some genetic disease that kills its victims on their 31st birthday, unless they get a $1,000,000 treatment first. Before I have taken the test for this disease, I have to accept a certain risk--if I find out I have the disease, I have to raise a million dollars in the next few months. After I have taken the test and gotten back the results, there's no more risk involved (assuming the test is perfect)--I either have the disease or I don't. After the test, insurance isn't useful (unless I defraud my insurer). Before the test, though, insurance might be useful--I could essentially place a bet with someone that I had the disease--I pay $1, and get a million dollars back if my test comes back positive--just enough to pay for my treatment. >The alternative is not pretty: banning private testing >(how?) and forcing insurance companies to cover all >applicants for all conditions at a fixed rate. I know. Let me make it clear that I am not at all interested in banning private testing, coercing insurance companies or anyone else into agreements they don't want to make, etc. I am saying it would be nice if I could buy insurance against the results of the tests before I took them. The problem is, I can't see a really workable way to do this, because there's no way to keep people from taking the test beforehand. >--Tim May --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNGDdikHx57Ag8goBAQE6/AP/Yub9LA0b1rvivDeiHW9tHtV7b/n4jmUA aP50hPFTCn7EEMsoKdC2pUv0eq5F+s8AmKyaE+SmxTgBbalrvm+T+lPib4bbEXjH iI9nHbnfzTSxiVbkVHp0p0/0urIgokTcrFBWbfIEnmOnGvI7OHI+KcPjqr3JBQeo A53+dL0NBRQ= =kx2R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36

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Re: Copyright commerce and the street musician protocol
by John Kelsey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks, Perry's Crypto List ## Date: 11/03/97 ## Subject: Re: Copyright commerce and the street musician protocol ] >Subject: Re: Copyright commerce and the street musician protocol >From: Marc Horowitz <marc(a)cygnus.com> >Date: 03 Nov 1997 16:03:34 -0500 >Someone recently told me that game manufacturers have >stopped worrying about piracy. Why? Because most new games >come on CD-ROM, and copying a CD-ROM is an expensive, >time-consuming operation. Bulk duplication of CD's is >substantially cheaper than one-off duplication, and since >games are cheap, people will usually buy them rather than >copy them. This is a nice situation for CD-ROM-based video games. However, it's probably a temporary situation. Currently, downloading a novel, even over modem lines, isn't all that time-consuming. If available bandwidth and storage capacity keeps getting cheaper, the same will soon be true for digital audio, and later, for digital video. The number of bits required to hold a twenty-minute piece of music at CD quality isn't going to increase over time. >While the cost of one-off CD duplication will certainly >drop, I see no reason that media will not change form in the >future. As long as it's cheaper or more convenient to buy >digital media from the publisher than to copy it yourself, >the piracy problem basically doesn't exist. Separate the medium from the information. For computer programs, it's possible to just keep bloating the data to keep piracy from paying. (To some extent, anyway.) For novels, music, and video, that's not going to work. The unit of music I'm interested in listening to will probably not change much. >This is exactly >what makes copyright work for books: I can duplicate a book, >but it will cost more than buying it legitimately. (There >is still the problem of systematic large-scale piracy, but >this is relatively easy to notice and prosecute under >existing law.) But once someone has scanned in the text from the book, it costs approximately nothing to make another copy. This works as well for digitized music, video, and images. Once the data is available somewhere in digital form, it's almost free to copy. In a world with jurisdiction-shopping, eternity servers, high-quality anonymous e-mail, anonymous payment mechanisms, and cheap, high-bandwidth connections, that digital data has to get onto the net *once*, and it is free forever to anyon who will take the trouble to find it. For books, one reason this doesn't happen more often now is that the display technology for most computers is not nearly as easy to read as even cheaply-printed paperbacks. This is sure to change with time. Widespread use of DVDs will get rid of the advantages of CDs and cassettes for listening to music. >Short works (newspapers, magazines, journals, etc.) will >need a different mechanism, such as advertising, but that >infrastructure is creating itself today. It's essentially the same problem for text works. A text work you can't fit on one CD with compression is unlikely to be something you can get many people to read all the way through. (The exception is reference material, where you want *everything* of interest to be there, even though you will surely read only a tiny fraction of the material.) The real distinction here is timeliness. If some information is only valuable when it's timely, then it's probably going to make sense to get the information from its source, even if it costs money or you have to look at some ads. If the information is valuable weeks later, then it may be hard to charge much money for access to it. > Marc --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNGDdkUHx57Ag8goBAQH0TwP/ZKJMdO1klPSI0W/UWxzX3B+2sWGp2lUT JAkSrHC6ha3JAq+NECF2Cwmf8wuu+mmdyy6laFTljGJ9uuxnfrZZ4QfJAR0S0KbM 8swifaqDkryQtu3dpJOzDV8Kc7B7QYiF3HyiW0NYDHI+VwO9hgFAq/+XkQA5Yhb8 erGdU+e5cwQ= =uFfo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36

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Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy
by John Kelsey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks ## Date: 11/05/97 ## Subject: Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy ] >Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:05:16 -0700 >From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> >Subject: Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy >What an insurance card is really a *line of credit*. Or a >*proof of payment*. The admitting hospital knows they'll at >least be reimbursed for the initial visit and emergency >treatment. >Perhaps there's a business idea for some enterprising >Cypherpunk. A prepaid hospital card, good for a few days' >worth of treatment (e.g., $5000), but only at the better >rates. This could even be done with Chaumian >privacy-protecting methods. There's an idea. This seems straightforward enough in principle. It's just like a prepaid credit card, or even a normal credit card, right? I mean, what it says on the card is probably different, but the financial arrangements are pretty-much the same. I suspect it would be easier to implement this (at least in the US) as an extra function on a credit card, rather than as a new kind of insurance, since there are so many odd insurance regulations out there. Currently, lots of credit cards offer special benefits like automatic insurance on rental cars--this seems like a close variation on the same idea. >--Tim May -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNGDdm0Hx57Ag8goBAQF32wQAt995HVMQafsP+vDB3YdixDghNvS0LABE Qy1a1Cy+Gzzlsox4c6NnoOXB2ETWANtTknw3gn/KiNVFxSmSDqihvhmeAiZ8BQ2N pKIY9me/NPHKTSsPzYAA4gi3jrAFF58qIky9BATcneJLos1qpw3P8TlTZF+MmXU/ 0TZl6llN+4U= =SDLk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36

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SSL Browser info
by Gary Howland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, You may be interested to know that I've set up a web page at http://www.hotlava.com/demos/ssl-query.html which displays the SSL version and cipher types of your browser. Gary -- pub 1024/C001D00D 1996/01/22 Gary Howland <gary(a)hotlava.com> Key fingerprint = 0C FB 60 61 4D 3B 24 7D 1C 89 1D BE 1F EE 09 06

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Crypto in Videoconferencing?
by Jim Burnes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

anyone: is anyone aware of a videoconferencing system that supports strong crypto -- or any type of crypto for that matter? jim burnes ----- Jim Burnes Security Software Engineer, SSDS Inc. Denver, CO Remove the n-o-s-p-a-m. from my email to respond -----

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church of crypto anarchy (Re: Taxing Churches for their views? Bad idea. (fwd)) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:25:02 GMT > From: Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> > Subject: church of crypto anarchy (Re: Taxing Churches for their views? Bad idea. (fwd)) > Seems to me that the distinction that churches are exempt from taxes > partly hinges on their non-profit, or not-for-profit status. No, it stems from the fundamental democratic axiom of seperation of church and state. If the churches pay taxes they aren't seperate. If the state supports churches they aren't seperate. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Home Buisness Opportunity
by billy＠bingo.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Subj: Are you getting loads of $5 orders in your mailbox everyday? I am!! Date: 97-10-19 21:33:41 EDT From: 80285881(a)prodigy.com To: You(a)aol.com I Never Thought I'd Be the One Telling You This: I Actually Read a Piece of E-Mail & I'm Going to Europe on the Proceeds! Hello! My name is Karen Liddell; I'm a 35-year-old mom, wife, and part-time accountant. As a rule, I delete all unsolicited "junk" e-mail and use my account primarily for business. I received what I assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted it each time. About two months ago I received it again and, because of the catchy subject line, I finally read it. Afterwards, I thought , "OK, I give in, I'm going to try this. I can certainly afford to invest $20 and, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with creating a little excess cash." I promptly mailed four $5 bills and, after receiving the reports, paid a friend of mine a small fee to send out some e-mail advertisements for me. After reading the reports, I also learned how easy it is to bulk e-mail for free! I was not prepared for the results. Everyday for the last six weeks, my P.O. box has been overflowing with $5 bills; many days the excess fills up an extra mail bin and I've had to upgrade to the corporate-size box! I am stunned by all the money that keeps rolling in! My husband and I have been saving for several years to make a substantial downpayment on a house. Now, not only are we purchasing a house with 40% down, we're going to Venice, Italy to celebrate! I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much money as we did. You don't need to be a wiz at the computer, but I'll bet you already are. If you can open an envelope, remove the money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank. Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is. If I can do this, so can you! The following is a copy of the e-mail I read: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!! You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash. This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income. This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank! This truly is the lucky break you've been waiting for! Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly, this multi-level marketing program works perfectly..100% EVERY TIME! Thousands of people have used this program to: - Raise capital to start their own business - Pay off debts - Buy homes, cars, etc. This is your chance, don't pass it up! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is what you will do to reach financial freedom: You will send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, you will increase your business building your downline and selling the products (reports). Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer). The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include: * $5.00 cash * The name and number of the report they are ordering * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered. To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. THAT'S IT! The $5.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST multi-level marketing business anywhere! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS! ******* I N S T R U C T I O N S ******* This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below. * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. * When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four reports. You will need all four reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. * Usually within 10 days you will receive, via e-mail, the four reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the four reports, take this advertisement and remove the name and address under REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their 50 grand! c. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. f. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. 4. Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the WORLDWIDE WEB! Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists. You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. 5. For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! ------------------------------------------ AVAILABLE REPORTS ------------------------------------------ ***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** Notes: - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT (checks not accepted) - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address. It is suggested that you rent a mailbox addressed to an assumed "company" name to avoid your name and home address being sent to millions of people. For an example, see the "company" names listed below. __________________________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: MF Group, Inc. 3550 Centerville HWY Suite 107-145 Lithonia, Ga 30058 __________________________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: The SRF Enterprises 4117 Jami Lane Lithonia, Ga 30058 __________________________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: FML P.O. Box 927603 San Diego, Ca 92192-0603 __________________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Marico 2350 Spring Road #30-194 Smyrna, GA 30080 __________________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 10 members with $5...........................................$50 2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500 3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000 4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000 THIS TOTALS ----------->$55,550 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE! *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received." * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! *******T E S T I M O N I A L S******* This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM. Frank T., Bel-Air, MD The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in. Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq. Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return. Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending! Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!! For 52,000,000 E-mail addressess visit our website at: http://www.edgetone.com/industry2/resellers/resell553.html

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Forwarded mail...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 97 07:47 MET > From: Jenaer Mixmaster Anonserver <mixmaster(a)as-node.jena.thur.de> > Subject: Libertaria in Cyberspace > For a truly free communications medium we must have strong cryptography. Seems to me that this is false. To have a truly free communcations medium we must have no censors. The very fact that crypto is involved guarantees that it isn't free. The use of crypto itself is a form of censorship if you don't have the key. > This is a given. No, it isn't. > Anonymity cannot be insured without strong cryptography Tell that to publius. 200+ years later and we still fight over who wrote what and they didn't even use a simple substitution cypher. The secret to anonymity is the same as keeping a secret, those who know keep their mouths shut. > and the freedom of remailers or similar mechanisms to operate > unobstructed. How is crypto going to keep them from kicking the turning the phones off, turning the power off, and kicking the front door in? It isn't. > Speech is never truly free unless it can be anonymous if > the author so chooses. Speech can't be truly free as long as any party can censor the traffic. > Who wants to espouse an opinion which will get > them flogged, either figuratively or literally, by their neighbors, their > government, or in some cases even their family? Then be so kind as to explain people who are intentionaly trying to force legal cases in order to challenge standards? This is a clear 1-to-1 mapping to flogging (per your example). > In my opinion, Mr. May is correct when he says that physical space is too > small and too exposed to outside intervention. Unfortunately cyberspace can't exist without meatspace. > Yes, cyberspace does look much more promising. Only if you don't have a clue as to the technical, social and economic milieu that it exists within. Show me a way to run a remailer program without a computer which exists in meatspace and your proposition might work. > The amount of "space" in > cyberspace is unbelievably large. You have a small imagination. The amount of space in cyberspace in no more than the sum total of all the hard drives in use on the network or network accessible at any given time. It's measured in terabytes but that is hardly unbelievable. > The amount of data I can store on one > gigabyte of hard drive is incredible by conventional standards. Your standards are pretty low when one considers that the largest databases on the planet are measured in terabytes (1,000 gig's). > And space is very cheap > in cyberspace. Really? Then please be so kind as to pay my monthy bills related to Internet access. I assure you they are far from 'cheap'. > A truly free communications medium must allow its users to be anonymous. No, it must provide no moderation on traffic. All anonymous access buys one is reasonable deniability, a far cry from free communcations; and in fact fundamentaly unrelated to the concept of free speech. > That an opinion is unpopular does not make that opinion wrong or invalid. Doesn't make it correct either, the proof is in the pudding. > That an author does not want his "true name" attached to an opinion does > not diminish the value of that opinion. In fact the validity of a thesis should in no way ever rest on the personality or reputation capital, it should rest solely on what can be proven and tested about it. [other stuff deleted] > Tim May is correct: Libertaria will thrive in cyberspace. Only in your collective wet dreams. Libertaria as described by Tim, yourself, and others will never come to pass in that form. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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IRS reform bill going strong [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > IRS Reform Bill Skates Through House > > [INLINE] > > WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, Nov. 5) -- A bill to reform the Internal > Revenue Service skated through the House of Representatives today on > an overwhelming 426-4 vote. > > The measure picked up the support of Democrats after its sponsors made > key changes that drew the approval of the Clinton Administration. > > The most significant change would preserve the president's power to > appoint the IRS commissioner. The original version of the bill would > have transferred that duty to an independent board. > > The bill's centerpiece is an 11-member board made up mostly of private > citizens that would oversee the IRS and help manage its long-term > projects. > > Bill sponsor Rob Portman (R-Ohio) said the measure marked "the first > time in 45 years that we have attempted as a Congress to enact > fundamental reform."

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Re: [news] TV station sets cybersex sting
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>*** TV station sets cybersex sting >With cyperporn and cybersex ranking as sensational news items on >local TV stations, Fox's Los Angeles outlet has taken the trend a >step further by ensnaring adult sexual predators. KTTV's Fox 11 News >at 10 worked with a 21-year-old woman posing as a 14-year-old to >conduct cybersting operations that led to the arrests of five men. >KTTV used the unnamed woman as bait, having her enter online chat >rooms where she was immediately targeted. The station filmed the >online seductions as well as the arrests of the men, who included an >attorney, a doctor, a retired Army officer and an investigator for >the Dept. of Labor. See story at >http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=5777644-464 And then they tricked a real 14 year old girl into meeting with them and having sex so that maybe, if they really, really tried very hard, they could argue that a real crime had been committed, right? Didn't think so.

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